From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 04:25:21 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:25:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Your Meet the Baby invite! In-Reply-To: <620760.4863.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <620760.4863.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <165501.3358.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> A Nats baby ;-) Congrats. ________________________________ From: Troy Newman To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:18:25 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Your Meet the Baby invite! I tried to get everybody but my email list is pretty scattered.Huge amount of undeliverable and too many recipients?. So I figured I would post here. ? We have the new pattern flyer in the group. Please go check it out. Alex and Jenny are both doing well. We had some struggles over the past weekend but things are going great now. ? Just got home today. Click on the button below to meet ?Alex ? Thanks for everybody?s prayers, we have received such great support from our pattern family. Thank you ? Troy From:Our365 [mailto:our365 at our365mail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:10 AM To: Troy Newman Subject: Your Meet the Baby invite! ? INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE NEW PARENTS: Forward this e-mail to friends and family so they can see your baby's Newborn Portrait and sign your Guest Book. Before forwarding, you can delete this section of the e-mail. This e-mail may contain a Visitor Password. If you've changed yours or created a new one, please enter it below. ? ? Here's your Visitor Password: 06431270332403 You might also be asked to enter the first four letters of Mom's last name. (Parents can change their Visitor Password; contact this baby's parents if you can't log in.) ? ? ? ? ? Our365.com: Life's more fun when you share it! We're committed to respecting your privacy. Here's our privacy policy and where to contact customer service if you need us. Our365 | 3613 Mueller Road | St. Charles, MO 63301 Please note: This email is automated, please do not reply to this message. Copyright ? 2009 Our365, Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 04:44:36 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:44:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Your Meet the Baby invite! Message-ID: <223061.34778.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ?Have fun with?the huge change in your life?Troy.?Kids are?a gift from God. Mike --- On Wed, 7/1/09, brian young wrote: From: brian young Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Your Meet the Baby invite! To: "Jim Quinn" , "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 7:25 AM A Nats baby ;-) ? Congrats. From: Troy Newman To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:18:25 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Your Meet the Baby invite! I tried to get everybody but my email list is pretty scattered. Huge amount of undeliverable and too many recipients?. So I figured I would post here. ? We have the new pattern flyer in the group. Please go check it out. Alex and Jenny are both doing well. We had some struggles over the past weekend but things are going great now. ? Just got home today. Click on the button below to meet ?Alex ? Thanks for everybody?s prayers, we have received such great support from our pattern family. Thank you ? Troy From: Our365 [mailto:our365 at our365mail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:10 AM To: Troy Newman Subject: Your Meet the Baby invite! ? INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE NEW PARENTS: Forward this e-mail to friends and family so they can see your baby's Newborn Portrait and sign your Guest Book. Before forwarding, you can delete this section of the e-mail. This e-mail may contain a Visitor Password. If you've changed yours or created a new one, please enter it below. ? ? Here's your Visitor Password: 06431270332403 You might also be asked to enter the first four letters of Mom's last name. (Parents can change their Visitor Password; contact this baby's parents if you can't log in.) ? ? ? ? ? Our365.com: Life's more fun when you share it! We're committed to respecting your privacy. Here's our privacy policy and where to contact customer service if you need us. Our365 | 3613 Mueller Road | St. Charles, MO 63301 Please note: This email is automated, please do not reply to this message. Copyright ? 2009 Our365, Inc. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 08:33:59 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:33:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. In-Reply-To: <20090626232614.1FC13115A4@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <20090626232614.1FC13115A4@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <758747.39909.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Just a followup on this and IOTA as a pseudo pattern supplier. I left them an Email and they said whats your address we will ship you a new one return the old one in a box, that was nice. Brian ________________________________ From: Brian To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:22:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Has anyone had any problems with these? Mine when drawing from 2 chargers and only 19 amps or so on the supply output, drops output voltage to 12-11.9 vdc. My chargers dont like this. Curious what might be going on with it. Tks Brian ________________________________ From: Richard Strickland Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:21 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Looks suspiciously like the Honda in many details...hmmm. You can probably get an extended warranty with it for not too much. RS ? ________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:35:53 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Went by HD at lunch. No luck. Doesn't look like they ever carried that model at the store where I went. Drats. I went online at the HD website and found this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100669124 Only 26lbs. Price includes shipping. I ordered one. I figure 750w AC should run my chargers and a fan. :-)? I ran the?battery in my van down?once, it still started but the alternator quickly went out trying to charge a nearly dead battery. Don't want that to happen again. I have a 20 amp 12v power supply, but think I will get?a 30 or 40 amp RV converter to go with this generator. I'll let you know how it turns out. Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Richard Strickland wrote: > >Well that would make sense--they speed up to produce power as it's needed--and a heating element is on?and off to maintain an average temp.? Certainly worth looking at.? I like the little Honda as it's fairly easy on my wimpy back and quiet enough if you run an extension from having it at the front of the vehicle to the back--you are hardly aware it's there at full power.? There's enough power to run two chargers and a small fan for motor cooling on?hot days...? I need to get a little oscillating fan--cool the motor--cool the pilot--cool the motor.... >? >BTW, I happened to be in the Muncie area touring some glass and fiberglass?manufacturing facilities--(HOT)--but got a chance to stop by the AMA Headquarters after hours.? What a great place to fly! >A few of the early bird CA guys were there practicing for the Aerobatic Nationals next week--impressive from what we were able to see...? Got me thinking a little about the bigger stuff--but I'm fighting it... >RS? >________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:31:50 -0700 >From: bob at toprudder.com >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i > > >One guy on the RV forum bought one at that price. The only complaint he had about it was the eco mode causing it to speed up and slow down constantly while his coffee maker was on. :-)? I think it is worth looking at, and I plan to go down to HD today to see if they have one. > >Bob R. > > >--- On Fri, 6/26/09, David wrote: > > >>From: David >>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i >>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:17 AM >> >> >> >>I was reading on RCU jet forum that Home Depot is selling the Honeywell 2000i generator for $299 in store price. Has anyone had experience with this generator? You will not find this price at Home Depot online. It is a in store sale price only. >>Thanks >>Dave >> >> >> ________________________________ [The entire original message is not included] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Wed Jul 1 09:04:31 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:04:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. In-Reply-To: <758747.39909.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian. Were you getting unstable input voltage errors? My cellpro chargers are doing this now. May be a firmware issue inside chargers. I have not put a meter on mine yet to verify the iota is really the issue. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre brian young wrote: Just a followup on this and IOTA as a pseudo pattern supplier. I left them an Email and they said whats your address we will ship you a new one return the old one in a box, that was nice. ? Brian From: Brian <brian_w_young at yahoo.com> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:22:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Has anyone had any problems with these? Mine when drawing from 2 chargers and only 19 amps or so on the supply output, drops output voltage to 12-119 vdc. My chargers dont like this. Curious what might be going on with it. Tks Brian From: Richard Strickland <pamrich47 at hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:21 PM To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Looks suspiciously like the Honda in many details...hmmm. You can probably get an extended warranty with it for not too much. RS ? Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:35:53 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Went by HD at lunch. No luck. Doesn't look like they ever carried that model at the store where I went. Drats. ? I went online at the HD website and found this: ? http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100669124 ? Only 26lbs. Price includes shipping. I ordered one. I figure 750w AC should run my chargers and a fan. :-)? I ran the?battery in my van down?once, it still started but the alternator quickly went out trying to charge a nearly dead battery. Don't want that to happen again. I have a 20 amp 12v power supply, but think I will get?a 30 or 40 amp RV converter to go with this generator. ? I'll let you know how it turns out. ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Richard Strickland <pamrich47 at hotmail.com> wrote: Well that would make sense--they speed up to produce power as it's needed--and a heating element is on?and off to maintain an average temp.? Certainly worth looking at.? I like the little Honda as it's fairly easy on my wimpy back and quiet enough if you run an extension from having it at the front of the vehicle to the back--you are hardly aware it's there at full power.? There's enough power to run two chargers and a small fan for motor cooling on?hot days...? I need to get a little oscillating fan--cool the motor--cool the pilot--cool the motor.... ? BTW, I happened to be in the Muncie area touring some glass and fiberglass?manufacturing facilities--(HOT)--but got a chance to stop by the AMA Headquarters after hours.? What a great place to fly! A few of the early bird CA guys were there practicing for the Aerobatic Nationals next week--impressive from what we were able to see...? Got me thinking a little about the bigger stuff--but I'm fighting it... RS? Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:31:50 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i One guy on the RV forum bought one at that price. The only complaint he had about it was the eco mode causing it to speed up and slow down constantly while his coffee maker was on. :-)? I think it is worth looking at, and I plan to go down to HD today to see if they have one. ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, David <teamvertical at excite.com> wrote: From: David <teamvertical at excite.com> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:17 AM I was reading on RCU jet forum that Home Depot is selling the Honeywell 2000i generator for $299 in store price. Has anyone had experience with this generator? You will not find this price at Home Depot online. It is a in store sale price only. Thanks Dave [The entire original message is not included] _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Wed Jul 1 09:32:31 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:32:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Message-ID: <500618.8903.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chris, ?If you have access to an oscilloscope by all means use it. You may not see everything with a DVM. A meter responds relatively slowly to voltage fluctuations as compared to an osilloscope. If the power supply is a switching type (I believe it is) the output may be "noisey" and that could be what's screwing up your chargers. Sometimes a capacitor across the power suppply outputs can help this but you need?an oscilloscope to see what you're doing. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Chris Moon wrote: From: Chris Moon Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 1:05 PM Brian. Were you getting unstable input voltage errors? My cellpro chargers are doing this now. May be a firmware issue inside chargers. I have not put a meter on mine yet to verify the iota is really the issue. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre brian young wrote: Just a followup on this and IOTA as a pseudo pattern supplier. I left them an Email and they said whats your address we will ship you a new one return the old one in a box, that was nice. ? Brian From: Brian To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:22:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Has anyone had any problems with these? Mine when drawing from 2 chargers and only 19 amps or so on the supply output, drops output voltage to 12-11.9 vdc. My chargers dont like this. Curious what might be going on with it Tks Brian From: Richard Strickland Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:21 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Looks suspiciously like the Honda in many details...hmmm. You can probably get an extended warranty with it for not too much. RS ? Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:35:53 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Went by HD at lunch. No luck. Doesn't look like they ever carried that model at the store where I went. Drats. ? I went online at the HD website and found this: ? http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100669124 ? Only 26lbs. Price includes shipping. I ordered one. I figure 750w AC should run my chargers and a fan. :-)? I ran the?battery in my van down?once, it still started but the alternator quickly went out trying to charge a nearly dead battery. Don't want that to happen again. I have a 20 amp 12v power supply, but think I will get?a 30 or 40 amp RV converter to go with this generator. ? I'll let you know how it turns out. ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Richard Strickland wrote: Well that would make sense--they speed up to produce power as it's needed--and a heating element is on?and off to maintain an average temp.? Certainly worth looking at.? I like the little Honda as it's fairly easy on my wimpy back and quiet enough if you run an extension from having it at the front of the vehicle to the back--you are hardly aware it's there at full power.? There's enough power to run two chargers and a small fan for motor cooling on?hot days...? I need to get a little oscillating fan--cool the motor--cool the pilot--cool the motor.... ? BTW, I happened to be in the Muncie area touring some glass and fiberglass?manufacturing facilities--(HOT)--but got a chance to stop by the AMA Headquarters after hours.? What a great place to fly! A few of the early bird CA guys were there practicing for the Aerobatic Nationals next week--impressive from what we were able to see...? Got me thinking a little about the bigger stuff--but I'm fighting it... RS? Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:31:50 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i One guy on the RV forum bought one at that price. The only complaint he had about it was the eco mode causing it to speed up and slow down constantly while his coffee maker was on. :-)? I think it is worth looking at, and I plan to go down to HD today to see if they have one. ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, David wrote: From: David Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:17 AM I was reading on RCU jet forum that Home Depot is selling the Honeywell 2000i generator for $299 in store price. Has anyone had experience with this generator? You will not find this price at Home Depot online. It is a in store sale price only. Thanks Dave [The entire original message is not included] _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 11:10:14 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:10:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <77085.47899.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes that is the error I was getting. My radioshack multimeter was fast enough to see a lot of variation, much faster than the cellpro's display of input voltage. The problem would surface once a load greater than 10 amps was drawn on the IOTA. The voltage would run at 13.4 V and stable when drawing up to 10-15 amps, higher amperage and the voltage begin to fluctuate by 0.3-0.5 volts dropping to a nominal voltage around 11.9-12V. The IOTA is stated as capable of 13.6 V at 55 Amps. On a side note I took the cover off and noticed?a?blade of grass hanging around legs of?the voltage controller. I blew it out with my shop vac in reverse and it has functioned fine on the?the last three uses drawing up to 44 amps with a stable voltage of 13.5. I have not received the replacement yet. I discovered this after talking to IOTA, hate to go ahead and warranty it now but its hard to tell for sure what went wrong. Mines only a year or so old. Brian ________________________________ From: Chris Moon To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:05:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Brian. Were you getting unstable input voltage errors? My cellpro chargers are doing this now. May be a firmware issue inside chargers. I have not put a meter on mine yet to verify the iota is really the issue. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre ________________________________ brian young wrote: Just a followup on this and IOTA as a pseudo pattern supplier. I left them an Email and they said whats your address we will ship you a new one return the old one in a box, that was nice. Brian ________________________________ From: Brian To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:22:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Has anyone had any problems with these? Mine when drawing from 2 chargers and only 19 amps or so on the supply output, drops output voltage to 12-11.9 vdc. My chargers dont like this. Curious what might be going on with it Tks Brian ________________________________ From: Richard Strickland Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:21 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Looks suspiciously like the Honda in many details...hmmm. You can probably get an extended warranty with it for not too much. RS ? ________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:35:53 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Went by HD at lunch. No luck. Doesn't look like they ever carried that model at the store where I went. Drats. I went online at the HD website and found this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100669124 Only 26lbs. Price includes shipping. I ordered one. I figure 750w AC should run my chargers and a fan. :-)? I ran the?battery in my van down?once, it still started but the alternator quickly went out trying to charge a nearly dead battery. Don't want that to happen again. I have a 20 amp 12v power supply, but think I will get?a 30 or 40 amp RV converter to go with this generator. I'll let you know how it turns out. Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Richard Strickland wrote: > >Well that would make sense--they speed up to produce power as it's needed--and a heating element is on?and off to maintain an average temp.? Certainly worth looking at.? I like the little Honda as it's fairly easy on my wimpy back and quiet enough if you run an extension from having it at the front of the vehicle to the back--you are hardly aware it's there at full power.? There's enough power to run two chargers and a small fan for motor cooling on?hot days...? I need to get a little oscillating fan--cool the motor--cool the pilot--cool the motor.... >? >BTW, I happened to be in the Muncie area touring some glass and fiberglass?manufacturing facilities--(HOT)--but got a chance to stop by the AMA Headquarters after hours.? What a great place to fly! >A few of the early bird CA guys were there practicing for the Aerobatic Nationals next week--impressive from what we were able to see...? Got me thinking a little about the bigger stuff--but I'm fighting it... >RS? >________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:31:50 -0700 >From: bob at toprudder.com >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i > > >One guy on the RV forum bought one at that price. The only complaint he had about it was the eco mode causing it to speed up and slow down constantly while his coffee maker was on. :-)? I think it is worth looking at, and I plan to go down to HD today to see if they have one. > >Bob R. > > >--- On Fri, 6/26/09, David wrote: > > >>From: David >>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i >>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:17 AM >> >> >> >>I was reading on RCU jet forum that Home Depot is selling the Honeywell 2000i generator for $299 in store price. Has anyone had experience with this generator? You will not find this price at Home Depot online. It is a in store sale price only. >>Thanks >>Dave >> >> >> ________________________________ [The entire original message is not included] _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edvwhite at yahoo.com Wed Jul 1 14:13:55 2009 From: edvwhite at yahoo.com (Ed White) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:13:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. In-Reply-To: <500618.8903.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <500618.8903.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <142825.31719.qm@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I was having similar problems on Cellpro's with the power supply I was using (not Iota). Looking at the voltage input to the charger on an oscilloscope shows the load from the Cellpro's is far from steady and way too fast to see on a meter. Switching power supplies really prefer a steady load. I thought about capacitors and did some calculations, but at the currents we're drawing, they have to be very big. I tried some ones I had around (15,000 uF) and that helped, just a little. As John said, you really have to look at it on an o-scope to see if you're doing any good. I ended up modifying the computer power supplies I'm using to put out higher voltage. That seems to be enough to keep the Cellpro's satisfied though I run them at less than full power. Ed ________________________________ From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:32:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Chris, If you have access to an oscilloscope by all means use it. You may not see everything with a DVM. A meter responds relatively slowly to voltage fluctuations as compared to an osilloscope. If the power supply is a switching type (I believe it is) the output may be "noisey" and that could be what's screwing up your chargers. Sometimes a capacitor across the power suppply outputs can help this but you need an oscilloscope to see what you're doing. :) John Pavlick --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Chris Moon wrote: From: Chris Moon Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 1:05 PM Brian. Were you getting unstable input voltage errors? My cellpro chargers are doing this now. May be a firmware issue inside chargers. I have not put a meter on mine yet to verify the iota is really the issue. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre ________________________________ brian young wrote: Just a followup on this and IOTA as a pseudo pattern supplier. I left them an Email and they said whats your address we will ship you a new one return the old one in a box, that was nice. Brian ________________________________ From: Brian To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:22:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Has anyone had any problems with these? Mine when drawing from 2 chargers and only 19 amps or so on the supply output, drops output voltage to 12-11.9 vdc. My chargers dont like this. Curious what might be going on with it Tks Brian ________________________________ From: Richard Strickland Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:21 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Looks suspiciously like the Honda in many details...hmmm. You can probably get an extended warranty with it for not too much. RS ________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:35:53 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i Went by HD at lunch. No luck. Doesn't look like they ever carried that model at the store where I went. Drats. I went online at the HD website and found this: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100669124 Only 26lbs. Price includes shipping. I ordered one. I figure 750w AC should run my chargers and a fan. :-) I ran the battery in my van down once, it still started but the alternator quickly went out trying to charge a nearly dead battery. Don't want that to happen again. I have a 20 amp 12v power supply, but think I will get a 30 or 40 amp RV converter to go with this generator. I'll let you know how it turns out. Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Richard Strickland wrote: Well that would make sense--they speed up to produce power as it's needed--and a heating element is on and off to maintain an average temp. Certainly worth looking at. I like the little Honda as it's fairly easy on my wimpy back and quiet enough if you run an extension from having it at the front of the vehicle to the back--you are hardly aware it's there at full power. There's enough power to run two chargers and a small fan for motor cooling on hot days... I need to get a little oscillating fan--cool the motor--cool the pilot--cool the motor.... BTW, I happened to be in the Muncie area touring some glass and fiberglass manufacturing facilities--(HOT)--but got a chance to stop by the AMA Headquarters after hours. What a great place to fly! A few of the early bird CA guys were there practicing for the Aerobatic Nationals next week--impressive from what we were able to see... Got me thinking a little about the bigger stuff--but I'm fighting it... RS ________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:31:50 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i One guy on the RV forum bought one at that price. The only complaint he had about it was the eco mode causing it to speed up and slow down constantly while his coffee maker was on. :-) I think it is worth looking at, and I plan to go down to HD today to see if they have one. Bob R. --- On Fri, 6/26/09, David wrote: From: David Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:17 AM I was reading on RCU jet forum that Home Depot is selling the Honeywell 2000i generator for $299 in store price. Has anyone had experience with this generator? You will not find this price at Home Depot online. It is a in store sale price only. Thanks Dave ________________________________ [The entire original message is not included] _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Wed Jul 1 14:22:13 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:22:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 In-Reply-To: <3454543c0906301502g2eebb857u4262cef88746346f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3454543c0906301502g2eebb857u4262cef88746346f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> Since it is 3 weeks to the Nats and hardly anyone has noticed on these pages, here's something to chew on It is a slow day in the East Texas town of Madisonville. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich tourist from the East is driving through town. He enters the only hotel in the sleepy town and lays a hundred dollar bill on the desk stating he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. As soon as the man walks up the stairs, the hotel proprietor takes the hundred dollar bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to pay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer then takes the $100 and heads off to pay his debt to the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has lately had to offer her "services" on credit. The hooker runs to the hotel and pays off her debt with the $100 to the hotel proprietor, paying for the rooms that she had rented when she brought clients to that establishment. The hotel proprietor then lays the $100 bill back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler from the East walks back down the stairs, after inspecting the rooms. He picks up the $100 bill and states that the rooms are not satisfactory...... Pockets the money and walks out the door and leaves town. No one earned anything. However the whole town is now out of debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is conducting business today. If that lesson doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't know what will. From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 14:29:20 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:29:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 In-Reply-To: <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> References: <3454543c0906301502g2eebb857u4262cef88746346f@mail.gmail.com> <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0907011529p3d1050b6jb058b90dc7fa7c5f@mail.gmail.com> It wasn't like this last year and for the past 8 years? Seems to me this all started just a short 18 months ago. On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:21 PM, wrote: > Since it is 3 weeks to the Nats and hardly anyone has noticed on these > pages, here's something to chew on > > > It is a slow day in the East Texas town of Madisonville. > > It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. > Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. > On this particular day a rich tourist from the East is driving through > town. > > He enters the only hotel in the sleepy town and lays a hundred dollar bill > on the desk stating he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick > one to spend the night. > As soon as the man walks up the stairs, the hotel proprietor takes the > hundred dollar bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. > > The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to pay his debt to the > pig farmer. > The pig farmer then takes the $100 and heads off to pay his debt to the > supplier of feed and fuel. > > The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to > the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has lately had > to offer her "services" on credit. > The hooker runs to the hotel and pays off her debt with the $100 to the > hotel proprietor, paying for the rooms that she had rented when she brought > clients to that establishment. > > The hotel proprietor then lays the $100 bill back on the counter so the > rich traveler will not suspect anything. > > At that moment the traveler from the East walks back down the stairs, after > inspecting the rooms. > > He picks up the $100 bill and states that the rooms are not > satisfactory...... Pockets the money and walks out the door and leaves > town. > > No one earned anything. However the whole town is now out of debt, and > looks to the future with a lot of optimism. > > That, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is > conducting business today. > > If that lesson doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't know what > will. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From js.smith at verizon.net Wed Jul 1 14:29:44 2009 From: js.smith at verizon.net (Scott Smith) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:29:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 In-Reply-To: <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> References: <3454543c0906301502g2eebb857u4262cef88746346f@mail.gmail.com> <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003f01c9fa9b$5d5caf80$18160e80$@smith@verizon.net> Sounds like only the hotel proprietor and prostitute got screwed in that deal... -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 6:22 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 Since it is 3 weeks to the Nats and hardly anyone has noticed on these pages, here's something to chew on It is a slow day in the East Texas town of Madisonville. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich tourist from the East is driving through town. He enters the only hotel in the sleepy town and lays a hundred dollar bill on the desk stating he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. As soon as the man walks up the stairs, the hotel proprietor takes the hundred dollar bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to pay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer then takes the $100 and heads off to pay his debt to the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has lately had to offer her "services" on credit. The hooker runs to the hotel and pays off her debt with the $100 to the hotel proprietor, paying for the rooms that she had rented when she brought clients to that establishment. The hotel proprietor then lays the $100 bill back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler from the East walks back down the stairs, after inspecting the rooms. He picks up the $100 bill and states that the rooms are not satisfactory...... Pockets the money and walks out the door and leaves town. No one earned anything. However the whole town is now out of debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is conducting business today. If that lesson doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't know what will. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Wed Jul 1 14:30:50 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:30:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 In-Reply-To: <-1797558134891552178@unknownmsgid> References: <3454543c0906301502g2eebb857u4262cef88746346f@mail.gmail.com> <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> <-1797558134891552178@unknownmsgid> Message-ID: <3454543c0907011530k2c8d751cvd6143d4b7e4311c3@mail.gmail.com> LOL - and some other patrons that frequented the hooker. On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Scott Smith wrote: > Sounds like only the hotel proprietor and prostitute got screwed in that > deal... > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > rcmaster199 at aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 6:22 PM > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 > > Since it is 3 weeks to the Nats and hardly anyone has noticed on these > pages, here's something to chew on > > > It is a slow day in the East Texas town of Madisonville. > > It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. > Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. > On this particular day a rich tourist from the East is driving through > town. > > He enters the only hotel in the sleepy town and lays a hundred dollar > bill on the desk stating he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in > order to pick one to spend the night. > As soon as the man walks up the stairs, the hotel proprietor takes the > hundred dollar bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. > > The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to pay his debt to > the pig farmer. > The pig farmer then takes the $100 and heads off to pay his debt to the > supplier of feed and fuel. > > The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt > to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has > lately had to offer her "services" on credit. > The hooker runs to the hotel and pays off her debt with the $100 to the > hotel proprietor, paying for the rooms that she had rented when she > brought clients to that establishment. > > The hotel proprietor then lays the $100 bill back on the counter so the > rich traveler will not suspect anything. > > At that moment the traveler from the East walks back down the stairs, > after inspecting the rooms. > > He picks up the $100 bill and states that the rooms are not > satisfactory...... Pockets the money and walks out the door and leaves > town. > > No one earned anything. However the whole town is now out of debt, and > looks to the future with a lot of optimism. > > That, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is > conducting business today. > > If that lesson doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't know > what will. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Wed Jul 1 15:24:35 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:24:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 References: <3454543c0906301502g2eebb857u4262cef88746346f@mail.gmail.com> <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <83233DB4C1804D9CB0E1911E7898EB82@glazecstp32xp> Exactly. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 6:21 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 > Since it is 3 weeks to the Nats and hardly anyone has noticed on these > pages, here's something to chew on > > > It is a slow day in the East Texas town of Madisonville. > > It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. > Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. > On this particular day a rich tourist from the East is driving through > town. > > He enters the only hotel in the sleepy town and lays a hundred dollar > bill on the desk stating he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in > order to pick one to spend the night. > As soon as the man walks up the stairs, the hotel proprietor takes the > hundred dollar bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. > > The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to pay his debt to > the pig farmer. > The pig farmer then takes the $100 and heads off to pay his debt to the > supplier of feed and fuel. > > The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt > to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has > lately had to offer her "services" on credit. > The hooker runs to the hotel and pays off her debt with the $100 to the > hotel proprietor, paying for the rooms that she had rented when she > brought clients to that establishment. > > The hotel proprietor then lays the $100 bill back on the counter so the > rich traveler will not suspect anything. > > At that moment the traveler from the East walks back down the stairs, > after inspecting the rooms. > > He picks up the $100 bill and states that the rooms are not > satisfactory...... Pockets the money and walks out the door and leaves > town. > > No one earned anything. However the whole town is now out of debt, and > looks to the future with a lot of optimism. > > That, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is > conducting business today. > > If that lesson doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't know > what will. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From jnhiller at earthlink.net Wed Jul 1 17:09:49 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:09:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 In-Reply-To: <8CBC8B177EDFB45-13A4-11C8@FWM-D35.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'm thinking new truck while I can still afford it. Jim Hiller -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:22 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Eco 101 Since it is 3 weeks to the Nats and hardly anyone has noticed on these pages, here's something to chew on It is a slow day in the East Texas town of Madisonville. It is raining, and the little town looks totally deserted. Times are tough, everybody is in debt and everybody lives on credit. On this particular day a rich tourist from the East is driving through town. He enters the only hotel in the sleepy town and lays a hundred dollar bill on the desk stating he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night. As soon as the man walks up the stairs, the hotel proprietor takes the hundred dollar bill and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher. The butcher takes the $100 and runs down the street to pay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer then takes the $100 and heads off to pay his debt to the supplier of feed and fuel. The guy at the Farmer's Co-op takes the $100 and runs to pay his debt to the local prostitute, who has also been facing hard times and has lately had to offer her "services" on credit. The hooker runs to the hotel and pays off her debt with the $100 to the hotel proprietor, paying for the rooms that she had rented when she brought clients to that establishment. The hotel proprietor then lays the $100 bill back on the counter so the rich traveler will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveler from the East walks back down the stairs, after inspecting the rooms. He picks up the $100 bill and states that the rooms are not satisfactory...... Pockets the money and walks out the door and leaves town. No one earned anything. However the whole town is now out of debt, and looks to the future with a lot of optimism. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how the United States Government is conducting business today. If that lesson doesn't scare the hell out of you, then I don't know what will. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From bob at toprudder.com Wed Jul 1 17:42:48 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:42:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Message-ID: <854882.69695.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> If not a capacitor, a 12v battery might do. --- On Wed, 7/1/09, John Pavlick wrote: > Chris, > ?If you have access to an oscilloscope by all > means use it. You may not see everything with a DVM. A meter > responds relatively slowly to voltage fluctuations as > compared to an osilloscope. If the power supply is a > switching type (I believe it is) the output may be > "noisey" and that could be what's screwing up > your chargers. Sometimes a capacitor across the power > suppply outputs can help this but you need?an > oscilloscope to see what you're doing. :) > ? > John Pavlick > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 06:21:54 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:21:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. In-Reply-To: <142825.31719.qm@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <500618.8903.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <142825.31719.qm@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <165466.64449.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I should retrace my steps a bit, I had used?this system for over a year with good success and the loads discussed. Then had a problem; so I figured something changed. Im no electrical whiz.....so dont have?much business messing with a scope but see the value for you guys that know. The Iota has a plug you can stick in to boost to 14+ volts, which I did during my troubles and the problem remained but at higher voltage? ;-) ________________________________ From: Ed White To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 5:13:52 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. I was having similar problems on Cellpro's with the power supply I was using (not Iota).? Looking at the voltage input to the charger on an oscilloscope shows the load from the Cellpro's is far from steady and way too fast to see on a meter.? Switching power supplies really prefer a steady load.? I thought about capacitors and did some calculations, but at the currents we're drawing, they have to be very big.? I tried some ones I had around (15,000 uF) and that helped, just a little. As John said, you really have to look at it on an o-scope to see if you're doing any good. I ended up modifying the computer power supplies I'm using to put out higher voltage.? That seems to be enough to keep the Cellpro's satisfied though I run them at less than full power. Ed ________________________________ From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 1, 2009 12:32:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. Chris, ?If you have access to an oscilloscope by all means use it. You may not see everything with a DVM. A meter responds relatively slowly to voltage fluctuations as compared to an osilloscope. If the power supply is a switching type (I believe it is) the output may be "noisey" and that could be what's screwing up your chargers. Sometimes a capacitor across the power suppply outputs can help this but you need?an oscilloscope to see what you're doing. :) John Pavlick --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Chris Moon wrote: >From: Chris Moon >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Supplier Credit - Re: IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 1:05 PM > > >Brian. Were you getting unstable input voltage errors? My cellpro chargers are doing this now. May be a firmware issue inside chargers. I have not put a meter on mine yet to verify the iota is really the issue. >Chris > >-- Sent from my Palm Pre > ________________________________ brian young wrote: > > >Just a followup on this and IOTA as a pseudo pattern supplier. I left them an Email and they said whats your address we will ship you a new one return the old one in a box, that was nice. > >Brian > > > > ________________________________ From: Brian >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 6:22:45 PM >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] IOTA 55 Powersupply - not holding voltage. > >Has anyone had any problems with these? Mine when drawing from 2 chargers and only 19 amps or so on the supply output, drops output voltage to 12-11.9 vdc. My chargers dont like this. >Curious what might be going on with it >Tks >Brian > > > >________________________________ From: Richard Strickland >Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:21 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i > >Looks suspiciously like the Honda in many details...hmmm. >You can probably get an extended warranty with it for not too much. >RS >? >________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:35:53 -0700 >From: bob at toprudder.com >To: nsrca-discussion at listsnsrca.org >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i > > >Went by HD at lunch. No luck. Doesn't look like they ever carried that model at the store where I went. Drats. > >I went online at the HD website and found this: > >http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100669124 > >Only 26lbs. Price includes shipping. I ordered one. I figure 750w AC should run my chargers and a fan. :-)? I ran the?battery in my van down?once, it still started but the alternator quickly went out trying to charge a nearly dead battery. Don't want that to happen again. I have a 20 amp 12v power supply, but think I will get?a 30 or 40 amp RV converter to go with this generator. > >I'll let you know how it turns out. > >Bob R. > >--- On Fri, 6/26/09, Richard Strickland wrote: > > >> >>Well that would make sense--they speed up to produce power as it's needed--and a heating element is on?and off to maintain an average temp.? Certainly worth looking at.? I like the little Honda as it's fairly easy on my wimpy back and quiet enough if you run an extension from having it at the front of the vehicle to the back--you are hardly aware it's there at full power.? There's enough power to run two chargers and a small fan for motor cooling on?hot days...? I need to get a little oscillating fan--cool the motor--cool the pilot--cool the motor.... >>? >>BTW, I happened to be in the Muncie area touring some glass and fiberglass?manufacturing facilities--(HOT)--but got a chance to stop by the AMA Headquarters after hours.? What a great place to fly! >>A few of the early bird CA guys were there practicing for the Aerobatic Nationals next week--impressive from what we were able to see...? Got me thinking a little about the bigger stuff--but I'm fighting it... >>RS? >>________________________________ Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:31:50 -0700 >>From: bob at toprudder.com >>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i >> >> >>One guy on the RV forum bought one at that price. The only complaint he had about it was the eco mode causing it to speed up and slow down constantly while his coffee maker was on. :-)? I think it is worth looking at, and I plan to go down to HD today to see if they have one. >> >>Bob R. >> >> >>--- On Fri, 6/26/09, David wrote: >> >> >>>From: David >>>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Generator - Honeywell 2000i >>>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>Date: Friday, June 26, 2009, 11:17 AM >>> >>> >>> >>>I was reading on RCU jet forum that Home Depot is selling the Honeywell 2000i generator for $299 in store price. Has anyone had experience with this generator? You will not find this price at Home Depot online. It is a in store sale price only. >>>Thanks >>>Dave >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ > >[The entire original message is not included] >_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Jul 2 06:32:49 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:32:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego Message-ID: <933216887.1608541246545168281.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hello all, I am going to San Diego on Sunday 12.? I will have the afternoon to visit.? I just would like to see a RC field close to San Diego. Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 2 14:25:14 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:25:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego Message-ID: <703397.33756.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Vicente, I forwarded this to our District 7 list. Maybe that will get you a reply. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/2/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego To: "NSRCA, NSRCA" Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 7:32 AM #yiv1041762035 p {margin:0;}Hello all, ? I am going to San Diego on Sunday 12.? I will have the afternoon to visit.? I just would like to see a RC field close to San Diego. ? Thanks, ? Vicente "Vince" Bortone -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Thu Jul 2 15:50:07 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:50:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <703397.33756.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <703397.33756.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A4D47AD.4030204@cox.net> There are several fields near San Diego. You will need a car to get around. There is an electric only field right in Mission Bay near Sea World. On 7/11 they are doing an electric IMAC event. You can get directions to their field here: http://sefsd.org/ Down in Chula Vista almost on the border there is another field: http://www.cvmrcc.com/ There is a field on the Miramar Marine Corps air station but you need a member to escort you there. They just had an IMAC contest there last weekend. Up I-15 and onto the I-215 there is a club in Perris (Riverside RC Club) that has several pattern guys there. This is about 1.25 hours north of SD. There may be some others around, but these are the ones that come to mind. You can also head up to the Torrey Pines soaring site to see RC gliders, hang gliders and para sails sharing one of the most spectacular soaring locations in the world. Here's a map: http://www.torreypinesgulls.org/torreys.htm It is right across the street from UCSD just north of La Jolla. That's all I know. From wemodels at cox.net Thu Jul 2 15:53:22 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:53:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <4A4D47AD.4030204@cox.net> References: <703397.33756.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A4D47AD.4030204@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A4D4870.4000408@cox.net> Oh, I should add that there are fields in Temecula and Hemet which are a bit closer than the Riverside RC field. I don't know anything about the Temecula field. Hemet has a couple of pattern guys, but not sure you can count on that. Email me direct and I will give you the contact info for a guy in SD who may be able to give you a better idea. From rclen123 at roadrunner.com Thu Jul 2 18:04:19 2009 From: rclen123 at roadrunner.com (rclen) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 02:04:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <933216887.1608541246545168281.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <933216887.1608541246545168281.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A4D671F.1010007@roadrunner.com> Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I am going to San Diego on Sunday 12. I will have the afternoon to > visit. I just would like to see a RC field close to San Diego. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Hello Vince: If you should come up to the Riverside area or LA area and I may be of some help let me know. Lynn Burks wk cell 818-254-6534, cell 909-802-5654 From jzeigenfus at comcast.net Thu Jul 2 21:01:52 2009 From: jzeigenfus at comcast.net (jzeigenfus at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:01:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Abbra Stuff Sold Message-ID: <646571862.2000751246597310310.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> All of the Abbra stuff is sold. Thanks JEZ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 05:15:37 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:15:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Abbra For Sale In-Reply-To: <4A4D4870.4000408@cox.net> References: <703397.33756.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A4D47AD.4030204@cox.net> <4A4D4870.4000408@cox.net> Message-ID: <313670.97670.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have an Abbra for sale -$2100 ? Selling RTF less receiver - and requires gear axles be installed (came with electric tall gear which I was in the process of switching to shorter). I will also part out if interested. ? YS1.60 (a gallon or two through it since YS worked over) Hatori Short Pipe Hyde Mount JR servos ? Good condition but has been used a couple of years, paint on rudder could use redoing. Contact me for pictures. I could haul to the Nats if someone wanted to look or pickup from there. ? Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Fri Jul 3 17:23:12 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:23:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet Message-ID: <4B79326B-3F13-4636-8B63-3EDAEE07A550@cox.net> I hope that everyone who will be attending the Nats will also attend the NSRCA Banquet. The Banquet will be held from 7:00-9:30 P.M. on Wednesday, July 15th at the Delaware Country Club. The Country Club is located due east of Muncie and just north of AMA's Headquarters. The address is 510 S Country Club Rd; Muncie, IN 47302. Maps showing the country club's location will be posted at Nats Headquarters and at all three flying sites. Tickets are $25 each and will be available at Nats Headquarters, from all NSRCA officers in attendance and from the flying site directors. Ron Van Putte From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 3 17:34:35 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 01:34:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet Message-ID: <41182.23200.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Ron! I'll be there! It was a lot of fun last year! Chris ? ? ? --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 6:24 PM I hope that everyone who will be attending the Nats will also attend the NSRCA Banquet.? The Banquet will be held from 7:00-9:30 P.M. on Wednesday, July 15th at the Delaware Country Club. The Country Club is located due east of Muncie and just north of AMA's Headquarters.? The address is 510 S Country Club Rd; Muncie, IN 47302.? Maps showing the country club's location will be posted at Nats Headquarters and at all three flying sites. Tickets are $25 each and will be available at Nats Headquarters, from all NSRCA officers in attendance and from the flying site directors. Ron Van Putte _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Fri Jul 3 18:08:54 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:08:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet In-Reply-To: <41182.23200.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <41182.23200.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <806BEC60-D88A-4A98-B4B0-5A61191B6105@cox.net> We need to work on a few innovative things to do. Maybe a Vapor Limbo contest? Ron VP On Jul 3, 2009, at 8:34 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > Thanks Ron! > > I'll be there! It was a lot of fun last year! > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/3/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 6:24 PM > > I hope that everyone who will be attending the Nats will also > attend the NSRCA Banquet. The Banquet will be held from 7:00-9:30 > P.M. on Wednesday, July 15th at the Delaware Country Club. > > The Country Club is located due east of Muncie and just north of > AMA's Headquarters. The address is 510 S Country Club Rd; Muncie, > IN 47302. Maps showing the country club's location will be posted > at Nats Headquarters and at all three flying sites. > > Tickets are $25 each and will be available at Nats Headquarters, > from all NSRCA officers in attendance and from the flying site > directors. > > Ron Van Putte > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlachow at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 08:15:44 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:15:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Integral Wings and Beryll Message-ID: One set of wings has been spoken for. I took the offer of $50. So if anyone else wants a set of all white Integral wings for $50 to be picked up at the Nats, contact me off list. From: jlachow at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Integral Wings and Beryll Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:17:27 -0400 I have three sets of white Integral wings laying around. Anyone interested contact me off list. Any reasonable offer will be taken. I can deliver to the Nats. I also have a Beryll for sale that can be delivered to Muncie. Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaqfly at prodigy.net Sat Jul 4 09:40:08 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:40:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] District Shirt Day at the NATS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <607344.92277.qm@web83303.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> If you are going to the NATS next week and have a District Shirt could you please wear it on Wednesday. I would like to do a feature in the NatsNews about District Shirts, so wear them on Wednesday, if? you would, please. ? Thanks, ? Jim Quinn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sat Jul 4 09:59:17 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:59:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 60 tickets sold; Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio added to the list In-Reply-To: <4A18E5FD.7040202@canisius.edu> References: <4A18E5FD.7040202@canisius.edu> Message-ID: <7695EC90788A49FAB6942255EB0F1710@LLDPC> I tried to purchase tickets, but the screen states, "This recipient is currently unable to receive money." Anybody else having this problem? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Martin X. Moleski, SJ Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:15 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 60 tickets sold; Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio added to the list I'm getting a better grip on how the raffle is going to work. Stay tuned for further exciting developments in the world of PHP, MySQL, and .pdf. Meanwhile, another prize has been added to the list: Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio. * Black Magic V3 kit * 2 Futaba 10 channel FASST radios * JR 12 channel, Spread Spectrum radio * Airtronics 10C Spread Spectrum radio * YS170DZ * OS FS200SP * RealFlight 4.5 with all six expansion packs * Aspera electric 46" model complete * 51" Almost Ready to Fly stick--add your own receiver http://nsrca.org/PayPal/raffle.htm Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From adriancwong at earthlink.net Sat Jul 4 10:04:41 2009 From: adriancwong at earthlink.net (adriancwong at earthlink.net) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:04:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 60 tickets sold; Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio added to the list Message-ID: <8436169.1246730679955.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Same here. I believe it's because the url is listed as .org instead of .us? -----Original Message----- >From: Lisa n Larry >Sent: Jul 4, 2009 1:59 PM >To: 'General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 60 tickets sold; Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio added to the list > >I tried to purchase tickets, but the screen states, "This recipient is >currently unable to receive money." > >Anybody else having this problem? > >-----Original Message----- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Martin X. >Moleski, SJ >Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:15 AM >To: NSRCA Discussion List >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 60 tickets sold; Airtronics 10C spread spectrum >radio added to the list > >I'm getting a better grip on how the raffle is going >to work. > >Stay tuned for further exciting developments in the >world of PHP, MySQL, and .pdf. > >Meanwhile, another prize has been added to the list: >Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio. > > * Black Magic V3 kit > * 2 Futaba 10 channel FASST radios > * JR 12 channel, Spread Spectrum radio > * Airtronics 10C Spread Spectrum radio > * YS170DZ > * OS FS200SP > * RealFlight 4.5 with all six expansion packs > * Aspera electric 46" model complete > * 51" Almost Ready to Fly stick--add your own receiver > >http://nsrca.org/PayPal/raffle.htm > > Marty >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jeff at priusonline.com Sat Jul 4 10:09:07 2009 From: jeff at priusonline.com (Jeff Hatton) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:09:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 60 tickets sold; Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio added to the list In-Reply-To: <7695EC90788A49FAB6942255EB0F1710@LLDPC> References: <4A18E5FD.7040202@canisius.edu> <7695EC90788A49FAB6942255EB0F1710@LLDPC> Message-ID: <1A25698B-D8C1-40E2-8650-8CD8281EFF8E@priusonline.com> Same here - Jeff Hatton ------ If engineers designed machines like lawyers make laws, you'd need to hire an engineer to operate even the most trivial machine. On Jul 4, 2009, at 1:59 PM, "Lisa n Larry" wrote: > I tried to purchase tickets, but the screen states, "This recipient is > currently unable to receive money." > > Anybody else having this problem? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Martin X. > Moleski, SJ > Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 1:15 AM > To: NSRCA Discussion List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 60 tickets sold; Airtronics 10C spread > spectrum > radio added to the list > > I'm getting a better grip on how the raffle is going > to work. > > Stay tuned for further exciting developments in the > world of PHP, MySQL, and .pdf. > > Meanwhile, another prize has been added to the list: > Airtronics 10C spread spectrum radio. > > * Black Magic V3 kit > * 2 Futaba 10 channel FASST radios > * JR 12 channel, Spread Spectrum radio > * Airtronics 10C Spread Spectrum radio > * YS170DZ > * OS FS200SP > * RealFlight 4.5 with all six expansion packs > * Aspera electric 46" model complete > * 51" Almost Ready to Fly stick--add your own receiver > > http://nsrca.org/PayPal/raffle.htm > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From moleski at canisius.edu Sat Jul 4 10:46:48 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:46:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) In-Reply-To: <1A25698B-D8C1-40E2-8650-8CD8281EFF8E@priusonline.com> References: <4A18E5FD.7040202@canisius.edu> <7695EC90788A49FAB6942255EB0F1710@LLDPC> <1A25698B-D8C1-40E2-8650-8CD8281EFF8E@priusonline.com> Message-ID: <4A4FA395.3030904@canisius.edu> > On Jul 4, 2009, at 1:59 PM, "Lisa n Larry" wrote: > I tried to purchase tickets, but the screen states, "This recipient is > currently unable to receive money." Bummer. We've sold 98 tickets using the same script ($1960.00). Although the page is advertised on nsrca.us, it is served by: So far as I know, I haven't done anything to change the system setup. I don't run the PayPal account. Ah. PayPal Acceptable Use Policy This Policy was last modified on June 3, 2009. Prohibited ActivitiesYou may not use the PayPal service for activities that: #3 (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts ... #6 involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law. Drat. Marty From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 11:34:07 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:34:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet In-Reply-To: <4B79326B-3F13-4636-8B63-3EDAEE07A550@cox.net> References: <4B79326B-3F13-4636-8B63-3EDAEE07A550@cox.net> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 4 14:36:12 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:36:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) Message-ID: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Then, How do we purchase the raffle tickets?? ? Ihncheol --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote: From: Martin X. Moleski, SJ Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 1:46 PM > On Jul 4, 2009, at 1:59 PM, "Lisa n Larry" wrote: > I tried to purchase tickets, but the screen states, "This recipient is > currently unable to receive money." Bummer. We've sold 98 tickets using the same script ($1960.00). Although the page is advertised on nsrca.us, it is served by: So far as I know, I haven't done anything to change the system setup.? I don't run the PayPal account. Ah. PayPal Acceptable Use Policy This Policy was last modified on June 3, 2009. Prohibited ActivitiesYou may not use the PayPal service for activities that: #3 (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts ... #6 involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law. Drat. ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Sat Jul 4 14:43:03 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:43:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) In-Reply-To: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A4FDAF4.9000305@cox.net> My wife used to work for a hospital foundation. They got sideways selling "raffle tickets" with various government agencies and so on. They learned there are two keys: 1 - DO NOT CALL IT A RAFFLE. It is an OPPORTUNITY DRAWING. I know, semantics, but it works for the IRS so I suspect PayPal will be OK. 2 - you CANNOT require people to buy a ticket. If they want a ticket for free they can ask for and demand one. Now in nearly 10 years of doing several opportunity drawings per year they never once had someone demand a free ticket. But it is a key part of this. May not help here, but this is what most all non-prfit groups around the country have learned to do in order to keep doing raffles.. oops, I mean opportunity drawings without getting government agencies unhappy with them. From moleski at canisius.edu Sat Jul 4 15:00:28 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:00:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) In-Reply-To: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A4FDF09.8040605@canisius.edu> Ihncheol Park wrote: > Then, How do we purchase the raffle tickets? That is a gooooood question. I don't have a good answer. Send the money to Brian Clemmons directly? Marty From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sat Jul 4 15:03:36 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:03:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) In-Reply-To: <4A4FDF09.8040605@canisius.edu> References: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A4FDF09.8040605@canisius.edu> Message-ID: District VPs have tickets. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Martin X. Moleski, SJ Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 7:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) Ihncheol Park wrote: > Then, How do we purchase the raffle tickets? That is a gooooood question. I don't have a good answer. Send the money to Brian Clemmons directly? Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wgalligan at att.net Sat Jul 4 15:26:44 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:26:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) In-Reply-To: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <29AE4A0151DA43E584CDF1DA57930184@WaynePC> I assume that any purchases for Opportunity Tickets prior to this program are OK! Wayne Galligan ---- Original Message ----- From: Ihncheol Park To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) Then, How do we purchase the raffle tickets? Ihncheol --- On Sat, 7/4/09, Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote: From: Martin X. Moleski, SJ Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Saturday, July 4, 2009, 1:46 PM > On Jul 4, 2009, at 1:59 PM, "Lisa n Larry" wrote: > I tried to purchase tickets, but the screen states, "This recipient is > currently unable to receive money." Bummer. We've sold 98 tickets using the same script ($1960.00). Although the page is advertised on nsrca.us, it is served by: So far as I know, I haven't done anything to change the system setup. I don't run the PayPal account. Ah. PayPal Acceptable Use Policy This Policy was last modified on June 3, 2009. Prohibited ActivitiesYou may not use the PayPal service for activities that: #3 (c) are associated with purchases of annuities or lottery contracts ... #6 involve gambling, gaming and/or any other activity with an entry fee and a prize, including, but not limited to casino games, sports betting, horse or greyhound racing, lottery tickets, other ventures that facilitate gambling, games of skill (whether or not it is legally defined as a lottery) and sweepstakes unless the operator has obtained prior approval from PayPal and the operator and customers are located exclusively in jurisdictions where such activities are permitted by law. Drat. Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Sat Jul 4 15:29:21 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:29:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) In-Reply-To: <29AE4A0151DA43E584CDF1DA57930184@WaynePC> References: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <29AE4A0151DA43E584CDF1DA57930184@WaynePC> Message-ID: <4A4FE5CE.5050006@canisius.edu> Wayne Galligan wrote: > I assume that any purchases for Opportunity Tickets prior to this > program are OK! We'll work it out. We want your money. You want the Opportunity. The officers must be out somewhere at a contest. :o) Marty From flyintexan at att.net Sat Jul 4 15:29:50 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Sat, 04 Jul 2009 23:29:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) References: <628137.17812.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A4FDF09.8040605@canisius.edu> Message-ID: <87C5E30F020641A6863D60FAE4E88959@MARK> Your District VP should have tickets. Only this week left to purchase though. I am bringing all tickets and money that I have collected with me to the Nats. Brian Instructed me to get in touch with him as soon as I get there....for all those who have tickets and money.. Brian Clemmons: 225-572-0189 -mark, D6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 18:00 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal payment problem (raffle tickets sales) > Ihncheol Park wrote: > >> Then, How do we purchase the raffle tickets? > > That is a gooooood question. > > I don't have a good answer. > > Send the money to Brian Clemmons directly? > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 4 17:24:21 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:24:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Need pipe mounting suggestion(s) Message-ID: <101680.2663.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am in the middle of work with YS engine and current rigid header & short aluminum pipe from Hatori. ? Engine is on Hyde mount.? Type A. ? There is only about 1/8" space between the floor to the bare pipe, so no mounting hardware. ? How should I proceed on mounting the pipe? ? Any suggestion(s)? ? Thank you, ? Ihncheol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sat Jul 4 18:01:27 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:01:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Need pipe mounting suggestion(s) In-Reply-To: <101680.2663.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <101680.2663.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I had exactly this problem. I took a 6" length of insulated braided copper wire. I bared the ends of the wire and soldered them together. I pushed the wire "circle" together and slipped two short pieces of heat shrink tubing over the wire, with enough space between them to allow a button head bolt to go through. Then I shrunk the heat shrink tubing. I mounted a blind nut inside the fuselage and screwed the bolt into the blind nut. Now I had two loops sticking out on either side of the pipe and ran a length of zip tie through one loop, over the pipe, through the other loop and back to make the connection. Ron VP On Jul 4, 2009, at 8:24 PM, Ihncheol Park wrote: > I am in the middle of work with YS engine and current rigid header > & short aluminum pipe from Hatori. > > Engine is on Hyde mount. Type A. > > There is only about 1/8" space between the floor to the bare pipe, > so no mounting hardware. > > How should I proceed on mounting the pipe? > > Any suggestion(s)? > > Thank you, > > Ihncheol > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 4 18:49:17 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:49:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Need pipe mounting suggestion(s) In-Reply-To: References: <101680.2663.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c9fd1b$2e37c140$8aa743c0$@net> Ron, Thank you for the great solution!. Do you think Kevlar thread or a coated steel wire (rudder pull-pull cable) will work instead of copper? 1/2A fuel line instead of heat shrink tubes? I will cut a small section of the fuel line to have the screw to go on. Small section (about an inch or 1.5") of large fuel line for the ziptie. I am trying to keep the muffler without crush or scratch and silicone tubing works as vibration damper. What do you think? Ihncheol -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:03 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Need pipe mounting suggestion(s) I had exactly this problem. I took a 6" length of insulated braided copper wire. I bared the ends of the wire and soldered them together. I pushed the wire "circle" together and slipped two short pieces of heat shrink tubing over the wire, with enough space between them to allow a button head bolt to go through. Then I shrunk the heat shrink tubing. I mounted a blind nut inside the fuselage and screwed the bolt into the blind nut. Now I had two loops sticking out on either side of the pipe and ran a length of zip tie through one loop, over the pipe, through the other loop and back to make the connection. Ron VP On Jul 4, 2009, at 8:24 PM, Ihncheol Park wrote: > I am in the middle of work with YS engine and current rigid header > & short aluminum pipe from Hatori. > > Engine is on Hyde mount. Type A. > > There is only about 1/8" space between the floor to the bare pipe, > so no mounting hardware. > > How should I proceed on mounting the pipe? > > Any suggestion(s)? > > Thank you, > > Ihncheol > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Sat Jul 4 18:59:40 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 02:59:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Need pipe mounting suggestion(s) In-Reply-To: <000001c9fd1b$2e37c140$8aa743c0$@net> References: <101680.2663.qm@web83915.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <000001c9fd1b$2e37c140$8aa743c0$@net> Message-ID: Kevlar or coated steel wire would also work. I wouldn't replace the heat shrink tubing with fuel tubing. You want to keep the two pieces of wire (or Kevlar) together so the bolt can't pull through. The heat shrink tubing works. The fuel tubing might work if the bolt head is big enough or the fuel tubing is small enough. Ron On Jul 4, 2009, at 9:49 PM, Ihncheol Park wrote: > Ron, > > Thank you for the great solution!. > > Do you think Kevlar thread or a coated steel wire (rudder pull-pull > cable) > will work instead of copper? > 1/2A fuel line instead of heat shrink tubes? > > I will cut a small section of the fuel line to have the screw to go > on. > Small section (about an inch or 1.5") of large fuel line for the > ziptie. > > I am trying to keep the muffler without crush or scratch and > silicone tubing > works as vibration damper. > > What do you think? > > Ihncheol > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron > Van Putte > Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 9:03 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Need pipe mounting suggestion(s) > > I had exactly this problem. I took a 6" length of insulated braided > copper wire. I bared the ends of the wire and soldered them > together. I pushed the wire "circle" together and slipped two short > pieces of heat shrink tubing over the wire, with enough space between > them to allow a button head bolt to go through. Then I shrunk the > heat shrink tubing. I mounted a blind nut inside the fuselage and > screwed the bolt into the blind nut. Now I had two loops sticking > out on either side of the pipe and ran a length of zip tie through > one loop, over the pipe, through the other loop and back to make the > connection. > > Ron VP > > On Jul 4, 2009, at 8:24 PM, Ihncheol Park wrote: > >> I am in the middle of work with YS engine and current rigid header >> & short aluminum pipe from Hatori. >> >> Engine is on Hyde mount. Type A. >> >> There is only about 1/8" space between the floor to the bare pipe, >> so no mounting hardware. >> >> How should I proceed on mounting the pipe? >> >> Any suggestion(s)? >> >> Thank you, >> >> Ihncheol >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jzeigenfus at comcast.net Sat Jul 4 20:23:00 2009 From: jzeigenfus at comcast.net (jzeigenfus at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 04:23:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I did the same thing Chris and don't have any thing to show that I paid in advance either. JEZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Moon" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 3:33:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet Ron: For those who paid for the banquet with their NATS registration, is there a means to show we paid? I didn't receive anything in my packet referring to having paid for the banquet. Chris Ron Van Putte wrote: I hope that everyone who will be attending the Nats will also attend the NSRCA Banquet. The Banquet will be held from 7:00-9:30 P.M. on Wednesday, July 15th at the Delaware Country Club. The Country Club is located due east of Muncie and just north of AMA's Headquarters. The address is 510 S Country Club Rd; Muncie, IN 47302. Maps showing the country club's location will be posted at Nats Headquarters and at all three flying sites. Tickets are $25 each and will be available at Nats Headquarters, from all NSRCA officers in attendance and from the flying site directors. Ron Van Putte _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.3/2217 - Release Date: 07/03/09 18:11:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Jul 5 03:56:58 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 11:56:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] For Sale : Titan RTF (All Wood) w/ Spare YS140DZ NIB In-Reply-To: <72F765490E3F40B784FF412BAB886B51@LLDPC> References: <72F765490E3F40B784FF412BAB886B51@LLDPC> Message-ID: <0CC184091BD141B1BA66A6E461543D45@LLDPC> Posted on RCU. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:21 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] For Sale : Titan RTF (All Wood) w/ Spare YS140DZ NIB I'm selling an all wood built Titan 2M Pattern plane (Scott and Mike Dunphy design). This should be a good starter plane for Sportsman and Intermediate. I bought this plane from Ron Clark in 2005 and it has been hanging around. I have not flown this plane. I believe Ron Clark flew the plane in Masters Class. It is light and well built. $1,200 gets the following: Titan Airframe RTF YS 140DZ mounted w/pipe (low time) YS 140DZ NIB spare (never mounted and only ran YS performance) Futaba Digitals in the wings (I'm not able to verify this as the servo bay was covered w/ monokote) Airtronics Digitals on Rudder and Elevator PPG CF Wing Tube Tru-Turn Spinner AUW RTF - 10 pounds 5 ounces If there are no takers, I will list on RCU. No takers on RCU and I will start parting out. The intent for this offer is to give a newcomer a good deal. I know what its like not to have a backup engine at contest. My personal guarantee. Money back, no questions, for 30 days. If you fly the plane you own it from that point. If you have any questions please ask. I would recommend that you have the plane checked out by a seasoned pattern flyer to meet your satisfaction. I will not ship the plane, but I'm willing to drive a bit. I live in Santa Claus, IN 47579 If interested contact me off line at 812-544-2306 or e-mail me at lld613 at psci.net. Larry Diamond NSRCA 5024 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sun Jul 5 05:21:46 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:21:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet In-Reply-To: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net> I will get with the people at AMA who handle entries and ask them to part out the names of those who paid for the banquet. It should be understood that the banquet ticket price on the entry form was what was paid for last year's banquet. AMA's squabble with Cardinal Hills Country Club, which precluded our going back there this year, caused us to end up with the Delaware Country Club and a higher banquet ticket price. I will give banquet tickets to those who prepaid for an extra $10 to make up the difference. I also think it's only fair to give a refund for those who prepaid and think the banquet ticket price is too high. BTW, I noted in the AMA Nats News that the IMAC guys went to the Muncie Convention Center for their banquet and they paid $35 per ticket. Ron Van Putte On Jul 4, 2009, at 11:22 PM, jzeigenfus at comcast.net wrote: > I did the same thing Chris and don't have any thing to show that I > paid in advance either. JEZ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chris Moon" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 3:33:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet > > Ron: > > For those who paid for the banquet with their NATS registration, is > there a means to show we paid? I didn't receive anything in my > packet referring to having paid for the banquet. > > Chris > > Ron Van Putte wrote: I hope that everyone who will be attending the > Nats will also attend the NSRCA Banquet. The Banquet will be held > from 7:00-9:30 P.M. on Wednesday, July 15th at the Delaware Country > Club. > > The Country Club is located due east of Muncie and just north of > AMA's Headquarters. The address is 510 S Country Club Rd; Muncie, > IN 47302. Maps showing the country club's location will be posted > at Nats Headquarters and at all three flying sites. > > Tickets are $25 each and will be available at Nats Headquarters, > from all NSRCA officers in attendance and from the flying site > directors. > > Ron Van Putte > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - > www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.3/2217 - > Release Date: 07/03/09 18:11:00 > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion > mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http:// > lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jonlowe at aol.com Sun Jul 5 05:33:42 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:33:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet In-Reply-To: <5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net> References: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net> Message-ID: <8CBCB8C4C2FCE7E-BDC-481@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> Ron, Why are those of us who prepaid for the banquet being charged $10 more when the new ticket price is only $5 more than we paid? We paid $20. Also, my registration material that I received back from AMA shows that I paid for the banquet. It is on the cover letter that AMA sent back. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sun, Jul 5, 2009 8:22 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet I will get with the people at AMA who handle entries and ask them to part out the names of those who paid for the banquet. It should be understood that the banquet ticket price on the entry form was what was paid for last year's banquet. AMA's squabble with Cardinal Hills Country Club, which precluded our going back there this year, caused us to end up with the Delaware Country Club and a higher banquet ticket price. I will give banquet tickets to those who prepaid for an extra $10 to make up the difference. I also think it's only fair to give a refund for those who prepaid and think the banquet ticket price is too high. BTW, I noted in the AMA Nats News that the IMAC guys went to the Muncie Convention Center for their banquet and they paid $35 per ticket.? ? Ron Van Putte? ? On Jul 4, 2009 , at 11:22 PM, jzeigenfus at comcast.net wrote:? ? > I did the same thing Chris and don't have any thing to show that I > paid in advance either. JEZ? >? >? > ----- Original Message -----? > From: "Chris Moon" ? > To: "General pattern discussion" ? > Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 3:33:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet? >? > Ron:? >? > For those who paid for the banquet with their NATS registration, is > there a means to show we paid? I didn't receive anything in my > packet referring to having paid for the banquet.? >? > Chris? >? > Ron Van Putte wrote: I hope that everyone who will be attending the > Nats will also attend the NSRCA Banquet. The Banquet will be held > from 7:00-9:30 P.M. on Wednesday, July 15th at the Delaware Country > Club.? >? > The Country Club is located due east of Muncie and just north of > AMA's Headquarters. The address is 510 S Country Club Rd; Muncie, > IN 47302. Maps showing the country club's location will be posted > at Nats Headquarters and at all three flying sites.? >? > Tickets are $25 each and will be available at Nats Headquarters, > from all NSRCA officers in attendance an d from the flying site > directors.? >? > Ron Van Putte? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - > www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.3/2217 - > Release Date: 07/03/09 18:11:00? > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion > mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://> lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? ? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? From vanputte at cox.net Sun Jul 5 05:39:58 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:39:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet In-Reply-To: <8CBCB8C4C2FCE7E-BDC-481@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> References: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net> <8CBCB8C4C2FCE7E-BDC-481@FWM-D28.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Oops! My mistake. Instead of going into the AMA site and looking at the entry form, I assumed that $15 was charged. I should have looked and got lazy. Ron On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:33 AM, Jon Lowe wrote: > Ron, > Why are those of us who prepaid for the banquet being charged $10 > more when the new ticket price is only $5 more than we paid? We > paid $20. > > Also, my registration material that I received back from AMA shows > that I paid for the banquet. It is on the cover letter that AMA > sent back. > > > Jon Lowe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Van Putte > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Sun, Jul 5, 2009 8:22 am > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet > > > > > > > > > > I will get with the people at AMA who handle entries and ask them > to part out the names of those who paid for the banquet. It should > be understood that the banquet ticket price on the entry form was > what was paid for last year's banquet. AMA's squabble with > Cardinal Hills Country Club, which precluded our going back there > this year, caused us to end up with the Delaware Country Club and a > higher banquet ticket price. I will give banquet tickets to those > who prepaid for an extra $10 to make up the difference. I also > think it's only fair to give a refund for those who prepaid and > think the banquet ticket price is too high. BTW, I noted in the > AMA Nats News that the IMAC guys went to the Muncie Convention > Center for their banquet and they paid $35 per ticket. > > > Ron Van Putte > > > On Jul 4, 2009 > , at 11:22 PM, jzeigenfus at comcast.net wrote: > > >> I did the same thing Chris and don't have any thing to show that I > > paid in advance either. JEZ > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Chris Moon" > >> To: "General pattern discussion" > >> Sent: Saturday, July 4, 2009 3:33:56 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet > >> > >> Ron: > >> > >> For those who paid for the banquet with their NATS registration, is > > there a means to show we paid? I didn't receive anything in my > > packet referring to having paid for the banquet. > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> Ron Van Putte wrote: I hope that everyone who will be attending the > > Nats will also attend the NSRCA Banquet. The Banquet will be held > > from 7:00-9:30 P.M. on Wednesday, July 15th at the Delaware > Country > Club. > >> > >> The Country Club is located due east of Muncie and just north of > > AMA's Headquarters. The address is 510 S Country Club Rd; Muncie, > > IN 47302. Maps showing the country club's location will be > posted > at Nats Headquarters and at all three flying sites. > >> > >> Tickets are $25 each and will be available at Nats Headquarters, > > from all NSRCA officers in attendance an > d from the flying site > directors. > >> > >> Ron Van Putte > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - > > www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.3/2217 - > > Release Date: 07/03/09 18:11:00 > >> _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion > > mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://> > lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Sun Jul 5 09:00:37 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:00:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Prepaid Nats Banquet Tickets Message-ID: Thanks to Randa Coats at AMA, I now have a list of all the people who prepaid for NSRCA banquet tickets. Please see me at the Nats to get your banquet tickets. I will also try to see if personnel at Nats Headquarters would be willing to do it, since they will already be selling them. Ron Van Putte From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 14:47:56 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:47:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] nats night flying Message-ID: <71072.67355.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bring your night toys to the nats! We'll be out at night with our Flutter Bye's. Usually site 4. Chris ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Sun Jul 5 16:22:54 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:22:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <4A4D47AD.4030204@cox.net> Message-ID: <2014471128.492111246839773373.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Thanks to all that responded.?? I was out of range this weekend and I could not check my e-mails.? I will put together a plan using the recommendations . Regards, Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" < wemodels @cox.net> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 6:50:05 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego ? There are several fields near San Diego. You will need a car to get around. There is an electric only field right in Mission Bay near Sea World. On 7/11 they are doing an electric IMAC event. You can get directions to their field here: http :// sefsd .org/ Down in Chula Vista almost on the border there is another field: http :// www . cvmrcc .com/ There is a field on the Miramar Marine Corps air station but you need a member to escort you there. They just had an IMAC contest there last weekend. Up I-15 and onto the I-215 there is a club in Perris (Riverside RC Club) that has several pattern guys there. This is about 1.25 hours north of SD. There may be some others around, but these are the ones that come to mind. You can also head up to the Torrey Pines soaring site to see RC gliders, hang gliders and para sails sharing one of the most spectacular soaring locations in the world. Here's a map: ? http :// www . torreypinesgulls .org/ torreys . htm It is right across the street from UCSD just north of La Jolla . That's all I know. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Sun Jul 5 17:38:54 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:38:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification In-Reply-To: <5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net> References: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net> Message-ID: <920600.38188.qm@web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My agenda says check in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, Pilots meeting Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th,?Finals Friday 17th. ? On the back it says Monday is practice. ? So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? Thursday is open... ? Just checking. ? Thanks Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sun Jul 5 17:50:52 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:50:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification In-Reply-To: <920600.38188.qm@web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net> <920600.38188.qm@web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <60F46A6F-B797-4D4D-8CB0-C50BF9BF0F2F@cox.net> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, each pilot flies two flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. Intermediate and Advanced are done on Thursday. The top Master class pilots fly Finals on Friday. The F3A Prelims are Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on Friday. Ron Van Putte On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: > I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My agenda says check > in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, Pilots meeting > Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, Finals Friday 17th. > > > On the back it says Monday is practice. > > > So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? Thursday is open... > > > Just checking. > > > Thanks > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Sun Jul 5 18:25:33 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:25:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification In-Reply-To: <60F46A6F-B797-4D4D-8CB0-C50BF9BF0F2F@cox.net> References: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net><920600.38188.qm@web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <60F46A6F-B797-4D4D-8CB0-C50BF9BF0F2F@cox.net> Message-ID: <64A7E46B6E614F88A1D5978DE4049E74@davedesktop> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? Thanks, Dave -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, each pilot flies two flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. Intermediate and Advanced are done on Thursday. The top Master class pilots fly Finals on Friday. The F3A Prelims are Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on Friday. Ron Van Putte On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: > I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My agenda says check > in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, Pilots meeting > Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, Finals Friday 17th. > > > On the back it says Monday is practice. > > > So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? Thursday is open... > > > Just checking. > > > Thanks > > Brian > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Sun Jul 5 18:49:16 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:49:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification In-Reply-To: <64A7E46B6E614F88A1D5978DE4049E74@davedesktop> References: <139513522.352121246767779000.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><5BD25E77-2CC7-4B75-9593-2E8031EB6685@cox.net><920600.38188.qm@web35205.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <60F46A6F-B797-4D4D-8CB0-C50BF9BF0F2F@cox.net> <64A7E46B6E614F88A1D5978DE4049E74@davedesktop> Message-ID: It is my understanding that it's the same as last year: Advanced/F3A in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. Ron VP On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: > Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? > > Thanks, > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron > Van Putte > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > > For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, each pilot flies two > flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. Intermediate and > Advanced are done on Thursday. The top Master class pilots fly > Finals on Friday. The F3A Prelims are Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights > per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on Friday. > > Ron Van Putte > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: > >> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My agenda says check >> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, Pilots meeting >> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, Finals Friday >> 17th. >> >> >> On the back it says Monday is practice. >> >> >> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? Thursday is >> open... >> >> >> Just checking. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> Brian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 05:15:48 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:15:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Message-ID: <8952.29043.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to year? Mike --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM > It is my understanding that it's the > same as last year:? Advanced/F3A? > in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. > > Ron VP > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: > > > Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Ron? > > Van Putte > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule > Clarification > > > > For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class,? > each pilot flies two > > flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday.? > Intermediate and > > Advanced are done on Thursday.? The top Master > class pilots fly > > Finals on Friday.? The F3A Prelims are > Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights > > per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on > Friday. > > > > Ron Van Putte > > > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: > > > >> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My > agenda says check > >> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, > Pilots meeting > >> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, > Finals Friday? > >> 17th. > >> > >> > >> On the back it says Monday is practice. > >> > >> > >> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? > Thursday is? > >> open... > >> > >> > >> Just checking. > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Brian > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From kerlock at comcast.net Mon Jul 6 05:25:18 2009 From: kerlock at comcast.net (Mike Hester) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:25:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification References: <8952.29043.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5E1233E44442401FB36F174106DCA783@Sanity> That's what I thought, did something change? -Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to year? Mike --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM > It is my understanding that it's the > same as last year: Advanced/F3A > in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. > > Ron VP > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: > > > Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Ron > > Van Putte > > Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule > Clarification > > > > For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, > each pilot flies two > > flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. > Intermediate and > > Advanced are done on Thursday. The top Master > class pilots fly > > Finals on Friday. The F3A Prelims are > Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights > > per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on > Friday. > > > > Ron Van Putte > > > > On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: > > > >> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My > agenda says check > >> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, > Pilots meeting > >> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, > Finals Friday > >> 17th. > >> > >> > >> On the back it says Monday is practice. > >> > >> > >> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? > Thursday is > >> open... > >> > >> > >> Just checking. > >> > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Brian > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Mon Jul 6 05:27:32 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:27:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification In-Reply-To: <8952.29043.