From jferrell13 at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 1 07:13:08 2009 From: jferrell13 at triad.rr.com (John Ferrell) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:13:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><175053.47245.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <49607.92003.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Tony can put your Kraft on SS so I bet he can put your Knight Kit on SS as well! His column appers in RCReport online magazine at http://rcreport.net/ John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:36 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Does SS mean Solid State? I just put new tubes in my Knight Kit transmitter !!!! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Joe Lachowski To: NSRCA Discussion List Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36:13 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can?t send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible? The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows Live? Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jferrell13 at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 1 07:24:22 2009 From: jferrell13 at triad.rr.com (John Ferrell) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:24:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8E46@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2ABBDD13BEA2490398DBBD50C6A5E564@toshibauser> <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> <7C75E8182E0B4054BCEE42DDAA9248DB@WaynePC><4A7328B0.5000304@cox.net> <00f001ca1204$aba95190$02fbf4b0$@net> Message-ID: <6BD9A150018D47BDB3444C3148377B2F@xppro2> I think that happened to me at the Nats when I flew the wrong maneuver! John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Burton" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > What's the probability the zero was the correct score???????? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's > Email > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:24 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format > > Wayne Galligan wrote: >> Verne, >> >> What about the occasional 9-0-8.5 score >> >> ooops!!! Did I just open up a snap controversy? >> >> Wayne Galligan > This is was why there at least 2 or 3 judges, rounds are normalized and > low rounds dropped. It tends to smooth out the inconsistencies. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From jferrell13 at triad.rr.com Sat Aug 1 07:38:17 2009 From: jferrell13 at triad.rr.com (John Ferrell) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 15:38:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <802595.95022.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <599673A1A9E84CCEB645D1833F14677F@Tony> Message-ID: The video system marketed by Hobby Lobby is an example http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=858566 of an illegal intruder into the SS operation. The FCC is taking action but there are quite a few of these in operation. John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? There is nothing in the works to commit the entire site or the NATS to 2.4Ghz SS only. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 11:20 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Go from 72 to SS? Come on Joe, I can't handle this kind of change. I just got rid of my analog cell phone (the new digital one drops calls all the time - never happened with my old phone) and now I have to ride a bike that has no kick starter (5-speed Hog). Now you want me to "update" my toy airplane radio too? This is just too much! LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Joe Lachowski wrote: From: Joe Lachowski Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "NSRCA Discussion List" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 8:36 AM It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Windows LiveT Hotmail?: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sat Aug 1 09:39:12 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 17:39:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Temptation Throw ???? Message-ID: I picked up a Temptation and getting ready to set up. What are the proper throws and CG to start out with? This was purchased used and has been flying for a few seasons. Larry Diamond -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sat Aug 1 12:47:06 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 2009 20:47:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Temptation Throw ???? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <183382.93924.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Right from the original set of plans that came with my kit: CG - 7.4" or 188mm back from the leading edge of the wing at the root. I can't find any recommended throws on the plans anywhere but start with not enough and then add some. Better than too much and take away, if you survive the first flight :) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Lisa n Larry To: General Pattern Discussion Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2009 1:39:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Temptation Throw ???? I picked up a Temptation and getting ready to set up? What are the proper throws and CG to start out with? This was purchased used and has been flying for a few seasons? Larry Diamond -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Sat Aug 1 17:54:12 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:54:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been looking into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays more than all other countries! We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level 2's and German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less than the USA.... Not fair at all! The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to remember that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That helps to offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and setting up and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, Ice, etc... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Fuqua Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the number of AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones that go to WCs or other FAI events. And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers dropping by? Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for modeling purposes?? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Bill: I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. Many VP's have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership competes officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we have to pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent the USA in FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition department at HQ who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds to the overall cost of AMA. Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it with other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate as 99% of the membership does not want it... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony: I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that you're a voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in this hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-launch gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed demos. And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, it seems to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even belonging to the AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can be handled by other means.) Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. But, it seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least check and see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on sport flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it during October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the Nationals; I'll bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not to beat a dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the various SIGS. (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is that one of the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is competition. In fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or so I see it. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? John: It is a tough crowd!! LOL. Bill: I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does support it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The NATS does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when we can. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Tony, And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the AMA should limit their membership to only include those locals, and eliminate all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could support the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on the site, etc. as well as running the general association.) Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of where I am, I readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some others, who are coming from further. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Alt To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend practice. Why are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have access to a flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who cares about the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority have exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe Lachowski Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM To: NSRCA Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about other AMA membership complaining about the site not being available for their use. You would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the AMA site being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been shortened in length. If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. I've heard rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS only in the future. ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut costs. I am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, heresay, but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the nats takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. Wasn't the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we all paid for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. Wait till they see entry's decline. Chris --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: " General pattern discussion " Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite sports pics. Check it out. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Sat Aug 1 18:41:07 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 02:41:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> Message-ID: I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A. would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just tell the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that we need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to think again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, Japan and France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell the difference? Ron VP On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote: > Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been > looking > into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays > more > than all other countries! We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level > 2's and > German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less > than the > USA.... Not fair at all! > > The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to > remember > that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That > helps to > offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and > setting up > and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, > Ice, > etc... > > > > Tony Stillman, President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > Brunswick, GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Fuqua > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > Tony > Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the > number of > AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones > that go > to WCs or other FAI events. > > And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers > dropping by? > Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for > modeling > purposes?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > Bill: > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. > Many VP's > have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about > competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership > competes > officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we > have to > pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent > the USA in > FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition > department at HQ > who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds > to the > overall cost of AMA. > > > > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it > with > other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate > as 99% > of the membership does not want it... > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill > Glaze > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > Tony: > > I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that > you're a > voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in > this > hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand- > launch > gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed > demos. > And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. > > But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, > it seems > to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even > belonging to the > AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can > be handled > by other means.) > > Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. > But, it > seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least > check and > see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on > sport > flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't > consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it > during > October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) > > But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the > Nationals; I'll > bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not > to beat a > dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their > responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the > various SIGS. > (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is > that one of > the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is > competition. In > fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or > so I see > it. > > Bill Glaze > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tony > > To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > John: > It is a tough crowd!! LOL. > > > > Bill: > I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. > However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does > support > it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. > > > > The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up > and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The > NATS > does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when > we can. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Pavlick > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > Tony, > > And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL > > > > John Pavlick > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > > > From: Bill Glaze > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM > > Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are > inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the > AMA > should limit their membership to only include those locals, and > eliminate > all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could > support > the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on > the site, > etc. as well as running the general association.) > > Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and > about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this > "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of > where I am, I > readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some > others, who are > coming from further. > > Bill Glaze > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ed Alt > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) > The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend > practice. Why > are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have > access to a > flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who > cares about > the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority > have > exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Lachowski > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM > To: NSRCA Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about > other AMA > membership complaining about the site not being available for their > use. You > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the > AMA site > being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been > shortened > in length. > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. > I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS > only in the > future. > > > ________________________________ > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut > costs. I > am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, > heresay, > but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats > takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't > the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid > for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. > Wait till > they see entry's decline. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: > > > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > NATS to a 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each > group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: " General pattern discussion " > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to > share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what > venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. > Why tie > soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem > is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require > another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult to > actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ________________________________ > > Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite > sports pics. > Check it out. > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ > WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports> > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 2 04:11:34 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:11:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> Message-ID: <20090802121130.A8F151160F@bridi.netexpress.com> Ron, you have hit on the crucial questions!!!! At 10:41 PM 8/1/2009, you wrote: >I don't understand the problem.... What is the penalty if we don't >pay more than Germany, Japan and France? Will we get shafted by >the FAI? How could we tell the difference? > >Ron VP > >On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote: > >>Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been >>looking >>into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays >>more >>than all other countries! We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level >>2's and >>German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less >>than the >>USA.... Not fair at all! >> >>The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to >>remember >>that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That >>helps to >>offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and >>setting up >>and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, >>Ice, >>etc... >> >> >> >>Tony Stillman, President >>Radio South, Inc. >>139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >>Brunswick, GA 31525 >>1-800-962-7802 >>www.radiosouthrc.com >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >>Fuqua >>Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM >>To: 'General pattern discussion' >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >>Tony >>Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the >>number of >>AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones >>that go >>to WCs or other FAI events. >> >>And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers >>dropping by? >>Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for >>modeling >>purposes?? >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony >>Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM >>To: 'General pattern discussion' >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >>Bill: >>I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. >>Many VP's >>have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about >>competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership >>competes >>officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we >>have to >>pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent >>the USA in >>FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition >>department at HQ >>who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds >>to the >>overall cost of AMA. >> >> >> >>Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it >>with >>other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate >>as 99% >>of the membership does not want it... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Tony Stillman, President >> >>Radio South, Inc. >> >>139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >>Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >>1-800-962-7802 >> >>www.radiosouthrc.com >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill >>Glaze >>Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM >>To: General pattern discussion >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >> >> >>Tony: >> >>I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that >>you're a >>voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in >>this >>hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand- launch >>gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed >>demos. >>And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. >> >>But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, >>it seems >>to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even >>belonging to the >>AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can >>be handled >>by other means.) >> >>Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. >>But, it >>seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least >>check and >>see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on >>sport >>flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't >>consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it >>during >>October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) >> >>But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the >>Nationals; I'll >>bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not >>to beat a >>dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their >>responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the >>various SIGS. >>(No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is >>that one of >>the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is >>competition. In >>fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or >>so I see >>it. >> >>Bill Glaze >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Tony >> >> To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' >> >> >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >> >> >> John: >> It is a tough crowd!! LOL. >> >> >> >> Bill: >> I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. >>However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does >>support >>it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. >> >> >> >> The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up >>and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The >>NATS >>does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when >>we can. >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> >>________________________________ >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >>Pavlick >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >> >> >>Tony, >> >> And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL >> >> >> >>John Pavlick >> >>--- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: >> >> >> From: Bill Glaze >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM >> >> Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are >>inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the >>AMA >>should limit their membership to only include those locals, and >>eliminate >>all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could >>support >>the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on >>the site, >>etc. as well as running the general association.) >> >> Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and >>about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this >>"inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of >>where I am, I >>readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some >>others, who are >>coming from further. >> >> Bill Glaze >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Ed Alt >> >> >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>>discussion at lists.nsrca.o> rg> >> >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the >>Nats in 2010? >> >> >> >> I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) >>The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend >>practice. Why >>are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have >>access to a >>flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who >>cares about >>the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority >>have >>exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe >>Lachowski >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM >> To: NSRCA Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >> >> >>It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about >>other AMA >>membership complaining about the site not being available for their >>use. You >>would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the >>AMA site >>being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been >>shortened >>in length. >> >>If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. >>I've heard >>rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS >>only in the >>future. >> >> >>________________________________ >> >>Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 >>From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com >>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >>This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut >>costs. I >>am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, >>heresay, >>but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the >>nats >>takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. >>Wasn't >>the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we >>all paid >>for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. >>Wait till >>they see entry's decline. >> >>Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: >> >> >>From: Tony >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >>To: "'General pattern discussion'" >>Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM >> >>That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the >>NATS to a 2 >>week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are >>together, HQ >>can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each >>group >>would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't >>send a >>group of people to every site. >> >> >> >>Tony Stillman, President >> >>Radio South, Inc. >> >>139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >>Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >>1-800-962-7802 >> >>www.radiosouthrc.com >> >>________________________________ >> >>From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim >>Taylor >>Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM >>To: General pattern discussion >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> >> >> >>It was done, It was called NPAC >> >> >> >>Tim >> >>--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: >> >> >> From: Bill's Email >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >>2010? >> To: " General pattern discussion " >> >> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM >> >>Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not >>need to >>share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon >>knows what >>venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. >>Why tie >>soaring and FF together and so on?? >> >> >>Tony wrote: >> >>Matt: >>Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The >>problem >>is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >>require >>another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very >>difficult to >>actually find places that can handle this group. >> >> >> >> >> >>Tony Stillman, President >> >>Radio South, Inc. >> >>139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >>Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >>www.radiosouthrc.com >> >>________________________________ >> >> >> >> >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>discussion at lists.nsrca.o> rg> >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> >>Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite >>sports pics. >>Check it out. >>>ocid=TXT_TAGLM_> WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports> >> >>________________________________ >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>discussion at lists.nsrca.o> rg> >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Sun Aug 2 05:44:40 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:44:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp><02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5><08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> Message-ID: <8CBE18E72BEECF2-31C-3C5F@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> Nothing is ever this easy. The US is represented as a country at the FAI by the NAA, which is the National sporting body in the US for aero related activities. They represent all aero sports from model airplanes to hanggliding, and everything in between. As I understand it, a country can be represented to the FAI either by a National body such as the NAA, OR up to three associates, such as AMA and a hanggliding association. NAA would have to cease to exist, be expelled, or agree to only be an associate member for AMA to break out. I don't see that happening. How the FAI membership fee for the US is split up by the NAA affiliates (of which AMA is one), I don't know. Tony can probably get that answer. I do know that NAA is (or at least was) represented at the AMA executive council meetings. Here is a link on what can go wrong if countries don't have a single organization such as the NAA representing them: http://wingstaiwan.com/?p=155 Note: It would appear that Taiwan has fixed their FAI issues since the above link was written. Here are the member countries from the FAI website: http://www.fai.org/fai_members/ Countries air listed by type from 1 to 10, along with associate and temporary memberships. According to this website, the US appears to be the only level 1 country. There are a couple of level 2's, France and Germany. I couldn't find anything th at described how levels are determined. Links to the FAI constitution and bylaws are here: http://www.fai.org/documents/constitution They describe how countries are represented at the FAI. If AMA dropped out of the NAA representation to the FAI, we would no longer be able to compete in world championships. NSRCA is three steps removed from the FAI: NSRCA>AMA>NAA>FAI. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:41 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A. would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just tell the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that we need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to think again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, Japan and France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell the difference?? ? Ron VP? ? On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote:? ? > Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been > looking? > into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays > more? > than all other countries! =2 0We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level > 2's and? > German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less > than the? > USA.... Not fair at all!? >? > The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to > remember? > that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That > helps to? > offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and > setting up? > and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, > Ice,? > etc...? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? > Radio South, Inc.? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? > Brunswick, GA 31525? > 1-800-962-7802? > www.radiosouthrc.com? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Fuqua? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM? > To: 'General pattern discussion'? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? > Tony? > Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the > number of? > AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones > that go? > to WCs or other FAI events.? >? > And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers > dropping by?? > Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for > modeling? > purposes??? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM? > To: 'General pattern discussion'? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? > Bill:? > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. > Many VP's? > have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about? > competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership > competes? > officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we > have to? > pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent > the USA in? > FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition > department at HQ? > who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds > to the? > overall cost of AMA.? >? >? >? > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it > with? > other council mem bers that just see it as a cost we could eliminate > as 99%? > of the membership does not want it...? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www.radiosouthrc.com? >? > ________________________________? >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill > Glaze? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM? > To: General pattern discussion? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? >? >? > Tony:? >? > I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that > you're a? > voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in > this? > hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-> launch? > gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed > demos.? > And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name.? >? > But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, > =0 D it seems? > to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even > belonging to the? > AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can > be handled? > by other means.)? >? > Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. > But, it? > seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least > check and? > see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on > sport? > flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't? > consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it > during? > October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!)? >? > But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the > Nationals; I'll? > bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not > to beat a? > dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their? > responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the > various SIGS.? > (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is > that one of? > the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is > competition. In? > fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or > so I see? > it.? >? =0 A > Bill Glaze? >? > ----- Original Message -----? >? > From: Tony ? >? > To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion'? > ? >? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM? >? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? >? > >? > John:? > It is a tough crowd!! LOL.? >? > >? > Bill:? > I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end.? > However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does > support? > it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely.? >? > >? > The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up? > and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The > NATS? > does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when > we can.? >? > >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www. radiosouthrc.com? >? > > ________________________________? >? >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Pavlick? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM? > To: General pattern discussion? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? >? > >? > Tony,? >? > And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL? >? >? >? > John Pavlick? >? > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote:? >? > > From: Bill Glaze ? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? > To: "General pattern discussion" ? > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM? >? > Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are? > inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the > AMA? > should limit their membership to only include those locals, and > eliminate? > all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could > support? > the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. ( Upkeep on > the site,? > etc. as well as running the general association.)