[NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll

Tue Jan 27 18:14:21 AKST 2009

Troy, 

My personal feeling is that you can talk this till you are blue in the face. None of us have any facts to back this up either way yet. Your thoughts are what ifs, just like any of ours. If we make the Kfactor free, like you want, we will end up with 1-200 members tops @ 20 a member.  And probably no advertisers.You are claiming 10 grand ahead with no advertisers. That's not reality if you make it free.  Maybe 2- 4 grand is. No different than where we are now. 
We have alot of people that only join the Nsrca to get a copy of the Kfactor. They may not even fly pattern, or have any desire. We don't make this magazine available at LHS's or maybe those people would not join and just buy the magazine there. Make it free, I can almost guarantee most will not renew. Only those that want to go for District Champion, attend the nats, or just plain want to support pattern will renew. 

Derek has stated this will go both ways, not one way. Those that want paper, will still get paper. Unless his mind gets changed, that's how it will be if this passes. I "would' like to see it happen, yes. If it helps the Nsrca. But on a temporary year long basis, or maybe two years. This way we can find out how many people do not renew. 

I will say this, if this does go to an online magazine only, I probably won't have the interest in editing it (which I'm sure doesn't hurt your feelings Troy). That should go to someone who likes online stuff. Someone who could take pride in an online magazine. I am fine with this, honestly. Anything that can better the Nsrca I am all for. Just an online magazine that will die out over time, I don't want to put my efforts and time into. Not being selfish here, just, I have a 5 year old girl that deserves any free time I have. And editing the Kfactor takes up alot of her time. But I have a passion for growing the Kfactor into a bigger magazine, with more advertisers, and someday having it on shelves at LHS's. 

To you Troy, you get nothing out of the Kfactor as you've been there, done that. To many people though, they do. I know this because I get a lot of emails of gratitude for what the Kfactor has become over the past 2 years. 

Troy, not trying to beat on you here, you are a member, and you have your right to try to make things change for the better. Nothing wrong with that. But you should break down the real costs before you put them in an email. Contact all the advertisers, see if they'll stick around. Contact all the members, see if they'll continue to pay their membership. This is a bigger thing than you make it out to be on your end. 

I'll tell you this, the meeting at the AMA show did some good. I came back and sent an email out about it to the officers, and I am passionate about finding out the real costs and see if it can be done. I don't think you will ever see it free to all though. I proposed a few dollar download fee.. But making free back issues available possibly every 3 or 4 months online for free could be done I'm thinking. 

Going to be interesting to see this ball keep rolling. I'm hoping it will be discussed at the board meeting in 3 or 4 weeks. Should be a hot topic.

Don't take this wrong, it's said in a mellow tone.

Chris          

--- On Tue, 1/27/09, Troy Newman <troy at troynewman.net> wrote:
From: Troy Newman <troy at troynewman.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 5:39 PM

Thank you for the information Ron 

This
speaks to the heart of the matter in my mind. From the February numbers the KF
cost the NSRCA $2976.21  On our best month of advertising from Derek's
post was November last year and we had $2100 in ads. 

That
means the KF costs us about $800 a month out of the treasury. Treasury money
comes from NATS, members’ dues and so on. 

So
we are paying approaching  10K a year (800+ a month for 12months) from the
NSRCA general funds to subsidize the KF in its printed form. 

Or
to put it in other terms we can all understand 250 members at $40 a
person dues to subsidize the KF 

What
is our total membership now aprox 500-600? ½ our membership funds are to fund
the KF. This is in addition to the needed advertising dollars. If those ad
dollars fall off the KF costs us that much more. 

I
would consider this a major financial concern for the organization. We all
enjoy our printed copy. However is it really worth this level of cost. As an
individual it’s easy to say well I paid my $40 I want my printed copy. As
a group I don’t think this a financially responsible answer. 

The
economy is in relatively poor shape. All model suppliers (read our advertisers)
are suffering the effects of this crunch. We are so concerned about keeping a
printed copy in place to keep these companies spending their advertising $ with
us. ..yet when a advertiser doesn't renew his ad  due to the economy we go
further into the membership general funds to keep the KF floating. How many ads
do we need? 

An
online only KF would still make a profit with little to no advertising money.
Today we are spending $2976 for this month.  My personal feeling is going all
online would be a benefit to our advertising partners. Making the KF free to
all would increase distribution. Increase NSRCA visibility, and give our
advertising partners more exposure for their dollar spent with us. To me this
is a very win-win situation for all involved. 

Personally
I can't see it getting much better. Even if the KF was 100% covered by the ads
which it is not.  

People
fear change. The reality is do we need to lose 1/3 of our current advertising
income before we really see the writing on the wall. Or do we proactively
change the way we are doing things in order to make this system better for
members, better for advertising, and better for the exposure of pattern to the
modeling world. 

Better
for the members we will have more money in the bank. Even with zero advertising
we will be 10K ahead each year. That’s if we lost all advertising. 

Better
for any advertisers we do have. The main supporters are going to stay with us.
They will have a larger exposure at a lower cost to them. 

Better
for pattern as anybody and everybody can get the KF for free from the Nsrca
download site. 

I’m
not beating a dead horse here. I just see the possibilities of thinking ahead,
and developing a better and more current method of communication. Other SIGS
are already doing this. 

