[NSRCA-discussion] AeroSlave Stuff
Gray E Fowler
gfowler at raytheon.com
Fri Jan 16 11:28:11 AKST 2009
Colin
Thanks for the input-what exactly is meant be "canard style??"
Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon
colin chariandy <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>
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01/16/2009 02:12 PM
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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] AeroSlave Stuff
Your mufflers are great, they perform well, are light and not bad looking
in my opinion.
Just make the gear light and durable....everyone will buy them after the
first users post the weight savings and rant about survivability after a
hard landing.
I think canard style with minimal sweep is the way to go.
Colin.
--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Gray E Fowler <gfowler at raytheon.com> wrote:
From: Gray E Fowler <gfowler at raytheon.com>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] AeroSlave Stuff
To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Received: Friday, January 16, 2009, 2:37 PM
John
We are aware of the cosmetic opinion with the muffler-actually one guy
returned it without using it for cosmetic reasons. In this day and age
when mufflers are totally hidden, it does not make sense to me that the
cosmetic appearance of an item that is never seen,is so important. Our
muffler is absolutely:
1. The lowest weight available
The standard muffler is 2.9 oz, our Ultralite is 2.3 oz
2. Lowest cost for a CF muffler
3. Very durable-molded in aluminum inlet-no burnout failures
All CF mufflers have a limited life-we honor our 1 year warranty
4. Best performance-highest RPM's regardless of engine-AND meet noise regs
5.. Are not the prettiest around
If I over molded the thickness and sanded down the body I could make'em
pretty. But that would add cost and weight.
Look at the list of "wants" about the landing gear that have been
generated. It is safe to say that the Pattern flyer wants...EVERYTHING.
Which is why this can be a scary market. Pattern flyers are tougher to
sell than the Airforce-you guys are worse than NavAIR! (inside industry
joke!!!-I apologize in advance). Unlike the muffler,we realize the the
gear will be seen all the time. Honestly, I am sorting through all this to
see if we want to do it at all. Knowing there is a large faction of
pattern flyers that value appearance above performance a sTHE dominating
criteria kind of disturbs me, as I am not of that mold. I even have local
friends that are this way. But there is hope-we have sold alot of
mufflers-barren as they are, and I have zero qualms about people buying
the other guy's product based solely on cosmetics-and that is what it is.
Anyone looking at the product based on price, weight and performance would
not make such a choice.
We realize the gear must look decent, the muffler's appearance is a
choice we made based on our priorities, knowing there was to be some
personal rejection, and that is okay. On landing gear...no matter what,
feel free to paint them!
Signed
AeroSlave Dude
At my real job...I better do some real work!
Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon
John Pavlick <jpavlick at idseng.com>
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01/16/2009 11:26 AM
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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Gray,
I will tell you this:
I use your pipes primarily due to the weight and performance advantages.
However, I know of a few instances where I've recommended them to others,
only to have the guy tell me that it was so ugly (the pipe) when he got it
that he decided to sell it and use something else. I guess it's a matter
of personal preference but that's something to keep in mind.
John Pavlick
--- On Fri, 1/16/09, Gray E Fowler <gfowler at raytheon.com> wrote:
From: Gray E Fowler <gfowler at raytheon.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 4:57 PM
If "swept" gear are preferred for the appearance, and impact form fit and
function, that is, there is a performace trade off to look cool, then all
who prioitize in such a manner will be unhappy with a gear set if we make
it. My priorties going forward will be:
1. Performance =stiffness, weight, twist- balanced by
2. Cost= material used, labor and cycle time
3. Cosmetics= need to look good BUT it is #3
If Cost were no issue We could make a gorgeous set of ultimate performing
gear, but cost is a large issue and if AeroSlave does not follow through
it will be because of cost. We must be able to cover our non reccurring
costs of engineering and especially molds which are very expensive. I am
always a bit hesitant with the pattern crowd and the need for the plane's
components to be prettier than the pilot or even his wife! I understand
paint finish and such but making a landing gear perfectly gorgeous when
scutinized up close may add $25 per set. Some will say this is a
requirement, some will not. This is what I am trying to figure out at the
moment. Lance and I have a big handle on the technical aspects, but things
like sweep, finish etc can kill this (from a business apsect) before we
get off the ground. Swept gear will require more molds =$$$. Almost
everyone cuts a single gear into a left and a right.
