[NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC...wasArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem

Wed Feb 11 07:32:32 AKST 2009

Are there any new theories about downwind turns? How about upwind turns?
What is the problem? "Just fly the dang plane".
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 7:43 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion]
Electric/IC...wasArmingPlug/ReceptacleProblem

Well, I am very sorry.  Please forgive me.  At least I haven't
mentioned the Downwind Turn.

Ron

On Feb 10, 2009, at 8:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:

> Geez Ron. Look what you started.. Don't you know by now that you
> can't talk about electrics??? Some people get their feelings hurt.
> The only place it's sort of allowed is in the Electric Pattern
> forum on RCU.
>
> I don't understand why it's such an issue anymore. Glow-Electric..
> Both are here to stay! Same planes, different motors.  Who cares?
> Not me!!!! Just fly the dang plane! And have fun doing it!!!! All
> this mumbo-jumbo is nonsense.  Fly what you like, but don't hate on
> someone else for flying what they like. If you are serious about
> competing, the scores are what matter in the long run. And if you
> are good enough, you will get them no matter what you fly. I'm
> pretty confident that the top guys could fly a Piper Cub and beat
> most of us. lol
>
> Matt, this isn't intended at you, your's is just the last email and
> I hit the reply button bro..
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 2/10/09, Matthew Frederick <mjfrederick at cox.net> wrote:
> From: Matthew Frederick <mjfrederick at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...wasArmingPlug/
> ReceptacleProblem
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 5:25 PM
>
> Hahaha... Maybe for those who don't know how to maintain their own
> engines... Me, I just choose not to loan money to the in-laws. I've
> been running 140 DZ's and FZ's for 3 years now with no problems
> whatsoever. I even assembled a complete 140 FZ at the field in 20
> minutes using spare parts a friend gave me... back-flipped to start
> on the very first try, runs like a top.
>
> Matt
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Keith Hoard
> To: General pattern discussion
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...wasArmingPlug/
> ReceptacleProblem
>
> I don't look at a YS engine as an investment . . . more like the
> "loan" you make to one of your in-laws who "promises" to pay you
> back . . .
>
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:54 PM, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
> wrote:
> Matt - I disagree with part of your statement #1.  I like electrics
> and I love the smell of burning nitro too.
>
> One of my fondest memories is going to contests up in Ohio,
> Michigan and Indiana with Don Lowe in his old Pontiac station
> wagon, which had the aroma of castor oil, that came from the fuel
> that had dripped on and seeped into the carpet in the back.
>
> I totally agree with #2.
>
> Ron
>
>
> On Feb 10, 2009, at 5:20 PM, Matthew Frederick wrote:
>
> I'm afraid I must take issue with two of your statements:
> 1) I'm not afraid of electric, I just don't like it. Part of what I
> like about the hobby is the engines, I love the smell of burning
> nitro in the morning, smells like victory
> 2) There's no such thing as too many YS engines to those who like them
>
> Matt
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ferrell"
> <johnferrell at earthlink.net>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 10:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was ArmingPlug/
> ReceptacleProblem
>
>
> It is an interesting question for sure...
> Can you think of any other form of aviation where empty weight is
> more important that Gross or take off weight?
> Of course one cannot blame the IC fans for being afraid of electric
> technology.
>
> Personally, the bad news is that the new knee joints I had
> installed last year are not permitting me to squat or kneel. It is
> tough to deal with tending an IC powered airplane with that
> limitation.
> The good news is that electrics do not appear to require the
> operator to squat/kneel.
>
> Unfortunately there remains the problem of recovering the
> investment of too many YS engines and the accompanying airplanes...
>
> John Ferrell  W8CCW
>
> "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
> do nothing." -- Edmund Burke
> http://DixieNC.US
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was Arming Plug/
> ReceptacleProblem
>
>
> I beg to differ.  The rules are already slanted to favor IC: the
> way  the airplanes are weighed.  IC airplanes are weighed without
> fuel;  electric airplanes are weighed with fuel (batteries) and
