[NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
J N Hiller
jnhiller at earthlink.net
Tue Aug 4 08:51:05 AKDT 2009
OOps, I should have read all the posts first. Sorry
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of J N Hiller
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:37 AM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
Do some of these folks fly in more than one event?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of krishlan
fitzsimmons
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:39 PM
To: General pattern discussion
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
09SO - RC Soaring
Total Registrants - 146
Event # Name Open Senior Junior
441 HL Thermal Soaring 38 1 1
442 Thermal Soaring Two Meter 46 1 1
444 Thermal Soaring Unlimited 104 3 3
445 F3B Thermal Soaring 0 0 0
446 F3H Cross Country Soaring 0 0 0
456 F3J 45 2 0
460 RES Function (RES) 71 1 3
461 Nostalgia (NOS) 21 0 0
Chris
--- On Mon, 8/3/09, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:32 PM
Maybe Tony Stillman can tell us. I didn't see the number of
entrants posted for Soaring. Waiting for thermals is a personal problem; we
don't get to wait for less wind.
Ron VP
On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:05 PM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote:
> I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard
a guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is less
predictable
>
> MattK
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
> To: General pattern discussion
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
>
> Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day
was a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, they
took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see that the Nats
are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I noticed that R/C
Soaring has NINE days. What's with that?
>
> Ron VP
>
> On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:
>
> > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes
compared to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all
the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I >
took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I > won't
say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to > $200 and pay
someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a
few more days so that everyone gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has
to be done to make it fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok
the way it is, not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't
understand why people don't want > to make it better.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz
<derekkoopowitz at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > From: Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
> > To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM
> >
> > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone -
not just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the
majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we
> have today.
> >
> > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes -
I > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I >
don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity > to meet
everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my > judging duties
either... I view my judging assignment as an > essential part of attending
the Nats and look forward to it every > time. If someone is going to cheat
by replacing servos or whatever > just to make weight then shame on them...
perhaps Chad's solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but
that just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the
enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker
<jlkonn at hotmail.com> > wrote:
> > Not the point I was trying to make.
> > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below.
> > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and
place if > the procedure that has been in place were followed.
> > Respectfully,
> > JLK
> >
> > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700
> > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com
> >
> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
> >
> > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and
size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size
> and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it > and
enforcing it at the Nats?
> > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker
<jlkonn at hotmail.com> > wrote:
> > I have to agree with Chris.
> > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types
that > attend the Nats.
> > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social
aspects and > those that are trying to win.
> > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they
aren't > concerned about their plane
> > being overweight since they have no chance of making the
finals or > placing and are there for the fun.
> > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance
if > everyone gets weighed at checkin.
> > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed
and > enforced.
> > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the
innocent.
> > JLK
> >
> >
> >
> > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400
> > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com
> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
> >
> > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary
(not aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's
response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential winners and
> finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY > the
rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation > necessary. Why
weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when
they fail inspection. If they had applied the > existing rule, this
discussion would not be going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing
all at check in) is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we
really want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in
order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after
inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The
current way > has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT
> EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate > witch
hunt in response to what happened.
> >
> > Chris (the other one)
> >
> >
> > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:
> > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind?
> >
> > Just curious.
> >
> > Thx!
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca <dkrev at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> > From: dkrev at shaw.ca <dkrev at shaw.ca>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
> > To: "General pattern discussion"
<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM
> >
> > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just
saying :-)
> > Sent from Dave's Crackberry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>
> >
> > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25
> > To: 'General pattern
discussion'<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
> >
> >
> > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with
each > competitor as
> > well as airplanes.
> >
> > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can
load as > much
> > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed
max T.O. > Weight.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf
Of Derek
> > Koopowitz
> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM
> > To: General pattern discussion
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing
> >
> > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on
all items
> > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a
competitor really
> > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do
will stop > that.
> > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people
honest and > the fear
> > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall
<lightfoot at sc.rr.com> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will
really work.
> > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much
> opportunity to
> > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a
normally > removable
> > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do
we > "sticker" the
> > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for
> inspection and
> > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel
tanks can > also be
> > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions.
> >
> >
> >
> > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other
solutions.
> >
> >
> >
> > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area
immediately
> > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could
happen here and
> > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest.
> >
> >
> >
> > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a
battery
> > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could
change as
> > technology changes.
> >
> >
> >
> > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners
undergo a
> > teardown and inspection.
> >
> > Jay Marshall
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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