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <8952.29043.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes. Take it up with Dave Guerin. I understand his logic. The Master class is the biggest class. If it is flown in the morning, flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the afternoon schedule. If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can continue as long as there's light and no other competitions are affected. Ron On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > > Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to > year? Mike > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> From: Ron Van Putte >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM >> It is my understanding that it's the >> same as last year: Advanced/F3A >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: >> >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of Ron >>> Van Putte >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule >> Clarification >>> >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, >> each pilot flies two >>> flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. >> Intermediate and >>> Advanced are done on Thursday. The top Master >> class pilots fly >>> Finals on Friday. The F3A Prelims are >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on >> Friday. >>> >>> Ron Van Putte >>> >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: >>> >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My >> agenda says check >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, >> Pilots meeting >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, >> Finals Friday >>>> 17th. >>>> >>>> >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. >>>> >>>> >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? >> Thursday is >>>> open... >>>> >>>> >>>> Just checking. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 05:41:44 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:41:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Message-ID: <249244.78810.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well there is 38 masters and 30 Fai signed up. Not sure where the thinking changes from previous years. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:28 AM Yes.? Take it up with Dave Guerin.? I understand his logic.? The? Master class is the biggest class.? If it is flown in the morning,? flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the afternoon? schedule.? If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can continue as? long as there's light and no other competitions are affected. Ron On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > >? Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to? > year? Mike > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> From: Ron Van Putte >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM >> It is my understanding that it's the >> same as last year:? Advanced/F3A >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: >> >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of Ron >>> Van Putte >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule >> Clarification >>> >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, >> each pilot flies two >>> flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. >> Intermediate and >>> Advanced are done on Thursday.? The top Master >> class pilots fly >>> Finals on Friday.? The F3A Prelims are >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on >> Friday. >>> >>> Ron Van Putte >>> >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: >>> >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My >> agenda says check >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, >> Pilots meeting >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, >> Finals Friday >>>> 17th. >>>> >>>> >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. >>>> >>>> >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? >> Thursday is >>>> open... >>>> >>>> >>>> Just checking. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 05:41:54 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:41:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Message-ID: <321052.78916.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There is 38 Masters and 30 Fai. Not sure where the thinking changes from previous years. Wasn't it about the same two years ago when Masters flew in the am? Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:28 AM Yes.? Take it up with Dave Guerin.? I understand his logic.? The? Master class is the biggest class.? If it is flown in the morning,? flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the afternoon? schedule.? If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can continue as? long as there's light and no other competitions are affected. Ron On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > >? Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to? > year? Mike > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> From: Ron Van Putte >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM >> It is my understanding that it's the >> same as last year:? Advanced/F3A >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: >> >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of Ron >>> Van Putte >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule >> Clarification >>> >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, >> each pilot flies two >>> flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. >> Intermediate and >>> Advanced are done on Thursday.? The top Master >> class pilots fly >>> Finals on Friday.? The F3A Prelims are >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on >> Friday. >>> >>> Ron Van Putte >>> >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: >>> >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My >> agenda says check >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, >> Pilots meeting >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, >> Finals Friday >>>> 17th. >>>> >>>> >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. >>>> >>>> >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? >> Thursday is >>>> open... >>>> >>>> >>>> Just checking. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 05:49:50 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:49:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Message-ID: <544541.96369.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> To be honest I don't really care. Just that this is a change from tradition. I see the logic in it. Thanks, Mike --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 8:28 AM > Yes.? Take it up with Dave > Guerin.? I understand his logic.? The? > Master class is the biggest class.? If it is flown in > the morning,? > flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the > afternoon? > schedule.? If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can > continue as? > long as there's light and no other competitions are > affected. > > Ron > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > > > > >? Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to > rotate from year to? > > year? Mike > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte > wrote: > > > >> From: Ron Van Putte > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule > Clarification > >> To: "General pattern discussion" > >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM > >> It is my understanding that it's the > >> same as last year:? Advanced/F3A > >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the > afternoon. > >> > >> Ron VP > >> > >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: > >> > >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM > this year? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > >> On Behalf Of Ron > >>> Van Putte > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM > >>> To: General pattern discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule > >> Clarification > >>> > >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, > >> each pilot flies two > >>> flights per day on > Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. > >> Intermediate and > >>> Advanced are done on Thursday.? The top > Master > >> class pilots fly > >>> Finals on Friday.? The F3A Prelims are > >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights > >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals > are on > >> Friday. > >>> > >>> Ron Van Putte > >>> > >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young > wrote: > >>> > >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the > schedule. My > >> agenda says check > >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes > 13-15, > >> Pilots meeting > >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting > the 16th, > >> Finals Friday > >>>> 17th. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals > Friday? > >> Thursday is > >>>> open... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Just checking. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> Brian > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ > >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Jul 6 05:59:15 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:59:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB785@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Keep in mind that a masters flight takes several minutes longer than an FAI flight. An extra 2-3 min per flight is another hour to 2 hours, and 8 extra guys is another 80 min. It adds up fast. Doesn't leave much room for error. I'd be good either way. I'm not sure there's an advantage, its just nice to know what to expect. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Jul 06 09:41:53 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification There is 38 Masters and 30 Fai. Not sure where the thinking changes from previous years. Wasn't it about the same two years ago when Masters flew in the am? Chris --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:28 AM Yes. Take it up with Dave Guerin. I understand his logic. The Master class is the biggest class. If it is flown in the morning, flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the afternoon schedule. If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can continue as long as there's light and no other competitions are affected. Ron On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > > Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to > year? Mike > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> From: Ron Van Putte >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM >> It is my understanding that it's the >> same as last year: Advanced/F3A >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: >> >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of Ron >>> Van Putte >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule >> Clarification >>> >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, >> each pilot flies two >>> flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. >> Intermediate and >>> Advanced are done on Thursday. The top Master >> class pilots fly >>> Finals on Friday. The F3A Prelims are >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on >> Friday. >>> >>> Ron Van Putte >>> >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: >>> >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My >> agenda says check >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, >> Pilots meeting >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, >> Finals Friday >>>> 17th. >>>> >>>> >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. >>>> >>>> >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? >> Thursday is >>>> open... >>>> >>>> >>>> Just checking. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2212 - Release Date: 07/02/09 05:54:00 From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 06:05:26 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:05:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Message-ID: <463889.97974.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Seeing as this is my second year going, I don't know that much obviously about it. How did it work before with Masters flying the am? Did Masters run over? Just curious as it seems like we are down on pilots from last year. Not sure about how many pilots there were 2 years ago.. Thanks! Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:55 AM Keep in mind that a masters flight takes several minutes longer than an FAI flight.? An extra 2-3 min per flight is another hour to 2 hours, and 8 extra guys is another 80 min.? It adds up fast. Doesn't leave much room for error. I'd be good either way. I'm not sure there's an advantage, its just nice to know what to expect. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Jul 06 09:41:53 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification There is 38 Masters and 30 Fai. Not sure where the thinking changes from previous years. Wasn't it about the same two years ago when Masters flew in the am? Chris --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:28 AM Yes.? Take it up with Dave Guerin.? I understand his logic.? The? Master class is the biggest class.? If it is flown in the morning,? flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the afternoon? schedule.? If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can continue as? long as there's light and no other competitions are affected. Ron On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > >? Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to? > year? Mike > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> From: Ron Van Putte >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM >> It is my understanding that it's the >> same as last year:? Advanced/F3A >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: >> >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of Ron >>> Van Putte >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule >> Clarification >>> >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, >> each pilot flies two >>> flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. >> Intermediate and >>> Advanced are done on Thursday.? The top Master >> class pilots fly >>> Finals on Friday.? The F3A Prelims are >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on >> Friday. >>> >>> Ron Van Putte >>> >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: >>> >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My >> agenda says check >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, >> Pilots meeting >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, >> Finals Friday >>>> 17th. >>>> >>>> >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. >>>> >>>> >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? >> Thursday is >>>> open... >>>> >>>> >>>> Just checking. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2212 - Release Date: 07/02/09 05:54:00 ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tim.Pascoe at ec.gc.ca Mon Jul 6 07:18:44 2009 From: Tim.Pascoe at ec.gc.ca (Pascoe,Tim [Burlington]) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:18:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 1.40 Back-plate Message-ID: Anyone know if the back-plate for the 1.40rx can be purchased independently of the pump? I broke the needle assembly off mine in a catastrophic crash on the weekend. I know I can probably get a remote needle, but thought I'd see if the back-plate was available first. I haven't searched too hard yet, but I've only been able to find it including the pump so far. If not, anyone have one they'd like to part with? Thanks, Tim Pascoe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Jul 6 07:29:18 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (Chris Fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:29:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 1.40 Back-plate Message-ID: <518503.3560.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a pump somewhere. I will look for it when I get home. Chris Sent from my iPhone On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:18 AM, "Pascoe,Tim [Burlington]" wrote: Anyone know if the back-plate for the 1.40rx can be purchased independently of the pump? I broke the needle assembly off mine in a catastrophic crash on the weekend. I know I can probably get a remote needle, but thought I?d see if the back-plate was available first. I haven?t searched too hard yet, but I?ve only been able to find it including the pump so far. If not, anyone have one they?d like to part with? Thanks, Tim Pascoe _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Jul 6 07:48:27 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:48:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification In-Reply-To: <463889.97974.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <463889.97974.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1C19A810-41B2-4746-A817-4939D3964F49@cox.net> Yes, the Master class ran until almost 1:00 P.M. one year and we had to let the afternoon session slide about an hour to let the site personnel have time for a break. Also keep in mind that weather can disrupt the schedule and fewer competitors in the morning session gives the event director some "wiggle room" on the schedule. Ron VP On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:05 AM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > Seeing as this is my second year going, I don't know that much > obviously about it. How did it work before with Masters flying the > am? Did Masters run over? Just curious as it seems like we are down > on pilots from last year. Not sure about how many pilots there were > 2 years ago.. > > Thanks! > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:55 AM > > Keep in mind that a masters flight takes several minutes longer > than an FAI flight. An extra 2-3 min per flight is another hour to > 2 hours, and 8 extra guys is another 80 min. It adds up fast. > > Doesn't leave much room for error. > > I'd be good either way. I'm not sure there's an advantage, its just > nice to know what to expect. > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon Jul 06 09:41:53 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > > There is 38 Masters and 30 Fai. Not sure where the thinking changes > from previous years. Wasn't it about the same two years ago when > Masters flew in the am? > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:28 AM > > > Yes. Take it up with Dave Guerin. I understand his logic. The > Master class is the biggest class. If it is flown in the morning, > flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the afternoon > schedule. If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can continue as > long as there's light and no other competitions are affected. > > Ron > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > > > > > Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to > > year? Mike > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > >> From: Ron Van Putte > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > >> To: "General pattern discussion" > >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM > >> It is my understanding that it's the > >> same as last year: Advanced/F3A > >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. > >> > >> Ron VP > >> > >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: > >> > >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > >> On Behalf Of Ron > >>> Van Putte > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM > >>> To: General pattern discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule > >> Clarification > >>> > >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, > >> each pilot flies two > >>> flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. > >> Intermediate and > >>> Advanced are done on Thursday. The top Master > >> class pilots fly > >>> Finals on Friday. The F3A Prelims are > >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights > >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on > >> Friday. > >>> > >>> Ron Van Putte > >>> > >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: > >>> > >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My > >> agenda says check > >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, > >> Pilots meeting > >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, > >> Finals Friday > >>>> 17th. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? > >> Thursday is > >>>> open... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Just checking. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> Brian > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2212 - Release Date: > 07/02/09 05:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From rickwallace45 at gmail.com Mon Jul 6 07:50:40 2009 From: rickwallace45 at gmail.com (richard wallace) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:50:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 1.40 Back-plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Tim - Another answer is simply to mount a remote needle valve a la the 160 FX; easily mounted to the firewall (or most anywhere else) on a small section of aluminum angle. Works great, and is lots better than $160 for a backplate/pump assy! On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Pascoe,Tim [Burlington] < Tim.Pascoe at ec.gc.ca> wrote: > Anyone know if the back-plate for the 1.40rx can be purchased > independently of the pump? I broke the needle assembly off mine in a > catastrophic crash on the weekend. I know I can probably get a remote > needle, but thought I?d see if the back-plate was available first. I haven?t > searched too hard yet, but I?ve only been able to find it including the pump > so far. > > > > If not, anyone have one they?d like to part with? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim Pascoe > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tim.Pascoe at ec.gc.ca Mon Jul 6 07:58:13 2009 From: Tim.Pascoe at ec.gc.ca (Pascoe,Tim [Burlington]) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:58:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 1.40 Back-plate In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks Richard. As I said, I'll go the remote assembly if I can't find the back-plate sans pump. I suspect that it comes only as a unit, and the remote will ultimately be the way I go. Tim ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of richard wallace Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:51 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 1.40 Back-plate Tim - Another answer is simply to mount a remote needle valve a la the 160 FX; easily mounted to the firewall (or most anywhere else) on a small section of aluminum angle. Works great, and is lots better than $160 for a backplate/pump assy! On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Pascoe,Tim [Burlington] wrote: Anyone know if the back-plate for the 1.40rx can be purchased independently of the pump? I broke the needle assembly off mine in a catastrophic crash on the weekend. I know I can probably get a remote needle, but thought I'd see if the back-plate was available first. I haven't searched too hard yet, but I've only been able to find it including the pump so far. If not, anyone have one they'd like to part with? Thanks, Tim Pascoe _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob at koolsoft.com Mon Jul 6 13:42:40 2009 From: rob at koolsoft.com (Robert L. Beaubien) Date: Mon, 06 Jul 2009 21:42:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] BARCS Contest pre-registration Message-ID: BARCS Contest in Richmond, CA pre-registration is open. Contest Flyer http://www.patternflying.net/NewsDetailPage.aspx?ID=29 Pre-registration form http://www.patternflying.net/TempRegistrationPage.aspx Hope to see you there! - Robert Beaubien - NSRCA, District 7 Webmaster - "No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pbrine at uoguelph.ca Tue Jul 7 13:11:29 2009 From: pbrine at uoguelph.ca (Paul Brine) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:11:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] List functioning Message-ID: <134857829.1334661247001087202.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Is the list functioning? I haven't received any emails or been able to access the archives and emails sent to "mail-owner" bounce. Paul From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 13:17:50 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:17:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] List functioning In-Reply-To: <134857829.1334661247001087202.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> References: <134857829.1334661247001087202.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <3454543c0907071417h78e8a496u602e43c69b192f88@mail.gmail.com> Probably quiet due to the holiday and folks preparing for the Nats. On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Paul Brine wrote: > Is the list functioning? > > I haven't received any emails or been able to access the archives and > emails sent to "mail-owner" bounce. > > Paul > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Tue Jul 7 13:24:45 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:24:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <4A4D671F.1010007@roadrunner.com> Message-ID: <1516690340.1210061247001884419.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Lynn, I would like to go to the Torrey Pines Glideport first.? Probably I will be free from around 3 PM that day.? I am not sure how long will take from la Jolla to your place.? I could do it if makes sense for you.? Let me know. Thanks, Vince ----- Original Message ----- From: " rclen " To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:04:15 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: > > Hello all, > > ? > > I am going to San Diego on Sunday 12. ?I will have the afternoon to > visit. ?I just would like to see a RC field close to San Diego. > > ? > > Thanks, > > ? > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org > http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion Hello Vince: ?If you should come up to the Riverside area or LA area ? and I may be of some help let me know. ?Lynn Burks ?wk ?cell 818-254-6534, cell 909-802-5654 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Tue Jul 7 13:29:05 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:29:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <1516690340.1210061247001884419.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <482378240.1211941247002144386.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Opps ,??I am sorry.? I was planing to send this e-mail directly to Lynn.? In any case, looks like everything is working fine and everybody is trying to get ready for the Nats . but me. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vicente \"Vince\" Bortone " < vicenterc @comcast.net> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 4:24:44 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego Lynn, I would like to go to the Torrey Pines Glideport first.? Probably I will be free from around 3 PM that day.? I am not sure how long will take from la Jolla to your place.? I could do it if makes sense for you.? Let me know. Thanks, Vince ----- Original Message ----- From: " rclen " To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:04:15 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: > > Hello all, > > ? > > I am going to San Diego on Sunday 12. ?I will have the afternoon to > visit. ?I just would like to see a RC field close to San Diego. > > ? > > Thanks, > > ? > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org > http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion Hello Vince: ?If you should come up to the Riverside area or LA area ? and I may be of some help let me know. ?Lynn Burks ?wk ?cell 818-254-6534, cell 909-802-5654 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Jul 7 13:37:09 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:37:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <1516690340.1210061247001884419.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <4A4D671F.1010007@roadrunner.com> <1516690340.1210061247001884419.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3454543c0907071437l2f270c97ndd845918f1a9e4d6@mail.gmail.com> Vince, Plan on a couple of hours drive from La Jolla to Los Angeles or a little shorter if you take the 15 up toward Riverside. If you only plan to be available at 3pm to visit fields then I would suggest that you stick close to San Diego - Torrey Pines area. The traffic in LA can get pretty horrendous... -Derek On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Vicente "Vince" Bortone < vicenterc at comcast.net> wrote: > Lynn, > > > > I would like to go to the Torrey Pines Glideport first. Probably I will be > free from around 3 PM that day. I am not sure how long will take from la > Jolla to your place. I could do it if makes sense for you. Let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Vince > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rclen" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:04:15 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > I am going to San Diego on Sunday 12. I will have the afternoon to > > visit. I just would like to see a RC field close to San Diego. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > Hello Vince: If you should come up to the Riverside area or LA area > and I may be of some help let me know. Lynn Burks wk cell > 818-254-6534, cell 909-802-5654 > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Tue Jul 7 15:28:06 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:28:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Message-ID: <004f01c9ff5a$8f153100$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> The list has been lacking in a good discussion (argument?) or a while so I thought I would toss something out now that many of us are getting ready go to the Nats. We were discussing scoring at the Nats and I wonder how many of those going realize that we do not have equal judge exposure when selecting the finalists for Masters and semi finalists for FAI. We used to have that when we had to take one flight from each day but when that changed to any 4 of 6 we lost equal exposure. Just wondering if folks realized this. John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Tue Jul 7 15:58:24 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:58:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats In-Reply-To: <004f01c9ff5a$8f153100$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <004f01c9ff5a$8f153100$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: John and I had a discussion about this after he had a discussion about it with Mike Harrison. We can get equal exposure in one session IF the two sets of judges observe the flights of all 38 Master class pilots. Let's see now 38 pilots times 10 minutes average per flight equals 380 minutes. That's six hours and 20 minutes. Hmmm. Kinda hard to cram that into a four-hour afternoon session and the pilots will each only have two flights. Well, let's only fly four four hours one day and finish the rounds the next day. Then we can start on rounds three and four and finish them the next day. OK, we have equal exposure for all pilots and we've flown for three days. Wait a minute - pilots will have only flown four rounds over three days! Now the reason for the matrix method becomes apparent. With it, the pilots get equal exposure to judges each day, BUT not all pilots are scored by all judges every day. Compromise is involved to obtain six flights for all pilots. Ron Van Putte On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:27 PM, John Fuqua wrote: > The list has been lacking in a good discussion (argument?) or a > while so I thought I would toss something out now that many of us > are getting ready go to the Nats. We were discussing scoring at > the Nats and I wonder how many of those going realize that we do > not have equal judge exposure when selecting the finalists for > Masters and semi finalists for FAI. We used to have that when we > had to take one flight from each day but when that changed to any 4 > of 6 we lost equal exposure. Just wondering if folks realized this. > > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vicenterc at comcast.net Tue Jul 7 16:16:06 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:16:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Message-ID: <467320092.1281781247012166051.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Well, we need some discussion.? Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details.? My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser.? I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser.? Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals).? Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rclen123 at roadrunner.com Tue Jul 7 16:16:47 2009 From: rclen123 at roadrunner.com (rclen) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 00:16:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego In-Reply-To: <1516690340.1210061247001884419.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1516690340.1210061247001884419.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A53E578.9080209@roadrunner.com> Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: > > Lynn, > > > > I would like to go to the Torrey Pines Glideport first. Probably I > will be free from around 3 PM that day. I am not sure how long will > take from la Jolla to your place. I could do it if makes sense for > you. Let me know. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Vince > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rclen" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Thursday, July 2, 2009 9:04:15 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Pattern Fields in San Diego > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > I am going to San Diego on Sunday 12. I will have the afternoon to > > visit. I just would like to see a RC field close to San Diego. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > Hello Vince: If you should come up to the Riverside area or LA area > and I may be of some help let me know. Lynn Burks wk cell > 818-254-6534, cell 909-802-5654 > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Hey Vince: Sure i could meet you in La Jolla in the afternoon and we could drive up to Torrey Pines if you like. Lynn ps send me your cell phone number and I will call you. From getterflash at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 17:12:16 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:12:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats In-Reply-To: References: <004f01c9ff5a$8f153100$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <377495.46898.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm going to attend anyway. My performance will likely give a tremendous advantage to whoever flies after me. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:57:37 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats John and I had a discussion about this after he had a discussion about it with Mike Harrison. We can get equal exposure in one session IF the two sets of judges observe the flights of all 38 Master class pilots. Let's see now 38 pilots times 10 minutes average per flight equals 380 minutes. That's six hours and 20 minutes. Hmmm. Kinda hard to cram that into a four-hour afternoon session and the pilots will each only have two flights. Well, let's only fly four four hours one day and finish the rounds the next day. Then we can start on rounds three and four and finish them the next day. OK, we have equal exposure for all pilots and we've flown for three days. Wait a minute - pilots will have only flown four rounds over three days! Now the reason for the matrix method becomes apparent. With it, the pilots get equal exposure to judges each day, BUT not all pilots are scored by all judges every day. Compromise is involved to obtain six flights for all pilots. Ron Van Putte On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:27 PM, John Fuqua wrote: > The list has been lacking in a good discussion (argument?) or a while so I thought I would toss something out now that many of us are getting ready go to the Nats. We were discussing scoring at the Nats and I wonder how many of those going realize that we do not have equal judge exposure when selecting the finalists for Masters and semi finalists for FAI. We used to have that when we had to take one flight from each day but when that changed to any 4 of 6 we lost equal exposure. Just wondering if folks realized this. > > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 17:18:22 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (Chris Fitzsimmons) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:18:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Message-ID: <386038.79705.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please put me on the list to fly after Bob! LOL Chris Sent from my iPhone On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:12 PM, Bob Kane wrote: I'm going to attend anyway. My performance will likely give a tremendous advantage to whoever flies after me. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:57:37 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats John and I had a discussion about this after he had a discussion about it with Mike Harrison. We can get equal exposure in one session IF the two sets of judges observe the flights of all 38 Master class pilots. Let's see now 38 pilots times 10 minutes average per flight equals 380 minutes. That's six hours and 20 minutes. Hmmm. Kinda hard to cram that into a four-hour afternoon session and the pilots will each only have two flights. Well, let's only fly four four hours one day and finish the rounds the next day. Then we can start on rounds three and four and finish them the next day. OK, we have equal exposure for all pilots and we've flown for three days. Wait a minute - pilots will have only flown four rounds over three days! Now the reason for the matrix method becomes apparent. With it, the pilots get equal exposure to judges each day, BUT not all pilots are scored by all judges every day. Compromise is involved to obtain six flights for all pilots. Ron Van Putte On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:27 PM, John Fuqua wrote: The list has been lacking in a good discussion (argument?) or a while so I thought I would toss something out now that many of us are getting ready go to the Nats. We were discussing scoring at the Nats and I wonder how many of those going realize that we do not have equal judge exposure when selecting the finalists for Masters and semi finalists for FAI. We used to have that when we had to take one flight from each day but when that changed to any 4 of 6 we lost equal exposure. Just wondering if folks realized this. John _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Tue Jul 7 17:27:45 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 01:27:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats In-Reply-To: <386038.79705.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <386038.79705.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F2B346F-F65E-4FE7-B27B-D4055B528E12@cox.net> No! Me! Ron VP On Jul 7, 2009, at 8:18 PM, Chris Fitzsimmons wrote: > > Please put me on the list to fly after Bob! LOL > > Chris > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:12 PM, Bob Kane wrote: > > > I'm going to attend anyway. My performance will likely give a > tremendous advantage to whoever flies after me. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ron Van Putte > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:57:37 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats > > John and I had a discussion about this after he had a discussion > about it with Mike Harrison. > > We can get equal exposure in one session IF the two sets of judges > observe the flights of all 38 Master class pilots. Let's see now > 38 pilots times 10 minutes average per flight equals 380 minutes. > That's six hours and 20 minutes. Hmmm. Kinda hard to cram that > into a four-hour afternoon session and the pilots will each only > have two flights. > > Well, let's only fly four four hours one day and finish the rounds > the next day. Then we can start on rounds three and four and > finish them the next day. OK, we have equal exposure for all > pilots and we've flown for three days. Wait a minute - pilots will > have only flown four rounds over three days! > > Now the reason for the matrix method becomes apparent. With it, > the pilots get equal exposure to judges each day, BUT not all > pilots are scored by all judges every day. Compromise is involved > to obtain six flights for all pilots. > > Ron Van Putte > > > On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:27 PM, John Fuqua wrote: > > The list has been lacking in a good discussion (argument?) or a > while so I thought I would toss something out now that many of us > are getting ready go to the Nats. We were discussing scoring at > the Nats and I wonder how many of those going realize that we do > not have equal judge exposure when selecting the finalists for > Masters and semi finalists for FAI. We used to have that when we > had to take one flight from each day but when that changed to any 4 > of 6 we lost equal exposure. Just wondering if folks realized this. > > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 18:05:59 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:05:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Message-ID: <756386.13021.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nah Ron. You get to fly on the other flight line in front of different judges. Chris ? ? ? --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 6:27 PM No!? Me! Ron VP On Jul 7, 2009, at 8:18 PM, Chris Fitzsimmons wrote: > > Please put me on the list to fly after Bob! LOL > > Chris > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:12 PM, Bob Kane wrote: > > > I'm going to attend anyway.? My performance will likely give a tremendous advantage to whoever flies after me. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ron Van Putte > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:57:37 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats > > John and I had a discussion about this after he had a discussion about it with Mike Harrison. > > We can get equal exposure in one session IF the two sets of judges observe the flights of all 38 Master class pilots.? Let's see now 38 pilots times 10 minutes average per flight equals 380 minutes.? That's six hours and 20 minutes.? Hmmm.? Kinda hard to cram that into a four-hour afternoon session and the pilots will each only have two flights. > > Well, let's only fly four four hours one day and finish the rounds the next day.? Then we can start on rounds three and four and finish them the next day.? OK, we have equal exposure for all pilots and we've flown for three days.? Wait a minute - pilots will have only flown four rounds over three days! > > Now the reason for the matrix method becomes apparent.? With it, the pilots get equal exposure to judges each day, BUT not all pilots are scored by all judges every day.? Compromise? is involved to obtain six flights for all pilots. > > Ron Van Putte > > > On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:27 PM, John Fuqua wrote: > > The list has been lacking in a good discussion (argument?) or a while so I thought I would toss something out now that many of us are getting ready go to the Nats.???We were discussing scoring at the Nats and I wonder how many of those going realize that we do not have equal judge exposure when selecting the finalists for Masters and semi finalists for FAI.???We used to have that when we had to take one flight from each day but when that changed to any 4 of 6 we lost equal exposure.???Just wondering if folks realized this. > > > > John > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 18:07:01 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:07:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses In-Reply-To: <467320092.1281781247012166051.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <467320092.1281781247012166051.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <228383.42242.qm@web35201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, I dont know about the bifocal contacts?but we had a guy here?get the lense implants. His reports so far have been favorable. I geuss this is what you get when cataracts are removed, I suspect many in the model plane sport will need cataracts removed anyway so take advantage early. Brian ________________________________ From: "Vicente "Vince" Bortone" To: "NSRCA, NSRCA" Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:16:06 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Well, we need some discussion.? Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details.? My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser.? I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser.? Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals).? Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. ? Thanks, ? Vicente "Vince" Bortone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 18:13:39 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:13:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats - Groupings for Masters F3a In-Reply-To: <4F2B346F-F65E-4FE7-B27B-D4055B528E12@cox.net> References: <386038.79705.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4F2B346F-F65E-4FE7-B27B-D4055B528E12@cox.net> Message-ID: <752112.29923.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was wondering how the different groups are filled, seems like it used to be frequency based. Thanks Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Tue Jul 7 18:30:01 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:30:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats - Groupings for Masters F3a In-Reply-To: <752112.29923.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <386038.79705.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4F2B346F-F65E-4FE7-B27B-D4055B528E12@cox.net> <752112.29923.qm@web35207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: They ARE frequency based. However, the top eight pilots from last year are seeded, so that two are in each of the four groups. That's why it is necessary to have a primary and a secondary frequency on the entry form. The event director may tell an entrant that he's on his secondary frequency, so that the seeding will work. 2.4 GHz spread spectrum radios make it easier for the event director to seed the top pilots. Ron Van Putte On Jul 7, 2009, at 9:13 PM, brian young wrote: > I was wondering how the different groups are filled, seems like it > used to be frequency based. > > Thanks > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From bob at toprudder.com Tue Jul 7 19:43:24 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:43:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Message-ID: <503584.92789.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I know someone that got "bifocal" contacts. He said that actually one lens is for closeup, the other is for distance. He said he got used to it. IMHO, it is totally inadequate for flying pattern, since only one eye will be able to focus on the plane. ? If I went the contact route, I would get both lenses focused for distance vision, and keep a pair of reading glasses handy. I suffer from hyperopia (far sighted) and presbyopia?so I wear bifocal glasses. I made sure the eye doctor understood my specific need for flying. I'm happy with what they gave me.? ? On another note, I decided to get one of the sporty sunglasses with separate clear corrective lenses and replaceable tinted lenses. It is the "Rudy Project" brand, and I am very unsatisfied with the results. There is a lot of chromatic aberration in the corrective lenses, and the tinted lenses just makes it worse. The image is only sharp in the very center. Cheap glass, IMHO. ? Bob R. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: #yiv1054848492 p {margin:0;} Well, we need some discussion.? Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details.? My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser.? I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser.? Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals).? Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. ? Thanks, ? Vicente "Vince" Bortone -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Tue Jul 7 21:17:44 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:17:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses In-Reply-To: <467320092.1281781247012166051.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <467320092.1281781247012166051.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Vince, I was diagnosed with Diabetes in August 2007 and my vision went south I could see my son on the football field or even his number on his jersey. I just followed his position and asked my wife when he took the field. It has steadied up though to the point I did get contacts. My situation is a bit unique in that my eye sight prior to was about 20/15 in both eyes. I did get prescription contacts that are bi-focal and both eyes are the same contact. Now I can't see anything up close and the prescription is the weakest he could find for near. I didn't like any of the other standard contacts because I couldn't see as far as I liked to see the plane. With the contacts I do have I see great from about 10 feet and beyond. Very crisp and detailed even at long distances well past the box. I use 1.25 reading glasses for seeing within 3 feet. I concede 3 to 10 feet away as things are blurred with my contacts. Now this contact trial went on for about 2 weeks and I'm now referred to as a special case.VBG. Larry Diamond _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:16 PM To: NSRCA, NSRCA Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Well, we need some discussion. Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details. My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser. I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser. Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals). Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 7 22:21:11 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:21:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification Message-ID: <357034.58245.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So Ron, let me ask you this. The personnel had to slide an hour. What's the difference in the long run? The flight time for Masters and FAI is still the same overall. If FAI started an hour later, what's the big deal? I see that last year FAI had 35 people (and flew first), and we didn't run over much that I can remember. Masters this year has 38 (and has to fly first). I don't get it. Don't get me wrong, I will fly in the afternoon wind with no problem again this year. I just don't understand why it is different than previous years. Perhaps FAI can't fly in the wind? ?? Just kidding guys! Don't take that seriously. You guys will stomp on my next year I'm sure! lol I know that you guys are the sickest pilots on the planet!!!!!!!! Just someone explain the logic that we had 35 FAI last year fly first, and this year 38 (if they all show) Masters pilots can't fly first. This is good discussion IMO. Only reason I am keeping it going! lol Thanks! Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 8:49 AM Yes, the Master class ran until almost 1:00 P.M. one year and we had to let the afternoon session slide about an hour to let the site personnel have time for a break.? Also keep in mind that weather can disrupt the schedule and fewer competitors in the morning session gives the event director some "wiggle room" on the schedule. Ron VP On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:05 AM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > Seeing as this is my second year going, I don't know that much obviously about it. How did it work before with Masters flying the am? Did Masters run over? Just curious as it seems like we are down on pilots from last year. Not sure about how many pilots there were 2 years ago.. > > Thanks! > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:55 AM > > Keep in mind that a masters flight takes several minutes longer than an FAI flight.? An extra 2-3 min per flight is another hour to 2 hours, and 8 extra guys is another 80 min.? It adds up fast. > > Doesn't leave much room for error. > > I'd be good either way. I'm not sure there's an advantage, its just nice to know what to expect. > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon Jul 06 09:41:53 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > > There is 38 Masters and 30 Fai. Not sure where the thinking changes from previous years. Wasn't it about the same two years ago when Masters flew in the am? > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 7/6/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, July 6, 2009, 6:28 AM > > > Yes.? Take it up with Dave Guerin.? I understand his logic.? The > Master class is the biggest class.? If it is flown in the morning, > flying can (and has) run into the afternoon, disrupting the afternoon > schedule.? If it's flown in the afternoon, flying can continue as > long as there's light and no other competitions are affected. > > Ron > > On Jul 6, 2009, at 8:15 AM, mike mueller wrote: > > > > >? Ron isn't it traditional for this schedule to rotate from year to > > year? Mike > > > > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > >> From: Ron Van Putte > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule Clarification > >> To: "General pattern discussion" > >> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 9:50 PM > >> It is my understanding that it's the > >> same as last year:? Advanced/F3A > >> in the morning and Intermediate/Master in the afternoon. > >> > >> Ron VP > >> > >> On Jul 5, 2009, at 9:23 PM, Dave wrote: > >> > >>> Just one more......which classes are AM/PM this year? > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Dave > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > >> On Behalf Of Ron > >>> Van Putte > >>> Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 9:52 PM > >>> To: General pattern discussion > >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Schedule > >> Clarification > >>> > >>> For Intermediate, Advanced and Master class, > >> each pilot flies two > >>> flights per day on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday. > >> Intermediate and > >>> Advanced are done on Thursday.? The top Master > >> class pilots fly > >>> Finals on Friday.? The F3A Prelims are > >> Tuesday/Wednesday (two flights > >>> per day); Semifinals are on Thursday ; Finals are on > >> Friday. > >>> > >>> Ron Van Putte > >>> > >>> On Jul 5, 2009, at 8:38 PM, brian young wrote: > >>> > >>>> I was wanting a clarification on the schedule. My > >> agenda says check > >>>> in on Monday 13, Prelims begin all classes 13-15, > >> Pilots meeting > >>>> Monday 13th at 5 PM. FAI Unkowns Meeting the 16th, > >> Finals Friday > >>>> 17th. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On the back it says Monday is practice. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> So prelims are Tuesday - Wednesday? Finals Friday? > >> Thursday is > >>>> open... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Just checking. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Thanks > >>>> > >>>> Brian > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.1/2212 - Release Date: 07/02/09 05:54:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob at koolsoft.com Wed Jul 8 08:29:34 2009 From: rob at koolsoft.com (Robert L. Beaubien) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:29:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Getting rid of some stuff Message-ID: Hey all, Just getting rid of some unused items. Futaba R6014FS (2.4Ghz) receiver - $120 Futaba R5014DPS (72Mhz) receiver - $75 Futaba 6EXHP Transmitter - $65 Free shipping on these items. If interested, contact me off list ( rbeaubien at koolsoft.com ). Thanx, - Robert Beaubien - NSRCA, District 7 Webmaster - "No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ksutherland at hughes.net Wed Jul 8 08:36:43 2009 From: ksutherland at hughes.net (ksutherland) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:36:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Replacement TX Battery JR 9303 Message-ID: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simestd at netexpress.com Wed Jul 8 08:47:38 2009 From: simestd at netexpress.com (Tom Simes) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:47:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] List functioning In-Reply-To: <134857829.1334661247001087202.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> References: <134857829.1334661247001087202.JavaMail.root@erie.cs.uoguelph.ca> Message-ID: <20090708073254.2cfdee29.simestd@netexpress.com> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 17:11:27 -0400 (EDT) Paul Brine wrote: > Is the list functioning? > > I haven't received any emails or been able to access the archives and > emails sent to "mail-owner" bounce. Can you give me an example of the bounce message, or at least the complete e-mail address that is generating bounces? I did just find that the web server (apache) process on the list server had died for some reason and I've restarted it so you should be able to see the archives now. The web server is a separate process from the mailing list software that distributes messages, so the list wasn't down - just the web front end for the archives. Anyway, sorry about that, it's more motiviation for me to set up remote monitoring of the services on that box. While I'm in there, I'll also upgrade to the latest point revision of the mailman software so there may be a few start/stop cycles coming up but I'll try to keep interruptions to a minimum. -- Tom ====================================================================== "Z-80 system stack overflow. Shut 'er down Scotty, the system's sucking mud" - Error message on TRS 80 Model-16B Tom Simes simestd at netexpress.com ====================================================================== From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Wed Jul 8 08:48:02 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:48:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment In-Reply-To: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Wed Jul 8 08:49:16 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:49:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Replacement TX Battery JR 9303 In-Reply-To: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> Message-ID: <4A54CE0A.5080502@cox.net> ksutherland wrote: > Could you guys suggest a good replacement battery for JR 9303? > Something in the 2500-3000 mah range . I would like to be able to > order it with the correct plug on it so I don't have to try to solder > it myself. I'd go with a 2,000 mAh Nimh made with the Sanyo Eneloop cells from No BS Battereis: http://www.hangtimes.com/txpacks.html http://us.sanyo.com/batteries I know the capacity is less than you wanted, but they are great TX pack cells. Charge them like a NiMH but they retain their charge on the shelf like a lipo. 90% charge retention after 6 months!! I have put them in a couple of my transmitters and they work very well. From jnhiller at earthlink.net Wed Jul 8 08:50:37 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:50:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 6 ft balsa Message-ID: Help: I've seen 6 foot balsa advertised but don't recall where. Jim Hiller From tony at radiosouthrc.com Wed Jul 8 09:15:21 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:15:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Replacement TX Battery JR 9303 In-Reply-To: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> Message-ID: <62F511CE185D454CB45BCFCA8DB09765@Tony> I have a 2700 NiMH with the correct plug. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of ksutherland Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:19 PM To: NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Replacement TX Battery JR 9303 Could you guys suggest a good replacement battery for JR 9303? Something in the 2500-3000 mah range . I would like to be able to order it with the correct plug on it so I don't have to try to solder it myself. Thanks Kirk -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacontrera at earthlink.net Wed Jul 8 10:09:08 2009 From: jacontrera at earthlink.net (John C) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:09:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Replacement TX Battery JR 9303 Message-ID: <30028874.1247076547258.JavaMail.root@mswamui-chipeau.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 8 10:25:49 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:25:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Message-ID: <529038.58410.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Whatever you do, do NOT even consider laser if you are not a good candidate. I was told at first that I wasn't a good candidate, then the doc took another measurement (I guess that happens when your check clears) and I was told that I would be OK. Everything was lovely for a year then went TERRIBLY wrong ?Now, due to a permanent destabilization of my eye?I am barely functional with glasses as my perscription changes monthly and can only see well enough to fly in special hard contacts that help maintain the integrity of my eyeball.? ? They are much less comfortable than?they sound and are prone to pop out or irritate me if the?slightest?bit of water or?breeze gets in my?eyes (no way there would be rain or wind at a contest)! I was told that I would have had much better vision with soft comfortable contacts if I had not done the laser procedure. My only other option is a non FDA approved procedure called collagen cross linking! Not effing likely!!! ? My advice, see a good eye doctor (not a mall optometrist) and have them fit you for some good?soft contacts. You will be?surprised at how well they work. ? Anthony? --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses To: "NSRCA, NSRCA" Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 8:16 PM #yiv611941355 p {margin:0;} Well, we need some discussion.? Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details.? My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser.? I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser.? Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals).? Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. ? Thanks, ? Vicente "Vince" Bortone -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 8 10:37:47 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:37:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Message-ID: <499708.50053.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, I worked very closely with my eye doctor to meet my needs. I described what I do and asked for a set recently that is designed to focus my vision for the average pattern depth. I have only used them for one contest / flying session but I am very happy with them. I can't read a newspaper inside arms length but at 100 to 150?they are great! A cheap pair of 100 power Wal Mart readers solve the reading problem. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 11:43 PM I know someone that got "bifocal" contacts. He said that actually one lens is for closeup, the other is for distance. He said he got used to it. IMHO, it is totally inadequate for flying pattern, since only one eye will be able to focus on the plane. ? If I went the contact route, I would get both lenses focused for distance vision, and keep a pair of reading glasses handy. I suffer from hyperopia (far sighted) and presbyopia?so I wear bifocal glasses. I made sure the eye doctor understood my specific need for flying. I'm happy with what they gave me.? ? On another note, I decided to get one of the sporty sunglasses with separate clear corrective lenses and replaceable tinted lenses. It is the "Rudy Project" brand, and I am very unsatisfied with the results. There is a lot of chromatic aberration in the corrective lenses, and the tinted lenses just makes it worse. The image is only sharp in the very center. Cheap glass, IMHO. ? Bob R. --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: #yiv1101923808 #yiv1054848492 p {margin:0;} Well, we need some discussion.? Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details.? My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser.? I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser.? Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals).? Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. ? Thanks, ? Vicente "Vince" Bortone -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lagrue at hotmail.com Wed Jul 8 10:53:47 2009 From: lagrue at hotmail.com (JEREMY CHINN) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:53:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses In-Reply-To: <529038.58410.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <529038.58410.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One of my first jobs out of college was as the marketing manager for a contact lens distributor and manufacturer. That was a pretty fair number of years ago now..... I'm also a bifocal wearer since I was a pre-teen. If memory serves me right, translating contact lenses are made in much the same fashion as progressive eyeglasses lens. Gravity causes the contact to stay oriented on your eye, and the lens locates itself through the curve of your eye and the location of your lower eyelid... They are definitely a neat little piece of technology. This link is a pretty good description of them - http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/bifocals.htm It may be worth a try for you. They don't work well for everyone. Surgical procedures do have a lot of horror stories with them, but I've not seen the data that would indicate that such issues are common. I'd think the FDA would pull the procedure if it was heavily failure prone. I do know that the company I worked for made the 'stabilizing lenses' that Anthony mentioned below, and we sold them pretty regularly. You mention your wife wants you to do this. I'm all for keeping the wife happy, but at the end of the day, they are your eyes. Do you want to do this? Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 11:25:47 -0700 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Whatever you do, do NOT even consider laser if you are not a good candidate. I was told at first that I wasn't a good candidate, then the doc took another measurement (I guess that happens when your check clears) and I was told that I would be OK. Everything was lovely for a year then went TERRIBLY wrong Now, due to a permanent destabilization of my eye I am barely functional with glasses as my perscription changes monthly and can only see well enough to fly in special hard contacts that help maintain the integrity of my eyeball. They are much less comfortable than they sound and are prone to pop out or irritate me if the slightest bit of water or breeze gets in my eyes (no way there would be rain or wind at a contest)! I was told that I would have had much better vision with soft comfortable contacts if I had not done the laser procedure. My only other option is a non FDA approved procedure called collagen cross linking! Not effing likely!!! My advice, see a good eye doctor (not a mall optometrist) and have them fit you for some good soft contacts. You will be surprised at how well they work. Anthony --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses To: "NSRCA, NSRCA" Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 8:16 PM Well, we need some discussion. Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details. My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser. I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser. Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals). Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 11:02:47 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:02:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <716006.74711.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is this offer extended to Stylus flyers? ;) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 12:47:57 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Wed Jul 8 11:04:40 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:04:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment In-Reply-To: <716006.74711.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <716006.74711.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A62@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> LOL?sure. I?ll bring a back up Stylus too. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 3:03 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Is this offer extended to Stylus flyers? ;) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 12:47:57 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Snaproll4 at aol.com Wed Jul 8 11:19:05 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:19:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS140 For Sale Message-ID: I have a NIB OS 140 RX with a Mac Header(#4745) with a 2.25" rise. Price of $350.00 includes shipping in US. Can bring to NATS. Please contact me off list. Thanks, Steve Miller **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geobet4 at verizon.net Wed Jul 8 11:19:21 2009 From: geobet4 at verizon.net (GEORGE KENNIE) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:19:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <90E70E221F144F1C933DDB5532444139@george15cf36d8> A buddy of mine showed up last weekend with the new radio and to say that I was favorably impressed would be an understatement. He's not used to the HEFT of a quality unit yet, but I suspect he'll adjust. Really nice offering ! G. ----- Original Message ----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Wed Jul 8 11:39:50 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:39:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Replacement TX Battery JR 9303 In-Reply-To: <4A54CE0A.5080502@cox.net> Message-ID: <1833065862.1586931247081989330.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I am using the Sanyo Eneloop cells also for the TX.? They are just amazing.? I can fly at least 1 month (on 2.4) without charging. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 11:49:14 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Replacement TX Battery JR 9303 ksutherland wrote: > Could you guys suggest a good replacement battery for JR 9303? > ?Something in the 2500-3000 mah ?range . I would like to be able to > order it with the correct ?plug on it so I don't have to try to solder > it myself. ? I'd go with a 2,000 mAh Nimh made with the Sanyo Eneloop cells from No BS Battereis: http://www.hangtimes.com/txpacks.html http://us.sanyo.com/batteries I know the capacity is less than you wanted, but they are great TX pack cells. Charge them like a NiMH but they retain their charge on the shelf like a lipo. 90% charge retention after 6 months!! I have put them in a couple of my transmitters and they work very well. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Wed Jul 8 12:45:33 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:45:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <306325361.1617511247085932273.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Jeremy, I want to do it if makes sense to me.? It appears that I just have to try.? I Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEREMY CHINN" To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 1:53:44 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses One of my first jobs out of college was as the marketing manager for a?contact lens distributor and manufacturer.?That was a pretty fair number of years ago now..... ? I'm also a bifocal wearer since I was a pre-teen. ? If memory serves me right, translating contact?lenses are made in much the same fashion as?progressive?eyeglasses lens.?Gravity causes the?contact to stay oriented on your?eye, and the lens locates itself through the curve of your eye and the location of your lower eyelid... They are definitely a neat little piece of technology. ? This link is a pretty good description of them - ? http://www.allaboutvision.com/contacts/bifocals.htm ? It may be?worth a try for you. They don't work well for everyone. ? Surgical procedures do have a lot of horror stories with them, but I've not seen the data that would indicate that such issues are common. I'd think?the?FDA would pull the procedure if it was heavily failure prone. I do?know that?the company I worked for made the 'stabilizing lenses' that Anthony?mentioned below, and we sold them pretty regularly. ? You mention your wife wants you to do this. I'm all for keeping the wife happy, but at the end of the day, they are your eyes. Do you want to do this? ? ? Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 11:25:47 -0700 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses Whatever you do, do NOT even consider laser if you are not a good candidate. I was told at first that I wasn't a good candidate, then the doc took another measurement (I guess that happens when your check clears) and I was told that I would be OK. Everything was lovely for a year then went TERRIBLY wrong ?Now, due to a permanent destabilization of my eye?I am barely functional with glasses as my perscription changes monthly and can only see well enough to fly in special hard contacts that help maintain the integrity of my eyeball.? They are much less comfortable than?they sound and are prone to pop out or irritate me if the?slightest?bit of water or?breeze gets in my?eyes (no way there would be rain or wind at a contest)! I was told that I would have had much better vision with soft comfortable contacts if I had not done the laser procedure. My only other option is a non FDA approved procedure called collagen cross linking! Not effing likely!!! My advice, see a good eye doctor (not a mall optometrist) and have them fit you for some good?soft contacts. You will be?surprised at how well they work. Anthony? --- On Tue, 7/7/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bifocal Contact Lenses To: "NSRCA, NSRCA" Date: Tuesday, July 7, 2009, 8:16 PM Well, we need some discussion.? Probably this has been discussed before and I forgot details.? My wife wants me to use contact lenses or try laser.? I remember that I check laser and the doc. told me that I was not good candidate for laser.? Therefore, I am considering contact lenses (bifocals).? Any experience using this type of contact lenses is welcome. Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billpritch at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 12:57:00 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:57:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... Message-ID: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> All - Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many are in the other classes? Thanks, Bill Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 14:15:41 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Wed, 08 Jul 2009 22:15:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... Message-ID: <255600.34473.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 09RCA - RC Aerobatics Total Registrants - 111 Event #NameOpenSeniorJunior 402Intermediate Pattern1933 403Advanced Pattern1710 404Masters Pattern3710 406F3A Pattern2901 BANQBanquet Tickets3010 BANQ2Banquest Tickets x 2410 ?Totals13674 Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: From: Bill Pritchett Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 1:56 PM All - Will judging certification take place on Monday morning?? Time?? Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many are in the other classes? Thanks, Bill ?Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Wed Jul 8 17:30:52 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 01:30:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... In-Reply-To: <255600.34473.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1220862085.1725941247103051437.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> 4 juniors.? That is great.....? ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishlan fitzsimmons" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 5:15:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... 09RCA - RC Aerobatics Total Registrants - 111 Event # Name Open Senior Junior 402 Intermediate Pattern 19 3 3 403 Advanced Pattern 17 1 0 404 Masters Pattern 37 1 0 406 F3A Pattern 29 0 1 BANQ Banquet Tickets 30 1 0 BANQ2 Banquest Tickets x 2 4 1 0 ? Totals 136 7 4 Chris --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: From: Bill Pritchett Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 1:56 PM All - Will judging certification take place on Monday morning?? Time?? Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many are in the other classes? Thanks, Bill Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 18:57:23 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:57:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... Message-ID: <52703.61370.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That is great Vicente. 111 entries though. Should be a quick nats! lol See ya there! Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 6:30 PM #yiv513215516 p {margin:0;}4 juniors.? That is great.....? ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishlan fitzsimmons" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 5:15:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... 09RCA - RC Aerobatics Total Registrants - 111 Event # Name Open Senior Junior 402 Intermediate Pattern 19 3 3 403 Advanced Pattern 17 1 0 404 Masters Pattern 37 1 0 406 F3A Pattern 29 0 1 BANQ Banquet Tickets 30 1 0 BANQ2 Banquest Tickets x 2 4 1 0 ? Totals 136 7 4 Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: From: Bill Pritchett Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 1:56 PM All - Will judging certification take place on Monday morning?? Time?? Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many are in the other classes? Thanks, Bill ?Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 18:58:58 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:58:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Message-ID: <57307.66626.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Stylus? What's that? I already forgot. haha I already broke the left two switches off on one of my new radio's. Knocked it off the computer table after flying the sim. It now stays on the floor! lol See you guys there! Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 12:04 PM LOL?sure. I?ll bring a back up Stylus too. ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 3:03 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment ? Is this offer extended to Stylus flyers??? ;) ? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 12:47:57 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, ? Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers).? I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. ?I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. ? I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s.? Please? contact me offlist? if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. ? Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! ? -Mark ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Wed Jul 8 19:52:33 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 03:52:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... In-Reply-To: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2BEFA095-1B31-440D-BEC9-F9295A82F4F9@cox.net> Yes, on Monday morning. However, I can't remember whether it's 8:00 - noon or 9:00 - noon. Don Ramsey or Dale Arnold, are you out there? Ron VP On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: > All - > Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? > Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers > - how many are in the other classes? > Thanks, > Bill > > Bill Pritchett > Souled Out Entertainment > www.souledoutentertainment.biz > 765-744-9322 > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Wed Jul 8 20:10:42 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:10:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo Message-ID: <04309182-8F0A-4D9C-8938-D075C3DB2007@cox.net> A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition engine he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge. I suggested he look into optically isolating the servo from the receiver, to preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the receiver. He asked me where he could buy such a device and that's where I ran out of ideas. I remember that they used to be available, but can't remember who marketed them. Anybody know? Ron VP From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 20:27:48 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:27:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo Message-ID: <553606.28376.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> http://www.smart-fly.com/Products/Ignition/ignition.htm Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:09 PM A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition engine he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge.? I suggested he look into optically isolating the servo from the receiver, to preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the receiver.? He asked me where he could buy such a device and that's where I ran out of ideas.? I remember that they used to be available, but can't remember who marketed them.? Anybody know? Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 8 20:29:21 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:29:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo Message-ID: <759799.29216.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> oops, wrong thing Ron. Futaba makes a choke. I think it's sold at Horizon. Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:09 PM A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition engine he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge.? I suggested he look into optically isolating the servo from the receiver, to preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the receiver.? He asked me where he could buy such a device and that's where I ran out of ideas.? I remember that they used to be available, but can't remember who marketed them.? Anybody know? Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Wed Jul 8 20:39:13 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 04:39:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo In-Reply-To: <759799.29216.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <759799.29216.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04C85D0A-99DA-41B6-BA10-6368A0976A67@cox.net> I think I found one here: http://www.emsjomar.com/SearchResult.aspx? KeyWords=opto%20isolator Ron VP On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:29 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > oops, wrong thing Ron. > > Futaba makes a choke. I think it's sold at Horizon. > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:09 PM > > A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition > engine he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge. I > suggested he look into optically isolating the servo from the > receiver, to preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the > receiver. He asked me where he could buy such a device and that's > where I ran out of ideas. I remember that they used to be > available, but can't remember who marketed them. Anybody know? > > Ron VP > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 8 21:07:28 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:07:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo In-Reply-To: <04309182-8F0A-4D9C-8938-D075C3DB2007@cox.net> References: <04309182-8F0A-4D9C-8938-D075C3DB2007@cox.net> Message-ID: I think FMA makes some opto isolators. RS > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > From: vanputte at cox.net > Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:09:58 -0500 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo > > A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition engine > he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge. I suggested he > look into optically isolating the servo from the receiver, to > preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the receiver. He > asked me where he could buy such a device and that's where I ran out > of ideas. I remember that they used to be available, but can't > remember who marketed them. Anybody know? > > Ron VP > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Wed Jul 8 21:34:13 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:34:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo In-Reply-To: <04C85D0A-99DA-41B6-BA10-6368A0976A67@cox.net> References: <759799.29216.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <04C85D0A-99DA-41B6-BA10-6368A0976A67@cox.net> Message-ID: I've used one of these devices in IMAC planes.... www.electrodynam.com Rex > From: vanputte at cox.net > Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:38:29 -0500 > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo > > I think I found one here: http://www.emsjomar.com/SearchResult.aspx? > KeyWords=opto%20isolator > > Ron VP > > On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:29 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > oops, wrong thing Ron. > > > > Futaba makes a choke. I think it's sold at Horizon. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > > From: Ron Van Putte > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:09 PM > > > > A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition > > engine he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge. I > > suggested he look into optically isolating the servo from the > > receiver, to preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the > > receiver. He asked me where he could buy such a device and that's > > where I ran out of ideas. I remember that they used to be > > available, but can't remember who marketed them. Anybody know? > > > > Ron VP > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Jul 9 03:34:10 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 11:34:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... In-Reply-To: <1253317617.7911247139222371.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <755317305.7931247139247266.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Chris, Unfortunately ? I won't be able to go this year.? Have fun for me. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: " krishlan fitzsimmons " To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 9:57:21 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... That is great Vicente. 111 entries though. Should be a quick nats ! lol See ya there! Chris --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone < vicenterc @comcast.net> wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone < vicenterc @comcast.net> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 6:30 PM 4 juniors.? That is great.....? ----- Original Message ----- From: " krishlan fitzsimmons " To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 5:15:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... 09RCA - RC Aerobatics Total Registrants - 111 Event # Name Open Senior Junior 402 Intermediate Pattern 19 3 3 403 Advanced Pattern 17 1 0 404 Masters Pattern 37 1 0 406 F3A Pattern 29 0 1 BANQ Banquet Tickets 30 1 0 BANQ2 Banquest Tickets x 2 4 1 0 ? Totals 136 7 4 Chris --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Bill Pritchett < billpritch @yahoo.com> wrote: From: Bill Pritchett < billpritch @yahoo.com> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... To: nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 1:56 PM All - Will judging certification take place on Monday morning?? Time?? Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many are in the other classes? Thanks, Bill Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www . souledoutentertainment .biz 765-744-9322 ----- Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion ----- Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From completemarine02 at sprintpcs.com Thu Jul 9 04:07:06 2009 From: completemarine02 at sprintpcs.com (Rusty Fried) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:07:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo In-Reply-To: References: <759799.29216.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <04C85D0A-99DA-41B6-BA10-6368A0976A67@cox.net> Message-ID: <003801ca008d$b6313f70$2293be50$@com> Smart Fly makes a very light optical kill. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:34 PM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo I've used one of these devices in IMAC planes.... www.electrodynam.com Rex > From: vanputte at cox.net > Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 23:38:29 -0500 > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo > > I think I found one here: http://www.emsjomar.com/SearchResult.aspx? > KeyWords=opto%20isolator > > Ron VP > > On Jul 8, 2009, at 11:29 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > oops, wrong thing Ron. > > > > Futaba makes a choke. I think it's sold at Horizon. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > > From: Ron Van Putte > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 9:09 PM > > > > A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition > > engine he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge. I > > suggested he look into optically isolating the servo from the > > receiver, to preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the > > receiver. He asked me where he could buy such a device and that's > > where I ran out of ideas. I remember that they used to be > > available, but can't remember who marketed them. Anybody know? > > > > Ron VP > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 04:20:53 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:20:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... In-Reply-To: <1220862085.1725941247103051437.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <1220862085.1725941247103051437.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <921143.69050.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes...and isnt one in F3A? ________________________________ From: "Vicente "Vince" Bortone" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 8:30:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... 4 juniors.? That is great.....? ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishlan fitzsimmons" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 5:15:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... 09RCA - RC Aerobatics Total Registrants - 111 Event # Name Open Senior Junior 402 Intermediate Pattern 19 3 3 403 Advanced Pattern 17 1 0 404 Masters Pattern 37 1 0 406 F3A Pattern 29 0 1 BANQ Banquet Tickets 30 1 0 BANQ2 Banquest Tickets x 2 4 1 0 ? Totals 136 7 4 Chris --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: >From: Bill Pritchett >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 1:56 PM > > >All - >Will judging certification take place on Monday morning?? Time?? Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many are in the other classes? >Thanks, >Bill > >Bill Pritchett >Souled Out Entertainment >www.souledoutentertainment.biz >765-744-9322 > > > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Timjesky at charter.net Thu Jul 9 04:48:56 2009 From: Timjesky at charter.net (Tim Jesky) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:48:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... References: <1220862085.1725941247103051437.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <921143.69050.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501ca0093$4add2580$335b804b@tim3fba4063879> You're all set Ed. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: brian young To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... Yes...and isnt one in F3A? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Vicente "Vince" Bortone" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 8:30:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... 4 juniors. That is great..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishlan fitzsimmons" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 5:15:37 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... 09RCA - RC Aerobatics Total Registrants - 111 Event # Name Open Senior Junior 402 Intermediate Pattern 19 3 3 403 Advanced Pattern 17 1 0 404 Masters Pattern 37 1 0 406 F3A Pattern 29 0 1 BANQ Banquet Tickets 30 1 0 BANQ2 Banquest Tickets x 2 4 1 0 Totals 136 7 4 Chris --- On Wed, 7/8/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: From: Bill Pritchett Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 1:56 PM All - Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many are in the other classes? Thanks, Bill Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From don.ramsey at suddenlink.net Thu Jul 9 05:09:23 2009 From: don.ramsey at suddenlink.net (Don Ramsey) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:09:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... In-Reply-To: <2BEFA095-1B31-440D-BEC9-F9295A82F4F9@cox.net> References: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <2BEFA095-1B31-440D-BEC9-F9295A82F4F9@cox.net> Message-ID: <00d101ca0096$844be060$8ce3a120$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> I don't know. Don -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 10:52 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... Yes, on Monday morning. However, I can't remember whether it's 8:00 - noon or 9:00 - noon. Don Ramsey or Dale Arnold, are you out there? Ron VP On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: > All - > Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? > Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers > - how many are in the other classes? > Thanks, > Bill > > Bill Pritchett > Souled Out Entertainment > www.souledoutentertainment.biz > 765-744-9322 > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From bob at toprudder.com Thu Jul 9 05:23:14 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:23:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo Message-ID: <911843.25959.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> There are optical isolators that only?isolate the signal wire itself, the servo still gets its power through the extension from the receiver. That might help. There are chokes that will add some impedance to the RF interference (small ferrites on the leads) but that does not completely isolate the interference. If you want a completely isolated throttle servo, the only one I know of is from Forques Research. ? http://forgues-research.com/index.html ? The throttle servo gets its power from the ignition battery (or a separate battery), the servo signal is through a fiber optic cable. Use this in conjunction with a fiber optic ignition kill switch (as previously posted, from Smart-Fly) and everything associated with the engine is isolated electrically from the radio. ? Bob R. --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 1:09 AM A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition engine he's using, which causes the throttle servo to surge.? I suggested he look into optically isolating the servo from the receiver, to preclude the EMI going down the servo wires to the receiver.? He asked me where he could buy such a device and that's where I ran out of ideas.? I remember that they used to be available, but can't remember who marketed them.? Anybody know? Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 9 06:10:38 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:10:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <001101ca009f$06f881f0$14e985d0$@net> Mark, Does SD-10G have memory card? I got one, but don?t remember seeing any memory card. Any idea how to open the radio to change the mode? So far, it seems pretty good and light weight because of 7.2V tx pack. I am thinking about adding two cell lipo pack if it is compatible. By the way, How do I get a hold of guys at Airtronics? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthonyr105 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 9 07:10:00 2009 From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com (Anthony Romano) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:10:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment In-Reply-To: <001101ca009f$06f881f0$14e985d0$@net> References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <001101ca009f$06f881f0$14e985d0$@net> Message-ID: I have only had mine a short time but I will take a shot. The memory card is an accessory and I don't think they are available yet. The radio comes with a 20 model memory and the card adds another 20. It looks like modes 2 and 4 are swappable in the systems menu but I haven't tried it. Don't know about the others. The radio is designed to also use a two cell lipo but I don't think they have those yet either. The stock battery has a receiver plug on it and the compartment is a bit oversized leaving you many options. >From the Global Hobbies support forum Airtronics has a toll-free help line for those with technical questions about Airtronics products. >From how to program a radio to choosing the best servo for an application, we have an expert with a long-time career in the hobby dedicated to helping customers with technical questions. Please feel free to call should you need help with your Airtronics products. Please call Monday through Friday only between 12 to 4 pm Pacific Time 1-800-262-1178 Anthony Romano Team Airtronics From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:10:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Mark, Does SD-10G have memory card? I got one, but don?t remember seeing any memory card. Any idea how to open the radio to change the mode? So far, it seems pretty good and light weight because of 7.2V tx pack. I am thinking about adding two cell lipo pack if it is compatible. By the way, How do I get a hold of guys at Airtronics? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_SD_25GB_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Thu Jul 9 07:27:00 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:27:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <001101ca009f$06f881f0$14e985d0$@net> Message-ID: <2A3FF58FB60B45F080D3970960A86FCD@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> I put a 2 cell lipo in mine with a pigtail I made up with a servo plug on one end and a Deans connector on the other. Makes for nice easy swaps to another battery if there were a failure or if it went dead. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Romano To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net ; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment I have only had mine a short time but I will take a shot. The memory card is an accessory and I don't think they are available yet. The radio comes with a 20 model memory and the card adds another 20. It looks like modes 2 and 4 are swappable in the systems menu but I haven't tried it. Don't know about the others. The radio is designed to also use a two cell lipo but I don't think they have those yet either. The stock battery has a receiver plug on it and the compartment is a bit oversized leaving you many options. From the Global Hobbies support forum Airtronics has a toll-free help line for those with technical questions about Airtronics products. From how to program a radio to choosing the best servo for an application, we have an expert with a long-time career in the hobby dedicated to helping customers with technical questions. Please feel free to call should you need help with your Airtronics products. Please call Monday through Friday only between 12 to 4 pm Pacific Time 1-800-262-1178 Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:10:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Mark, Does SD-10G have memory card? I got one, but don?t remember seeing any memory card. Any idea how to open the radio to change the mode? So far, it seems pretty good and light weight because of 7.2V tx pack. I am thinking about adding two cell lipo pack if it is compatible. By the way, How do I get a hold of guys at Airtronics? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 9 07:35:47 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:35:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment In-Reply-To: References: <2078120175.118968.1247069958703.JavaMail.mail@webmail04> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A4F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <001101ca009f$06f881f0$14e985d0$@net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A85@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> That's pretty much the scoop. The memory cards are on the way. I just got one of the first shipment to bring to the nats incase we need to move setups (hopefully Kris will stop dropping his transmitter!), but I don't think they've started to fill orders yet. As for the modes, it's fairly simple and the instructions are in the manual that shipped. 