[NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was Arming Plug/ReceptacleProblem

Tue Feb 10 07:44:27 AKST 2009

It is an interesting question for sure...
Can you think of any other form of aviation where empty weight is more 
important that Gross or take off weight?
Of course one cannot blame the IC fans for being afraid of electric 
technology.

Personally, the bad news is that the new knee joints I had installed last 
year are not permitting me to squat or kneel. It is tough to deal with 
tending an IC powered airplane with that limitation.
The good news is that electrics do not appear to require the operator to 
squat/kneel.

Unfortunately there remains the problem of recovering the investment of too 
many YS engines and the accompanying airplanes...

John Ferrell  W8CCW

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do 
nothing." -- Edmund Burke
http://DixieNC.US

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Electric/IC ...was Arming 
Plug/ReceptacleProblem

>I beg to differ.  The rules are already slanted to favor IC: the way  the 
>airplanes are weighed.  IC airplanes are weighed without fuel;  electric 
>airplanes are weighed with fuel (batteries) and both may no  more than 5 
>kilograms.  OMG, here we go again!
>
> Ron
>
> On Feb 9, 2009, at 3:54 PM, James Oddino wrote:
>
>> I've been at this longer than most and have known from the  beginning 
>> that the propulsion system is the key to winning in  Pattern competition. 
>> It can also be the most frustrating due to  constantly changing 
>> conditions.  I found that the gas engines with  spark ignition were a lot 
>> more consistent than glow and that  reduced the frustration.  I have more 
>> recently convinced myself  that electric is the least frustrating.  A few 
>> folks have gone back  to glow after playing with electric to get more 
>> power for windy  conditions.  We are now getting close to getting more 
>> than enough  out of electric systems (3 to 4 HP?) and when that happens 
>> we won't  have these discussions anymore.  However, before that happens, 
>> the  rules will probably be changed to favor IC.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 12:39 PM, Jerry Voth wrote:
>>
>>> I've been lurking for a long time and after reading all the things  that 
>>> one needs to do to successfully fly electric, it makes one  wonder how 
>>> things would be if electrics were the norm from the  beginning of 
>>> powered R/C models. It might go like this;
>>>
>>> Hey guys, I just bought this little IC engine and I tried it on  one of 
>>> my Pattern models and it works really well. "Look what it  will do;
>>> 1. It has just as much power as our electric motors.
>>> 2. The only batteries you need are for the flight pack, glow  igniter 
>>> and the electric starter if you don't like to flip by hand.
>>> 3. All you have to do is pump fuel into the tank, spin the engine  with 
>>> the starter and fly.The tail gets a little oily, but what the  heck, 
>>> it's fairly easy to clean up.(Switching the radio on first  is a given.)
>>> 4. You don't have to haul a generator or an extra car battery  around to 
>>> charge motor batteries."
>>>
>>> Please don't take this the wrong way. It is tongue in cheek and  just an 
>>> observation. I also have too much time on my hands these  days.
>>>
>>> JJV
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall"  <lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
>>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>
>>>
>>>> A 100 ohm resistor may be enough to charge the caps and make the ESC
>>>> "active". Bad idea...
>>>>
>>>> Jay Marshall
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of  Ron Van 
>>>> Putte
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 1:14 PM
>>>> To: General pattern discussion
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Arming Plug/Receptacle Problem
>>>>
>>>> Good.  I will try it.  What wattage 100 ohm resistor?  Let's see,
>>>> doesn't sustained power equal voltage squared, divided by the
>>>> resistance?  If so, 42 squared, divided by 100 is 17.64 watts.
>>>> That's probably overkill, since the current surge is transitory.   How
>>>> about a 100 ohm, 10 watt resistor?
>>>>
>>>> Just thought of something:  With the 100 ohm resistor across the
>>>> arming plug receptacle, won't the ESC be on whenever the batteries
>>>> are plugged into the circuit?
>>>>
>>>> BTW, what about Castle Creation's statement that the "spark is your
>>>> friend'?
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:55 AM, James Oddino wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Put a 100 ohm resistor across the arming plug receptacle.  Then the
>>>>> capacitors in the ESC will charge without a spark as you connect
>>>>> the batteries.  When you connect the arming plug, no spark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 9, 2009, at 8:08 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a problem which I am sure many other E-powered airplane
>>>>>> owners have that I'd like to solve.  I use an arming plug to
>>>>>> connect the two 5S Lipo packs to the ESC.  On initial contact of
>>>>>> the arming plug with the receptacle, there's a big spark thrown.
>>>>>> Eventually the contacts on the arming plug and receptacle get
>>>>>> burned to the point where the electrical contact is very bad.
>>>>>> Yesterday I had to land my airplane deadstick because (I think)
>>>>>> the ESC saw what it thought was low voltage out of the battery
>>>>>> that was actually due to the burned arming plug/receptacle
>>>>>> contacts.  BTW, I am using high-amp Anderson Power Pole
>>>>>> connectors, which are probably more susceptible to having the
>>>>>> contacts burned than would Deans Ultra connectors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have thought about putting a BIG capacitor in parallel with the
>>>>>> arming plug, that would damp the initial current surge which
>>>>>> causes the spark.  The capacitor could be removed before flight.
>>>>>> However, I'm wondering if there's a more elegant solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ron Van Putte
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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