[NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format

J Shu jshulman at cfl.rr.com
Fri Jul 31 04:45:32 AKDT 2009


Me too... Only thing I learn the day before is how to judge. Rather weigh and process than judge (gets confusing when I watch 40 
Masters routines then try and fly mine...lol).

Regards,
Jason
www.shulmanaviation.com
www.composite-arf.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format


> Agreed.  This is no different than attending the pilots meeting.  Check in, weigh in, etc.  I would argue you could get one or two 
> people willing to facilitate and monitor it in exchange for their judging duties (I would be one! )
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:01 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format
>
> I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part of
> what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that bad.
> Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane.
>
> Arch
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of
>> checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job.
>> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day
>> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup
>> airplanes) when they could be out practicing.
>>
>> Ron VP
>> .
>> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:
>>
>>> Mike,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for responding.  The board discussed a lot of these ideas
>>> the week after the Nats and we’ve been working on a list of stuff
>>> that we’re going to ask Dave to implement next year.  Pretty much
>>> what you’ve outlined below is in that list with some variations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We’re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that c
>>> ompete – everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check
>>> -in – each plane will be “stickered” as they qualify and if
>>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they’ll have the whole da
>>> y on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighe
>>> d and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) be
>>> fore they’ll be allowed to fly.  Random weight checks will also be
>>>  made throughout the event (random process to be determined later).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Derek
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-
>>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison
>>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM
>>> To: 'General pattern discussion'
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net]
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM
>>> To: 'Don Ramsey'
>>> Subject: nats format
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my
>>> views of the nats and the classes flown.  I believe we have been
>>> very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work
>>> and sacrifice to make the nats happen.  That group is led by the
>>> event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and
>>> unselfishly for years at this job.  I believe he has responded to
>>> our desires to make this the best national event possible.  With
>>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that
>>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> They are:
>>>
>>> 1.       Have a finals for advanced
>>>
>>> a.       8 finalists
>>>
>>> b.      3 rounds
>>>
>>> c.       Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified
>>> volunteers)
>>>
>>> d.      The site is open so it is not a space issue
>>>
>>> e.      24 flights would take app 3 hours
>>>
>>> f.        Do on 4th day
>>>
>>> g.       Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score
>>>
>>> h.      Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner
>>>
>>> 2.       Modify masters accordingly
>>>
>>> a.       3 round finals
>>>
>>> b.      Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score
>>>
>>> c.       Count 3 of 4 for the winner
>>>
>>> d.      10 finalists
>>>
>>> e.      30 flights about 5.5 hours
>>>
>>> 3.       Fai
>>>
>>> a.       3 rounds final
>>>
>>> b.      F-11 flown 1 time
>>>
>>> c.       Each unknown(1&2) flown once
>>>
>>> d.      Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000
>>> normalized score
>>>
>>> e.      Count 3 of 4 for the winner
>>>
>>> f.        10 finalists
>>>
>>> g.       30 flights about 5.5 hours
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rationale behind changes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Advanced
>>>
>>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced
>>> class.  It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for
>>> them.  This format is totally self contained with no additional
>>> personnel required.  It could be started and finished before the
>>> masters and fai is done.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Masters
>>>
>>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.  How many times
>>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best
>>> in that class.  The present system is 10 times!  The only argument
>>> is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.   The system I
>>> propose addresses that issue and takes less time.  I raised the
>>> number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is
>>> cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.  Counting the
>>> prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score
>>> to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number
>>> of variables.  Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure,
>>> etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.  Any 3
>>> flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FAI
>>>
>>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event
>>> in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and
>>> the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over
>>> the course of doing the semifinals.  This rationale wouldn’t apply
>>>  at the nats.  The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 2
>>> 0 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.  Ther
>>> efore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over
>>>  into the finals event.  The finals then becomes a single F patter
>>> n and 2 unknowns.  Count 3 of 4 scores.   I would recommend doing
>>> the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.  I believe all the othe
>>> r pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the
>>>  best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To conclude:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone.  We would add finals to
>>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the
>>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals;
>>> fewer personnel to do the finals.
>>>
>>> There is no perfect system.  I am sure there will be objections of
>>> some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be
>>> implemented.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Respectfully
>>>
>>> Mike Harrison
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
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