4 screws to remove the back, the gimbals swap easily if you need to go to Mode 1 or 3, and electronically in the system menu you can switch between modes 1-4. The Toll free help line will connect you with Jack Albrecht who has been doing support for Atx for a LONG time. He knows all of the radios and equipment backwards and forwards. I can also connect you with Mike Greenshields, the product manager if need be, just contact me off list. There is also a Airtronics User group forum that's pretty worthwhile (very very low traffic compared to this list) at AirtronicsUsersGroup at egroups.com As for the lipo pack, yes, the system was designed for a 2-cell lipo and as Anthony states, the case has an oversized battery compartment to allow various configurations. -M From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Romano Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment I have only had mine a short time but I will take a shot. The memory card is an accessory and I don't think they are available yet. The radio comes with a 20 model memory and the card adds another 20. It looks like modes 2 and 4 are swappable in the systems menu but I haven't tried it. Don't know about the others. The radio is designed to also use a two cell lipo but I don't think they have those yet either. The stock battery has a receiver plug on it and the compartment is a bit oversized leaving you many options. >From the Global Hobbies support forum Airtronics has a toll-free help line for those with technical questions about Airtronics products. >From how to program a radio to choosing the best servo for an application, we have an expert with a long-time career in the hobby dedicated to helping customers with technical questions. Please feel free to call should you need help with your Airtronics products. Please call Monday through Friday only between 12 to 4 pm Pacific Time 1-800-262-1178 Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ________________________________ From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:10:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Mark, Does SD-10G have memory card? I got one, but don't remember seeing any memory card. Any idea how to open the radio to change the mode? So far, it seems pretty good and light weight because of 7.2V tx pack. I am thinking about adding two cell lipo pack if it is compatible. By the way, How do I get a hold of guys at Airtronics? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer's transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo's. Please contact me offlist if you're interested and I'll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark ________________________________ Windows Live(tm) SkyDrive(tm): Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 9 07:49:37 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (Chris Fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:49:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Message-ID: <566825.75610.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mark, I could use your help transferring my setup. We are somewhere in Nevada now. Will be there tomorrow night. Thx Chris Sent from my iPhone On Jul 9, 2009, at 8:35 AM, "Atwood, Mark" wrote: That?s pretty much the scoop. The memory cards are on the way. I just got one of the first shipment to bring to the nats incase we need to move setups (hopefully Kris will stop dropping his transmitter!), but I don?t think they?ve started to fill orders yet. As for the modes, it?s fairly simple and the instructions are in the manual that shipped. 4 screws to remove the back, the gimbals swap easily if you need to go to Mode 1 or 3, and electronically in the system menu you can switch between modes 1-4. The Toll free help line will connect you with Jack Albrecht who has been doing support for Atx for a LONG time. He knows all of the radios and equipment backwards and forwards. I can also connect you with Mike Greenshields, the product manager if need be, just contact me off list. There is also a Airtronics User group forum that?s pretty worthwhile (very very low traffic compared to this list) at AirtronicsUsersGroup at egroups.com As for the lipo pack, yes, the system was designed for a 2-cell lipo and as Anthony states, the case has an oversized battery compartment to allow various configurations. -M From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Romano Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment I have only had mine a short time but I will take a shot. The memory card is an accessory and I don't think they are available yet. The radio comes with a 20 model memory and the card adds another 20. It looks like modes 2 and 4 are swappable in the systems menu but I haven't tried it. Don't know about the others. The radio is designed to also use a two cell lipo but I don't think they have those yet either. The stock battery has a receiver plug on it and the compartment is a bit oversized leaving you many options. From the Global Hobbies support forum Airtronics has a toll-free help line for those with technical questions about Airtronics products. From how to program a radio to choosing the best servo for an application, we have an expert with a long-time career in the hobby dedicated to helping customers with technical questions. Please feel free to call should you need help with your Airtronics products. Please call Monday through Friday only between 12 to 4 pm Pacific Time 1-800-262-1178 Anthony Romano Team Airtronics From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:10:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Mark, Does SD-10G have memory card? I got one, but don?t remember seeing any memory card. Any idea how to open the radio to change the mode? So far, it seems pretty good and light weight because of 7.2V tx pack. I am thinking about adding two cell lipo pack if it is compatible. By the way, How do I get a hold of guys at Airtronics? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 ily:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 /body> > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 9 08:08:33 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:08:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... References: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <2BEFA095-1B31-440D-BEC9-F9295A82F4F9@cox.net> Message-ID: <8EFD4C64C9DB481C8F9127D68DABABB5@glazecstp32xp> Ron: Not Sunday night? Or actually early evening, like about 6:00. Didn't it usually happen that way, or am I having a copy of one of your "Senior Moments?" (A recurring phenomenon, unfortunately!) Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... > Yes, on Monday morning. However, I can't remember whether it's 8:00 - > noon or 9:00 - noon. Don Ramsey or Dale Arnold, are you out there? > > Ron VP > > On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: > >> All - >> Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? Also, >> someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - how many >> are in the other classes? >> Thanks, >> Bill >> >> Bill Pritchett >> Souled Out Entertainment >> www.souledoutentertainment.biz >> 765-744-9322 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 9 08:10:44 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:10:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo References: <04309182-8F0A-4D9C-8938-D075C3DB2007@cox.net> Message-ID: <1B38B3ECE9D241BE9FE8E8F8860A3079@glazecstp32xp> Ron.some of the guys I know used to use the plastic control rods, with suitable metal ends/clevises, and make sure that the servo was at least 6-8 inches away. Kept the metal to a minimum. Seemed to work well. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 12:09 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Optical Isolation of Servo >A customer needs to get rid of interference from the ignition engine he's >using, which causes the throttle servo to surge. I suggested he look into >optically isolating the servo from the receiver, to preclude the EMI going >down the servo wires to the receiver. He asked me where he could buy such >a device and that's where I ran out of ideas. I remember that they used >to be available, but can't remember who marketed them. Anybody know? > > Ron VP > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From RCSkyraidr at aol.com Thu Jul 9 08:48:49 2009 From: RCSkyraidr at aol.com (RCSkyraidr at aol.com) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:48:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS140 For Sale Message-ID: Steve, Send me your contact info at _granellif at aol.com_ (mailto:granellif at aol.com) or call me at 973-625-0051. I am interested in the OS. Thanks Frank G. In a message dated 7/8/2009 3:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a NIB OS 140 RX with a Mac Header(#4745) with a 2.25" rise. Price of $350.00 includes shipping in US. Can bring to NATS. Please contact me off list. Thanks, Steve Miller ____________________________________ Looking for love this summer? _Find it now on AOL Personals_ (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) . _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 9 10:07:54 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:07:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment In-Reply-To: <566825.75610.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <566825.75610.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8A8B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> No problem. I?ll be there late tomorrow night sometime. Just catch up with me over the weekend. -M From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Fitzsimmons Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:50 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Mark, I could use your help transferring my setup. We are somewhere in Nevada now. Will be there tomorrow night. Thx Chris Sent from my iPhone On Jul 9, 2009, at 8:35 AM, "Atwood, Mark" > wrote: That?s pretty much the scoop. The memory cards are on the way. I just got one of the first shipment to bring to the nats incase we need to move setups (hopefully Kris will stop dropping his transmitter!), but I don?t think they?ve started to fill orders yet. As for the modes, it?s fairly simple and the instructions are in the manual that shipped. 4 screws to remove the back, the gimbals swap easily if you need to go to Mode 1 or 3, and electronically in the system menu you can switch between modes 1-4. The Toll free help line will connect you with Jack Albrecht who has been doing support for Atx for a LONG time. He knows all of the radios and equipment backwards and forwards. I can also connect you with Mike Greenshields, the product manager if need be, just contact me off list. There is also a Airtronics User group forum that?s pretty worthwhile (very very low traffic compared to this list) at AirtronicsUsersGroup at egroups.com As for the lipo pack, yes, the system was designed for a 2-cell lipo and as Anthony states, the case has an oversized battery compartment to allow various configurations. -M From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Romano Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 11:10 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment I have only had mine a short time but I will take a shot. The memory card is an accessory and I don't think they are available yet. The radio comes with a 20 model memory and the card adds another 20. It looks like modes 2 and 4 are swappable in the systems menu but I haven't tried it. Don't know about the others. The radio is designed to also use a two cell lipo but I don't think they have those yet either. The stock battery has a receiver plug on it and the compartment is a bit oversized leaving you many options. From the Global Hobbies support forum Airtronics has a toll-free help line for those with technical questions about Airtronics products. From how to program a radio to choosing the best servo for an application, we have an expert with a long-time career in the hobby dedicated to helping customers with technical questions. Please feel free to call should you need help with your Airtronics products. Please call Monday through Friday only between 12 to 4 pm Pacific Time 1-800-262-1178 Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ________________________________ From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2009 09:10:34 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment Mark, Does SD-10G have memory card? I got one, but don?t remember seeing any memory card. Any idea how to open the radio to change the mode? So far, it seems pretty good and light weight because of 7.2V tx pack. I am thinking about adding two cell lipo pack if it is compatible. By the way, How do I get a hold of guys at Airtronics? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics Back up equipment To the guys that will be flying the new Airtronics SD-10G transmitter at the Nats, Because the demand for the first two runs of this radio were so high, many that ordered 2 radios have only received 1 unit (including team flyers). I wanted to let you know that Airtronics has been kind enough to loan us some spare equipment should someone have a problem. I seem to recall a certain Michigan flyer backing his minivan over another (then Michagan, now South Carolina) flyer?s transmitter that was resting comfortably in the shade of his rear tire. I will be bringing a spare TX, RX, memory card for transferring programs, and some servo?s. Please contact me offlist if you?re interested and I?ll let you know where to get a hold of me during the nats should you need something. Looking forward to seeing everyone soon! -Mark ________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 ily:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Get it on your BlackBerry or iPhone. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 /body> > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.7/2222 - Release Date: 07/07/09 05:53:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shinden1 at cox.net Thu Jul 9 10:10:09 2009 From: shinden1 at cox.net (shinden1 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:10:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] wood shinden for sale Message-ID: <20090709141007.OD1D2.238168.imail@eastrmwml43> Hello all I`m selling my wood proto Shinden to make room for more projects, its all wood/ composite nose chin,canopy incluudes a thr servo ,, 2 9150,,ail servos a 9152 elevator and a 9155 rudder servo Hyde mount ,and nishioka pipe mount tabs will stay it`s in pretty good shape needs some minor cosmetic repair a very good flier all paint set up for a 1.6 as of now for c/g 1500.00$ plus shipping or I can bring it to the Nats Bryan From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 9 11:20:43 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:20:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... In-Reply-To: <8EFD4C64C9DB481C8F9127D68DABABB5@glazecstp32xp> References: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <2BEFA095-1B31-440D-BEC9-F9295A82F4F9@cox.net> <8EFD4C64C9DB481C8F9127D68DABABB5@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <1EB0B48D-B26F-41A9-BD8A-15E40081FD05@cox.net> It's always been on the morning of checkin day for as long as I can remember. Ron On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: > Ron: > Not Sunday night? Or actually early evening, like about 6:00. > Didn't it usually happen that way, or am I having a copy of one of > your "Senior Moments?" (A recurring phenomenon, unfortunately!) > Bill Glaze > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:51 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... > > >> Yes, on Monday morning. However, I can't remember whether it's >> 8:00 - noon or 9:00 - noon. Don Ramsey or Dale Arnold, are you >> out there? >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: >> >>> All - >>> Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? >>> Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master >>> flyers - how many are in the other classes? >>> Thanks, >>> Bill >>> >>> Bill Pritchett >>> Souled Out Entertainment >>> www.souledoutentertainment.biz >>> 765-744-9322 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 9 14:33:14 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:33:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... References: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><2BEFA095-1B31-440D-BEC9-F9295A82F4F9@cox.net><8EFD4C64C9DB481C8F9127D68DABABB5@glazecstp32xp> <1EB0B48D-B26F-41A9-BD8A-15E40081FD05@cox.net> Message-ID: <4FC28A15843241DBAB534A07B2E3BFFE@glazecstp32xp> O.K.--it is what it is. But, I can remember in 1997 going to Dunphy's school in the evening, and I remember a contestant that lived and worked in the area that obtained the conference room at an office where he was employed. He got it for us for us downtown in his office, and the school was in the evening, I believe that was in 1998. But, that's all obsolete now. Thanks for saving me a day at the motel! Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... > It's always been on the morning of checkin day for as long as I can > remember. > > Ron > > On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: > >> Ron: >> Not Sunday night? Or actually early evening, like about 6:00. Didn't >> it usually happen that way, or am I having a copy of one of your "Senior >> Moments?" (A recurring phenomenon, unfortunately!) >> Bill Glaze >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:51 PM >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... >> >> >>> Yes, on Monday morning. However, I can't remember whether it's 8:00 - >>> noon or 9:00 - noon. Don Ramsey or Dale Arnold, are you out there? >>> >>> Ron VP >>> >>> On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: >>> >>>> All - >>>> Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? >>>> Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master flyers - >>>> how many are in the other classes? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Bill >>>> >>>> Bill Pritchett >>>> Souled Out Entertainment >>>> www.souledoutentertainment.biz >>>> 765-744-9322 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From moleski at canisius.edu Thu Jul 9 14:51:17 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:51:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks Message-ID: <4A56745D.6090502@canisius.edu> Our officers have been negotiating with PayPal. Odds are that we will be cleared to resume taking PayPal payments eventually. Not in time for this year's Nats. We had planned to close ticket sales on July 9 anyway. I've sent the final report and the file for printing ticket stubs to Brian Clemmons. Online sales raised $1960 for the F3A team. I think that is pretty respectable, all things considered. Marty From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 9 14:53:58 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 22:53:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks Message-ID: <67514.29570.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Marty, ? That means, we can't buy any more?? ? Ihncheol --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Martin X. Moleski, SJ wrote: From: Martin X. Moleski, SJ Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks To: "NSRCA Discussion List" Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 5:51 PM Our officers have been negotiating with PayPal. Odds are that we will be cleared to resume taking PayPal payments eventually. Not in time for this year's Nats. We had planned to close ticket sales on July 9 anyway. I've sent the final report and the file for printing ticket stubs to Brian Clemmons. Online sales raised $1960 for the F3A team. I think that is pretty respectable, all things considered. ??? ??? ??? ??? Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Jul 9 15:52:36 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:52:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks In-Reply-To: <67514.29570.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <67514.29570.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0907091652j4c3f9685q155e5fa201cec146@mail.gmail.com> Unfortunately you can't buy more tickets through Paypal but you can still contact your district VP for tickets, or you can contact Brian Clemmons who is handling the raffle. -Derek On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:53 PM, Ihncheol Park wrote: > Marty, > > That means, we can't buy any more?? > > Ihncheol > > --- On *Thu, 7/9/09, Martin X. Moleski, SJ * wrote: > > > From: Martin X. Moleski, SJ > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks > To: "NSRCA Discussion List" > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 5:51 PM > > > Our officers have been negotiating with PayPal. > > Odds are that we will be cleared to resume taking > PayPal payments eventually. > > Not in time for this year's Nats. > > We had planned to close ticket sales on July 9 > anyway. > > I've sent the final report and the file for > printing ticket stubs to Brian Clemmons. > > Online sales raised $1960 for the F3A team. > I think that is pretty respectable, all things > considered. > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Thu Jul 9 16:05:24 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 00:05:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks In-Reply-To: <67514.29570.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <67514.29570.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A5685BD.9020307@canisius.edu> Ihncheol Park wrote: > That means, we can't buy any more?? So far as I know, PayPal has put a hold on all NSRCA transactions because the word "raffle" raised an alarm at headquarters. The word "raffle" does not appear in their terms of service, but "lottery" does. Six of one, half-dozen of another? If we get service restored, and if Brian is willing, we might have one more day of sales. I want to allow Brian lots of time to print the stubs, cut them up, and put them into the bucket, along with getting himself and his gear ready for the nats. Hence the cutoff date about a week in advance of the banquet. Marty From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 9 19:05:12 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:05:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... In-Reply-To: <4FC28A15843241DBAB534A07B2E3BFFE@glazecstp32xp> References: <370914.98674.qm@web65112.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><2BEFA095-1B31-440D-BEC9-F9295A82F4F9@cox.net><8EFD4C64C9DB481C8F9127D68DABABB5@glazecstp32xp> <1EB0B48D-B26F-41A9-BD8A-15E40081FD05@cox.net> <4FC28A15843241DBAB534A07B2E3BFFE@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: It's held in the main conference room on the second floor of the AMA Headquarters building. Ron VP On Jul 9, 2009, at 5:33 PM, Bill Glaze wrote: > O.K.--it is what it is. But, I can remember in 1997 going to > Dunphy's school in the evening, and I remember a contestant that > lived and worked in the area that obtained the conference room at > an office where he was employed. He got it for us for us downtown > in his office, and the school was in the evening, I believe that > was in 1998. But, that's all obsolete now. Thanks for saving me a > day at the motel! > Bill Glaze > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 3:20 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... > > >> It's always been on the morning of checkin day for as long as I >> can remember. >> >> Ron >> >> On Jul 9, 2009, at 11:08 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: >> >>> Ron: >>> Not Sunday night? Or actually early evening, like about 6:00. >>> Didn't it usually happen that way, or am I having a copy of one >>> of your "Senior Moments?" (A recurring phenomenon, >>> unfortunately!) >>> Bill Glaze >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" >>> >>> To: "General pattern discussion" >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 11:51 PM >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Couple more Nats questions..... >>> >>> >>>> Yes, on Monday morning. However, I can't remember whether it's >>>> 8:00 - noon or 9:00 - noon. Don Ramsey or Dale Arnold, are you >>>> out there? >>>> >>>> Ron VP >>>> >>>> On Jul 8, 2009, at 3:56 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: >>>> >>>>> All - >>>>> Will judging certification take place on Monday morning? Time? >>>>> Also, someone posted the number of registered FAI and Master >>>>> flyers - how many are in the other classes? >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>>> Bill Pritchett >>>>> Souled Out Entertainment >>>>> www.souledoutentertainment.biz >>>>> 765-744-9322 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Thu Jul 9 19:25:54 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 03:25:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS 63 S Message-ID: <667664.36809.qm@web112610.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Anybody have a lightly used YS63-S that they would like to sell....and is relatively close to Ontario? ? Colin. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 05:00:57 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:00:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks Message-ID: <699805.17877.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I took money online for buying tickets at the Nats via paypal. Paypal didn't like it and made me go thru some rigaramo process to get reinstated. They let it slide this time. So I didn't know it was a problem to sell raffle tickets via paypal but I know now. Mike --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > From: Derek Koopowitz > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 6:52 PM > Unfortunately you can't buy > more tickets through Paypal but you can still contact your > district VP for tickets, or you can contact Brian Clemmons > who is handling the raffle. > ? > -Derek > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 3:53 PM, > Ihncheol Park > wrote: > > > > > > > Marty, > ? > That means, we can't buy any more?? > ? > Ihncheol > > --- On Thu, 7/9/09, Martin X. Moleski, SJ > wrote: > > > From: Martin X. Moleski, SJ > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- > thanks > > To: "NSRCA Discussion List" > Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 5:51 PM > > > > > > Our officers have been negotiating with PayPal. > > Odds are that we will be cleared to resume taking > PayPal payments eventually. > > Not in time for this year's Nats. > > We had planned to close ticket sales on July 9 > > anyway. > > I've sent the final report and the file for > printing ticket stubs to Brian Clemmons. > > Online sales raised $1960 for the F3A team. > I think that is pretty respectable, all things > considered. > > > ??? ??? ??? ??? Marty > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From moleski at canisius.edu Fri Jul 10 05:03:41 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:03:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks In-Reply-To: <699805.17877.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <699805.17877.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A573C25.4030502@canisius.edu> Mike, > I took money online for buying tickets at the Nats via paypal. Paypal didn't > like it and made me go thru some rigaramo process to get reinstated. > They let it slide this time. So I didn't know it was a problem to sell > raffle tickets via paypal but I know now. That's pretty much what happened to us. Who knew? Marty From patternlady at tds.net Fri Jul 10 05:14:02 2009 From: patternlady at tds.net (Linda A Carnes) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:14:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks In-Reply-To: <4A573C25.4030502@canisius.edu> References: <699805.17877.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4A573C25.4030502@canisius.edu> Message-ID: I hate the hassle but it is to protect everyone. I went through a night mare 2 months ago and I got ripped for many charges from .75 to 78.28 I did get my money back from the bank. I had to change my card what a hassle. Sincerely Linda A. Carnes -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Martin X. Moleski, SJ Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 9:04 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 98 raffle tickets sold -- thanks Mike, > I took money online for buying tickets at the Nats via paypal. Paypal didn't > like it and made me go thru some rigaramo process to get reinstated. > They let it slide this time. So I didn't know it was a problem to sell > raffle tickets via paypal but I know now. That's pretty much what happened to us. Who knew? Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From deanfunk1 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 10 11:14:49 2009 From: deanfunk1 at yahoo.com (Dean Funk) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 19:14:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Black Magic V2.2 Builders Kit for sale - Nats Special Message-ID: <777223.71309.qm@web37402.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Builders kit, Carbon canopy and parts, fiberglass cowl and chin, honeycomb wing cores, stab, fin and turtle deck cores, laser and cnc cut parts, printed plans. Must supply sheeting wood and hardware, etc.... This is the Carbon Kit from Custom Airframes. $225.00 will bring to nats, contact me off list please.... thanks for looking, Dean From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Fri Jul 10 15:16:14 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:16:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing Message-ID: <006301ca01b4$56a49c50$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> I am looking for a spec on a bearing. NSK Z9089. It is the rear bearing in the Shulman F3A Fury. I have tried to cross reference to size on the internet but have been unsuccessful. Even called Boca and got a "what size is it" type response. Can anybody help me. I would like to change it at the Nats if I can find one. Thanks John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burtona at atmc.net Fri Jul 10 15:30:57 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 23:30:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing In-Reply-To: <006301ca01b4$56a49c50$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <006301ca01b4$56a49c50$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <008101ca01b6$6f25bbe0$4d7133a0$@net> John, an industrial bearing supply house should be able to measure it and find a replacement for you. Look in yellow pages and you should find one locally. Dave Burton From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Fuqua Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 7:16 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing I am looking for a spec on a bearing. NSK Z9089. It is the rear bearing in the Shulman F3A Fury. I have tried to cross reference to size on the internet but have been unsuccessful. Even called Boca and got a "what size is it" type response. Can anybody help me. I would like to change it at the Nats if I can find one. Thanks John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 10 20:21:48 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 04:21:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing In-Reply-To: <006301ca01b4$56a49c50$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <006301ca01b4$56a49c50$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: Motion Industries, Applied Industrial Technologies, MSC maybe, Grainger maybe, Kaman Industrial, Bearing Headquarters, Bearing Distributors--All competitors of mine in power transmission stuff--but also have bearings as their main lines. Most have good cross references on the web--I think--and will open on Sats--if not open(AM best bet). If stocked elsewhere, they would ship it to a local store for P/U--or directly to AMA HQ. There is enough industry around that area that I would imagine the biggies have stores within a 50 mile radius of Muncie--or Indy if you had to.. RS From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:15:38 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing I am looking for a spec on a bearing. NSK Z9089. It is the rear bearing in the Shulman F3A Fury. I have tried to cross reference to size on the internet but have been unsuccessful. Even called Boca and got a ?what size is it? type response. Can anybody help me. I would like to change it at the Nats if I can find one. Thanks John _________________________________________________________________ Bing? brings you health information from trusted sources. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Fri Jul 10 20:26:07 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 04:26:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing Message-ID: Jphn, I believe you are reading the numbers upside down. You read them as if you are in the center of the bearing. The rear bearing is a 6806Z 30mm ID X 42mm OD X 7mm thick. Single shield deep groove single row ball bearing. Just do a search on NSK 6806Z and it will pop up all over the place. Next question is how to you press it out? Don In a message dated 7/10/2009 4:16:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, johnfuqua at embarqmail.com writes: I am looking for a spec on a bearing. NSK Z9089. It is the rear bearing in the Shulman F3A Fury. I have tried to cross reference to size on the internet but have been unsuccessful. Even called Boca and got a ?what size is it? type response. Can anybody help me. I would like to change it at the Nats if I can find one. Thanks John _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion **************Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on tour at TourTracker.com. (http://www.tourtracker.com/?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000006) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Sat Jul 11 01:34:45 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 09:34:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <009601ca020a$bcc9a2e0$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> thanks -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of AtwoodDon at aol.com Sent: Friday, July 10, 2009 11:26 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bearing Jphn, I believe you are reading the numbers upside down. You read them as if you are in the center of the bearing. The rear bearing is a 6806Z 30mm ID X 42mm OD X 7mm thick. Single shield deep groove single row ball bearing. Just do a search on NSK 6806Z and it will pop up all over the place. Next question is how to you press it out? Don In a message dated 7/10/2009 4:16:48 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, johnfuqua at embarqmail.com writes: I am looking for a spec on a bearing. NSK Z9089. It is the rear bearing in the Shulman F3A Fury. I have tried to cross reference to size on the internet but have been unsuccessful. Even called Boca and got a "what size is it" type response. Can anybody help me. I would like to change it at the Nats if I can find one. Thanks John _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Summer concert season is here! Find your favorite artists on tour at TourTracker.com . From scottyorr at hws.edu Sat Jul 11 16:23:25 2009 From: scottyorr at hws.edu (Scotty Orr) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 00:23:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 6 ft balsa In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A592CF9.3090307@hws.edu> This place has 10 foot lengths (milling required): http://www.specializedbalsa.com/balsa_blocks.php From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Sat Jul 11 17:29:09 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 01:29:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 Certified Judges List Message-ID: <000c01ca0290$23580e40$6a082ac0$@com> I just received the list from Dale and I've posted on the website. http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/certifiedjudges/2009_Certified_Judges_List .pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Sat Jul 11 17:48:22 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 01:48:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 Certified Judges List In-Reply-To: <000c01ca0290$23580e40$6a082ac0$@com> References: <000c01ca0290$23580e40$6a082ac0$@com> Message-ID: So, apparently no one has received the list from D8.... hmmmm I guess I'd better get that done. Rex From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sat, 11 Jul 2009 18:29:01 -0700 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 Certified Judges List I just received the list from Dale and I?ve posted on the website? http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/certifiedjudges/2009_Certified_Judges_List.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Sat Jul 11 18:39:47 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 02:39:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 6 ft balsa In-Reply-To: <4A592CF9.3090307@hws.edu> Message-ID: Thanks. The local hobby shop proprietor told me un-milled large blocks were available. He also indicated 6' lengths would incur a shipping charge increase. I guess I will continue to splice 4' sheets. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Scotty Orr Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:23 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 6 ft balsa This place has 10 foot lengths (milling required): http://www.specializedbalsa.com/balsa_blocks.php _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jaqfly at prodigy.net Sat Jul 11 19:05:22 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:05:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 Certified Judges List In-Reply-To: <000c01ca0290$23580e40$6a082ac0$@com> References: <000c01ca0290$23580e40$6a082ac0$@com> Message-ID: <695216.46002.qm@web83301.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> No one from my seminar is listed, like Steve Miller, Ken Velez, both of whom will be at the NATS! ?Jim Quinn ________________________________ From: Derek Koopowitz To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:29:01 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 Certified Judges List I just received the list from Dale and I?ve posted on the website? http://nsrca.us/documents/judging/certifiedjudges/2009_Certified_Judges_List.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sat Jul 11 19:46:11 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 03:46:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 6 ft balsa In-Reply-To: References: <4A592CF9.3090307@hws.edu> Message-ID: <04D2797EC72548959A41E5D76F12893F@LLDPC> I e-mailed Jake at jake at specializedbalsa.com.. He was very quick to respond shortly after somebody posted his web-site... Might be worth asking him directly... Larry -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 9:40 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 6 ft balsa Thanks. The local hobby shop proprietor told me un-milled large blocks were available. He also indicated 6' lengths would incur a shipping charge increase. I guess I will continue to splice 4' sheets. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Scotty Orr Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 5:23 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 6 ft balsa This place has 10 foot lengths (milling required): http://www.specializedbalsa.com/balsa_blocks.php _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From moleski at canisius.edu Sun Jul 12 09:39:31 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 17:39:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NSRCA: K-F Dwnload In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A5A1FCA.5040209@canisius.edu> Dave Harmon wrote: > This is an enquiry e-mail via http://www.nsrca.us/ from: > Dave Harmon > Hi Marty.....trying to catch up with dwnloading past K-F's..... > I log in ok and save target but no download occurs. > It just sits there. > So....if someone could look into it I would appreciate it. > Tnx Same thing happens to me. I don't see where ASP logs errors--nor where the server (nsrca.org) does, either. We'll have to wait for Steve Sterling to look into it, I think. I don't know whether he is off at the nats. Marty From rbearden56 at bellsouth.net Mon Jul 13 15:35:59 2009 From: rbearden56 at bellsouth.net (Randall Bearden) Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:35:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2M For Sale Message-ID: All, I am selling a ready for finish Aeroslave Symphony. I set up the airframe according to the plans (thrust line, elevator incidence, tube and elevator alignment, and firewall installation) and used jigs to ensure this is strait and true. The set up is dead on. The airframe is sanded and initial primer applied. The engine included is a brand new in box YS 160DZ with a Hatori cool header but no 821 muffler, cowl is cut out and prepped for this setup. Spinner and slotted back plate included Engine mount and nose ring installed and included Canopy and chin cowl mounts installed Gear is Bolly CF (Before the stopped producing them) Wings, Elevators, and Rudder are ready for covering, cutouts, facing, LE / TE are done Servo bays are cut and faced for Futaba S9202. Elevators have a DILP set up installed, rods and hardware is included MK Control Horns are included with plane Incidence Adjusters are installed. Aileron Servos Futaba S9202 (2) included Elevator Servo Futaba S92020 (1) included Rudder Servo Futaba S9405 (1) included Throttle servo Futaba standard servo installed (might want to replace with micro) Photos are available at my ad on RCUNIVERSE.com don't mind the idiot comment but read my reply!! I want to sell this as a bundle so I have not listed individual item prices. Asking Price $1500.00 This is a very good value for the money Randall Bearden rbearden56 at bellsouth.net From wemodels at cox.net Tue Jul 14 22:38:15 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 06:38:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bullet Connector SOurce In-Reply-To: <4A5A1FCA.5040209@canisius.edu> References: <4A5A1FCA.5040209@canisius.edu> Message-ID: <4A5D7955.5010202@cox.net> I know lots of people use the Dean's Ultra connectors, but I prefer bullets, mostly because all of my chargers and the packs I had when I got into E-pattern were already set up for bullets. I've seen some pretty high prices out there, but here is another source. http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=39 This is an extremely good vendor. He ships fast, is ultra reliable and has never let me down. Bill in SOCAL From rdpee at juno.com Wed Jul 15 12:52:53 2009 From: rdpee at juno.com (Ralph D Perillo) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:52:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] For Sale Message-ID: <20090715.165118.2664.1.rdpee@juno.com> For Sale 1- Like Brand New ( one tank run /never flown ) excellent condition 3M Mintor Twin Plug 170 Engine w/ 3M Header, Hyde Type A Mount Also fits OS 140, ES Carbon Tuned Pipe.($900.00 Value) Now $325.00 for all!!!!!!!! (Pictures on Request) 1- Used Hyde YS 140 Type A Mt. excellent shape. $35.00 1- New AAP Aluminum 120-160 Pipe 3/4" $50.00 Postage is not included!!! Will accept Paypal, Check, or Money orders. Contact me off list Ralph D Perillo (rdpee at juno.com) Buffalo,NY ____________________________________________________________ The easiest way to create a blog. Click now! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTEpPwIVlUpHHhYFGibtiT0b3p358IHZ9OhrZl2B8VQmCNMAgxnviw/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Wed Jul 15 20:24:53 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 04:24:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... In-Reply-To: <45644.77912.qm@web80206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <45644.77912.qm@web80206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: List is fairly quiet--off another. RS - Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 9:27 PM We're hearing a lot today about big splashy memorial services. I want a nationwide memorial service for Darrell "Shifty" Powers. Shifty volunteered for the airborne in WWII and served with Easy Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 101st Airborne Infantry. If you've seen Band of Brothers on HBO or the History Channel, you know Shifty. His character appears in all 10 episodes, and Shifty himself is interviewed in several of them. I met Shifty in the Philadelphia airport several years ago. I didn't know who he was at the time. I just saw an elderly gentleman having trouble reading his ticket. I offered to help, assured him that he was at the right gate, and noticed the "Screaming Eagle," the symbol of the 101st Airborne, on his hat. Making conversation, I asked him if he'd been in the 101st Airborne or if his son was serving. He said quietly that he had been in the 101st. I thanked him for his service, then asked him when he served, and how many jumps he made. Quietly and humbly, he said "Well, I guess I signed up in 1941 or so, and was in until sometime in 1945 .. . . " at which point my heart skipped. At that point, again, very humbly, he said "I made the 5 training jumps at Toccoa, and then jumped into Normandy . . . . do you know where Normandy is?" At this point my heart stopped. I told him "yes, I know exactly where Normandy is, and I know what D-Day was." At that point he said "I also made a second jump into Holland, into Arnhem." I was standing with a genuine war hero . . . . and then I realized that it was June, just after the anniversary of D-Day.. I asked Shifty if he was on his way back from France, and he said "Yes. And it's real sad because, these days, so few of the guys are left, and those that are, lots of them can't make the trip." My heart was in my throat and I didn't know what to say. I helped Shifty get onto the plane and then realized he was back in Coach while I was in First Class. I sent the flight attendant back to get him and said that I wanted to switch seats. When Shifty came forward, I got up out of the seat and told him I wanted him to have it, that I'd take his in coach. He said "No, son, you enjoy that seat. Just knowing that there are still some who remember what we did and who still care is enough to make an old man very happy." His eyes were filling up as he said it. And mine are brimming up now as I write this. Shifty died on June 17 after fighting cancer. There was no parade. No big event in Staples Center. No wall to wall back to back 24x7 news coverage. No weeping fans on television. And that's not right. Let's give Shifty his own Memorial Service, online, in our own quiet way. Please forward this email to everyone you know. Especially to the veterans. Rest in peace, Shifty. Chuck Yeager, MajGen. [ret.] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.15/2239 - Release Date: 07/15/09 06:07:00 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Weight Management Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. . __,_._,___ _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage_062009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 03:09:33 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:09:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... In-Reply-To: <145584072.2036971247742526448.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1848083735.2037021247742567958.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> RS , Everybody very busy at the Nats.? VB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Strickland" To: "NSRCA DISCUSSION" Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:24:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... List is fairly quiet--off another. RS ? ? - Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 9:27 PM ? We're hearing a lot today about big splashy memorial services. I want a nationwide memorial service for Darrell "Shifty" Powers. Shifty volunteered for the airborne in WWII and served with Easy ? Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 101st ? Airborne Infantry. If you've seen Band of Brothers on HBO or the ? History Channel, you know Shifty. His character appears in all 10 ? episodes, and Shifty himself is interviewed in several of them. I met Shifty in the Philadelphia airport several years ago. I didn't ? know who he was at the time. I just saw an elderly gentleman having ? trouble reading his ticket. I offered to help, assured him that he was ? at the right gate, and noticed the "Screaming Eagle," the symbol of ? the 101st Airborne, on his hat. Making conversation, I asked him if he'd been in the 101st Airborne ? or if his son was serving. He said quietly that he had been in the ? 101st. I thanked him for his service, then asked him when he served, ? and how many jumps he made. Quietly and humbly, he said "Well, I guess I signed up in 1941 or so, ? and was in until sometime in 1945 .. . . " at which point my heart ? skipped. At that point, again, very humbly, he said "I made the 5 training ? jumps at Toccoa, and then jumped into Normandy . . . . do you know ? where Normandy is?" At this point my heart stopped. I told him "yes, I know exactly where Normandy is, and I know what ? D-Day was." At that point he said "I also made a second jump into ? Holland, into Arnhem." I was standing with a genuine war hero . . . . ? and then I realized that it was June, just after the anniversary of ? D-Day.. I asked Shifty if he was on his way back from France, and he said ? "Yes. And it's real sad because, these days, so few of the guys are ? left, and those that are, lots of them can't make the trip." My heart ? was in my throat and I didn't know what to say. I helped Shifty get onto the plane and then realized he was back in ? Coach while I was in First Class. I sent the flight attendant back to ? get him and said that I wanted to switch seats. When Shifty came ? forward, I got up out of the seat and told him I wanted him to have ? it, that I'd take his in coach. He said "No, son, you enjoy that seat. Just knowing that there are ? still some who remember what we did and who still care is enough to ? make an old man very happy." His eyes were filling up as he said it. ? And mine are brimming up now as I write this. Shifty died on June 17 after fighting cancer. There was no parade. No big event in Staples Center. No wall to wall back to back 24x7 news coverage. No weeping fans on television. And that's not right. Let's give Shifty his own Memorial Service, online, in our own quiet ? way. Please forward this email to everyone you know. Especially to the ? veterans. Rest in peace, Shifty. Chuck Yeager, MajGen. [ret.] ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.15/2239 - Release Date: 07/15/09 06:07:00 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic ( 1 ) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Weight Management Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. . __,_._,___ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. Check it out. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Jul 16 03:14:39 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:14:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... In-Reply-To: <1848083735.2037021247742567958.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <45B92DD8C63E49D594311E5589DE2416@jaysdesktop> Is anyone doing a daily report from the Nats on the 'net? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:09 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... RS, Everybody very busy at the Nats. VB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Strickland" To: "NSRCA DISCUSSION" Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:24:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... List is fairly quiet--off another. RS - Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 9:27 PM We're hearing a lot today about big splashy memorial services. I want a nationwide memorial service for Darrell "Shifty" Powers. Shifty volunteered for the airborne in WWII and served with Easy Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 101st Airborne Infantry. If you've seen Band of Brothers on HBO or the History Channel, you know Shifty. His character appears in all 10 episodes, and Shifty himself is interviewed in several of them. I met Shifty in the Philadelphia airport several years ago. I didn't know who he was at the time. I just saw an elderly gentleman having trouble reading his ticket. I offered to help, assured him that he was at the right gate, and noticed the "Screaming Eagle," the symbol of the 101st Airborne, on his hat. Making conversation, I asked him if he'd been in the 101st Airborne or if his son was serving. He said quietly that he had been in the 101st. I thanked him for his service, then asked him when he served, and how many jumps he made. Quietly and humbly, he said "Well, I guess I signed up in 1941 or so, and was in until sometime in 1945 .. . . " at which point my heart skipped. At that point, again, very humbly, he said "I made the 5 training jumps at Toccoa, and then jumped into Normandy . . . . do you know where Normandy is?" At this point my heart stopped. I told him "yes, I know exactly where Normandy is, and I know what D-Day was." At that point he said "I also made a second jump into Holland, into Arnhem." I was standing with a genuine war hero . . . . and then I realized that it was June, just after the anniversary of D-Day.. I asked Shifty if he was on his way back from France, and he said "Yes. And it's real sad because, these days, so few of the guys are left, and those that are, lots of them can't make the trip." My heart was in my throat and I didn't know what to say. I helped Shifty get onto the plane and then realized he was back in Coach while I was in First Class. I sent the flight attendant back to get him and said that I wanted to switch seats. When Shifty came forward, I got up out of the seat and told him I wanted him to have it, that I'd take his in coach. He said "No, son, you enjoy that seat. Just knowing that there are still some who remember what we did and who still care is enough to make an old man very happy." His eyes were filling up as he said it. And mine are brimming up now as I write this. Shifty died on June 17 after fighting cancer. There was no parade. No big event in Staples Center. No wall to wall back to back 24x7 news coverage. No weeping fans on television. And that's not right. Let's give Shifty his own Memorial Service, online, in our own quiet way. Please forward this email to everyone you know. Especially to the veterans. Rest in peace, Shifty. Chuck Yeager, MajGen. [ret.] _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.15/2239 - Release Date: 07/15/09 06:07:00 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Weight Management Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. . __,_._,___ _____ HotmailR has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits. Check it out. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.wartel at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 03:44:20 2009 From: d.wartel at hotmail.com (david wartel) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:44:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... In-Reply-To: <45B92DD8C63E49D594311E5589DE2416@jaysdesktop> References: <1848083735.2037021247742567958.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <45B92DD8C63E49D594311E5589DE2416@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/natsnews.aspx From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:14:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... Is anyone doing a daily report from the Nats on the ?net? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:09 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... RS, Everybody very busy at the Nats. VB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Strickland" To: "NSRCA DISCUSSION" Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:24:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... List is fairly quiet--off another. RS - Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 9:27 PM We're hearing a lot today about big splashy memorial services. I want a nationwide memorial service for Darrell "Shifty" Powers. Shifty volunteered for the airborne in WWII and served with Easy Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 101st Airborne Infantry. If you've seen Band of Brothers on HBO or the History Channel, you know Shifty. His character appears in all 10 episodes, and Shifty himself is interviewed in several of them. I met Shifty in the Philadelphia airport several years ago. I didn't know who he was at the time. I just saw an elderly gentleman having trouble reading his ticket. I offered to help, assured him that he was at the right gate, and noticed the "Screaming Eagle," the symbol of the 101st Airborne, on his hat. Making conversation, I asked him if he'd been in the 101st Airborne or if his son was serving. He said quietly that he had been in the 101st. I thanked him for his service, then asked him when he served, and how many jumps he made. Quietly and humbly, he said "Well, I guess I signed up in 1941 or so, and was in until sometime in 1945 .. . . " at which point my heart skipped. At that point, again, very humbly, he said "I made the 5 training jumps at Toccoa, and then jumped into Normandy . . . . do you know where Normandy is?" At this point my heart stopped. I told him "yes, I know exactly where Normandy is, and I know what D-Day was." At that point he said "I also made a second jump into Holland, into Arnhem." I was standing with a genuine war hero . . . . and then I realized that it was June, just after the anniversary of D-Day.. I asked Shifty if he was on his way back from France, and he said "Yes. And it's real sad because, these days, so few of the guys are left, and those that are, lots of them can't make the trip." My heart was in my throat and I didn't know what to say. I helped Shifty get onto the plane and then realized he was back in Coach while I was in First Class. I sent the flight attendant back to get him and said that I wanted to switch seats. When Shifty came forward, I got up out of the seat and told him I wanted him to have it, that I'd take his in coach. He said "No, son, you enjoy that seat. Just knowing that there are still some who remember what we did and who still care is enough to make an old man very happy." His eyes were filling up as he said it. And mine are brimming up now as I write this. Shifty died on June 17 after fighting cancer. There was no parade. No big event in Staples Center. No wall to wall back to back 24x7 news coverage. No weeping fans on television. And that's not right. Let's give Shifty his own Memorial Service, online, in our own quiet way. Please forward this email to everyone you know. Especially to the veterans. Rest in peace, Shifty. Chuck Yeager, MajGen. [ret.] No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.15/2239 - Release Date: 07/15/09 06:07:00 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Weight Management Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. . __,_._,___ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. Check it out. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 03:56:17 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:56:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... In-Reply-To: <1142798938.2042151247745318256.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1473153853.2042321247745373982.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Check these two web sites?also: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8926121 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8932363 Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "david wartel" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 6:44:16 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/nats/natsnews.aspx From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 07:14:29 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... Is anyone doing a daily report from the Nats on the ?net? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 7:09 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... RS, Everybody very busy at the Nats.? VB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Strickland" To: "NSRCA DISCUSSION" Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 11:24:51 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: [ATR Ltd.] Fw: Very Important...... List is fairly quiet--off another. RS ? ? - Date: Wednesday, July 15, 2009, 9:27 PM ? We're hearing a lot today about big splashy memorial services. I want a nationwide memorial service for Darrell "Shifty" Powers. Shifty volunteered for the airborne in WWII and served with Easy ? Company of the 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, part of the 101st ? Airborne Infantry. If you've seen Band of Brothers on HBO or the ? History Channel, you know Shifty. His character appears in all 10 ? episodes, and Shifty himself is interviewed in several of them. I met Shifty in the Philadelphia airport several years ago. I didn't ? know who he was at the time. I just saw an elderly gentleman having ? trouble reading his ticket. I offered to help, assured him that he was ? at the right gate, and noticed the "Screaming Eagle," the symbol of ? the 101st Airborne, on his hat. Making conversation, I asked him if he'd been in the 101st Airborne ? or if his son was serving. He said quietly that he had been in the ? 101st. I thanked him for his service, then asked him when he served, ? and how many jumps he made. Quietly and humbly, he said "Well, I guess I signed up in 1941 or so, ? and was in until sometime in 1945 .. . . " at which point my heart ? skipped. At that point, again, very humbly, he said "I made the 5 training ? jumps at Toccoa, and then jumped into Normandy . . . . do you know ? where Normandy is?" At this point my heart stopped. I told him "yes, I know exactly where Normandy is, and I know what ? D-Day was." At that point he said "I also made a second jump into ? Holland, into Arnhem." I was standing with a genuine war hero . . . . ? and then I realized that it was June, just after the anniversary of ? D-Day.. I asked Shifty if he was on his way back from France, and he said ? "Yes. And it's real sad because, these days, so few of the guys are ? left, and those that are, lots of them can't make the trip." My heart ? was in my throat and I didn't know what to say. I helped Shifty get onto the plane and then realized he was back in ? Coach while I was in First Class. I sent the flight attendant back to ? get him and said that I wanted to switch seats. When Shifty came ? forward, I got up out of the seat and told him I wanted him to have ? it, that I'd take his in coach. He said "No, son, you enjoy that seat. Just knowing that there are ? still some who remember what we did and who still care is enough to ? make an old man very happy." His eyes were filling up as he said it. ? And mine are brimming up now as I write this. Shifty died on June 17 after fighting cancer. There was no parade. No big event in Staples Center. No wall to wall back to back 24x7 news coverage. No weeping fans on television. And that's not right. Let's give Shifty his own Memorial Service, online, in our own quiet ? way. Please forward this email to everyone you know. Especially to the ? veterans. Rest in peace, Shifty. Chuck Yeager, MajGen. [ret.] ? ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.15/2239 - Release Date: 07/15/09 06:07:00 __._,_.___ Messages in this topic ( 1 ) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls | Members | Calendar MARKETPLACE Mom Power: Discover the community of moms doing more for their families, for the world and for each other Yahoo! Groups Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity Visit Your Group Yahoo! Finance It's Now Personal Guides, news, advice & more. Y! Groups blog The place to go to stay informed on Groups news! Weight Management Group on Yahoo! Groups Join the challenge and lose weight. . __,_._,___ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. Check it out. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 05:33:20 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:33:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July 16 Message-ID: With all due respect to "Shifty" mentioned by Richard this morning and the Nats in progress I just have to say that 40 years ago today... almost to the minute Apollo 11 lifted off for the moon. Man! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Jul 16 05:39:26 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:39:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July 16 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20E6DC48EDB0480BA2AF2FADAE77D0B7@jaysdesktop> Yep, and I was on Grand Turk tracking it. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 9:33 AM To: Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July 16 With all due respect to "Shifty" mentioned by Richard this morning and the Nats in progress I just have to say that 40 years ago today... almost to the minute Apollo 11 lifted off for the moon. Man! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From THERUPMAN at aol.com Thu Jul 16 08:00:21 2009 From: THERUPMAN at aol.com (THERUPMAN at aol.com) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:00:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July 16 Message-ID: Ah!!!. Gran Turk. On the way to Santo Domingo. **************Can love help you live longer? Find out now. (http://personals.aol.com/articles/2009/02/18/longer-lives-through-relationships/?ncid=emlweu slove00000001) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 16 08:03:22 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 16:03:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July 16 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I passed it on--but did you note who wrote it? RS From: jlkonn at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 08:33:19 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July 16 With all due respect to "Shifty" mentioned by Richard this morning and the Nats in progress I just have to say that 40 years ago today... almost to the minute Apollo 11 lifted off for the moon. Man! JLK _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Jul 16 09:14:13 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:14:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] looking for Jason Shulman Message-ID: <050AA6DA1736473286538E63EFB4ABDD@Tony> Jason: Please e-mail me off-list Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Jul 16 09:15:45 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:15:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Jason Message-ID: <039550EF3DCA43928071DBDF44725800@Tony> Jason: My e-mail address is tony at radiosouthrc.com Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Jul 16 15:27:14 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:27:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Biplanes at the Nats ??? Message-ID: <391264330.2315031247786833408.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Just to have a good conversation point when the Nats is history.? I didn't see any in the published pictures. Vicente "Vince" Bortone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Jul 16 15:32:41 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:32:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Raffle winners announced Message-ID: <3454543c0907161632u2cb3377etcfa0fe5a9c328f7a@mail.gmail.com> Please check www.nsrca.us for the list of the raffle winners. Brian Clemmons just sent me a text with the information and I've updated the website. Thank you to all that bought raffle tickets and to the vendors that contributed merchandise for the raffle as well. Brian informed me that almost $16,000 has been raised so far - that is great news! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Thu Jul 16 15:39:41 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:39:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Biplanes at the Nats ??? In-Reply-To: <391264330.2315031247786833408.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <391264330.2315031247786833408.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Check out Nat's News.... Wednesday's posting has Brett W. flying a Euphoria Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:27:13 +0000 From: vicenterc at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Biplanes at the Nats ??? Just to have a good conversation point when the Nats is history. I didn't see any in the published pictures. Vicente "Vince" Bortone -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Thu Jul 16 15:40:01 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:40:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Raffle winners announced In-Reply-To: <3454543c0907161632u2cb3377etcfa0fe5a9c328f7a@mail.gmail.com> References: <3454543c0907161632u2cb3377etcfa0fe5a9c328f7a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A5FBA49.1020008@canisius.edu> Derek Koopowitz wrote: > Please check www.nsrca.us for the list of the > raffle winners. Brian Clemmons just sent me a text with the information > and I've updated the website. Nice work! I've got four winners in the mix from the online sales. :o) > Thank you to all that bought raffle tickets and to the vendors that > contributed merchandise for the raffle as well. Brian informed me that > almost $16,000 has been raised so far - that is great news! Marvelous! Marty From wemodels at cox.net Thu Jul 16 15:50:50 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 23:50:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Biplanes at the Nats ??? In-Reply-To: <391264330.2315031247786833408.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <391264330.2315031247786833408.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A5FBCD9.6040201@cox.net> Not sure if you can view this without registering, but the Flying Giants website has a few threads going about the NATS. This one has a bunch of photos: http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg107/44849-2009-f3a-nats.html From schale at optonline.net Thu Jul 16 17:02:44 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:02:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Biplanes at the Nats ??? In-Reply-To: <4A5FBCD9.6040201@cox.net> References: <391264330.2315031247786833408.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4A5FBCD9.6040201@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A5FCDB2.5000909@optonline.net> Actually quite entertaining being that most of the responders fly IMAC only :) Good pics. Stuart Bill's Email wrote: > > > Not sure if you can view this without registering, but the Flying > Giants website has a few threads going about the NATS. This one has a > bunch of photos: > > http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg107/44849-2009-f3a-nats.html > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > From wemodels at cox.net Thu Jul 16 17:12:17 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 01:12:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Biplanes at the Nats ??? In-Reply-To: <4A5FCDB2.5000909@optonline.net> References: <391264330.2315031247786833408.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4A5FBCD9.6040201@cox.net> <4A5FCDB2.5000909@optonline.net> Message-ID: <4A5FCFEF.6090403@cox.net> Actually most of them do not even do that, they fly 3D, but there are a few IMAC guys and even fewer pattern folks. But they did raise $4552.44 in donations to support the 2009 F3A Team, so that is nothing to sneeze at. Stuart Chale wrote: > Actually quite entertaining being that most of the responders fly IMAC > only :) > Good pics. > Stuart > > Bill's Email wrote: >> >> >> Not sure if you can view this without registering, but the Flying >> Giants website has a few threads going about the NATS. This one has a >> bunch of photos: >> >> http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg107/44849-2009-f3a-nats.html >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 06:33:42 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (Chris Fitzsimmons) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:33:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Biplanes at the Nats ??? Message-ID: <773292.43044.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Brett had a u pukia. That was all. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 16, 2009, at 6:27 PM, "Vicente \"Vince\" Bortone" wrote: Just to have a good conversation point when the Nats is history. I didn't see any in the published pictures. Vicente "Vince" Bortone _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwaynenancy at suddenlink.net Fri Jul 17 13:34:36 2009 From: dwaynenancy at suddenlink.net (Dwayne Brown) Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:34:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2.4 SITE Message-ID: <29EEFE6E42E9404DBAD679099C0A2B6C@YoursMine> An interesting site to look at. The radios have mechanical trims. Dwayne http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patternrules at yahoo.com Fri Jul 17 18:49:07 2009 From: patternrules at yahoo.com (Steven Maxwell) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 02:49:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrates to all competetors Message-ID: <280279.75118.qm@web111312.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> And a BIG herray for Andrew winning FAI well deserved for lots of hard work. Steve Maxwell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ejhaury at comcast.net Sat Jul 18 04:39:34 2009 From: ejhaury at comcast.net (Earl Haury) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:39:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Charger Precaution Message-ID: I recently had a well known LiPo charger develop an internal short across the output. The charger finished charging a pack fine, but when connecting the next pack a major arc removed a good deal of the connector. The manufacturer confirmed that there was an internal component failure and promptly replaced the unit (the thing was new and only used half a dozen times.) This could have been really bad if the short had occurred mid-charge with the batts fully connected. I suspect that installing an inline fuse in the leads between the charger and batts would be prudent. In-line fuse holders are readily available (Radio Shack, auto parts suppliers, etc.) Probably something in the 20A slo-blow range will work. Earl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Sat Jul 18 04:52:22 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 12:52:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Charger Precaution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Early, That's good advice! Do you think the balance tap needs protected as well? I learned my lesson when I had my LiPo fire that I wrote up in my column not too long ago. But for the grace of God... Thanks! JLK From: ejhaury at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:39:19 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Charger Precaution I recently had a well known LiPo charger develop an internal short across the output. The charger finished charging a pack fine, but when connecting the next pack a major arc removed a good deal of the connector. The manufacturer confirmed that there was an internal component failure and promptly replaced the unit (the thing was new and only used half a dozen times.) This could have been really bad if the short had occurred mid-charge with the batts fully connected. I suspect that installing an inline fuse in the leads between the charger and batts would be prudent. In-line fuse holders are readily available (Radio Shack, auto parts suppliers, etc.) Probably something in the 20A slo-blow range will work. Earl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From don.ramsey at suddenlink.net Sat Jul 18 07:26:13 2009 From: don.ramsey at suddenlink.net (Don Ramsey) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:26:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results In-Reply-To: <49C045D7.3090309@optonline.net> References: <137DDDEA-D2FE-4E81-A2FD-CD6CCAFD47F9@socal.rr.com> <49C045D7.3090309@optonline.net> Message-ID: <01fd01ca07bc$171c7ef0$45557cd0$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> I have the final NATS results posted on http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey/ From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Sat Jul 18 11:08:30 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 19:08:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results References: <137DDDEA-D2FE-4E81-A2FD-CD6CCAFD47F9@socal.rr.com><49C045D7.3090309@optonline.net> <01fd01ca07bc$171c7ef0$45557cd0$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> Message-ID: <000001ca07db$fee62b90$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Thanks Don. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Ramsey" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:26 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results >I have the final NATS results posted on > > > http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jh102649 at speakeasy.net Sat Jul 18 13:24:28 2009 From: jh102649 at speakeasy.net (Jeff Hill) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:24:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results In-Reply-To: <01fd01ca07bc$171c7ef0$45557cd0$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> References: <137DDDEA-D2FE-4E81-A2FD-CD6CCAFD47F9@socal.rr.com> <49C045D7.3090309@optonline.net> <01fd01ca07bc$171c7ef0$45557cd0$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> Message-ID: <35110722-2A14-4234-A381-6FA0B61E45BA@speakeasy.net> Don - I can't find them. Jeff Hill On Jul 18, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Don Ramsey wrote: > I have the final NATS results posted on > > > http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 18 14:35:51 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 22:35:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S w/ APC 16x7 on CP30H Message-ID: <886125.40677.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Has anyone tried 110S with APC 16x7? ?? Fuel is Coolpower 30 Heli. ? Any feedback on the combo? Thanks, ? Ihncheol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jferrell13 at triad.rr.com Sat Jul 18 15:00:50 2009 From: jferrell13 at triad.rr.com (John Ferrell) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:00:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results References: <137DDDEA-D2FE-4E81-A2FD-CD6CCAFD47F9@socal.rr.com><49C045D7.3090309@optonline.net><01fd01ca07bc$171c7ef0$45557cd0$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> <35110722-2A14-4234-A381-6FA0B61E45BA@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <94FD776E27614E26BFDB993743E28E67@xppro2> Look under "Nats History" John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Hill" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results > Don - > > I can't find them. > > Jeff Hill > On Jul 18, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Don Ramsey wrote: > >> I have the final NATS results posted on >> >> >> http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey/ >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From ejhaury at comcast.net Sat Jul 18 16:27:11 2009 From: ejhaury at comcast.net (Earl Haury) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 00:27:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Charger Precaution References: Message-ID: <62085845D6714A05A87F9DEFC8357A01@earllaptop> John Hard to fuse the balance taps. The small gauge wire would likely provide the "fuse" action in a short of any consequence. Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Charger Precaution Early, That's good advice! Do you think the balance tap needs protected as well? I learned my lesson when I had my LiPo fire that I wrote up in my column not too long ago. But for the grace of God... Thanks! JLK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: ejhaury at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 07:39:19 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Charger Precaution I recently had a well known LiPo charger develop an internal short across the output. The charger finished charging a pack fine, but when connecting the next pack a major arc removed a good deal of the connector. The manufacturer confirmed that there was an internal component failure and promptly replaced the unit (the thing was new and only used half a dozen times.) This could have been really bad if the short had occurred mid-charge with the batts fully connected. I suspect that installing an inline fuse in the leads between the charger and batts would be prudent. In-line fuse holders are readily available (Radio Shack, auto parts suppliers, etc.) Probably something in the 20A slo-blow range will work. Earl ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patternrules at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 19:56:09 2009 From: patternrules at yahoo.com (Steven Maxwell) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 03:56:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] For sale 8411 servos Message-ID: <180415.78872.qm@web111311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ?I have 4- 8411's and extra plastic gears to convert all metal to SA.$75 each or all 4 for $280.?Thanks?Steve Maxwell -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Sat Jul 18 23:53:13 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 07:53:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? Message-ID: <201506.35423.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. Thank youAnthony?NSRCA #759? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sun Jul 19 05:51:36 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:51:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats NSRCA Banquet Message-ID: I have all the envelopes containing banquet tickets/cash from everyone but NSRCA District 4. The bad news is that I cannot remember who I gave the envelope to. If it was you, please contact me privately. Ron Van Putte From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 07:05:08 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 15:05:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? In-Reply-To: <201506.35423.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <61973.74565.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think Frak tried it a long time ago and didn't think it was suitable for pattern. Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 12:53 AM I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. Thank youAnthony?NSRCA #759? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tkeithblack at gmail.com Sun Jul 19 10:47:13 2009 From: tkeithblack at gmail.com (Keith Black) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:47:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? In-Reply-To: <201506.35423.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <201506.35423.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <77f26e410907191147j140779e9m65b804c2aeebece1@mail.gmail.com> The Matts flew the 15XL on the Beryll and frankly I could never understand how they could use it as my 14XL was on the slow side with my Brio. Now I have a Beryll and can understand how it could be usable with a 15XL as the Beryll is extremely clean and will very easily pick up speed. I'm flying a 14XL with my Beryll and think it's fine, but it would be interesting to try the 15XL to see what the Matts liked about it. Clearly the Beryll was designed low drag with electric in mind. Most other modern pattern planes need a 14XL or even a little more pull such as 13XL or the Neu F3A motor (which I think is somewhere between the 14XL and the 13XL. Keith Black On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw > that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone > have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior > to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. > I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. > > Thank you > Anthony > NSRCA #759 > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geobet4 at verizon.net Sun Jul 19 10:51:59 2009 From: geobet4 at verizon.net (GEORGE KENNIE) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:51:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Message-ID: I have to say that it was very tough for me, after 8 consecutive years of attendance at our premiere aerobatic challenge, to be unable to be there this year. I just spent a couple of hours reading Jim Quinn's fabulous account of each day's outcome in rapt attention. Terrific work Jim !, made up for a lot of my dissapointment at not being able to be there. It would appear that there were also some others who found it difficult to make the commitment this year as I couldn't help but notice in some of the pix that the parking lots seemed to be devoid of the usual overflow of cars. Let's hope this current economic temperature takes a turn for the better soon. I'm thrilled for Andrew. Nobody deserves the reward more. I hope he receives the proper recognition at the Worlds. He has certainly put in the effort. Way to go also to my District comrade John Tarpinian. What a great result for all your dedication to the sport over the years. Congratulations John !!!!!!!!!! Also the Lamprons, those kids are such neat guys and going to climb the ladder over the next couple of seasons, just you watch. It's fantastic to see new blood continuing to enter the sport. These young guys seem to be equipped with a higher level of natural ability that we older varieties. How great is that? And they're coming from multiple districts. I'm also inspired by all those who consistantly come in in the lower eschelons of their classes and yet continue to make the commitment to support our beloved sport. Some people might consider the attitude sacrificial, but it goes far deeper than that and they're probably the only ones who will understand that. I'm proud of everyone involved in this great venue and thank also the willing souls that go to serve that others might exercise the manifestation of their phenominal talent. What a great bunch of people you all are !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! G. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Sun Jul 19 10:56:00 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 18:56:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? References: <201506.35423.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <77f26e410907191147j140779e9m65b804c2aeebece1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001ca08a2$fadf68f0$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Speaking of all of this...I'm currently looking for another...very inexpensive...e-airframe for the rest of the season...if I can't work something out I'll go back to my Mantis and us that for the rest of the season... ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Black To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? The Matts flew the 15XL on the Beryll and frankly I could never understand how they could use it as my 14XL was on the slow side with my Brio. Now I have a Beryll and can understand how it could be usable with a 15XL as the Beryll is extremely clean and will very easily pick up speed. I'm flying a 14XL with my Beryll and think it's fine, but it would be interesting to try the 15XL to see what the Matts liked about it. Clearly the Beryll was designed low drag with electric in mind. Most other modern pattern planes need a 14XL or even a little more pull such as 13XL or the Neu F3A motor (which I think is somewhere between the 14XL and the 13XL. Keith Black On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. Thank you Anthony NSRCA #759 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 13:24:50 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:24:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Minor YS issue solved Message-ID: <230696.41304.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was having some minor YS issues prior to and into the NATS. The midrange on my very reliable but several seasons old 160DZ was weak, but top end power was good as was the idle. This year I had replaced the rear main bearing and more recently the front bearing and seal. I tried adjusting the pump but it seemed it was already the optimum position. I was also getting some oil residue in the cowl area. This is normally a "dry" engine without much mess in the cowl. I replaced the rocker cover gasket just prior to leaving for the NATS thinking it might be the problem, the o-rings on the pushrod cover looked ok. At the NATS I soon discovered the new gasket did not solve the oil problem but I just lived with it for the week. Upon returing home from the NATS, I pulled the head off and found the source of the leaking. The black o-rings that support the fuel pump were cut/worn. These are hidden by the pump so they canot be inspected without oulling the head. A new set of o-rings and the oil leak is gone, and the mid range transition is back to normal. I had not removed them during the prior bearing replacements, I just assumed they were ok. Lesson learned. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Sun Jul 19 13:59:44 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 21:59:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Minor YS issue solved References: <230696.41304.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001ca08bc$cf2dce80$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Bad Bobby... LOL!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kane" To: Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 4:24 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Minor YS issue solved > > I was having some minor YS issues prior to and into the NATS. The > midrange on my very reliable but several seasons old 160DZ was weak, but > top end power was good as was the idle. This year I had replaced the rear > main bearing and more recently the front bearing and seal. I tried > adjusting the pump but it seemed it was already the optimum position. I > was also getting some oil residue in the cowl area. This is normally a > "dry" engine without much mess in the cowl. I replaced the rocker cover > gasket just prior to leaving for the NATS thinking it might be the > problem, the o-rings on the pushrod cover looked ok. At the NATS I soon > discovered the new gasket did not solve the oil problem but I just lived > with it for the week. Upon returing home from the NATS, I pulled the head > off and found the source of the leaking. The black o-rings that support > the fuel pump were cut/worn. These are hidden by the pump so they canot be > inspected without oulling the head. > A new set of o-rings and the oil leak is gone, and the mid range > transition is back to normal. I had not removed them during the prior > bearing replacements, I just assumed they were ok. Lesson learned. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jaqfly at prodigy.net Sun Jul 19 15:40:12 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:40:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results In-Reply-To: <35110722-2A14-4234-A381-6FA0B61E45BA@speakeasy.net> References: <137DDDEA-D2FE-4E81-A2FD-CD6CCAFD47F9@socal.rr.com> <49C045D7.3090309@optonline.net> <01fd01ca07bc$171c7ef0$45557cd0$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> <35110722-2A14-4234-A381-6FA0B61E45BA@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <557694.43110.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Read the NatsNews on the AMA website. ?Jim Quinn ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeff Hill To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:24:25 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results Don - I can't find them. Jeff Hill On Jul 18, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Don Ramsey wrote: > I have the final NATS results posted on > > > http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 18:19:48 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:19:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? In-Reply-To: <000001ca08a2$fadf68f0$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <138977.67417.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I will be selling my Abbra if interested soon with a little chin cowl (very minor) damage. It will be pretty cheap. I just have to finish my Emotion first. Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Ken Thompson wrote: From: Ken Thompson Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 11:58 AM Speaking of all of this...I'm currently looking for another...very inexpensive...e-airframe for the rest of the season...if I can't work something out I'll go back to my Mantis and us that for the rest of the season... ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Black To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? The Matts flew the 15XL on the Beryll and frankly I could never understand how they could use it as my 14XL was on the slow side with my Brio. Now I have a Beryll and can understand how it could be usable with a 15XL as the Beryll is extremely clean and will very easily pick up speed. ? I'm flying a 14XL with my Beryll and think it's fine, but it would be interesting to try the 15XL to see what the Matts liked about it. ? Clearly the Beryll was designed low drag with electric in mind. Most other modern pattern planes need a 14XL or even a little more pull such as 13XL or the Neu F3A motor (which I think is somewhere between the 14XL and the 13XL. ? Keith Black ? On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. Thank you Anthony? NSRCA #759? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Sun Jul 19 18:29:52 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:29:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? In-Reply-To: <138977.67417.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <138977.67417.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <63DD803D-384A-4BA4-9F64-D916682EDB45@swtexas.net> Ken I saw this plane fly most of last week. Flew really well. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2009, at 9:19 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > I will be selling my Abbra if interested soon with a little chin > cowl (very minor) damage. It will be pretty cheap. I just have to > finish my Emotion first. > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Ken Thompson wrote: > > From: Ken Thompson > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 11:58 AM > > Speaking of all of this...I'm currently looking for another...very > inexpensive...e-airframe for the rest of the season...if I can't > work something out I'll go back to my Mantis and us that for the > rest of the season... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Keith Black > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:47 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? > > The Matts flew the 15XL on the Beryll and frankly I could never > understand how they could use it as my 14XL was on the slow side > with my Brio. Now I have a Beryll and can understand how it could be > usable with a 15XL as the Beryll is extremely clean and will very > easily pick up speed. > > I'm flying a 14XL with my Beryll and think it's fine, but it would > be interesting to try the 15XL to see what the Matts liked about it. > > Clearly the Beryll was designed low drag with electric in mind. Most > other modern pattern planes need a 14XL or even a little more pull > such as 13XL or the Neu F3A motor (which I think is somewhere > between the 14XL and the 13XL. > > Keith Black > > > On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Anthony Abdullah > wrote: > I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and > saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". > Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way > suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that > people have been using. > > I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. > > Thank you > Anthony > NSRCA #759 > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Jul 19 18:45:34 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 02:45:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? In-Reply-To: <63DD803D-384A-4BA4-9F64-D916682EDB45@swtexas.net> Message-ID: <903339.78666.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wait, the plane flew well?? What about the pilot? lol. JK of course. Arch, You da man! I look forward to the next time we meet. I see I need to be more prepared. And I will be!? Got a new plane (thanks to Chris Moon!) and I have my eyes of Frak toward the end of the year with it. I'd like to try to make a D6 event next year. Depends on the economy I guess. We'll see. You were flying great! Thanks for the nice comment! Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:29 PM Ken I saw this plane fly most of last week. Flew really well.? Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2009, at 9:19 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: I will be selling my Abbra if interested soon with a little chin cowl (very minor) damage. It will be pretty cheap. I just have to finish my Emotion first. Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Ken Thompson wrote: From: Ken Thompson Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 11:58 AM Speaking of all of this...I'm currently looking for another...very inexpensive...e-airframe for the rest of the season...if I can't work something out I'll go back to my Mantis and us that for the rest of the season... ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Black To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? The Matts flew the 15XL on the Beryll and frankly I could never understand how they could use it as my 14XL was on the slow side with my Brio. Now I have a Beryll and can understand how it could be usable with a 15XL as the Beryll is extremely clean and will very easily pick up speed. ? I'm flying a 14XL with my Beryll and think it's fine, but it would be interesting to try the 15XL to see what the Matts liked about it. ? Clearly the Beryll was designed low drag with electric in mind. Most other modern pattern planes need a 14XL or even a little more pull such as 13XL or the Neu F3A motor (which I think is somewhere between the 14XL and the 13XL. ? Keith Black ? On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. Thank you Anthony? NSRCA #759? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Mon Jul 20 01:47:03 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:47:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? References: <138977.67417.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <63DD803D-384A-4BA4-9F64-D916682EDB45@swtexas.net> Message-ID: <003801ca091f$15c022f0$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Yeah, I've seen Abbra's fly, I like the plane. I really need to stay electric, the Mantis is a back up plan, but I need to stay in the air. I'll be taking you up on that offer of those low prof servos for the Mantis when you get back, thanks again. Sorry for the personal stuff on the list, folks... ----- Original Message ----- From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? Ken I saw this plane fly most of last week. Flew really well. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 19, 2009, at 9:19 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: I will be selling my Abbra if interested soon with a little chin cowl (very minor) damage. It will be pretty cheap. I just have to finish my Emotion first. Chris --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Ken Thompson wrote: From: Ken Thompson Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 11:58 AM Speaking of all of this...I'm currently looking for another...very inexpensive...e-airframe for the rest of the season...if I can't work something out I'll go back to my Mantis and us that for the rest of the season... ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith Black To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? The Matts flew the 15XL on the Beryll and frankly I could never understand how they could use it as my 14XL was on the slow side with my Brio. Now I have a Beryll and can understand how it could be usable with a 15XL as the Beryll is extremely clean and will very easily pick up speed. I'm flying a 14XL with my Beryll and think it's fine, but it would be interesting to try the 15XL to see what the Matts liked about it. Clearly the Beryll was designed low drag with electric in mind. Most other modern pattern planes need a 14XL or even a little more pull such as 13XL or the Neu F3A motor (which I think is somewhere between the 14XL and the 13XL. Keith Black On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 2:53 AM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. Thank you Anthony NSRCA #759 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 05:09:07 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:09:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] True RC batteries for sale Message-ID: I have 1 set (2 packs) of True RC 15C -5S 5000 batteries that I just got last week as a replacement and don't expect to need any time soon. They are 22.5oz per pack so about 45oz per set of 2. They sell for $135 per pack and I will let them go for $120 for each pack including shipping (US). These are good batteries, I have enough batteries now to finish the season and don't need these sitting around until next spring. Please email me off list if interested. Chris From jjvoth at mtelco.net Mon Jul 20 12:43:34 2009 From: jjvoth at mtelco.net (Jerry Voth) Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:43:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? In-Reply-To: <201506.35423.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <201506.35423.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I don't know anything about electrics but I ran across this page http://www.hackerbrushless.com/motorDetails.aspx?series=C50%20Competition ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Abdullah To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 2:53 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hacker C50 15XL? I am looking into getting an electric motor for my new Integral and saw that Hacker has a C50 15XL that is labeled "new and improved". Does anyone have any experience with this motor? Is it in any way suitable or superior to the more popular C50 13 and C50 14s that people have been using. I searched RCU but found very little info on the motor. Thank you Anthony NSRCA #759 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Mon Jul 20 18:23:11 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 02:23:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] True RC batteries for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sat Jul 18 15:03:37 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 23:03:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results In-Reply-To: <35110722-2A14-4234-A381-6FA0B61E45BA@speakeasy.net> References: <137DDDEA-D2FE-4E81-A2FD-CD6CCAFD47F9@socal.rr.com> <49C045D7.3090309@optonline.net> <01fd01ca07bc$171c7ef0$45557cd0$@ramsey@suddenlink.net> <35110722-2A14-4234-A381-6FA0B61E45BA@speakeasy.net> Message-ID: <929453.61202.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If these attachments come though, follow the yellow ovals. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Jeff Hill To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:24:25 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] NATS Results Don - I can't find them. Jeff Hill On Jul 18, 2009, at 9:26 AM, Don Ramsey wrote: > I have the final NATS results posted on > > > http://pages.suddenlink.net/donramsey/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Nats1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 194259 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NATS2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 258919 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NATS3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 288347 bytes Desc: not available URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Tue Jul 21 04:05:47 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:05:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Message-ID: <287408.15422.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9. Reply to me (getterflash at yahoo.com) or Tim Jesky . Thanks. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 21 07:16:05 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:16:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats contestant equipment for kfactor Message-ID: <505291.86606.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please send me your equipment list that you used at the nats (please do not post to list). Derek wasn't there this year so we didn't do it, but I would still like to put it in the KFactor. It's kind of a cool part of the nats issue IMO. Thanks! Chris kfactoreditor at gmail.com Chris ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 21 07:39:34 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:39:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] True RC batteries for sale Message-ID: <859427.46088.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Chris, I will take the 10C packs at your asking price. Send me an email off list and we can complete the transaction. ? Thanks Anthony AAbdu at sbcglobal.net --- On Mon, 7/20/09, Chris Moon wrote: From: Chris Moon Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] True RC batteries for sale To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 20, 2009, 10:23 PM I also have one brand new set (2 packs) of the lighter 10C? 5S-5000 packs (42oz per set) that sell for $112 X 2 plus shipping that I will sell for $200 for the set plus $5 for shipping.? Chris Chris Moon wrote: I have 1 set (2 packs) of True RC 15C -5S 5000 batteries that I just got last week as a replacement and don't expect to need any time soon. They are 22.5oz per pack? so about 45oz per set of 2.? They sell for $135 per pack and I will let them go for $120 for each pack including shipping (US). These are good batteries, I have enough batteries now to finish the season and don't need these sitting around until next spring.? Please email me off list if interested. Chris _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.20/2249 - Release Date: 07/19/09 17:59:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 08:27:44 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:27:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats contestant equipment for kfactor In-Reply-To: <505291.86606.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <505291.86606.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Can you give us a list of exactly what info you want? Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:16:03 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats contestant equipment for kfactor Please send me your equipment list that you used at the nats (please do not post to list). Derek wasn't there this year so we didn't do it, but I would still like to put it in the KFactor. It's kind of a cool part of the nats issue IMO. Thanks! Chris kfactoreditor at gmail.com Chris _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 09:00:06 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:00:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] True RC batteries for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Tue Jul 21 09:44:31 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:44:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats contestant equipment for kfactor In-Reply-To: References: <505291.86606.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Jul 21 09:47:57 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:47:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats contestant equipment for kfactor In-Reply-To: References: <505291.86606.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0907211047r1104e9cbp117b6d015cf3258b@mail.gmail.com> I'm pretty sure that's all we need. I don't have the form with me (its at home) but I will check tonight when I get back home. You can check last year's list for the information that we need: http://nsrca.us/documents/nats/2008_Nats_Pilot_Information_Sheet.pdf On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Chris Moon wrote: > Joe: > > These were the columns from 2007. Can't find last year's. > > > Name > Class > NSRCA member (y/n) > Plane > Weight > Engine/Motor > Controller (electric) > Batteries (electric) > Radio > Receiver > Throttle servo > Elevator servo > Aileron Servo > Rudder servo > Flight pack battery > Prop > Fuel (glow) > > > > > Chris > > > Joe Lachowski wrote: > > Can you give us a list of exactly what info you want? > > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2009 08:16:03 -0700 > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats contestant equipment for kfactor > > Please send me your equipment list that you used at the nats (please do > not post to list). Derek wasn't there this year so we didn't do it, but I > would still like to put it in the KFactor. It's kind of a cool part of the > nats issue IMO. > > Thanks! > > Chris > > kfactoreditor at gmail.com > > *Chris * > > > > > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: 07/21/09 05:58:00 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kennedybryan at bellsouth.net Tue Jul 21 17:23:15 2009 From: kennedybryan at bellsouth.net (Bryan Kennedy) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:23:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest Huntsville AL Sept. 12-13, 2009 Message-ID: Congratulations to all NATS winners. Now that the 2009 NATS are in the books it's time to mark your calendars for the 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern contest. We hope everyone can make it this year. This is a fantastic facility and look forward to seeing everyone. If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. Enjoy the post NATS flying; see you in Huntsville in September. Here is the link to the on line registration and event flyer http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2009-Pattern/2009-Pattern.html Regards Bryan Kennedy CD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Jul 21 17:40:32 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 01:40:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Contestant info revised with pilot sheet attached Message-ID: <216482.64488.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Please fill this out if you have not already sent me your info. Thanks!!!!!! Chris ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Pilot Information - 2009.doc Type: application/msword Size: 23552 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wemodels at cox.net Wed Jul 22 07:56:36 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 15:56:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hyperion Charger Update In-Reply-To: <3454543c0907211047r1104e9cbp117b6d015cf3258b@mail.gmail.com> References: <505291.86606.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0907211047r1104e9cbp117b6d015cf3258b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A6736B3.3010806@cox.net> I own and use Hyperion chargers. I have the original DUO charger (actually 2 of them). THey have a new update out that gives it 20 memory slots. This applies ONLY to the original DUO EOS0610i charger, NOT the DUO2 or the new DUO3. But I just did on my two, and the best thing is TWENTY MEMORY SLOTS now!! Yes, 20!! Not up on their website yet (8:30 am PDT 7/21/09), but here is a link for it: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12710791&postcount=1386 From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 22 11:58:30 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:58:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <287408.15422.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <287408.15422.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <488766.84280.qm@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I will absolutely be there. I don't know if I will be flying the ugly duckling or an electric Black Magic, or an Integral, but Margretta and I will be there representing the Green Team! Anthony ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; airsplatt at aol.com; Bill Ahrens ; Bill Brittain ; Bill Gregg ; Bill Pritchett ; Bob Hartwig ; Bob Kane ; Brenner_M_Sharp at whirlpool.com; Bryon Martin ; Charlie Rock ; Chris Lakin ; Chris Moon ; Craig Buckles ; Dan Curtis ; Dave Snow ; David Lockhart ; David Rosenblatt ; Eric Henderson ; Eugene Villa ; Evan Krause ; Frank DelGiudice ; Fred Klatt ; Gary Stephens ; Gary Switala ; Jack (Ruohan) Li ; Jeff Aranyos ; Jim Chaffee ; Joe Burzinski ; John DeLuca ; John Konneker ; John Petterson ; John Snow ; Jules Kopielski ; Lana ; Larry Larsen ; Lou Matuska ; Mark Atwood ; Marv Ingerson ; Matt DelGiudice ; Michael Dorna ; Michael Flemming ; Michael Griffith ; Mickey Losardo ; Mike Darr ; Mike Klein ; Mike McConville ; Mike Mueller ; Rick Aranyos ; Rob Satalino ; Robert Green ; Ron Williams ; Tim Olson ; Tim Pazara ; Tom Gilkey ; Tom Solar ; Tom Weedon ; Tony Lanzaratta ; Tony Leveling ; Verne Koester ; Vicente. Bortone ; Tim Jesky Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05:41 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9.? Reply to me (getterflash at yahoo.com)? or Tim Jesky .? Thanks. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jzeigenfus at comcast.net Wed Jul 22 17:22:28 2009 From: jzeigenfus at comcast.net (jzeigenfus at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:22:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Contestant info revised with pilot sheet attached In-Reply-To: <269674363.4597281248312121465.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <954769996.4597351248312147153.JavaMail.root@sz0093a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Her you go Chris Thanks. JEZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "krishlan fitzsimmons" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2009 9:40:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Contestant info revised with pilot sheet attached Please fill this out if you have not already sent me your info. Thanks!!!!!! Chris _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Pilot Information - 2009.doc Type: application/x-ole-storage Size: 20992 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 22 17:58:48 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 01:58:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Message-ID: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sponge Bob!!!!!!!!! --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > From: Anthony Abdullah > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:58 PM > I > will absolutely be there. I don't know if I will be > flying the ugly duckling or an electric Black Magic, or an > Integral, but Margretta and I will be there representing the > Green Team! > ? > Anthony > > > > > > From: Bob > Kane > To: > nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; airsplatt at aol.com; Bill > Ahrens ; Bill Brittain > ; Bill Gregg > ; Bill Pritchett > ; Bob Hartwig > ; Bob Kane > ; > Brenner_M_Sharp at whirlpool.com; Bryon Martin > ; Charlie Rock > ; Chris Lakin > ; Chris Moon > ; Craig Buckles > ; Dan Curtis > ; Dave Snow > ; David Lockhart > ; David Rosenblatt > ; Eric Henderson > ; Eugene Villa > ; Evan Krause > ; Frank DelGiudice > ; Fred Klatt > ; Gary Stephens > ; Gary Switala > ; Jack (Ruohan) Li > ; Jeff Aranyos > ; Jim Chaffee > ; Joe Burzinski > ; John DeLuca > ; John Konneker > ; John Petterson > ; John Snow > ; Jules Kopielski > ; Lana > ; Larry Larsen > ; Lou Matuska > ; Mark Atwood > ; Marv Ingerson > ; Matt DelGiudice > ; Michael Dorna > ; Michael Flemming > ; > Michael Griffith ; Mickey > Losardo ; Mike Darr > ; Mike Klein > ; Mike McConville > ; Mike Mueller > ; Rick Aranyos > ; Rob Satalino > ; Robert Green > ; Ron Williams > ; Tim Olson > ; Tim Pazara > ; Tom Gilkey > ; Tom Solar > ; Tom Weedon > ; Tony Lanzaratta > ; Tony Leveling > ; Verne Koester > ; Vicente. Bortone > ; Tim Jesky > > Sent: > Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05:41 AM > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > > > We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on > attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9.? Reply > to me (getterflash at yahoo.com)? > or Tim Jesky .? > Thanks. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From Timjesky at charter.net Wed Jul 22 18:12:38 2009 From: Timjesky at charter.net (Tim Jesky) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 02:12:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 References: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201ca0b3b$0a931db0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> Mike, Contact me off list when you get a chance. Tim timjesky at charter.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Sponge Bob!!!!!!!!! --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > From: Anthony Abdullah > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:58 PM > I > will absolutely be there. I don't know if I will be > flying the ugly duckling or an electric Black Magic, or an > Integral, but Margretta and I will be there representing the > Green Team! > > Anthony > > > > > > From: Bob > Kane > To: > nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; airsplatt at aol.com; Bill > Ahrens ; Bill Brittain > ; Bill Gregg > ; Bill Pritchett > ; Bob Hartwig > ; Bob Kane > ; > Brenner_M_Sharp at whirlpool.com; Bryon Martin > ; Charlie Rock > ; Chris Lakin > ; Chris Moon > ; Craig Buckles > ; Dan Curtis > ; Dave Snow > ; David Lockhart > ; David Rosenblatt > ; Eric Henderson > ; Eugene Villa > ; Evan Krause > ; Frank DelGiudice > ; Fred Klatt > ; Gary Stephens > ; Gary Switala > ; Jack (Ruohan) Li > ; Jeff Aranyos > ; Jim Chaffee > ; Joe Burzinski > ; John DeLuca > ; John Konneker > ; John Petterson > ; John Snow > ; Jules Kopielski > ; Lana > ; Larry Larsen > ; Lou Matuska > ; Mark Atwood > ; Marv Ingerson > ; Matt DelGiudice > ; Michael Dorna > ; Michael Flemming > ; > Michael Griffith ; Mickey > Losardo ; Mike Darr > ; Mike Klein > ; Mike McConville > ; Mike Mueller > ; Rick Aranyos > ; Rob Satalino > ; Robert Green > ; Ron Williams > ; Tim Olson > ; Tim Pazara > ; Tom Gilkey > ; Tom Solar > ; Tom Weedon > ; Tony Lanzaratta > ; Tony Leveling > ; Verne Koester > ; Vicente. Bortone > ; Tim Jesky > > Sent: > Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05:41 AM > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > > > We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on > attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9. Reply > to me (getterflash at yahoo.com) > or Tim Jesky . > Thanks. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mwaustin54 at cox.net Wed Jul 22 19:38:45 2009 From: mwaustin54 at cox.net (mwaustin54 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 03:38:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed Message-ID: <20090722233845.34NO3.176413.imail@fed1rmwml42> All, Anyone have a set of Bolly F3A Large landing gear they would like to sell? OR is there a satisfactory replacement out there that's tried and tested for pattern planes. Email me offline: mwaustin54 at cox.net Thanks, Mike Austin D7 NSRCA 3555 From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 22 19:41:59 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 03:41:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed In-Reply-To: <20090722233845.34NO3.176413.imail@fed1rmwml42> Message-ID: <794792.41422.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Try the stuff from Chris moon. Seems good on my Emotion kit. Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/22/09, mwaustin54 at cox.net wrote: From: mwaustin54 at cox.net Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 8:38 PM All, Anyone have a set of Bolly F3A Large landing gear they would like to sell? OR is there a satisfactory replacement out there that's tried and tested for pattern planes. Email me offline: mwaustin54 at cox.net Thanks, Mike Austin D7 NSRCA 3555 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwaustin54 at cox.net Wed Jul 22 19:51:53 2009 From: mwaustin54 at cox.net (mwaustin54) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 03:51:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed References: <794792.41422.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Chris !!! BTW - love the new Airtronics radio. I have it all programed in my Focus, very simple. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: krishlan fitzsimmons To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed Try the stuff from Chris moon. Seems good on my Emotion kit. Chris --- On Wed, 7/22/09, mwaustin54 at cox.net wrote: From: mwaustin54 at cox.net Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 8:38 PM All, Anyone have a set of Bolly F3A Large landing gear they would like to sell? OR is there a satisfactory replacement out there that's tried and tested for pattern planes. Email me offline: mwaustin54 at cox.net Thanks, Mike Austin D7 NSRCA 3555 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Wed Jul 22 21:14:30 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:14:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <68659.78234.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cool. I was shocked at how simple the programming is. And how much programming there is available. I love this radio already. Just have to get used to it fully now. lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/22/09, mwaustin54 wrote: From: mwaustin54 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 8:51 PM Thanks Chris !!! BTW - love the new Airtronics radio. I have it all programed in my Focus, very simple. ? Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: krishlan fitzsimmons To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:41 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed Try the stuff from Chris moon. Seems good on my Emotion kit. Chris ? ? ? --- On Wed, 7/22/09, mwaustin54 at cox.net wrote: From: mwaustin54 at cox.net Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 8:38 PM All, Anyone have a set of Bolly F3A Large landing gear they would like to sell? OR is there a satisfactory replacement out there that's tried and tested for pattern planes. Email me offline: mwaustin54 at cox.net Thanks, Mike Austin D7 NSRCA 3555 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seefo at san.rr.com Wed Jul 22 22:54:59 2009 From: seefo at san.rr.com (Doug Cronkhite) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 06:54:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed In-Reply-To: <68659.78234.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <68659.78234.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A68093A.7070400@san.rr.com> Now if I can just convince Mark to send me one so I can check it out.. :) -Doug krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > Cool. > > I was shocked at how simple the programming is. And how much > programming there is available. I love this radio already. Just have > to get used to it fully now. lol > > */Chris /* > > > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/22/09, mwaustin54 //* wrote: > > > From: mwaustin54 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 8:51 PM > > Thanks Chris !!! > BTW - love the new Airtronics radio. I have it all programed in my > Focus, very simple. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* krishlan fitzsimmons > > *To:* General pattern discussion > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 22, 2009 8:41 PM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed > > Try the stuff from Chris moon. Seems good on my Emotion kit. > > */Chris /* > > > > > > --- On *Wed, 7/22/09, mwaustin54 at cox.net > / >/* wrote: > > > From: mwaustin54 at cox.net > > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 8:38 PM > > All, > Anyone have a set of Bolly F3A Large landing gear they > would like to sell? > OR is there a satisfactory replacement out there that's > tried and tested for pattern planes. Email me offline: > mwaustin54 at cox.net > > Thanks, > Mike Austin > D7 > NSRCA 3555 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wilsorc at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 05:54:19 2009 From: wilsorc at gmail.com (Bob Wilson) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 13:54:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT LAKE PATTERN RENDEZVOUS Message-ID: <888fdd980907230654w1319113an69d4d1fb1159d70e@mail.gmail.com> All, August 1st and 2nd marks the first annual Peoria, Illinois pattern event...the Fat Lake Pattern Rendezvous. *Why "Fat Lake"? Because it's easy to remember! More importantly, however, it identifies the widening of the Illinois River at Peoria that the Indians called "Pimiteoui". Pimiteoui translates to "Fat Lake" and describes the abundance of game in the area.* See the flyer at our website: http://www.peoriarcmodelers.com/index.html ** *The Fat Lake Pattern Rendezvous welcomes new pattern fliers in the Sportsman Class. Any airplane is eligible to compete in this class and veteran pattern fliers will be more than happy to provide guidance. Give it a try!* On Friday evening there is open flying at the field for anyone arriving early. The field GPS location is as follows: N40 51.844' W89 33.788' On Friday night we will have "Happy Hour" at "Bernardi's Restaurant". The address is: 12200 North Brentfield Drive in Dunlap, Illinois. On Saturday, registration begins at 8:30, competition begins at 10:00. Lunch for all pilots is provided. After competition on Saturday we will have a "Cookout on the Lake" beginning at 6 pm. Terry Beachler will host this function at his house on the Illinois River. Here is the address and GPS information. 11850 N Riverview Rd Chillicothe IL 61523-9119 N 40 49.944 W 89 33.230 On Sunday we will try and get competition underway as soon as possible, but no later than 10:00 am. **We at PRCM look forward to seeing everyone. Bob Wilson Contest CD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 23 06:11:49 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:11:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <498186.98291.qm@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Oh yes, Sponge Bob will be represented with pride ?There may even be another surprise wardrobe change in the works. We will see if my contact at the national scrub manufacturing consortium will come through. ________________________________ From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:58:46 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Sponge Bob!!!!!!!!! --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > From: Anthony Abdullah > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:58 PM > I > will absolutely be there. I don't know if I will be > flying the ugly duckling or an electric Black Magic, or an > Integral, but Margretta and I will be there representing the > Green Team! > ? > Anthony > > > > > > From: Bob > Kane > To: > nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; airsplatt at aol.com; Bill > Ahrens ; Bill Brittain > ; Bill Gregg > ; Bill Pritchett > ; Bob Hartwig > ; Bob Kane > ; > Brenner_M_Sharp at whirlpool.com; Bryon Martin > ; Charlie Rock > ; Chris Lakin > ; Chris Moon > ; Craig Buckles > ; Dan Curtis > ; Dave Snow > ; David Lockhart > ; David Rosenblatt > ; Eric Henderson > ; Eugene Villa > ; Evan Krause >? ; Frank DelGiudice > ; Fred Klatt > ; Gary Stephens > ; Gary Switala > ; Jack (Ruohan) Li > ; Jeff Aranyos > ; Jim Chaffee > ; Joe Burzinski > ; John DeLuca > ; John Konneker > ; John Petterson > ; John Snow > ; Jules Kopielski > ; Lana > ; Larry Larsen > ; Lou Matuska > ; Mark Atwood > ; Marv Ingerson > ; Matt DelGiudice > ; Michael Dorna > ; Michael Flemming > ; >? Michael Griffith ; Mickey > Losardo ; Mike Darr > ; Mike Klein > ; Mike McConville > ; Mike Mueller > ; Rick Aranyos > ; Rob Satalino > ; Robert Green > ; Ron Williams > ; Tim Olson > ; Tim Pazara > ; Tom Gilkey > ; Tom Solar > ; Tom Weedon > ; Tony Lanzaratta > ; Tony Leveling > ; Verne Koester > ; Vicente. Bortone > ; Tim Jesky > > Sent: > Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05:41 AM > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > > > We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on > attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9.? Reply > to me (getterflash at yahoo.com)? > or Tim Jesky .? > Thanks. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 23 06:13:23 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:13:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <001201ca0b3b$0a931db0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> References: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <001201ca0b3b$0a931db0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> Message-ID: <163753.62770.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tim, I managed to leave Chicago with no world team apparal. If it is not too late please bring a T-Shirt and one of the stickers along for me. Thank you Anthony Gooooo Team USA ________________________________ From: Tim Jesky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:12:33 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Mike, Contact me off list when you get a chance. Tim timjesky at charter.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Sponge Bob!!!!!!!!! --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > From: Anthony Abdullah > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:58 PM > I > will absolutely be there. I don't know if I will be > flying the ugly duckling or an electric Black Magic, or an > Integral, but Margretta and I will be there representing the > Green Team! > > Anthony > > > > > > From: Bob > Kane > To: > nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; airsplatt at aol.com; Bill > Ahrens ; Bill Brittain > ; Bill Gregg > ; Bill Pritchett > ; Bob Hartwig > ; Bob Kane > ; > Brenner_M_Sharp at whirlpool.com; Bryon Martin > ; Charlie Rock > ; Chris Lakin > ; Chris Moon > ; Craig Buckles > ; Dan Curtis > ; Dave Snow > ; David Lockhart > ; David Rosenblatt > ; Eric Henderson > ; Eugene Villa > ; Evan Krause >? ; Frank DelGiudice > ; Fred Klatt > ; Gary Stephens > ; Gary Switala > ; Jack (Ruohan) Li > ; Jeff Aranyos > ; Jim Chaffee > ; Joe Burzinski > ; John DeLuca > ; John Konneker > ; John Petterson > ; John Snow > ; Jules Kopielski > ; Lana > ; Larry Larsen > ; Lou Matuska > ; Mark Atwood > ; Marv Ingerson > ; Matt DelGiudice > ; Michael Dorna > ; Michael Flemming > ; >? Michael Griffith ; Mickey > Losardo ; Mike Darr > ; Mike Klein > ; Mike McConville > ; Mike Mueller > ; Rick Aranyos > ; Rob Satalino > ; Robert Green > ; Ron Williams > ; Tim Olson > ; Tim Pazara > ; Tom Gilkey > ; Tom Solar > ; Tom Weedon > ; Tony Lanzaratta > ; Tony Leveling > ; Verne Koester > ; Vicente. Bortone > ; Tim Jesky > > Sent: > Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05:41 AM > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > > > We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on > attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9. Reply > to me (getterflash at yahoo.com) or Tim Jesky . Thanks. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iflyrc24 at gmail.com Thu Jul 23 06:17:28 2009 From: iflyrc24 at gmail.com (iflyrc24 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:17:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <498186.98291.qm@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><498186.98291.qm@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1367249345-1248358642-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-877339416-@bxe1034.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I would hope there is no wardrobe malfunction planned :o Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Abdullah Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:11:47 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 23 06:19:07 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:19:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <1367249345-1248358642-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-877339416-@bxe1034.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><498186.98291.qm@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1367249345-1248358642-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-877339416-@bxe1034.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <246152.48632.qm@web82106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> None planned but you never know. I will have my ass less chaps on underneath just in case. ________________________________ From: "iflyrc24 at gmail.com" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:17:25 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 I would hope there is no wardrobe malfunction planned :o Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Abdullah Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:11:47 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Thu Jul 23 06:29:43 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:29:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Message-ID: <308796.49780.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Oh boy. TMI ! No wonder we don't have very many women at Pattern contests. This kind of stuff would scare anyone away! LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Thu, 7/23/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 To: iflyrc24 at gmail.com, "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 23, 2009, 10:19 AM None planned but you never know. I will have my ass less chaps on underneath just in case. From: "iflyrc24 at gmail.com" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:17:25 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 I would hope there is no wardrobe malfunction planned :o Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Abdullah Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:11:47 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tocdon at netscape.net Thu Jul 23 09:10:00 2009 From: tocdon at netscape.net (tocdon at netscape.net) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:10:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] RCRC practice Jon Lowe In-Reply-To: <308796.49780.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <308796.49780.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBD9CF82410912-EFC-A8C@FWM-D13.sysops.aol.com> Jon see you this afternoon unless I am pulled to the rocket center by family.? Anyone else wants to join see you there.? P.S.? Thanks Advanced National Champion for the coaching. Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Timjesky at charter.net Thu Jul 23 09:18:22 2009 From: Timjesky at charter.net (Tim Jesky) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 17:18:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 References: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><001201ca0b3b$0a931db0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> <163753.62770.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001801ca0bb9$91b8e7b0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> Anthony, What size shirt do you need?There's only a few left. ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Abdullah To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Tim, I managed to leave Chicago with no world team apparal. If it is not too late please bring a T-Shirt and one of the stickers along for me. Thank you Anthony Gooooo Team USA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Tim Jesky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:12:33 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Mike, Contact me off list when you get a chance. Tim timjesky at charter.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Sponge Bob!!!!!!!!! --- On Wed, 7/22/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > From: Anthony Abdullah > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:58 PM > I > will absolutely be there. I don't know if I will be > flying the ugly duckling or an electric Black Magic, or an > Integral, but Margretta and I will be there representing the > Green Team! > > Anthony > > > > > > From: Bob > Kane > To: > nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; airsplatt at aol.com; Bill > Ahrens ; Bill Brittain > ; Bill Gregg > ; Bill Pritchett > ; Bob Hartwig > ; Bob Kane > ; > Brenner_M_Sharp at whirlpool.com; Bryon Martin > ; Charlie Rock > ; Chris Lakin > ; Chris Moon > ; Craig Buckles > ; Dan Curtis > ; Dave Snow > ; David Lockhart > ; David Rosenblatt > ; Eric Henderson > ; Eugene Villa > ; Evan Krause > ; Frank DelGiudice > ; Fred Klatt > ; Gary Stephens > ; Gary Switala > ; Jack (Ruohan) Li > ; Jeff Aranyos > ; Jim Chaffee > ; Joe Burzinski > ; John DeLuca > ; John Konneker > ; John Petterson > ; John Snow > ; Jules Kopielski > ; Lana > ; Larry Larsen > ; Lou Matuska > ; Mark Atwood > ; Marv Ingerson > ; Matt DelGiudice > ; Michael Dorna > ; Michael Flemming > ; > Michael Griffith ; Mickey > Losardo ; Mike Darr > ; Mike Klein > ; Mike McConville > ; Mike Mueller > ; Rick Aranyos > ; Rob Satalino > ; Robert Green > ; Ron Williams > ; Tim Olson > ; Tim Pazara > ; Tom Gilkey > ; Tom Solar > ; Tom Weedon > ; Tony Lanzaratta > ; Tony Leveling > ; Verne Koester > ; Vicente. Bortone > ; Tim Jesky > > Sent: > Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05:41 AM > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > > > We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on > attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9. Reply > to me (getterflash at yahoo.com) or Tim Jesky . Thanks. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Thu Jul 23 10:39:41 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:39:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal pages back in business ... Message-ID: <4A68AE60.7000002@canisius.edu> PayPal is taking funds for the NSRCA again. I just saw a registration come through. Which reminds me--time to close the raffle page ... Marty From anthonyr105 at hotmail.com Thu Jul 23 10:41:20 2009 From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com (Anthony Romano) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:41:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal pages back in business ... In-Reply-To: <4A68AE60.7000002@canisius.edu> References: <4A68AE60.7000002@canisius.edu> Message-ID: Hi Marty, Thanks again for all of your effort on the webpage. Missed you at the Nats this year. Anthony Romano > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:39:28 -0400 > From: moleski at canisius.edu > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal pages back in business ... > > PayPal is taking funds for the NSRCA again. > > I just saw a registration come through. > > Which reminds me--time to close the raffle page ... > > Marty > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Thu Jul 23 10:46:14 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 18:46:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] PayPal pages back in business ... In-Reply-To: References: <4A68AE60.7000002@canisius.edu> Message-ID: <4A68AFEB.2090904@canisius.edu> Anthony Romano wrote: > Thanks again for all of your effort on the webpage. My pleasure. I've learned a lot. :-O > Missed you at the > Nats this year. I've been preoccupied with other things. Life is like that. ;o) Marty From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 23 11:30:35 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:30:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <001801ca0bb9$91b8e7b0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> References: <239115.41729.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com><001201ca0b3b$0a931db0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> <163753.62770.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001801ca0bb9$91b8e7b0$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> Message-ID: <903198.20697.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I can do a large or an extra large. Even if you only have medium I will buy it and give it to Margretta. She won't wear it but we will still be happy to support the team. Thanks Tim ________________________________ From: Tim Jesky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 1:18:16 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 Anthony, What size shirt do you need?There's only a few left. ----- Original Message ----- >From: Anthony Abdullah >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:13 AM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > > >Tim, >I managed to leave Chicago with no world team apparal. If it is not too late please bring a T-Shirt and one of the stickers along for me. > >Thank you >Anthony > >Gooooo Team USA > > ________________________________ From: Tim Jesky >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:12:33 PM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > >Mike, >Contact me off list when you get a chance. >Tim >timjesky at charter.net >----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" >To: "General pattern discussion" >Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 9:58 PM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 > > >Sponge Bob!!!!!!!!! > >--- On Wed, 7/22/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > >> From: Anthony Abdullah >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Wednesday, July 22, 2009, 2:58 PM >> I >> will absolutely be there. I don't know if I will be >> flying the ugly duckling or an electric Black Magic, or an >> Integral, but Margretta and I will be there representing the >> Green Team! >> >> Anthony >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Bob >> Kane >> To: >> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; airsplatt at aol.com; Bill >> Ahrens ; Bill Brittain >> ; Bill Gregg >> ; Bill Pritchett >> ; Bob Hartwig >> ; Bob Kane >> ; >> Brenner_M_Sharp at whirlpool.com; Bryon Martin >> ; Charlie Rock >> ; Chris Lakin >> ; Chris Moon >> ; Craig Buckles >> ; Dan Curtis >> ; Dave Snow >> ; David Lockhart >> ; David Rosenblatt >> ; Eric Henderson >> ; Eugene Villa >> ; Evan Krause >>? ; Frank DelGiudice >> ; Fred Klatt >> ; Gary Stephens >> ; Gary Switala >> ; Jack (Ruohan) Li >> ; Jeff Aranyos >> ; Jim Chaffee >> ; Joe Burzinski >> ; John DeLuca >> ; John Konneker >> ; John Petterson >> ; John Snow >> ; Jules Kopielski >> ; Lana >> ; Larry Larsen >> ; Lou Matuska >> ; Mark Atwood >> ; Marv Ingerson >> ; Matt DelGiudice >> ; Michael Dorna >> ; Michael Flemming >> ; >>? Michael Griffith ; Mickey >> Losardo ; Mike Darr >> ; Mike Klein >> ; Mike McConville >> ; Mike Mueller >> ; Rick Aranyos >> ; Rob Satalino >> ; Robert Green >> ; Ron Williams >> ; Tim Olson >> ; Tim Pazara >> ; Tom Gilkey >> ; Tom Solar >> ; Tom Weedon >> ; Tony Lanzaratta >> ; Tony Leveling >> ; Verne Koester >> ; Vicente. Bortone >> ; Tim Jesky >> >> Sent: >> Tuesday, July 21, 2009 8:05:41 AM >> Subject: >> [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 >> >> >> We are looking for a rough idea on how many of you plan on >> attending the Weak Signals contest August 8-9. Reply >> to me (getterflash at yahoo.com) or Tim Jesky . Thanks. >> >> Bob Kane >> getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > >? ? _______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ________________________________ _______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mkmsg at cox.net Thu Jul 23 15:53:33 2009 From: mkmsg at cox.net (MKMSG) Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:53:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed References: <20090722233845.34NO3.176413.imail@fed1rmwml42> Message-ID: <30E2E33290074783BADA1280EC20693F@usera1262bf031> www.graphtechrc.com GraphTech makes a Bolly Long replacement which they advertise as 4.9 oz. You can see it on their website. I have one coming but haven't received it yet. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:38 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed > All, > Anyone have a set of Bolly F3A Large landing gear they would like to sell? > OR is there a satisfactory replacement out there that's tried and tested > for pattern planes. Email me offline: mwaustin54 at cox.net > > Thanks, > Mike Austin > D7 > NSRCA 3555 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From mwaustin54 at cox.net Thu Jul 23 16:48:08 2009 From: mwaustin54 at cox.net (mwaustin54 at cox.net) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 00:48:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed In-Reply-To: <30E2E33290074783BADA1280EC20693F@usera1262bf031> Message-ID: <20090723204757.GLA10.459802.imail@fed1rmwml40> Found a gear !! Thanks to those that responded. Mike ---- MKMSG wrote: > www.graphtechrc.com > > GraphTech makes a Bolly Long replacement which they advertise as 4.9 oz. > You can see it on their website. I have one coming but haven't received it > yet. > > Mike > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 10:38 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Landing Gear Needed > > > > All, > > Anyone have a set of Bolly F3A Large landing gear they would like to sell? > > OR is there a satisfactory replacement out there that's tried and tested > > for pattern planes. Email me offline: mwaustin54 at cox.net > > > > Thanks, > > Mike Austin > > D7 > > NSRCA 3555 > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From rcpilot at wowway.com Thu Jul 23 17:29:06 2009 From: rcpilot at wowway.com (Ron Hansen) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:29:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <246152.48632.qm@web82106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <82C0622BA47E4631807E81F03055D7B8@toshibauser> Sponge Bob, Ass less chaps... were you in the Village People Band???? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Abdullah Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:19 AM To: iflyrc24 at gmail.com; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 None planned but you never know. I will have my ass less chaps on underneath just in case. _____ From: "iflyrc24 at gmail.com" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 10:17:25 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 I would hope there is no wardrobe malfunction planned :o Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Abdullah Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 07:11:47 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest August 8-9 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Fri Jul 24 10:07:30 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 18:07:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals Contest Hotel information Message-ID: <134837.18268.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 All Rates are based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked Comfort Inn $55 + tax 2 beds (734) 384-1500 (best rate) Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds (734) 384-1600 Holiday Inn Express $85.+ tax King or 2 double (734) 242-6000 Hampton Inn $89. King $99 .2 Queens + tax (734) 289-5700 We would like to keep the group together to get the rate rate, let me (or Tim) know if you have a strong preference one way or the other. Thanks. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From wilsorc at gmail.com Sun Jul 26 11:46:52 2009 From: wilsorc at gmail.com (Bob Wilson) Date: Sun, 26 Jul 2009 19:46:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT LAKE PATTERN RENDEZVOUS Message-ID: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com> All, August 1 & 2 marks the first annual "Fat Lake Pattern Rendezvous" sponsored by the Peoria RC Modelers (PRCM). *Why "Fat Lake"? First, because it's hard to forget. Second, it's the Indian name for that part of the Illinois River just north of Peoria. The Indians called it Pimiteoui or "Fat Lake" because of the abundant game.* The PRCM field will be open Friday evening for early arrivals want to practice. GPS address of the field is: N40 51.844, W 89 33.788 On Friday evening there will be a happy hour at "Bernardi's" on Rt. 40 starting around 6:30pm. Bernardi's address is: 12200 North Brentfield Dr., Peoria, Illinois. On Saturday morning at 6:30am competitors can meet at Bob Evans Restaurant for breakfast. 8821 North Allen Rd., Peoria, Illinois. On Saturday morning registration will begin at the field at 8:30 am. Pilots meeting will occur sometime around 9:45 and competition will begin at 10:00. On Saturday evening there will be a cook out on the lake at club member Terry Beachler's house. Address: 11850 North Riverview Rd., Chillicothe, Illinois. GPS is: N40 49.944, W89 33.230. Sunday morning will conclude with the last two rounds of competition. We will still shoot for a starting time of 10am., but try to start as soon as everyone is in attendance. Sportsman competition will be emphasized. An AMA member can fly any airplane in the Sportsman competition. Hopefully, this contest will begin to revitalize pattern in Central Illinois. Join us for a good time. See the PRCM website for additional details. http://www.peoriarcmodelers.com/index.html Bob Wilson Contest CD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Sun Jul 26 17:46:53 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:46:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears In-Reply-To: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com> References: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <902123.36332.qm@web35206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. Thanks Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Snaproll4 at aol.com Sun Jul 26 17:52:01 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:52:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Message-ID: JRPSG9411SA/JRPSG3421SA In a message dated 7/26/2009 9:47:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, brian_w_young at yahoo.com writes: Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. Thanks Brian _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585106x1201462830/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warrior523 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 26 17:59:32 2009 From: warrior523 at mchsi.com (Dan) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 01:59:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears References: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com> <902123.36332.qm@web35206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001f01ca0e5d$da5d85b0$6500a8c0@warrior> Brian, Just drop the number 4 out of the part number. 911 gear set and 321 gear set. When I worked at a hobby shop every time we ordered the two sets with the 4 included they would come back as out of stock. 911 and 321 will get you fixed up. Dan Curtis ----- Original Message ----- From: brian young To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:46 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. Thanks Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From warrior523 at mchsi.com Sun Jul 26 19:51:42 2009 From: warrior523 at mchsi.com (Dan) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 03:51:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Columbia Contest Message-ID: <000701ca0e6d$7feb1f60$6500a8c0@warrior> Just a quick shout out to Jeff Buchner and the Mid Missouri RC Club for hosting another fun filled contest this past weekend. Field in perfect shape and the weather was terrific. Relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere with strong and sporting competition. Thanks for having us and a job well done. Dan Curtis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Mon Jul 27 04:02:00 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:02:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Columbia Contest In-Reply-To: <000701ca0e6d$7feb1f60$6500a8c0@warrior> Message-ID: <1750220857.5649891248696114802.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I second Dan.? The Columbia contest?could not be better.? Thanks again Jeff. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan" To: " NSRCA Mailing List" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 10:51:18 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [ NSRCA -discussion] Columbia Contest Just a quick shout out to Jeff Buchner and the Mid Missouri RC Club for hosting another fun filled contest this past weekend.? Field in perfect shape and the weather was terrific.? Relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere with strong and sporting competition.? Thanks for having us and a job well done. Dan Curtis _______________________________________________ NSRCA -discussion mailing list NSRCA -discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 04:07:30 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:07:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears In-Reply-To: <001f01ca0e5d$da5d85b0$6500a8c0@warrior> References: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com> <902123.36332.qm@web35206.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001f01ca0e5d$da5d85b0$6500a8c0@warrior> Message-ID: <279034.21403.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I was thinking there was a gear package that didn't?include the metal gear, cost $5 instead of$19. Im sure I have stripped the plastic gears. Brian ________________________________ From: Dan To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:59:17 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Brian, ? Just drop the number 4 out of the part number.? 911 gear set and 321 gear set.? When I worked at a hobby shop every time we ordered the two sets with the 4 included they would come back as out of stock.? 911 and 321 will get you fixed up. ? Dan Curtis ----- Original Message ----- >From: brian young >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:46 PM >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears > > >Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. > >Thanks >Brian > > ________________________________ _______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Mon Jul 27 04:27:11 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:27:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears In-Reply-To: <279034.21403.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com><902123.36332.qm@web35206.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001f01ca0e5d$da5d85b0$6500a8c0@warrior> <279034.21403.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBDCCCA6F4B23F-1414-5BC7@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> JRPSG321 for the DS 3421, and JRPSG911 for the DS 9411. These are just the plastic gears. Horizon shows out of stock on the JRPS911 set, but Graves RC in Orlando shows a set in stock. http://www.gravesrc.com/JR_GEAR_SET_S911_S9011_p/jrpsg911.htm Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: brian young To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon, Jul 27, 2009 7:07 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears I was thinking there was a gear package that didn't?include the metal gear, cost $5 instead of$19. Im sure I have stripped the plastic gears. Brian ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dan To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:59:17 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Brian, ? Just drop the number 4 out of the part number.? 911 gear set and 321 gear set.? When I worked at a hobby shop every time we ordered the two sets with the 4 included they would come back as out of stock.? 911 and 321 will get you fixed up. ? Dan Curtis ----- Original Message ----- From: brian young To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 200 9 8:46 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. Thanks Brian _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From kenkaut at cox.net Mon Jul 27 05:15:40 2009 From: kenkaut at cox.net (Ken Kaut) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:15:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears In-Reply-To: <279034.21403.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com><902123.36332.qm@web35206.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001f01ca0e5d$da5d85b0$6500a8c0@warrior><279034.21403.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <939805456-1248700536-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-510078074-@bxe1100.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Gear set JRPSG321 is just the plastic gears. Last set I got was 3.95. I have a set if you need them quickly :) -Ken Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: brian young Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 05:07:29 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From troy at troynewman.net Mon Jul 27 05:33:37 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 13:33:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears In-Reply-To: <279034.21403.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <888fdd980907261246if4872eby45abecef856a00cb@mail.gmail.com><902123.36332.qm@web35206.mail.mud.yahoo.com><001f01ca0e5d$da5d85b0$6500a8c0@warrior> <279034.21403.qm@web35203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Brian, If you have trouble finding some in stock at HH or Central Hobbies probably has them as well. If you hit a brick wall I think I have a set for each. Contact me off list with a phone number. I think I have a set of each in my shop. I'll have to check tonight when I get home. Troy Newman From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:07 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears I was thinking there was a gear package that didn't include the metal gear, cost $5 instead of$19. Im sure I have stripped the plastic gears. Brian ________________________________ From: Dan To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:59:17 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Brian, Just drop the number 4 out of the part number. 911 gear set and 321 gear set. When I worked at a hobby shop every time we ordered the two sets with the 4 included they would come back as out of stock. 911 and 321 will get you fixed up. Dan Curtis ----- Original Message ----- From: brian young To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 8:46 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. Thanks Brian ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Mon Jul 27 08:47:15 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:47:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Message-ID: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Brian, ? How many of jrpsg911 and jrpsg321 do you need? I have two sets each. the pictures at Horizon shows incorrectly.? Actual gear set includes only one set, not two sets. ? Ihncheol --- On Sun, 7/26/09, brian young wrote: From: brian young Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:46 PM Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. Thanks Brian -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 09:01:26 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:01:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears In-Reply-To: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <68055.50626.qm@web35201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I need to check what I have at home, I think I have the 911 and need the 321. I will let you know this evening or tommorrow. Brian ________________________________ From: Ihncheol Park To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 11:47:12 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears Brian, How many of jrpsg911 and jrpsg321 do you need? I have two sets each. the pictures at Horizon shows incorrectly.? Actual gear set includes only one set, not two sets. Ihncheol --- On Sun, 7/26/09, brian young wrote: >From: brian young >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR Servo Gears >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Sunday, July 26, 2009, 8:46 PM > > >Can someone remind me what that plastic gear set part number is for the 9411sa and 3421sa is? I stripped a couple. > >Thanks >Brian > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Mon Jul 27 09:57:51 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:57:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? From astafford at swtexas.net Mon Jul 27 10:07:24 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:07:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> References: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> Message-ID: <00da01ca0ee5$00d8d370$028a7a50$@net> This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close. In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Jul 27 10:44:34 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:44:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Message-ID: <252095.52369.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not?IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG ? Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( ? My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM This is not a rule in pattern.? There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air.? If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either.? I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close.? In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane.? Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine.? I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air.? Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Mon Jul 27 13:05:45 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:05:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <252095.52369.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <252095.52369.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501ca0efd$ff4076d0$fdc16470$@rr.com> >From the AMA Rulebook: 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. Hope this helps though it's little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close. In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Mon Jul 27 13:16:25 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:16:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <001501ca0efd$ff4076d0$fdc16470$@rr.com> References: <252095.52369.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501ca0efd$ff4076d0$fdc16470$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4A6E1927.2030604@cox.net> No idea how I missed that. I guess I need to enlarge the font!! Yikes!! Thanks. That is all I was looking for Verne Koester wrote: > > From the AMA Rulebook: > > > > *10.3: *In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the > contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume > their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be > airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with > the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver > if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined > starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will > be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the > purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will > be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. > The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or > within a time frame designated by the CD. > > > > Hope this helps though it's little comfort when put to use, > > Verne Koester > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Jul 27 13:32:28 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:32:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Message-ID: <55542.82451.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Wow,?I didn't see this rule either. I've never actually seen?it put to use. Every time I've witnessed a midair, whoever was involved either landed immediately or picked up the pieces and flew another plane in the next round. I've never seen someone try to resume a flight from the point of a midair. ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 5:16 PM No idea how I missed that. I guess I need to enlarge the font!! Yikes!! Thanks. That is all I was looking for Verne Koester wrote: >From the AMA Rulebook: ? 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. ? Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester ?? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Mon Jul 27 13:32:43 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:32:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <712546487.5897671248729978459.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1854477833.5900081248730362961.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Hi Verne, You are correct.? I had a collision two years ago at the Nats .? I was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get me time to be ready.? The main problem for the pilot after this event is that we pay more attention to the other plane.? It is very hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation.? It is practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance.? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester " < verne @ twmi . rr .com> To: jpavlick @ idseng .com, "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks >From the AMA Rulebook: 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester From: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org [mailto: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not?IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM This is not a rule in pattern.? There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air.? If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either.? I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close.? In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane.? Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine.? I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air.? Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org [mailto: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org ] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/listinfo/ nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/listinfo/ nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/listinfo/ nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Mon Jul 27 13:35:48 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:35:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <001501ca0efd$ff4076d0$fdc16470$@rr.com> References: <252095.52369.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501ca0efd$ff4076d0$fdc16470$@rr.com> Message-ID: Verne, Someone stated the rulebook allows the maneuver to be displaced for the sun. Can you point me in that direction? JLK From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: jpavlick at idseng.com; nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:05:39 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks >From the AMA Rulebook: 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close. In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From js.smith at verizon.net Mon Jul 27 13:38:22 2009 From: js.smith at verizon.net (Scott Smith) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:38:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <55542.82451.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <55542.82451.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201ca0f02$770332d0$65099870$@smith@verizon.net> Sure you did?Ken at Black Dirt! From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:32 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Wow, I didn't see this rule either. I've never actually seen it put to use. Every time I've witnessed a midair, whoever was involved either landed immediately or picked up the pieces and flew another plane in the next round. I've never seen someone try to resume a flight from the point of a midair. John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 5:16 PM No idea how I missed that. I guess I need to enlarge the font!! Yikes!! Thanks. That is all I was looking for Verne Koester wrote: >From the AMA Rulebook: 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Mon Jul 27 13:53:13 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 21:53:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: References: <252095.52369.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501ca0efd$ff4076d0$fdc16470$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4A6E21C8.8010909@cox.net> John Konneker wrote: > Verne, > Someone stated the rulebook allows the maneuver to be displaced for > the sun. > Can you point me in that direction? > JLK > That was me. AMA RC PATTERN JUDGES GUIDE B. Principles: c. Positioning. Page RCA-17 (top left column) The diagrams used to describe the maneuvers in section E are intended to represent the geometry of the maneuver three-dimensionally. They are not intended to define the best view of the maneuver to present to the judge. --End on? or --canted? presentation of maneuvers is reason for downgrading and should be avoided, *unless the maneuver is intentionally offset (with permission of the judges) to avoid the sun. * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Mon Jul 27 15:09:15 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 23:09:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <4A6E21C8.8010909@cox.net> References: <252095.52369.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501ca0efd$ff4076d0$fdc16470$@rr.com> <4A6E21C8.8010909@cox.net> Message-ID: Thanks! JLK Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 14:53:12 -0700 From: wemodels at cox.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks John Konneker wrote: Verne, Someone stated the rulebook allows the maneuver to be displaced for the sun. Can you point me in that direction? JLK That was me. AMA RC PATTERN JUDGES GUIDE B. Principles: c. Positioning. Page RCA-17 (top left column) The diagrams used to describe the maneuvers in section E are intended to represent the geometry of the maneuver three-dimensionally. They are not intended to define the best view of the maneuver to present to the judge. ?DEnd on?? or ?Dcanted?? presentation of maneuvers is reason for downgrading and should be avoided, unless the maneuver is intentionally offset (with permission of the judges) to avoid the sun. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 16:29:41 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 00:29:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Message-ID: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some research today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when considering cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds (734) 384-1600 Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From jtarpinian at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 18:07:56 2009 From: jtarpinian at yahoo.com (john tarpinian) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:07:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Contestant info revised with pilot sheet attached Message-ID: <32677.72703.qm@web51408.mail.re2.yahoo.com> R/C Precision Aerobatics Nationals - 2009 Pilot Information Sheet ? ? Pilot Name:? ??? ??????????? John_Tarpinian__________________________________________________ Class:?????????????? ??????????? ______ADV________________________________ NSRCA Member:??????????? YES Aircraft Name:??????????? ___Prestige___________________________________ Weight: ??????????? ___10.6________________ Motor:????????????? ??????????? _____Neu F3A_________________________________ Propeller:????????? ??????????? ___APC 20.5x14E___________________________________ Speed Control:??????????? _______Jeti Spin 99_______________________________ Battery:??????????? ??????????? ___Hyperion CX 5000 25C___________________________________ Fuel:???????????????? ??????????? ______________________________________ Radio TX:??????? ??????????? ____Futaba 12FG__________________________________ Radio RX:??????? ??????????? ____Futaba? R608FS_______________________________ RX Battery:????? ??????????? ____TP 2S 480 Prolite V2(two of these in parallel)__________________________________ Elevator Servo:??????????? _____Airtronics94758Z ? _________________________________ Aileron Servo:? ??????????? _______JR9411SA_______________________________ Rudder Servo:? ??????????? ___JR8411SA___________________________________ Throttle Servo:??????????? ______________________________________ --- On Tue, 7/21/09, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: From: krishlan fitzsimmons Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats Contestant info revised with pilot sheet attached To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Tuesday, July 21, 2009, 9:40 PM Please fill this out if you have not already sent me your info. Thanks!!!!!! Chris ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Jul 27 18:26:54 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:26:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <55542.82451.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <224830.2966.qm@web1115.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I have seen this rule used. In fact, someone flying MY plane had a midair and continued the round with another plane. ? It is interesting to note that the other person in this incident did not think he was in a midair, but even though he was told several times that he WAS in a midair, he finished flying his round anyway (in violation of the rule??). If the judges knew he was involved in a midair, should they stop judging the round, according to the rule? ? Bob R. --- On Mon, 7/27/09, John Pavlick wrote: Wow,?I didn't see this rule either. I've never actually seen?it put to use. Every time I've witnessed a midair, whoever was involved either landed immediately or picked up the pieces and flew another plane in the next round. I've never seen someone try to resume a flight from the point of a midair. ? John Pavlick ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From 1shinden at att.net Mon Jul 27 19:12:42 2009 From: 1shinden at att.net (Mike Howard) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:12:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Columbia Contest Message-ID: <931221.98379.qm@web81107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ditto, Thanks to Jeff, Sandy and Robert and all the Mid Missouri gang for a great contest.? Always a lot of fun and great competition. ? ? Mike --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Dan wrote: From: Dan Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Columbia Contest To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 3:51 AM Just a quick shout out to Jeff Buchner and the Mid Missouri RC Club for hosting another fun filled contest this past weekend.? Field in perfect shape and the weather was terrific.? Relaxed and enjoyable atmosphere with strong and sporting competition.? Thanks for having us and a job well done. ? Dan Curtis -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Mon Jul 27 19:29:34 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:29:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <1854477833.5900081248730362961.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <712546487.5897671248729978459.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1854477833.5900081248730362961.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <004201ca0f33$9e4dd490$dae97db0$@rr.com> I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I?ve had nine mid-airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. Contests are the only time I?ll even fly with another plane in the air and that?s only if it?s an actual scored round. A few mid-airs will do that to ya. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Hi Verne, You are correct. I had a collision two years ago at the Nats. I was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get me time to be ready. The main problem for the pilot after this event is that we pay more attention to the other plane. It is very hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation. It is practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks >From the AMA Rulebook: 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close. In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Mon Jul 27 20:32:51 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 04:32:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <004201ca0f33$9e4dd490$dae97db0$@rr.com> References: <712546487.5897671248729978459.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1854477833.5900081248730362961.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <004201ca0f33$9e4dd490$dae97db0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <393054.14998.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> did that buzzard survive...... ________________________________ From: Verne Koester To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I?ve had nine mid-airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. Contests are the only time I?ll even fly with another plane in the air and that?s only if it?s an actual scored round. A few mid-airs will do that to ya. Verne From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Hi Verne, You are correct. I had a collision two years ago at the Nats. I was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get me time to be ready. The main problem for the pilot after this event is that we pay more attention to the other plane. It is very hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation. It is practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks From the AMA Rulebook: 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: >> From: Archie Stafford >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" > >> Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM >This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no > way to be certain of >> an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really > aren't >> going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some that > looked >> very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when >> they didn't look that close. > >> In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen >> people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually >> turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just stayed on >> their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better off, > just >> flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens >> unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is >> virtually impossible. > >> Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. Trying > avoid >> them usually causes more problems than it solves. > >> Arch > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Bill's Email >> Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > >> I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is >> mentioned. > >> Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is >> downgraded for doing so? > >> We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot >> avoid a mid-air without penalty? > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 28 06:22:00 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:22:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <208006.55602.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I will book my room at the Baymont this evening! Thanks Anthony ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some research today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when considering cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked Baymont? Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds? (734) 384-1600 Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Tue Jul 28 12:50:48 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 20:50:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <393054.14998.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <712546487.5897671248729978459.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1854477833.5900081248730362961.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <004201ca0f33$9e4dd490$dae97db0$@rr.com> <393054.14998.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001501ca0fc5$145eede0$3d1cc9a0$@rr.com> Not sure. The guy that told me I hit him said he dropped down about 100 ft and then opened up his wings. He said one of the wings looked pretty gimpy. I was busy landing my plane to assess the damage which I later repaired. Still have the plane. At the time, someone asked me about the turkey buzzard and I said ?I hope his buddies eat him??.. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks did that buzzard survive...... _____ From: Verne Koester To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I?ve had nine mid-airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. Contests are the only time I?ll even fly with another plane in the air and that?s only if it?s an actual scored round. A few mid-airs will do that to ya. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Hi Verne, You are correct. I had a collision two years ago at the Nats. I was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get me time to be ready. The main problem for the pilot after this event is that we pay more attention to the other plane. It is very hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation. It is practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks >From the AMA Rulebook: 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close. In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Tue Jul 28 13:01:26 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 21:01:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <001501ca0fc5$145eede0$3d1cc9a0$@rr.com> References: <712546487.5897671248729978459.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1854477833.5900081248730362961.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <004201ca0f33$9e4dd490$dae97db0$@rr.com> <393054.14998.qm@web35204.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001501ca0fc5$145eede0$3d1cc9a0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <53D36302-DAF0-4760-B8F9-68B0487C6D82@cox.net> I was told by a local club member, who was flying a 60-size sport airplane, that some kind of hawk attacked his airplane. I didn't know then, but found out later, that birds of prey usually attack the head of their airborne target. The guy told me he saw the hawk swooping down and there was a sudden cloud of feathers when the hawk attacked the airplane's "head". Ron VP On Jul 28, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Verne Koester wrote: > Not sure. The guy that told me I hit him said he dropped down about > 100 ft and then opened up his wings. He said one of the wings > looked pretty gimpy. I was busy landing my plane to assess the > damage which I later repaired. Still have the plane. At the time, > someone asked me about the turkey buzzard and I said ?I hope his > buddies eat him??.. > > > > Verne > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:33 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > > > did that buzzard survive...... > > > > From: Verne Koester > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on > the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I?ve had nine mid- > airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a > mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. > Contests are the only time I?ll even fly with another plane in the > air and that?s only if it?s an actual scored round. A few mid-airs > will do that to ya. > > > > Verne > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" > Bortone > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > > > Hi Verne, > > > > You are correct. I had a collision two years ago at the Nats. I > was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get > me time to be ready. The main problem for the pilot after this > event is that we pay more attention to the other plane. It is very > hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation. It is > practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance. > > > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Verne Koester" > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > From the AMA Rulebook: > > > > 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the > contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may > resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are > judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They > will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next > scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The > previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight > and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in > front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores > of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent > maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by > the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated > by the CD. > > > > Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, > > Verne Koester > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > > > Bill, > > That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score > maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid > a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to > happen. VBG > > > > Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all > remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether > or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, > you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the > required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero > the 4-point roll. :( > > > > My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid > it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't > have to worry about it happening again. LOL > > > > John Pavlick > > --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: > > > From: Archie Stafford > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM > > This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no way to be > certain of > an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really > aren't > going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some > that looked > very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that > happened when > they didn't look that close. > > In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have > twice seen > people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and > actually > turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just > stayed on > their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better > off, just > flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens > unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is > virtually impossible. > > Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. > Trying avoid > them usually causes more problems than it solves. > > Arch > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Bill's Email > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is > mentioned. > > Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is > downgraded for doing so? > > We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you > cannot > avoid a mid-air without penalty? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion > mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http:// > lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Tue Jul 28 15:50:29 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:50:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <53D36302-DAF0-4760-B8F9-68B0487C6D82@cox.net> Message-ID: <0539F80F54584580872809F0A24ACE7D@jaysdesktop> On of our club members had a new Park Zone SU-26m, a 15" wingspan, out this past weekend. A falcon became very interested, started circling, and I thought it was going to attack. Must have looked liked a pigeon. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 5:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I was told by a local club member, who was flying a 60-size sport airplane, that some kind of hawk attacked his airplane. I didn't know then, but found out later, that birds of prey usually attack the head of their airborne target. The guy told me he saw the hawk swooping down and there was a sudden cloud of feathers when the hawk attacked the airplane's "head". Ron VP On Jul 28, 2009, at 3:50 PM, Verne Koester wrote: > Not sure. The guy that told me I hit him said he dropped down about > 100 ft and then opened up his wings. He said one of the wings > looked pretty gimpy. I was busy landing my plane to assess the > damage which I later repaired. Still have the plane. At the time, > someone asked me about the turkey buzzard and I said "I hope his > buddies eat him"... > > > > Verne > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young > Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:33 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > > > did that buzzard survive...... > > > > From: Verne Koester > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on > the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I've had nine mid- > airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a > mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. > Contests are the only time I'll even fly with another plane in the > air and that's only if it's an actual scored round. A few mid-airs > will do that to ya. > > > > Verne > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" > Bortone > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > > > Hi Verne, > > > > You are correct. I had a collision two years ago at the Nats. I > was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get > me time to be ready. The main problem for the pilot after this > event is that we pay more attention to the other plane. It is very > hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation. It is > practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance. > > > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Verne Koester" > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > From the AMA Rulebook: > > > > 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the > contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may > resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are > judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They > will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next > scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The > previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight > and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in > front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores > of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent > maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by > the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated > by the CD. > > > > Hope this helps though it's little comfort when put to use, > > Verne Koester > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > > > Bill, > > That's correct. This is Pattern, not IMAC. In order to score > maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid > a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to > happen. VBG > > > > Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all > remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether > or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, > you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the > required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero > the 4-point roll. :( > > > > My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid > it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't > have to worry about it happening again. LOL > > > > John Pavlick > > --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: > > > From: Archie Stafford > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM > > This is not a rule in pattern. There is virtually no way to be > certain of > an oncoming mid-air. If you are flying your plane then you really > aren't > going to be able to see the other plane either. I've seen some > that looked > very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that > happened when > they didn't look that close. > > In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have > twice seen > people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and > actually > turn directly into the path of the other plane. Had they just > stayed on > their line they would've been fine. I think you are much better > off, just > flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens > unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is > virtually impossible. > > Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air. > Trying avoid > them usually causes more problems than it solves. > > Arch > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Bill's Email > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks > > I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is > mentioned. > > Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is > downgraded for doing so? > > We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you > cannot > avoid a mid-air without penalty? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion > mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http:// > lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From Snaproll4 at aol.com Tue Jul 28 16:17:48 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 00:17:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Tony Romano Message-ID: Tony, Can you please send me your e-mail off list. Steve Miller **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377107x1201454434/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Tue Jul 28 17:47:04 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 01:47:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question In-Reply-To: <0539F80F54584580872809F0A24ACE7D@jaysdesktop> References: <0539F80F54584580872809F0A24ACE7D@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <80851.93169.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am trying to install a Hacker C50 14XL Comp in an Integral and have a couple of quick questions. 1. The Integral kit comes with a number of carbon fiber type mounts designed to be used with the Hacker or similar motor setups. The design is for the front and the rear of the motor to be supported by these formers. The rear one is shaped like a half circle and goes around the back of the Hacker for rear support. There are a couple different ones that could potentially be used up front, one is a circle like a nose ring that could be used and the other is shaped like a diamond and also fits the front of the gearbox and would mount to the hardwood ring on the front of the fuse. The question: Is either of those a "better" option for mounting the front of the motor? It is one or the other correct? Are they made to be doubled up and work together? I only ask because they are extremely light and I want to make sure I have the strength up front that I need. 2. There is a C clip on the front of the gear box just in front of the front bearing, Does the press fit drive washer torque down directly on that C clip or is there something that is supposed to go between that clip and the drive washer? I want to make sure before I get to cranking on the drive washer and little split bushing thing and forever press it onto that clip and bind the bearing up so it doesn't spin. TIA for any help you can give me concerning installing the Hacker in the Integral. Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Tue Jul 28 18:10:45 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 02:10:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Lamprons please contact me off list Message-ID: Please contact me off list jlachow at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ NEW mobile Hotmail. Optimized for YOUR phone. Click here. http://windowslive.com/Mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_MB_new_hotmail_072009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Tue Jul 28 19:44:00 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 03:44:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <001501ca0fc5$145eede0$3d1cc9a0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <583507.16035.qm@web1111.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> A friend of mine had a similar sounding experience.??His 35% Edge hit a buzzard with the landing gear, the buzzard fell about 100ft like it was dead, then opened his wings and flew away.? Feathers were missing from one wing. ? Only damage to the plane was a cracked wheel pant. --- On Tue, 7/28/09, Verne Koester wrote: From: Verne Koester Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Tuesday, July 28, 2009, 5:50 PM Not sure. The guy that told me I hit him said he dropped down about 100 ft and then opened up his wings. He said one of the wings looked pretty gimpy. I was busy landing my plane to assess the damage which I later repaired. Still have the plane. At the time, someone asked me about the turkey buzzard and I said ?I hope his buddies eat him??.. ? Verne ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 12:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks ? did that buzzard survive...... ? From: Verne Koester To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:29:30 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I understand completely. If you count the turkey buzzard I hit on the 4th flight on a new plane a few years back, I?ve had nine mid-airs through the years. Funny thing though, I never worry about a mid-air at the Nats and always worry about it at a local contest. Contests are the only time I?ll even fly with another plane in the air and that?s only if it?s an actual scored round. A few mid-airs will do that to ya. ? Verne ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 5:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks ? Hi Verne, ? You are correct.? I had a collision two years ago at the Nats.? I was allowed to fly my backup plane at the end of the round to get me time to be ready.? The main problem for the pilot after this event is that we pay more attention to the other plane.? It is very hard to get it out of your mind after having this situation.? It is practically impossible to avoid collisions by calling the avoidance.? ? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 4:05:39 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks >From the AMA Rulebook: ? 10.3: In the case of a collision during a Pattern flight, the contestants must immediately recover their aircraft. They may resume their flights with the same aircraft if the aircraft are judged to be airworthy or with a backup or repaired aircraft. They will begin with the maneuver that was in progress or with the next scheduled maneuver if the collision occurred between maneuvers. The previously defined starting times will apply for a resumed flight and the contestant will be allowed no more than two (2) passes in front of the judges for the purpose of trimming the plane. Scores of the previous maneuvers will be added to the scores of subsequent maneuvers in the resumed flight. The flight must be completed by the end of the round being flown, or within a time frame designated by the CD. ? Hope this helps though it?s little comfort when put to use, Verne Koester ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:45 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks ? Bill, That's correct. This is Pattern, not?IMAC. In order to score maximum points for a maneuver you CANNOT make any attempt to avoid a midair even if you're absolutely sure that one is about to happen. VBG ? Should a midair occur however, you will unfortunately zero all remaining maneuvers, as well as the landing. Depending upon whether or not you completed the maneuver during which the midair occurred, you may also lose points. For example if you complete only 2 of the required 4 points of a 4-point roll and then midair, you will zero the 4-point roll. :( ? My advice to you: if you can foresee a midair, by all means avoid it, land the plane and go buy some lottery tickets. Then you won't have to worry about it happening again. LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 7/27/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 2:06 PM This is not a rule in pattern.? There is virtually no way to be certain of an oncoming mid-air.? If you are flying your plane then you really aren't going to be able to see the other plane either.? I've seen some that looked very close, that probably really weren't and mid-air's that happened when they didn't look that close.? In IMAC where they have the rule you can call avoidance, I have twice seen people call avoidance thinking they are going to have a mid air and actually turn directly into the path of the other plane.? Had they just stayed on their line they would've been fine.? I think you are much better off, just flying and maintaining your line and if a mid air happens, it happens unfortunately, but the odds of turning away in time to avoid one is virtually impossible. Mid-airs will happen as long as there are 2 planes in the air.? Trying avoid them usually causes more problems than it solves. Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Tue Jul 28 19:54:39 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 03:54:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question In-Reply-To: <80851.93169.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <0539F80F54584580872809F0A24ACE7D@jaysdesktop> <80851.93169.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The drive washer goes next to the clip--I worried about that also, but it seems to work. You are mostly concerned with torque from the prop as the rear is supported--so about anything solidly mounted for that torque shoud work. The other thing you might have to be concerned about is how thick is the nose ring and where will the drive side of the washer end up. Solid mounting tends to transmit more noise than soft ones and I think Jerry Budd makes a nice set-up for soft--but location is still a concern. To cut down noise further, if it isn't already a little oversize, the rear mount could be enlarged to take fuel tubing as a cushion--but of course you don't want to mount it until you are all warm and fuzzy about the front mount and incidences. It's also possible to double up those front pieces with grommets for a soft(er) and slightly adjustable mounting arrangement--you might still be able to download the Impact's manual (CompARF.com I think) which shows that arrangement--but I would think it would be lurking/buried somewhere in yours. RS Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:47:02 -0700 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question I am trying to install a Hacker C50 14XL Comp in an Integral and have a couple of quick questions. 1. The Integral kit comes with a number of carbon fiber type mounts designed to be used with the Hacker or similar motor setups. The design is for the front and the rear of the motor to be supported by these formers. The rear one is shaped like a half circle and goes around the back of the Hacker for rear support. There are a couple different ones that could potentially be used up front, one is a circle like a nose ring that could be used and the other is shaped like a diamond and also fits the front of the gearbox and would mount to the hardwood ring on the front of the fuse. The question: Is either of those a "better" option for mounting the front of the motor? It is one or the other correct? Are they made to be doubled up and work together? I only ask because they are extremely light and I want to make sure I have the strength up front that I need. 2. There is a C clip on the front of the gear box just in front of the front bearing, Does the press fit drive washer torque down directly on that C clip or is there something that is supposed to go between that clip and the drive washer? I want to make sure before I get to cranking on the drive washer and little split bushing thing and forever press it onto that clip and bind the bearing up so it doesn't spin. TIA for any help you can give me concerning installing the Hacker in the Integral. Anthony _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Search, add, and share the web?s latest sports videos. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_videos_072009&cat=sports -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Tue Jul 28 19:56:48 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 03:56:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question In-Reply-To: <80851.93169.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <0539F80F54584580872809F0A24ACE7D@jaysdesktop> <80851.93169.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001ca1000$97a29720$c6e7c560$@rr.com> Anthony, First, the easy answer. The drive washer goes up against the snap ring. The ring is in a groove ground into the shaft that prevents it from being pushed back into the bearing. I use the rear former provided with the Integral which fits perfect if you line the hole with a piece of split fuel tubing. It's tight so you'll have to put some spit or a drop of oil to get the motor to slide through. Tight is what you want so don't make the hole any bigger (ahem). I have no idea how they expect you to use the front pieces. If you mount them to the ply nose ring, the front of the motor will stick out too far. OTOH, they're WAY too flimsy to use as is. I made a firewall out of 1/8" carbon/end grain balsa that gets mounted about 5/16" behind the ply ring. The motor itself is mounted to .089" carbon plate. The plate is screwed with 3 or 4 4-40's to the firewall thru aluminum bushed rubber grommets (similar to servo mounting, only bigger) which greatly reduces the sound level. I basically copied Tony Frackowiak's setup he detailed in the Electric Partner build he wrote up in RC Universe about 5 years ago. Here's the link: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1425422/mpage_1/key_partner/tm.htm Tony's write-up and photos explain the method far better than I could explain here. Good Luck! Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Abdullah Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:47 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question I am trying to install a Hacker C50 14XL Comp in an Integral and have a couple of quick questions. 