[NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...wasArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem

Ron Van Putte vanputte at cox.net
Wed Feb 11 07:53:16 AKST 2009 

You shouldn't get too cerebral; some people might take offense.

Ron

On Feb 11, 2009, at 10:48 AM, <mjfrederick at cox.net> wrote:

> I hope you didn't take my comments too seriously.... Just having  
> fun, to each his own I say. If electric suits you, more power to ya  
> (you're gonna need it... HAHAHA j/k) I was hoping my paraphrasing  
> "Apocalypse Now" would have conveyed that.
>
> Matt
> ---- John Ferrell <johnferrell at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Ouch!
> I must have said that wrong!
> Other than the YS 120 SC, I have never had a YS engine I was not  
> happy with.
> The present problem at the moment is of a personal health issue. I  
> will
> continue to try to overcome that.
> Although I continue to dream of electric pattern I still don't have  
> any
> experience there!
>
> Rethinking the comment about too many YS engines I have to agree-  
> more is
> better. They store well and they don't take up much room. Properly  
> serviced
> they are easy to start and very reliable.
> John Ferrell  W8CCW
>
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
> nothing." -- Edmund Burke
> http://DixieNC.US
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthew Frederick" <mjfrederick at cox.net>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC
> ...wasArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem
>
>
>> I'm afraid I must take issue with two of your statements:
>> 1) I'm not afraid of electric, I just don't like it. Part of what  
>> I like
>> about the hobby is the engines, I love the smell of burning nitro  
>> in the
>> morning, smells like victory
>> 2) There's no such thing as too many YS engines to those who like  
>> them
>>
>> Matt
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Ferrell" <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:47 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was
>> ArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem
>>
>>
>>> It is an interesting question for sure...
>>> Can you think of any other form of aviation where empty weight is  
>>> more
>>> important that Gross or take off weight?
>>> Of course one cannot blame the IC fans for being afraid of electric
>>> technology.
>>>
>>> Personally, the bad news is that the new knee joints I had  
>>> installed last
>>> year are not permitting me to squat or kneel. It is tough to deal  
>>> with
>>> tending an IC powered airplane with that limitation.
>>> The good news is that electrics do not appear to require the  
>>> operator to
>>> squat/kneel.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately there remains the problem of recovering the  
>>> investment of
>>> too many YS engines and the accompanying airplanes...
>>>
>>> John Ferrell  W8CCW
>>>
>>> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
>>> nothing." -- Edmund Burke
>>> http://DixieNC.US
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
>>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 5:03 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was Arming
>>> Plug/ReceptacleProblem
>>>
>>>
>>>> I beg to differ.  The rules are already slanted to favor IC: the  
>>>> way  the
>>>> airplanes are weighed.  IC airplanes are weighed without fuel;   
>>>> electric
>>>> airplanes are weighed with fuel (batteries) and both may no   
>>>> more than 5
>>>> kilograms.  OMG, here we go again!
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:54 PM, James Oddino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I've been at this longer than most and have known from the   
>>>>> beginning
>>>>> that the propulsion system is the key to winning in  Pattern
>>>>> competition. It can also be the most frustrating due to   
>>>>> constantly
>>>>> changing conditions.  I found that the gas engines with  spark  
>>>>> ignition
>>>>> were a lot more consistent than glow and that  reduced the  
>>>>> frustration.
>>>>> I have more recently convinced myself  that electric is the least
>>>>> frustrating.  A few folks have gone back  to glow after playing  
>>>>> with
>>>>> electric to get more power for windy  conditions.  We are now  
>>>>> getting
>>>>> close to getting more than enough  out of electric systems (3  
>>>>> to 4 HP?)
>>>>> and when that happens we won't  have these discussions anymore.
>>>>> However, before that happens, the  rules will probably be  
>>>>> changed to
>>>>> favor IC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 12:39 PM, Jerry Voth wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been lurking for a long time and after reading all the  
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> that one needs to do to successfully fly electric, it makes one
>>>>>> wonder how things would be if electrics were the norm from the
>>>>>> beginning of powered R/C models. It might go like this;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey guys, I just bought this little IC engine and I tried it  
>>>>>> on  one
>>>>>> of my Pattern models and it works really well. "Look what it   
>>>>>> will do;
>>>>>> 1. It has just as much power as our electric motors.
>>>>>> 2. The only batteries you need are for the flight pack, glow   
>>>>>> igniter
>>>>>> and the electric starter if you don't like to flip by hand.
>>>>>> 3. All you have to do is pump fuel into the tank, spin the engine
>>>>>> with the starter and fly.The tail gets a little oily, but what  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> heck, it's fairly easy to clean up.(Switching the radio on  
>>>>>> first  is a
>>>>>> given.)
>>>>>> 4. You don't have to haul a generator or an extra car battery   
>>>>>> around
>>>>>> to charge motor batteries."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please don't take this the wrong way. It is tongue in cheek  
>>>>>> and  just
>>>>>> an observation. I also have too much time on my hands these   
>>>>>> days.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JJV
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall"
>>>>>> <lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca- 
>>>>>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:50 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A 100 ohm resistor may be enough to charge the caps and make  
>>>>>>> the ESC
>>>>>>> "active". Bad idea...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Marshall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf  
>>>>>>> Of  Ron
>>>>>>> Van Putte
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:14 PM
>>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good.  I will try it.  What wattage 100 ohm resistor?  Let's  
>>>>>>> see,
>>>>>>> doesn't sustained power equal voltage squared, divided by the
>>>>>>> resistance?  If so, 42 squared, divided by 100 is 17.64 watts.
>>>>>>> That's probably overkill, since the current surge is transitory.
>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>> about a 100 ohm, 10 watt resistor?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just thought of something:  With the 100 ohm resistor across the
>>>>>>> arming plug receptacle, won't the ESC be on whenever the  
>>>>>>> batteries
>>>>>>> are plugged into the circuit?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, what about Castle Creation's statement that the "spark  
>>>>>>> is your
>>>>>>> friend'?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ron
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:55 AM, James Oddino wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Put a 100 ohm resistor across the arming plug receptacle.   
>>>>>>>> Then the
>>>>>>>> capacitors in the ESC will charge without a spark as you  
>>>>>>>> connect
>>>>>>>> the batteries.  When you connect the arming plug, no spark.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 8:08 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a problem which I am sure many other E-powered airplane
>>>>>>>>> owners have that I'd like to solve.  I use an arming plug to
>>>>>>>>> connect the two 5S Lipo packs to the ESC.  On initial  
>>>>>>>>> contact of
>>>>>>>>> the arming plug with the receptacle, there's a big spark  
>>>>>>>>> thrown.
>>>>>>>>> Eventually the contacts on the arming plug and receptacle get
>>>>>>>>> burned to the point where the electrical contact is very bad.
>>>>>>>>> Yesterday I had to land my airplane deadstick because (I  
>>>>>>>>> think)
>>>>>>>>> the ESC saw what it thought was low voltage out of the battery
>>>>>>>>> that was actually due to the burned arming plug/receptacle
>>>>>>>>> contacts.  BTW, I am using high-amp Anderson Power Pole
>>>>>>>>> connectors, which are probably more susceptible to having the
>>>>>>>>> contacts burned than would Deans Ultra connectors.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have thought about putting a BIG capacitor in parallel  
>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>> arming plug, that would damp the initial current surge which
>>>>>>>>> causes the spark.  The capacitor could be removed before  
>>>>>>>>> flight.
>>>>>>>>> However, I'm wondering if there's a more elegant solution.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ron Van Putte
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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