[NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format

Thu Jul 30 17:41:39 AKDT 2009

Here is one intermediate pilot that votes to have finals on Friday for
intermediate and advanced.  This year was my first NATS and I would be
surprised if anyone said they were overwhelmed.  I finished 12 out of 22
and my thought was that the announcement of the winners for intermediate
and advanced was a bit uneventful because it was announced on Thurs
afternoon and most people were gone when the awards were given out.  I
think it would be real neat to give out all awards at the banquet on
Friday or Sat evening.

Ron Hansen

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood,
Mark
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format

Excellent idea.

Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming
they're overwhelmed.  There are as many destination Intermediate pilots
as there are Masters.  They're not all beginners and would appreciate
some respect for their level of accomplishment.

Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots.
They're finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI.    We need to
celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally.  We all know  the top
dogs are the FAI finalists. but that shouldn't diminish the
accomplishment of the lower class victors.

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John
Konneker
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM
To: Discussion List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format

Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they
feel about a finals being added?
JLK

  _____  

From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format
I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and
coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking
it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should
be more than enough for these newcomers.  

The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate
pilots as well.  They can give out the trophies and prizes for these
pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can
celebrate at this time.  The finalists for the next day can be announced
also. 

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s
harrison
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format

From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM
To: 'Don Ramsey'
Subject: nats format

After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my
views of the nats and the classes flown.  I believe we have been very
fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and
sacrifice to make the nats happen.  That group is led by the event
director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for
years at this job.  I believe he has responded to our desires to make
this the best national event possible.  With that in mind, there are
some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone
and reduce the workload as well. 

They are:
1.      Have a finals for advanced
a.      8 finalists
b.      3 rounds
c.      Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers)
d.      The site is open so it is not a space issue
e.      24 flights would take app 3 hours
f.       Do on 4th day
g.      Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score
h.      Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner
2.      Modify masters accordingly
a.      3 round finals
b.      Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score
c.      Count 3 of 4 for the winner
d.      10 finalists
e.      30 flights about 5.5 hours
3.      Fai
a.      3 rounds final
b.      F-11 flown 1 time
c.      Each unknown(1&2) flown once
d.      Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000
normalized score
e.      Count 3 of 4 for the winner
f.       10 finalists
g.      30 flights about 5.5 hours

Rationale behind changes:

Advanced 
This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced
class.  It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.
This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel
required.  It could be started and finished before the masters and fai
is done.  

Masters 
Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.  How many times does
someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that
class.  The present system is 10 times!  The only argument is the equal
exposure issue-which may have merit.   The system I propose addresses
that issue and takes less time.  I raised the number of finalists to 10
to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of
unequal exposure.  Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my
opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3
days under a number of variables.  Assuming incorrect scoring(bias,
unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that
concern.  Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.  

FAI
The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in
the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool
is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of
doing the semifinals.  This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats.  The
semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the
prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.  Therefore, the 2 F patterns
can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.  The
finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.  Count 3 of 4
scores.   I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2
unknowns.  I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown
finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a
showcase event.  

To conclude:

I believe this is a win-win for everyone.  We would add finals to
advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best
pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer
personnel to do the finals.  
There is no perfect system.  I am sure there will be objections of some
kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be
implemented. 

Respectfully
Mike Harrison
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