1. The Integral kit comes with a number of carbon fiber type mounts designed to be used with the Hacker or similar motor setups. The design is for the front and the rear of the motor to be supported by these formers. The rear one is shaped like a half circle and goes around the back of the Hacker for rear support. There are a couple different ones that could potentially be used up front, one is a circle like a nose ring that could be used and the other is shaped like a diamond and also fits the front of the gearbox and would mount to the hardwood ring on the front of the fuse. The question: Is either of those a "better" option for mounting the front of the motor? It is one or the other correct? Are they made to be doubled up and work together? I only ask because they are extremely light and I want to make sure I have the strength up front that I need. 2. There is a C clip on the front of the gear box just in front of the front bearing, Does the press fit drive washer torque down directly on that C clip or is there something that is supposed to go between that clip and the drive washer? I want to make sure before I get to cranking on the drive washer and little split bushing thing and forever press it onto that clip and bind the bearing up so it doesn't spin. TIA for any help you can give me concerning installing the Hacker in the Integral. Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shannah1806 at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 20:02:27 2009 From: shannah1806 at gmail.com (steve hannah) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:02:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> References: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> Message-ID: Just man-up and take the hit. I've had 8 midairs (counting the hawk strike with my 35% extra), 3 during contest flights. I never saw a single one coming. Never had a caller save me either. I have the satisfaction of knowing that at least three of my airframes died in the line of duty. On Monday, July 27, 2009, Bill's Email wrote: > I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic is mentioned. > > Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision is downgraded for doing so? > > We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From wemodels at cox.net Tue Jul 28 20:09:19 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:09:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: References: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A6FCB6E.40006@cox.net> steve hannah wrote: > Just man-up and take the hit. I've had 8 midairs .......... Well my manliness aside, if you are so poor a pilot to have hit EIGHT different things while flying I guess you are used to it. For the rest of us where mid-airs are less common, I was curious what the rule was. In sort of a theoretical sense. In your case I can see that it is essentially a common occurrence. But thanks for the input!! From shannah1806 at gmail.com Tue Jul 28 20:33:55 2009 From: shannah1806 at gmail.com (steve hannah) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 04:33:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: <4A6FCB6E.40006@cox.net> References: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> <4A6FCB6E.40006@cox.net> Message-ID: It's only because I fly the perfect line at the perfect distance. Everyone aspires to stay on the same line and zone. Not like your angled and skewed line at whittier. JK folks. Bill and I are actually buddies, don't ask me why. On Tuesday, July 28, 2009, Bill's Email wrote: > steve hannah wrote: > > Just man-up and take the hit. ?I've had 8 midairs .......... > > Well my manliness aside, if you are so poor a pilot to have hit EIGHT different things while flying I guess you are used to it. > > For the rest of us where mid-airs are less common, I was curious what the rule was. In sort of a theoretical sense. In your case I can see that it is essentially a common occurrence. > > But thanks for the input!! > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From vanputte at cox.net Wed Jul 29 05:39:41 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:39:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Collision Avoidance Breaks In-Reply-To: References: <561467.65560.qm@web83901.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <4A6DEA9D.2060700@cox.net> Message-ID: <92E84F65-25D9-44C9-ACDF-3FC47D8F62AD@cox.net> I've had seven midairs. All but one were with sport pilots. The last attacker was a giant sailplane, which sought out and viciously attacked my tiny GWS Beaver. Sob! Ron On Jul 28, 2009, at 11:02 PM, steve hannah wrote: > Just man-up and take the hit. I've had 8 midairs (counting the hawk > strike with my 35% extra), 3 during contest flights. I never saw a > single one coming. Never had a caller save me either. I have the > satisfaction of knowing that at least three of my airframes died in > the line of duty. > > On Monday, July 27, 2009, Bill's Email wrote: >> I've looked over the rule book but I cannot find where this topic >> is mentioned. >> >> Is it the case that if a pilot who maneuvers to avoid a collision >> is downgraded for doing so? >> >> We can displace a figure to avoid the sun without penalty but you >> cannot avoid a mid-air without penalty? >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 29 06:05:07 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 14:05:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question In-Reply-To: <000001ca1000$97a29720$c6e7c560$@rr.com> References: <0539F80F54584580872809F0A24ACE7D@jaysdesktop> <80851.93169.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000001ca1000$97a29720$c6e7c560$@rr.com> Message-ID: <393414.59047.qm@web82102.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Verne, that is tremendously helpful! I have started tightening down that drive washer and the back of the split bushing (that goes into the drive washer) is solidly against the snap ring, however there is about a 1/8 inch gap between the snap ring and the back of the drive washer (but no gap between the split bushing that fits in the drive washer and the snap ring), is that correct? It would seem like the bushing in the drive washer can not go any further back without pushing through and protruding out the front of the drive washer. But that would also mean that all the force of having everthing tightened down on the prop shaft is only pressed against the bushing and the?snap ring via the drive washer. I would think?that the drive washer would fit flush against the snap wring witht he split bushing flush against the back and not sticking out the front. Is that bushing too long? will it fit flush front and back? How much more force will it take to get it all to press together properly? I have already been very persuasive in how much I have torqued it down, I hope I never have to take it off of that shaft! ________________________________ From: Verne Koester To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:56:43 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question Anthony, First, the easy answer. The drive washer goes up against the snap ring. The ring is in a groove ground into the shaft that prevents it from being pushed back into the bearing. ? I use the rear former provided with the Integral which fits perfect if you line the hole with a piece of split fuel tubing. It?s tight so you?ll have to put some spit or a drop of oil to get the motor to slide through. Tight is what you want so don?t make the hole any bigger (ahem). ? I have no idea how they expect you to use the front pieces. If you mount them to the ply nose ring, the front of the motor will stick out too far. OTOH, they?re WAY too flimsy to use as is. I made a firewall out of 1/8? carbon/end grain balsa that gets mounted about 5/16? behind the ply ring. The motor itself is mounted to .089? carbon plate. The plate is screwed with 3 or 4 4-40?s to the firewall thru aluminum bushed rubber grommets (similar to servo mounting, only bigger) which greatly reduces the sound level. I basically copied Tony Frackowiak?s setup he detailed in the Electric Partner build he wrote up in RC Universe about 5 years ago. Here?s the link: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1425422/mpage_1/key_partner/tm.htm? Tony?s write-up and photos explain the method far better than I could explain here. ? Good Luck! ? Verne ? ? ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Abdullah Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:47 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question ? I am trying to install a Hacker C50 14XL Comp in an Integral and have a couple of quick questions. ? 1. The Integral kit comes with a number of carbon fiber type mounts designed to be used with the Hacker or similar motor setups. The design is for the front and the rear of the motor to be supported by these formers. The rear one is shaped like a half circle and goes around the back of the Hacker for rear support. There are a couple different ones that could potentially be used up front, one is a circle like a nose ring that could be used and the other is shaped like a diamond and also fits the front of the gearbox and would mount to the hardwood ring on the front of the fuse. ? The question: Is either of those a "better" option for mounting the front of the motor? It is one or the other correct? Are they made to be doubled up and work together? I only ask because they are extremely light and I want to make sure I have the strength up front that I need. ? 2. There is a C clip on the front of the gear box just in front of the front bearing, Does the press fit drive washer torque down directly on that C clip or is there something that is supposed to go between that clip and the drive washer? I want to make sure before I get to cranking on the drive washer and little split bushing thing and forever press it onto that clip and bind the bearing up so it doesn't spin. ? ? TIA for any help you can give me concerning installing the Hacker in the Integral. Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Wed Jul 29 08:03:37 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (verne at twmi.rr.com) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 16:03:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question Message-ID: <20090729160335.VZQXI.239980.root@hrndva-web23-z01> The answer to most of your questions (I stopped counting) is yes. What you're describing is how it's supposed to be. Bad news is you WILL have to pull the drive hub off the shaft, pretty much any time you need to pull the motor out of the plane to grease the gearbox. For me, that's about every 30 flights or so (I'm ultra cautious). I definitely wouldn't go more than 50 flights. If you lock up the gearbox in flight, you'll destroy it and the speed controller in one fell swoop. You can do the math. Anyway, the puller you have for your YS will work just fine. Just make sure that whatever you have will work Verne ---- Anthony Abdullah wrote: > Thanks Verne, that is tremendously helpful! I have started tightening down that drive washer and the back of the split bushing (that goes into the drive washer) is solidly against the snap ring, however there is about a 1/8 inch gap between the snap ring and the back of the drive washer (but no gap between the split bushing that fits in the drive washer and the snap ring), is that correct? It would seem like the bushing in the drive washer can not go any further back without pushing through and protruding out the front of the drive washer. But that would also mean that all the force of having everthing tightened down on the prop shaft is only pressed against the bushing and the?snap ring via the drive washer. I would think?that the drive washer would fit flush against the snap wring witht he split bushing flush against the back and not sticking out the front. Is that bushing too long? will it fit flush front and back? How much more force will it take to get it all to press together properly? I have already been very persuasive in how much I have torqued it down, I hope I never have to take it off of that shaft! ________________________________ From: Verne Koester To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 11:56:43 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question Anthony, First, the easy answer. The drive washer goes up against the snap ring. The ring is in a groove ground into the shaft that prevents it from being pushed back into the bearing. ? I use the rear former provided with the Integral which fits perfect if you line the hole with a piece of split fuel tubing. It?s tight so you?ll have to put some spit or a drop of oil to get the motor to slide through. Tight is what you want so don?t make the hole any bigger (ahem). ? I have no idea how they expect you to use the front pieces. If you mount them to the ply nose ring, the front of the motor will stick out too far. OTOH, they?re WAY too flimsy to use as is. I made a firewall out of 1/8? carbon/end grain balsa that gets mounted about 5/16? behind the ply ring. The motor itself is mounted to .089? carbon plate. The plate is screwed with 3 or 4 4-40?s to the firewall thru aluminum bushed rubber grommets (similar to servo mounting, only bigger) which greatly reduces the sound level. I basically copied Tony Frackowiak?s setup he detailed in the Electric Partner build he wrote up in RC Universe about 5 years ago. Here?s the link: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1425422/mpage_1/key_partner/tm.htm? Tony?s write-up and photos explain the method far better than I could explain here. ? Good Luck! ? Verne ? ? ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Abdullah Sent: Tuesday, July 28, 2009 9:47 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Quick Integral Hacker install question ? I am trying to install a Hacker C50 14XL Comp in an Integral and have a couple of quick questions. ? 1. The Integral kit comes with a number of carbon fiber type mounts designed to be used with the Hacker or similar motor setups. The design is for the front and the rear of the motor to be supported by these formers. The rear one is shaped like a half circle and goes around the back of the Hacker for rear support. There are a couple different ones that could potentially be used up front, one is a circle like a nose ring that could be used and the other is shaped like a diamond and also fits the front of the gearbox and would mount to the hardwood ring on the front of the fuse. ? The question: Is either of those a "better" option for mounting the front of the motor? It is one or the other correct? Are they made to be doubled up and work together? I only ask because they are extremely light and I want to make sure I have the strength up front that I need. ? 2. There is a C clip on the front of the gear box just in front of the front bearing, Does the press fit drive washer torque down directly on that C clip or is there something that is supposed to go between that clip and the drive washer? I want to make sure before I get to cranking on the drive washer and little split bushing thing and forever press it onto that clip and bind the bearing up so it doesn't spin. ? ? TIA for any help you can give me concerning installing the Hacker in the Integral. Anthony From precisionaero at hotmail.com Wed Jul 29 13:58:13 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:58:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues In-Reply-To: <20090729160335.VZQXI.239980.root@hrndva-web23-z01> References: <20090729160335.VZQXI.239980.root@hrndva-web23-z01> Message-ID: Besides Gorilla Glue, what other polyurethane glues are people using to joint wood parts to fiberglass fuselages? Mike Cohen _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From js.smith at verizon.net Wed Jul 29 14:02:48 2009 From: js.smith at verizon.net (Scott Smith) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:02:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues In-Reply-To: References: <20090729160335.VZQXI.239980.root@hrndva-web23-z01> Message-ID: <002701ca1098$36a13b50$a3e3b1f0$@smith@verizon.net> Elmer's ProBond From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:58 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues Besides Gorilla Glue, what other polyurethane glues are people using to joint wood parts to fiberglass fuselages? Mike Cohen _____ Windows LiveT SkyDriveT: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Wed Jul 29 14:03:33 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:03:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues In-Reply-To: References: <20090729160335.VZQXI.239980.root@hrndva-web23-z01> Message-ID: I've had great luck with Elmers Ultimate glue.... It'll stick to most anything. Rex From: precisionaero at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:58:10 -0600 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues Besides Gorilla Glue, what other polyurethane glues are people using to joint wood parts to fiberglass fuselages? Mike Cohen Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgalligan at att.net Wed Jul 29 16:16:13 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:16:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues In-Reply-To: References: <20090729160335.VZQXI.239980.root@hrndva-web23-z01> Message-ID: <86D60344EA014A048024B3C80FF3FD47@WaynePC> Pro-Bond... Ultimate... same thing. Ultimate is just the older packaging. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Rex To: NSRCA-discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues I've had great luck with Elmers Ultimate glue.... It'll stick to most anything. Rex ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: precisionaero at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:58:10 -0600 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues Besides Gorilla Glue, what other polyurethane glues are people using to joint wood parts to fiberglass fuselages? Mike Cohen ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgghome at comcast.net Wed Jul 29 16:58:14 2009 From: jgghome at comcast.net (John Gayer) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:58:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A380 hard landing at Oshkosh Message-ID: <4A70F00C.9090401@comcast.net> We are not the only ones to make a less than perfect landing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iIG1ZOPLJA From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Wed Jul 29 19:21:07 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:21:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues In-Reply-To: References: <20090729160335.VZQXI.239980.root@hrndva-web23-z01> Message-ID: <560955.40023.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Having used both, for wing sheeting, the Elmer's product is IMO far superior.? It sets off a little slower, and it is thinner and spreads?much easier.? The gorilla really begins to gum up as you're working it on the skins, making it hard to spread. The white, 5 minute gorilla glue is really good for sticking things together quickly. Regular gorilla is great for sticking things together, but not for sheeting.? I've sometimes mixed cabosil?with PU glues to make paste that stays where you put it. Richard ________________________________ From: Michael Cohen To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 4:58:10 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues Besides Gorilla Glue, what other polyurethane glues are people using to joint wood parts to fiberglass fuselages? ? Mike Cohen ________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Jul 30 03:55:35 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 11:55:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues In-Reply-To: <86D60344EA014A048024B3C80FF3FD47@WaynePC> Message-ID: Ultimate. Nano . same Elmers. All excellent. See latest Model Aviation for glue comparisons. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:16 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues Pro-Bond... Ultimate... same thing. Ultimate is just the older packaging. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Rex To: NSRCA-discussion Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues I've had great luck with Elmers Ultimate glue.... It'll stick to most anything. Rex _____ From: precisionaero at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 15:58:10 -0600 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Polyurethane glues Besides Gorilla Glue, what other polyurethane glues are people using to joint wood parts to fiberglass fuselages? Mike Cohen _____ Windows LiveT SkyDriveT: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 30 04:29:43 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:29:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Message-ID: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 04:45:05 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:45:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday...I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone's success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we've spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it's getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes...it's your last chance to make the finals. It's a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 30 04:52:57 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:52:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <000f01ca1114$a63db340$f2b919c0$@net> Man! That was a fast reply!!! From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:39 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday.I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone's success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we've spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it's getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes.it's your last chance to make the finals. It's a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 04:55:36 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:55:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals added for those two classes... a lot! I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I?ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I?d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you?ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I?d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday?I?d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone?s success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We?re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we?ve spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it?s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes?it?s your last chance to make the finals. It?s a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Thu Jul 30 05:02:36 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:02:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <2039787127-1248958952-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1978880372-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> As far as the recommended changes to FAI....if the main goal is to have 10 finalists (thus adding two from the current system), time does not seem to be a real issue based upon what I observed this year. Consider cutting down or out the lunch break and/or using one demo flight as opposed to two and you would have plenty of time to leave the rest of the format as is. I want to give Dave Guerin a big thank you for all the hard work he and his team put into running the Nats so that we can compete at what we love. Mike Klein Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Atwood, Mark" Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ejhaury at comcast.net Thu Jul 30 05:08:23 2009 From: ejhaury at comcast.net (Earl Haury) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:08:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <9BA31D83F23C4E93BFC41AFE3CDDD592@EarlPC> I support Mike's proposal! While a good deal of this has been discussed from time to time, Mike's taken the time to think it through and present a concise format. Good job! I suppose the support for a finals for Intermediate will vary - the folks taking on the Nats the first time or two are exhausted after the current Intermediate format. Probably the "pro" Intermediate folks favor a finals. Maybe an incentive to move to Advanced? The banquet item is difficult, it's interferes with practice during the event and no one would stay after the finals if the menu was prime rib. As the whole Nats is also a big social event, maybe it isn't necessary? Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: michael s harrison To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:29 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 05:32:53 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:32:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> Mike, Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will also be made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). -Derek From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 05:35:13 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:35:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> There in lies the rub. I think MANY would stay if there was a reason to stay. I'd love to see the Nat's start on a Wed, and finish on Saturday (I know...the AMA dictates the schedule), but that would take some of the job/vacation pressure off trying to get home right away. If day 3 scores were NOT posted ('cept to announce the finalists...and that would just be names, not scores), and there was a serious "event" following Finals day, I think MANY would stay as that would end the Nationals for everyone. The Final evening would be a party. Dinner, awards, raffle, etc. No one needs to practice, everyone leaves town in the morning. As it stands now, we all depart over a period of 3 days. FAI starts to depart on day 2 if we miss the semi-finals. Int/Adv all leave on day 3 along with FAI and Masters that miss the cut, the finalists depart either on Day 4, or many stay the night and leave on day 5. In addition to not having any real celebration (especially for the winners) we also lose all of our help. Both formal and informal. Yes, we're low on judges, but pilots lose their callers and helpers. If a LOT of people needed to stay (those involved in the finals, flying, judging, scoring, helping with the banquet, whatever) even more people would stay to participate. And you would simply plan for it. The Nats would be thought of as a 4 day event and people would schedule that. As it stands now, it varies based on how well you fly. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals added for those two classes... a lot! I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK ________________________________ From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday...I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone's success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we've spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it's getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes...it's your last chance to make the finals. It's a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Jul 30 05:41:46 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:41:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <6DD36F526D204B0C80D7AF1BA7988F25@Tony> I also like Mike's proposal. One option on the banquet is to have it on Opening day. This could serve as the Pilots meeting as well. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:30 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format There in lies the rub. I think MANY would stay if there was a reason to stay. I'd love to see the Nat's start on a Wed, and finish on Saturday (I know.the AMA dictates the schedule), but that would take some of the job/vacation pressure off trying to get home right away. If day 3 scores were NOT posted ('cept to announce the finalists.and that would just be names, not scores), and there was a serious "event" following Finals day, I think MANY would stay as that would end the Nationals for everyone. The Final evening would be a party. Dinner, awards, raffle, etc. No one needs to practice, everyone leaves town in the morning. As it stands now, we all depart over a period of 3 days. FAI starts to depart on day 2 if we miss the semi-finals. Int/Adv all leave on day 3 along with FAI and Masters that miss the cut, the finalists depart either on Day 4, or many stay the night and leave on day 5. In addition to not having any real celebration (especially for the winners) we also lose all of our help. Both formal and informal. Yes, we're low on judges, but pilots lose their callers and helpers. If a LOT of people needed to stay (those involved in the finals, flying, judging, scoring, helping with the banquet, whatever) even more people would stay to participate. And you would simply plan for it. The Nats would be thought of as a 4 day event and people would schedule that. As it stands now, it varies based on how well you fly. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals added for those two classes... a lot! I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK _____ From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday.I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone's success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we've spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it's getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes.it's your last chance to make the finals. It's a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 30 05:58:22 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:58:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <003801ca111d$c9952900$5cbf7b00$@net> I was going to put off the discussion of the banquet to a later time, but I would recommend the banquet be as follows: 1. Do the night before the finals 2. Do on site under a big tent-AMA has those 3. Cater from someone like Outback 4. Keep the sites open for flying This would allow competitors to fly and enjoy the company. There can be and meeting and presentations. It can be a gala affair. Probably be best to do that on site 1. The banquet has pretty much become a bust and I sacrificed my practice time to go and regretted it. Won't do that again. Too many people leave after the finals because of the long drive or other commitments so I would recommend the night before the finals. Mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals added for those two classes... a lot! I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK _____ From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday.I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone's success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we've spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it's getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes.it's your last chance to make the finals. It's a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Thu Jul 30 05:59:58 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:59:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <8CBDF351CCA8BDA-BD8-2584@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> Mark, I tend to agree with you, except on the posting of scores. The AMA General Competition regulations require the following: "8. Review of Scores: It is mandatory that all contestants of Class AA, AAA, and AAAA meets who desire to do so be permitted to review their detailed score sheet (e.g., in CL Aerobatics, the score for each maneuver; in Scale, the score for each characteristic judged, whether of a static or in-flight nature; in Navy Carrier, the scores for high speed, low speed, landing, and bonus) for each flight prior to attempting any subsequent flight(s) and in all instances prior to announcement of winners and awarding of prizes. It is recommended that the contestant be provided with a carbon copy of the actual score sheet for the purpose of complying with this regulation. Neither the contestant nor anyone representing him shall talk to an Event Judge regarding any contestant?s score during the contest, unless Judge and Event or Contest Director is the same person. All questions regarding the score sheet are to be asked of the Director. Violations of this rule are sufficient cause for flight or entry disqualification. While errors in score computation shall be corrected, at no time shall the number of points awarded for an individual maneuver or characteristic be altered." Since individual score sheets MUST be available to pilots (to INCLUDE the last round), there is little point in not pos ting the scores since pilots compare notes anyway. I've had to "remind" a few CDs of this rule. Many people just read the RC aerobatics rules and forget about the Generals. I've never understood the "suspense" of not posting the last round results anyway. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 8:29 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format There in lies the rub. ? I think MANY would stay if there was a reason to stay.?? I?d love to see the Nat?s start on a Wed, and finish on Saturday (I know?the AMA dictates the schedule), but that would take some of the job/vacation pressure off trying to get home right away. ? If day 3 scores were NOT posted (?cept to announce the finalists?and that would just be names, not scores), and there was a serious ?event? following Finals day, I think MANY would stay as that would end the Nationals for everyone. ? The Final evening would be a party.? Dinner, awards, raffle, etc.? No one needs to practice, everyone leaves town in the morning.? ? As it st ands now, we all depart over a period of 3 days.? FAI starts to depart on day 2 if we miss the semi-finals.? Int/Adv all leave on day 3 along with FAI and Masters that miss the cut, the finalists depart either on Day 4, or many stay the night and leave on day 5. ? In addition to not having any real celebration (especially for the winners) we also lose all of our help.? Both formal and informal.? Yes, we?re low on judges, but pilots lose their callers and helpers.? ? If a LOT of people needed to stay (those involved in the finals, flying, judging, scoring, helping with the banquet, whatever) even more people would stay to participate.? And you would simply plan for it.? The Nats would be thought of as a 4 day event and people would schedule that.?? As it stands now, it varies based on how well you fly. ? ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals?added for those two=2 0classes... a lot! I also?like the idea of?having the banquet at the end of the Nats.? It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK ? ------------------------------------------------------------ From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I?ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I?d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals.? Reduce the finalists to 8, and you?ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day.??? All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day.? ? I?d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day.?? IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday?I?d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. ? I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone?s success.C2 ? As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice.? We?re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we?ve spent all year prepping for.? For FAI, it?s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern.? In the other classes?it?s your last chance to make the finals. ? It?s a little messed up. ? Thoughts?? ? -Mark ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? ? ? From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format ? After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes fl own.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. ? They are: 1.?????? Have a finals for advanced a.?????? 8 finalists b.????? 3 rounds c.?????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f.??????? Do on 4th day g.?????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2.?????? Modify masters accordingly a.?????? 3 round finals b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score =0 D c.?????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d.????? 10 finalists e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3.?????? Fai a.?????? 3 rounds final b.????? F-11 flown 1 time c.?????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f.??????? 10 finalists g.?????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours ? Rationale behind changes: ? Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? ? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? ? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? ? To conclude: ? I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. ? Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 06:06:39 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:06:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB7FE@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Doesn't that all but guarantee that none of the finalist will attent? For FAI they can't ... Unknown selection and prep prevents it. For the rest, practice would win out for sure. I think the first night (pilots meeting as Tony suggested) or last is the only viable choice. Last is my preference and I think many would save the trip home for the next day if it was worth staying for. Or leave a few hours later. I COMPLETELY agree with having it on site. The freestyle would likely be an added bonus. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thu Jul 30 09:58:16 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I was going to put off the discussion of the banquet to a later time, but I would recommend the banquet be as follows: 1. Do the night before the finals 2. Do on site under a big tent-AMA has those 3. Cater from someone like Outback 4. Keep the sites open for flying This would allow competitors to fly and enjoy the company. There can be and meeting and presentations. It can be a gala affair. Probably be best to do that on site 1. The banquet has pretty much become a bust and I sacrificed my practice time to go and regretted it. Won?t do that again. Too many people leave after the finals because of the long drive or other commitments so I would recommend the night before the finals. Mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals added for those two classes... a lot! I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK _____ From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I?ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I?d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you?ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I?d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday?I?d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone?s success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We?re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we?ve spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it?s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes?it?s your last chance to make the finals. It?s a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 30 06:09:23 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:09:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Thu Jul 30 06:09:28 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:09:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <6DD36F526D204B0C80D7AF1BA7988F25@Tony> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <6DD36F526D204B0C80D7AF1BA7988F25@Tony> Message-ID: <594950.92879.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am also in support of Mike's proposal.? I would also support the addition of a top 8 Intermediate finals as well.??A site?4 Finals would be cool, and it would likely run itself just as the prelims do now.? Keeping 8 Intermediates for finals will add to a judges pool for advanced finals as well.??I think 24 flights of Int. and Adv. could finish before 3-4pm.??Having the banquet on the last day and announcing the winners only then?would be special.? Attendance at the banquet may be lower, but we could likely account for a more accurate number of attendees.? Guessing how many plates is what has cost the NSRCA in the past.? Having?a few more pilots (collectively) in the finals would entice more folks to stay. If we were to have the banquet on Practice day (night), it could serve as the Pilots meeting, but that would make it mandatory, correct?.? We would then have to add a cost to the entry fee...if it was modest, I wouldn't oppose it ($25?). For me, having the Nats end on a Friday is best since it allows the drive home to be more bearable,?and leaves Sunday for recovery before work...:) -mark ________________________________ From: Tony To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:41:41 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I also like Mike?s proposal.? One option on the banquet is to have it on Opening day.? This could serve as the Pilots meeting as well.? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:30 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? There in lies the rub. ? I think MANY would stay if there was a reason to stay.?? I?d love to see the Nat?s start on a Wed, and finish on Saturday (I know?the AMA dictates the schedule), but that would take some of the job/vacation pressure off trying to get home right away. ? If day 3 scores were NOT posted (?cept to announce the finalists?and that would just be names, not scores), and there was a serious ?event? following Finals day, I think MANY would stay as that would end the Nationals for everyone. ? The Final evening would be a party.? Dinner, awards, raffle, etc.? No one needs to practice, everyone leaves town in the morning.? ? As it stands now, we all depart over a period of 3 days.? FAI starts to depart on day 2 if we miss the semi-finals.? Int/Adv all leave on day 3 along with FAI and Masters that miss the cut, the finalists depart either on Day 4, or many stay the night and leave on day 5. ? In addition to not having any real celebration (especially for the winners) we also lose all of our help.? Both formal and informal.? Yes, we?re low on judges, but pilots lose their callers and helpers.? ? If a LOT of people needed to stay (those involved in the finals, flying, judging, scoring, helping with the banquet, whatever) even more people would stay to participate.? And you would simply plan for it.? The Nats would be thought of as a 4 day event and people would schedule that.?? As it stands now, it varies based on how well you fly. ? ? ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals?added for those two classes... a lot! I also?like the idea of?having the banquet at the end of the Nats.? It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK ? ________________________________ From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I?ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I?d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals.? Reduce the finalists to 8, and you?ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day.??? All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day.? ? I?d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day.?? IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday?I?d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. ? I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone?s success.? ? As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice.? We?re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we?ve spent all year prepping for.? For FAI, it?s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern.? In the other classes?it?s your last chance to make the finals. ? It?s a little messed up. ? Thoughts?? ? -Mark ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: ' General pattern discussion ' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? ? ? From:michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format ? After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. ? They are: 1.?????? Have a finals for advanced a.?????? 8 finalists b.????? 3 rounds c.?????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f.??????? Do on 4th day g.?????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2.?????? Modify masters accordingly a.?????? 3 round finals b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c.?????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d.????? 10 finalists e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3.?????? Fai a.?????? 3 rounds final b.????? F-11 flown 1 time c.?????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f.??????? 10 finalists g.?????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours ? Rationale behind changes: ? Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? ? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? ? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? ? To conclude: ? I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. ? Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Thu Jul 30 06:09:39 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:09:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Message-ID: <270168.29678.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I?can't believe it: ? "We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that compete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check-in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) before they?ll be allowed to fly.? Random weight checks will also be made throughout the event (random process to be determined later)." ? I've been trying to pitch this for a while now. You guys actually listened (finally). Thank you!!! ? John Pavlick --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: From: Derek Koopowitz Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 9:32 AM Mike, ? Thanks for responding.? The board discussed a lot of these ideas the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year.? Pretty much what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. ? We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that compete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check-in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) before they?ll be allowed to fly.? Random weight checks will also be made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). ? -Derek ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? ? ? From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format ? After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. ? They are: 1.?????? Have a finals for advanced a.?????? 8 finalists b.????? 3 rounds c.?????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f.??????? Do on 4th day g.?????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2.?????? Modify masters accordingly a.?????? 3 round finals b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c.?????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d.????? 10 finalists e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3.?????? Fai a.?????? 3 rounds final b.????? F-11 flown 1 time c.?????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f.??????? 10 finalists g.?????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours ? Rationale behind changes: ? Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? ? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? ? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? ? To conclude: ? I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. ? Respectfully Mike Harrison -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 06:18:10 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:18:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> Message-ID: Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 06:30:45 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:30:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Excellent idea. Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they're overwhelmed. There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters. They're not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots. They're finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI. We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally. We all know the top dogs are the FAI finalists... but that shouldn't diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK ________________________________ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Jul 30 06:39:32 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:39:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <1520433449.6956461248964771585.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Very good ideas Mike.? I agree 100%.? Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael s harrison" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:29:38 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. ????? Have a finals for advanced a. ????? 8 finalists b. ????? 3 rounds c. ????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. ????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e. ????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. ?????? Do on 4 th day g. ????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. ????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. ????? Modify masters accordingly a. ????? 3 round finals b. ????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. ????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. ????? 10 finalists e. ????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. ????? Fai a. ????? 3 rounds final b. ????? F-11 flown 1 time c. ????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. ????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. ????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. ?????? 10 finalists g. ????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4 th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 06:41:46 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:41:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <745125.84562.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If it was wed -sat then a long drive home on Sunday (and Monday for us left coasters) then I would need a day or two to relax. I would return to work Wed. May work for some, not me. I like the tues-frid personally. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 6:29 AM There in lies the rub. ? I think MANY would stay if there was a reason to stay.?? I?d love to see the Nat?s start on a Wed, and finish on Saturday (I know?the AMA dictates the schedule), but that would take some of the job/vacation pressure off trying to get home right away. ? If day 3 scores were NOT posted (?cept to announce the finalists?and that would just be names, not scores), and there was a serious ?event? following Finals day, I think MANY would stay as that would end the Nationals for everyone. ? The Final evening would be a party.? Dinner, awards, raffle, etc.? No one needs to practice, everyone leaves town in the morning.? ? As it stands now, we all depart over a period of 3 days.? FAI starts to depart on day 2 if we miss the semi-finals.? Int/Adv all leave on day 3 along with FAI and Masters that miss the cut, the finalists depart either on Day 4, or many stay the night and leave on day 5. ? In addition to not having any real celebration (especially for the winners) we also lose all of our help.? Both formal and informal.? Yes, we?re low on judges, but pilots lose their callers and helpers.? ? If a LOT of people needed to stay (those involved in the finals, flying, judging, scoring, helping with the banquet, whatever) even more people would stay to participate.? And you would simply plan for it.? The Nats would be thought of as a 4 day event and people would schedule that.?? As it stands now, it varies based on how well you fly. ? ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals?added for those two classes... a lot! I also?like the idea of?having the banquet at the end of the Nats.? It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK ? From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I?ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I?d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals.? Reduce the finalists to 8, and you?ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day.??? All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day.? ? I?d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day.?? IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday?I?d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. ? I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone?s success.? ? As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice.? We?re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we?ve spent all year prepping for.? For FAI, it?s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern.? In the other classes?it?s your last chance to make the finals. ? It?s a little messed up. ? Thoughts?? ? -Mark ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? ? ? From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format ? After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. ? They are: 1.?????? Have a finals for advanced a.?????? 8 finalists b.????? 3 rounds c.?????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f.??????? Do on 4th day g.?????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2.?????? Modify masters accordingly a.?????? 3 round finals b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c.?????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d.????? 10 finalists e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3.?????? Fai a.?????? 3 rounds final b.????? F-11 flown 1 time c.?????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f.??????? 10 finalists g.?????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours ? Rationale behind changes: ? Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? ? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? ? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? ? To conclude: ? I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. ? Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shinden1 at cox.net Thu Jul 30 07:25:29 2009 From: shinden1 at cox.net (shinden1 at cox.net) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:25:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003801ca111d$c9952900$5cbf7b00$@net> Message-ID: <20090730112528.YFJIW.13811.imail@eastrmwml10> I Agree Mike ,,, the banquet used to mean something when we announced "who" made the finals in each class ,,, Lets have it at the Site Wed night. I have talked with Ron About Tim Landry cooking for the event ,,,he is willing to do it so, I don`t see a problem providing quality food for everybody as he is used to cooking for very large events. Lets put the fun and Excitement back in the event for all of us. We could also showcase and tally the votes for the "BEST OF SHOW" Award ,there is a lot of work put into this and interest has declined in the last few years this would showcase these models better. venders could also set up booths like the old days. Bryan ---- michael s harrison wrote: > I was going to put off the discussion of the banquet to a later time, but I > would recommend the banquet be as follows: > > 1. Do the night before the finals > > 2. Do on site under a big tent-AMA has those > > 3. Cater from someone like Outback > > 4. Keep the sites open for flying > > This would allow competitors to fly and enjoy the company. There can be and > meeting and presentations. It can be a gala affair. Probably be best to do > that on site 1. The banquet has pretty much become a bust and I sacrificed > my practice time to go and regretted it. Won't do that again. > > > > Too many people leave after the finals because of the long drive or other > commitments so I would recommend the night before the finals. > > > > Mike > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:56 AM > To: Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > > > Good ideas! > I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of > a finals added for those two classes... > a lot! > I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It > really would be a party then! > ;-) > To play the devil's advocate... > How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that > last evening? > JLK > > > _____ > > From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add to > Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as > well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have > time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, > and it keeps more people around for the last day. > > > > I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day > can be a Friday, or a Saturday.I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event > rather than be in the middle. > > > > I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see > everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to > celebrate everyone's success. > > > > As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening > that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. > We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only > get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of > the year that we've spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it's getting a > flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes.it's your last > chance to make the finals. > > > > It's a little messed up. > > > > Thoughts?? > > > > -Mark > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s > harrison > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > > > > > > > From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > To: 'Don Ramsey' > Subject: nats format > > > > After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of > the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to > have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the > nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has > worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has > responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. > With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would > be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. > > > > They are: > > 1. Have a finals for advanced > > a. 8 finalists > > b. 3 rounds > > c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) > > d. The site is open so it is not a space issue > > e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours > > f. Do on 4th day > > g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner > > 2. Modify masters accordingly > > a. 3 round finals > > b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > d. 10 finalists > > e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > > 3. Fai > > a. 3 rounds final > > b. F-11 flown 1 time > > c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once > > d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized > score > > e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > f. 10 finalists > > g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > > > > Rationale behind changes: > > > > Advanced > > This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. > It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This > format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It > could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. > > > > Masters > > Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does > someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. > The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure > issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and > takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the > argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. > Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate > score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of > variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the > competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the > prelims score can be dropped. > > > > FAI > > The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the > semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so > large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the > semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at > the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 > normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score > carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F > pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the > F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would > love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the > world. It would be a showcase event. > > > > To conclude: > > > > I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; > both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be > showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the > finals. > > There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some > kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. > > > > Respectfully > > Mike Harrison > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 > 18:07:00 > From flyintexan at att.net Thu Jul 30 07:34:21 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:34:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <20090730112528.YFJIW.13811.imail@eastrmwml10> References: <20090730112528.YFJIW.13811.imail@eastrmwml10> Message-ID: <62309.80860.qm@web80706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This plan is sounding better and better........mmmm Tim's cookin! ________________________________ From: "shinden1 at cox.net" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25:28 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I Agree Mike ,,, the banquet used to mean something when we announced "who" made the finals in each class ,,, Lets have it at the Site Wed night. I have talked with Ron About Tim Landry cooking for the event ,,,he is willing to do it so, I don`t see a problem providing quality food for everybody as he is used to cooking for very large events. Lets put the fun and Excitement back in the event for all of us. We could also showcase and tally the votes for the "BEST OF SHOW" Award ,there is a lot of work put into this and interest has declined in the last few years this would showcase these models better. venders could also set up booths like the old days. Bryan ---- michael s harrison wrote: > I was going to put off the discussion of the banquet to a later time, but I > would recommend the banquet be as follows: > > 1.? ? ? Do the night before the finals > > 2.? ? ? Do on site under a big tent-AMA has those > > 3.? ? ? Cater from someone like Outback > > 4.? ? ? Keep the sites open for flying > > This would allow competitors to fly and enjoy the company.? There can be and > meeting and presentations.? It can be a gala affair.? Probably be best to do > that on site 1.? The banquet has pretty much become a bust and I sacrificed > my practice time to go and regretted it.? Won't do that again.? > >? > > Too many people leave after the finals because of the long drive or other > commitments so I would recommend the night before the finals. > >? > > Mike > >? > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:56 AM > To: Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > >? > > Good ideas! > I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of > a finals added for those two classes... > a lot! > I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats.? It > really would be a party then! > ;-) > To play the devil's advocate... > How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that > last evening? > JLK >? > >? _____? > > From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > I'll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I'd like to add to > Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as > well as an Intermediate Finals.? Reduce the finalists to 8, and you'll have > time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day.? ? All the same motivations, > and it keeps more people around for the last day.? > >? > > I'd really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day.? IF that day > can be a Friday, or a Saturday.I'd like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event > rather than be in the middle. > >? > > I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see > everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to > celebrate everyone's success.? > >? > > As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening > that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. > We're forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only > get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of > the year that we've spent all year prepping for.? For FAI, it's getting a > flight or two up on the F pattern.? In the other classes.it's your last > chance to make the finals. > >? > > It's a little messed up. > >? > > Thoughts?? > >? > > -Mark > >? > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s > harrison > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > >? > >? > >? > > From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > To: 'Don Ramsey' > Subject: nats format > >? > > After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of > the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to > have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the > nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has > worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has > responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. > With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would > be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. > >? > > They are: > > 1.? ? ? Have a finals for advanced > > a.? ? ? 8 finalists > > b.? ? ? 3 rounds > > c.? ? ? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) > > d.? ? ? The site is open so it is not a space issue > > e.? ? ? 24 flights would take app 3 hours > > f.? ? ? ? Do on 4th day > > g.? ? ? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > h.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner > > 2.? ? ? Modify masters accordingly > > a.? ? ? 3 round finals > > b.? ? ? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > c.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > d.? ? ? 10 finalists > > e.? ? ? 30 flights about 5.5 hours > > 3.? ? ? Fai > > a.? ? ? 3 rounds final > > b.? ? ? F-11 flown 1 time > > c.? ? ? Each unknown(1&2) flown once > > d.? ? ? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized > score > > e.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > f.? ? ? ? 10 finalists > > g.? ? ? 30 flights about 5.5 hours > >? > > Rationale behind changes: > >? > > Advanced > > This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. > It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This > format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It > could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? > >? > > Masters > > Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does > someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. > The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure > issue-which may have merit.? The system I propose addresses that issue and > takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the > argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. > Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate > score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of > variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the > competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the > prelims score can be dropped.? > >? > > FAI > > The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the > semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so > large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the > semifinals.? This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats.? The semifinals at > the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 > normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score > carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F > pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores.? I would recommend doing the > F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would > love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the > world. It would be a showcase event.? > >? > > To conclude: > >? > > I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; > both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be > showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the > finals.? > > There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some > kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. > >? > > Respectfully > > Mike Harrison > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 > 18:07:00 > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 07:40:20 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:40:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: I have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest this. But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI panned out. Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? They get equal exposure already. If there is a finals for Advanced and Intermediate, it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge Advanced this year and that is what I see from this experience. Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day 3. Also, for this to really work properly, there is a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to mention more volunteers or paid individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to weigh every plane, etc. What really messed up this years Nats was the fact that no shows did not bother to contact Dave early enough or at all for him to fix judging assignments. No shows are what really screw things up for the contest management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an imbalance in matrix seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10 or so judges from the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to make things work. This does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This all gets amplified when there is a year with lower than usual attendance which this year was. From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 30 07:55:56 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:55:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <002501ca112e$3715bde0$a54139a0$@net> The advanced, as I said in my initial proposal is self supportive. It does not require recruiting additional judges per say. It comes from the intermediate pool and those that did not make the finals. Mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:40 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest this. But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI panned out. Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? They get equal exposure already. If there is a finals for Advanced and Intermediate, it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge Advanced this year and that is what I see from this experience. Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day 3. Also, for this to really work properly, there is a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to mention more volunteers or paid individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to weigh every plane, etc. What really messed up this years Nats was the fact that no shows did not bother to contact Dave early enough or at all for him to fix judging assignments. No shows are what really screw things up for the contest management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an imbalance in matrix seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10 or so judges from the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to make things work. This does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This all gets amplified when there is a year with lower than usual attendance which this year was. _____ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison _____ Windows LiveT SkyDriveT: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Thu Jul 30 08:15:14 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:15:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E1B@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <8CBDF47F09EC411-1718-2787@webmail-da13.sysops.aol.com> Having a banquet at the end of the Nats may not work all that well. Most folks want to get on their way. It's workable but will require a cultural change in our thinking of the Nats experience. ? MattK -----Original Message----- From: Atwood, Mark <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 8:39 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I?ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I?d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals.? Reduce the finalists to 8, and you?ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day.??? All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day.? ? I?d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day.?? IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday?I?d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. ? I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone?s success.? ? As it stands now, the only consolidated social even t comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice.? We?re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we?ve spent all year prepping for.? For FAI, it?s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern.? In the other classes?it?s your last chance to make the finals. ? It?s a little messed up. ? Thoughts?? ? -Mark ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? ? ? From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format ? After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for year s at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. ? They are: 1.?????? Have a finals for advanced a.?????? 8 finalists b.????? 3 rounds c.?????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f.??????? Do on 4th day g.?????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2.?????? Modify masters accordingly a.?????? 3 round finals b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c.?????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d.????? 10 finalists e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3.?????? Fai a.?????? 3 rounds final b.????? F-11 flown 1 time c.??0??? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f.??????? 10 finalists g.?????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours ? Rationale behind changes: ? Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? ? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor20has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? ? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? ? To conclude: ? I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. ? Respectfully =0 D Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 08:17:04 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:17:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Message-ID: <3454543c0907300917p423e6e44u94d1d661b63bc57b@mail.gmail.com> *Please visit the NSRCA website to vote* - www.nsrca.us A number of years ago it was suggested that the NSRCA should look into moving the Nationals from Muncie on a "rotational" basis. What this meant was that one year it would be in Muncie and then the following year it would move elsewhere and then back to Muncie again, and then the cycle would be repeated. Ostensibly the idea was that we would rotate the Nationals around the country with each region hosting it on a given cycle so that the East/West/South, for example, would get to host the Nationals every 8 years. The rotation could look like: 1. Muncie 2. East Coast location 3. Muncie 4. Southern (Texas, Louisiana) location 5. Muncie 6. West Coast location 7. Muncie Nothing ever came of this plan, unfortunately. However, last year we mentioned that there was a group in Louisiana that had a lot of interest in hosting the Nationals at some point, but due to some concerns at their local county/parish board (new board installed) in the location that would allow them to use the airport, the guys decided to wait until they could contact the new board and then revisit the plan again. This past June, they contacted the NSRCA about the possibility of hosting the Nationals again since they now had the approval of this board to go ahead. The NSRCA board talked about this at the board meeting at the Nationals and decided to poll the membership as to their preferences. We also talked about the fact that mid-July in Louisiana was very hot and humid and perhaps moving the Nationals to later summer/early fall would be preferable. Unfortunately this may preclude a number of our younger school going competitors from competing since it would involve missing at least 4 days of school. The NSRCA board would still like to get your opinion on this... should we move the Nationals (for one year - 2010) to Louisiana and, if so, should the Nationals be held at the same time it currently is held or moved to the late summer. Another question that we are asking is to find out if in fact you want to move it to Louisiana or would you prefer to have it relocated to another part of the country (the problem with this is that we would need to find local pattern pilots interested in helping us find a location since we don't have any other places defined at this time). We realize this poll is not scientific but at least it will give us an idea of the interest level. We would also really appreciate your concerns or questions related to this potential change so please feel free to email your local district VP or any of the NSRCA officers. Thanks for voting. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Jul 30 08:20:58 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:20:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <3454543c0907300917p423e6e44u94d1d661b63bc57b@mail.gmail.com> References: <3454543c0907300917p423e6e44u94d1d661b63bc57b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <176D364E9D9C422B9BA0A77790B92D91@Tony> It is important to note that AMA would like to do this as well. It would free up time in the summer and reduce the number of weeks required to have the NATS. AMA is even considering moving the ENTIRE NATS every so often! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:17 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Please visit the NSRCA website to vote - www.nsrca.us A number of years ago it was suggested that the NSRCA should look into moving the Nationals from Muncie on a "rotational" basis. What this meant was that one year it would be in Muncie and then the following year it would move elsewhere and then back to Muncie again, and then the cycle would be repeated. Ostensibly the idea was that we would rotate the Nationals around the country with each region hosting it on a given cycle so that the East/West/South, for example, would get to host the Nationals every 8 years. The rotation could look like: 1. Muncie 2. East Coast location 3. Muncie 4. Southern (Texas, Louisiana) location 5. Muncie 6. West Coast location 7. Muncie Nothing ever came of this plan, unfortunately. However, last year we mentioned that there was a group in Louisiana that had a lot of interest in hosting the Nationals at some point, but due to some concerns at their local county/parish board (new board installed) in the location that would allow them to use the airport, the guys decided to wait until they could contact the new board and then revisit the plan again. This past June, they contacted the NSRCA about the possibility of hosting the Nationals again since they now had the approval of this board to go ahead. The NSRCA board talked about this at the board meeting at the Nationals and decided to poll the membership as to their preferences. We also talked about the fact that mid-July in Louisiana was very hot and humid and perhaps moving the Nationals to later summer/early fall would be preferable. Unfortunately this may preclude a number of our younger school going competitors from competing since it would involve missing at least 4 days of school. The NSRCA board would still like to get your opinion on this... should we move the Nationals (for one year - 2010) to Louisiana and, if so, should the Nationals be held at the same time it currently is held or moved to the late summer. Another question that we are asking is to find out if in fact you want to move it to Louisiana or would you prefer to have it relocated to another part of the country (the problem with this is that we would need to find local pattern pilots interested in helping us find a location since we don't have any other places defined at this time). We realize this poll is not scientific but at least it will give us an idea of the interest level. We would also really appreciate your concerns or questions related to this potential change so please feel free to email your local district VP or any of the NSRCA officers. Thanks for voting. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 08:25:08 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:25:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <567101.87672.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Some more volunteers will be needed to make this all work . . . . . Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25:07 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Excellent idea. Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they?re overwhelmed. There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters. They?re not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots. They?re finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI. We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally. We all know the top dogs are the FAI finalists? but that shouldn?t diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK ________________________________ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From:michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Thu Jul 30 08:28:46 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:28:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <176D364E9D9C422B9BA0A77790B92D91@Tony> References: <176D364E9D9C422B9BA0A77790B92D91@Tony> Message-ID: <8CBDF49E1A85187-1718-2852@webmail-da13.sysops.aol.com> Tony ? Is?the AMA considering the old traveling show style of Nats where all events were happening within the same two week time frame? That was possibly tougher to do than the current format. ? However, from a model enthusiast point of view, I loved spending time at events I never got to see otherwise.I found that about as intersting as anything I did in Pattern ? MattK -----Original Message----- From: Tony <tony at radiosouthrc.com> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:20 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It is important to note that AMA would like to do this as well.? It would free up time in the summer and reduce the number of weeks required to have the NATS.? AMA is even considering moving the ENTIRE NATS every so often!? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:17 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? Please visit the NSRCA website to vote - www.nsrca.us ? A number of years ago it was suggested that the NSRCA should look into moving the Nationals from Muncie on a "rotational" basis.? What this meant was that one year it would be in Muncie and then the?following year it would move elsewhere and then back to Muncie again, and then the cycle would be repeated.? Ostensibly the idea was that we would rotate the Nationals around the country with each region hosting it on a given cycle so that the East/West/South, for example,?would get to host the Nationals every 8 years.? The rotation could look like: ? Muncie East Coast location Muncie Southern (Texas, Louisiana) location Muncie West Coast location Muncie Nothing ever came of this plan, unfortunately.? However, last year we mentioned that there was a group in Louisiana that had a lot of interest in hosting the Nationals at some point, but due to some concerns at their local county/parish?board (new board installed)?in the location that would allow them to use the airport, the guys decided to wait until they could contact the new board and then revisit the plan again.? This past June, they contacted the NSRCA about the possibility of hosting the Nationals again since they now had the approval of this board to go ahead.? The NSRCA board talked about this at the board meeting at the Nationals and decided to poll the membership as to their preferences.? We also talked about the fact that mid-July in Louisiana was very hot and humid and perhaps moving the Nationals to later summer/early fall would be preferable.? Unfortunately this may preclude a number of our younger school going competitors from competing since it would involve m issing at least 4 days of school. ? The NSRCA board would still like to get your opinion on this... should we move the Nationals (for one year - 2010) to Louisiana and, if so, should the Nationals be held at the same time it currently is held or moved to the late summer.? Another question that we are asking is to find out if in fact you want to move it to Louisiana or would you prefer to have it relocated to another part of the country (the problem with this is that we would need to find local pattern pilots interested in helping us find a location since we don't have any other places defined at this time). ? We realize this poll is not scientific but at least it will give us an idea of the interest level.? We would also really appreciate your concerns or questions related to this potential change so please feel free to email your local district VP or any of the NSRCA officers. ? Thanks for voting. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 30 08:57:14 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:57:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> Message-ID: <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup airplanes) when they could be out practicing. Ron VP . On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > Mike, > > > > Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas > the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff > that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much > what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. > > > > We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that > compete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check- > in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if anyone > fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole day on > check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighed and > measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) before > they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will also be made > throughout the event (random process to be determined later). > > > > -Derek > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > > > > > > > From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > To: 'Don Ramsey' > Subject: nats format > > > > After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my > views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been > very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work > and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the > event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and > unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to > our desires to make this the best national event possible. With > that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that > would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. > > > > They are: > > 1. Have a finals for advanced > > a. 8 finalists > > b. 3 rounds > > c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified > volunteers) > > d. The site is open so it is not a space issue > > e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours > > f. Do on 4th day > > g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner > > 2. Modify masters accordingly > > a. 3 round finals > > b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > d. 10 finalists > > e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > > 3. Fai > > a. 3 rounds final > > b. F-11 flown 1 time > > c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once > > d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 > normalized score > > e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > f. 10 finalists > > g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > > > > Rationale behind changes: > > > > Advanced > > This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced > class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for > them. This format is totally self contained with no additional > personnel required. It could be started and finished before the > masters and fai is done. > > > > Masters > > Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times > does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best > in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument > is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I > propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the > number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is > cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the > prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score > to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number > of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, > etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 > flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. > > > > FAI > > The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event > in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and > the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over > the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply > at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 > pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. > Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried > over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F > pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend > doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the > other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of > the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. > > > > To conclude: > > > > I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to > advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the > best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; > fewer personnel to do the finals. > > There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of > some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be > implemented. > > > > Respectfully > > Mike Harrison > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From astafford at swtexas.net Thu Jul 30 09:01:32 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:01:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> Message-ID: <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of > checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. > Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day > weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup > airplanes) when they could be out practicing. > > Ron VP > . > On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> >> >> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >> the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff >> that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >> what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. >> >> >> >> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that c >> ompete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check >> -in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if >> anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole da >> y on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighe >> d and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) be >> fore they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will also be >> made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). >> >> >> >> -Derek >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: 'Don Ramsey' >> Subject: nats format >> >> >> >> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my >> views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been >> very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work >> and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the >> event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >> >> >> >> They are: >> >> 1. Have a finals for advanced >> >> a. 8 finalists >> >> b. 3 rounds >> >> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >> volunteers) >> >> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >> >> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >> >> f. Do on 4th day >> >> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >> >> 2. Modify masters accordingly >> >> a. 3 round finals >> >> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> d. 10 finalists >> >> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> 3. Fai >> >> a. 3 rounds final >> >> b. F-11 flown 1 time >> >> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >> >> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >> normalized score >> >> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> f. 10 finalists >> >> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> >> >> Rationale behind changes: >> >> >> >> Advanced >> >> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced >> class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for >> them. This format is totally self contained with no additional >> personnel required. It could be started and finished before the >> masters and fai is done. >> >> >> >> Masters >> >> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best >> in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument >> is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I >> propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the >> number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is >> cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the >> prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score >> to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number >> of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, >> etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 >> flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. >> >> >> >> FAI >> >> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event >> in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and >> the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over >> the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply >> at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 2 >> 0 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Ther >> efore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over >> into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F patter >> n and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing >> the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the othe >> r pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the >> best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. >> >> >> >> To conclude: >> >> >> >> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; >> fewer personnel to do the finals. >> >> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of >> some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be >> implemented. >> >> >> >> Respectfully >> >> Mike Harrison >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 30 09:17:15 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:17:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <745125.84562.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E20@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <745125.84562.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003c01ca1139$926a5290$b73ef7b0$@net> I agree, and I would not stay Friday night for a meal. Too long a drive and have to recuperate and go back to my real life. Mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:42 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format If it was wed -sat then a long drive home on Sunday (and Monday for us left coasters) then I would need a day or two to relax. I would return to work Wed. May work for some, not me. I like the tues-frid personally. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 6:29 AM There in lies the rub. I think MANY would stay if there was a reason to stay. I?d love to see the Nat?s start on a Wed, and finish on Saturday (I know?the AMA dictates the schedule), but that would take some of the job/vacation pressure off trying to get home right away. If day 3 scores were NOT posted (?cept to announce the finalists?and that would just be names, not scores), and there was a serious ?event? following Finals day, I think MANY would stay as that would end the Nationals for everyone. The Final evening would be a party. Dinner, awards, raffle, etc. No one needs to practice, everyone leaves town in the morning. As it stands now, we all depart over a period of 3 days. FAI starts to depart on day 2 if we miss the semi-finals. Int/Adv all leave on day 3 along with FAI and Masters that miss the cut, the finalists depart either on Day 4, or many stay the night and leave on day 5. In addition to not having any real celebration (especially for the winners) we also lose all of our help. Both formal and informal. Yes, we?re low on judges, but pilots lose their callers and helpers. If a LOT of people needed to stay (those involved in the finals, flying, judging, scoring, helping with the banquet, whatever) even more people would stay to participate. And you would simply plan for it. The Nats would be thought of as a 4 day event and people would schedule that. As it stands now, it varies based on how well you fly. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:56 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Good ideas! I've flown both Intermediate and Advanced at the Nats and I like the idea of a finals added for those two classes... a lot! I also like the idea of having the banquet at the end of the Nats. It really would be a party then! ;-) To play the devil's advocate... How many more than the final eight for those classes would stay for that last evening? JLK _____ From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:39:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I?ll let other chime in on the masters /FAI stuff, but I?d like to add to Mikes comment on Advanced and say we should add both an Advanced Finals, as well as an Intermediate Finals. Reduce the finalists to 8, and you?ll have time to fit both in on Site 4 on Finals day. All the same motivations, and it keeps more people around for the last day. I?d really like to see ALL classes finish up on the same day. IF that day can be a Friday, or a Saturday?I?d like to see the Banquet CLOSE the event rather than be in the middle. I think it would be great if every planned to stay that last day to see everyone fly, to help with the final judging, and have a party at the end to celebrate everyone?s success. As it stands now, the only consolidated social event comes on the evening that everyone is MOST concerned about getting in a few rounds of practice. We?re forced to choose between spending quality time with friends we only get to see once a year, or practicing to do our best in THE competition of the year that we?ve spent all year prepping for. For FAI, it?s getting a flight or two up on the F pattern. In the other classes?it?s your last chance to make the finals. It?s a little messed up. Thoughts?? -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/29/09 18:07:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Jul 30 09:17:17 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:17:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <567101.87672.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <567101.87672.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004201ca1139$93bebf00$bb3c3d00$@net> As per my article, the advanced finals is self contained with its non finalists and intermediates that would volunteer. mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:25 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Some more volunteers will be needed to make this all work . . . . . Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _____ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25:07 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Excellent idea. Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they?re overwhelmed. There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters. They?re not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots. They?re finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI. We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally. We all know the top dogs are the FAI finalists? but that shouldn?t diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK _____ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 30 09:19:44 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:19:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> Message-ID: <21731D97-B6D7-4C43-AC48-BAA147AA5531@cox.net> Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff >>> that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>> compete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>> check-in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>> pass) before they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>> rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 09:20:33 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:20:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> Message-ID: <3454543c0907301020t69046fehb7bee3e006e27af8@mail.gmail.com> Practice is overrated especially the day before the Nats is due to start. I will personally man the processing for the entire day if need be... see you there! On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of > checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. Competitors > are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day weighing/measuring up to > 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup airplanes) when they could be out > practicing. > > Ron VP > . > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > > Mike, >> >> >> >> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas the week >> after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff that we?re going to >> ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much what you?ve outlined below is >> in that list with some variations. >> >> >> >> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that compete ? >> everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check-in ? each plane >> will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if anyone fails to make weight or >> size then they?ll have the whole day on check-in day to make modifications >> but will need to be weighed and measured again before the check-in period >> ends (and pass) before they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will >> also be made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). >> >> >> >> -Derek >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: 'Don Ramsey' >> Subject: nats format >> >> >> >> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views >> of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to >> have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the >> nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has >> worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has >> responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. >> With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would >> be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >> >> >> >> They are: >> >> 1. Have a finals for advanced >> >> a. 8 finalists >> >> b. 3 rounds >> >> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) >> >> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >> >> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >> >> f. Do on 4th day >> >> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >> >> 2. Modify masters accordingly >> >> a. 3 round finals >> >> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> d. 10 finalists >> >> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> 3. Fai >> >> a. 3 rounds final >> >> b. F-11 flown 1 time >> >> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >> >> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized >> score >> >> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> f. 10 finalists >> >> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> >> >> Rationale behind changes: >> >> >> >> Advanced >> >> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. >> It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This >> format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It >> could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. >> >> >> >> Masters >> >> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does >> someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. >> The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure >> issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and >> takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the >> argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate >> score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of >> variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the >> competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the >> prelims score can be dropped. >> >> >> >> FAI >> >> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the >> semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so >> large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the >> semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at >> the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 >> normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score >> carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F >> pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the >> F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would >> love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the >> world. It would be a showcase event. >> >> >> >> To conclude: >> >> >> >> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best >> pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer >> personnel to do the finals. >> >> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some >> kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. >> >> >> >> Respectfully >> >> Mike Harrison >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Thu Jul 30 09:22:02 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:22:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Message-ID: <874718.83665.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I?think the plan is to do this when you check in at the farmhouse. At least that's the way?I suggested that it gets done. In other words - as people arrive, not in a huge group. Most of the time I've been there there's never been more than a few guys picking up their packets at any given time. There won't be a line of 150 airplanes. Just?three or four?people with one or two airplanes apiece. This makes sense to me. We used to be able to get Street-Stock, SK Modified AND NASCAR Modified checked in before practice using the same method. :) ? John Pavlick ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Archie Stafford wrote: From: Archie Stafford Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 1:01 PM I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job.? Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup airplanes) when they could be out practicing. > > Ron VP > . > On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> >> >> Thanks for responding.? The board discussed a lot of these ideas the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year.? Pretty much what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. >> >> >> >> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that compete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check-in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) before they?ll be allowed to fly.? Random weight checks will also be made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). >> >> >> >> -Derek >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: 'Don Ramsey' >> Subject: nats format >> >> >> >> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >> >> >> >> They are: >> >> 1.? ? ???Have a finals for advanced >> >> a.? ? ???8 finalists >> >> b.? ? ? 3 rounds >> >> c.? ? ???Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) >> >> d.? ? ? The site is open so it is not a space issue >> >> e.? ? ? 24 flights would take app 3 hours >> >> f.? ? ? ? Do on 4th day >> >> g.? ? ???Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> h.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >> >> 2.? ? ???Modify masters accordingly >> >> a.? ? ???3 round finals >> >> b.? ? ? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> c.? ? ???Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> d.? ? ? 10 finalists >> >> e.? ? ? 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> 3.? ? ???Fai >> >> a.? ? ???3 rounds final >> >> b.? ? ? F-11 flown 1 time >> >> c.? ? ???Each unknown(1&2) flown once >> >> d.? ? ? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score >> >> e.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> f.? ? ? ? 10 finalists >> >> g.? ? ???30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> >> >> Rationale behind changes: >> >> >> >> Advanced >> >> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. >> >> >> >> Masters >> >> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.???The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. >> >> >> >> FAI >> >> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores.???I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. >> >> >> >> To conclude: >> >> >> >> I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >> >> There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. >> >> >> >> Respectfully >> >> Mike Harrison >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilsorc at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 09:25:14 2009 From: wilsorc at gmail.com (Bob Wilson) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:25:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - Breakfast Message-ID: <888fdd980907301025l252ceeecmf211f93ea1a0b384@mail.gmail.com> For all contestants, We will be meeting for breakfast at 6:30 on both Saturday and Sunday at Bob Evans Restaurant. The address is: 8821 N. Allen Rd, Peoria, Illinos. Look for us at the back of the establishment...we're the rowdy ones! Hope to see you there. Bob Wilson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 09:44:55 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:44:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E44@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Agreed. This is no different than attending the pilots meeting. Check in, weigh in, etc. I would argue you could get one or two people willing to facilitate and monitor it in exchange for their judging duties (I would be one! ) -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of > checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. > Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day > weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup > airplanes) when they could be out practicing. > > Ron VP > . > On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> >> >> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >> the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff >> that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >> what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. >> >> >> >> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that c >> ompete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check >> -in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if >> anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole da >> y on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighe >> d and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) be >> fore they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will also be >> made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). >> >> >> >> -Derek >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: 'Don Ramsey' >> Subject: nats format >> >> >> >> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my >> views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been >> very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work >> and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the >> event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >> >> >> >> They are: >> >> 1. Have a finals for advanced >> >> a. 8 finalists >> >> b. 3 rounds >> >> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >> volunteers) >> >> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >> >> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >> >> f. Do on 4th day >> >> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >> >> 2. Modify masters accordingly >> >> a. 3 round finals >> >> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> d. 10 finalists >> >> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> 3. Fai >> >> a. 3 rounds final >> >> b. F-11 flown 1 time >> >> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >> >> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >> normalized score >> >> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> f. 10 finalists >> >> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> >> >> Rationale behind changes: >> >> >> >> Advanced >> >> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced >> class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for >> them. This format is totally self contained with no additional >> personnel required. It could be started and finished before the >> masters and fai is done. >> >> >> >> Masters >> >> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best >> in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument >> is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I >> propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the >> number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is >> cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the >> prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score >> to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number >> of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, >> etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 >> flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. >> >> >> >> FAI >> >> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event >> in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and >> the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over >> the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply >> at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 2 >> 0 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Ther >> efore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over >> into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F patter >> n and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing >> the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the othe >> r pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the >> best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. >> >> >> >> To conclude: >> >> >> >> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; >> fewer personnel to do the finals. >> >> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of >> some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be >> implemented. >> >> >> >> Respectfully >> >> Mike Harrison >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 From jlkonn at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 09:48:04 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:48:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - Breakfast In-Reply-To: <888fdd980907301025l252ceeecmf211f93ea1a0b384@mail.gmail.com> References: <888fdd980907301025l252ceeecmf211f93ea1a0b384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Bob, Do we go there direct from Bernardi's? ;-) JLK Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:25:12 -0500 From: wilsorc at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - Breakfast For all contestants, We will be meeting for breakfast at 6:30 on both Saturday and Sunday at Bob Evans Restaurant. The address is: 8821 N. Allen Rd, Peoria, Illinos. Look for us at the back of the establishment...we're the rowdy ones! Hope to see you there. Bob Wilson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 09:50:20 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:50:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E45@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Joe I think this is actually going to HELP the work pool. The more people that stay for that last day...well, the more people that stay. Many travel in groups and compete somewhat as a group. I didn't go home Thursday because Mike Klein made the FAI finals and we have spent the summer practicing together, so I wanted to stay and watch. As it turned out...I ended up judging. I would not have been available had he not been in the finals. Most people have a caller, or other comrades that would stay if they were in the finals. So keeping 8 adv, and 8 Intermediate finalists, also will likely keep that many again in supporters. Not to mention that some of the morning finalists in Adv could be tapped to help judge the afternoon rounds in either Masters or FAI. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:40 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest this. But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI panned out. Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? They get equal exposure already. If there is a finals for Advanced and Intermediate, it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge Advanced this year and that is what I see from this experience. Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day 3. Also, for this to really work properly, there is a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to mention more volunteers or paid individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to weigh every plane, etc. What really messed up this years Nats was the fact that no shows did not bother to contact Dave early enough or at all for him to fix judging assignments. No shows are what really screw things up for the contest management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an imbalance in matrix seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10 or so judges from the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to make things work. This does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This all gets amplified when there is a year with lower than usual attendance which this year was. ________________________________ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison ________________________________ Windows Live(tm) SkyDrive(tm): Store, access, and share your photos. See how. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billpritch at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 09:51:42 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:51:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E44@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E44@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <545737.7078.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> I'll help Mark...... he needs it, and I know just how to handle him. Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:39:17 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Agreed. This is no different than attending the pilots meeting. Check in, weigh in, etc. I would argue you could get one or two people willing to facilitate and monitor it in exchange for their judging duties (I would be one! ) -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of > checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. > Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day > weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup > airplanes) when they could be out practicing. > > Ron VP > . > On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> >> >> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >> the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff >> that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >> what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. >> >> >> >> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that c >> ompete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check >> -in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if >> anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole da >> y on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighe >> d and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) be >> fore they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will also be >> made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). >> >> >> >> -Derek >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: 'Don Ramsey' >> Subject: nats format >> >> >> >> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my >> views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been >> very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work >> and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the >> event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >> >> >> >> They are: >> >> 1. Have a finals for advanced >> >> a. 8 finalists >> >> b. 3 rounds >> >> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >> volunteers) >> >> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >> >> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >> >> f. Do on 4th day >> >> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >> >> 2. Modify masters accordingly >> >> a. 3 round finals >> >> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> d. 10 finalists >> >> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> 3. Fai >> >> a. 3 rounds final >> >> b. F-11 flown 1 time >> >> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >> >> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >> normalized score >> >> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> f. 10 finalists >> >> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> >> >> Rationale behind changes: >> >> >> >> Advanced >> >> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced >> class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for >> them. This format is totally self contained with no additional >> personnel required. It could be started and finished before the >> masters and fai is done. >> >> >> >> Masters >> >> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best >> in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument >> is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I >> propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the >> number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is >> cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the >> prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score >> to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number >> of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, >> etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 >> flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. >> >> >> >> FAI >> >> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event >> in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and >> the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over >> the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply >> at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 2 >> 0 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Ther >> efore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over >> into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F patter >> n and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing >> the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the othe >> r pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the >> best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. >> >> >> >> To conclude: >> >> >> >> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; >> fewer personnel to do the finals. >> >> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of >> some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be >> implemented. >> >> >> >> Respectfully >> >> Mike Harrison >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 09:53:14 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:53:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <21731D97-B6D7-4C43-AC48-BAA147AA5531@cox.net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> <21731D97-B6D7-4C43-AC48-BAA147AA5531@cox.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Ron, Do we know why so few Intermediate pilots were asked to judge? I realize that they're the "least experienced" per say, but we do ask them to get certified, so it's a little bit of a slap if we make them do that and then pass on their help. Also, per my previous message, many of them are not beginners and actually have a fair amount of judging experience. With 3 judge panels, it's a perfect time for them to get more experience since you can sprinkle them in amongst more seasoned judges. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 From wilsorc at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 09:53:16 2009 From: wilsorc at gmail.com (Bob Wilson) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:53:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - Breakfast In-Reply-To: References: <888fdd980907301025l252ceeecmf211f93ea1a0b384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <888fdd980907301053n2598c4c9w9800546c765afe98@mail.gmail.com> No, unfortunately Bernardi's closes at 11:00 or so. We could, however, adjourn to "Big Als" or the "Riverboat Paradice Cassino". Wait a minute, I'm getting too old for that stuff. Besides, I've got a contest to run in the morning. b On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:48 PM, John Konneker wrote: > Bob, > Do we go there direct from Bernardi's? > ;-) > JLK > > ------------------------------ > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:25:12 -0500 > From: wilsorc at gmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - Breakfast > > > For all contestants, > We will be meeting for breakfast at 6:30 on both Saturday and Sunday at Bob > Evans Restaurant. The address is: 8821 N. Allen Rd, Peoria, Illinos. > > Look for us at the back of the establishment...we're the rowdy ones! > > Hope to see you there. > > Bob Wilson > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Jul 30 09:54:14 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:54:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <545737.7078.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E44@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <545737.7078.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E47@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Stop teasing? you know I like it when you talk dirty? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Pritchett Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:52 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I'll help Mark...... he needs it, and I know just how to handle him. Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:39:17 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Agreed. This is no different than attending the pilots meeting. Check in, weigh in, etc. I would argue you could get one or two people willing to facilitate and monitor it in exchange for their judging duties (I would be one! ) -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte > wrote: > If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of > checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. > Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day > weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup > airplanes) when they could be out practicing. > > Ron VP > . > On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> >> >> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >> the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff >> that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >> what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. >> >> >> >> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that c >> ompete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check >> -in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if >> anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole da >> y on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighe >> d and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) be >> fore they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will also be >> made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). >> >> >> >> -Derek >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: 'Don Ramsey' >> Subject: nats format >> >> >> >> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my >> views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been >> very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work >> and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the >> event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >> >> >> >> They are: >> >> 1. Have a finals for advanced >> >> a. 8 finalists >> >> b. 3 rounds >> >> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >> volunteers) >> >> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >> >> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >> >> f. Do on 4th day >> >> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >> >> 2. Modify masters accordingly >> >> a. 3 round finals >> >> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> d. 10 finalists >> >> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> 3. Fai >> >> a. 3 rounds final >> >> b. F-11 flown 1 time >> >> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >> >> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >> normalized score >> >> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> f. 10 finalists >> >> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> >> >> Rationale behind changes: >> >> >> >> Advanced >> >> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced >> class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for >> them. This format is totally self contained with no additional >> personnel required. It could be started and finished before the >> masters and fai is done. >> >> >> >> Masters >> >> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best >> in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument >> is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I >> propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the >> number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is >> cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the >> prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score >> to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number >> of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, >> etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 >> flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. >> >> >> >> FAI >> >> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event >> in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and >> the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over >> the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply >> at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 2 >> 0 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Ther >> efore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over >> into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F patter >> n and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing >> the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the othe >> r pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the >> best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. >> >> >> >> To conclude: >> >> >> >> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; >> fewer personnel to do the finals. >> >> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of >> some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be >> implemented. >> >> >> >> Respectfully >> >> Mike Harrison >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Jul 30 09:59:53 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 17:59:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <8CBDF49E1A85187-1718-2852@webmail-da13.sysops.aol.com> References: <176D364E9D9C422B9BA0A77790B92D91@Tony> <8CBDF49E1A85187-1718-2852@webmail-da13.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7F9B2CBF1EC740E09FFEFF719BF8CDF8@Tony> Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:28 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony Is the AMA considering the old traveling show style of Nats where all events were happening within the same two week time frame? That was possibly tougher to do than the current format. However, from a model enthusiast point of view, I loved spending time at events I never got to see otherwise.I found that about as intersting as anything I did in Pattern MattK -----Original Message----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 12:20 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It is important to note that AMA would like to do this as well. It would free up time in the summer and reduce the number of weeks required to have the NATS. AMA is even considering moving the ENTIRE NATS every so often! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:17 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Please visit the NSRCA website to vote - www.nsrca.us A number of years ago it was suggested that the NSRCA should look into moving the Nationals from Muncie on a "rotational" basis. What this meant was that one year it would be in Muncie and then the following year it would move elsewhere and then back to Muncie again, and then the cycle would be repeated. Ostensibly the idea was that we would rotate the Nationals around the country with each region hosting it on a given cycle so that the East/West/South, for example, would get to host the Nationals every 8 years. The rotation could look like: 1. Muncie 2. East Coast location 3. Muncie 4. Southern (Texas, Louisiana) location 5. Muncie 6. West Coast location 7. Muncie Nothing ever came of this plan, unfortunately. However, last year we mentioned that there was a group in Louisiana that had a lot of interest in hosting the Nationals at some point, but due to some concerns at their local county/parish board (new board installed) in the location that would allow them to use the airport, the guys decided to wait until they could contact the new board and then revisit the plan again. This past June, they contacted the NSRCA about the possibility of hosting the Nationals again since they now had the approval of this board to go ahead. The NSRCA board talked about this at the board meeting at the Nationals and decided to poll the membership as to their preferences. We also talked about the fact that mid-July in Louisiana was very hot and humid and perhaps moving the Nationals to later summer/early fall would be preferable. ; Unfortunately this may preclude a number of our younger school going competitors from competing since it would involve missing at least 4 days of school. The NSRCA board would still like to get your opinion on this... should we move the Nationals (for one year - 2010) to Louisiana and, if so, should the Nationals be held at the same time it currently is held or moved to the late summer. Another question that we are asking is to find out if in fact you want to move it to Louisiana or would you prefer to have it relocated to another part of the country (the problem with this is that we would need to find local pattern pilots interested in helping us find a location since we don't have any other places defined at this time). We realize this poll is not scientific but at least it will give us an idea of the interest level. We would also really appreciate your concerns or questions related to this potential change so please feel free to email your local district VP or any of the NSRCA officers. Thanks for voting. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 10:03:53 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:03:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - Breakfast In-Reply-To: <888fdd980907301053n2598c4c9w9800546c765afe98@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <162979.69526.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey you didn't tell us about any Casino's. In that case expect an overflow crowd!!!! Mike --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bob Wilson wrote: > From: Bob Wilson > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - Breakfast > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:53 PM > No, unfortunately Bernardi's closes at > 11:00 or so.? We could, however, adjourn to "Big > Als" or the "Riverboat Paradice Cassino". > > Wait a minute, I'm getting too old for that stuff.? > Besides, I've got a contest to run in the morning. > > > b > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 12:48 PM, > John Konneker > wrote: > > > > > > > Bob, > > Do we go there direct from Bernardi's? > > ;-) > > JLK > ? > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 12:25:12 -0500 > From: wilsorc at gmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fat Lake Pattern - > Breakfast > > For all contestants, > We will be meeting for breakfast at 6:30 on both Saturday > and Sunday at Bob Evans Restaurant.? The address is:? 8821 > N. Allen Rd, Peoria, Illinos. > > > Look for us at the back of the establishment...we're > the rowdy ones! > > Hope to see you there. > > Bob Wilson > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ghwatson at comcast.net Thu Jul 30 10:04:37 2009 From: ghwatson at comcast.net (Glen Watson) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:04:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <21731D97-B6D7-4C43-AC48-BAA147AA5531@cox.net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com><3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net><8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> <21731D97-B6D7-4C43-AC48-BAA147AA5531@cox.net> Message-ID: <726683F21BBD49639BC0E7EFDC052A41@telapoint.local> In the past AMA was successful in obtaining volunteers from the surrounding community, elderly, girl/boy scouts, etc. Couldn't these types of volunteers perform admin functions of the weights and measure process? This would also be a great time to get an equipment list survey filled out maybe even a contestant photos... ~Glen W 2009 no show who failed to contact Dave G -- please accept my apology -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Thu Jul 30 10:06:06 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:06:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <7F9B2CBF1EC740E09FFEFF719BF8CDF8@Tony> References: <176D364E9D9C422B9BA0A77790B92D91@Tony> <8CBDF49E1A85187-1718-2852@webmail-da13.sysops.aol.com> <7F9B2CBF1EC740E09FFEFF719BF8CDF8@Tony> Message-ID: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible... The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and > will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be > very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 10:36:50 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:36:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <726683F21BBD49639BC0E7EFDC052A41@telapoint.local> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com><3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net><8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> <21731D97-B6D7-4C43-AC48-BAA147AA5531@cox.net> <726683F21BBD49639BC0E7EFDC052A41@telapoint.local> Message-ID: And there was controversy > From: ghwatson at comcast.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 13:04:53 -0500 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > In the past AMA was successful in obtaining volunteers from the surrounding > community, elderly, girl/boy scouts, etc. Couldn't these types of > volunteers perform admin functions of the weights and measure process? This > would also be a great time to get an equipment list survey filled out maybe > even a contestant photos... > > ~Glen W > 2009 no show who failed to contact Dave G -- please accept my apology > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:20 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The > other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the > job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging > pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this > year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers > came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. > > Ron VP > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > > > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > > > Arch > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day > >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. > >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day > >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup > >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. > >> > >> Ron VP > >> . > >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > >> > >>> Mike, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas > >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff > >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much > >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that > >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of > >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if > >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole > >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be > >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and > >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks > >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be > >>> determined later). > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -Derek > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison > >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM > >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' > >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' > >>> Subject: nats format > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share > >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have > >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that > >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by > >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and > >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to > >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With > >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that > >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> They are: > >>> > >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced > >>> > >>> a. 8 finalists > >>> > >>> b. 3 rounds > >>> > >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified > >>> volunteers) > >>> > >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue > >>> > >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours > >>> > >>> f. Do on 4th day > >>> > >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score > >>> > >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner > >>> > >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly > >>> > >>> a. 3 round finals > >>> > >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score > >>> > >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > >>> > >>> d. 10 finalists > >>> > >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > >>> > >>> 3. Fai > >>> > >>> a. 3 rounds final > >>> > >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time > >>> > >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once > >>> > >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 > >>> normalized score > >>> > >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > >>> > >>> f. 10 finalists > >>> > >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Rationale behind changes: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Advanced > >>> > >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the > >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of > >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no > >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished > >>> before the masters and fai is done. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Masters > >>> > >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times > >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the > >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only > >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The > >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I > >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that > >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. > >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a > >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 > >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring > >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to > >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can > >>> be dropped. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> FAI > >>> > >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world > >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the > >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change > >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This > >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats > >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a > >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be > >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The > >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 > >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then > >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see > >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. > >>> It would be a showcase event. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> To conclude: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to > >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the > >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the > >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. > >>> > >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections > >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should > >>> be implemented. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Respectfully > >>> > >>> Mike Harrison > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From completemarine02 at sprintpcs.com Thu Jul 30 11:37:35 2009 From: completemarine02 at sprintpcs.com (Rusty Fried) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:37:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <000001ca114d$16ea7aa0$44bf6fe0$@com> It is not about equal exposure it about giving proper recognition to all AMA classes. These guys deserve the same recognition as Masters or F3A. They pay their money let's give them a good showcase. As far as judging you can use the class members to judge their own finals. I feel if this is really an AMA National let's treat it that way. Rusty. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:40 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest this. But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI panned out. Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? They get equal exposure already. If there is a finals for Advanced and Intermediate, it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge Advanced this year and that is what I see from this experience. Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day 3. Also, for this to really work properly, there is a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to mention more volunteers or paid individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to weigh every plane, etc. What really messed up this years Nats was the fact that no shows did not bother to contact Dave early enough or at all for him to fix judging assignments. No shows are what really screw things up for the contest management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an imbalance in matrix seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10 or so judges from the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to make things work. This does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This all gets amplified when there is a year with lower than usual attendance which this year was. _____ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison _____ Windows LiveT SkyDriveT: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timsautopro at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 11:39:25 2009 From: timsautopro at yahoo.com (Tim Taylor) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:39:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> Message-ID: <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> It was done, It was called NPAC ? Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible?? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 30 11:46:51 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:46:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com> <3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net> <8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> <21731D97-B6D7-4C43-AC48-BAA147AA5531@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Certainly several of the Intermediate pilots were qualified to judge. In the past, the Nats entry form had a place to check whether the pilot did/did not feel qualified to judge. In fact, a couple of years ago, several Intermediate pilots judged Advanced more than once. However, John Fuqua, Greg Grigsby and I assisted a pilot attending his first Nats and only his third contest. The Nats was his first competition in Intermediate. He definitely should not have judged Advanced. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Ron, > > Do we know why so few Intermediate pilots were asked to judge? I > realize that they're the "least experienced" per say, but we do ask > them to get certified, so it's a little bit of a slap if we make > them do that and then pass on their help. Also, per my previous > message, many of them are not beginners and actually have a fair > amount of judging experience. With 3 judge panels, it's a perfect > time for them to get more experience since you can sprinkle them in > amongst more seasoned judges. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The > other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the > job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging > pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this > year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers > came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. > > Ron VP > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > >> I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part >> of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that >> bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. >> >> Arch >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: >> >>> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >>> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >>> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >>> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >>> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >>> >>> Ron VP >>> . >>> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>>> determined later). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Derek >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>>> Subject: nats format >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They are: >>>> >>>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>>> >>>> a. 8 finalists >>>> >>>> b. 3 rounds >>>> >>>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>>> volunteers) >>>> >>>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>>> >>>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>>> >>>> f. Do on 4th day >>>> >>>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>> >>>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>>> >>>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>>> >>>> a. 3 round finals >>>> >>>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>> >>>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>> >>>> d. 10 finalists >>>> >>>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>> >>>> 3. Fai >>>> >>>> a. 3 rounds final >>>> >>>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>>> >>>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>>> >>>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>>> normalized score >>>> >>>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>> >>>> f. 10 finalists >>>> >>>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rationale behind changes: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Advanced >>>> >>>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>>> before the masters and fai is done. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Masters >>>> >>>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>>> be dropped. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> FAI >>>> >>>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>>> It would be a showcase event. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To conclude: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>>> >>>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>>> be implemented. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Respectfully >>>> >>>> Mike Harrison >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: > 07/30/09 05:58:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 30 11:51:26 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:51:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48EF590F-349E-445F-AE6C-59CC7F92F1B0@cox.net> NPAC was really a rebellion against then-current AMA policies. We wanted more control over the R/C Aerobatics Nats and AMA didn't want to relinquish it. The object of the two NPACS was to demonstrate to AMA that we were capable of running our own national championships and would do it without AMA if we couldn't get what we wanted. I don't want to say that AMA "caved", but NSRCA ended up with control over our Nats. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Tim Taylor wrote: > It was done, It was called NPAC > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. > Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their > own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: >> >> >> Matt: >> Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible? The >> problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC >> and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It >> may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this >> group. >> >> > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Jul 30 11:55:37 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:55:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Thu Jul 30 13:41:36 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:41:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> Message-ID: <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 30 14:40:10 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:40:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A380 hard landing at Oshkosh References: <4A70F00C.9090401@comcast.net> Message-ID: Looks as if it's about a 25 knot crosswind from the left. In a crosswind, don't expect any help from ground effect. And, he didn't get any, either! Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gayer" To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 8:57 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A380 hard landing at Oshkosh > We are not the only ones to make a less than perfect landing > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iIG1ZOPLJA > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Jul 30 14:45:22 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:45:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: > Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing > Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even > thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when > we compete for runway space and days to fly. > > I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do > that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment > about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost > more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > > No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current > format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. > I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system > that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At > least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather > exposure per round. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a > 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as > well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult > to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > < > http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 30 15:07:11 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:07:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <73F0F54B0E594545AACDD52BD42F63AC@glazecstp32xp> Glad that you recognized that not everyone has the capability or ambition to be a Master or FAI pilot. For whatever reason. I feel that fact doesn't make their membership in NSRCA an less valuable, nor does it make them a second-class member. IMHO. However, my feeling is that, if you want them to stick around, that they should be given (granted?) the same consideration as all other classes. Not venting, or ranting; just stating a belief. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Excellent idea. Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they're overwhelmed. There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters. They're not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots. They're finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI. We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally. We all know the top dogs are the FAI finalists. but that shouldn't diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 15:26:28 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:26:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <73F0F54B0E594545AACDD52BD42F63AC@glazecstp32xp> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <73F0F54B0E594545AACDD52BD42F63AC@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Jul 30 15:30:52 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:30:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> Message-ID: Interesting as to how things have changed. In the past, when the Nats were held same time/same place, they could have as many as 1300 contestants, most of whom entered more than one event. It started to get complicated when the mix included not only Free Flight (Gas, Rubber), but then Control Line, (Aerobatics, Speed, Carrier, etc.) and adding to the complication was the then-new Radio Control. Sometimes with a grand entry of as many as 6 or 8 contestants for the radio folks. It just gets worse and worse to accomodate everyone and every discipline, it seems. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Thu Jul 30 15:44:06 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 23:44:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> Message-ID: <4A723044.6060208@cox.net> One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more than a big contest held in Indiana. AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way to allow more people to participate. My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get to Muncie. Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the geographic center of the US!!! From cahochhalter at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 16:54:21 2009 From: cahochhalter at yahoo.com (Charles Hochhalter) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 00:54:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Message-ID: <420511.51829.qm@web83201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Why cant the finalists from advanced judge intermediate and vice versa. ? Seems it would work to me.. long day but worth it cause they are in the FINALS. ? Chuck --- On Thu, 7/30/09, michael s harrison wrote: From: michael s harrison Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 3:55 PM The advanced, as I said in my initial proposal is self supportive.? It does not require recruiting additional judges per say.? It comes from the intermediate pool and those that did not make the finals. Mike ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:40 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? I have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest this. ? But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI panned out. ? Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? They get equal exposure already. If?there is a finals for Advanced?and Intermediate, it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge?Advanced this year and that is what I see from this experience. Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day 3. ? Also,?for this to really?work properly, there is a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to mention more volunteers? or paid individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to weigh every plane, etc. ? What really messed up this years Nats was the fact that?no shows did not bother to contact Dave early enough or at all?for him to fix judging assignments. No shows?are what really screw things up for the contest management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an imbalance in?matrix seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10? or so judges from the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to make things work. This does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This?all gets amplified when there is a year with lower than usual attendance which this year was. ? From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format ? ? From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format ? After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. ? They are: 1.????? Have a finals for advanced a.????? 8 finalists b.????? 3 rounds c.????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f.?????? Do on 4th day g.????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2.????? Modify masters accordingly a.????? 3 round finals b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d.????? 10 finalists e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3.????? Fai a.????? 3 rounds final b.????? F-11 flown 1 time c.????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f.?????? 10 finalists g.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours ? Rationale behind changes: ? Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? ? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? ? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? ? To conclude: ? I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. ? Respectfully Mike Harrison ? Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Thu Jul 30 16:58:25 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 00:58:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format References: <420511.51829.qm@web83201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6409019C09AD430983D101C4CA8B73C0@MARK> You would need 9 pilots to cover three rounds of judging...3 judges for each round....9 finalists and it works. ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles Hochhalter To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 19:54 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why cant the finalists from advanced judge intermediate and vice versa. Seems it would work to me.. long day but worth it cause they are in the FINALS. Chuck --- On Thu, 7/30/09, michael s harrison wrote: From: michael s harrison Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 3:55 PM The advanced, as I said in my initial proposal is self supportive. It does not require recruiting additional judges per say. It comes from the intermediate pool and those that did not make the finals. Mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:40 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest this. But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI panned out. Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? They get equal exposure already. If there is a finals for Advanced and Intermediate, it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge Advanced this year and that is what I see from this experience. Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day 3. Also, for this to really work properly, there is a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to mention more volunteers or paid individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to weigh every plane, etc. What really messed up this years Nats was the fact that no shows did not bother to contact Dave early enough or at all for him to fix judging assignments. No shows are what really screw things up for the contest management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an imbalance in matrix seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10 or so judges from the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to make things work. This does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This all gets amplified when there is a year with lower than usual attendance which this year was. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cahochhalter at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 17:01:19 2009 From: cahochhalter at yahoo.com (Charles Hochhalter) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:01:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Message-ID: <742193.28808.qm@web83202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I will be with you Derek.. if I havent figured it out by then, I am not going to have a revelation Monday. ? Chuck --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: From: Derek Koopowitz Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 5:20 PM Practice is overrated especially the day before the Nats is due to start.? I will personally man the processing for the entire day if need be... see you there! On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. ?Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup airplanes) when they could be out practicing. Ron VP . On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: Mike, Thanks for responding. ?The board discussed a lot of these ideas the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. ?Pretty much what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that compete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check-in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) before they?ll be allowed to fly. ?Random weight checks will also be made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). -Derek From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. ?I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. ?That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. ?I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. ?With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. ? ? ? Have a finals for advanced a. ? ? ? 8 finalists b. ? ? ?3 rounds c. ? ? ? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. ? ? ?The site is open so it is not a space issue e. ? ? ?24 flights would take app 3 hours f. ? ? ? ?Do on 4th day g. ? ? ? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. ? ? ?Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. ? ? ? Modify masters accordingly a. ? ? ? 3 round finals b. ? ? ?Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. ? ? ? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. ? ? ?10 finalists e. ? ? ?30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. ? ? ? Fai a. ? ? ? 3 rounds final b. ? ? ?F-11 flown 1 time c. ? ? ? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. ? ? ?Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. ? ? ?Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. ? ? ? ?10 finalists g. ? ? ? 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. ?It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. ?This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. ?It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. ?How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. ?The present system is 10 times! ?The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. ? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. ?I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. ?Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. ?Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. ?Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. ?This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats. ?The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. ?Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. ?The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. ?Count 3 of 4 scores. ? I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. ?I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. ?We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. ?I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seefo at san.rr.com Thu Jul 30 17:08:37 2009 From: seefo at san.rr.com (Doug Cronkhite) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:08:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <420511.51829.qm@web83201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <420511.51829.qm@web83201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E36131D-9C50-4965-915E-B0575625F8C7@san.rr.com> The Nats should be the same format for every class flown. -Doug Sent from my iPhone On Jul 30, 2009, at 5:54 PM, Charles Hochhalter wrote: > Why cant the finalists from advanced judge intermediate and vice > versa. > > Seems it would work to me.. long day but worth it cause they are in > the FINALS. > > Chuck > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, michael s harrison > wrote: > > From: michael s harrison > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 3:55 PM > > The advanced, as I said in my initial proposal is self supportive. > It does not require recruiting additional judges per say. It comes > from the intermediate pool and those that did not make the finals. > > Mike > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:40 AM > To: NSRCA Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > > > I have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest this. > > But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the Masters > and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top > of that really makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime > example, there was an imbalance of judges district wise in the > Masters finals. Don't know how FAI panned out. > > Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? They get > equal exposure already. If there is a finals for Advanced and > Intermediate, it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the > opportunity to judge Advanced this year and that is what I see from > this experience. Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the > the 8th being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between > numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day 3. > > Also, for this to really work properly, there is a need for a pool > of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to mention > more volunteers or paid individuals for various other duties if > there is a plan to weigh every plane, etc. > > What really messed up this years Nats was the fact that no shows did > not bother to contact Dave early enough or at all for him to fix > judging assignments. No shows are what really screw things up for > the contest management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, > create an imbalance in matrix seeding and sends contest management > scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by the no shows. We > were short about 10 or so judges from the FAI and Masters pool. > This is the critical pool of judges to make things work. This does > not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This all gets > amplified when there is a year with lower than usual attendance > which this year was. > > > From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > > > > > From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > To: 'Don Ramsey' > Subject: nats format > > > > After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my > views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been > very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work > and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the > event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and > unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to > our desires to make this the best national event possible. With > that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that > would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. > > > > They are: > > 1. Have a finals for advanced > > a. 8 finalists > > b. 3 rounds > > c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified > volunteers) > > d. The site is open so it is not a space issue > > e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours > > f. Do on 4th day > > g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner > > 2. Modify masters accordingly > > a. 3 round finals > > b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score > > c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > d. 10 finalists > > e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > > 3. Fai > > a. 3 rounds final > > b. F-11 flown 1 time > > c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once > > d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 > normalized score > > e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner > > f. 10 finalists > > g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours > > > > Rationale behind changes: > > > > Advanced > > This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced > class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for > them. This format is totally self contained with no additional > personnel required. It could be started and finished before the > masters and fai is done. > > > > Masters > > Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times > does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best > in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument > is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I > propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the > number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is > cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the > prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score > to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of > variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, > etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 > flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. > > > > FAI > > The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event > in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the > pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the > course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at th > e nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots > , using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the > 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the fi > nals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknow > ns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule f > irst, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would lov > e to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the > world. It would be a showcase event. > > > > To conclude: > > > > I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to > advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the > best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; > fewer personnel to do the finals. > > There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of > some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be > implemented. > > > > Respectfully > > Mike Harrison > > > > Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. > See how. > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 17:29:25 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:29:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <000001ca114d$16ea7aa0$44bf6fe0$@com> Message-ID: <223724.31122.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I agree I want to see the Intermediate flyers get a finals. Let the finals Advanced flyers judge the Intermediate and vise versa. That solves the judging issue. Mike --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Rusty Fried wrote: > From: Rusty Fried > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not about equal exposure > it about giving proper recognition > to all AMA classes. These guys deserve the same recognition > as Masters or F3A. > They pay their money let?s give them a good > showcase. > > As far as judging you can use > ?the class members to judge their > own finals. I feel if this is really an AMA National > let?s treat it that > way. ?Rusty. ?? > > ? > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Joe > Lachowski > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:40 AM > > To: NSRCA Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats > format > > > > > > ? > > I > have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest > this. > > ? > > But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the > Masters and FAI > finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top > of that really > makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, > there was an imbalance > of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't > know how FAI panned out. > > ? > > Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? > They get equal > exposure already. If?there is a finals for > Advanced?and Intermediate, > it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity > to > judge?Advanced this year and that is what I see from > this experience. > Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th > being determined by > a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through > 11 or 12 at the end > of day 3. > > ? > > Also,?for this to really?work properly, there is > a need for a pool of > say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to > mention more > volunteers? or paid individuals for various other > duties if there is a > plan to weigh every plane, etc. > > ? > > What really messed up this years Nats was the fact > that?no shows did not > bother to contact Dave early enough or at all?for him > to fix judging > assignments. No shows?are what really screw things up > for the contest management. > No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an > imbalance in?matrix > seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill > judging assignments > vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10? or so > judges from the FAI > and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to > make things work. This > does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. > This?all gets > amplified when there is a year with lower than usual > attendance which this year > was. > > ? > > > > > > > > From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > > > ? > > ? > > > > > > From: michael s harrison > [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > > To: 'Don Ramsey' > > Subject: nats format > > > > > > ? > > After > considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share > my views of the nats > and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very > fortunate to have an > excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to > make the nats > happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave > Guerin, who has > worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this > job.? I believe he has > responded to our desires to make this the best national > event possible.? > With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can > make that would be a > win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. > > > ? > > They > are: > > 1.????? > Have a > finals for advanced > > a.????? > 8 finalists > > b.????? > 3 rounds > > c.????? > Judged by advanced > or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) > > d.????? > The site is open so > it is not a space issue > > e.????? > 24 flights would > take app 3 hours > > f.?????? > Do on 4th > day > > g.????? > Count the prelims > as a 1000 normalized score > > h.????? > Count 3 of 4 scores > for the winner > > 2.????? > Modify > masters accordingly > > a.????? > 3 round finals > > b.????? > Count prelims as a > 1000 normalized score > > c.????? > Count 3 of 4 for > the winner > > d.????? > 10 finalists > > e.????? > 30 flights about > 5.5 hours > > 3.????? > Fai > > a.????? > 3 rounds final > > b.????? > F-11 flown 1 time > > c.????? > Each > unknown(1&2) flown once > > d.????? > Count the > semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized > score > > e.????? > Count 3 of 4 for > the winner > > f.?????? > 10 finalists > > g.????? > 30 flights about > 5.5 hours > > ? > > Rationale > behind changes: > > ? > > Advanced > > > This > would make for a very exciting and fun event for the > advanced class.? It > would make the 4th day a very real part of the > nats for them.? > This format is totally self contained with no additional > personnel > required.? It could be started and finished before the > masters and fai is > done.? > > ? > > Masters > > > Masters > is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many > times does someone have > to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that > class.? The > present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the > equal exposure > issue-which may have merit.?? The system I > propose addresses that > issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of > finalists to 10 to > close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals > because of unequal > exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores > is, in my opinion a > legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period > of 3 days under a > number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, > unequal exposure, > etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that > concern.? Any 3 flights > count so the prelims score can be dropped.? > > > ? > > FAI > > The > argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world > event in the > semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and > the pool is so large > that conditions can change substantially over the course of > doing the > semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at > the nats.? The > semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, > using the prelim score > as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F > patterns can be combined > to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The > finals then becomes > a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 > scores. ??I > would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 > unknowns.? I > believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown > finals flown by some > of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase > event.? > > ? > > To > conclude: > > ? > > I > believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add > finals to advanced; > both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the > best pilots would be > showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer > personnel to do the > finals.? > > There > is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be > objections of some kind, > but I believe this system has real merit and should be > implemented. > > ? > > Respectfully > > Mike > Harrison > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Windows > Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your > photos. See how. > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ed_alt at hotmail.com Thu Jul 30 17:35:16 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:35:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <223724.31122.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <000001ca114d$16ea7aa0$44bf6fe0$@com> <223724.31122.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: This suggestion solves the judging problem in a less than equitable way. The difference is that you would be requiring all of the Advanced & Intermediate guys trying to close the deal on the Championship to judge. This is not really the same as what happens on the Masters and FAI lines in the finals. Ed -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:29 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree I want to see the Intermediate flyers get a finals. Let the finals Advanced flyers judge the Intermediate and vise versa. That solves the judging issue. Mike --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Rusty Fried wrote: > From: Rusty Fried > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:36 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not about equal exposure > it about giving proper recognition > to all AMA classes. These guys deserve the same recognition > as Masters or F3A. > They pay their money let?s give them a good > showcase. > > As far as judging you can use > the class members to judge their > own finals. I feel if this is really an AMA National > let?s treat it that > way. Rusty. > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Joe > Lachowski > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:40 AM > > To: NSRCA Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats > format > > > > > > > > I > have not read everyones comments to thoroughly to digest > this. > > > > But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the > Masters and FAI > finals already. Getting judges for the other classes on top > of that really > makes it difficult. This years Nats was a prime example, > there was an imbalance > of judges district wise in the Masters finals. Don't > know how FAI panned out. > > > > Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? > They get equal > exposure already. If there is a finals for > Advanced and Intermediate, > it really only needs to be the top 5. I had the opportunity > to > judge Advanced this year and that is what I see from > this experience. > Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th > being determined by > a one round sudden death flyoff between numbers 8 through > 11 or 12 at the end > of day 3. > > > > Also, for this to really work properly, there is > a need for a pool of > say, at least, 6 paid full time judges available. Not to > mention more > volunteers or paid individuals for various other > duties if there is a > plan to weigh every plane, etc. > > > > What really messed up this years Nats was the fact > that no shows did not > bother to contact Dave early enough or at all for him > to fix judging > assignments. No shows are what really screw things up > for the contest management. > No shows screw up flight order exposure, create an > imbalance in matrix > seeding and sends contest management scrambling to fill > judging assignments > vacated by the no shows. We were short about 10 or so > judges from the FAI > and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of judges to > make things work. This > does not include the Advanced and Intermediate no shows. > This all gets > amplified when there is a year with lower than usual > attendance which this year > was. > > > > > > > > > > From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > > > > > > > > > > > From: michael s harrison > [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > > To: 'Don Ramsey' > > Subject: nats format > > > > > > > > After > considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share > my views of the nats > and the classes flown. I believe we have been very > fortunate to have an > excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to > make the nats > happen. That group is led by the event director Dave > Guerin, who has > worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this > job. I believe he has > responded to our desires to make this the best national > event possible. > With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can > make that would be a > win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. > > > > > They > are: > > 1. > Have a > finals for advanced > > a. > 8 finalists > > b. > 3 rounds > > c. > Judged by advanced > or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) > > d. > The site is open so > it is not a space issue > > e. > 24 flights would > take app 3 hours > > f. > Do on 4th > day > > g. > Count the prelims > as a 1000 normalized score > > h. > Count 3 of 4 scores > for the winner > > 2. > Modify > masters accordingly > > a. > 3 round finals > > b. > Count prelims as a > 1000 normalized score > > c. > Count 3 of 4 for > the winner > > d. > 10 finalists > > e. > 30 flights about > 5.5 hours > > 3. > Fai > > a. > 3 rounds final > > b. > F-11 flown 1 time > > c. > Each > unknown(1&2) flown once > > d. > Count the > semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized > score > > e. > Count 3 of 4 for > the winner > > f. > 10 finalists > > g. > 30 flights about > 5.5 hours > > > > Rationale > behind changes: > > > > Advanced > > > This > would make for a very exciting and fun event for the > advanced class. It > would make the 4th day a very real part of the > nats for them. > This format is totally self contained with no additional > personnel > required. It could be started and finished before the > masters and fai is > done. > > > > Masters > > > Masters > is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many > times does someone have > to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that > class. The > present system is 10 times! The only argument is the > equal exposure > issue-which may have merit. The system I > propose addresses that > issue and takes less time. I raised the number of > finalists to 10 to > close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals > because of unequal > exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores > is, in my opinion a > legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period > of 3 days under a > number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, > unequal exposure, > etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that > concern. Any 3 flights > count so the prelims score can be dropped. > > > > > FAI > > The > argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world > event in the > semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and > the pool is so large > that conditions can change substantially over the course of > doing the > semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply at > the nats. The > semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, > using the prelim score > as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F > patterns can be combined > to be a score carried over into the finals event. The > finals then becomes > a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 > scores. I > would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 > unknowns. I > believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown > finals flown by some > of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase > event. > > > > To > conclude: > > > > I > believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add > finals to advanced; > both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the > best pilots would be > showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer > personnel to do the > finals. > > There > is no perfect system. I am sure there will be > objections of some kind, > but I believe this system has real merit and should be > implemented. > > > > Respectfully > > Mike > Harrison > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows > Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your > photos. See how. > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From rcpilot at wowway.com Thu Jul 30 17:41:39 2009 From: rcpilot at wowway.com (Ron Hansen) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:41:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <76FB2920C60B4C368A5563DC1C33175D@toshibauser> Here is one intermediate pilot that votes to have finals on Friday for intermediate and advanced. This year was my first NATS and I would be surprised if anyone said they were overwhelmed. I finished 12 out of 22 and my thought was that the announcement of the winners for intermediate and advanced was a bit uneventful because it was announced on Thurs afternoon and most people were gone when the awards were given out. I think it would be real neat to give out all awards at the banquet on Friday or Sat evening. Ron Hansen -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Excellent idea. Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they're overwhelmed. There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters. They're not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots. They're finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI. We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally. We all know the top dogs are the FAI finalists. but that shouldn't diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK _____ From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcpilot at wowway.com Thu Jul 30 17:51:27 2009 From: rcpilot at wowway.com (Ron Hansen) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 01:51:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> I agree Mark, after seeing the scoring spread in Intermediate and Advanced (many 2+ point differentials between judges) I would have to say that including intermediate pilots in the judging pool for Advanced certainly would not hurt. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:48 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Ron, Do we know why so few Intermediate pilots were asked to judge? I realize that they're the "least experienced" per say, but we do ask them to get certified, so it's a little bit of a slap if we make them do that and then pass on their help. Also, per my previous message, many of them are not beginners and actually have a fair amount of judging experience. With 3 judge panels, it's a perfect time for them to get more experience since you can sprinkle them in amongst more seasoned judges. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com From kerlock at comcast.net Thu Jul 30 19:25:23 2009 From: kerlock at comcast.net (Mike Hester) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:25:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><73F0F54B0E594545AACDD52BD42F63AC@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <93A66979BE3147889EE1F56148D7E7AE@Sanity> I agree totally, and I'm all for it. FWIW Melissa said she'd be happy to score it, no problem. I really don't think it'd be that hard to do. Every intermediate and advanced pilot I have asked said "hell yeah!" so I think it's viable. -Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Moon To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Bill: I agree 100% with you. Everyone pays the same entry fee and should have a similar experience. The Intermediate or Advanced Champion is no less excited than the Masters or FAI Champ I'm sure. Giving them a comparable event is the right thing to do and I will volunteer now to help judge their finals next year if they are short of judges. I understand the logistical issues but we need to have one event with 4 classes and not 2 events with the have and have nots. Chris Bill Glaze wrote: Glad that you recognized that not everyone has the capability or ambition to be a Master or FAI pilot. For whatever reason. I feel that fact doesn't make their membership in NSRCA an less valuable, nor does it make them a second-class member. IMHO. However, my feeling is that, if you want them to stick around, that they should be given (granted?) the same consideration as all other classes. Not venting, or ranting; just stating a belief. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Excellent idea. Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they're overwhelmed. There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters. They're not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots. They're finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI. We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally. We all know the top dogs are the FAI finalists. but that shouldn't diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 19:49:47 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:49:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <93A66979BE3147889EE1F56148D7E7AE@Sanity> Message-ID: <76072.60068.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Cool. A huge thanks to Mellisa! She owns site 4!!!! Awesome for you to have such a cool wife Mike! I can't wait for these guys to have a finals day! They deserve it! I was glad to be able to go down and watch as they announced the places down there this year. I think it's something we all should at least try to do. I got to judge advanced and it was fun to be able to see all the talented flyer's there! Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Mike Hester wrote: From: Mike Hester Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 8:25 PM I agree totally, and I'm all for it. ? FWIW Melissa said she'd be happy to score it, no problem. ? I really don't think it'd be that hard to do. Every intermediate and advanced pilot I have asked said "hell yeah!" so I think it's viable. ? -Mike ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Moon To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Bill: I agree 100% with you.? Everyone pays the same entry fee and should have a similar experience.? The Intermediate or Advanced Champion is no less excited than the Masters or FAI Champ I'm sure.? Giving them a comparable event is the right thing to do and I will volunteer now to help judge their finals next year if they are short of judges.? I understand the logistical issues but we need to have one event with 4 classes and not 2 events with the have and have nots. Chris Bill Glaze wrote: Glad that you recognized that not everyone has the capability or ambition to be a Master or FAI pilot.? For whatever reason.? I feel that?fact doesn't make their membership in NSRCA? an less valuable, nor does it make them a second-class member.? IMHO.? However, my feeling is that, if you want them to stick around, that they should be given (granted?) the same consideration as all other classes.? Not venting, or ranting; just stating a belief. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Excellent idea. Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they?re overwhelmed.? There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters.? They?re not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots.? They?re finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI.??? We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally.? We all know? the top dogs are the FAI finalists? but that shouldn?t diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? JLK ? From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers.? The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well.? They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time.? The finalists for the next day can be announced also. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1.????? Have a finals for advanced a.????? 8 finalists b.????? 3 rounds c.????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours f.?????? Do on 4th day g.????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2.????? Modify masters accordingly a.????? 3 round finals b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner d.????? 10 finalists e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3.????? Fai a.????? 3 rounds final b.????? F-11 flown 1 time c.????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner f.?????? 10 finalists g.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.37/2273 - Release Date: 07/30/09 18:09:00 E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12940 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12940 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12940 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 19:57:19 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:57:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> Message-ID: <175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but? I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It was done, It was called NPAC ? Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible?? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802? www.radiosouthrc.com ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 30 19:58:21 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 03:58:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <76072.60068.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <76072.60068.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3109B6FB-8904-48E4-891E-0D909CA7978B@cox.net> It's always good to treat talented Advanced class pilots well; they might be whipping your butt in the Master class next year. Amen on kudos to Melissa Hester. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 10:49 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > Cool. > > A huge thanks to Mellisa! She owns site 4!!!! Awesome for you to > have such a cool wife Mike! I can't wait for these guys to have a > finals day! They deserve it! > > I was glad to be able to go down and watch as they announced the > places down there this year. I think it's something we all should > at least try to do. I got to judge advanced and it was fun to be > able to see all the talented flyer's there! > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Mike Hester wrote: > > From: Mike Hester > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 8:25 PM > > I agree totally, and I'm all for it. > > FWIW Melissa said she'd be happy to score it, no problem. > > I really don't think it'd be that hard to do. Every intermediate > and advanced pilot I have asked said "hell yeah!" so I think it's > viable. > > -Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Chris Moon > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:26 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Bill: > > I agree 100% with you. Everyone pays the same entry fee and should > have a similar experience. The Intermediate or Advanced Champion > is no less excited than the Masters or FAI Champ I'm sure. Giving > them a comparable event is the right thing to do and I will > volunteer now to help judge their finals next year if they are > short of judges. I understand the logistical issues but we need to > have one event with 4 classes and not 2 events with the have and > have nots. > > Chris > > Bill Glaze wrote: >> >> >> Glad that you recognized that not everyone has the capability or >> ambition to be a Master or FAI pilot. For whatever reason. I >> feel that fact doesn't make their membership in NSRCA an less >> valuable, nor does it make them a second-class member. IMHO. >> However, my feeling is that, if you want them to stick around, >> that they should be given (granted?) the same consideration as all >> other classes. Not venting, or ranting; just stating a belief. >> Bill Glaze >> NSRCA 2388 >> AMA 2221 >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Atwood, Mark >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25 AM >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> Excellent idea. >> >> >> Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by >> assuming they?re overwhelmed. There are as many destination >> Intermediate pilots as there are Masters. They?re not all >> beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of >> accomplishment. >> >> >> Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots. >> They?re finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI. We >> need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally. We all >> know the top dogs are the FAI finalists? but that shouldn?t >> diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. >> >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM >> To: Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how >> they feel about a finals being added? >> JLK >> >> >> From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and >> coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, >> taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 >> days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers. >> >> >> The banquet can make that night sort of special for these >> intermediate pilots as well. They can give out the trophies and >> prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new >> pilots that can celebrate at this time. The finalists for the >> next day can be announced also. >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >> >> >> >> >> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >> To: 'Don Ramsey' >> Subject: nats format >> >> >> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >> >> >> They are: >> >> 1. Have a finals for advanced >> >> a. 8 finalists >> >> b. 3 rounds >> >> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >> volunteers) >> >> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >> >> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >> >> f. Do on 4th day >> >> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >> >> 2. Modify masters accordingly >> >> a. 3 round finals >> >> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >> >> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> d. 10 finalists >> >> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> 3. Fai >> >> a. 3 rounds final >> >> b. F-11 flown 1 time >> >> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >> >> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >> normalized score >> >> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >> >> f. 10 finalists >> >> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >> >> >> Rationale behind changes: >> >> >> Advanced >> >> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced >> class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats >> for them. This format is totally self contained with no >> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >> before the masters and fai is done. >> >> >> Masters >> >> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best >> in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument >> is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I >> propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the >> number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is >> cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the >> prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score >> to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number >> of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, >> etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 >> flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. >> >> >> FAI >> >> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event >> in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and >> the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over >> the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply >> at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 >> pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. >> Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried >> over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F >> pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend >> doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all >> the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by >> some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. >> >> >> To conclude: >> >> >> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >> >> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of >> some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be >> implemented. >> >> >> Respectfully >> >> Mike Harrison >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: >> 07/30/09 05:58:00 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.37/2273 - Release Date: >> 07/30/09 18:09:00 >> > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) > Database version: 6.12940 > http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) > Database version: 6.12940 > http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > > > > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) > Database version: 6.12940 > http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Thu Jul 30 20:20:43 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 04:20:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Huntsville BPA Contest Message-ID: Who's planning to attend the Ballistic Pattern Association contest in Huntsville, AL next weekend? I will be there with a new World Models Intruder 90R I test flew today. It has an OS 61 Hanno Special in it and when it gets on the pipe, what a beautiful sound! Unlike many new airplanes, this one balanced out perfectly and all my control throws were "spot on". Ron VP From verne at twmi.rr.com Thu Jul 30 21:05:38 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 05:05:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> Message-ID: <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> Welcome to the Nats. I've never been to one yet where there weren't some large discrepancies. I had one maneuver this year that was scored 5, 8, and 9. Don't dwell on it, it'll ruin your week, especially if you start wondering who was right. Verne -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hansen Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:51 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree Mark, after seeing the scoring spread in Intermediate and Advanced (many 2+ point differentials between judges) I would have to say that including intermediate pilots in the judging pool for Advanced certainly would not hurt. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:48 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Ron, Do we know why so few Intermediate pilots were asked to judge? I realize that they're the "least experienced" per say, but we do ask them to get certified, so it's a little bit of a slap if we make them do that and then pass on their help. Also, per my previous message, many of them are not beginners and actually have a fair amount of judging experience. With 3 judge panels, it's a perfect time for them to get more experience since you can sprinkle them in amongst more seasoned judges. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Thu Jul 30 23:30:42 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 07:30:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <726683F21BBD49639BC0E7EFDC052A41@telapoint.local> Message-ID: <226056.28972.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't think the weight (personnel) issue is a big deal. So we do it on Tuesday. FAI- Advanced weight opposite of when they fly, Masters-Intermediate weigh opposite of when they fly. We have one person weighing, one person measuring. Or maybe one person can do both. Should be easy to handle if everyone has to bring their plane, and batteries to the garage, get weighed, measured, get some type of weight sticker on your plane, and some type of weight band on your batteries. Now let me ask this. There is no rule that I am aware of that says I can't put a full tank of fuel in my electric right on windy days? Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Glen Watson wrote: From: Glen Watson Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 11:04 AM In the past AMA was successful in obtaining volunteers from the surrounding community, elderly, girl/boy scouts, etc.? Couldn't these types of volunteers perform admin functions of the weights and measure process?? This would also be a great time to get an equipment list survey filled out maybe even a contestant photos... ~Glen W 2009 no show who failed to contact Dave G -- please accept my apology -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long.? The? other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the? job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging? pool.? We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this? year.? Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers? came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part? > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that? > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day? >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job.??? >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day? >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup? >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding.? The board discussed a lot of these ideas? >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff? >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year.? Pretty much? >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that? >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of? >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if? >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole? >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be? >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and? >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly.? Random weight checks? >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be? >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share? >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have? >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that? >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by? >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and? >>> unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to? >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With? >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that? >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1.? ? ???Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a.? ? ???8 finalists >>> >>> b.? ? ? 3 rounds >>> >>> c.? ? ???Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified? >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d.? ? ? The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e.? ? ? 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f.? ? ? ? Do on 4th day >>> >>> g.? ? ???Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2.? ? ???Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a.? ? ???3 round finals >>> >>> b.? ? ? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c.? ? ???Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d.? ? ? 10 finalists >>> >>> e.? ? ? 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3.? ? ???Fai >>> >>> a.? ? ???3 rounds final >>> >>> b.? ? ? F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c.? ? ???Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d.? ? ? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000? >>> normalized score >>> >>> e.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f.? ? ? ? 10 finalists >>> >>> g.? ? ???30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the? >>> advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of? >>> the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no? >>> additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished? >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times? >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the? >>> best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only? >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.???The? >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I? >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that? >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.??? >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a? >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3? >>> days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to? >>> erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can? >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world? >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the? >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change? >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This? >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats? >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a? >>> 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be? >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The? >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3? >>> of 4 scores.???I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then? >>> the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see? >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world.? >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to? >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the? >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the? >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections? >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should? >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaqfly at prodigy.net Fri Jul 31 03:14:28 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:14:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <93A66979BE3147889EE1F56148D7E7AE@Sanity> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><003d01ca111f$5453d900$fcfb8b00$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E32@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><73F0F54B0E594545AACDD52BD42F63AC@glazecstp32xp> <93A66979BE3147889EE1F56148D7E7AE@Sanity> Message-ID: <191367.14424.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Melissa you are the best!!!Thanks for?all you do. ?Jim Quinn ________________________________ From: Mike Hester To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 11:25:19 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree totally, and I'm all for it. ? FWIW Melissa said she'd be happy to score it, no problem. ? I really don't think it'd be that hard to do. Every intermediate and advanced pilot I have asked said "hell yeah!" so I think it's viable. ? -Mike ----- Original Message ----- >From: Chris Moon >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:26 PM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > >Bill: > >I agree 100% with you.? Everyone pays the same entry fee and should have a similar experience.? The Intermediate or Advanced Champion is no less excited than the Masters or FAI Champ I'm sure.? Giving them a comparable event is the right thing to do and I will volunteer now to help judge their finals next year if they are short of judges.? I understand the logistical issues but we need to have one event with 4 classes and not 2 events with the have and have nots. > >Chris > >Bill Glaze wrote: >Glad that you recognized that not everyone has the capability or ambition to be a Master or FAI pilot.? For whatever reason.? I feel that?fact doesn't make their membership in NSRCA? an less valuable, nor does it make them a second-class member.? IMHO.? However, my feeling is that, if you want them to stick around, that they should be given (granted?) the same consideration as all other classes.? Not venting, or ranting; just stating a belief. >>Bill Glaze >>NSRCA 2388 >>AMA 2221 >>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Atwood, Mark >>>To: General pattern discussion >>>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:25 AM >>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>>Excellent idea. >>>Also, I think we do the intermediate pilots a disservice by assuming they?re overwhelmed.? There are as many destination Intermediate pilots as there are Masters.? They?re not all beginners and would appreciate some respect for their level of accomplishment. >>>Honestly I think we currently do the same for the Masters pilots.? They?re finals is almost an afterthought compared to FAI.??? We need to celebrate and respect each level somewhat equally.? We all know? the top dogs are the FAI finalists? but that shouldn?t diminish the accomplishment of the lower class victors. >>>From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker >>>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:18 AM >>>To: Discussion List >>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>>Why not let the NSRCA ask this year's Nats Intermediate pilots how they feel about a finals being added? >>>JLK >>>? >>> ________________________________ >>>From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net >>>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 09:09:18 -0500 >>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>>I agree with Earl that intermediate is in a big learning curve and coming to the nats ,competing at that level, learning the ropes, taking it all in, seeing all the other flyers, competing for 3 days,etc. should be more than enough for these newcomers.? >>>The banquet can make that night sort of special for these intermediate pilots as well.? They can give out the trophies and prizes for these pilots. There wonderfully are many young and new pilots that can celebrate at this time.? The finalists for the next day can be announced also. >>>From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:30 AM >>>To: 'General pattern discussion' >>>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>>From:michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>>Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>>To: 'Don Ramsey' >>>Subject: nats format >>>After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>>They are: >>>1.????? Have a finals for advanced >>>a.????? 8 finalists >>>b.????? 3 rounds >>>c.????? Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) >>>d.????? The site is open so it is not a space issue >>>e.????? 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>>f.?????? Do on 4th day >>>g.????? Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>h.????? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>>2.????? Modify masters accordingly >>>a.????? 3 round finals >>>b.????? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>c.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>d.????? 10 finalists >>>e.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>3.????? Fai >>>a.????? 3 rounds final >>>b.????? F-11 flown 1 time >>>c.????? Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>>d.????? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score >>>e.????? Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>f.?????? 10 finalists >>>g.????? 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>Rationale behind changes: >>>Advanced >>>This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done.? >>>Masters >>>Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped.? >>>FAI >>>The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event.? >>>To conclude: >>>I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals.? >>>There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. >>>Respectfully >>>Mike Harrison >>>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 ________________________________ _______________________________________________ >>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> ________________________________ >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> ________________________________ >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.37/2273 - Release Date: 07/30/09 18:09:00 >> >> > > > >E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) >Database version: 6.12940 >http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > ________________________________ _______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) >Database version: 6.12940 >http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ > E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.1.441) Database version: 6.12940 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor-antivirus/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 04:27:35 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:27:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <420511.51829.qm@web83201.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <291377.65029.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> How is the judging pool in Advanced self supporting if the intermediate flyers are done after day 3 and basically have no incentive to stay? I do not understand the logic? We need the intermediate guys for the judging pool. The way I see it you have to run 2 lines at site 4 on Friday to finish in a reasonable time. If a flyer refuses to judge the other class he will be passed up and the next guy in line will take his spot. I can't see any other way to assure enough bodies to judge. We do however have to allow for a break here and there to allow the judges some time to get there planes and minds ready to compete. Mike --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Charles Hochhalter wrote: > From: Charles Hochhalter > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 7:54 PM > Why cant the finalists from > advanced judge intermediate and vice versa. > ? > Seems it would work to me.. long day but worth it > cause they are in the FINALS. > ? > Chuck > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, michael s harrison > wrote: > > > From: michael s harrison > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 3:55 PM > > > > > > > > > The advanced, as I said in my initial > proposal is self supportive.? It does not require > recruiting additional judges per say.? It comes from > the intermediate pool and those that did not make the > finals. > Mike > ? > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Lachowski > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:40 AM > To: NSRCA Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats > format > ? > I have not read everyones comments to > thoroughly to digest this. > ? > But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the > Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other > classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years > Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges > district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI > panned out. > ? > Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? > They get equal exposure already. If?there is a finals > for Advanced?and Intermediate, it really only needs to > be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge?Advanced > this year and that is what I see from this experience. > Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th > being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between > numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day > 3. > ? > Also,?for this to really?work properly, there is > a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges > available. Not to mention more volunteers? or paid > individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to > weigh every plane, etc. > ? > What really messed up this years Nats was the fact > that?no shows did not bother to contact Dave early > enough or at all?for him to fix judging assignments. No > shows?are what really screw things up for the contest > management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create > an imbalance in?matrix seeding and sends contest > management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by > the no shows. We were short about 10? or so judges from > the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of > judges to make things work. This does not include the > Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This?all gets > amplified when there is a year with lower than usual > attendance which this year was. > ? > > > > From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > ? > ? > > > From: > michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > To: 'Don Ramsey' > Subject: nats format > ? > After considerable thought and reflection, I > would like to share my views of the nats and the classes > flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have > an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to > make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event > director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and > unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has > responded to our desires to make this the best national > event possible.? With that in mind, there are some > changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for > everyone and reduce the workload as well. > ? > They are: > 1.????? > Have a finals for advanced > a.????? > 8 finalists > b.????? > 3 rounds > c.????? > Judged by advanced or intermediate > judges(qualified volunteers) > d.????? > The site is open so it is not a space > issue > e.????? > 24 flights would take app 3 hours > f.?????? > Do on 4th day > g.????? > Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized > score > h.????? > Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner > 2.????? > Modify masters accordingly > a.????? > 3 round finals > b.????? > Count prelims as a 1000 normalized > score > c.????? > Count 3 of 4 for the winner > d.????? > 10 finalists > e.????? > 30 flights about 5.5 hours > 3.????? > Fai > a.????? > 3 rounds final > b.????? > F-11 flown 1 time > c.????? > Each unknown(1&2) flown once > d.????? > Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a > single 1000 normalized score > e.????? > Count 3 of 4 for the winner > f.?????? > 10 finalists > g.????? > 30 flights about 5.5 hours > ? > Rationale behind changes: > ? > Advanced > This would make for a very exciting and fun > event for the advanced class.? It would make the > 4th day a very real part of the nats for > them.? This format is totally self contained with no > additional personnel required.? It could be started and > finished before the masters and fai is done.? > ? > Masters > Masters is in a real sense an endurance > contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the > same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? > The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is > the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? > The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less > time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close > the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of > unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 > scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having > been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of > variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal > exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that > concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can > be dropped.? > ? > FAI > The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is > that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not > equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that > conditions can change substantially over the course of doing > the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the > nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights > with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized > score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to > be a score carried over into the finals event.? The > finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? > Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the > F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all > the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown > by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a > showcase event.? > ? > To conclude: > ? > I believe this is a win-win for > everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the > Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots > would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; > fewer personnel to do the finals.? > There is no perfect system.? I am sure > there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this > system has real merit and should be implemented. > ? > Respectfully > Mike Harrison > ? > > > > Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, > and share your photos. See > how. > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlachow at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 04:36:47 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:36:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. http://www.windowslive.com/Online/Hotmail/Campaign/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 04:40:57 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:40:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <226056.28972.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <650664.10895.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> ?Wow that's a great thought. My Fatboy Sickle flys better at a weight above 11 pounds so I can put fuel in it for balast? Thanks for the great idea. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: From: krishlan fitzsimmons Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 2:30 AM I don't think the weight (personnel) issue is a big deal. So we do it on Tuesday. FAI- Advanced weight opposite of when they fly, Masters-Intermediate weigh opposite of when they fly. We have one person weighing, one person measuring. Or maybe one person can do both. Should be easy to handle if everyone has to bring their plane, and batteries to the garage, get weighed, measured, get some type of weight sticker on your plane, and some type of weight band on your batteries. Now let me ask this. There is no rule that I am aware of that says I can't put a full tank of fuel in my electric right on windy days? Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Glen Watson wrote: From: Glen Watson Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 11:04 AM In the past AMA was successful in obtaining volunteers from the surrounding community, elderly, girl/boy scouts, etc.? Couldn't these types of volunteers perform admin functions of the weights and measure process?? This would also be a great time to get an equipment list survey filled out maybe even a contestant photos... ~Glen W 2009 no show who failed to contact Dave G -- please accept my apology -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long.? The? other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the? job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging? pool.? We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this? year.? Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers? came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part? > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that? > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day? >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job.??? >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day? >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup? >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding.? The board discussed a lot of these ideas? >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff? >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year.? Pretty much? >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that? >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of? >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if? >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole? >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be? >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and? >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly.? Random weight checks? >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be? >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share? >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown.? I believe we have? >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that? >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen.? That group is led by? >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and? >>> unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has responded to? >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible.? With? >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that? >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1.? ? ???Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a.? ? ???8 finalists >>> >>> b.? ? ? 3 rounds >>> >>> c.? ? ???Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified? >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d.? ? ? The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e.? ? ? 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f.? ? ? ? Do on 4th day >>> >>> g.? ? ???Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2.? ? ???Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a.? ? ???3 round finals >>> >>> b.? ? ? Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c.? ? ???Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d.? ? ? 10 finalists >>> >>> e.? ? ? 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3.? ? ???Fai >>> >>> a.? ? ???3 rounds final >>> >>> b.? ? ? F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c.? ? ???Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d.? ? ? Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000? >>> normalized score >>> >>> e.? ? ? Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f.? ? ? ? 10 finalists >>> >>> g.? ? ???30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the? >>> advanced class.? It would make the 4th day a very real part of? >>> the nats for them.? This format is totally self contained with no? >>> additional personnel required.? It could be started and finished? >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest.? How many times? >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the? >>> best in that class.? The present system is 10 times!? The only? >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.???The? >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time.? I? >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that? >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure.??? >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a? >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3? >>> days under a number of variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to? >>> erase that concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can? >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world? >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the? >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change? >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals.? This? >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats.? The semifinals at the nats? >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a? >>> 1000 normalized score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be? >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event.? The? >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? Count 3? >>> of 4 scores.???I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then? >>> the 2 unknowns.? I believe all the other pilots would love to see? >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world.? >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone.? We would add finals to? >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the? >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the? >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system.? I am sure there will be objections? >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should? >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 31 04:45:32 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:45:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E44@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net><002701ca111a$374dfc00$a5e9f400$@com><3337D5C8-F05C-4790-A343-F95DAED2AD29@cox.net><8134F00A-AC0E-47B1-BEF7-BBD8E490B520@swtexas.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E44@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Me too... Only thing I learn the day before is how to judge. Rather weigh and process than judge (gets confusing when I watch 40 Masters routines then try and fly mine...lol). Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > Agreed. This is no different than attending the pilots meeting. Check in, weigh in, etc. I would argue you could get one or two > people willing to facilitate and monitor it in exchange for their judging duties (I would be one! ) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:01 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part of > what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that bad. > Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day of >> checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we?ve been working on a list of stuff >>> that we?re going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you?ve outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We?re also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that c >>> ompete ? everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of check >>> -in ? each plane will be ?stickered? as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they?ll have the whole da >>> y on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be weighe >>> d and measured again before the check-in period ends (and pass) be >>> fore they?ll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks will also be >>> made throughout the event (random process to be determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my >>> views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been >>> very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work >>> and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the >>> event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced >>> class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for >>> them. This format is totally self contained with no additional >>> personnel required. It could be started and finished before the >>> masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best >>> in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument >>> is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I >>> propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the >>> number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is >>> cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the >>> prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score >>> to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number >>> of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, >>> etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 >>> flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event >>> in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and >>> the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over >>> the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn?t apply >>> at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 2 >>> 0 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Ther >>> efore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over >>> into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F patter >>> n and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing >>> the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the othe >>> r pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the >>> best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; >>> fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of >>> some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be >>> implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ed_alt at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 04:47:03 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:47:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? J The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Fri Jul 31 04:48:08 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:48:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <650664.10895.qm@web51007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <969792D365DB4E9E81E5BD2D32611E3C@jaysdesktop> I can see it now - a hybrid R/C plane... Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:41 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Wow that's a great thought. My Fatboy Sickle flys better at a weight above 11 pounds so I can put fuel in it for balast? Thanks for the great idea. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: From: krishlan fitzsimmons Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 2:30 AM I don't think the weight (personnel) issue is a big deal. So we do it on Tuesday. FAI- Advanced weight opposite of when they fly, Masters-Intermediate weigh opposite of when they fly. We have one person weighing, one person measuring. Or maybe one person can do both. Should be easy to handle if everyone has to bring their plane, and batteries to the garage, get weighed, measured, get some type of weight sticker on your plane, and some type of weight band on your batteries. Now let me ask this. There is no rule that I am aware of that says I can't put a full tank of fuel in my electric right on windy days? Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Glen Watson wrote: From: Glen Watson Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 11:04 AM In the past AMA was successful in obtaining volunteers from the surrounding community, elderly, girl/boy scouts, etc. Couldn't these types of volunteers perform admin functions of the weights and measure process? This would also be a great time to get an equipment list survey filled out maybe even a contestant photos... ~Glen W 2009 no show who failed to contact Dave G -- please accept my apology -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 12:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Fri Jul 31 04:54:16 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 12:54:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> Message-ID: <71D386D5DA9F4CF5ADFE0E19470F1DF7@UncleJasPC> I prefer to leave FAI alone and leave it as a 4 round finals. Besides, the rules state it to be flown this way. I do like the addition of the Advanced/Intermediate finals. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: michael s harrison To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 05:08:27 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:08:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <616043.54746.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Where do I sign up? The local pattern guys don't use the site from what I understand. If you go there on a weekday in the spring the place is deserted. I've been there and been the only plane in the air. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Ed Alt wrote: > From: Ed Alt > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 7:47 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wish to register a > complaint.? What form do I sign?? J? The > AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend > practice.? Why are my > dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have > access to a flying site > that I can?t drive to easily?? In other words, > who cares about the complaints of > the locals.? It?s OUR site and the vocal > minority have exclusive access for the > rest of the year.? Tough noogies. > > ? > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Joe > Lachowski > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM > > To: NSRCA Discussion List > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - > Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > > > ? > > It > really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is > also about other AMA > membership complaining about the site not being available > for their use. You > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had > about the AMA site being > tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been > shortened in length. > > > ? > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the > future. > > ? > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > > This > is really funny. They > want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure > they make money the > way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but? I > heard that the > members of the club were complaining that the nats takes > too much of their > time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't > the field built for a > localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid > for it. The ama will > lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they > see entry's > decline. > > Chris > > > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony > wrote: > > > From: Tony > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > > That is a possibility also.? > AMA is thinking about returning > the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be > done.? If all > events are together, HQ can put all costs into one > effort.? If they are > all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal > with due to the fact > that HQ can?t send a group of people to every > site. > ? > Tony Stillman, > President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box > 322 > Brunswick, GA ? > 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - > Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > ? > > > > > It was done, It was called > NPAC > > > ? > > > Tim > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > > wrote: > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: " General pattern discussion " > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their > own thing? IMAC and > NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a > site for the soaring > NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. > FF can do their own > thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so > on?? > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible?? The > problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF.? It may be very > difficult to actually find places that can handle this > group. > > ? > ? > > > Tony Stillman, > President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box > 322 > Brunswick, GA ? > 31525 > ?1-800-962-7802? > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ? > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Windows > Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your > favorite sports pics. Check it out. > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 05:44:13 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 13:44:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2D4BBA699363494CB1C029DE4C171E6B@Tony> This just show me how much misinformation is out there. I am on the AMA Executive Council. There has been a concern about the NATS for a long time. The AMA site is there for major events, not local events. The NATS, IRCHA, XFC and others are the type of events that showcase modeling and are what we want to use the site for. Many members that attend the NATS have expressed a desire to move the NATS around. The council is considering this, and is looking into how it could be done. Many want to see the NATS as a group event like it was 20 years ago. That may not be possible as finding a site with everything you need is very difficult in today's world. If the NATS does not move and more major events are added, some local events may not be held at the site any longer due to time restraints. If a weekend is open, anyone can schedule something there. A local club event or even something like the D4-D5 shootout is welcome, as long as dates are available. AMA looses money on the NATS. That is not really a big issue, as competition is part of the mission of AMA. However, HQ does get a lot of flack from non-competitors about them subsidizing competition with their dues. Lower number recently in NATS total attendance is another concern. Pattern is one of the bright spots at the NATS, but other events are not doing nearly as well as pattern. Awarding someone a National Champion label is hard to feel good about when there were only 3 people competing.. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 06:04:38 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:04:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <2D4BBA699363494CB1C029DE4C171E6B@Tony> Message-ID: <902280.53844.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I think the reason the AMA losses money on the Nats is because it runs too many events that have very poor participation. I suggest that everyone look at the number of participants in a lot of obscure and obsoltete events These numbers can usually be found in the Nats news reports. AMA losses money on the Nats? Then consider a number of participants that must be met in each event for it to remain an event in the next years Nats. I view the AMA headquarters as the Mecca of Model Airplane flying. It's a really great place that is being used for a lot of important events. I don't see a lot broken with the way things are being done there. You can not please all of the people all of the time. I think competition is vitally important to the RC community as a whole and it deserves a lot of attention. AMA is doing a very good job and I'd hate to see it tore apart. My opinion, thanks for letting me express it. Mike Mueller --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:44 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just > show me how much misinformation > is out there.? I am on the AMA Executive > Council.? There has been a > concern about the NATS for a long time.? The AMA site > is there for major > events, not local events.? The NATS, IRCHA, XFC and > others are the type of > events that showcase modeling and are what we want to use > the site for.? > Many members that attend the NATS have expressed a desire > to move the NATS > around.? The council is considering this, and is > looking into how it could > be done.? Many want to see the NATS as a group event > like it was 20 years > ago.? That may not be possible as finding a site with > everything you need > is very difficult in today?s world.? > > > > ? > > If the NATS > does not move and more major > events are added, some local events may not be held at the > site any longer due > to time restraints.? If a weekend is open, anyone can > schedule something > there.? A local club event or even something like the > D4-D5 shootout is > welcome, as long as dates are available. > > > ? > > AMA looses > money on the NATS.? That > is not really a big issue, as competition is part of the > mission of AMA.? > However, HQ does get a lot of flack from non-competitors > about them subsidizing > competition with their dues.? Lower number recently in > NATS total > attendance is another concern.? Pattern is one of the > bright spots at the > NATS, but other events are not doing nearly as well as > pattern.? Awarding > someone a National Champion label is hard to feel good > about when there were > only 3 people competing?.? > > > ? > > > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 Altama > Connector, > Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski > > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 8:36 > AM > > To: NSRCA > Discussion List > > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > ? > > It really > isn't just about cutting costs either. It is > also about other AMA membership complaining about the site > not being available > for their use. You would not believe the number of > complaints AMA has had about > the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at > the site has been > shortened in length. > > ? > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the > future. > > ? > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, > 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 > -0700 > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > > This is really funny. > They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am > sure they make > money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but? I heard > that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats takes too much of > their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't the field built for > a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all > paid for it. The ama will > lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they > see entry's > decline. > > Chris > > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Tony > wrote: > > > From: Tony > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > To: "' General pattern discussion '" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > > > That is a > possibility also.? AMA is > thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events > NATS like used to be > done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all > costs into one > effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would > have more costs to > deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a > group of people to every > site. > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 Altama > Connector, > Box 322 > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > > Sent: > Thursday, July 30, 2009 > 3:39 PM > > To: General > pattern discussion > > Subject: > Re: [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > ? > > > > > It was done, It was called > NPAC > > > ? > > > Tim > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Bill's Email > wrote: > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: " General pattern discussion > " > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do > their own thing? IMAC > and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find > a site for the > soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and > so on. FF can do > their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > together and so on?? > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible?? > The problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and > will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF.? It may be > very difficult to actually find places that can handle > this group. > > ? > > ? > > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 > Altama Connector, > Box 322 > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > ?1-800-962-7802? > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ? > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Windows > Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment > with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 06:21:15 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:21:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <2D4BBA699363494CB1C029DE4C171E6B@Tony> Message-ID: <346441.78027.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The nats fee could double IMO. It's the smallest part of cost for my nats trip. I hate to see the ama lose money on the deal.? Heck, I doubled mine this year anyway to help out, lol.. Yeah, that's why I did it. Chris ? ? ? --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 6:44 AM This just show me how much misinformation is out there.? I am on the AMA Executive Council.? There has been a concern about the NATS for a long time.? The AMA site is there for major events, not local events.? The NATS, IRCHA, XFC and others are the type of events that showcase modeling and are what we want to use the site for.? Many members that attend the NATS have expressed a desire to move the NATS around.? The council is considering this, and is looking into how it could be done.? Many want to see the NATS as a group event like it was 20 years ago.? That may not be possible as finding a site with everything you need is very difficult in today?s world.? ? If the NATS does not move and more major events are added, some local events may not be held at the site any longer due to time restraints.? If a weekend is open, anyone can schedule something there.? A local club event or even something like the D4-D5 shootout is welcome, as long as dates are available. ? AMA looses money on the NATS.? That is not really a big issue, as competition is part of the mission of AMA.? However, HQ does get a lot of flack from non-competitors about them subsidizing competition with their dues.? Lower number recently in NATS total attendance is another concern.? Pattern is one of the bright spots at the NATS, but other events are not doing nearly as well as pattern.? Awarding someone a National Champion label is hard to feel good about when there were only 3 people competing?.? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. ? If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but? I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "' General pattern discussion '" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It was done, It was called NPAC ? Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible?? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802? www.radiosouthrc.com ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Fri Jul 31 06:41:26 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:41:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2D4BBA699363494CB1C029DE4C171E6B@Tony> Message-ID: <6EB82172547D4AF3853B0E8A4354BF9C@MARK> Tony, Thank you for contributing and your work. It is nice to have an AMA exec. here on the list to help give us all better perspective. -mark, VP D6 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 08:44 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This just show me how much misinformation is out there. I am on the AMA Executive Council. There has been a concern about the NATS for a long time. The AMA site is there for major events, not local events. The NATS, IRCHA, XFC and others are the type of events that showcase modeling and are what we want to use the site for. Many members that attend the NATS have expressed a desire to move the NATS around. The council is considering this, and is looking into how it could be done. Many want to see the NATS as a group event like it was 20 years ago. That may not be possible as finding a site with everything you need is very difficult in today's world. If the NATS does not move and more major events are added, some local events may not be held at the site any longer due to time restraints. If a weekend is open, anyone can schedule something there. A local club event or even something like the D4-D5 shootout is welcome, as long as dates are available. AMA looses money on the NATS. That is not really a big issue, as competition is part of the mission of AMA. However, HQ does get a lot of flack from non-competitors about them subsidizing competition with their dues. Lower number recently in NATS total attendance is another concern. Pattern is one of the bright spots at the NATS, but other events are not doing nearly as well as pattern. Awarding someone a National Champion label is hard to feel good about when there were only 3 people competing.. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows LiveT Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Jul 31 06:43:30 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:43:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Message-ID: <852793.10828.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I?had to cancel at the last minute so I?didn't even go and?I let them keep my $$$. So there! LOL ? OK so if they lose money on the NATs where people pay entry fees, how does it make sense to allot less time for the NATs so that the site is open to sport pilots who don't pay an entry fee? ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: From: krishlan fitzsimmons Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 10:21 AM The nats fee could double IMO. It's the smallest part of cost for my nats trip. I hate to see the ama lose money on the deal.? Heck, I doubled mine this year anyway to help out, lol.. Yeah, that's why I did it. Chris ? ? ? --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 6:44 AM This just show me how much misinformation is out there.? I am on the AMA Executive Council.? There has been a concern about the NATS for a long time.? The AMA site is there for major events, not local events.? The NATS, IRCHA, XFC and others are the type of events that showcase modeling and are what we want to use the site for.? Many members that attend the NATS have expressed a desire to move the NATS around.? The council is considering this, and is looking into how it could be done.? Many want to see the NATS as a group event like it was 20 years ago.? That may not be possible as finding a site with everything you need is very difficult in today?s world.? ? If the NATS does not move and more major events are added, some local events may not be held at the site any longer due to time restraints.? If a weekend is open, anyone can schedule something there.? A local club event or even something like the D4-D5 shootout is welcome, as long as dates are available. ? AMA looses money on the NATS.? That is not really a big issue, as competition is part of the mission of AMA.? However, HQ does get a lot of flack from non-competitors about them subsidizing competition with their dues.? Lower number recently in NATS total attendance is another concern.? Pattern is one of the bright spots at the NATS, but other events are not doing nearly as well as pattern.? Awarding someone a National Champion label is hard to feel good about when there were only 3 people competing?.? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. ? If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but? I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "' General pattern discussion '" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It was done, It was called NPAC ? Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible?? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802? www.radiosouthrc.com ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DaveL322 at comcast.net Fri Jul 31 06:52:15 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:52:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <71D386D5DA9F4CF5ADFE0E19470F1DF7@UncleJasPC> References: <003301ca1111$67b28770$37179650$@net> <71D386D5DA9F4CF5ADFE0E19470F1DF7@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: Agree for FAI - part of the reason the F-09 is flown for the semi's and the 4 rounds are flown for the finals is because this is the system that will best prepare the FAI pilots for the WC. The level at which the F is flown by the top pilots often warrants a closer look for the top 8 (vs the top 20 in the semi finals). We all pay the same entry fee, so why is it some get to fly more than others? Valid question, not unlike why don't Intermediate, Sportsman, and Advanced get as much airtime per flight as Masters. I'd point out that in most competitive events, there are classes which are graded in experience (skill) required, the performance level/requirements of the equipment, and often the time needed to complete the event. It only makes sense that sequences get gradually more difficult, longer, and require higher performance equipment. F3A, being driven by the WC, has understandably reduced the sequence length due to time considerations at the WC. The structure of the flying at the NATs is to pick the best, and it is not the same for all classes because of the differences in the classes (one size does not fit all). Why is there a finals (and semi finals) for F3A at the US NATs? Several reasons - - With the often large number of pilots, several unequal conditions do or may exist - weather variations, site variations, and the matrix system may be used (which does not provide equal exposure amongst competing pilots). So the goal of the prelims is too make sure that those that have a reasonable shot at winning are included in the group that makes it out of the prelims (the actual placing of the pilots leaving the prelims is not the primary goal of the prelims) into the semifinals where the unequal conditions are eliminated/reduced (possible because of the smaller number of pilots in the semifinals). - the semifinals are used to ensure that all finalists are capable of flying the F sequence (this was added several years ago, based on experience, and as voted on by the FAI pilots - many of who realized adding the semifinals would reduce their personal flying time). - the finals are to pick the best of the best - the skill level in F3A at the US NATs is high enough that it is extremely difficult to distinguish the top pilots on the P schedule alone. Why is there a finals for Masters at the US NATs? - With the often large number of pilots, several unequal conditions do or may exist - weather variations, site variations, and the matrix system may be used (which does not provide equal exposure amongst competing pilots). So the goal of the prelims is too make sure that those that have a reasonable shot at winning are included in the group that makes it out of the prelims. - In the finals, all pilots fly within a small time window, and the chances of unequal conditions are greatly reduced, and it is much easier for a judge to accurately judge and rank 8 pilots. - The finals in Masters is often very close, with the winners capable of flying F3A P at a similar level. I believe Masters pilots are flying Masters, in part, because they don't want to be burdened by flying 2 schedules (F3A P and F) and unknowns. So, the Masters finals ends up being very close some years. - No scores from the prelims should be carried forward to the finals. The matrix system does not have equal exposure and does impart a degree of bias to the results. This bias is best left to the prelims, and not brought forward to the finals. Why is there not a finals in Intermediate and Advanced? - Because the first 6 rounds of flying occur within a relatively small window, at the same site, so the probability of unequal conditions (poor weather in part of a round) are greatly reduced. - the smaller number of flyers and reduced judging time increases the accuracy of pilot ranking for the group as a whole. - The majority of years, the depth of flying is not enough to warrant a finals for a "closer" look, and additional rounds are not going to change the result (unlike Masters and F3A where placings pretty routinely change). The added detail of the finals for Masters and semifinals/finals for F3A has everything to do with picking the best pilot out of larger groups with more pilot depth - in essence, a closer look is needed. It has nothing to do with screwing the Intermediate and Advanced pilots out of flying time, prestige, or glory. It has nothing to do with feeding the ego of the Masters or F3A pilots. So far as the banquet and awards ceremony (and announcement of semi finalists and finalists). It would be nice to have a large audience for the presentation of trophies/awards to all pilots for all classes, and for the announcement of semi finalists and finalists - BUT - the logistics just don't support that. In the years I've attended the NATs, I've gotten my award at packed banquets, and in the middle of the field with a handful of people left. My suggestion would be hold the banquet when the largest turnout will occur, and let the awards/announcements fall where they may. Bias the banquet to give the crowds and glory to the Intermediate and Advanced pilots - more people have a better shot at getting a NATs award "on the way up" than they do in Masters or F3A (which are never attained by some). Regards, Dave Lockhart _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:54 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I prefer to leave FAI alone and leave it as a 4 round finals. Besides, the rules state it to be flown this way. I do like the addition of the Advanced/Intermediate finals. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: michael s harrison To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Jul 31 07:19:41 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:19:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Message-ID: <802595.95022.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Go?from 72 to SS? Come on Joe,?I can't handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog cell phone (the new digital one drops calls all the time - never happened with my old phone) and now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter (5-speed Hog). Now you want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? This is just too much! LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Joe Lachowski wrote: From: Joe Lachowski Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "NSRCA Discussion List" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM #yiv1914362730 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1914362730 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. ? If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but? I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 #EC_yiv1654998076 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 #EC_yiv1654998076 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1872889452 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 #EC_yiv1872889452 p.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 li.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 a:link, #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 a:visited, #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 tt {font-family:'Courier New';} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_emailstyle1801 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_emailstyle221 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_EmailStyle23 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass EC__filtered #EC_yiv1872889452 {} #yiv1914362730 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 div.EC_Section1 {} That is a possibility also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It was done, It was called NPAC ? Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible?? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802? www.radiosouthrc.com ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 07:36:12 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:36:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <49607.92003.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does SS mean Solid State? I just put new tubes in my Knight Kit transmitter !!!! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Joe Lachowski To: NSRCA Discussion List Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36:13 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: >From: Tony >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? >To: "'General pattern discussion'" >Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > > > >That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. > >Tony Stillman, President >Radio South, Inc. >139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >Brunswick, GA 31525 >1-800-962-7802 >www.radiosouthrc.com > ________________________________ >From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor >Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > >It was done, It was called NPAC > >Tim > >--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > >>From: Bill's Email >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? >>To: " General pattern discussion " >>Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM >>Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? >> >> >>Tony wrote: >>Matt: >>Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. >> >> >>Tony Stillman, President >>Radio South, Inc. >139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >Brunswick, GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 >www.radiosouthrc.com > ________________________________ > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 08:02:58 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:02:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <902280.53844.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <2D4BBA699363494CB1C029DE4C171E6B@Tony> <902280.53844.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <36C4227D3A5F498692AE3B32E46DAD79@Tony> Mike: You are correct in most all areas. Some events don't really cost anything else to run, as they are run in a 30 minute time frame during a day slot for a larger event. FF does this all the time. They are important to host, especially for the SIG, as it brings in more money to the SIG (special interest group) that is hosting the event. They get some of the event money as well as some goes to AMA for staff work. The equipment used, and all the time put out by staffers (many AMA staff members work 6 to 7 days a week during the NATS and cannot take vacation during this time) Extra part-time people are hired by HQ to handle the work load and take up the slack left by staffers that are out working the NATS. Their daily work has to be done as well... When you take in consideration the hours of labor that is billed to NATS, we are in a negative. Like I said, that is not a terrible thing, just don't want to get that number too high. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:05 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I think the reason the AMA losses money on the Nats is because it runs too many events that have very poor participation. I suggest that everyone look at the number of participants in a lot of obscure and obsoltete events These numbers can usually be found in the Nats news reports. AMA losses money on the Nats? Then consider a number of participants that must be met in each event for it to remain an event in the next years Nats. I view the AMA headquarters as the Mecca of Model Airplane flying. It's a really great place that is being used for a lot of important events. I don't see a lot broken with the way things are being done there. You can not please all of the people all of the time. I think competition is vitally important to the RC community as a whole and it deserves a lot of attention. AMA is doing a very good job and I'd hate to see it tore apart. My opinion, thanks for letting me express it. Mike Mueller --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:44 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just > show me how much misinformation > is out there.? I am on the AMA Executive > Council.? There has been a > concern about the NATS for a long time.? The AMA site > is there for major > events, not local events.? The NATS, IRCHA, XFC and > others are the type of > events that showcase modeling and are what we want to use > the site for.? > Many members that attend the NATS have expressed a desire > to move the NATS > around.? The council is considering this, and is > looking into how it could > be done.? Many want to see the NATS as a group event > like it was 20 years > ago.? That may not be possible as finding a site with > everything you need > is very difficult in today?s world.? > > > > ? > > If the NATS > does not move and more major > events are added, some local events may not be held at the > site any longer due > to time restraints.? If a weekend is open, anyone can > schedule something > there.? A local club event or even something like the > D4-D5 shootout is > welcome, as long as dates are available. > > > ? > > AMA looses > money on the NATS.? That > is not really a big issue, as competition is part of the > mission of AMA.? > However, HQ does get a lot of flack from non-competitors > about them subsidizing > competition with their dues.? Lower number recently in > NATS total > attendance is another concern.? Pattern is one of the > bright spots at the > NATS, but other events are not doing nearly as well as > pattern.? Awarding > someone a National Champion label is hard to feel good > about when there were > only 3 people competing .? > > > ? > > > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 Altama > Connector, > Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski > > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 8:36 > AM > > To: NSRCA > Discussion List > > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > ? > > It really > isn't just about cutting costs either. It is > also about other AMA membership complaining about the site > not being available > for their use. You would not believe the number of > complaints AMA has had about > the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at > the site has been > shortened in length. > > ? > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the > future. > > ? > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, > 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 > -0700 > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > > This is really funny. > They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am > sure they make > money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but? I heard > that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats takes too much of > their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't the field built for > a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all > paid for it. The ama will > lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they > see entry's > decline. > > Chris > > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Tony > wrote: > > > From: Tony > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > To: "' General pattern discussion '" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > > > That is a > possibility also.? AMA is > thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events > NATS like used to be > done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all > costs into one > effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would > have more costs to > deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a > group of people to every > site. > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 Altama > Connector, > Box 322 > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > > Sent: > Thursday, July 30, 2009 > 3:39 PM > > To: General > pattern discussion > > Subject: > Re: [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > ? > > > > > It was done, It was called > NPAC > > > ? > > > Tim > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Bill's Email > wrote: > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: " General pattern discussion > " > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do > their own thing? IMAC > and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find > a site for the > soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and > so on. FF can do > their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > together and so on?? > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible ? > The problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and > will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF.? It may be > very difficult to actually find places that can handle > this group. > > ? > > ? > > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 > Altama Connector, > Box 322 > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > ?1-800-962-7802? > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ? > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Windows > Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment > with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Jul 31 08:05:15 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:05:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Message-ID: <875515.35244.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No, worse than that. Actually that transmitter that you have probably IS somewhat "Spread Spectrum".?I bet the frequency?drifts whenever the temperature changes, or the wind blows, or the moon is full... LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:36 AM Does SS mean Solid State?? I just put new tubes in my Knight Kit transmitter !!!! ?Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From: Joe Lachowski To: NSRCA Discussion List Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36:13 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? #yiv425777499 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv425777499 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. ? If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but? I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 #EC_yiv1654998076 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 #EC_yiv1654998076 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1654998076 {} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 EC__filtered #EC_yiv1872889452 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 #EC_yiv1872889452 p.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 li.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 a:link, #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 a:visited, #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 pre {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:'Courier New';} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 tt {font-family:'Courier New';} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_emailstyle1801 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_emailstyle221 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 span.EC_EmailStyle23 {font-family:Arial;color:navy;} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass EC__filtered #EC_yiv1872889452 {} #yiv425777499 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv1872889452 div.EC_Section1 {} That is a possibility also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It was done, It was called NPAC ? Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible?? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802? www.radiosouthrc.com ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 08:08:24 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:08:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <852793.10828.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <852793.10828.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <71959F56D6E54B59B2D752539F79B866@Tony> Sport fliers don't require HQ to set up turn-around poles and provide equipment for the contest. They don't require staff to check people in and verify them. They don't have to pay to have a CD and other help flown in and put up for a week to 10 days and get a rental car.. Do you really need me to say more? Sport fliers have paid dues just like any other AMA member, and when they drive up from Colorado, they want to fly at the AMA National site. Do you blame them? I think they have a right to do that. When events are scheduled, the events come first, but they can always wait around and fly when the event is over for the day. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:43 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I had to cancel at the last minute so I didn't even go and I let them keep my $$$. So there! LOL OK so if they lose money on the NATs where people pay entry fees, how does it make sense to allot less time for the NATs so that the site is open to sport pilots who don't pay an entry fee? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: From: krishlan fitzsimmons Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 10:21 AM The nats fee could double IMO. It's the smallest part of cost for my nats trip. I hate to see the ama lose money on the deal. Heck, I doubled mine this year anyway to help out, lol.. Yeah, that's why I did it. Chris --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 6:44 AM This just show me how much misinformation is out there. I am on the AMA Executive Council. There has been a concern about the NATS for a long time. The AMA site is there for major events, not local events. The NATS, IRCHA, XFC and others are the type of events that showcase modeling and are what we want to use the site for. Many members that attend the NATS have expressed a desire to move the NATS around. The council is considering this, and is looking into how it could be done. Many want to see the NATS as a group event like it was 20 years ago. That may not be possible as finding a site with everything you need is very difficult in today's world. If the NATS does not move and more major events are added, some local events may not be held at the site any longer due to time restraints. If a weekend is open, anyone can schedule something there. A local club event or even something like the D4-D5 shootout is welcome, as long as dates are available. AMA looses money on the NATS. That is not really a big issue, as competition is part of the mission of AMA. However, HQ does get a lot of flack from non-competitors about them subsidizing competition with their dues. Lower number recently in NATS total attendance is another concern. Pattern is one of the bright spots at the NATS, but other events are not doing nearly as well as pattern. Awarding someone a National Champion label is hard to feel good about when there were only 3 people competing.. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "' General pattern discussion '" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 08:09:37 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:09:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <802595.95022.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <802595.95022.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <599673A1A9E84CCEB645D1833F14677F@Tony> There is nothing in the works to commit the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:20 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Go from 72 to SS? Come on Joe, I can't handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog cell phone (the new digital one drops calls all the time - never happened with my old phone) and now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter (5-speed Hog). Now you want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? This is just too much! LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Joe Lachowski wrote: From: Joe Lachowski Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "NSRCA Discussion List" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 08:16:34 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:16:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <599673A1A9E84CCEB645D1833F14677F@Tony> Message-ID: <542392.76584.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I'm still hanging on to 72 for a bunch of reasons and I can tell you that using 72 at the national site is a bad idea. 4 sites and you don't really ever feel safe. I will have 2.4 next time I fly there. 72 is almost like having your own frequency because so many have gone to 2.4. Having 72 this year at the Nats was a bit of an embarrasment for me. It's just that my radio works so well that I hate to change anything. 9 years old and I didn't want to upgrade it but I still love it and I like red shirts too. I guess I got a good one. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:09 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is > nothing in the works to commit > the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only.? > > > > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 Altama > Connector, > Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 11:20 > AM > > To: General > pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > ? > > > > > > Go?from 72 to SS? Come on > Joe,?I can't > handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog > cell phone (the new > digital one drops calls all the time - never happened > with my old phone) and > now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter > (5-speed Hog). Now you > want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? > This is just too > much! LOL > > > ? > > > John Pavlick > > > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, > Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > From: Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > To: "NSRCA Discussion List" > > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM > It really isn't just about > cutting costs either. It > is also about other AMA membership complaining about the > site not being > available for their use. You would not believe the number > of complaints AMA > has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the > overall Nats at the > site has been shortened in length. > > ? > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the > future. > > ? > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 > 20:57:16 -0700 > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > This is really funny. > They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I > am sure they make > money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but? I heard > that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats takes too much > of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't the field built > for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid for it. The ama > will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait > till they see entry's > decline. > > Chris > > > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Tony > wrote: > > > From: Tony > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: "' General pattern discussion '" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 > PM > > > That > is a possibility > also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to > a 2 week all-events > NATS like used to be done.? If all events are > together, HQ can put all > costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, > Each group would > have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ > can?t send a group of > people to every site. > > ? > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 > Altama Connector, > Box 322 > Brunswick, > GA ? 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > > Sent: > Thursday, July 30, 2009 > 3:39 PM > > To: > General > pattern discussion > > Subject: > Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > ? > > > > > It was done, It was called > NPAC > > > ? > > > Tim > > > > --- On Thu, > 7/30/09, Bill's Email > wrote: > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: " General pattern discussion > " > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > PM > > > Why not allow the SIGS to do > their own thing? > IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF > can find a site for > the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for > them and so on. FF can > do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > together and so on?? > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > > Matt: > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible?? The > problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF.? It may be very > difficult to actually find places that can handle > this group. > > ? > > ? > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 > Altama > Connector, Box > 322 > Brunswick, GA > ? > 31525 > ?1-800-962-7802? > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > ? > > > > Windows Live? > Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with > your favorite sports pics. Check it out. > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 08:25:23 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:25:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <542392.76584.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <542392.76584.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <763348.76233.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm with you on this one. I had a new problem this year, no one else was on my frequency so I did not have to impound my transmitter. But twice they closed down shop at the site before I was done so I had to drive the frequency pin back to the farmhouse. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I'm still hanging on to 72 for a bunch of reasons and I can tell you that using 72 at the national site is a bad idea. 4 sites and you don't really ever feel safe. I will have 2.4 next time I fly there. 72 is almost like having your own frequency because so many have gone to 2.4. Having 72 this year at the Nats was a bit of an embarrasment for me. It's just that my radio works so well that I hate to change anything. 9 years old and I didn't want to upgrade it but I still love it and I like red shirts too. I guess I got a good one. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:09 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is > nothing in the works to commit > the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only. > > > > > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 Altama > Connector, > Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 11:20 > AM > > To: General > pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > > > > > Go from 72 to SS? Come on > Joe, I can't > handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog > cell phone (the new > digital one drops calls all the time - never happened > with my old phone) and > now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter > (5-speed Hog). Now you > want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? > This is just too > much! LOL > > > > > > John Pavlick > > > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, > Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > From: Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > To: "NSRCA Discussion List" > > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM > It really isn't just about > cutting costs either. It > is also about other AMA membership complaining about the > site not being > available for their use. You would not believe the number > of complaints AMA > has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the > overall Nats at the > site has been shortened in length. > > > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the > future. > > > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 > 20:57:16 -0700 > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > This is really funny. > They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I > am sure they make > money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but I heard > that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats takes too much > of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't the field built > for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid for it. The ama > will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait > till they see entry's > decline. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Tony > wrote: > > > From: Tony > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: "' General pattern discussion '" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 > PM > > > That > is a possibility > also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to > a 2 week all-events > NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ can put all > costs into one effort. If they are all split up, > Each group would > have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ > can?t send a group of > people to every site. > > > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 > Altama Connector, > Box 322 > Brunswick, > GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > > Sent: > Thursday, July 30, 2009 > 3:39 PM > > To: > General > pattern discussion > > Subject: > Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > > > It was done, It was called > NPAC > > > > > > Tim > > > > --- On Thu, > 7/30/09, Bill's Email > wrote: > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: " General pattern discussion > " > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > PM > > > Why not allow the SIGS to do > their own thing? > IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF > can find a site for > the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for > them and so on. FF can > do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > together and so on?? > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > > Matt: > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible? The > problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF. It may be very > difficult to actually find places that can handle > this group. > > > > > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 > Altama > Connector, Box > 322 > Brunswick, GA > > 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > Windows Live? > Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with > your favorite sports pics. Check it out. > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Jul 31 08:29:54 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:29:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Message-ID: <444452.26676.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Embarrassed by flying on 72? Huh? Try riding an old ?Harley with a drum brake on the front wheel (and a shift?pedal?on the right side) into a bar with a bunch of rice burners parked out front! LOL ? John Pavlick? --- On Fri, 7/31/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:16 PM I'm still hanging on to 72 for a bunch of reasons and I can tell you that using 72 at the national site is a bad idea. 4 sites and you don't really ever feel safe. I will have 2.4 next time I fly there. 72 is almost like having your own frequency because so many have gone to 2.4. Having 72 this year at the Nats was a bit of an embarrasment for me. It's just that my radio works so well that I hate to change anything. 9 years old and I didn't want to upgrade it but I still love it and I like red shirts too. I guess I got a good one. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:09 AM > > > >? >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > > > > > > > >? > > > > There is > nothing in the works to commit > the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only.? >? > > > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 Altama > Connector, >? Box 322 > > Brunswick, >? GA ? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 11:20 > AM > > To: General >? pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > >? ? > > >? >??? >??? >???Go?from 72 to SS? Come on > Joe,?I can't >???handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog > cell phone (the new >???digital one drops calls all the time - never happened > with my old phone) and >???now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter > (5-speed Hog). Now you >???want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? > This is just too >???much! LOL >??? >??? >???? >??? >??? >???John Pavlick > >??? > >???--- On Fri, 7/31/09, > Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > >???wrote: >??? >??? > >???From: Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > >???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > >???To: "NSRCA Discussion List" >??? > >???Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM >???It really isn't just about > cutting costs either. It >???is also about other AMA membership complaining about the > site not being >???available for their use. You would not believe the number > of complaints AMA >???has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the > overall Nats at the >???site has been shortened in length. > >???? > >???If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard >???rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the >???future. > >???? >??? >??? >??? >???Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 >???20:57:16 -0700 > >???From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > >???To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? >??? >? ? >? ??? >? ???This is really funny. >? ???They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I > am sure they make >? ???money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but? I heard >? ???that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats takes too much >? ???of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't the field built >? ???for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid for it. The ama >? ???will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait > till they see entry's >? ???decline.? >? ??? >? ???Chris >? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? >? ??? > >? ??? > >? ???--- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Tony >? ???wrote: >? ??? > >? ???From: Tony > >? ???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > >? ???To: "' General pattern discussion '" >? ??? > >? ???Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 > PM >? ??? >? ??? >? ???That > is a possibility >? ???also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to > a 2 week all-events >? ???NATS like used to be done.? If all events are > together, HQ can put all >? ???costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, > Each group would >? ???have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ > can?t send a group of >? ???people to every site. >? ??? >? ???? > >? ??? >? ???Tony > Stillman, >? ???President >? ???Radio > South, Inc. >? ???139 > Altama Connector, >? ???Box 322 >? ???Brunswick, >? GA ? 31525 >? ???1-800-962-7802 > >? ???www.radiosouthrc.com > >? ??? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???From: >? ???nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >? ???[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > >? ???Sent: > Thursday, July 30, 2009 >? ???3:39 PM > >? ???To: > General >? ? ? pattern discussion > >? ???Subject: > Re: >? ???[NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? >? ???? >? ??? >? ? ? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???It was done, It was called > NPAC >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???Tim > >? ? ??? > >? ? ???--- On Thu, > 7/30/09, Bill's Email >? ? ???wrote: >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? > >? ? ???From: Bill's Email > >? ? ???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > >? ? ???To: " General pattern discussion >? ? ???" > >? ? ???Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > PM >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???Why not allow the SIGS to do > their own thing? >? ? ???IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF > can find a site for >? ? ???the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for > them and so on. FF can >? ? ???do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > together and so on?? > >? ? ??? > >? ? ??? > >? ? ???Tony wrote:? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???Matt: > >? ? ???Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible?? The >? ? ???problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >? ? ???require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF.? It may be very >? ? ???difficult to actually find places that can handle > this group. >? ? ??? >? ? ???? > >? ? ???? > >? ? ??? >? ? ???Tony > Stillman, >? ? ???President >? ? ??? >? ? ???Radio > South, Inc. >? ? ???139 > Altama >? ? ???Connector, Box >? ? ? ? 322 >? ? ???Brunswick, GA > ? >? 31525 >? ? ????1-800-962-7802? > >? ? ???www.radiosouthrc.com > >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???? >? ? ??? > >? ? ???-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >? ? ??? >? ? ???_______________________________________________ > >? ? ???NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >? ? ???NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >? ? ???http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? > >? ???-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >? ??? >? ???_______________________________________________ > >? ???NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >? ???NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >? ???http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >? ??? >? ??? >? ? >??? >??? > ? >??? >??? >??? >???Windows Live? > Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with >???your favorite sports pics. Check it out.? >??? > >???-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >??? >???_______________________________________________ > >???NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >???NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >???http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >??? >??? >? > > >? ? > > > >? > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 08:43:03 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:43:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? (2.4 Comment) In-Reply-To: <542392.76584.