> both may no  more than 5 kilograms.  OMG, here we go again!
>
> Ron
>
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:54 PM, James Oddino wrote:
>
> I've been at this longer than most and have known from the
> beginning that the propulsion system is the key to winning in
> Pattern competition. It can also be the most frustrating due to
> constantly changing conditions.  I found that the gas engines with
> spark ignition were a lot more consistent than glow and that
> reduced the frustration. I have more recently convinced myself
> that electric is the least frustrating.  A few folks have gone
> back  to glow after playing with electric to get more power for
> windy  conditions.  We are now getting close to getting more than
> enough  out of electric systems (3 to 4 HP?) and when that happens
> we won't  have these discussions anymore. However, before that
> happens, the  rules will probably be changed to favor IC.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 12:39 PM, Jerry Voth wrote:
>
> I've been lurking for a long time and after reading all the things
> that one needs to do to successfully fly electric, it makes one
> wonder how things would be if electrics were the norm from the
> beginning of powered R/C models. It might go like this;
>
> Hey guys, I just bought this little IC engine and I tried it on
> one of my Pattern models and it works really well. "Look what it
> will do;
> 1. It has just as much power as our electric motors.
> 2. The only batteries you need are for the flight pack, glow
> igniter and the electric starter if you don't like to flip by hand.
> 3. All you have to do is pump fuel into the tank, spin the engine
> with the starter and fly.The tail gets a little oily, but what the
> heck, it's fairly easy to clean up.(Switching the radio on first
> is a given.)
> 4. You don't have to haul a generator or an extra car battery
> around to charge motor batteries."
>
> Please don't take this the wrong way. It is tongue in cheek and
> just an observation. I also have too much time on my hands these
> days.
>
> JJV
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall"
> <lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
> To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>
>
> A 100 ohm resistor may be enough to charge the caps and make the ESC
> "active". Bad idea...
>
> Jay Marshall
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of  Ron
> Van Putte
> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:14 PM
> To: General pattern discussion
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>
> Good.  I will try it.  What wattage 100 ohm resistor?  Let's see,
> doesn't sustained power equal voltage squared, divided by the
> resistance?  If so, 42 squared, divided by 100 is 17.64 watts.
> That's probably overkill, since the current surge is transitory.   How
> about a 100 ohm, 10 watt resistor?
>
> Just thought of something:  With the 100 ohm resistor across the
> arming plug receptacle, won't the ESC be on whenever the batteries
> are plugged into the circuit?
>
> BTW, what about Castle Creation's statement that the "spark is your
> friend'?
>
> Ron
>
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:55 AM, James Oddino wrote:
>
> Put a 100 ohm resistor across the arming plug receptacle.  Then the
> capacitors in the ESC will charge without a spark as you connect
> the batteries.  When you connect the arming plug, no spark.
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 8:08 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote:
>
> I have a problem which I am sure many other E-powered airplane
> owners have that I'd like to solve.  I use an arming plug to
> connect the two 5S Lipo packs to the ESC.  On initial contact of
> the arming plug with the receptacle, there's a big spark thrown.
> Eventually the contacts on the arming plug and receptacle get
> burned to the point where the electrical contact is very bad.
> Yesterday I had to land my airplane deadstick because (I think)
> the ESC saw what it thought was low voltage out of the battery
> that was actually due to the burned arming plug/receptacle
> contacts.  BTW, I am using high-amp Anderson Power Pole
> connectors, which are probably more susceptible to having the
> contacts burned than would Deans Ultra connectors.
>
> I have thought about putting a BIG capacitor in parallel with the
> arming plug, that would damp the initial current surge which
> causes the spark.  The capacitor could be removed before flight.
> However, I'm wondering if there's a more elegant solution.
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
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> --
>
> Keith Hoard
> Collierville, TN
> khoard at gmail.com
>
>
>
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