[NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

Tue Jul 28 19:44:00 AKDT 2009

A friend of mine had a similar sounding experience.  His 35% Edge hit a buzzard with the landing gear, the buzzard fell about 100ft like it was dead, then opened his wings and flew away.  Feathers were missing from one wing.

Only damage to the plane was a cracked wheel pant.

--- On Tue, 7/28/09, Verne Koester <verne at twmi.rr.com> wrote:

From: Verne Koester <verne at twmi.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:50 PM

Not sure. The guy that told me I hit him said he dropped down about 100 ft and then opened up his wings. He said one of the wings looked pretty gimpy. I was busy landing my plane to assess the damage which I later repaired. Still have the plane. At the time, someone asked me about the turkey buzzard and I said “I hope his buddies eat him”…..

Verne

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young
Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:33 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

did that buzzard survive......

From: Verne Koester <verne at twmi.rr.com>
To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I’ve had nine mid-airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. Contests are the only time I’ll even fly with another plane in the air and that’s only if it’s an actual scored round. A few mid-airs will do that to ya.

Verne

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

Hi Verne,

You are correct.  I had a collision two years ago at the Nats.  I was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get me time to be ready.  The main problem for the pilot after this event is that we pay more attention to the other plane.  It is very hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation.  It is practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance.  

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

----- Original Message -----
From: "Verne Koester" <verne at twmi.rr.com>
To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
>From the AMA Rulebook:

10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD.

Hope this helps though it’s little comfort when put to use,
Verne Koester

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

Bill,

That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG

Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :(

My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL

John Pavlick

--- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford <astafford at swtexas.net> wrote:

From: Archie Stafford <astafford at swtexas.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks
To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM

This is not a rule in pattern.  There is virtually no way to be certain of
an oncoming mid-air.  If you are flying your plane then you really aren't
going to be able to see the other plane either.  I've seen some that looked
very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when
they didn't look that close.  

In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen
people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually
turn directly into the path of the other plane.  Had they just stayed on
their line they would've been fine.  I think you are much better off, just
flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens
unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is
virtually impossible.

Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air.  Trying avoid
them usually causes more problems than it solves.

Arch

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks

I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is 
mentioned.

Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is 
downgraded for doing so?

We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot 
avoid a mid-air without penalty?

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