I do find all this input interesting, but Lance and I will have to figure
out how to proceed. This feedback about stiffness, bouncing, toe in etc is
great. We have prototypes performing very well, but now we need to
productionize the design.
Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon
"Keith Black" <tkeithblack at gmail.com>
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
01/15/2009 09:45 PM
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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Gray, the toe in twist issue on the ES gear was definitely an issue I ran
into, at least with the taller electric version. Also, on crosswind
landings if I didn’t straighten it out just right before touching down it
would start doing a sideways hoping action with the forward leg acting
like a spring. I think you may have seen this in Lubbock. This is the only
set of gear I’ve ever experienced this with. More ridged gear don’t seem
prone to this behavior.
As to straight vs. swept, straight may be easier to fabricate as a first
attempt to get something to market and would provide interchangeability.
On the other hand, if you dork one half of your gear you still have to buy
a whole new set and there’s not much you can do with the other half,
unless you have a habit of dorking gear. The swept look is most
definitely nicer. I’d go with what you think will sell the best, based on
sex appeal, and will be structurally sound. I wouldn’t worry about giving
the multiple gear dorkers the ability to use either half on either side.
Besides, multiple gear dorkers will help keep you in business. J
Keith
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Gray E
Fowler
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 4:57 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Anthony
What did you think about the ES gear twist? That is the wheel going toe
in- toe out hitting small bumps. ES had nothing but zero degree fibers.
That is the one design issue I am conteplating at the moment.
Also considering that all new planes are widebody that is what needs to be
addressed..BUT having a 1 continuous gear will be more weight. I am
thinking it is better to split the gear for a weight savings. If we make
two pieces, and either piece can be a left or a right, then a broken gear
is only on one side. Any advantage to that?
Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon
Anthony Romano <anthonyr105 at hotmail.com>
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
01/15/2009 04:18 PM
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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Graph Tech is not for us. I am sure their stuff is well suited for the
IMAC style planes that they are designed for but too heavy and way too
stiff for our use.
I went through their website and picked a gear based on dimension of the
ES. 2+ ounces heavier and twice as thick with zero flex. Broke the gear
out of my Black Magic many times when hitting small holes in the runway.
Rick donated his ES gear and life has been much better.
Anthony
From: jlachow at hotmail.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:59:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Anyone have any luck with the Graph Tech RC stuff? Only experience was
with some smaller electrics that worked just fine. They have carbon pants
and spinners, as well.
From: tony at radiosouthrc.com
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 15:00:23 -0500
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Thanks, Jim. Those are $112.00 I think… about double that of the Bolly….
Not sure how that will go….. but if there are no other choices…
Tony Stillman, President
Radio South, Inc.
139 Altama Connector, Box 322
Brunswick, GA 31525
1-800-962-7802
www.radiosouthrc.com
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Woodward,
Jim (US SSA)
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:52 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
Tony,
Luiz at Net Box Hobby carrys the CA carbon gear.
Thanks,
Jim
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 2:36 PM
To: 'General pattern discussion'
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] BOLLY out of business
I just received conformation that BOLLY has gone out of business.
Unfortunately, this is a major supplier of CF landing gear and wheel
pants. I have been awaiting a shipment of several items, and now it does
not look like that will happen. I am working now to determine if there
are any gear/wheel pants available.
The really bad thing is that I am not sure what options we have left,
other than going with a kit/arf manufacturer’s gear. Ed Skorpa dropped
his gear last year…
Tony Stillman, President
Radio South, Inc.
139 Altama Connector, Box 322
Brunswick, GA 31525
1-800-962-7802
www.radiosouthrc.com
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