They
got the same complaints when they started it, now they would not do it any
other way. My local clubs have done the same thing and have managed to provide
better funding for events, field improvements, and even fun fly events where
the club buys products for prizes instead of donations. I mean they had an
event that spent $2000-3000 on prizes and the entry fee for club members was
ZERO for the fun fly. This was a direct result of saving the postage on the
club news letter.  

By
the way the club news letter is now double the size, all in color and has
numerous ads from local Hobby shop owners. It has been a huge success over the
last 2 years. 

Troy
Newman 

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org on
behalf of Ron Davies

Sent: Tue 1/27/2009 10:23 AM

To: General pattern discussion

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll 

Jim
and any interested parties: 

There
is not a contract in place for printing the K-Factor. 

Postage
and printing is paid separately.   

Postage
for the February 2009 K-Factor is $602.41.  The January 2009 cost of the
K-Factor not including postage is $2,373.80.   

I
will provide you a cost break out of the K-Factor.  Please give me a few
days as my main computer with all the information is in the repair shop.   

Ron
Davies 

-----
Original Message -----  

From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA)  

To: General pattern discussion  

Sent: Tuesday, January 27,
2009 5:19 AM 

Subject: Re:
[NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll 

Hi Guys, 

Can someone please repost the K-Factor cost break out? 
Here are some questions I have about the publication: 

1.       Is
there a contract in place for printing the K-Factor (if so, who is the contract
with)? 

2.       Are
the postage and printing paid for separately, or lumped together? 

10,000 words were sent to the list regarding whether to go
digital or keep the hard copy, but I didn’t see the information
discussing the current cost structure. 

Thanks, 

Jim 

From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Woodward, Jim (US SSA)

Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 8:10 AM

To: General pattern discussion

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll 

It costs $2100/month to print and mail out the K-Factor the way
we do it now?   What is the primary cost driver, format or postage? 

Thanks, 

Jim 

From:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis
Bodary

Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 9:41 PM

To: General pattern discussion

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll 

  The poll did not include a 50/50 mix. I would'nt mind a
  bimonthly K-Factor and could live with an electronic version every other
  month. 

  Makes me wonder how much advertising might be lost on a
  all electronic version. 

  --- On Sat, 1/24/09, Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>
  wrote: 

  From: Derek Koopowitz
  <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>

  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll

  To: "'General pattern discussion'"
  <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

  Date: Saturday, January 24, 2009, 12:19 PM 
  It's a lot easier to allow for a "pull" of the K-Factor versus a"push" ofit... Pushing it means that we'd clock up the internet traffic lanes.  Youwill receive a reminder email that it is available.  -----Original Message-----From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jeff HattonSent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 9:01 AMTo: General pattern discussionSubject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll The electronic copy to download is good, but I would prefer at least areminder Email when a new one becomes available,  and the option to have itattached to the email would be even better.  Jay Marshall wrote:> You might want to upgrade your printer Ron. I have a 8 year old HP 970 > that prints both sides automatically. The real issue might be cost. > What would it cost in ink to print a complete K-Factor in color on my > printer vs the cost to have NSRCA print it? I
 can't carry my desktoptothe throne room.> > Jay Marshall> > -----Original Message-----> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van > Putte> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 11:42 AM> To: General pattern discussion> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll> > I like a paper copy, so I'd print it out to take it out to my hobby > shop or the "throne room".  It is against my Scottish backgroundto > just print out a file one side only.  I'd like to print both sides of > the paper.  If we decide to go with an electronic K-Factor only, it > would be nice to have the PDF files arranged so, if we had a 6-page K- > Factor, we could print out pages 1, 3, and 5, remove the sheets from > the printer, flip over the sheets, reinsert the pages in the printer> and print out pages 2, 4 and 6 on the back of the respective pages.   > I know I could do it one
 page at a time with what we have now, but, > with a 32-page K-Factor, that's a lot of shuffling around.> > Ron Van Putte> > On Jan 24, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:> >   >> Optional when one renews - if we can work out the pricing details on >> the paper only version.>> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski>> Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:11 AM>> To: NSRCA Discussion List>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll>> >> I guess having the option to choose which way you want it when you >> renew is out?>> >> I read it as an all or nothing kind of thing.>> >> >> >> From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:41:30 -0800>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Electronic versus Paper K-Factor Poll>> >> >> On the NSRCA website - http://www.nsrca.us - there is a poll
 that >> we'd like everyone to participate in.>> There are two options on the poll:>> 1.  NSRCA Membership with electronic K-Factor only 2.  NSRCA >> Membership with paper K-Factor The board would like to find out the >> level of interest of everyone (NSRCA members and others) as to >> whether they would prefer to receive their K-Factor electronically or >> whether they'd like to receive it as a paper copy (as it is done >> currently).  Pricing on each type of membership is unknown at this >> time, however, we believe that the electronic only membership would >> probably result in dues that are less than the paper K-Factor >> membership.>> Please pass this email on to others that may not be connected to this >> list - you do not have to be an NSRCA member to participate in this >> poll.>> >> HotmailR goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. See >> how.>> _______________________________________________>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list>>
 NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>>     > > _______________________________________________> NSRCA-discussion mailing list> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion> > _______________________________________________> NSRCA-discussion mailing list> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion>    _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 

_______________________________________________

NSRCA-discussion mailing list

NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org

http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 

_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20090128/c31e5220/attachment.html>