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <599673A1A9E84CCEB645D1833F14677F@Tony> <542392.76584.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've got a scad of stuff on 50 and haven't changed yet--but probably will. I ran across a 7 channel 2.4 cheap and picked it up--but they didn't redesign the radios for no antenna and the radio sort of flops back. I took some lead (Dubro or whatever) weights, two or three strips about 3" long, wrapped them up with electrical tape and tie-wrapped them on the handle--flip them out with the transmitter out of the case and flip them back to fit in the case. Works swell. RS > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 09:16:32 -0700 > From: mups1953 at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > I'm still hanging on to 72 for a bunch of reasons and I can tell you that using 72 at the national site is a bad idea. 4 sites and you don't really ever feel safe. I will have 2.4 next time I fly there. 72 is almost like having your own frequency because so many have gone to 2.4. Having 72 this year at the Nats was a bit of an embarrasment for me. It's just that my radio works so well that I hate to change anything. 9 years old and I didn't want to upgrade it but I still love it and I like red shirts too. I guess I got a good one. Mike > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > > > From: Tony > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:09 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is > > nothing in the works to commit > > the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony > > Stillman, President > > > > Radio > > South, Inc. > > > > 139 Altama > > Connector, > > Box 322 > > > > Brunswick, > > GA 31525 > > > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > > > > Sent: Friday, > > July 31, 2009 11:20 > > AM > > > > To: General > > pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: > > [NSRCA-discussion] > > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go from 72 to SS? Come on > > Joe, I can't > > handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog > > cell phone (the new > > digital one drops calls all the time - never happened > > with my old phone) and > > now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter > > (5-speed Hog). Now you > > want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? > > This is just too > > much! LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > John Pavlick > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, > > Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > > Nats in 2010? > > > > To: "NSRCA Discussion List" > > > > > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM > > It really isn't just about > > cutting costs either. It > > is also about other AMA membership complaining about the > > site not being > > available for their use. You would not believe the number > > of complaints AMA > > has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the > > overall Nats at the > > site has been shortened in length. > > > > > > > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > > future. I've heard > > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > > site SS only in the > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 > > 20:57:16 -0700 > > > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > > Nats in 2010? > > > > > > > > This is really funny. > > They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I > > am sure they make > > money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > > but I heard > > that the members of the club were complaining that the > > nats takes too much > > of their time away from their field for them to fly. > > Wasn't the field built > > for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > > all paid for it. The ama > > will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait > > till they see entry's > > decline. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > > Tony > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Tony > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > > the Nats in 2010? > > > > To: "' General pattern discussion '" > > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 > > PM > > > > > > That > > is a possibility > > also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to > > a 2 week all-events > > NATS like used to be done. If all events are > > together, HQ can put all > > costs into one effort. If they are all split up, > > Each group would > > have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ > > can?t send a group of > > people to every site. > > > > > > > > > > Tony > > Stillman, > > President > > Radio > > South, Inc. > > 139 > > Altama Connector, > > Box 322 > > Brunswick, > > GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > > On Behalf Of Tim > > Taylor > > > > Sent: > > Thursday, July 30, 2009 > > 3:39 PM > > > > To: > > General > > pattern discussion > > > > Subject: > > Re: > > [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > > 2010? > > > > > > > > > > > > It was done, It was called > > NPAC > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, > > 7/30/09, Bill's Email > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > > the Nats in 2010? > > > > To: " General pattern discussion > > " > > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > > PM > > > > > > Why not allow the SIGS to do > > their own thing? > > IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF > > can find a site for > > the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for > > them and so on. FF can > > do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > > together and so on?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > > > > > Matt: > > > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > > feasible? The > > problem is that it requires a large site for > > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > > FF. It may be very > > difficult to actually find places that can handle > > this group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony > > Stillman, > > President > > > > Radio > > South, Inc. > > 139 > > Altama > > Connector, Box > > 322 > > Brunswick, GA > > > > 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Windows Live? > > Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with > > your favorite sports pics. Check it out. > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, and share your photos. See how. http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 08:43:45 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:43:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <444452.26676.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <444452.26676.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <527331.14594.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> They should bow out of respect. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:29:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Embarrassed by flying on 72? Huh? Try riding an old Harley with a drum brake on the front wheel (and a shift pedal on the right side) into a bar with a bunch of rice burners parked out front! LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, mike mueller wrote: >From: mike mueller >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:16 PM > > >I'm still hanging on to 72 for a bunch of reasons and I can tell you that using 72 at the national site is a bad idea. 4 sites and you don't really ever feel safe. I will have 2.4 next time I fly there. 72 is almost like having your own frequency because so many have gone to 2.4. Having 72 this year at the Nats was a bit of an embarrasment for me. It's just that my radio works so well that I hate to change anything. 9 years old and I didn't want to upgrade it but I still love it and I like red shirts too. I guess I got a good one. Mike > >--- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > >> From: Tony >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? >> To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:09 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> There is >> nothing in the works to commit >> the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only. >> >> >> >> >> >> > Tony >> Stillman, President >> >> Radio >> South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama >> Connector, >> Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, >> GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick >> >> Sent: Friday, >> July 31, 2009 11:20 >> AM >> >> To: General >> pattern discussion >> >> > Subject: Re: >> [NSRCA-discussion] >> Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Go from 72 to SS? Come on >> Joe, I can't >> handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog >> cell phone (the new >> digital one drops calls all the time - never happened >> with my old phone) and >> now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter >> (5-speed Hog). Now you >> want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? >> This is just too >> much! LOL >> >> >> >> >> >> John Pavlick >> >> >> > >> --- On Fri, 7/31/09, >> Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com >> > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> From: Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the >> Nats in 2010? >> >> To: "NSRCA Discussion List" >> >> >> Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM > >> It really isn't just about >> cutting costs either. It >> is also about other AMA membership complaining about the >> site not being >> available for their use. You would not believe the number >> of complaints AMA >> has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the >> overall Nats at the >> site has been shortened in length. >> >> >> >> If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the >> future. I've heard >> rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA >> site SS only in the >> future. >> >> >> >> >> >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul > 2009 >> 20:57:16 -0700 >> >> From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com >> >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the >> Nats in 2010? >> >> >> >> This is really funny. >> They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I >> am sure they make >> money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, >> but I heard >> > that the members of the club were complaining that the >> nats takes too much >> of their time away from their field for them to fly. >> Wasn't the field built >> for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we >> all paid for it. The ama >> will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait >> till they see entry's >> decline. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> --- On Thu, 7/30/09, >> Tony >> wrote: >> >> >> From: Tony >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate >> the Nats in 2010? >> >> To: "' General pattern discussion '" >> >> >> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 >> PM >> >> >> That >> is a possibility >> also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to >> a 2 week all-events >> NATS like used to be done. If all events are >> together, HQ can put all >> costs into one effort. If they are all split up, >> Each group would >> have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ >> can?t send a group of >> people to every site. >> >> >> >> >> > Tony >> Stillman, >> President >> Radio >> South, Inc. >> 139 >> Altama Connector, >> Box 322 >> Brunswick, >> GA 31525 >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> >> >> >> From: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of Tim >> Taylor >> >> Sent: >> Thursday, July 30, 2009 >> 3:39 PM >> >> To: >> General >> pattern discussion >> >> Subject: >> Re: >> [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> >> >> >> >> It was done, It was called >> NPAC >> >> >> >> > >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> --- On Thu, >> 7/30/09, Bill's Email >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> From: Bill's Email >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate >> the Nats in 2010? >> >> To: " General pattern discussion > >> " >> >> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 >> PM >> >> >> Why not allow the SIGS to do >> their own thing? >> IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF >> can find a site for >> the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for >> them and so on. FF can >> do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF >> together and so on?? >> >> >> >> >> > >> Tony wrote: >> >> >> Matt: >> >> Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually >> feasible? The >> problem is that it requires a large site for >> Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >> require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor >> FF. It may be very >> difficult to actually find places that can handle >> this group. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tony >> Stillman, >> President > >> >> Radio >> South, Inc. >> 139 >> Altama >> Connector, Box >> 322 >> Brunswick, GA >> >> 31525 >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Windows Live? >> Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with >> your favorite sports pics. Check it out. > >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion > mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 31 08:48:37 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:48:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2356B3CD246A49B9A54071A20F3A87FC@glazecstp32xp> Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? J The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows LiveT Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Jul 31 08:55:40 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:55:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Message-ID: <670935.93627.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sometimes they do. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:43 PM They should bow out of respect. ?Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:29:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Embarrassed by flying on 72? Huh? Try riding an old ?Harley with a drum brake on the front wheel (and a shift?pedal?on the right side) into a bar with a bunch of rice burners parked out front! LOL ? John Pavlick? --- On Fri, 7/31/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:16 PM I'm still hanging on to 72 for a bunch of reasons and I can tell you that using 72 at the national site is a bad idea. 4 sites and you don't really ever feel safe. I will have 2.4 next time I fly there. 72 is almost like having your own frequency because so many have gone to 2.4. Having 72 this year at the Nats was a bit of an embarrasment for me. It's just that my radio works so well that I hate to change anything. 9 years old and I didn't want to upgrade it but I still love it and I like red shirts too. I guess I got a good one. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony wrote: > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:09 AM > > > >? >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > > > > > > > >? > > > > There is > nothing in the works to commit > the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only.? >? > > > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 Altama > Connector, >? Box 322 > > Brunswick, >? GA ? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 11:20 > AM > > To: General >? pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > >? ? > > >? >??? >??? >???Go?from 72 to SS? Come on > Joe,?I can't >???handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog > cell phone (the new >???digital one drops calls all the time - never happened > with my old phone) and >???now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter > (5-speed Hog). Now you >???want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? > This is just too >???much! LOL >??? >??? >???? >??? >??? >???John Pavlick > >??? > >???--- On Fri, 7/31/09, > Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > >???wrote: >??? >??? > >???From: Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > >???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > >???To: "NSRCA Discussion List" >??? > >???Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM >???It really isn't just about > cutting costs either. It >???is also about other AMA membership complaining about the > site not being >???available for their use. You would not believe the number > of complaints AMA >???has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the > overall Nats at the >???site has been shortened in length. > >???? > >???If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard >???rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the >???future. > >???? >??? >??? >??? >???Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 >???20:57:16 -0700 > >???From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > >???To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? >??? >? ? >? ??? >? ???This is really funny. >? ???They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I > am sure they make >? ???money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but? I heard >? ???that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats takes too much >? ???of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't the field built >? ???for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid for it. The ama >? ???will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait > till they see entry's >? ???decline.? >? ??? >? ???Chris >? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? >? ??? > >? ??? > >? ???--- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Tony >? ???wrote: >? ??? > >? ???From: Tony > >? ???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > >? ???To: "' General pattern discussion '" >? ??? > >? ???Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 > PM >? ??? >? ??? >? ???That > is a possibility >? ???also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to > a 2 week all-events >? ???NATS like used to be done.? If all events are > together, HQ can put all >? ???costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, > Each group would >? ???have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ > can?t send a group of >? ???people to every site. >? ??? >? ???? > >? ??? >? ???Tony > Stillman, >? ???President >? ???Radio > South, Inc. >? ???139 > Altama Connector, >? ???Box 322 >? ???Brunswick, >? GA ? 31525 >? ???1-800-962-7802 > >? ???www.radiosouthrc.com > >? ??? >? ??? >? ??? >? ???From: >? ???nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >? ???[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > >? ???Sent: > Thursday, July 30, 2009 >? ???3:39 PM > >? ???To: > General >? ? ? pattern discussion > >? ???Subject: > Re: >? ???[NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? >? ???? >? ??? >? ? ? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???It was done, It was called > NPAC >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???Tim > >? ? ??? > >? ? ???--- On Thu, > 7/30/09, Bill's Email >? ? ???wrote: >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? > >? ? ???From: Bill's Email > >? ? ???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > >? ? ???To: " General pattern discussion >? ? ???" > >? ? ???Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > PM >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???Why not allow the SIGS to do > their own thing? >? ? ???IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF > can find a site for >? ? ???the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for > them and so on. FF can >? ? ???do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > together and so on?? > >? ? ??? > >? ? ??? > >? ? ???Tony wrote:? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???Matt: > >? ? ???Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible?? The >? ? ???problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >? ? ???require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF.? It may be very >? ? ???difficult to actually find places that can handle > this group. >? ? ??? >? ? ???? > >? ? ???? > >? ? ??? >? ? ???Tony > Stillman, >? ? ???President >? ? ??? >? ? ???Radio > South, Inc. >? ? ???139 > Altama >? ? ???Connector, Box >? ? ? ? 322 >? ? ???Brunswick, GA > ? >? 31525 >? ? ????1-800-962-7802? > >? ? ???www.radiosouthrc.com > >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ???? >? ? ??? > >? ? ???-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >? ? ??? >? ? ???_______________________________________________ > >? ? ???NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >? ? ???NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >? ? ???http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >? ? ??? >? ? ??? >? ? ? >? ??? >? ???? >? ??? > >? ???-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >? ??? >? ???_______________________________________________ > >? ???NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >? ???NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >? ???http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >? ??? >? ??? >? ? >??? >??? > ? >??? >??? >??? >???Windows Live? > Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with >???your favorite sports pics. Check it out.? >??? > >???-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >??? >???_______________________________________________ > >???NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >???NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >???http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >??? >??? >? > > >? ? > > > >? > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Jul 31 08:57:59 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:57:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Message-ID: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tony, ?And you thought I was?acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree.? If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities..? I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals.? Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is?a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an?asset.? And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint.? What form do I sign?? J? The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice.? Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can?t drive to easily?? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals.? It?s OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year.? Tough noogies. ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. ? If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but? I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris ? ? ? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done.? If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? It was done, It was called NPAC ? Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible?? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802? www.radiosouthrc.com ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Fri Jul 31 08:58:47 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 16:58:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <670935.93627.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <670935.93627.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are you sure they?re not just wharfing up a hairball? J Sorry, I just couldn?t resist! From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:56 PM To: General pattern discussion; Bob Kane Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Sometimes they do. :) John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:43 PM They should bow out of respect. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _____ From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:29:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Embarrassed by flying on 72? Huh? Try riding an old Harley with a drum brake on the front wheel (and a shift pedal on the right side) into a bar with a bunch of rice burners parked out front! LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:16 PM I'm still hanging on to 72 for a bunch of reasons and I can tell you that using 72 at the national site is a bad idea. 4 sites and you don't really ever feel safe. I will have 2.4 next time I fly there. 72 is almost like having your own frequency because so many have gone to 2.4. Having 72 this year at the Nats was a bit of an embarrasment for me. It's just that my radio works so well that I hate to change anything. 9 years old and I didn't want to upgrade it but I still love it and I like red shirts too. I guess I got a good one. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Tony > wrote: > From: Tony > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: jpavlick at idseng.com , "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 11:09 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is > nothing in the works to commit > the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only. > > > > > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 Altama > Connector, > Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 11:20 > AM > > To: General > pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > > > > > Go from 72 to SS? Come on > Joe, I can't > handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog > cell phone (the new > digital one drops calls all the time - never happened > with my old phone) and > now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter > (5-speed Hog). Now you > want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? > This is just too > much! LOL > > > > > > John Pavlick > > > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, > Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > From: Joe Lachowski < jlachow at hotmail.com > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > To: "NSRCA Discussion List" > > > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM > It really isn't just about > cutting costs either. It > is also about other AMA membership complaining about the > site not being > available for their use. You would not believe the number > of complaints AMA > has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the > overall Nats at the > site has been shortened in length. > > > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the > future. I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA > site SS only in the > future. > > > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 > 20:57:16 -0700 > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > This is really funny. > They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I > am sure they make > money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but I heard > that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats takes too much > of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't the field built > for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid for it. The ama > will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait > till they see entry's > decline. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, > Tony > > wrote: > > > From: Tony > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: "' General pattern discussion '" > > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 > PM > > > That > is a possibility > also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to > a 2 week all-events > NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ can put all > costs into one effort. If they are all split up, > Each group would > have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ > can?t send a group of > people to every site. > > > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 > Altama Connector, > Box 322 > Brunswick, > GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] > On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > > Sent: > Thursday, July 30, 2009 > 3:39 PM > > To: > General > pattern discussion > > Subject: > Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > > > It was done, It was called > NPAC > > > > > > Tim > > > > --- On Thu, > 7/30/09, Bill's Email > > wrote: > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate > the Nats in 2010? > > To: " General pattern discussion > " > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 > PM > > > Why not allow the SIGS to do > their own thing? > IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF > can find a site for > the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for > them and so on. FF can > do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF > together and so on?? > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > > Matt: > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible? The > problem is that it requires a large site for > Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor > FF. It may be very > difficult to actually find places that can handle > this group. > > > > > > > Tony > Stillman, > President > > Radio > South, Inc. > 139 > Altama > Connector, Box > 322 > Brunswick, GA > > 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > Windows Live? > Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with > your favorite sports pics. Check it out. > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 31 09:15:32 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:15:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <4A723044.6060208@cox.net> Message-ID: <90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And for many years. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more > than a big contest held in Indiana. > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way > to allow more people to participate. > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get > to Muncie. > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From wgalligan at att.net Fri Jul 31 09:17:45 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:17:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> Message-ID: <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> Verne, What about the occasional 9-0-8.5 score ooops!!! Did I just open up a snap controversy? Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > Welcome to the Nats. I've never been to one yet where there weren't some > large discrepancies. I had one maneuver this year that was scored 5, 8, > and > 9. Don't dwell on it, it'll ruin your week, especially if you start > wondering who was right. > > Verne > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hansen > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:51 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > I agree Mark, after seeing the scoring spread in Intermediate and > Advanced (many 2+ point differentials between judges) I would have to > say that including intermediate pilots in the judging pool for Advanced > certainly would not hurt. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, > Mark > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:48 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Ron, > > Do we know why so few Intermediate pilots were asked to judge? I > realize that they're the "least experienced" per say, but we do ask them > to get certified, so it's a little bit of a slap if we make them do that > and then pass on their help. Also, per my previous message, many of > them are not beginners and actually have a fair amount of judging > experience. With 3 judge panels, it's a perfect time for them to get > more experience since you can sprinkle them in amongst more seasoned > judges. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van > Putte > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The > other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the > job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging > pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this > year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers > came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. > > Ron VP > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > >> I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part >> of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that >> bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. >> >> Arch >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: >> >>> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >>> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >>> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >>> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >>> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >>> >>> Ron VP >>> . >>> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>>> determined later). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Derek >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>>> Subject: nats format >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They are: >>>> >>>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>>> >>>> a. 8 finalists >>>> >>>> b. 3 rounds >>>> >>>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>>> volunteers) >>>> >>>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>>> >>>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>>> >>>> f. Do on 4th day >>>> >>>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>> >>>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>>> >>>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>>> >>>> a. 3 round finals >>>> >>>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>> >>>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>> >>>> d. 10 finalists >>>> >>>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>> >>>> 3. Fai >>>> >>>> a. 3 rounds final >>>> >>>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>>> >>>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>>> >>>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>>> normalized score >>>> >>>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>> >>>> f. 10 finalists >>>> >>>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rationale behind changes: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Advanced >>>> >>>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>>> before the masters and fai is done. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Masters >>>> >>>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>>> be dropped. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> FAI >>>> >>>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>>> It would be a showcase event. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To conclude: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>>> >>>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>>> be implemented. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Respectfully >>>> >>>> Mike Harrison >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: > 07/30/09 05:58:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Fri Jul 31 09:24:02 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:24:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> Message-ID: <4A7328B0.5000304@cox.net> Wayne Galligan wrote: > Verne, > > What about the occasional 9-0-8.5 score > > ooops!!! Did I just open up a snap controversy? > > Wayne Galligan This is was why there at least 2 or 3 judges, rounds are normalized and low rounds dropped. It tends to smooth out the inconsistencies. From wemodels at cox.net Fri Jul 31 09:27:41 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:27:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <4A723044.6060208@cox.net> <90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <4A73298B.3050800@cox.net> Bill Glaze wrote: > Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to > establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, > (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population > is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And > for many years. Bill Glaze Of course I was only being half serious. One reason AMA is in Muncie was the study that showed the majority of AMA members being within a day's drive or something like that of Muncie. As good a reason as any I guess! But anyone who has been there knows that the AMA site is one of the best in the US. It is a fantastic flying site. And it will be show cased for the World with the F3C Worlds there this year and F3A in 2011. From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 09:29:21 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:29:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: John: It is a tough crowd!! LOL. Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony, And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 09:30:16 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:30:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><4A723044.6060208@cox.net> <90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: I do like the idea of moving the NATS around, even if it is just Pattern.... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:16 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And for many years. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more > than a big contest held in Indiana. > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way > to allow more people to participate. > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get > to Muncie. > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From burtona at atmc.net Fri Jul 31 09:30:52 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:30:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <4A7328B0.5000304@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> <4A7328B0.5000304@cox.net> Message-ID: <00f001ca1204$aba95190$02fbf4b0$@net> What's the probability the zero was the correct score???????? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:24 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Wayne Galligan wrote: > Verne, > > What about the occasional 9-0-8.5 score > > ooops!!! Did I just open up a snap controversy? > > Wayne Galligan This is was why there at least 2 or 3 judges, rounds are normalized and low rounds dropped. It tends to smooth out the inconsistencies. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wgalligan at att.net Fri Jul 31 09:37:13 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:37:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <4A7328B0.5000304@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com><7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> <4A7328B0.5000304@cox.net> Message-ID: <78760857E5BD4B04AB705479EDD863B0@WaynePC> Just kiddin Bill.... I'm still trying to normalize my snaps and spins right now they are... abnormal. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > Wayne Galligan wrote: >> Verne, >> >> What about the occasional 9-0-8.5 score >> >> ooops!!! Did I just open up a snap controversy? >> >> Wayne Galligan > This is was why there at least 2 or 3 judges, rounds are normalized and > low rounds dropped. It tends to smooth out the inconsistencies. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From burtona at atmc.net Fri Jul 31 09:39:10 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:39:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <00f101ca1205$d3f892e0$7be9b8a0$@net> "Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. " That's distressing to hear. I hope my district VP is one that wants to see competition and the NATS continued. I'd like to know his thoughts on this. If I ever see him again I'll ask him. If he has the wrong answer he'll not get my support again. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? John: It is a tough crowd!! LOL. Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony, And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? J The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Fri Jul 31 09:43:28 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:43:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <00f001ca1204$aba95190$02fbf4b0$@net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> <4A7328B0.5000304@cox.net> <00f001ca1204$aba95190$02fbf4b0$@net> Message-ID: <4A732D3E.1060706@cox.net> Dave Burton wrote: > What's the probability the zero was the correct score???????? > Unknowable. Again, this is the reason for multiple judges. It is interesting that everyone always assumes that the zero is the wrong score. Yet if it was 7-10-7 nobody would say "Hey, why'd I get a 10"!! From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 09:43:57 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:43:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <00f101ca1205$d3f892e0$7be9b8a0$@net> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <00f101ca1205$d3f892e0$7be9b8a0$@net> Message-ID: <0B219769BC344BD69D5A79D9847CC5C6@Tony> I would recommend ALL NSRCA members to contact their VP and let them know... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:39 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? "Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. " That's distressing to hear. I hope my district VP is one that wants to see competition and the NATS continued. I'd like to know his thoughts on this. If I ever see him again I'll ask him. If he has the wrong answer he'll not get my support again. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? John: It is a tough crowd!! LOL. Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony, And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 31 09:50:14 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 17:50:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <4A723044.6060208@cox.net><90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> <4A73298B.3050800@cox.net> Message-ID: <9855437E072848C9A56F14BD6813D062@glazecstp32xp> I could scarcely agree with you more completely! Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > Bill Glaze wrote: >> Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to >> establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, >> (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population >> is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And >> for many years. Bill Glaze > > > Of course I was only being half serious. One reason AMA is in Muncie was > the study that showed the majority of AMA members being within a day's > drive or something like that of Muncie. > > As good a reason as any I guess! But anyone who has been there knows > that the AMA site is one of the best in the US. It is a fantastic flying > site. And it will be show cased for the World with the F3C Worlds there > this year and F3A in 2011. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From billpritch at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 10:00:52 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:00:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... In-Reply-To: References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><4A723044.6060208@cox.net> <90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> I live in Muncie and can tell you that the AMA site is not our local flying site. In fact, some local flyers foolishly thought it would be when the AMA came to town and as a result, our local club doesn't really exist any more. Most of the guys have gone off on their own in groups of 10 or 12 and have, over the years, come to realize that the AMA site is not going to work for a local flying site due to the activity level - which is a great thing!! My guess would be that most of the sport flyers clamoring to fly there are traveling though town, want to see the site, and become frustrated over the competition schedule that takes them out of an hour of sport flying.... There is a solution... Let the membership know that they can fly on site # (....???...) anytime they want to on DSS. Even in the beginning, I didn't fly out there (before DSS) because there was always a parking lot full of transmitters..... As for finals in Advanced and Intermediate - just do it. We like to refer to ourselves on site 4 as "the children"..... Yes, it's a great excuse to misbehave (and we do), but really, it should all be the same. Relocation? - just do it. For me, it's no easy thing to participate while at home. It's much easier to leave the house/family/kids for a few days than try to balance it all during the week of the Nats. I'll gladly go whereever......trust me, it's a lot easier to be away!! There are some wonderful guys that are AMA staffers and of course Tony is an invaluable assett to NSRCA as a pattern guy that's on the Exec Council. While it's easy to piss and moan about some details regarding our specific event and passion, don't forget the fight that needs to be fought with the FAA and the very real threat that is posed to our hobby in general. It's going to be the AMA, not us, that fights that fight and we need to support them 10000%. Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: Tony To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:30:10 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I do like the idea of moving the NATS around, even if it is just Pattern.... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:16 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And for many years. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more > than a big contest held in Indiana. > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way > to allow more people to participate. > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get > to Muncie. > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Jul 31 10:04:56 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:04:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> Tony: I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that you're a voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in this hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-launch gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed demos. And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, it seems to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even belonging to the AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can be handled by other means.) Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. But, it seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least check and see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on sport flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it during October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the Nationals; I'll bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not to beat a dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the various SIGS. (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is that one of the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is competition. In fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or so I see it. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? John: It is a tough crowd!! LOL. Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony, And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? J The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows LiveT Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 10:15:13 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:15:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: Bill: I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. Many VP's have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership competes officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we have to pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent the USA in FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition department at HQ who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds to the overall cost of AMA. Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it with other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate as 99% of the membership does not want it... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony: I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that you're a voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in this hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-launch gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed demos. And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, it seems to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even belonging to the AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can be handled by other means.) Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. But, it seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least check and see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on sport flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it during October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the Nationals; I'll bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not to beat a dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the various SIGS. (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is that one of the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is competition. In fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or so I see it. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? John: It is a tough crowd!! LOL. Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony, And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Fri Jul 31 10:32:35 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:32:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <00f001ca1204$aba95190$02fbf4b0$@net> Message-ID: <263964395.7431081249065154801.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> 33.33%.? Just guessing. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Burton" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:30:58 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format What's the probability the zero was the correct score???????? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:24 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Wayne Galligan wrote: > Verne, > > What about the occasional 9-0-8.5 score > > ooops!!! ?Did I just open up a snap controversy? > > Wayne Galligan This is was why there at least 2 or 3 judges, rounds are normalized and low rounds dropped. It tends to smooth out the inconsistencies. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Fri Jul 31 10:50:59 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:50:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <4A733D11.9000503@cox.net> Tony wrote: > > Bill: > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. Many > VP's have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* > about competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA > membership competes officially in a sanctioned event. It become > difficult as to why we have to pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just > for the right to represent the USA in FAI events/planning! The cost > of running the competition department at HQ who handles sanctions/rule > books/FAI events and World Champs adds to the overall cost of AMA. > > > > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it > with other council members that just see it as a cost we could > eliminate as 99% of the membership does not want it..... > > > > > Wow, it's down to 1% now? Last I heard a few years back it was 8% or so, and that included club events, etc. anything with a sanction. So it takes 1,724 Open memberships to pay for the FAI? 12% of the membership fees go directly to paying the FAI? Wow!!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 10:54:16 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:54:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... In-Reply-To: <445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <17656.96722.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Well stated Bill. Support the AMA. They are vitally important. They treat us very well when you use the site for the Shootout too. Mike --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: > From: Bill Pritchett > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 1:00 PM > I live in Muncie and can tell > you that the AMA site is not > our local flying site.? In fact, some local > flyers foolishly thought it would be when the AMA came to > town and as a result, our local club doesn't really > exist any more.? Most of the guys have gone off on > their own in groups of 10 or 12 and have, over the years, > come to realize that the AMA site is not going to work for a > local flying site due to the activity level - which is a > great thing!!? My guess would be that most of the sport > flyers clamoring to fly there are traveling though town, > want to see the site, and become frustrated over the > competition schedule that takes them out of an hour of sport > flying....?? There is a solution...? Let the > membership know that they can fly on > site # (....???...) anytime they want to on DSS.? > Even in the beginning, I didn't fly out there (before > DSS) because there was always a parking lot full of > transmitters..... > As for finals in Advanced and Intermediate - just do > it.? We like to refer to ourselves on site 4 as > "the children".....? Yes, it's a great > excuse to misbehave (and we do), but really, it should all > be the same. > Relocation?? - just do it.? For me, it's no > easy thing to participate while at home.? It's much > easier to leave the house/family/kids for a few days than > try to balance it all during the week of the Nats.? > I'll gladly go whereever......trust me, it's a lot > easier to be away!! > There are some wonderful guys that are AMA staffers and of > course Tony is an invaluable assett to NSRCA as a pattern > guy that's on the Exec Council.? While it's > easy to piss and moan about some details regarding our > specific event and passion, don't > forget the fight that needs to be fought with the FAA and > the very real threat that is posed to our hobby in > general.? It's going to be the AMA, not us, that > fights that fight and we need to support them 10000%. > Pritch > ?Bill Pritchett > Souled Out Entertainment > www.souledoutentertainment.biz > 765-744-9322 > > > > From: > Tony > To: General > pattern discussion > Sent: Friday, > July 31, 2009 1:30:10 PM > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > I do like the idea of moving the NATS around, even if it is > just Pattern.... > > > Tony Stillman, President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > Brunswick, GA? 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:16 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > Geographic Center, yes.? However, when United Airlines > was looking to > establish a pilot domicile in the > Eastern part of the Midwest, (however that > > translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is > within a 500 mile > radius of Cleveland.? So, Cleveland it was.? And > for many years.? Bill Glaze > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill's Email" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in > Muncie is that > > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. > Pattern is one > > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is > really not much more > > than a big contest held in > Indiana. > > > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but > among the lowest in > > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS > around is one way > > to allow more people to participate. > > > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next > year out west, then > > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came > from 500 miles or > > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us > Left Coasters to get > > to Muncie. > > > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the > closest city to the > > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From dmclalin at gmail.com Fri Jul 31 11:13:07 2009 From: dmclalin at gmail.com (Daniel McLalin) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:13:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... In-Reply-To: <445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <4A723044.6060208@cox.net> <90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp> <445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54f1efb30907311213g47d9fe95tee829e1d65014c5f@mail.gmail.com> Perhaps there can be regional championships that combine multiple areas and the top from each region advance to AMA site in Muncie. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: > I live in Muncie and can tell you that the AMA site is not our local > flying site. In fact, some local flyers foolishly thought it would be > when the AMA came to town and as a result, our local club doesn't really > exist any more. Most of the guys have gone off on their own in groups of 10 > or 12 and have, over the years, come to realize that the AMA site is not > going to work for a local flying site due to the activity level - which is a > great thing!! My guess would be that most of the sport flyers clamoring to > fly there are traveling though town, want to see the site, and become > frustrated over the competition schedule that takes them out of an hour of > sport flying.... There is a solution... Let the membership know that they > can fly on site # (....???...) anytime they want to on DSS. Even in the > beginning, I didn't fly out there (before DSS) because there was always a > parking lot full of transmitters..... > As for finals in Advanced and Intermediate - just do it. We like to refer > to ourselves on site 4 as "the children"..... Yes, it's a great excuse to > misbehave (and we do), but really, it should all be the same. > Relocation? - just do it. For me, it's no easy thing to participate while > at home. It's much easier to leave the house/family/kids for a few days > than try to balance it all during the week of the Nats. I'll gladly go > whereever......trust me, it's a lot easier to be away!! > There are some wonderful guys that are AMA staffers and of course Tony is > an invaluable assett to NSRCA as a pattern guy that's on the Exec Council. > While it's easy to piss and moan about some details regarding our specific > event and passion, don't forget the fight that needs to be fought with the > FAA and the very real threat that is posed to our hobby in general. It's > going to be the AMA, not us, that fights that fight and we need to support > them 10000%. > Pritch > > Bill Pritchett > Souled Out Entertainment > www.souledoutentertainment.biz > 765-744-9322 > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Tony > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2009 1:30:10 PM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > I do like the idea of moving the NATS around, even if it is just > Pattern.... > > > Tony Stillman, President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > Brunswick, GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:16 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to > establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, (however > that > > translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is within a 500 mile > > radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And for many years. Bill > Glaze > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bill's Email" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that > > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one > > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more > > > than a big contest held in Indiana. > > > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in > > > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way > > to allow more people to participate. > > > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then > > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or > > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get > > to Muncie. > > > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the > > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 11:27:40 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:27:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... In-Reply-To: <54f1efb30907311213g47d9fe95tee829e1d65014c5f@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com><821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><4A723044.6060208@cox.net><90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp><445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <54f1efb30907311213g47d9fe95tee829e1d65014c5f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9CDE05C08554405B83A90E7F6096C244@Tony> That was one of the ideas that was brought to the table. The NATS is an open event, anyone can participate. It is time to think outside the box a little. What if ALL events were changed so that only Nationals Qualifiers are allowed to compete at the NATS? Then you would limit the participants and would really get the best of the best competing for a National Championship. I would argue that the term "National Champion" would take on new meaning! The problem is that the event is run by volunteers and that number would virtually disappear should this happen. Everyone attending would be working full time to win. This will create a whole new set of problems. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McLalin Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation;Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... Perhaps there can be regional championships that combine multiple areas and the top from each region advance to AMA site in Muncie. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: I live in Muncie and can tell you that the AMA site is not our local flying site. In fact, some local flyers foolishly thought it would be when the AMA came to town and as a result, our local club doesn't really exist any more. Most of the guys have gone off on their own in groups of 10 or 12 and have, over the years, come to realize that the AMA site is not going to work for a local flying site due to the activity level - which is a great thing!! My guess would be that most of the sport flyers clamoring to fly there are traveling though town, want to see the site, and become frustrated over the competition schedule that takes them out of an hour of sport flying.... There is a solution... Let the membership know that they can fly on site # (....???...) anytime they want to on DSS. Even in the beginning, I didn't fly out there (before DSS) because there was always a parking lot full of transmitters..... As for finals in Advanced and Intermediate - just do it. We like to refer to ourselves on site 4 as "the children"..... Yes, it's a great excuse to misbehave (and we do), but really, it should all be the same. Relocation? - just do it. For me, it's no easy thing to participate while at home. It's much easier to leave the house/family/kids for a few days than try to balance it all during the week of the Nats. I'll gladly go whereever......trust me, it's a lot easier to be away!! There are some wonderful guys that are AMA staffers and of course Tony is an invaluable assett to NSRCA as a pattern guy that's on the Exec Council. While it's easy to piss and moan about some details regarding our specific event and passion, don't forget the fight that needs to be fought with the FAA and the very real threat that is posed to our hobby in general. It's going to be the AMA, not us, that fights that fight and we need to support them 10000%. Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 _____ From: Tony To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:30:10 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I do like the idea of moving the NATS around, even if it is just Pattern.... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:16 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And for many years. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more > than a big contest held in Indiana. > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way > to allow more people to participate. > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get > to Muncie. > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Jul 31 11:38:29 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:38:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... In-Reply-To: <9CDE05C08554405B83A90E7F6096C244@Tony> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com><821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><4A723044.6060208@cox.net><90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp><445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <54f1efb30907311213g47d9fe95tee829e1d65014c5f@mail.gmail.com> <9CDE05C08554405B83A90E7F6096C244@Tony> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E92@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> There are several other problems as I see it. It would significantly increase the time required to participate at that level. Currently, many of us really burn the fuel a few weeks prior to the nats. Yes, we fly all season, but prep for the nationals is intense for those trying to win their class. Add regional's that you have to win and suddenly your prepping multiple times. Another BIG problem, is that for MANY...the Nats is a social event. I realize that's not it's primary role, but it's a role that I think is critically important to our "sport". More than half...maybe more than 75% of the attendees go to participate. Not to win. They go to spend a week immersed in model airplanes and to see how they stack up. Regionals would just be another local contest without much hoopla, and the Nats would devolve to a small group of people who have the time...not necessarily the talent to participate at all the events. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:28 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... That was one of the ideas that was brought to the table... The NATS is an open event, anyone can participate. It is time to think outside the box a little. What if ALL events were changed so that only Nationals Qualifiers are allowed to compete at the NATS? Then you would limit the participants and would really get the best of the best competing for a National Championship. I would argue that the term "National Champion" would take on new meaning! The problem is that the event is run by volunteers and that number would virtually disappear should this happen. Everyone attending would be working full time to win. This will create a whole new set of problems. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McLalin Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation;Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... Perhaps there can be regional championships that combine multiple areas and the top from each region advance to AMA site in Muncie. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Bill Pritchett > wrote: I live in Muncie and can tell you that the AMA site is not our local flying site. In fact, some local flyers foolishly thought it would be when the AMA came to town and as a result, our local club doesn't really exist any more. Most of the guys have gone off on their own in groups of 10 or 12 and have, over the years, come to realize that the AMA site is not going to work for a local flying site due to the activity level - which is a great thing!! My guess would be that most of the sport flyers clamoring to fly there are traveling though town, want to see the site, and become frustrated over the competition schedule that takes them out of an hour of sport flying.... There is a solution... Let the membership know that they can fly on site # (....???...) anytime they want to on DSS. Even in the beginning, I didn't fly out there (before DSS) because there was always a parking lot full of transmitters..... As for finals in Advanced and Intermediate - just do it. We like to refer to ourselves on site 4 as "the children"..... Yes, it's a great excuse to misbehave (and we do), but really, it should all be the same. Relocation? - just do it. For me, it's no easy thing to participate while at home. It's much easier to leave the house/family/kids for a few days than try to balance it all during the week of the Nats. I'll gladly go whereever......trust me, it's a lot easier to be away!! There are some wonderful guys that are AMA staffers and of course Tony is an invaluable assett to NSRCA as a pattern guy that's on the Exec Council. While it's easy to piss and moan about some details regarding our specific event and passion, don't forget the fight that needs to be fought with the FAA and the very real threat that is posed to our hobby in general. It's going to be the AMA, not us, that fights that fight and we need to support them 10000%. Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: Tony > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:30:10 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I do like the idea of moving the NATS around, even if it is just Pattern.... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:16 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And for many years. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more > than a big contest held in Indiana. > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way > to allow more people to participate. > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get > to Muncie. > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Jul 31 11:42:18 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:42:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E92@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com><821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><4A723044.6060208@cox.net><90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp><445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><54f1efb30907311213g47d9fe95tee829e1d65014c5f@mail.gmail.com><9CDE05C08554405B83A90E7F6096C244@Tony> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E92@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Mark: You are correct on all points. It just comes down to what the membership wants in a NATS and what can be done. However, I would bring up that at the World Champs, many people attend just to renew friendships. I realize that this is only in the USA every 10 years or so, but still, this does happen especially with the Europeans. Look at how many attended the TOC as spectators just to watch the best? Could a NATS turn into that? Perhaps. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation;Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... There are several other problems as I see it. It would significantly increase the time required to participate at that level. Currently, many of us really burn the fuel a few weeks prior to the nats. Yes, we fly all season, but prep for the nationals is intense for those trying to win their class. Add regional's that you have to win and suddenly your prepping multiple times. Another BIG problem, is that for MANY.the Nats is a social event. I realize that's not it's primary role, but it's a role that I think is critically important to our "sport". More than half.maybe more than 75% of the attendees go to participate. Not to win. They go to spend a week immersed in model airplanes and to see how they stack up. Regionals would just be another local contest without much hoopla, and the Nats would devolve to a small group of people who have the time.not necessarily the talent to participate at all the events. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:28 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... That was one of the ideas that was brought to the table. The NATS is an open event, anyone can participate. It is time to think outside the box a little. What if ALL events were changed so that only Nationals Qualifiers are allowed to compete at the NATS? Then you would limit the participants and would really get the best of the best competing for a National Championship. I would argue that the term "National Champion" would take on new meaning! The problem is that the event is run by volunteers and that number would virtually disappear should this happen. Everyone attending would be working full time to win. This will create a whole new set of problems. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Daniel McLalin Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 3:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation;Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... Perhaps there can be regional championships that combine multiple areas and the top from each region advance to AMA site in Muncie. On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Bill Pritchett wrote: I live in Muncie and can tell you that the AMA site is not our local flying site. In fact, some local flyers foolishly thought it would be when the AMA came to town and as a result, our local club doesn't really exist any more. Most of the guys have gone off on their own in groups of 10 or 12 and have, over the years, come to realize that the AMA site is not going to work for a local flying site due to the activity level - which is a great thing!! My guess would be that most of the sport flyers clamoring to fly there are traveling though town, want to see the site, and become frustrated over the competition schedule that takes them out of an hour of sport flying.... There is a solution... Let the membership know that they can fly on site # (....???...) anytime they want to on DSS. Even in the beginning, I didn't fly out there (before DSS) because there was always a parking lot full of transmitters..... As for finals in Advanced and Intermediate - just do it. We like to refer to ourselves on site 4 as "the children"..... Yes, it's a great excuse to misbehave (and we do), but really, it should all be the same. Relocation? - just do it. For me, it's no easy thing to participate while at home. It's much easier to leave the house/family/kids for a few days than try to balance it all during the week of the Nats. I'll gladly go whereever......trust me, it's a lot easier to be away!! There are some wonderful guys that are AMA staffers and of course Tony is an invaluable assett to NSRCA as a pattern guy that's on the Exec Council. While it's easy to piss and moan about some details regarding our specific event and passion, don't forget the fight that needs to be fought with the FAA and the very real threat that is posed to our hobby in general. It's going to be the AMA, not us, that fights that fight and we need to support them 10000%. Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 _____ From: Tony To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:30:10 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I do like the idea of moving the NATS around, even if it is just Pattern.... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:16 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Geographic Center, yes. However, when United Airlines was looking to establish a pilot domicile in the Eastern part of the Midwest, (however that translates) they found that 70% of the U.S. population is within a 500 mile radius of Cleveland. So, Cleveland it was. And for many years. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill's Email" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > One thing that has resulted from basing the NATS in Muncie is that > participation from pilots out west has fallen off. Pattern is one > exception, but in many other disciplines the NATS is really not much more > than a big contest held in Indiana. > > AMA District X has the largest number of members, but among the lowest in > NATS participation over all the areas. Moving the NATS around is one way > to allow more people to participate. > > My suggestion would be one year in Muncie the next year out west, then > back to Muncie. I wonder how many of those that came from 500 miles or > less would make the 2,100 mile trek it takes for us Left Coasters to get > to Muncie. > > Better yet, hold the NATS in Lebanon, Kansas, the closest city to the > geographic center of the US!!! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/31/09 05:58:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Fri Jul 31 12:10:41 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:10:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC> Message-ID: <000001ca121a$fbde9b00$f39bd100$@rr.com> Nope, not gonna bite.... Verne -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:17 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Verne, What about the occasional 9-0-8.5 score ooops!!! Did I just open up a snap controversy? Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Verne Koester" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:05 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > Welcome to the Nats. I've never been to one yet where there weren't some > large discrepancies. I had one maneuver this year that was scored 5, 8, > and > 9. Don't dwell on it, it'll ruin your week, especially if you start > wondering who was right. > > Verne > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hansen > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:51 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > I agree Mark, after seeing the scoring spread in Intermediate and > Advanced (many 2+ point differentials between judges) I would have to > say that including intermediate pilots in the judging pool for Advanced > certainly would not hurt. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, > Mark > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:48 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Ron, > > Do we know why so few Intermediate pilots were asked to judge? I > realize that they're the "least experienced" per say, but we do ask them > to get certified, so it's a little bit of a slap if we make them do that > and then pass on their help. Also, per my previous message, many of > them are not beginners and actually have a fair amount of judging > experience. With 3 judge panels, it's a perfect time for them to get > more experience since you can sprinkle them in amongst more seasoned > judges. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van > Putte > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The > other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the > job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging > pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this > year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers > came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. > > Ron VP > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > >> I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part >> of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that >> bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. >> >> Arch >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: >> >>> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >>> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >>> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >>> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >>> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >>> >>> Ron VP >>> . >>> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>>> determined later). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -Derek >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>>> Subject: nats format >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> They are: >>>> >>>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>>> >>>> a. 8 finalists >>>> >>>> b. 3 rounds >>>> >>>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>>> volunteers) >>>> >>>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>>> >>>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>>> >>>> f. Do on 4th day >>>> >>>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>> >>>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>>> >>>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>>> >>>> a. 3 round finals >>>> >>>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>>> >>>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>> >>>> d. 10 finalists >>>> >>>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>> >>>> 3. Fai >>>> >>>> a. 3 rounds final >>>> >>>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>>> >>>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>>> >>>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>>> normalized score >>>> >>>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>>> >>>> f. 10 finalists >>>> >>>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rationale behind changes: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Advanced >>>> >>>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>>> before the masters and fai is done. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Masters >>>> >>>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>>> be dropped. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> FAI >>>> >>>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>>> It would be a showcase event. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To conclude: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>>> >>>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>>> be implemented. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Respectfully >>>> >>>> Mike Harrison >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: > 07/30/09 05:58:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus > signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jonlowe at aol.com Fri Jul 31 12:58:51 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:58:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Huntsville BPA Contest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBE038CB44D170-A10-130F@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> I will be there. Getting my Phoenix 6 ready. Also have a Compensator that may make it. Are you dragging up John and Houston? Houston can fly his old airplane if he wants. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2009 11:20 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Huntsville BPA Contest Who's planning to attend the Ballistic Pattern Association contest in Huntsville, AL next weekend?? ? I will be there with a new World Models Intruder 90R I test flew today. It has an OS 61 Hanno Special in it and when it gets on the pipe, what a beautiful sound! Unlike many new airplanes, this one balanced out perfectly and all my control throws were "spot on".? ? Ron VP? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Fri Jul 31 14:08:39 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:08:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Tony Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the number of AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones that go to WCs or other FAI events. And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers dropping by? Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for modeling purposes?? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Bill: I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. Many VP's have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership competes officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we have to pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent the USA in FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition department at HQ who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds to the overall cost of AMA. Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it with other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate as 99% of the membership does not want it... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony: I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that you're a voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in this hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-launch gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed demos. And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, it seems to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even belonging to the AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can be handled by other means.) Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. But, it seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least check and see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on sport flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it during October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the Nationals; I'll bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not to beat a dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the various SIGS. (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is that one of the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is competition. In fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or so I see it. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? John: It is a tough crowd!! LOL. Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony, And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From cahochhalter at yahoo.com Fri Jul 31 14:26:27 2009 From: cahochhalter at yahoo.com (Charles Hochhalter) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:26:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Message-ID: <159475.53270.qm@web83202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is for finals in BOTH Intermediate and advanced. ? Chuck --- On Fri, 7/31/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:27 PM How is the judging pool in Advanced self supporting if the intermediate flyers are done after day 3 and basically have no incentive to stay? I do not understand the logic? We need the intermediate guys for the judging pool. The way I see it you have to run 2 lines at site 4 on Friday to finish in a reasonable time. If a flyer refuses to judge the other class he will be passed up and the next guy in line will take his spot. I can't see any other way to assure enough bodies to judge. We do however have to allow for a break here and there to allow the judges some time to get there planes and minds ready to compete. Mike --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Charles Hochhalter wrote: > From: Charles Hochhalter > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 7:54 PM > Why cant the finalists from > advanced judge intermediate and vice versa. > ? > Seems it would work to me.. long day but worth it > cause they are in the FINALS. > ? > Chuck > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, michael s harrison > wrote: > > > From: michael s harrison > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 3:55 PM > > > > > > > > > The advanced, as I said in my initial > proposal is self supportive.? It does not require > recruiting additional judges per say.? It comes from > the intermediate pool and those that did not make the > finals. > Mike > ? > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Joe Lachowski > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:40 AM > To: NSRCA Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats > format > ? > I have not read everyones comments to > thoroughly to digest this. > ? > But, we already have a problem with getting judges for the > Masters and FAI finals already. Getting judges for the other > classes on top of that really makes it difficult. This years > Nats was a prime example, there was an imbalance of judges > district wise in the Masters finals. Don't know how FAI > panned out. > ? > Do we really need a finals for Intermediate and Advanced? > They get equal exposure already. If?there is a finals > for Advanced?and Intermediate, it really only needs to > be the top 5. I had the opportunity to judge?Advanced > this year and that is what I see from this experience. > Another option for Masters finals is top 8 with the the 8th > being determined by a one round sudden death flyoff between > numbers 8 through 11 or 12 at the end of day >? 3. > ? > Also,?for this to really?work properly, there is > a need for a pool of say, at least, 6 paid full time judges > available. Not to mention more volunteers? or paid > individuals for various other duties if there is a plan to > weigh every plane, etc. > ? > What really messed up this years Nats was the fact > that?no shows did not bother to contact Dave early > enough or at all?for him to fix judging assignments. No > shows?are what really screw things up for the contest > management. No shows screw up flight order exposure, create > an imbalance in?matrix seeding and sends contest > management scrambling to fill judging assignments vacated by > the no shows. We were short about 10? or so judges from > the FAI and Masters pool. This is the critical pool of > judges to make things work. This does not include the > Advanced and Intermediate no shows. This?all gets > amplified when there is a year with lower than usual >? attendance which this year was. > ? > > > > From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 07:29:38 -0500 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > ? > ? > > > From: > michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM > To: 'Don Ramsey' > Subject: nats format > ? > After considerable thought and reflection, I > would like to share my views of the nats and the classes > flown.? I believe we have been very fortunate to have > an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to > make the nats happen.? That group is led by the event > director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and > unselfishly for years at this job.? I believe he has > responded to our desires to make this the best national > event possible.? With that in mind, there are some > changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for > everyone and reduce the workload as well. > ? > They are: > 1.????? > Have a finals for advanced > a.????? > 8 finalists > b.????? > 3 rounds > c.????? > Judged by advanced or intermediate > judges(qualified volunteers) > d.????? > The site is open so it is not a space > issue > e.????? > 24 flights would take app 3 hours > f.?????? > Do on 4th day > g.????? > Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized > score > h.????? > Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner > 2.????? > Modify masters accordingly > a.????? > 3 round finals > b.????? > Count prelims as a 1000 normalized > score > c.????? > Count 3 of 4 for the winner > d.????? > 10 finalists > e.????? > 30 flights about 5.5 hours > 3.????? > Fai > a.????? > 3 rounds final > b.????? > F-11 flown 1 time > c.????? > Each unknown(1&2) flown once > d.????? > Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a > single 1000 normalized score > e.????? > Count 3 of 4 for the winner > f.?????? > 10 finalists > g.????? > 30 flights about 5.5 hours > ? > Rationale behind changes: > ? > Advanced > This would make for a very exciting and fun > event for the advanced class.? It would make the > 4th day a very real part of the nats for > them.? This format is totally self contained with no > additional personnel required.? It could be started and > finished before the masters and fai is done.? > ? > Masters > Masters is in a real sense an endurance > contest.? How many times does someone have to fly the > same sequence to prove he is the best in that class.? > The present system is 10 times!? The only argument is > the equal exposure issue-which may have merit.?? > The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less > time.? I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close > the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of > unequal exposure.? Counting the prelim as one of the 4 > scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having > been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of > variables.? Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal > exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that > concern.? Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can > be dropped.? > ? > FAI > The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is > that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not > equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that > conditions can change substantially over the course of doing > the semifinals.? This rationale wouldn?t apply at the > nats.? The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights > with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized > score.? Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to > be a score carried over into the finals event.? The > finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns.? > Count 3 of 4 scores. ??I would recommend doing the > F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns.? I believe all > the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown > by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a > showcase event.? > ? > To conclude: > ? > I believe this is a win-win for > everyone.? We would add finals to advanced; both the > Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots > would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; > fewer personnel to do the finals.? > There is no perfect system.? I am sure > there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this > system has real merit and should be implemented. > ? > Respectfully > Mike Harrison > ? > > > > Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Store, access, > and share your photos. See > how. > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcombs1947 at att.net Fri Jul 31 17:01:10 2009 From: jcombs1947 at att.net (Jerry Combs) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 01:01:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AMA in Muncie; Relocation; Advanced/Intermediate Finals; Etc..... References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com><821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><4A723044.6060208@cox.net><90959CA6C8B845D5AFA2CED4987AB530@glazecstp32xp><445540.82924.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><54f1efb30907311213g47d9fe95tee829e1d65014c5f@mail.gmail.com> <9CDE05C08554405B83A90E7F6096C244@Tony> Message-ID: <6AEC87A3C5174F7FAE8D558A2DF8A1EA@D4KBKQ71> Tony, I can remember a time when you had to have at least placed in a local contest before you could enter the NATS. It was this way in 1955 when I began competing in 1/2A free flight. Of course that was back when one joined AMA in order to compete. Jerry /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// That was one of the ideas that was brought to the table. The NATS is an open event, anyone can participate. It is time to think outside the box a little. What if ALL events were changed so that only Nationals Qualifiers are allowed to compete at the NATS? Then you would limit the participants and would really get the best of the best competing for a National Championship. I would argue that the term "National Champion" would take on new meaning! The problem is that the event is run by volunteers and that number would virtually disappear should this happen. Everyone attending would be working full time to win. This will create a whole new set of problems. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chad at f3acanada.org Fri Jul 31 18:19:47 2009 From: chad at f3acanada.org (Chad Northeast) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 02:19:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <4A73A63D.3090701@f3acanada.org> John, Its the same here in Canada, MAAC pays fees based on total membership, not competitors. The other organizations are basically only competitors so they avoid the high expense because of low numbers. Its the same discussions amongst the members here as it is there I am sure! Chad John Fuqua wrote: > Tony > Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the number of > AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones that go > to WCs or other FAI events. > > And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers dropping by? > Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for modeling > purposes?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > Bill: > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. Many VP's > have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about > competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership competes > officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we have to > pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent the USA in > FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition department at HQ > who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds to the > overall cost of AMA. > > > > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it with > other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate as 99% > of the membership does not want it... > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > Tony: > > I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that you're a > voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in this > hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-launch > gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed demos. > And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. > > But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, it seems > to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even belonging to the > AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can be handled > by other means.) > > Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. But, it > seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least check and > see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on sport > flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't > consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it during > October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) > > But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the Nationals; I'll > bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not to beat a > dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their > responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the various SIGS. > (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is that one of > the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is competition. In > fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or so I see > it. > > Bill Glaze > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tony > > To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > John: > It is a tough crowd!! LOL. > > > > Bill: > I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. > However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support > it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. > > > > The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up > and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS > does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > Tony, > > And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL > > > > John Pavlick > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > > > From: Bill Glaze > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM > > Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are > inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA > should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate > all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support > the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, > etc. as well as running the general association.) > > Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and > about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this > "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I > readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are > coming from further. > > Bill Glaze > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ed Alt > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > rg> > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) > The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why > are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a > flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about > the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have > exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM > To: NSRCA Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA > membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site > being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened > in length. > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the > future. > > > ________________________________ > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I > am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, > but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats > takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't > the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid > for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till > they see entry's decline. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: > > > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: " General pattern discussion " > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to > share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what > venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie > soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem > is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require > another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to > actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ________________________________ > > Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. > Check it out. > WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports> > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -- Chad www.chadnortheast.ca From jh102649 at speakeasy.net Fri Jul 31 20:34:32 2009 From: jh102649 at speakeasy.net (Jeff Hill) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 04:34:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <159475.53270.qm@web83202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <159475.53270.qm@web83202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: As someone who has been on the administrative side of a Pattern Nats, I favor a 10 pilot Masters finals. However, the one time I did it it was very unpopular--not with the pilots but with some of the judges. There was quite a lot of e-mail traffic back and forth so I took a poll of the judges that actually judged that day. Those in favor of a 10 pilot finals slightly outnumbered those opposed. But those opposed were very vociferous and carried the day with the NSRCA board. The next year we had 8 finalists and have ever since. I favor a final for Intermediate and Advanced because I think the Nats is really for the pilots. Getting as many flights by as many pilots as possible in a high quality, rule book event should be the goal. I also favor FAI run as an FAI event by the FAI rule book. That being said there are a few modifications to accommodate a US Nats but all in all, Dave has done a great job simulating an international FAI event. Jeff Hill