? >? > Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and? > about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this? > "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of > where I am, I? > readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some > others, who are? > coming from further.? >? > Bill Glaze? >? > ----- Original Message -----? >? > From: Ed Alt? > ? >? > To: 'General pattern discussion'? > discussion at lists.nsrca.o? > rg>? >? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM? >? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the? > Nats in 2010?? >? > >? > I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-)? > The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend > practice. Why? > are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have > access to a? > flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other wor ds, who > cares about? > the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority > have? > exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies.? >? > >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Lachowski? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM? > To: NSRCA Discussion List? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? >? > >? > It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about > other AMA? > membership complaining about the site not being available for their > use. You? > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the > AMA site? > being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been > shortened? > in length.? >? > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. > I've heard? > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS > only in the? > future.? >? >? > ________________________________? >? > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700? > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com? > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > Subjec t: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? > This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut > costs. I? > am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, > heresay,? > but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats? > takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't? > the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid? > for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. > Wait till? > they see entry's decline.? >? > Chris? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote:? >? >? > From: Tony ? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" ? > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM? >? > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > NATS to a 2? > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ? > can put all costs into one effort. I f they are all split up, Each > group? > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > send a? > group of people to every site.? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www.radiosouthrc.com? >? > ________________________________? >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor? > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM? > To: General pattern discussion? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? >? >? > It was done, It was called NPAC? >? >? >? > Tim? >? > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote:? >? > > From: Bill's Email ? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? > To: " General pattern discussion "? > ? > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM? >? > Why not allow the SIGS20to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to? > share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what? > venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. > Why tie? > soaring and FF together and so on??? >? >? > Tony wrote:? >? > Matt:? > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem? > is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require? > another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult to? > actually find places that can handle this group.? >? >? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www.radiosouthrc.com ? >? > ________________________________? >? >? >? >? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > discussion at lists.nsrca.o=C 2 > rg>? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > ? >? >? >? >? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > ? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > ? >? >? >? > ________________________________? >? > Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite > sports pics.? > Check it out.? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_? > WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports>? >? > ________________________________? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > discussion at lists.nsrca.o? > rg>? > http://lists.nsrca.org /mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > ? >? > >? > > ________________________________? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? ? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? From tony at radiosouthrc.com Sun Aug 2 13:23:48 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:23:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <8CBE18E72BEECF2-31C-3C5F@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp><02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5><08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> <8CBE18E72BEECF2-31C-3C5F@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7BD620E70E0F49FB884D6D04E719B10A@Tony> Jon: Thanks for jumping in with the links. The EC has even talked about leaving the FAI and working on starting a new international organization with it own world champs.... As I said, the FAI is much like the United Nations... USA has just as much say about how the FAI is run as we do the United Nations. Many on the EC are sick of it and want to try anything to get away from it... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:44 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Nothing is ever this easy. The US is represented as a country at the FAI by the NAA, which is the National sporting body in the US for aero related activities. They represent all aero sports from model airplanes to hanggliding, and everything in between. As I understand it, a country can be represented to the FAI either by a National body such as the NAA, OR up to three associates, such as AMA and a hanggliding association. NAA would have to cease to exist, be expelled, or agree to only be an associate member for AMA to break out. I don't see that happening. How the FAI membership fee for the US is split up by the NAA affiliates (of which AMA is one), I don't know. Tony can probably get that answer. I do know that NAA is (or at least was) represented at the AMA executive council meetings. Here is a link on what can go wrong if countries don't have a single organization such as the NAA representing them: http://wingstaiwan.com/?p=155 Note: It would appear that Taiwan has fixed their FAI issues since the above link was written. Here are the member countries from the FAI website: http://www.fai.org/fai_members/ Countries air listed by type from 1 to 10, along with associate and temporary memberships. According to this website, the US appears to be the only level 1 country. There are a couple of level 2's, France and Germany. I couldn't find anything th at described how levels are determined. Links to the FAI constitution and bylaws are here: http://www.fai.org/documents/constitution They describe how countries are represented at the FAI. If AMA dropped out of the NAA representation to the FAI, we would no longer be able to compete in world championships. NSRCA is three steps removed from the FAI: NSRCA>AMA>NAA>FAI. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:41 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A. would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just tell the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that we need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to think again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, Japan and France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell the difference?? ? Ron VP? ? On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote:? ? > Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been > looking? > into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays > more? > than all other countries! =2 0We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level > 2's and? > German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less > than the? > USA.... Not fair at all!? >? > The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to > remember? > that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That > helps to? > offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and > setting up? > and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, > Ice,? > etc...? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? > Radio South, Inc.? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? > Brunswick, GA 31525? > 1-800-962-7802? > www.radiosouthrc.com? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Fuqua? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM? > To: 'General pattern discussion'? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? > Tony? > Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the > number of? > AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones > that go? > to WCs or other FAI events.? >? > And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers > dropping by?? > Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for > modeling? > purposes??? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM? > To: 'General pattern discussion'? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? > Bill:? > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. > Many VP's? > have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about? > competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership > competes? > officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we > have to? > pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent > the USA in? > FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition > department at HQ? > who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds > to the? > overall cost of AMA.? >? >? >? > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it > with? > other council mem bers that just see it as a cost we could eliminate > as 99%? > of the membership does not want it...? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www.radiosouthrc.com? >? > ________________________________? >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill > Glaze? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM? > To: General pattern discussion? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? >? >? > Tony:? >? > I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that > you're a? > voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in > this? > hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-> launch? > gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed > demos.? > And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name.? >? > But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, > =0 D it seems? > to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even > belonging to the? > AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can > be handled? > by other means.)? >? > Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. > But, it? > seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least > check and? > see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on > sport? > flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't? > consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it > during? > October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!)? >? > But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the > Nationals; I'll? > bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not > to beat a? > dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their? > responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the > various SIGS.? > (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is > that one of? > the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is > competition. In? > fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or > so I see? > it.? >? =0 A > Bill Glaze? >? > ----- Original Message -----? >? > From: Tony ? >? > To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion'? > ? >? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM? >? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? >? > >? > John:? > It is a tough crowd!! LOL.? >? > >? > Bill:? > I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end.? > However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does > support? > it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely.? >? > >? > The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up? > and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The > NATS? > does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when > we can.? >? > >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www. radiosouthrc.com? >? > > ________________________________? >? >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Pavlick? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM? > To: General pattern discussion? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? >? > >? > Tony,? >? > And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL? >? >? >? > John Pavlick? >? > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote:? >? > > From: Bill Glaze ? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? > To: "General pattern discussion" ? > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM? >? > Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are? > inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the > AMA? > should limit their membership to only include those locals, and > eliminate? > all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could > support? > the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. ( Upkeep on > the site,? > etc. as well as running the general association.)? >? > Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and? > about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this? > "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of > where I am, I? > readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some > others, who are? > coming from further.? >? > Bill Glaze? >? > ----- Original Message -----? >? > From: Ed Alt? > ? >? > To: 'General pattern discussion'? > discussion at lists.nsrca.o? > rg>? >? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM? >? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the? > Nats in 2010?? >? > >? > I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-)? > The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend > practice. Why? > are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have > access to a? > flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other wor ds, who > cares about? > the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority > have? > exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies.? >? > >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Lachowski? > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM? > To: NSRCA Discussion List? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? >? > >? > It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about > other AMA? > membership complaining about the site not being available for their > use. You? > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the > AMA site? > being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been > shortened? > in length.? >? > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. > I've heard? > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS > only in the? > future.? >? >? > ________________________________? >? > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700? > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com? > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > Subjec t: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? > This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut > costs. I? > am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, > heresay,? > but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats? > takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't? > the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid? > for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. > Wait till? > they see entry's decline.? >? > Chris? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote:? >? >? > From: Tony ? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" ? > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM? >? > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > NATS to a 2? > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ? > can put all costs into one effort. I f they are all split up, Each > group? > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > send a? > group of people to every site.? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www.radiosouthrc.com? >? > ________________________________? >? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor? > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM? > To: General pattern discussion? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010?? >? >? >? > It was done, It was called NPAC? >? >? >? > Tim? >? > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote:? >? > > From: Bill's Email ? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in? > 2010?? > To: " General pattern discussion "? > ? > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM? >? > Why not allow the SIGS20to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to? > share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what? > venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. > Why tie? > soaring and FF together and so on??? >? >? > Tony wrote:? >? > Matt:? > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem? > is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require? > another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult to? > actually find places that can handle this group.? >? >? >? >? >? > Tony Stillman, President? >? > Radio South, Inc.? >? > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322? >? > Brunswick, GA 31525? >? > 1-800-962-7802? >? > www.radiosouthrc.com ? >? > ________________________________? >? >? >? >? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > discussion at lists.nsrca.o=C 2 > rg>? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > ? >? >? >? >? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > ? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > ? >? >? >? > ________________________________? >? > Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite > sports pics.? > Check it out.? > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_? > WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports>? >? > ________________________________? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > discussion at lists.nsrca.o? > rg>? > http://lists.nsrca.org /mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > ? >? > >? > > ________________________________? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? ? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tony at radiosouthrc.com Sun Aug 2 13:30:13 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 21:30:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp><02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5><08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> Message-ID: <90DACCBD4E7F4D5EA27882D6265B57BC@Tony> Ron: The EC is actually trying to find out how our USA fee is determined. We have been told it is based on our membership. Well, as 150K, we have the most, no doubt, but my point is that we should pay for competitors (less than 1500). If we have to create some form of competition membership in order to divide this out, then we need to do that. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:41 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A. would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just tell the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that we need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to think again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, Japan and France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell the difference? Ron VP On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote: > Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been > looking > into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays > more > than all other countries! We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level > 2's and > German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less > than the > USA.... Not fair at all! > > The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to > remember > that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That > helps to > offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and > setting up > and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, > Ice, > etc... > > > > Tony Stillman, President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > Brunswick, GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Fuqua > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > Tony > Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the > number of > AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones > that go > to WCs or other FAI events. > > And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers > dropping by? > Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for > modeling > purposes?? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > Bill: > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. > Many VP's > have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about > competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership > competes > officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we > have to > pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent > the USA in > FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition > department at HQ > who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds > to the > overall cost of AMA. > > > > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it > with > other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate > as 99% > of the membership does not want it... > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill > Glaze > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > Tony: > > I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that > you're a > voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in > this > hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand- > launch > gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed > demos. > And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. > > But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, > it seems > to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even > belonging to the > AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can > be handled > by other means.) > > Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. > But, it > seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least > check and > see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on > sport > flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't > consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it > during > October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) > > But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the > Nationals; I'll > bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not > to beat a > dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their > responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the > various SIGS. > (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is > that one of > the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is > competition. In > fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or > so I see > it. > > Bill Glaze > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Tony > > To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > John: > It is a tough crowd!! LOL. > > > > Bill: > I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. > However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does > support > it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. > > > > The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up > and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The > NATS > does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when > we can. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > ________________________________ > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > Pavlick > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > Tony, > > And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL > > > > John Pavlick > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > > > From: Bill Glaze > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM > > Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are > inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the > AMA > should limit their membership to only include those locals, and > eliminate > all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could > support > the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on > the site, > etc. as well as running the general association.) > > Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and > about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this > "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of > where I am, I > readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some > others, who are > coming from further. > > Bill Glaze > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Ed Alt > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in 2010? > > > > I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) > The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend > practice. Why > are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have > access to a > flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who > cares about > the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority > have > exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe > Lachowski > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM > To: NSRCA Discussion List > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about > other AMA > membership complaining about the site not being available for their > use. You > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the > AMA site > being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been > shortened > in length. > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. > I've heard > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS > only in the > future. > > > ________________________________ > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut > costs. I > am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, > heresay, > but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the > nats > takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. > Wasn't > the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > all paid > for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. > Wait till > they see entry's decline. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: > > > From: Tony > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > NATS to a 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each > group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: " General pattern discussion " > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to > share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what > venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. > Why tie > soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem > is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require > another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult to > actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ________________________________ > > Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite > sports pics. > Check it out. > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ > WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports> > > ________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlkonn at hotmail.com Sun Aug 2 15:09:46 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 23:09:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest Message-ID: Just got in from the first annual PRCM contest. It was great!!! Thanks to Bob Wilson and all the club members for hosting what I'm sure will become one of D5's best events! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 16:11:05 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:11:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Message-ID: <393002.20779.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Sun Aug 2 16:40:34 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:40:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <393002.20779.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <84DD4A16019B4177932F4CDAB2455654@jaysdesktop> See Don Ramsey's site. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 2 16:50:26 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 00:50:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? In-Reply-To: <7BD620E70E0F49FB884D6D04E719B10A@Tony> References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp> <02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> <8CBE18E72BEECF2-31C-3C5F@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> <7BD620E70E0F49FB884D6D04E719B10A@Tony> Message-ID: <20090803005026.7A61B115AB@bridi.netexpress.com> Good!!!!! At 05:23 PM 8/2/2009, you wrote: > >As I said, the FAI is much like the United Nations... USA has just as much >say about how the FAI is run as we do the United Nations. Many on the EC >are sick of it and want to try anything to get away from it... > >Tony Stillman, President >Radio South, Inc. >139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >Brunswick, GA 31525 >1-800-962-7802 >www.radiosouthrc.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe >Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:44 AM >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > >Nothing is ever this easy. The US is represented as a country at the >FAI by the NAA, which is the National sporting body in the US for aero >related activities. They represent all aero sports from model >airplanes to hanggliding, and everything in between. As I understand >it, a country can be represented to the FAI either by a National body >such as the NAA, OR up to three associates, such as AMA and a >hanggliding association. NAA would have to cease to exist, be >expelled, or agree to only be an associate member for AMA to break out. > I don't see that happening. How the FAI membership fee for the US is >split up by the NAA affiliates (of which AMA is one), I don't know. >Tony can probably get that answer. I do know that NAA is (or at least >was) represented at the AMA executive council meetings. > >Here is a link on what can go wrong if countries don't have a single >organization such as the NAA representing them: > >http://wingstaiwan.com/?p=155 > >Note: It would appear that Taiwan has fixed their FAI issues since the >above link was written. > >Here are the member countries from the FAI website: > >http://www.fai.org/fai_members/ > >Countries air listed by type from 1 to 10, along with associate and >temporary memberships. According to this website, the US appears to be >the only level 1 country. There are a couple of level 2's, France and >Germany. I couldn't find anything th >at described how levels are >determined. > >Links to the FAI constitution and bylaws are here: > >http://www.fai.org/documents/constitution > >They describe how countries are represented at the FAI. > >If AMA dropped out of the NAA representation to the FAI, we would no >longer be able to compete in world championships. NSRCA is three steps >removed from the FAI: NSRCA>AMA>NAA>FAI. > >Jon Lowe > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ronald Van Putte >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Sat, Aug 1, 2009 9:41 pm >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > > > > > > >I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A. >would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just tell >the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that we >need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to think >again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, Japan and >France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell the >difference? > > >Ron VP > > >On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote: > > > > Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been > >looking > > > into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays > >more > > > than all other countries! =2 >0We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level > >2's and > > > German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less > >than the > > > USA.... Not fair at all! > > > > > > The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to > >remember > > > that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That > >helps to > > > offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and > >setting up > > > and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, > >Ice, > > > etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > > Radio South, Inc. > > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > >Fuqua > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > >2010? > > > > > > Tony > > > Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the > >number of > > > AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones > >that go > > > to WCs or other FAI > events. > > > > > > And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers > >dropping by? > > > Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for > >modeling > > > purposes?? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > >2010? > > > > > > Bill: > > > I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. > >Many VP's > > > have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about > > > competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership > >competes > > > officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we > >have to > > > pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent > >the USA in > > > FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition > >department at HQ > > > who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds > >to the > > > overall cost of AMA. > > > > > > > > > > > > Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it > >with > > > other council mem >bers that just see it as a cost we could eliminate > >as 99% > > > of the membership does not want it... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > > > > > Radio South, Inc. > > > > > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > > > > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > > > > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > > > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill > >Glaze > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > >2010? > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony: > > > > > > I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that > >you're a > > > voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in > >this > > > hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand-> >launch > > > gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed > >demos. > > > And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. > > > > > > But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, > =0 >D >it seems > > > to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even > >belonging to the > > > AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can > >be handled > > > by other means.) > > > > > > Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. > >But, it > > > seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least > >check and > > > see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on > >sport > > > flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't > > > consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it > >during > > > October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) > > > > > > But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the > >Nationals; I'll > > > bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not > >to beat a > > > dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their > > > responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the > >various SIGS. > > > (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is > >that one of > > > the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is > competition. > In > > > fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or > >so I see > > > it. > > > >=0 >A > > Bill Glaze > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Tony > > > > > > To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > > > 2010? > > > > > > > > > > John: > > > It is a tough crowd!! LOL. > > > > > > > > > > Bill: > > > I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. > > > However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does > >support > > > it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. > > > > > > > > > > The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up > > > and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The > >NATS > > > does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when > >we can. > > > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > > > > > Radio South, Inc. > > > > > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > > > > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > > > > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > > > > www. >radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John > >Pavlick > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > > > 2010? > > > > > > > > > > Tony, > > > > > > And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL > > > > > > > > > > > > John Pavlick > > > > > > --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > > > 2010? > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM > > > > > > Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are > > > inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the > >AMA > > > should limit their membership to only include those locals, and > >eliminate > > > all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could > >support > > > the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. ( >Upkeep on > >the site, > > > etc. as well as running the general association.) > > > > > > Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and > > > about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this > > > "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of > >where I am, I > > > readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some > >others, who are > > > coming from further. > > > > > > Bill Glaze > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Ed Alt > > > > > > > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > >discussion at lists.nsrca.o > > > rg> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > > > Nats in 2010? > > > > > > > > > > I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) > > > The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend > >practice. Why > > > are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have > >access to a > > > flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other wor >ds, who > >cares about > > > the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority > >have > > > exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. > > > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe > >Lachowski > > > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM > > > To: NSRCA Discussion List > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > > > 2010? > > > > > > > > > > It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about > >other AMA > > > membership complaining about the site not being available for their > >use. You > > > would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the > >AMA site > > > being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been > >shortened > > > in length. > > > > > > If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. > >I've heard > > > rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS > >only in the > > > future. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 > > > From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > Subjec >t: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > >2010? > > > > > > This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut > >costs. I > > > am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, > >heresay, > > > but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the > >nats > > > takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. > >Wasn't > > > the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we > >all paid > > > for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. > >Wait till > > > they see entry's decline. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Tony > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > >2010? > > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM > > > > > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > >NATS to a 2 > > > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > >together, HQ > > > can put all costs into one effort. I >f they are all split up, Each > >group > > > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > >send a > > > group of people to every site. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > > > > > Radio South, Inc. > > > > > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > > > > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > > > > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > > > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim > >Taylor > > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > >2010? > > > > > > > > > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > > > > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bill's Email > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > > > 2010? > > > To: " General pattern discussion " > > > > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > > > > > Why not allow the SIGS20to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > >need to > > > share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > >knows what > > > venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. > >Why tie > > > soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > > > > > > > Tony wrote: > > > > > > Matt: > > > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > >problem > > > is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > >require > > > another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > >difficult to > > > actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > > > > > Radio South, Inc. > > > > > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > > > > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > > > > > 1-800-962-7802 > > > > > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > >discussion at lists.nsrca.o=C >2 > > > rg> > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite > >sports pics. > > > Check it out. > > > >ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ > > > WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports> > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > >discussion at lists.nsrca.o > > > rg> > > > http://lists.nsrca.org >/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > >_______________________________________________ > >NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 2 17:27:45 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 01:27:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? References: <661993.37855.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com><3FEEBDEE02524A75A267CF0076C4973A@glazecstp32xp><02a401ca122b$672ce690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5><08B42FC6043743458A409CD5C5B141F3@Tony> <90DACCBD4E7F4D5EA27882D6265B57BC@Tony> Message-ID: There's gotta be a way. Ron is right. Level the playing field. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > Ron: > The EC is actually trying to find out how our USA fee is determined. We > have been told it is based on our membership. Well, as 150K, we have the > most, no doubt, but my point is that we should pay for competitors (less > than 1500). If we have to create some form of competition membership in > order to divide this out, then we need to do that. > > > Tony Stillman, President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > Brunswick, GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van > Putte > Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 10:41 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > I don't understand the problem. How was it decided that the U.S.A. > would pay more than any other country? If it was us, we can just > tell the FAI that we changed our mind. If somebody else told us that > we need to pay more than any other country, we need to tell them to > think again. What is the penalty if we don't pay more than German, > Japan and France? Will we get shafted by the FAI? How could we tell > the difference? > > Ron VP > > On Aug 1, 2009, at 8:54 PM, Tony wrote: > >> Boy, would we LOVE to pay for only FAI stamp holders! We have been >> looking >> into ways to reduce our cost. Like the United Nations, the US pays >> more >> than all other countries! We are a LEVEL ONE, there are NO level >> 2's and >> German, Japan and France are the Level 3's. They pay MUCH less >> than the >> USA.... Not fair at all! >> >> The same income that comes from competitors.... zero. You have to >> remember >> that AMA HQ only gets a small percentage of your entry fee. That >> helps to >> offset the cost of having staff on site running the events and >> setting up >> and tearing down for events, putting up tents, renting golf carts, >> Ice, >> etc... >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> Radio South, Inc. >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> 1-800-962-7802 >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >> Fuqua >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 6:08 PM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> Tony >> Whatever happened to the idea that AMA should pay FAI based on the >> number of >> AMA members holding an FAI stamp. After all they are the only ones >> that go >> to WCs or other FAI events. >> >> And by the way. What income does AMA derive from sport flyers >> dropping by? >> Does anyone other than the competitors pay for use of the site for >> modeling >> purposes?? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:15 PM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> Bill: >> I had stated this several times before on this discussion group. >> Many VP's >> have lots of pressure from sport pilots that don't give a &%$* about >> competition. The facts are that less than 1% of the AMA membership >> competes >> officially in a sanctioned event. It become difficult as to why we >> have to >> pay FAI almost $100,000 each year just for the right to represent >> the USA in >> FAI events/planning! The cost of running the competition >> department at HQ >> who handles sanctions/rule books/FAI events and World Champs adds >> to the >> overall cost of AMA. >> >> >> >> Remember, I AM FOR COMPETITION! It is just difficult to debate it >> with >> other council members that just see it as a cost we could eliminate >> as 99% >> of the membership does not want it... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill >> Glaze >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:05 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> >> >> Tony: >> >> I am, (and I'm sure the rest of us agree on this) grateful that >> you're a >> voice on the council. I also recognize that demographics change in >> this >> hobby. I'm old enough to remember, (though faintly!) when hand- >> launch >> gliders were a very big part of the sport, as an example of changed >> demos. >> And, at one time, U-Control speed was a big name. >> >> But if those individuals on the council want to eliminate the Nats, >> it seems >> to me that they are eliminating a large incentive for even >> belonging to the >> AMA. (Leaving aside the insurance, for these purposes, which can >> be handled >> by other means.) >> >> Surely, it's only gentlemanly to accomodate others when possible. >> But, it >> seems to me that the others owe it to the rest of us to at least >> check and >> see what's going on in Muncie before they stake their vacation on >> sport >> flying a day or so there. (As an example.) For example; I wouldn't >> consider riding my Triumph(s) into Sturgis during August; I make it >> during >> October. (Weather's friendlier, anyway!) >> >> But, it's news to me that AMA people want to eliminate the >> Nationals; I'll >> bet it's news to a lot of the folks in this discussion. And, not >> to beat a >> dead horse, but seems to me that AMA has abrogated a lot of their >> responsibility for the Nats once they handed them over to the >> various SIGS. >> (No complaint from me on this one.) Still and all, my feeling is >> that one of >> the main reasons AMA exists, as has been mentioned, is >> competition. In >> fact, that was one of the reasons for their founding, in 1936. Or >> so I see >> it. >> >> Bill Glaze >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Tony >> >> To: jpavlick at idseng.com ; 'General pattern discussion' >> >> >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 1:29 PM >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> >> >> John: >> It is a tough crowd!! LOL. >> >> >> >> Bill: >> I am a big Competition fan and will support competition to the end. >> However, I am just about the only one left on the council that does >> support >> it. Many want the NATS eliminated completely. >> >> >> >> The NATS has 1st priority on field use. If a sport pilot drives up >> and wants to fly, they have to wait until competition is over. The >> NATS >> does not cave to sport pilots, but we should accommodate them when >> we can. >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John >> Pavlick >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:58 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> >> >> Tony, >> >> And you thought I was acting mean. Tough crowd here... LOL >> >> >> >> John Pavlick >> >> --- On Fri, 7/31/09, Bill Glaze wrote: >> >> >> From: Bill Glaze >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Friday, July 31, 2009, 12:48 PM >> >> Ed: I agree. If the AMA is going to cave to those locals who are >> inconvenienced by their not having access during Nats,, perhaps the >> AMA >> should limit their membership to only include those locals, and >> eliminate >> all other "outside" activities.. I'm sure that their numbers could >> support >> the entire AMA and all the peripherals. Yeah, Right. (Upkeep on >> the site, >> etc. as well as running the general association.) >> >> Inasmuch as my only inconvenience is a good-sized hotel bill, and >> about 1600 miles (total) on my vehicle, I guess elimination of this >> "inconvenience" (the Nats) would be an asset. And, because of >> where I am, I >> readily recognize my "inconvenience" is a lot less than some >> others, who are >> coming from further. >> >> Bill Glaze >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Ed Alt >> >> >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> > discussion at lists.nsrca.o >> rg> >> >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:47 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the >> Nats in 2010? >> >> >> >> I wish to register a complaint. What form do I sign? :-) >> The AMA site is inconveniently located for my normal weekend >> practice. Why >> are my dues supporting a tiny fraction of AMA membership to have >> access to a >> flying site that I can't drive to easily? In other words, who >> cares about >> the complaints of the locals. It's OUR site and the vocal minority >> have >> exclusive access for the rest of the year. Tough noogies. >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Joe >> Lachowski >> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:36 AM >> To: NSRCA Discussion List >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> >> >> It really isn't just about cutting costs either. It is also about >> other AMA >> membership complaining about the site not being available for their >> use. You >> would not believe the number of complaints AMA has had about the >> AMA site >> being tied up. That is why the overall Nats at the site has been >> shortened >> in length. >> >> If you are on 72, better plan on moving over to SS in the future. >> I've heard >> rumours that the AMA has been considering making the AMA site SS >> only in the >> future. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:57:16 -0700 >> From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> This is really funny. They want to bring the nats to 2 weeks to cut >> costs. I >> am sure they make money the way it is. Take this for what it is, >> heresay, >> but I heard that the members of the club were complaining that the >> nats >> takes too much of their time away from their field for them to fly. >> Wasn't >> the field built for a localized nats site? And I'm pretty sure we >> all paid >> for it. The ama will lose out if they go to a 2 weeks nats IMO. >> Wait till >> they see entry's decline. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Tony wrote: >> >> >> From: Tony >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:55 PM >> >> That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the >> NATS to a 2 >> week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are >> together, HQ >> can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each >> group >> would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't >> send a >> group of people to every site. >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim >> Taylor >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> >> >> It was done, It was called NPAC >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: >> >> >> From: Bill's Email >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> To: " General pattern discussion " >> >> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM >> >> Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not >> need to >> share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon >> knows what >> venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. >> Why tie >> soaring and FF together and so on?? >> >> >> Tony wrote: >> >> Matt: >> Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The >> problem >> is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >> require >> another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very >> difficult to >> actually find places that can handle this group. >> >> >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > discussion at lists.nsrca.o >> rg> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Windows LiveT HotmailR: Celebrate the moment with your favorite >> sports pics. >> Check it out. >> > ocid=TXT_TAGLM_ >> WL_QA_HM_sports_photos_072009&cat=sports> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > discussion at lists.nsrca.o >> rg> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From verne at twmi.rr.com Sun Aug 2 18:21:44 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:21:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <393002.20779.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <393002.20779.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001801ca13e1$221325d0$66397170$@rr.com> Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can't imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Sun Aug 2 19:27:52 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 03:27:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <001801ca13e1$221325d0$66397170$@rr.com> References: <393002.20779.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <001801ca13e1$221325d0$66397170$@rr.com> Message-ID: I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 20:04:01 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:04:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one.? I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM #yiv488806242 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv488806242 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? ? ? Rex ? From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', 'serif';} #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle19 {font-family:'Arial', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass .EC_MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv488806242 {} #yiv488806242 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 {} Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. ? Verne ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting ? Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Sun Aug 2 20:22:24 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:22:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 20:59:24 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 04:59:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <837066.34922.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Have you done it twice within one month though? And with one plane, that you did it with before the nats, flew the nats, and then did it again??? lol I win! haha? Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 9:22 PM #yiv445832866 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv445832866 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Chris ? Ouch!? Been there, done that! ? Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one.? I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? ? ? Rex ? From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass p.EC_EC_MsoNormal, #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass li.EC_EC_MsoNormal, #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass div.EC_EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', 'serif';} #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass a:link, #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass span.EC_EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass span.EC_EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass span.EC_EC_EmailStyle19 {font-family:'Arial', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass .EC_EC_MsoChpDefault {} #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass EC__filtered #EC_yiv488806242 {} #yiv445832866 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv488806242 .EC_ExternalClass div.EC_EC_Section1 {} Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. ? Verne ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting ? Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 21:01:00 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 05:01:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <944189.24012.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don't speed through Peoria though. They like to give tickets for going 72 (I was doing 85) in a 55 downtown! lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, John Konneker wrote: From: John Konneker Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest To: "Discussion List" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 4:09 PM #yiv700590095 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv700590095 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Just got in from the first annual PRCM contest. It was great!!! Thanks to Bob Wilson and all the club members for hosting what I'm sure will become one of D5's best events! JLK -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob at koolsoft.com Sun Aug 2 21:03:59 2009 From: rob at koolsoft.com (Robert L. Beaubien) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 05:03:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <837066.34922.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <837066.34922.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You sure you want to admit to that, Chris?? :-) You should blame it on 2.4Ghz instead!!!!!! - Robert Beaubien - NSRCA, District 7 Webmaster - "No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced." From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 9:59 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Have you done it twice within one month though? And with one plane, that you did it with before the nats, flew the nats, and then did it again? lol I win! haha Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 9:22 PM Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! ________________________________ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex ________________________________ From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joddino at socal.rr.com Sun Aug 2 21:45:00 2009 From: joddino at socal.rr.com (James Oddino) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 05:45:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <393002.20779.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <393002.20779.qm@web33001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <048CA8D4-521C-4D4B-A6D5-E9F3B56A139B@socal.rr.com> If I ever get to it, I will paint my Integral with lacquer from spray cans (Testors or Tamyia). I've done the bottom of one stab and it is extremely easy to get a near perfect job. It dries almost instantly and can be rubbed out if necessary. Another advantage of electric power. No fuel proofing required. Jim On Aug 2, 2009, at 5:11 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint > wings and stabs lightly. > > Thanks! > > Chris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 2 22:14:13 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (Chris Fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 06:14:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Message-ID: <266832.95898.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> There is no doubt in our minds. This happened a month ago and I admitted I forgot to charge the pack. I admitted I was too tired to charge it last night as I got home from work at11 pm on Friday. Was totally my fault again. I am one of the first tool admit a problem, was just my own fault again. Luke Peng checked the cells. 1 was 1.8, 1 was 2.1. On a 2 cell lipo, we all know this is really bad. C Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2009, at 10:03 PM, "Robert L. Beaubien" wrote: _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vicenterc at comcast.net Mon Aug 3 03:31:42 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:31:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest In-Reply-To: <944189.24012.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1439186455.8043981249299092695.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I agree 100% with JLK , the contest was great.? Thanks again to Bob Wilson and PRCM members.? They did a great jog in scheduling the rounds so I could come home early since took 7 hours drive to get back to Kansas City.? Best regards, Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: " krishlan fitzsimmons " To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 12:00:58 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest Don't speed through Peoria though. They like to give tickets for going 72 (I was doing 85) in a 55 downtown! lol Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, John Konneker < jlkonn @ hotmail .com> wrote: From: John Konneker < jlkonn @ hotmail .com> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest To: "Discussion List" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 4:09 PM Just got in from the first annual PRCM contest. It was great!!! Thanks to Bob Wilson and all the club members for hosting what I'm sure will become one of D5's best events! JLK ----- Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 03:37:28 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:37:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Chris, While we're telling stories on ourselves I did similar this weekend. The Peoria contest was my first with the new electric pattern plane. We had a rain delay on Saturday and planned to catch up on Sunday, which we did thanks to Bob Wilson. Anyway, I flew 2 rounds early Sunday then didn't expect to fly again until the afternoon. I was thinking I wanted to put a charged pack in the plane right away so I'd have one less thing to do in case I got in a hurry. Well... I didn't. But I thought I had! :-( Result was I barely limped back after aborting the reverse cuban in the Advanced sequence. I was lucky! By the way... I REALLY like the "E" plane!!! JLK Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 04:51:03 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:51:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest In-Reply-To: <1439186455.8043981249299092695.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <583805.32878.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Wow is all I can say. We gotta a keeper here and a future destination contest has been established. My personal top 10 of things I liked about the FAT LAKE CONTEST! #1 the field and the setting is beautiful. Nearly perfect! #2 It was very well organized. Bob Wilson and his friends wanted it to go right and they did their homework well. #3 the club members seemed to support and welcome the pattern fliers. They are an above average group of guys. #3 the local participation was very good with a lot of potential talent in the area being introduced to pattern. Now if we can get them to a few contests it'll complete the cycle. #4 one of the best saturday night bashes I have ever attended at a pattern contest. Our scorer Terry and his wife Barbera have a really neat house on the Illinois river ( Upper Lake Peoria) and the party was held on their deck overlooking the lake. Half kegger of PBR, Brats and a lot of great stories and playful ribbing. #5 a lot of guys from D5 and 2 from D4 who got it and drove some pretty decent distances to make sure the contest had the support it needed to make it viable. Thanks to all who came. You made it work. #6 Staying onsite for the first time in my pattern life in Rusty's camper. #7 waking up at 4:30 am Sunday, getting some coffee and flying foamies at the crack of dawn. #8 Shaky shaky..... It's an E. thing.... #9 Along with the Doctor finding out the Big Al's in downtown Peoria is not the diner from Happy Day's. Gotta get the word out to some of my friends about that place. Good thing I got to stay at Rusty's for free. #10 having to endure a significant rain delay on Saturday that kept us from flying until 2:30 and a long delay for a crop duster Sunday morning and still getting all 6 rounds in for 18 pilots. Thanks again PRCM. Mike Mueller --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: > From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 6:31 AM > #yiv816173875 p > {margin:0;}I > agree 100% with JLK, the contest was great.? Thanks > again to Bob Wilson and PRCM members.? They did a great > jog in scheduling the rounds so I could come home early > since took 7 hours drive to get back to Kansas City.? > > ? > Best regards, > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "krishlan fitzsimmons" > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 12:00:58 AM GMT -06:00 > US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest > > > > > > Don't speed through Peoria though. > They like to give tickets for going 72 (I was doing 85) in a > 55 downtown! lol > > > > Chris > ? > ? > ? > > --- On Sun, 8/2/09, John Konneker > wrote: > > > From: John Konneker > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Peoria PRCM contest > To: "Discussion List" > > Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 4:09 PM > > > > > #yiv816173875 #yiv700590095 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv816173875 #yiv700590095 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > Just got in from the first annual PRCM contest. > It was great!!! > Thanks to Bob Wilson and all the club members for hosting > what I'm sure will become one > of D5's best events! > JLK > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tony at radiosouthrc.com Mon Aug 3 06:04:31 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:04:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: References: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <829F5BF2F79148A3B43BDABA76B2D592@Tony> Rex: Yes, the PPG paint has gone up a bunch over the last 2 years.. I had it, but there is really nothing I can do about it but pass it along. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:22 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! _____ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex _____ From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can't imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 06:25:53 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:25:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <829F5BF2F79148A3B43BDABA76B2D592@Tony> Message-ID: <799749.43966.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I will probably end up getting it from you Tony. Probably just go with less colors. And end up covering the wings and stabs. I had a good feeling the price of it went up on their end. Thanks! Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:04 AM Rex: Yes, the PPG paint has gone up a bunch over the last 2 years?. I had it, but there is really nothing I can do about it but pass it along? ? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:22 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting ? Chris ? Ouch!? Been there, done that! ? Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one.? I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? ? ? Rex ? From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. ? Verne ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting ? Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burtona at atmc.net Mon Aug 3 06:52:33 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 14:52:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <799749.43966.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <829F5BF2F79148A3B43BDABA76B2D592@Tony> <799749.43966.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002d01ca144a$06d10ee0$14732ca0$@net> I?ve found the Klass-Kote epoxy enamels work just like the old K&B/Hobbypoxy paints of old and are a good bit cheaper than the Urethane automotive paints. You can even use any K&B components with the Klass-Kote components to use up any of the old stuff you have left. Doesn?t matter for electric but they are better fuel proof than automotive paints. http://www.klasskote.com/ Dave Burton From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:26 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I will probably end up getting it from you Tony. Probably just go with less colors. And end up covering the wings and stabs. I had a good feeling the price of it went up on their end. Thanks! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Tony wrote: From: Tony Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:04 AM Rex: Yes, the PPG paint has gone up a bunch over the last 2 years?. I had it, but there is really nothing I can do about it but pass it along? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:22 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! _____ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex _____ From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Mon Aug 3 08:06:46 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:06:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Message-ID: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schale at optonline.net Mon Aug 3 08:16:34 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:16:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: References: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A770D5D.2090306@optonline.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Mon Aug 3 08:23:43 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:23:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBE26DDAF6FF20-FB4-773@WEBMAIL-MC21.sysops.aol.com> ******************************************************************************************************? As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall ? ******************************************************************************************************* ? Just a question..... Is this done at model airplane Nationals and or WCs?? ? Or are you talking about full scale stuff?? ? MattK ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 3 08:26:59 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:26:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Message-ID: <806115.52374.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yup it will be more work to make this happen but hopefully we can come up with a good way to do it. Look on the bright side: all we have to be concerned about is weight and size. Imagine if we had to check the cam profile, bore and stroke, head cc's, rocker ratio, etc. ? LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Jay Marshall wrote: From: Jay Marshall Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:06 PM ? I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we ?sticker? the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. ? If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. ? Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn?t delay the flow of the contest. ? Another possibility is to adopt a ?standard? weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The ?standard? could change as technology changes. ? As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 3 08:27:51 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:27:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: <008201ca119c$8c275a00$a4760e00$@rr.com> Message-ID: Some things never change. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Verne Koester Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:06 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Welcome to the Nats. I've never been to one yet where there weren't some large discrepancies. I had one maneuver this year that was scored 5, 8, and 9. Don't dwell on it, it'll ruin your week, especially if you start wondering who was right. Verne -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Hansen Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:51 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I agree Mark, after seeing the scoring spread in Intermediate and Advanced (many 2+ point differentials between judges) I would have to say that including intermediate pilots in the judging pool for Advanced certainly would not hurt. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:48 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Ron, Do we know why so few Intermediate pilots were asked to judge? I realize that they're the "least experienced" per say, but we do ask them to get certified, so it's a little bit of a slap if we make them do that and then pass on their help. Also, per my previous message, many of them are not beginners and actually have a fair amount of judging experience. With 3 judge panels, it's a perfect time for them to get more experience since you can sprinkle them in amongst more seasoned judges. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 1:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Two minutes per airplane may result in a job five hours long. The other half of the equation is that assigning several pilots to do the job means that they wouldn't have to judge, depleting the judging pool. We had several individuals who did a LOT of judging this year. Dave Guerin was pulling his hair out, until the volunteers came up to offer to do extra judging sessions. Ron VP On Jul 30, 2009, at 12:01 PM, Archie Stafford wrote: > I think that part is easy. Dont give them a choice. It becomes part > of what is required. If everyone starts early it wouldnt be that > bad. Only takes a max of 2-3 minutes a plane. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jul 30, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> If all airplanes that compete will be weighed/measured on the day >> of checkin, there had better be a non-flying group to do the job. >> Competitors are not likely to be willing to spend the whole day >> weighing/measuring up to 150 airplanes (many pilots have backup >> airplanes) when they could be out practicing. >> >> Ron VP >> . >> On Jul 30, 2009, at 8:32 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >>> Mike, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for responding. The board discussed a lot of these ideas >>> the week after the Nats and we've been working on a list of stuff >>> that we're going to ask Dave to implement next year. Pretty much >>> what you've outlined below is in that list with some variations. >>> >>> >>> >>> We're also going to fully enforce weight/size on all planes that >>> compete - everyone will be weighed and measured on the day of >>> check-in - each plane will be "stickered" as they qualify and if >>> anyone fails to make weight or size then they'll have the whole >>> day on check-in day to make modifications but will need to be >>> weighed and measured again before the check-in period ends (and >>> pass) before they'll be allowed to fly. Random weight checks >>> will also be made throughout the event (random process to be >>> determined later). >>> >>> >>> >>> -Derek >>> >>> >>> >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >>> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison >>> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 5:30 AM >>> To: 'General pattern discussion' >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM >>> To: 'Don Ramsey' >>> Subject: nats format >>> >>> >>> >>> After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share >>> my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have >>> been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that >>> work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by >>> the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and >>> unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to >>> our desires to make this the best national event possible. With >>> that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that >>> would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. >>> >>> >>> >>> They are: >>> >>> 1. Have a finals for advanced >>> >>> a. 8 finalists >>> >>> b. 3 rounds >>> >>> c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified >>> volunteers) >>> >>> d. The site is open so it is not a space issue >>> >>> e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours >>> >>> f. Do on 4th day >>> >>> g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner >>> >>> 2. Modify masters accordingly >>> >>> a. 3 round finals >>> >>> b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score >>> >>> c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> d. 10 finalists >>> >>> e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> 3. Fai >>> >>> a. 3 rounds final >>> >>> b. F-11 flown 1 time >>> >>> c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once >>> >>> d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 >>> normalized score >>> >>> e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner >>> >>> f. 10 finalists >>> >>> g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours >>> >>> >>> >>> Rationale behind changes: >>> >>> >>> >>> Advanced >>> >>> This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the >>> advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of >>> the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no >>> additional personnel required. It could be started and finished >>> before the masters and fai is done. >>> >>> >>> >>> Masters >>> >>> Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times >>> does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the >>> best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only >>> argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The >>> system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I >>> raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that >>> someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. >>> Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a >>> legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 >>> days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring >>> (bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to >>> erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can >>> be dropped. >>> >>> >>> >>> FAI >>> >>> The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world >>> event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the >>> pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change >>> substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This >>> rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats >>> is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a >>> 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be >>> combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The >>> finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 >>> of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then >>> the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see >>> FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. >>> It would be a showcase event. >>> >>> >>> >>> To conclude: >>> >>> >>> >>> I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to >>> advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the >>> best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the >>> finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. >>> >>> There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections >>> of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should >>> be implemented. >>> >>> >>> >>> Respectfully >>> >>> Mike Harrison >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 07/30/09 05:58:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 3 08:51:29 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:51:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks Dave. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 7:50 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format Agree for FAI - part of the reason the F-09 is flown for the semi's and the 4 rounds are flown for the finals is because this is the system that will best prepare the FAI pilots for the WC. The level at which the F is flown by the top pilots often warrants a closer look for the top 8 (vs the top 20 in the semi finals). We all pay the same entry fee, so why is it some get to fly more than others? Valid question, not unlike why don't Intermediate, Sportsman, and Advanced get as much airtime per flight as Masters. I'd point out that in most competitive events, there are classes which are graded in experience (skill) required, the performance level/requirements of the equipment, and often the time needed to complete the event. It only makes sense that sequences get gradually more difficult, longer, and require higher performance equipment. F3A, being driven by the WC, has understandably reduced the sequence length due to time considerations at the WC. The structure of the flying at the NATs is to pick the best, and it is not the same for all classes because of the differences in the classes (one size does not fit all). Why is there a finals (and semi finals) for F3A at the US NATs? Several reasons - - With the often large number of pilots, several unequal conditions do or may exist - weather variations, site variations, and the matrix system may be used (which does not provide equal exposure amongst competing pilots). So the goal of the prelims is too make sure that those that have a reasonable shot at winning are included in the group that makes it out of the prelims (the actual placing of the pilots leaving the prelims is not the primary goal of the prelims) into the semifinals where the unequal conditions are eliminated/reduced (possible because of the smaller number of pilots in the semifinals). - the semifinals are used to ensure that all finalists are capable of flying the F sequence (this was added several years ago, based on experience, and as voted on by the FAI pilots - many of who realized adding the semifinals would reduce their personal flying time). - the finals are to pick the best of the best - the skill level in F3A at the US NATs is high enough that it is extremely difficult to distinguish the top pilots on the P schedule alone. Why is there a finals for Masters at the US NATs? - With the often large number of pilots, several unequal conditions do or may exist - weather variations, site variations, and the matrix system may be used (which does not provide equal exposure amongst competing pilots). So the goal of the prelims is too make sure that those that have a reasonable shot at winning are included in the group that makes it out of the prelims. - In the finals, all pilots fly within a small time window, and the chances of unequal conditions are greatly reduced, and it is much easier for a judge to accurately judge and rank 8 pilots. - The finals in Masters is often very close, with the winners capable of flying F3A P at a similar level. I believe Masters pilots are flying Masters, in part, because they don't want to be burdened by flying 2 schedules (F3A P and F) and unknowns. So, the Masters finals ends up being very close some years. - No scores from the prelims should be carried forward to the finals. The matrix system does not have equal exposure and does impart a degree of bias to the results. This bias is best left to the prelims, and not brought forward to the finals. Why is there not a finals in Intermediate and Advanced? - Because the first 6 rounds of flying occur within a relatively small window, at the same site, so the probability of unequal conditions (poor weather in part of a round) are greatly reduced. - the smaller number of flyers and reduced judging time increases the accuracy of pilot ranking for the group as a whole. - The majority of years, the depth of flying is not enough to warrant a finals for a "closer" look, and additional rounds are not going to change the result (unlike Masters and F3A where placings pretty routinely change). The added detail of the finals for Masters and semifinals/finals for F3A has everything to do with picking the best pilot out of larger groups with more pilot depth - in essence, a closer look is needed. It has nothing to do with screwing the Intermediate and Advanced pilots out of flying time, prestige, or glory. It has nothing to do with feeding the ego of the Masters or F3A pilots. So far as the banquet and awards ceremony (and announcement of semi finalists and finalists). It would be nice to have a large audience for the presentation of trophies/awards to all pilots for all classes, and for the announcement of semi finalists and finalists - BUT - the logistics just don' t support that. In the years I've attended the NATs, I've gotten my award at packed banquets, and in the middle of the field with a handful of people left. My suggestion would be hold the banquet when the largest turnout will occur, and let the awards/announcements fall where they may. Bias the banquet to give the crowds and glory to the Intermediate and Advanced pilots - more people have a better shot at getting a NATs award "on the way up" than they do in Masters or F3A (which are never attained by some). Regards, Dave Lockhart _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 8:54 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format I prefer to leave FAI alone and leave it as a 4 round finals. Besides, the rules state it to be flown this way. I do like the addition of the Advanced/Intermediate finals. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: michael s harrison To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: nats format From: michael s harrison [mailto:drmikedds at sbcglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 3:45 PM To: 'Don Ramsey' Subject: nats format After considerable thought and reflection, I would like to share my views of the nats and the classes flown. I believe we have been very fortunate to have an excellent group of volunteers that work and sacrifice to make the nats happen. That group is led by the event director Dave Guerin, who has worked tirelessly and unselfishly for years at this job. I believe he has responded to our desires to make this the best national event possible. With that in mind, there are some changes I believe we can make that would be a win-win for everyone and reduce the workload as well. They are: 1. Have a finals for advanced a. 8 finalists b. 3 rounds c. Judged by advanced or intermediate judges(qualified volunteers) d. The site is open so it is not a space issue e. 24 flights would take app 3 hours f. Do on 4th day g. Count the prelims as a 1000 normalized score h. Count 3 of 4 scores for the winner 2. Modify masters accordingly a. 3 round finals b. Count prelims as a 1000 normalized score c. Count 3 of 4 for the winner d. 10 finalists e. 30 flights about 5.5 hours 3. Fai a. 3 rounds final b. F-11 flown 1 time c. Each unknown(1&2) flown once d. Count the semi-final F-11 scores only as a single 1000 normalized score e. Count 3 of 4 for the winner f. 10 finalists g. 30 flights about 5.5 hours Rationale behind changes: Advanced This would make for a very exciting and fun event for the advanced class. It would make the 4th day a very real part of the nats for them. This format is totally self contained with no additional personnel required. It could be started and finished before the masters and fai is done. Masters Masters is in a real sense an endurance contest. How many times does someone have to fly the same sequence to prove he is the best in that class. The present system is 10 times! The only argument is the equal exposure issue-which may have merit. The system I propose addresses that issue and takes less time. I raised the number of finalists to 10 to close the argument that someone is cutout of the finals because of unequal exposure. Counting the prelim as one of the 4 scores is, in my opinion a legitimate score to keep-having been earned over a period of 3 days under a number of variables. Assuming incorrect scoring(bias, unequal exposure, etc.), the competitor has 3 flights to erase that concern. Any 3 flights count so the prelims score can be dropped. FAI The argument for doing 2 Finals pattern is that at the world event in the semifinals, there is not equal exposure of the pilots and the pool is so large that conditions can change substantially over the course of doing the semifinals. This rationale wouldn't apply at the nats. The semifinals at the nats is only 2 flights with 20 pilots, using the prelim score as a 1000 normalized score. Therefore, the 2 F patterns can be combined to be a score carried over into the finals event. The finals then becomes a single F pattern and 2 unknowns. Count 3 of 4 scores. I would recommend doing the F schedule first, then the 2 unknowns. I believe all the other pilots would love to see FAI unknown finals flown by some of the best pilots in the world. It would be a showcase event. To conclude: I believe this is a win-win for everyone. We would add finals to advanced; both the Masters and FAI finals would be shortened; the best pilots would be showcased; more pilots would be in the finals; fewer personnel to do the finals. There is no perfect system. I am sure there will be objections of some kind, but I believe this system has real merit and should be implemented. Respectfully Mike Harrison _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthonyr105 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 08:56:36 2009 From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com (Anthony Romano) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:56:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 09:10:36 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:10:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <829F5BF2F79148A3B43BDABA76B2D592@Tony> References: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <829F5BF2F79148A3B43BDABA76B2D592@Tony> Message-ID: I suggest you look into the KlassKote epoxy paints. Less expensive than PPG Concept or Omni and can be applied very light. It flows out nicely and with the exception of their Yellow and Insignia Blue, have very good opaqueness with one gloss coat after the initial tack coats. Ed From: tony at radiosouthrc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:04:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Rex: Yes, the PPG paint has gone up a bunch over the last 2 years?. I had it, but there is really nothing I can do about it but pass it along? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:22 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get your vacation photos on your phone! http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 3 09:14:21 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:14:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: References: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <829F5BF2F79148A3B43BDABA76B2D592@Tony> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EE1@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I would agree with Ed about the KlassKote paints (though I typically still use mostly PPG) but would advise against the KlassKote white primer which is fairly heavy compared to the PPG K-36 primer or K-2 primer. Yes you sand a lot of it off, but it's a heavy filler. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ed Alt Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I suggest you look into the KlassKote epoxy paints. Less expensive than PPG Concept or Omni and can be applied very light. It flows out nicely and with the exception of their Yellow and Insignia Blue, have very good opaqueness with one gloss coat after the initial tack coats. Ed ________________________________ From: tony at radiosouthrc.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 10:04:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Rex: Yes, the PPG paint has gone up a bunch over the last 2 years.... I had it, but there is really nothing I can do about it but pass it along... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:22 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! ________________________________ Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. [http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif] I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex ________________________________ From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can't imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get your vacation photos on your phone! Click here. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 09:37:11 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:37:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3454543c0908031037u25857fbaieba64d80cb8ab889@mail.gmail.com> I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the > plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change > things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can > be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we ?sticker? the battery > pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only > that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over > filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a > flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn?t > delay the flow of the contest. > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a ?standard? weight for a battery pack, > then weigh electric planes empty. The ?standard? could change as technology > changes. > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown > and inspection. > > *Jay Marshall* > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Mon Aug 3 09:43:37 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:43:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a?Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used?at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. ? Anthony ? ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing >Pattern out of time or space. ?It never failed. ?I am against it even >thought I liked to go see other events. ?We cannot do a first rate job when >we compete for runway space and days to fly. > >I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. ?Moving them around does not do >that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment >about reducing Nats costs. ?NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost >more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > >No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current >format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. >I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system >that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. ?At >least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather >exposure per round. > >John > > >-----Original Message----- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony >Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM >To: 'General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > >That is a possibility also. ?AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 >week all-events NATS like used to be done. ?If all events are together, HQ >can put all costs into one effort. ?If they are all split up, Each group >would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a >group of people to every site. > > > >Tony Stillman, President > >Radio South, Inc. > >139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > >Brunswick, GA ?31525 > >1-800-962-7802 > >www.radiosouthrc.com > >________________________________ > >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor >Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > >It was done, It was called NPAC > > > >Tim > >--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > >? ? ? ?From: Bill's Email >? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >2010? >? ? ? ?To: "General pattern discussion" >? ? ? ?Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > >? ? ? ?Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not >need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon >knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as >well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > >? ? ? ?Tony wrote: > >? ? ? ?Matt: >? ? ? ?Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. ?The >problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will >require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. ?It may be very difficult >to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > >? ? ? ?Tony Stillman, President > >? ? ? ?Radio South, Inc. > >139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > >Brunswick, GA ? 31525 > >?1-800-962-7802 > >www.radiosouthrc.com > > >________________________________ > > > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >rg> > >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 09:57:16 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:57:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908031057u58f66699g70ed7e711c23c8f5@mail.gmail.com> Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: > I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it > is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the > same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would > seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? > Mark > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Anthony Romano > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be > used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. > > Anthony > > ------------------------------ > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds > where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and > then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward > this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something > about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: > > Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing > Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even > thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when > we compete for runway space and days to fly. > > I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do > that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment > about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost > more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > > No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current > format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. > I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system > that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At > least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather > exposure per round. > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a > 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as > well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult > to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > < > http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > ------------------------------ > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 3 10:12:08 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:12:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908031057u58f66699g70ed7e711c23c8f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908031057u58f66699g70ed7e711c23c8f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two "weaker" (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won't have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases...people have to stay true to the "Goal". Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We're trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It's even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > wrote: From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Mon Aug 3 10:36:13 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:36:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908031037u25857fbaieba64d80cb8ab889@mail.gmail.com> References: <3454543c0908031037u25857fbaieba64d80cb8ab889@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <00cb01ca1469$2b8bbc20$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 10:37:59 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:37:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <00cb01ca1469$2b8bbc20$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <3454543c0908031037u25857fbaieba64d80cb8ab889@mail.gmail.com> <00cb01ca1469$2b8bbc20$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <3454543c0908031137m671eb784r9fd1b4600f686821@mail.gmail.com> Not a problem... On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 11:35 AM, John Fuqua wrote: > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor > as > well as airplanes. > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek > Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the > fear > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" > the > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > technology changes. > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > teardown and inspection. > > Jay Marshall > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 11:00:22 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:00:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <868006.13269.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.? In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand.? Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats.? In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other? knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak).? ? The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots.? Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats.? No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. ? In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?.? Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals.? We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys.?? Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. ? I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals.? That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals.? The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. ? It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys.? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well.? I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group?? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups.? I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. ? ? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ? From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a?Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used?at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. ? Anthony ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. ?It never failed. ?I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. ?We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. ?Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. ?NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. ?At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. ?AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. ?If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. ?If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ?31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: ? ? ? ?From: Bill's Email ? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? ? ? ?To: "General pattern discussion" ? ? ? ?Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM ? ? ? ?Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? ? ? ? ?Tony wrote: ? ? ? ?Matt: ? ? ? ?Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. ?The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. ?It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? ? ?Tony Stillman, President ? ? ? ?Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 3 11:01:37 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:01:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908031057u58f66699g70ed7e711c23c8f5@mail.gmail.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <003c01ca146c$cb973bb0$62c5b310$@net> I want to make 3 points. 1. Seeding is absolutely critical 2. There is no perfect system 3. There are very limited resources and personnel Seeding is the key to any worthwhile system. It is imperative that pilots are seeded at least thru the top ten. It will be rare indeed if somehow that didn't get the job done. All this is about the last couple of pilots making or not making the cut to the finals. Favorites or otherwise not making the cut happens in every kind of competition. No matter what system we design, there will be those that feel they were short changed. There is no perfect system, whether you choose the old system or Jerry's or anyone else's. I personally think the system in place is as good as any. No matter the system there is an element of good fortune involved for some and bad fortune for others. Increasing the pilot pool in the finals to 12 people is overbearing. That becomes 48 flights or more than 8 hours. The way it is presently done, that would be about a 12 hour day. That is absurdly long and impractical. If you look at what you have it could be changed to 10 pilots with 3 rounds in the finals and that would that about 5 hours actual flying time, maybe 6 hours total. About half the time. Also, 3 judging panels instead of 4. One less break. Less work for everyone. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:06 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two "weaker" (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won't have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases.people have to stay true to the "Goal". Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We're trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It's even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark _____ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org rg> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at rcfoamy.com Mon Aug 3 11:03:03 2009 From: scott at rcfoamy.com (scott anderson) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:03:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 Knoxville Contest Message-ID: <18FB5F8B32924C6FB69D77E7755A6D96@ScottPC> Please pre-register at sales at rcfoamy with Name,Class and channel.............. House Mountain Pattern Classic August 29 & 30, 2009, Knoxville, TN New Venue, Wide Open Spaces!! Field open for flying at noon on Friday CD: Scott Anderson (865) 712-1658 Asst: Mike Robinson (706) 463-3407 scott at rcfoamy.com shineyobject at gmail.com Pilots' Meeting 9:00am Saturday Entry fee is $30.00 Come Enjoy a More Relaxed Post-Nats Competition In Beautiful East Tennessee Scenery!! All AMA Classes & FAI schedule Contestant Judging Lunch available on-site Saturday Directions and motel information are on page 2 Directions to Field: Take the East Town Mall (Washington Pike) exit 8 off Interstate 640 (map below). Stay on Washington Pike for ~8 miles, past the intersection with Roberts Road (House Mountain convenience mart on the right). You're now less than a mile from the turn-in to the field, which will be on your left just past a horse stable/farm on the right. The satellite view, second below, shows Roberts Road, the horse farm and the flying site. GPS: N36 07.591, W83 47.641 Motels @ Exit 398 on I-40 east of Knoxville: Motel 6 (865) 633-6646 Econo Lodge Inn (865) 932-1217 LaQuinta (865) 633-5100 Best Western 865/544-7737 Hol.Day Inn Exp 865-5255100 Quality Inn East (865) 342-0003 These are all relatively new Motels - Motel 6 is a multi-story building, looks very New and clean, inside room entrance. This exit is closest to the field - maps >From this exit will be available -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 11:05:43 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:05:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <003c01ca146c$cb973bb0$62c5b310$@net> Message-ID: <453717.55062.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 2.????? There is no perfect system So equal exposure like FAI had isn't a perfect system? I think it worked perfect for them. And it was actually fast as they didn't have too many pilots. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, michael s harrison wrote: From: michael s harrison Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:01 PM I want to make 3 points.? 1.????? Seeding is absolutely critical 2.????? There is no perfect system 3.????? There are very limited resources and personnel ? Seeding is the key to any worthwhile system.? It is imperative that pilots are seeded at least thru the top ten.? It will be rare indeed if somehow that didn?t get the job done.? All this is about the last couple of pilots making or not making the cut to the finals.? Favorites or otherwise not making the cut happens in every kind of competition.? No matter what system we design, there will be those that feel they were short changed. ? There is no perfect system, whether you choose the old system or Jerry?s or anyone else?s.? I personally think the system in place is as good as any.? No matter the system there is an element of good fortune involved for some and bad fortune for others.? ? Increasing the pilot pool in the finals to 12 people is overbearing.? That becomes 48 flights or more than 8 hours.? The way it is presently done, that would be about a 12 hour day.? That is absurdly long and impractical.? If you look at what you have it could be changed to 10 pilots with 3 rounds in the finals and that would that about 5 hours actual flying time, maybe 6 hours total. About half the time. ?Also, 3 judging panels instead of 4.? One less break.? Less work for everyone.? ? ? ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:06 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? This is really the ONLY issue at hand.? Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats.? In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other? knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak).? ? The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots.? Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats.? No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. ? In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?.? Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals.? We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys.?? Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. ? I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals.? That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals.? The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. ? It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys.? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well.? I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group?? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups.? I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. ? ? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ? From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a?Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used?at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. ? Anthony ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. ?It never failed. ?I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. ?We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. ?Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. ?NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. ?At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. ?AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. ?If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. ?If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ?31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: ? ? ? ?From: Bill's Email ? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? ? ? ?To: "General pattern discussion" ? ? ? ?Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM ? ? ? ?Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? ? ? ? ?Tony wrote: ? ? ? ?Matt: ? ? ? ?Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. ?The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. ?It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? ? ?Tony Stillman, President ? ? ? ?Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 3 11:24:07 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:24:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <453717.55062.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <003c01ca146c$cb973bb0$62c5b310$@net> <453717.55062.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000601ca146f$f08c6aa0$d1a53fe0$@net> Of course, this is in reference to the existing Masters dilemma. Mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 2:06 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements 2. There is no perfect system So equal exposure like FAI had isn't a perfect system? I think it worked perfect for them. Image removed by sender.And it was actually fast as they didn't have too many pilots. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, michael s harrison wrote: From: michael s harrison Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:01 PM I want to make 3 points. 