[NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing

Mon Aug 3 19:06:24 AKDT 2009

 I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is less predictable

MattK

-----Original Message-----

From: Ron Van Putte &lt;vanputte at cox.net&gt;

To: General pattern discussion &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;

Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm

Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing

    Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was a "rain day", just in case.  When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, they took away our rain day.  I was OK with that, BUT I don't see that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days.  What's with that??

?

  Ron VP?

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  On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:?

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  &gt; The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to &gt; what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the &gt; practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I &gt; took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I &gt; won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to &gt; $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some &gt; zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal &gt; exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. &gt; Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but &gt; ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want &gt; to make it better.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Chris?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

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  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz &lt;derekkoopowitz at gmail.com&gt; wrote:?

  &gt;?

  &gt; From: Derek Koopowitz &lt;derekkoopowitz at gmail.com&gt;?

  &gt; Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing?

  &gt; To: "General pattern discussion" &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;?

  &gt; Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just &gt; the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority &gt; of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we &gt; have today.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I &gt; think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I &gt; don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity &gt; to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my &gt; judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an &gt; essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every &gt; time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever &gt; just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution &gt; is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes &gt; the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed &gt; tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker &lt;jlkonn at hotmail.com&gt; &gt; wrote:?

  &gt; Not the point I was trying to make.?

  &gt; Please reread the last two sentences of my note below.?

  &gt; ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if &gt; the procedure that has been in place were followed.?

  &gt; Respectfully,?

  &gt; JLK?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700?

  &gt; From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com?

  &gt;?

  &gt; To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?

  &gt; Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? &gt; Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size &gt; and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it &gt; and enforcing it at the Nats??

  &gt; I don't buy it that attendance will diminish.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker &lt;jlkonn at hotmail.com&gt; &gt; wrote:?

  &gt; I have to agree with Chris.?

  &gt; As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that &gt; attend the Nats.?

  &gt; Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and &gt; those that are trying to win.?

  &gt; I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't &gt; concerned about their plane?

  &gt; being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or &gt; placing and are there for the fun.?

  &gt; I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if &gt; everyone gets weighed at checkin.?

  &gt; The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and &gt; enforced.?

  &gt; Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent.?

  &gt; JLK?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400?

  &gt; From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com?

  &gt; To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org?

  &gt; Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing?

  &gt;?

  &gt; I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed &gt; at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We &gt; go through the process of weighing the potential winners and &gt; finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY &gt; the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation &gt; necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never &gt; mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the &gt; existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement &gt; a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch &gt; of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody &gt; inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't &gt; change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is &gt; going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way &gt; has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT &gt; EXIS
 TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate &gt; witch hunt in response to what happened.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Chris (the other one)?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:?

  &gt; Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind??

  &gt;?

  &gt; Just curious.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Thx!?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Chris?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca &lt;dkrev at shaw.ca&gt; wrote:?

  &gt;?

  &gt; From: dkrev at shaw.ca &lt;dkrev at shaw.ca&gt;?

  &gt; Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing?

  &gt; To: "General pattern discussion" &lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;?

  &gt; Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM?

  &gt;?

  &gt; We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-)?

  &gt; Sent from Dave's Crackberry?

  &gt;?

  &gt; -----Original Message-----?

  &gt; From: John Fuqua &lt;johnfuqua at embarqmail.com&gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25?

  &gt; To: 'General pattern discussion'&lt;nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org&gt;?

  &gt; Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each &gt; competitor as?

  &gt; well as airplanes.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as &gt; much?

  &gt; fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. &gt; Weight.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; -----Original Message-----?

  &gt; From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org?

  &gt; [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek?

  &gt; Koopowitz?

  &gt; Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM?

  &gt; To: General pattern discussion?

  &gt; Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing?

  &gt;?

  &gt; I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items?

  &gt; including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really?

  &gt; wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop &gt; that.?

  &gt; I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and &gt; the fear?

  &gt; that if you do fail then you will be disqualified.?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall &lt;lightfoot at sc.rr.com&gt; &gt; wrote:?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

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  &gt;?

  &gt; I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work.?

  &gt; If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much &gt; opportunity to?

  &gt; change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally &gt; removable?

  &gt; item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we &gt; "sticker" the?

  &gt; battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for &gt; inspection and?

  &gt; that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can &gt; also be?

  &gt; under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions.?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions.?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately?

  &gt; before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and?

  &gt; shouldn't delay the flow of the contest.?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery?

  &gt; pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as?

  &gt; technology changes.?

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  &gt;?

  &gt;?

  &gt; As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a?

  &gt; teardown and inspection.?

  &gt;?

  &gt; Jay Marshall?

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  &gt; _______________________________________________?