1. Seeding is absolutely critical 2. There is no perfect system 3. There are very limited resources and personnel Seeding is the key to any worthwhile system. It is imperative that pilots are seeded at least thru the top ten. It will be rare indeed if somehow that didn?t get the job done. All this is about the last couple of pilots making or not making the cut to the finals. Favorites or otherwise not making the cut happens in every kind of competition. No matter what system we design, there will be those that feel they were short changed. There is no perfect system, whether you choose the old system or Jerry?s or anyone else?s. I personally think the system in place is as good as any. No matter the system there is an element of good fortune involved for some and bad fortune for others. Increasing the pilot pool in the finals to 12 people is overbearing. That becomes 48 flights or more than 8 hours. The way it is presently done, that would be about a 12 hour day. That is absurdly long and impractical. If you look at what you have it could be changed to 10 pilots with 3 rounds in the finals and that would that about 5 hours actual flying time, maybe 6 hours total. About half the time. Also, 3 judging panels instead of 4. One less break. Less work for everyone. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:06 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark _____ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com < http://www.radiosouthrc.com/> ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org < http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o rg> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 3 11:29:22 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:29:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <453717.55062.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <003c01ca146c$cb973bb0$62c5b310$@net> <453717.55062.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EFB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> It?s not perfect in that it can only support a limited number of competitors with the other time constraints that are in place. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:06 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements 2. There is no perfect system So equal exposure like FAI had isn't a perfect system? I think it worked perfect for them. [http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif] And it was actually fast as they didn't have too many pilots. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, michael s harrison wrote: From: michael s harrison Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:01 PM I want to make 3 points. 1. Seeding is absolutely critical 2. There is no perfect system 3. There are very limited resources and personnel Seeding is the key to any worthwhile system. It is imperative that pilots are seeded at least thru the top ten. It will be rare indeed if somehow that didn?t get the job done. All this is about the last couple of pilots making or not making the cut to the finals. Favorites or otherwise not making the cut happens in every kind of competition. No matter what system we design, there will be those that feel they were short changed. There is no perfect system, whether you choose the old system or Jerry?s or anyone else?s. I personally think the system in place is as good as any. No matter the system there is an element of good fortune involved for some and bad fortune for others. Increasing the pilot pool in the finals to 12 people is overbearing. That becomes 48 flights or more than 8 hours. The way it is presently done, that would be about a 12 hour day. That is absurdly long and impractical. If you look at what you have it could be changed to 10 pilots with 3 rounds in the finals and that would that about 5 hours actual flying time, maybe 6 hours total. About half the time. Also, 3 judging panels instead of 4. One less break. Less work for everyone. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:06 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > wrote: From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dkrev at shaw.ca Mon Aug 3 11:33:11 2009 From: dkrev at shaw.ca (dkrev at shaw.ca) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:33:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <00cb01ca1469$2b8bbc20$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <3454543c0908031037u25857fbaieba64d80cb8ab889@mail.gmail.com><00cb01ca1469$2b8bbc20$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <2059688221-1249327988-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1443013845-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 3 11:34:55 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:34:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <868006.13269.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <868006.13269.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EFC@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> As someone who?s goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I understand your point completely. The problem is that all you?re really doing by changing systems is shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not usually get ?seeded? and can mess up the whole game (with regard to that 12th spot?not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut-off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. I?m not really sure what else can be done. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. [http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif] In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > wrote: From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Mon Aug 3 11:47:34 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:47:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EFC@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><868006.13269.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EFC@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <3C59B7F0A2194DB0B4EC5EE6C2E721DC@Tony> I would like to suggest something. Go to a semi-finals. Use the 4 mini-contest format, but only fly 4 total flights (4 rounds per contest). Take the top 5 from each of the 4 groups and fly a 3-round semi-finals. As an option you could even take 6 and fly a 2 round semi. Then take the top 8 into the finals. This helps take care of seeding "errors" and unranked pilots. Down side is that those that don't make the semi's are done after 2 days. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:29 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements As someone who's goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I understand your point completely. The problem is that all you're really doing by changing systems is shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not usually get "seeded" and can mess up the whole game (with regard to that 12th spot.not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut-off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we usually don't have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. I'm not really sure what else can be done. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two "weaker" (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won't have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases.people have to stay true to the "Goal". Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We're trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It's even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark _____ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com < http://www.radiosouthrc.com/> ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org < http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o rg> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:50:32 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:50:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <003c01ca146c$cb973bb0$62c5b310$@net> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net> <453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony> <016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> <3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908031057u58f66699g70ed7e711c23c8f5@mail.gmail.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <003c01ca146c$cb973bb0$62c5b310$@net> Message-ID: <3454543c0908031250l38608554g8164386afac39aaa@mail.gmail.com> Good points Mike... I would agree that there isn't a perfect system... but there is a better system. We should strive to improve the system with the resources that we have and within the constraints that we are dealt with. Running a 4 round Masters finals is not possible with 12 pilots. Again, not all the details have been flushed out but we could even do a cut (just like in golf) so that if the total of your 1st two rounds of finals is not within n% of 1st place then you don't continue, or even if you aren't in the top 6 after 2 rounds you don't advance - you're essentially finished with your finals flying. There are several different methods of paring down the initial list once the finals do start - the trick is finding the correct one (or best one). On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:01 PM, michael s harrison wrote: > I want to make 3 points. > > 1. Seeding is absolutely critical > > 2. There is no perfect system > > 3. There are very limited resources and personnel > > > > Seeding is the key to any worthwhile system. It is imperative that pilots > are seeded at least thru the top ten. It will be rare indeed if somehow > that didn?t get the job done. All this is about the last couple of pilots > making or not making the cut to the finals. Favorites or otherwise not > making the cut happens in every kind of competition. No matter what system > we design, there will be those that feel they were short changed. > > > > There is no perfect system, whether you choose the old system or Jerry?s or > anyone else?s. I personally think the system in place is as good as any. > No matter the system there is an element of good fortune involved for some > and bad fortune for others. > > > > Increasing the pilot pool in the finals to 12 people is overbearing. That > becomes 48 flights or more than 8 hours. The way it is presently done, that > would be about a 12 hour day. That is absurdly long and impractical. If > you look at what you have it could be changed to 10 pilots with 3 rounds in > the finals and that would that about 5 hours actual flying time, maybe 6 > hours total. About half the time. Also, 3 judging panels instead of 4. One > less break. Less work for everyone. > > > > > > > > > > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Atwood, Mark > *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2009 1:06 PM > > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to > both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being > honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly > against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups > who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in > this years case that was Arch and Frak). > > > > The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not > trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea > of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 > of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent > attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 > people that we have experience with. > > > > In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to > make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the > National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the > finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in > the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. > > > > I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 > place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the > finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. > > > > It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to > choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. > > > > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Derek Koopowitz > *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the > current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen > Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With > Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized > scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to > diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the > flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing > field for everyone. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: > > I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it > is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the > same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would > seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? > > Mark > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Anthony Romano > > > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be > used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. > > Anthony > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds > where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and > then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward > this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something > about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > wrote: > > Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing > Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even > thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when > we compete for runway space and days to fly. > > I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do > that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment > about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost > more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > > No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current > format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. > I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system > that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At > least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather > exposure per round. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a > 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as > well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult > to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > < > http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------ > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 > 05:57:00 > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 11:52:34 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:52:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EFC@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <829198.91080.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. Then why does anyone go to the nats. Shouldn't only the top flyers go? haha On another note, who fly's morning's next year. LMAO.. lol I'm starting to get a laugh out of the nats.. lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:28 PM As someone who?s goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I understand your point completely. ? The problem is that all you?re really doing by changing systems is shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not usually get ?seeded? and can mess up the whole game (with regard to that 12th spot?not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). ? Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut-off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. ? I?m not really sure what else can be done. ? ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.? In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand.? Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats.? In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other? knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak).? ? The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots.? Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats.? No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. ? In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?.? Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals.? We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys.?? Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. ? I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals.? That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals.? The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. ? It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys.? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well.? I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group?? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups.? I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. ? ? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ? From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a?Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used?at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. ? Anthony ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. ?It never failed. ?I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. ?We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. ?Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. ?NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. ?At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. ?AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. ?If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. ?If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ?31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: ? ? ? ?From: Bill's Email ? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? ? ? ?To: "General pattern discussion" ? ? ? ?Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM ? ? ? ?Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? ? ? ? ?Tony wrote: ? ? ? ?Matt: ? ? ? ?Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. ?The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. ?It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? ? ?Tony Stillman, President ? ? ? ?Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:54:38 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:54:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <868006.13269.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <868006.13269.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <010901ca1474$1f243970$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Jerry's approach to take the top 3 from each group has the Key Advantage that the pilots within each group have had equal judging exposure for each of the 6 flights. A situation that currently does not exist. But as already noted good group seeding is important. If you change to a 3 round finals you only add 4 total flights to a 12 man final (46) vs 8 man (32) so time does not become an issue. The problem with changing the matrix system is to come up with a system that uses contestant judges and be able to fly 40 or 50 contestants. Its HARD, VERY HARD. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 2:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two "weaker" (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won't have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases.people have to stay true to the "Goal". Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We're trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It's even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From johnfuqua at embarqmail.com Mon Aug 3 11:56:47 2009 From: johnfuqua at embarqmail.com (John Fuqua) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:56:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <010901ca1474$1f243970$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><868006.13269.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <010901ca1474$1f243970$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> Message-ID: <011601ca1474$6c601b00$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5> I hate typing typos. With 12 pilots and 3 rounds that is 36 total flights. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Fuqua Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 2:54 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Jerry's approach to take the top 3 from each group has the Key Advantage that the pilots within each group have had equal judging exposure for each of the 6 flights. A situation that currently does not exist. But as already noted good group seeding is important. If you change to a 3 round finals you only add 4 total flights to a 12 man final (46) vs 8 man (32) so time does not become an issue. The problem with changing the matrix system is to come up with a system that uses contestant judges and be able to fly 40 or 50 contestants. Its HARD, VERY HARD. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 2:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two "weaker" (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won't have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases.people have to stay true to the "Goal". Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We're trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It's even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Mon Aug 3 12:00:53 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:00:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4A71E10C.10304@cox.net><453278.67912.qm@web62303.mail.re1.yahoo.com><821DA1F8F9004293BD0578DFD5D63EF2@Tony><016101ca115e$79eec690$7101a8c0@ltm733c31251f5><3454543c0907301545n4f1800bepc4feade47c610a1b@mail.gmail.com> <263591.47597.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D64CE0E5387424C9CA7673FBCAE1B4A@davedesktop> Systems which are ideal (no bias) on paper can not always be implemented because of logistical considerations (time, resources, labor, etc). Additionally, systems that are ideal on paper are often more susceptible in practice to incurred bias (increased judging fatigue, changes in weather, etc). When a threshold number of entrants in a given class is not exceeded, the arrangement of two flight groups with rotating judges is preferred (ie, Intermediate and Advanced on Site 4, and F3A 2009 at Sites 1 and 3). For F3A 2009, there was still a bias as all pilots were not judged at the same flying site (and we all know flying sites 1 and 3 are not equal), but this bias was accepted as the lesser of two evils (the 2nd being doubling the needed flight time). The current matrix system has bias and is only preferred when the entrants (flight time) in Masters and FAI exceeds a threshold (and the Matrix system would be used if Advanced / Intermediate exceeded a threshold as well). The benefits of the matrix system are that it is quite efficient and versatile from the perspectives of time, resources, labor, judging fatigue, and changing weather. To realistically avoid using the matrix system (with a large number of pilots) would require fewer flights and longer judging stints. The seeding typically spreads the top 8 pilots equally among the 4 groups (#1 in A, #2 in B, #3 in C, #4 in D). Keep in mind that in years past the frequency distribution also needed to be considered when forming the groups (with 2.4, this is increasingly less of a concern), so ideal distribution of seeded pilots was not always possible. Assuming the pilots performed consistently with ranking, the bias to pilots seeded 4+ results in the following way - - Pilots in Group A must normalize all 6 prelim flights against the #1 seed (the eventual contest winner). - Pilots in Group B must normalize 2 prelim rounds against the #1 seed, and the remaining 4 prelim rounds against the #2 seed. - Pilots in the C and D groups must normalize 2 prelim rounds against the #1 seed, 2 prelim rounds against the #2 seed, and 2 rounds against the #3 seed. Accurate seeding does NOT eliminate and has little effect on the inherent bias of the matrix system. The inherent bias in the matrix system will exist unless the top 4 seeds (actually top 3 seeds because the 4 groups are always flying in pairs) fly equally and score (RAW scores) equally every round of the prelims. The difference in flight quality between the top 3 seeds will produce bias which, if great enough (and it is, based on review and analyses of historical NATs scores), will produce inaccuracies in the results (of the prelims). Inaccurate seeding can increase the bias, and the greater the difference between the flying quality of the top 3 seeds, the greater the bias imparted to the scores of pilots seeded 4+. The mini-contest suggestion has the same flaw at the same basic level as the matrix system - non equal exposure of pilots in the prelims, the bias of which can be magnified if the seeding is not accurate (or the ultimate performance of the seeded pilots is not as predicted due to no shows, equipment failure, having a bad day, etc). All systems will either include some inherent bias, and/or be more/less susceptible to the introduction of bias during the process (from judging float, changes in weather, differing flying sites, etc). Only the inherent bias can be eliminated (the others are random), and only when it is logistically feasible (increasingly difficult with increasing numbers of pilots). For a National Championship, the goal (my opinion) of any preliminary system should not be to determine an accurate ranking of the pilots going to the finals, but accurate in choosing the top 8 pilots for the finals. Inaccuracies in the ranking of pilots 8 and 9 (or even 7 thru 10, etc) may happen and may keep a deserving pilot out of the finals, but, it is not likely that the 7th or 10th ranked pilot is going to be the ultimate winner. At the end of the day, the system with the least amount of inherent bias, is the least susceptible to incurred bias, and is logistically feasible is the system that should be used. Keep in mind it is highly desireable to have a system that maintains equal exposure (or as close to it as possible) at all points during the contest - so winners can be announced if the contest is cut short by bad weather. In the past, I've gone through huge amounts of historical data to arrive at my conclusions/opinions. Part of the flaw / source for bias of any system using seeding is that the scores for each pilot are essentially determined based on a single data point (the highest raw score for the round). I think the inherent bias in the existing matrix system could be reduced (but not eliminated) if the flight rounds were normalized to the average raw score for the flight round - but I've not run numbers (and don't currently have time to do so) to verify or disprove this, and obviously allowances would have to be made for incomplete rounds (flameouts, midairs, etc). Oh, and for anyone interested in the matrix "bias" number I came up with for non-seeded flyer "X" finishing outside the top 8 - if flyer "X" is in Group A vs Group C or D, flyer "X" will average 14 normalized points lower per round. Take a look at historical NATs results, and see what 14 normalized points does for finish order in the prelims. And then try to find a system that is logistically feasible to handle 30+ pilots with less bias than the matrix system. Regards, Dave Lockhart DaveL322 at comcast.net _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:44 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark _____ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org rg> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Mon Aug 3 12:31:22 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:31:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Pattern contest Message-ID: I got a call from D3 AVP Gary Courtney the other day, and Gary has elected to use the O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest in Jacksonville, FL as the D3 District Champs for 2009. The sanction is in but it does not mention the District Champs. I will be getting the flier done this week and will make it available on the club website shortly after that. I will be happy to e-mail it to anyone on the group (just let me know) and will also be snail-mailing to our mailing list. The dates are September 26 & 27 with the field open for pattern practice all day on the 25th as well. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 12:32:50 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:32:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <2059688221-1249327988-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1443013845-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes.? That's the thing with glow.? Only dry weight counts.? You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight!? Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use.? If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: ????? ??? I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. ????? ??? If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. ????? ??? Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. ????? ??? Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. ????? ??? As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. ??? Jay Marshall ????? ??? _______________________________________________ ??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list ??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ??? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 3 12:38:45 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:38:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <829198.91080.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EFC@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <829198.91080.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F0A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I?d argue there are two groups of people that go to the nats. One group to try and win, the other to see their general placing and enjoy the social environment of a week playing with toy airplanes. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:53 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. Then why does anyone go to the nats. Shouldn't only the top flyers go? [http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif] haha On another note, who fly's morning's next year. LMAO.. lol [http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/04.gif] [http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/18.gif] I'm starting to get a laugh out of the nats.. lol Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:28 PM As someone who?s goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I understand your point completely. The problem is that all you?re really doing by changing systems is shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not usually get ?seeded? and can mess up the whole game (with regard to that 12th spot?not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut-off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. I?m not really sure what else can be done. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. [http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/03.gif] In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 12:50:13 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:50:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F0A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <487239.51097.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree Mark. 100%... I'm a try to win guy normally, but for my 1st and 2nd nats, the finals is good IMO as I haven't paid my dues, and am a nobody. I guess I'm just not used to not being judged equally. Something I will have to get used to if I want to continue to go to the nats. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 1:32 PM I?d argue there are two groups of people that go to the nats. One group to try and win, the other to see their general placing and enjoy the social environment of a week playing with toy airplanes. ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:53 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. Then why does anyone go to the nats. Shouldn't only the top flyers go? haha On another note, who fly's morning's next year. LMAO.. lol I'm starting to get a laugh out of the nats.. lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:28 PM As someone who?s goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I understand your point completely. ? The problem is that all you?re really doing by changing systems is shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not usually get ?seeded? and can mess up the whole game (with regard to that 12th spot?not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). ? Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut-off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. ? I?m not really sure what else can be done. ? ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.? In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand.? Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats.? In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other? knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak).? ? The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots.? Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats.? No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. ? In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?.? Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals.? We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys.?? Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. ? I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals.? That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals.? The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. ? It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys.? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well.? I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group?? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups.? I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. ? ? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ? From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a?Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used?at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. ? Anthony ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. ?It never failed. ?I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. ?We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. ?Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. ?NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. ?At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. ?AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. ?If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. ?If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ?31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: ? ? ? ?From: Bill's Email ? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? ? ? ?To: "General pattern discussion" ? ? ? ?Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM ? ? ? ?Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? ? ? ? ?Tony wrote: ? ? ? ?Matt: ? ? ? ?Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. ?The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. ?It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? ? ?Tony Stillman, President ? ? ? ?Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 3 13:27:19 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:27:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <487239.51097.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F0A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <487239.51097.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004201ca1481$263dc700$72b95500$@net> Everybody I judged was a somebody. I thought you flew very well and thought I scored you as such. 9th or 10th in that bunch was quite an achievement. It was the best Masters bunch I have ever seen. mike From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:50 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements I agree Mark. 100%... I'm a try to win guy normally, but for my 1st and 2nd nats, the finals is good IMO as I haven't paid my dues, and am a nobody. I guess I'm just not used to not being judged equally. Something I will have to get used to if I want to continue to go to the nats. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 1:32 PM I?d argue there are two groups of people that go to the nats. One group to try and win, the other to see their general placing and enjoy the social environment of a week playing with toy airplanes. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:53 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. Then why does anyone go to the nats. Shouldn't only the top flyers go? Image removed by sender.haha On another note, who fly's morning's next year. LMAO.. lol Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender. I'm starting to get a laugh out of the nats.. lol Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:28 PM As someone who?s goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I understand your point completely. The problem is that all you?re really doing by changing systems is shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not usually get ?seeded? and can mess up the whole game (with regard to that 12th spot?not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut-off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. I?m not really sure what else can be done. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. Image removed by sender. In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark _____ From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony _____ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com < http://www.radiosouthrc.com/> ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org < http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o rg> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 3 13:36:48 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:36:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <004201ca1481$263dc700$72b95500$@net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F0A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <487239.51097.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004201ca1481$263dc700$72b95500$@net> Message-ID: I think Greg Grigsby would agree. Greg won the Master class at the 1997 Nats. He placed about 25th this year and I thought he flew very well. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 4:27 PM, michael s harrison wrote: > Everybody I judged was a somebody. I thought you flew very well > and thought I scored you as such. 9th or 10th in that bunch was > quite an achievement. It was the best Masters bunch I have ever seen. > > mike > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:50 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > I agree Mark. 100%... > > I'm a try to win guy normally, but for my 1st and 2nd nats, the > finals is good IMO as I haven't paid my dues, and am a nobody. I > guess I'm just not used to not being judged equally. Something I > will have to get used to if I want to continue to go to the nats. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 1:32 PM > > I?d argue there are two groups of people that go to the nats. One > group to try and win, the other to see their general placing and > enjoy the social environment of a week playing with toy airplanes. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:53 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut- > off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning > make the finals. > > Then why does anyone go to the nats. Shouldn't only the top flyers > go? <~WRD000.jpg>haha > > On another note, who fly's morning's next year. LMAO.. lol > <~WRD000.jpg><~WRD000.jpg> > > I'm starting to get a laugh out of the nats.. lol > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:28 PM > > As someone who?s goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I > understand your point completely. > > > > The problem is that all you?re really doing by changing systems is > shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding > will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown > flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not > usually get ?seeded? and can mess up the whole game (with regard to > that 12th spot?not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). > > > > Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut- > off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we > usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the > top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. > > > > I?m not really sure what else can be done. > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. > An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew > excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. > The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, > like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it > isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's > great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be > judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local > contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious > contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front > of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other > judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My > guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system > doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome > have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But > I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal > exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a > finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. > > We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing > Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 > and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much > more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of > their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure > like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. > > Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to > make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me > at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national > champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are > battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th. <~WRD000.jpg> > > In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole > discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas > that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good > sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, > we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM > > This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes > vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no > bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one > another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some > of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always > normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case > that was Arch and Frak). > > > > The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least > not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in > contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes > that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best > assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the > nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have > experience with. > > > > In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is > really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re > trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place > guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of > ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well > judged event to choose the champion. > > > > I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the > 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only > taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates > that. > > > > It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure > format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the > top guys. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is > critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a > good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have > affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that > group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores > reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to > diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should > adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order > to level the playing field for everyone. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: > > I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but > initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better > exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current > matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more > critical in this scenario? > > Mark > > > > From: Anthony Romano > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could > be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. > > Anthony > > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 > rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 > straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the > finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does > not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there > isn't equal exposure there either. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > wrote: > > Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing > Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even > thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate > job when > we compete for runway space and days to fly. > > I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does > not do > that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent > comment > about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and > it cost > more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > > No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the > current > format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for > Masters. > I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the > Matrix system > that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round > finals. At > least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal > weather > exposure per round. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > NATS to a 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each > group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim > Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA > do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. > Pylon > knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own > thing as > well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible. The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and > will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult > to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 05:57:00 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 05:57:00 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 05:57:00 > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > <~WRD000.jpg> > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 13:42:41 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:42:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <004201ca1481$263dc700$72b95500$@net> Message-ID: <348867.31789.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Mike, and believe me, I am very happy with where I finished! Was an awesome experience again, and I know I can fly much better than I did (especially with my new E-motion). Hopefully masters can continue to have such great pilots! On to FAI next year I think. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, michael s harrison wrote: From: michael s harrison Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:27 PM Everybody I judged was a somebody. I thought you flew very well and thought I scored you as such. 9th or 10th in that bunch was quite an achievement. It was the best Masters bunch I have ever seen. mike ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:50 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? I agree Mark. 100%... I'm a try to win guy normally, but for my 1st and 2nd nats, the finals is good IMO as I haven't paid my dues, and am a nobody. I guess I'm just not used to not being judged equally. Something I will have to get used to if I want to continue to go to the nats. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 1:32 PM I?d argue there are two groups of people that go to the nats. One group to try and win, the other to see their general placing and enjoy the social environment of a week playing with toy airplanes. ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:53 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. Then why does anyone go to the nats. Shouldn't only the top flyers go? haha On another note, who fly's morning's next year. LMAO.. lol I'm starting to get a laugh out of the nats.. lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:28 PM As someone who?s goal this year was to make the FAI Semi Finals, I understand your point completely. ? The problem is that all you?re really doing by changing systems is shifting the accuracy from spots 6,7 & 8 to 11,12 & 13. Bad seeding will still result in those positions being a coin toss. An unknown flyer, or one that has not been to the Nationals in years, does not usually get ?seeded? and can mess up the whole game (with regard to that 12th spot?not as far as picking a champion or even the top 6). ? Bottom line, anything but equal exposure will always make the cut-off positions subject to error. Equal exposure takes time we usually don?t have. We lower the cut-off point to ensure that the top fliers in contention for winning make the finals. ? I?m not really sure what else can be done. ? ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? My opinion may be a little different, but similar Mark. An example, Mike Mueller flew against Tony all week. Flew excellent, but didn't make the finals. My opinion, he should have. The way our system works (or doesn't work) caused this IMO. Mike, like myself and many others, spent a lot on the nats, and if it isn't fair, why go? Well, it's a great time for sure. And it's great to see all you guys! But we need a system to allow us to be judged fairly. We would never run this kind of system at a local contest, so why do we do it at the nats, our most prestigious contest? Could you see it at a local? Ok, you two guys fly in front of those judges, and you other 2 guys fly in front of two other judges, and so on. Why did FAI want equal exposure this year? My guess is because they had less entries, yes, but because our system doesn't work right, and I'm sure they know it. Would the outcome have been different if they ran it different? Maybe, maybe not. But I sure feel the Masters outcome would have been had we had equal exposure. And if Intermediate, and Advanced would have had a finals, I feel the outcome may have changed a little. We discussed this some at the contest this weekend, and doing Jerry's system, with taking the top 3 in each group, then flying 3 and keeping the best 2 rounds would work pretty well, and not much more time. That way, the top 8 will make the finals regardless of their grouping inconsistencies. Unless we can get equal exposure like FAI did this year. That is the best system. Just a thought. Where I differ I think in our thoughts Mark, is that I go to try to make the finals. Then I would be satisfied. 8th place is good to me at the nats right now. Yes we are trying to pick a national champion. But to some of us lesser talented flyer's, we are battling for, and proud of 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th.? In the long run, whatever happens, happens. The point of the whole discussion is to bring about new and possibly format changing ideas that we all may find hope in and try those ideas. Change is good sometimes. With the high amount of intelligence amongst our group, we ought to be able to figure out a way to do this IMO. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 11:06 AM This is really the ONLY issue at hand.? Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats.? In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other? knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak).? ? The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots.? Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats.? No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. ? In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?.? Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals.? We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys.?? Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. ? I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals.? That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals.? The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. ? It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys.? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well.? I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group?? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups.? I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. ? ? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ? From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a?Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used?at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. ? Anthony ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. ?It never failed. ?I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. ?We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. ?Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. ?NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. ?At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. ?AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. ?If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. ?If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ?31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: ? ? ? ?From: Bill's Email ? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? ? ? ?To: "General pattern discussion" ? ? ? ?Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM ? ? ? ?Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? ? ? ? ?Tony wrote: ? ? ? ?Matt: ? ? ? ?Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. ?The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. ?It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? ? ?Tony Stillman, President ? ? ? ?Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 823 bytes Desc: not available URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Mon Aug 3 13:52:29 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:52:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <837066.34922.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <837066.34922.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Nope, and you should get some sort of trophy for that! lol Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:59:22 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Have you done it twice within one month though? And with one plane, that you did it with before the nats, flew the nats, and then did it again? lol I win! haha Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 9:22 PM Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Mon Aug 3 14:01:27 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:01:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <2059688221-1249327988-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1443013845-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001ca1485$f12aa470$d37fed50$@rr.com> In Argentina, there was a tent set up solely for that purpose right off the runway. The scale had a sheet of what appeared to be drywall sitting on it so the plane was weighed sitting on its wheels (as opposed to a belly pan crushing stand). The only downside was having to try and explain in English to the Spanish speaking official why it was necessary to unplug the motor batteries before being weighed for safety's sake. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:33 PM To: dkrev at shaw.ca; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Mon Aug 3 14:02:48 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:02:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: References: <730828.99851.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ok.... I worked out this system for my charged/uncharged packs.... I put a green band around the charged packs.... Red band on used packs.... Then I made this set of rules.. #1 always use the green/red bands and don't get lax with it.... #2 always test the pack voltage before it goes into the plane.... I should have made a #3 rule saying that if I skip #1 or #2, to have someone kick me right square in the butt! Ya, you guessed it! I got really lucky and made it just to the last manuever in FAI... I had a nice short approach for landing, so I didn't really have a problem, but the pack looked like a Staypuff marshmellow! So, from now on, no matter what, #2 is done... I've even tested a pack, then set it down to do something, then picked up the wrong pack to put in the plane. Anything can happen, so from now on, it's test the pack, put it in the plane! Period! lol Rex From: jlkonn at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 06:37:25 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Chris, While we're telling stories on ourselves I did similar this weekend. The Peoria contest was my first with the new electric pattern plane. We had a rain delay on Saturday and planned to catch up on Sunday, which we did thanks to Bob Wilson. Anyway, I flew 2 rounds early Sunday then didn't expect to fly again until the afternoon. I was thinking I wanted to put a charged pack in the plane right away so I'd have one less thing to do in case I got in a hurry. Well... I didn't. But I thought I had! :-( Result was I barely limped back after aborting the reverse cuban in the Advanced sequence. I was lucky! By the way... I REALLY like the "E" plane!!! JLK Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 14:06:39 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:06:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <644234.3223.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rex, I can't stop laughing at myself for this. What an idiot for doing it again! lol Luckily it went down soft again (it's easily fixable), in long, heavy, dry weeds (missed the bay luckily or I would have been swimming haha), wings level, lined up with the run way about 50 yards from it. Too funny. But I really need to learn from this. lol I am going to check my battery from now on. I am going to check my battery from now on. I am going to check my battery from now on. I am going to check my battery from now on. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:52 PM #yiv410213526 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv410213526 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Nope, and you should get some sort of trophy for that!? lol ? Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:59:22 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Have you done it twice within one month though? And with one plane, that you did it with before the nats, flew the nats, and then did it again??? lol I win! haha? Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 9:22 PM #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Chris ? Ouch!? Been there, done that! ? Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one.? I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? ? ? Rex ? From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass p.EC_EC_EC_MsoNormal, #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass li.EC_EC_EC_MsoNormal, #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass div.EC_EC_EC_MsoNormal {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', 'serif';} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass a:link, #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass span.EC_EC_EC_MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass span.EC_EC_EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass span.EC_EC_EC_EmailStyle19 {font-family:'Arial', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass .EC_EC_EC_MsoChpDefault {} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass EC_EC__filtered #EC_EC_yiv488806242 {} #yiv410213526 .ExternalClass #EC_yiv445832866 .EC_ExternalClass #EC_EC_yiv488806242 .EC_EC_ExternalClass div.EC_EC_EC_Section1 {} Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. ? Verne ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting ? Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris ? ? ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Mon Aug 3 14:44:23 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:44:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <644234.3223.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <644234.3223.qm@web33007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ya, come on up to Creswell... I'll watch you to make sure you do everything we need to do. If you screw up, I can slap you in the back of the head... as long as you're willing to do the same for me! I know that Don Atwood has used shock therapy a time or two... lol R Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:06:37 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Rex, I can't stop laughing at myself for this. What an idiot for doing it again! lol Luckily it went down soft again (it's easily fixable), in long, heavy, dry weeds (missed the bay luckily or I would have been swimming haha), wings level, lined up with the run way about 50 yards from it. Too funny. But I really need to learn from this. lol I am going to check my battery from now on. I am going to check my battery from now on. I am going to check my battery from now on. I am going to check my battery from now on. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:52 PM Nope, and you should get some sort of trophy for that! lol Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:59:22 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Have you done it twice within one month though? And with one plane, that you did it with before the nats, flew the nats, and then did it again? lol I win! haha Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 9:22 PM Chris Ouch! Been there, done that! Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 21:03:59 -0700 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I am painting the Emotion and I need to do it pretty quick. I was a complete idiot I guess today, I flew the contest yesterday with 4 rounds and one test flight in the morning, though I was good for a test flight this morning, then I was going to switch battery packs. Well, I didn't make it through the flight. Bye Bye Abbra! lol Oh well. On to the next one. I was considering the Creswell contest so I need to get this done quick. Maybe covering would be quicker. Anyone know any cheaper PPG resources other than Radio South (no offense Tony, you have always given me perfect paint and service) ? Did the prices go up ( and I can understand with the epa stuff going on) in the last several years? I don't remember them being so high to paint my last one a few years back. With 8-10 colors and clear , I'm guessing it would cost me a fortune to paint this. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks! Chris --- On Sun, 8/2/09, Rex wrote: From: Rex Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting To: "NSRCA-discussion" Date: Sunday, August 2, 2009, 8:27 PM I'm guessing you are painting the new Emotion? Rex From: verne at twmi.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 22:21:37 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Don Ramsey has an excellent DVD with step by step instructions. Can?t imagine a lighter way to do it. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 8:11 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting Has anyone come across any really good articles on how to paint wings and stabs lightly. Thanks! Chris -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From timsautopro at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 15:00:10 2009 From: timsautopro at yahoo.com (Tim Taylor) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:00:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <652972.83485.qm@web62305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Why must we pick 3 from each line? What happens if you find last years top 5 fliers on one line and the bottom 5 in another line? Someone's going that shouldn't and some are not that should. ? Would it be ok to take those that score in the?top 20 (Just a number) reguardless of line and there's your finalist. Use the raw scores plus the normalized to get the top 20. This way a matrix doesn't even matter. ? Tim ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:06 PM This is really the ONLY issue at hand.? Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats.? In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other? knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak).? ? The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots.? Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats.? No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. ? In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?.? Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals.? We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys.?? Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. ? I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals.? That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals.? The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. ? It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys.? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements ? Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well.? I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group?? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups.? I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. ? ? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ? From: Anthony Romano To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a?Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used?at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. ? Anthony ? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. ? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. ?It never failed. ?I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. ?We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. ?Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. ?NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. ?At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. ?AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. ?If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. ?If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ?31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email wrote: ? ? ? ?From: Bill's Email ? ? ? ?Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? ? ? ? ?To: "General pattern discussion" ? ? ? ?Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM ? ? ? ?Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? ? ? ? ?Tony wrote: ? ? ? ?Matt: ? ? ? ?Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. ?The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. ?It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. ? ? ? ?Tony Stillman, President ? ? ? ?Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 ?1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:13:07 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:13:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <652972.83485.qm@web62305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8EEB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <652972.83485.qm@web62305.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908031613h30500b5ejdf78e5b16c9cb817@mail.gmail.com> If seeding was done correctly then you should never have the top 5 pilots from last year on one line (contest) and vice versa (bottom 5). On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tim Taylor wrote: > *Why must we pick 3 from each line? What happens if you find last years > top 5 fliers on one line and the bottom 5 in another line? Someone's going > that shouldn't and some are not that should.* > ** > *Would it be ok to take those that score in the top 20 (Just a number) > reguardless of line and there's your finalist. Use the raw scores plus the > normalized to get the top 20. This way a matrix doesn't even matter. * > ** > *Tim* > > > --- On *Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark * wrote: > > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:06 PM > > This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to > both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being > honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly > against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups > who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in > this years case that was Arch and Frak). > > > > The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not > trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea > of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 > of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent > attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 > people that we have experience with. > > > > In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to > make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the > National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the > finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in > the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. > > > > I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 > place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the > finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. > > > > It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to > choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. > > > > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Derek Koopowitz > *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the > current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen > Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With > Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized > scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to > diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the > flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing > field for everyone. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > > wrote: > > I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it > is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the > same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would > seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? > > Mark > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Anthony Romano > > > > > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be > used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. > > Anthony > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds > where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and > then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward > this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something > about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > > wrote: > > Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing > Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even > thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when > we compete for runway space and days to fly. > > I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do > that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment > about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost > more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > > No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current > format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. > I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system > that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At > least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather > exposure per round. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a > 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > > wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as > well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult > to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > < > http://us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------ > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 > 05:57:00 > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Mon Aug 3 15:30:43 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:30:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <000001ca1485$f12aa470$d37fed50$@rr.com> References: <2059688221-1249327988-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1443013845-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000001ca1485$f12aa470$d37fed50$@rr.com> Message-ID: <084D41F1E0014189AEA205D78FA659EA@UncleJasPC> Verne, there is an easy way that Dave and I took care of it. Dave put the plane down outside the tent (aimed away from everyone towards the runway), standing over the tail and did not move until I arrived. I then had the official watch me as I pulled open the canopy and unplugged the battery, then put the canopy back on. Then I spun the prop and stuck my finger in there... he usually laughed and nodded. I think everyone knows not to get around a prop when the battery is plugged in. At least I hope so. But having the fully enclosed tent was great. It was closed off to the high winds and it didn't matter what battery you weighed with during processing. I always weigh with my heaviest battery during processing so that I know I'm safe with the lighter one's. This month it wont be a problem as I will be running all the same batteries with short leads. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Verne Koester To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In Argentina, there was a tent set up solely for that purpose right off the runway. The scale had a sheet of what appeared to be drywall sitting on it so the plane was weighed sitting on its wheels (as opposed to a belly pan crushing stand). The only downside was having to try and explain in English to the Spanish speaking official why it was necessary to unplug the motor batteries before being weighed for safety's sake. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:33 PM To: dkrev at shaw.ca; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 3 15:35:14 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:35:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB808@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Key words "Last year" ... You'll notice several of this years finalists did not fly (masters) last year. And some that did, were no shows. Seeding needs to take more than last years standings into account which makes it more art than science. I'm sure Tony was seeded even though he hadn't flown masters at the nats before. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Aug 03 19:13:06 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements If seeding was done correctly then you should never have the top 5 pilots from last year on one line (contest) and vice versa (bottom 5). On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tim Taylor wrote: Why must we pick 3 from each line? What happens if you find last years top 5 fliers on one line and the bottom 5 in another line? Someone's going that shouldn't and some are not that should. Would it be ok to take those that score in the top 20 (Just a number) reguardless of line and there's your finalist. Use the raw scores plus the normalized to get the top 20. This way a matrix doesn't even matter. Tim --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:06 PM This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > wrote: I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? Mark ________________________________ From: Anthony Romano > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. Anthony ________________________________ Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > wrote: Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it even thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate job when we compete for runway space and days to fly. I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around does not do that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost more than a typical Nats so factor that in. No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals. At least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather exposure per round. John -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are together, HQ can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each group would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a group of people to every site. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? It was done, It was called NPAC Tim --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > wrote: From: Bill's Email > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? Tony wrote: Matt: Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible. The problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very difficult to actually find places that can handle this group. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 3 15:41:36 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:41:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB808@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB808@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <273160D1-4544-4B76-AACF-75C74868EB08@cox.net> Every once in a while, you have to use common sense in seeding and look beyond last year's finishes. When the unexpected contestant arrives, you can be ready. We call that the Frackowiak factor. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Key words "Last year" ... You'll notice several of this years > finalists did not fly (masters) last year. And some that did, were > no shows. > > Seeding needs to take more than last years standings into account > which makes it more art than science. I'm sure Tony was seeded > even though he hadn't flown masters at the nats before. > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon Aug 03 19:13:06 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > If seeding was done correctly then you should never have the top 5 > pilots from last year on one line (contest) and vice versa (bottom 5). > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tim Taylor > wrote: > > > Why must we pick 3 from each line? What happens if you find last > years top 5 fliers on one line and the bottom 5 in another line? > Someone's going that shouldn't and some are not that should. > > Would it be ok to take those that score in the top 20 (Just a > number) reguardless of line and there's your finalist. Use the raw > scores plus the normalized to get the top 20. This way a matrix > doesn't even matter. > > Tim > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:06 PM > > > > This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes > vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no > bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one > another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some > of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always > normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case > that was Arch and Frak). > > > > The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at > least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in > contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes > that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best > assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the > nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have > experience with. > > > > In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is > really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re > trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place > guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of > ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well > judged event to choose the champion. > > > > I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to > the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were > only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely > mitigates that. > > > > It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure > format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the > top guys. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is > critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a > good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have > affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that > group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected > that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish > anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the > flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level > the playing field for everyone. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > > wrote: > > I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but > initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better > exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current > matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more > critical in this scenario? > > Mark > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Anthony Romano us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=anthonyr105 at hotmail.com> > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca- > discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could > be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. > > Anthony > > > ________________________________ > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com compose?to=derekkoopowitz at gmail.com> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca- > discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 > rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 > straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the > finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does > not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there > isn't equal exposure there either. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > compose?to=johnfuqua at embarqmail.com> > wrote: > > Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up > screwing > Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it > even > thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first > rate job when > we compete for runway space and days to fly. > > I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around > does not do > that if you look at history and read up you will find a > consistent comment > about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots > and it cost > more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > > No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the > current > format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation > for Masters. > I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the > Matrix system > that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round > finals. At > least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal > weather > exposure per round. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion- > bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion- > bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > NATS to a 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, > Each group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion- > bounces at lists.nsrca.org> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion- > bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wemodels at cox.net> > wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email us.mc623.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wemodels at cox.net> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" discussion at lists.nsrca.org compose?to=nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and > NSRCA do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring > NATS. Pylon > knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own > thing as > well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible. The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC > and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be > very difficult > to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com www.radiosouthrc.com/> > > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > discussion at lists.nsrca.o > rg discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ________________________________ > > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT > now. form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCas > hback_1x1> > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 05:57:00 > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 3 15:45:12 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:45:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB808@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB808@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <94E723B7-51EE-44ED-A9DA-FA3E9085B050@sbcglobal.net> Actually, I did. But it was in 1978! Tony On Aug 3, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Key words "Last year" ... You'll notice several of this years > finalists did not fly (masters) last year. And some that did, were > no shows. > > Seeding needs to take more than last years standings into account > which makes it more art than science. I'm sure Tony was seeded even > though he hadn't flown masters at the nats before. > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon Aug 03 19:13:06 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > If seeding was done correctly then you should never have the top 5 > pilots from last year on one line (contest) and vice versa (bottom 5). > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tim Taylor > wrote: > > > Why must we pick 3 from each line? What happens if you find last > years top 5 fliers on one line and the bottom 5 in another line? > Someone's going that shouldn't and some are not that should. > > Would it be ok to take those that score in the top 20 (Just a > number) reguardless of line and there's your finalist. Use the raw > scores plus the normalized to get the top 20. This way a matrix > doesn't even matter. > > Tim > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:06 PM > > > > This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes > vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no > bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one > another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some of > the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize > against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch > and Frak). > > > > The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least > not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in > contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes > that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best > assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the > nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have > experience with. > > > > In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is > really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re > trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place > guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of > ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well > judged event to choose the champion. > > > > I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the > 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were only > taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates > that. > > > > It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure > format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the > top guys. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > > Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is > critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a good > example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected > some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that group > became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that > relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish anyone's > flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying > groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the > playing field for everyone. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > > wrote: > > I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but > initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better > exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current > matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more > critical in this scenario? > > Mark > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Anthony Romano > > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > > Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could > be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. > > Anthony > > > ________________________________ > > Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 > rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight > rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals. > I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work. > We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal > exposure there either. > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > > wrote: > > Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up > screwing > Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it > even > thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first rate > job when > we compete for runway space and days to fly. > > I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around > does not do > that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent > comment > about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots > and it cost > more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > > No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the > current > format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for > Masters. > I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the > Matrix system > that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round > finals. At > least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal > weather > exposure per round. > > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Tony > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the > NATS to a 2 > week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are > together, HQ > can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, Each > group > would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't > send a > group of people to every site. > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > 2010? > > > > It was done, It was called NPAC > > > > Tim > > --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > > wrote: > > > From: Bill's Email > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the > Nats in > 2010? > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > > Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and > NSRCA do not > need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring > NATS. Pylon > knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own > thing as > well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > > > Tony wrote: > > Matt: > Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually > feasible. The > problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC > and will > require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be very > difficult > to actually find places that can handle this group. > > > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > rg > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ________________________________ > > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT > now. > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 05:57:00 > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 3 15:45:58 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:45:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <273160D1-4544-4B76-AACF-75C74868EB08@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB808@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <273160D1-4544-4B76-AACF-75C74868EB08@cox.net> Message-ID: Geez! Thanks Ron! I have a whole factor with my name! Tony On Aug 3, 2009, at 4:41 PM, Ron Van Putte wrote: > Every once in a while, you have to use common sense in seeding and > look beyond last year's finishes. When the unexpected contestant > arrives, you can be ready. We call that the Frackowiak factor. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 6:29 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > >> Key words "Last year" ... You'll notice several of this years >> finalists did not fly (masters) last year. And some that did, were >> no shows. >> >> Seeding needs to take more than last years standings into account >> which makes it more art than science. I'm sure Tony was seeded >> even though he hadn't flown masters at the nats before. >> -------------------------- >> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Mon Aug 03 19:13:06 2009 >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements >> >> If seeding was done correctly then you should never have the top 5 >> pilots from last year on one line (contest) and vice versa (bottom >> 5). >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tim Taylor >> wrote: >> >> >> Why must we pick 3 from each line? What happens if you find last >> years top 5 fliers on one line and the bottom 5 in another line? >> Someone's going that shouldn't and some are not that should. >> >> Would it be ok to take those that score in the top 20 (Just a >> number) reguardless of line and there's your finalist. Use the raw >> scores plus the normalized to get the top 20. This way a matrix >> doesn't even matter. >> >> Tim >> >> >> --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: >> >> >> >> From: Atwood, Mark >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:06 PM >> >> >> >> This is really the ONLY issue at hand. Proper seeding becomes >> vital to both formats. In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no >> bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one >> another on the day they fly against each other knocking out some >> of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always >> normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case >> that was Arch and Frak). >> >> >> >> The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at >> least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in >> contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes >> that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots. Not the best >> assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the >> nats. No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have >> experience with. >> >> >> >> In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?. Which is >> really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals. We?re >> trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place >> guys. Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of >> ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well >> judged event to choose the champion. >> >> >> >> I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to >> the 8,9,10 place individuals. That would be a problem if we were >> only taking 3 to the finals. The idea of taking 8 purposely >> mitigates that. >> >> >> >> It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure >> format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the >> top guys. >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> ] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements >> >> >> >> Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is >> critical in the current matrix system as well. I'll give you a >> good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have >> affected some pilots in his group? With Glen not being there that >> group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected >> that relative to the other groups. I'm not trying to diminish >> anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the >> flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level >> the playing field for everyone. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > > > wrote: >> >> I too would like to see an article on this. No offense, but >> initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better >> exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current >> matrix system allows for. Would seeding not become even more >> critical in this scenario? >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Anthony Romano > > > >> >> >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > >> >> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements >> >> >> Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could >> be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. >> >> Anthony >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 >> From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 >> rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 >> straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the >> finals. I'm leaning toward this because the current format does >> not work. We also need to do something about FAI - because there >> isn't equal exposure there either. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > > > > wrote: >> >> Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up >> screwing >> Pattern out of time or space. It never failed. I am against it >> even >> thought I liked to go see other events. We cannot do a first >> rate job when >> we compete for runway space and days to fly. >> >> I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs. Moving them around >> does not do >> that if you look at history and read up you will find a >> consistent comment >> about reducing Nats costs. NPAC was fully funded by the pilots >> and it cost >> more than a typical Nats so factor that in. >> >> No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the >> current >> format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation >> for Masters. >> I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the >> Matrix system >> that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round >> finals. At >> least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal >> weather >> exposure per round. >> >> John >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > >> >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > ] On Behalf Of Tony >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> That is a possibility also. AMA is thinking about returning the >> NATS to a 2 >> week all-events NATS like used to be done. If all events are >> together, HQ >> can put all costs into one effort. If they are all split up, >> Each group >> would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't >> send a >> group of people to every site. >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > ] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor >> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in >> 2010? >> >> >> >> It was done, It was called NPAC >> >> >> >> Tim >> >> --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > > > wrote: >> >> >> From: Bill's Email > > > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the >> Nats in >> 2010? >> To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > >> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM >> >> Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and >> NSRCA do not >> need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring >> NATS. Pylon >> knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own >> thing as >> well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? >> >> >> Tony wrote: >> >> Matt: >> Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually >> feasible. The >> problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC >> and will >> require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF. It may be >> very difficult >> to actually find places that can handle this group. >> >> >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com > > >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > >> >> > rg > > > >> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> >> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT >> now. > > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: >> 08/03/09 05:57:00 >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 15:57:06 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:57:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:01:26 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:01:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908031701u4b68950biba1d827f0580f342@mail.gmail.com> I've already volunteered to do the weighin... plus a couple of others have asked to help as well. I don't see this as a burden on me or any of the contestants - they should expect it. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Chris Moon wrote: > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at > anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through > the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why > not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No > lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going > to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had > applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To > implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a > bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory > EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, > wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do > that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still > be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an > overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. > > Chris (the other one) > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > Just curious. > > Thx! > > *Chris * > > > > > > --- On *Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca * wrote: > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Fuqua > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor > as > well as airplanes. > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Derek > Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the > fear > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > > wrote: > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" > the > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > technology changes. > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > teardown and inspection. > > Jay Marshall > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Mon Aug 3 16:11:09 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:11:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <084D41F1E0014189AEA205D78FA659EA@UncleJasPC> References: <2059688221-1249327988-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1443013845-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000001ca1485$f12aa470$d37fed50$@rr.com> <084D41F1E0014189AEA205D78FA659EA@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <002b01ca1498$0f81a6a0$2e84f3e0$@rr.com> You must have had a different guy. My guy was ALWAYS in a hurry and generally upset when I popped the canopy to unplug the battery. He did finally learn to say "battery" though and I learned to nod my head in the affirmative in response. He still didn't like it though. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Verne, there is an easy way that Dave and I took care of it. Dave put the plane down outside the tent (aimed away from everyone towards the runway), standing over the tail and did not move until I arrived. I then had the official watch me as I pulled open the canopy and unplugged the battery, then put the canopy back on. Then I spun the prop and stuck my finger in there... he usually laughed and nodded. I think everyone knows not to get around a prop when the battery is plugged in. At least I hope so. But having the fully enclosed tent was great. It was closed off to the high winds and it didn't matter what battery you weighed with during processing. I always weigh with my heaviest battery during processing so that I know I'm safe with the lighter one's. This month it wont be a problem as I will be running all the same batteries with short leads. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Verne Koester To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In Argentina, there was a tent set up solely for that purpose right off the runway. The scale had a sheet of what appeared to be drywall sitting on it so the plane was weighed sitting on its wheels (as opposed to a belly pan crushing stand). The only downside was having to try and explain in English to the Spanish speaking official why it was necessary to unplug the motor batteries before being weighed for safety's sake. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:33 PM To: dkrev at shaw.ca; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Mon Aug 3 16:14:35 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:14:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003001ca1498$8a2e38f0$9e8aaad0$@rr.com> Actually, there's no penalty prescribed for failing the weight or length test. A fix is already included in a rules proposal. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Moon Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. Chris (the other one) krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:16:47 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:16:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have to agree with Chris. As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the Nats. Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those that are trying to win. I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't concerned about their plane being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing and are there for the fun. I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone gets weighed at checkin. The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. JLK Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. Chris (the other one) krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:24:24 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:24:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908031724w32d5113cw7d8164834ac9197e@mail.gmail.com> Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at the Nats? I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker wrote: > I have to agree with Chris. > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the > Nats. > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those > that are trying to win. > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't > concerned about their plane > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing > and are there for the fun. > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone > gets weighed at checkin. > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. > JLK > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at > anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through > the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why > not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No > lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going > to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had > applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To > implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a > bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory > EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, > wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do > that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still > be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an > overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. > > Chris (the other one) > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > Just curious. > > Thx! > > *Chris * > > > > > > --- On *Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca * wrote: > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Fuqua > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor > as > well as airplanes. > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Derek > Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the > fear > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > > wrote: > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" > the > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > technology changes. > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > teardown and inspection. > > Jay Marshall > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:29:49 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:29:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908031724w32d5113cw7d8164834ac9197e@mail.gmail.com> References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908031724w32d5113cw7d8164834ac9197e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Not the point I was trying to make. Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the procedure that has been in place were followed. Respectfully, JLK Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at the Nats? I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker wrote: I have to agree with Chris. As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the Nats. Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those that are trying to win. I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't concerned about their plane being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing and are there for the fun. I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone gets weighed at checkin. The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. JLK Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. Chris (the other one) krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Aug 3 16:54:06 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 00:54:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <653619.46319.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I don't have an electric pattern plane (yet) but this is the system I use for everything electric that I fly. ? I have an ammo box I use to carry/store my batteries. I have velcro on all the batteries to help hold them in place in the plane (I don't depend on the velcro alone on the larger batteries). When the pack is charged, I stick it to velcro on the inside walls of the ammo box. This makes it very easy to do the other thing - check the voltage of the battery before I use it. When I place the spent batteries in the box, they lay on the bottom, with my voltmeter laying on top. :-) ? Bob R. --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Rex wrote: #yiv1417179966 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1417179966 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Ok....? I worked out this system for my charged/uncharged packs.... I put a green band around the charged packs....? Red band on used packs.... Then I made this set of rules.. #1?? always use the? green/red bands and don't get lax with it.... #2?? always test the pack voltage before it goes into the plane.... I should have made a #3 rule saying that if I skip #1 or #2, to have someone kick me right square in the butt! Ya, you guessed it!? I got really lucky and made it just to the last manuever in FAI... I had a nice short approach for landing, so I didn't really have a problem, but the pack looked like a Staypuff marshmellow! So, from now on, no matter what, #2 is done...? I've even tested a pack, then set it down to do something, then picked up the wrong pack to put in the plane.??Anything can happen, so from?now on, it's test the pack, put it in the plane! Period!? lol ? Rex ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chad at f3acanada.org Mon Aug 3 17:08:52 2009 From: chad at f3acanada.org (Chad Northeast) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:08:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <003001ca1498$8a2e38f0$9e8aaad0$@rr.com> References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <003001ca1498$8a2e38f0$9e8aaad0$@rr.com> Message-ID: <4A778A22.1090203@f3acanada.org> In 2005 I believe there was a penalty applied to a flyer (I think swiss maybe) who was overweight on the post flight test. I think it was 3 or 5% deduction in raw score, but my mind fails to recall the exact #. I have no idea how they came to this deduction. I don't think he was over by much so hardly fair to DQ him when he obviously passed check in. This was before the 1% allowance which would have solved the problem in that case. By weighing the models after the flight, its nearly impossible to cheat. It was done this way in France and Argentina and I have based on my experience I cannot see how you could get away with cheating on weight and not get caught (at least with electric models). I think it would be pretty obvious to anyone if a caller started swapping around packs on the runway after the flight LOL. Chad Verne Koester wrote: > > Actually, there?s no penalty prescribed for failing the weight or > length test. A fix is already included in a rules proposal. > > Verne > > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris > Moon > *Sent:* Monday, August 03, 2009 7:57 PM > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at > anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go > through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists > already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that > already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and > measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they > fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this > discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure > (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to > do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the > plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx > battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to > 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still > be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make > an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. > > Chris (the other one) > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > Just curious. > > Thx! > > /*Chris */ > > > > --- On *Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca > / /* wrote: > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Fuqua > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > competitor as > well as airplanes. > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf > Of Derek > Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and > the fear > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > wrote: > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > opportunity to > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > "sticker" the > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > technology changes. > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > teardown and inspection. > > Jay Marshall > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -- Chad www.chadnortheast.ca From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 17:13:51 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:13:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908031724w32d5113cw7d8164834ac9197e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Mon Aug 3 17:43:07 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:43:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <084D41F1E0014189AEA205D78FA659EA@UncleJasPC> References: <2059688221-1249327988-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1443013845-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com><000001ca1485$f12aa470$d37fed50$@rr.com> <084D41F1E0014189AEA205D78FA659EA@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <5CC9EC2CB5AC4A21BA58A6A2170F4161@Tony> Jason: Please contact me off list at tony at radiosouthrc.com Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Verne, there is an easy way that Dave and I took care of it. Dave put the plane down outside the tent (aimed away from everyone towards the runway), standing over the tail and did not move until I arrived. I then had the official watch me as I pulled open the canopy and unplugged the battery, then put the canopy back on. Then I spun the prop and stuck my finger in there... he usually laughed and nodded. I think everyone knows not to get around a prop when the battery is plugged in. At least I hope so. But having the fully enclosed tent was great. It was closed off to the high winds and it didn't matter what battery you weighed with during processing. I always weigh with my heaviest battery during processing so that I know I'm safe with the lighter one's. This month it wont be a problem as I will be running all the same batteries with short leads. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Verne Koester To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In Argentina, there was a tent set up solely for that purpose right off the runway. The scale had a sheet of what appeared to be drywall sitting on it so the plane was weighed sitting on its wheels (as opposed to a belly pan crushing stand). The only downside was having to try and explain in English to the Spanish speaking official why it was necessary to unplug the motor batteries before being weighed for safety's sake. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:33 PM To: dkrev at shaw.ca; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 3 17:43:15 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:43:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908031724w32d5113cw7d8164834ac9197e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <006301ca14a4$ec2e2680$9501a8c0@GW7422> This stuff cracks me up. How hard is it to build a 2-meter Pattern plane that makes weight? I did it on my first attempt. And I was 8 oz. UNDER weight. All I did was weigh everything that went into the plane when I built it. Simple. It's not rocket science guys. EVERY time I see a plane that's "overweight" it's obvious (to me anyway) why. I know I'm not the only one who can build a light airplane. I've seen lots of them. Built by "ordinary" guys like myself. Come on guys, quit sniveling about the weight issue. This is ridiculous! We have a rule that defines the Max. weight. If you can't build an airplane that meets the rules then why should you expect to be able to fly it in a National Competition? Does that make sense? Regardless of whether or not you expect to make the finals or the top 3 (in Intermediate or Adavanced) you should know that your plane should have to comply with the rules. If that makes you stay home instead of driving all the way to Muncie with an "illegal" airplane then I guess it just sucks to be you. :( Anything we do will be better than what we've been doing. Will people "cheat"? I hope not. It's always possible. But I don't think Pattern guys cheat all that often. Sure, they might try to "get away" with something like NOT weighing their airplane before going to the NATs then scrambling to get it down to the Max weight before they get their award. THAT I've seen a few times. :) You guys have a whole year to learn how to build a light airplane. I know you can do it. VBG John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Moon To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I agree that everyone should have a plane that is in compliance to compete. My issue is piling a lot of duties on the volunteers as a means of correcting the past. Derek has volunteered to do the weighing and sizing. Is one person (Derek) expected to do this all day on check in day by himself or how many other people is this going to take in order to cover all day? If this counts as your judging assignment, then it reduces the number of available judges. The NATS is the premier event for the country and I agree we should do what we can to make sure the models are in compliance. But we are just setting up another system that unless there is cut and dry guidance, can be waived or ignored as in the past. And if we just had that guidance, the current system would work fine and not result in extra man power requirements. Just think of the can of worms, if I know my plane is overweight, I might substitute a smaller tank or 4 cell receiver pack for a 5 cell or substitute a micro servo that I have no intention of actually flying and would swap out right after inspection. The answer of course is to inventory every plane for every part and then compare that inventory sheet with the plane later in the competition. What a man power mess to do all of this! And what if my servo did die and I swapped it out during competition and now my plane does not match the inventory made at check in? Again, this discussion would never be going on if planes that were determined to be not in compliance were removed from competition as finalists and top finishers these last 2 years as has happened to people in the past. Tough love, yes. I vote we give Derek a break next summer - doesn't he already have that shirt with the bulls eye on it? Chris John Konneker wrote: Not the point I was trying to make. Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the procedure that has been in place were followed. Respectfully, JLK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at the Nats? I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker wrote: I have to agree with Chris. As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the Nats. Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those that are trying to win. I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't concerned about their plane being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing and are there for the fun. I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone gets weighed at checkin. The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. JLK -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. Chris (the other one) krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 18:25:59 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:25:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements In-Reply-To: <94E723B7-51EE-44ED-A9DA-FA3E9085B050@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <921605.92457.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You really should move up. lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Anthony Frackowiak wrote: From: Anthony Frackowiak Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 4:45 PM Actually, I did. But it was in 1978! Tony On Aug 3, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Key words "Last year" ... You'll notice several of this years finalists did not fly (masters) last year.? And some that did, were no shows. > > Seeding needs to take more than last years standings into account which makes it more art than science.? I'm sure Tony was seeded even though he hadn't flown masters at the nats before. > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon Aug 03 19:13:06 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > If seeding was done correctly then you should never have the top 5 pilots from last year on one line (contest) and vice versa (bottom 5). > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Tim Taylor wrote: > > > ??? ??? Why must we pick 3 from each line? What happens if you find last years top 5 fliers on one line and the bottom 5 in another line? Someone's going that shouldn't and some are not that should. > ??? > ??? Would it be ok to take those that score in the top 20 (Just a number) reguardless of line and there's your finalist. Use the raw scores plus the normalized to get the top 20. This way a matrix doesn't even matter. > ??? > ??? Tim > ??? > > ??? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > ??? > > > ??? ??? From: Atwood, Mark > ??? ??? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > ??? ??? To: "General pattern discussion" > ??? ??? Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 2:06 PM > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? This is really the ONLY issue at hand.? Proper seeding becomes vital to both formats.? In the Matrix system, two ?weaker? (no bashing, just being honest) groups will normalize very high to one another on the day they fly against each other? knocking out some of the pilots from the other groups who are forced to always normalize against one of the stronger pilots (in this years case that was Arch and Frak). > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? The 4 mini contests does a better job with the math (your at least not trying to force normalization with equal exposure) but in contrast, the idea of taking the top 2 or 3 from each group assumes that one group won?t have 4 of the best pilots.? Not the best assumption given the inconsistent attendance that many have at the nats.? No way to seed beyond the top 3-4 people that we have experience with. > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? In both cases?people have to stay true to the ?Goal?.? Which is really to make sure that the top 3 guys make the finals.? We?re trying to pick the National Champion, not the 5,6,7 and 8th place guys.???Taking 8 to the finals in EITHER format does a good job of ensuring that the top 3 are in the finals and have a fair, well judged event to choose the champion. > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? I think any format we choose is likely to err when it comes to the 8,9,10 place individuals.? That would be a problem if we were only taking 3 to the finals.? The idea of taking 8 purposely mitigates that. > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? It?s even less of an issue in FAI where 20 fly in a full exposure format to choose the finalists and they still take 8 to choose the top guys. > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz > ??? ??? Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:57 PM > ??? ??? To: General pattern discussion > ??? ??? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? Seeding would be very critical in this just like seeding is critical in the current matrix system as well.? I'll give you a good example... had Glen Watson showed up wouldn't that have affected some pilots in his group?? With Glen not being there that group became an "easy" group and the normalized scores reflected that relative to the other groups.? I'm not trying to diminish anyone's flying efforts here but I think the ED should adjust the flying groups based on attendance if necessary in order to level the playing field for everyone. > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Mark Hunt > wrote: > > ??? ??? I too would like to see an article on this.? No offense, but initially it is unclear to me how this would give any better exposure of pilots to the same judges/conditions than the current matrix system allows for.? Would seeding not become even more critical in this scenario? > > ??? ??? Mark > > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? ________________________________ > > ??? ??? ??? ??? From: Anthony Romano > > > ??? ??? > ??? ??? To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > ??? ??? Sent: Monday, August 3, 2009 11:56:34 AM > ??? ??? Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Matrix improvements > > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Maybe Jerry could detail this in a Kfactor article. Perhaps could be used at locals to help with an oversized Masters group. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Anthony > ??? ??? > > ________________________________ > > ??? ??? Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:45:19 -0700 > ??? ??? From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > ??? ??? To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > ??? ??? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > > ??? ??? Jerry Budd had a good suggestion in running 4 mini-contests for 6 rounds where each pilot would fly against their group for 6 straight rounds and then the top 3 from each group would fly in the finals.? I'm leaning toward this because the current format does not work.? We also need to do something about FAI - because there isn't equal exposure there either. > > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > > ??? ??? On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:41 PM, John Fuqua > wrote: > > ??? ??? Every Nats I went to that had all events in 2 weeks ended up screwing > ??? ??? Pattern out of time or space.? It never failed.? I am against it even > ??? ??? thought I liked to go see other events.? We cannot do a first rate job when > ??? ??? we compete for runway space and days to fly. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? I thought AMA wanted to reduce Nats costs.? Moving them around does not do > ??? ??? that if you look at history and read up you will find a consistent comment > ??? ??? about reducing Nats costs.? NPAC was fully funded by the pilots and it cost > ??? ??? more than a typical Nats so factor that in. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? No one has addressed the equal exposure to judges issues for the current > ??? ??? format yet and Mike's proposal does not correct that situation for Masters. > ??? ??? I had one person suggest to me that if we continue to use the Matrix system > ??? ??? that we take the top 3 pilots from each "Group" to a 3 round finals.? At > ??? ??? least then we have equal judging exposure and more or less equal weather > ??? ??? exposure per round. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? John > > ??? ??? > ??? ??? -----Original Message----- > ??? ??? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > ??? ??? [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Tony > ??? ??? Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:56 PM > ??? ??? To: 'General pattern discussion' > ??? ??? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? That is a possibility also.? AMA is thinking about returning the NATS to a 2 > ??? ??? week all-events NATS like used to be done.? If all events are together, HQ > ??? ??? can put all costs into one effort.? If they are all split up, Each group > ??? ??? would have more costs to deal with due to the fact that HQ can't send a > ??? ??? group of people to every site. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Tony Stillman, President > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Radio South, Inc. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Brunswick, GA? 31525 > ??? ??? > ??? ??? 1-800-962-7802 > ??? ??? > ??? ??? www.radiosouthrc.com > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ________________________________ > ??? ??? > ??? ??? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ??? ??? [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor > ??? ??? Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:39 PM > ??? ??? To: General pattern discussion > ??? ??? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in 2010? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? It was done, It was called NPAC > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Tim > ??? ??? > ??? ??? --- On Thu, 7/30/09, Bill's Email > wrote: > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ? ? ???From: Bill's Email > > ??? ??? ? ? ???Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flash Poll - Relocate the Nats in > ??? ??? 2010? > ??? ??? ? ? ???To: "General pattern discussion" > > ??? ??? ? ? ???Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:06 PM > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ? ? ???Why not allow the SIGS to do their own thing? IMAC and NSRCA do not > ??? ??? need to share a site. The LSF can find a site for the soaring NATS. Pylon > ??? ??? knows what venues work for them and so on. FF can do their own thing as > ??? ??? well. Why tie soaring and FF together and so on?? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ? ? ???Tony wrote: > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ? ? ???Matt: > ??? ??? ? ? ???Yes, it is just difficult to tell if it is actually feasible.? The > ??? ??? problem is that it requires a large site for Pattern/Pylon/IMAC and will > ??? ??? require another large site for Soaring/Outdoor FF.? It may be very difficult > ??? ??? to actually find places that can handle this group. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ? ? ???Tony Stillman, President > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ? ? ???Radio South, Inc. > ??? ??? > ??? ??? 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Brunswick, GA???31525 > ??? ??? > ??? ?????1-800-962-7802 > > ??? ??? www.radiosouthrc.com ? > > ??? ??? > ??? ??? ________________________________ > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > ??? ??? > ??? ??? _______________________________________________ > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > ??? ??? ??? ??? rg > > > ??? ??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? _______________________________________________ > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > ??? ??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ??? ??? > ________________________________ > > > ??? ??? Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. > > ??? ??? > ??? ??? _______________________________________________ > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > ??? ??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ??? ??? > ??? ??? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ??? ??? Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.27/2258 - Release Date: 08/03/09 05:57:00 > > ??? ??? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > ??? ??? > ??? ??? > ??? ??? _______________________________________________ > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list > ??? ??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > ??? ??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? > > > ??? _______________________________________________ > ??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list > ??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > ??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ??? > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:28:22 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:28:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <110145.66569.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908031724w32d5113cw7d8164834ac9197e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908031928l6b913073m56e3f39f70c11370@mail.gmail.com> Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we have today. Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker wrote: > Not the point I was trying to make. > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the > procedure that has been in place were followed. > Respectfully, > JLK > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should > we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise > locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at > the Nats? > > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker wrote: > > I have to agree with Chris. > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the > Nats. > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those > that are trying to win. > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't > concerned about their plane > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing > and are there for the fun. > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone > gets weighed at checkin. > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. > JLK > > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at > anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through > the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why > not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No > lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going > to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had > applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To > implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a > bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory > EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, > wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do > that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still > be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an > overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. > > Chris (the other one) > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > Just curious. > > Thx! > > *Chris * > > > > > > --- On *Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca * wrote: > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Fuqua > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor > as > well as airplanes. > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Derek > Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the > fear > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > > wrote: > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" > the > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > technology changes. > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > teardown and inspection. > > Jay Marshall > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 18:44:25 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:44:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908031928l6b913073m56e3f39f70c11370@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <137295.82923.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want to make it better. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: From: Derek Koopowitz Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we have today. Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker wrote: Not the point I was trying to make. Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the procedure that has been in place were followed. Respectfully, JLK Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at the Nats? I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker wrote: I have to agree with Chris. As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the Nats. Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those that are trying to win. I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't concerned about their plane being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing and are there for the fun. I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone gets weighed at checkin. The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. JLK Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. Chris (the other one) krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 3 18:55:09 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:55:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <137295.82923.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <137295.82923.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7CCCB5C2-796E-4A69-9D81-8C6E54D73EA7@cox.net> Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that? Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want > to make it better. > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > > From: Derek Koopowitz > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we > have today. > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > Not the point I was trying to make. > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if > the procedure that has been in place were followed. > Respectfully, > JLK > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it > and enforcing it at the Nats? > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > I have to agree with Chris. > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > attend the Nats. > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and > those that are trying to win. > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't > concerned about their plane > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or > placing and are there for the fun. > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > everyone gets weighed at checkin. > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and > enforced. > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. > JLK > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened. > > Chris (the other one) > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > Just curious. > > Thx! > > Chris > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Fuqua > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > competitor as > well as airplanes. > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as > much > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. > Weight. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek > Koopowitz > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop > that. > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and > the fear > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > wrote: > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > opportunity to > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > removable > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > "sticker" the > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > inspection and > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can > also be > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > technology changes. > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > teardown and inspection. > > Jay Marshall > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From rcpilot at wowway.com Mon Aug 3 19:00:04 2009 From: rcpilot at wowway.com (Ron Hansen) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:00:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <137295.82923.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <116FDD4BA7E549618D85720C2351839D@toshibauser> Why don't we eliminate the weight limit and keep the size and noise limits. I haven't heard a good argument as to why keeping the weight limit is a good idea. If you want to fly a 2 meter lead weight then go for it. Why will removing the weight limit negatively effect future technology development. It won't it will just redirect future technology development. Maybe we will learn that lighter planes don't necessarily fly better. Maybe it will spur future development of gasoline engines for the pattern community. This of coarse couldn't apply to FAI. Maybe the FAI thing is the real issue but I believe there is ample room for pattern planes designed to meet the AMA rule and those designed to meet the FAI rules. After all there are far more AMA pattern flyers than FAI flyers. Some are already floating ideas about changing the weight interpretations. Lets take it all the way and remove the weight limit altogether. My 2 cents. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:44 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want to make it better. Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: From: Derek Koopowitz Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we have today. Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker wrote: Not the point I was trying to make. Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the procedure that has been in place were followed. Respectfully, JLK _____ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at the Nats? I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker wrote: I have to agree with Chris. As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the Nats. Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those that are trying to win. I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't concerned about their plane being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing and are there for the fun. I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone gets weighed at checkin. The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. JLK _____ Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. Chris (the other one) krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:05:12 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:05:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <137295.82923.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <137295.82923.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Mon Aug 3 19:06:24 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:06:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <7CCCB5C2-796E-4A69-9D81-8C6E54D73EA7@cox.net> References: <7CCCB5C2-796E-4A69-9D81-8C6E54D73EA7@cox.net> Message-ID: <8CBE2C79E549287-1548-1128@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is less predictable MattK -----Original Message----- From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that?? ? Ron VP? ? On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:? ? > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want > to make it better.? >? > Chris? >? >? >? >? >? > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com> wrote:? >? > From: Derek Koopowitz <derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing? > To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>? > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM? >? > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we > have today.? >? > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site.? >? > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker <jlkonn at hotmail.com> > wrote:? > Not the point I was trying to make.? > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below.? > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if > the procedure that has been in place were followed.? > Respectfully,? > JLK? >? > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700? > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com? >? > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing? >? > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it > and enforcing it at the Nats?? > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish.? >? > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker <jlkonn at hotmail.com> > wrote:? > I have to agree with Chris.? > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > attend the Nats.? > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and > those that are trying to win.? > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't > concerned about their plane? > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or > placing and are there for the fun.? > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > everyone gets weighed at checkin.? > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and > enforced.? > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent.? > JLK? >? >? >? > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400? > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com? > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing? >? > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened.? >? > Chris (the other one)? >? >? > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote:? > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind?? >? > Just curious.? >? > Thx!? >? > Chris? >? >? > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca <dkrev at shaw.ca> wrote:? >? > From: dkrev at shaw.ca <dkrev at shaw.ca>? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing? > To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>? > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM? >? > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-)? > Sent from Dave's Crackberry? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>? >? > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25? > To: 'General pattern discussion'<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing? >? >? > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > competitor as? > well as airplanes.? >? > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as > much? > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. > Weight.? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek? > Koopowitz? > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM? > To: General pattern discussion? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing? >? > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items? > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really? > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop > that.? > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and > the fear? > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified.? >? >? > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall <lightfoot at sc.rr.com> > wrote:? >? >? >? >? > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work.? > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > opportunity to? > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > removable? > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > "sticker" the? > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > inspection and? > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can > also be? > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions.? >? >? >? > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions.? >? >? >? > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately? > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and? > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest.? >? >? >? > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery? > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as? > technology changes.? >? >? >? > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a? > teardown and inspection.? >? > Jay Marshall? >? >? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? > No virus found in this incoming message.? > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com? > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 17:56:00? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? >? > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? >? > _______________________________________________? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? ? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 3 19:32:01 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:32:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <8CBE2C79E549287-1548-1128@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> References: <7CCCB5C2-796E-4A69-9D81-8C6E54D73EA7@cox.net> <8CBE2C79E549287-1548-1128@webmail-de17.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <7885EE64-1F15-41FA-A07D-2470C86EFC27@cox.net> Maybe Tony Stillman can tell us. I didn't see the number of entrants posted for Soaring. Waiting for thermals is a personal problem; we don't get to wait for less wind. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:05 PM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a > guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is > less predictable > > MattK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Van Putte > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was a > "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, > they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see > that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I > noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that? > > Ron VP > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to > > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the > > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time > I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well > I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate > to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay > some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets > equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair > for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not > perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why > people don't want > to make it better. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz > wrote: > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not > just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the > majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the > rules we > have today. > > > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I > > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an > opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in > lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment > as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it > every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or > whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's > solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that > just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have > the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for > each site. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > > wrote: > > Not the point I was trying to make. > > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if > > the procedure that has been in place were followed. > > Respectfully, > > JLK > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? > > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, > size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule > for it > and enforcing it at the Nats? > > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker > > wrote: > > I have to agree with Chris. > > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > > attend the Nats. > > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and > > those that are trying to win. > > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they > aren't > concerned about their plane > > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals > or > placing and are there for the fun. > > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > > everyone gets weighed at checkin. > > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and > > enforced. > > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. > > JLK > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not > aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's > response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential > winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the > officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or > interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going > to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If > they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be > going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) > is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really > want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in > order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc > after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ > airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still > be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not > make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened. > > > > Chris (the other one) > > > > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > > > Just curious. > > > > Thx! > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: > > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Fuqua > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > > competitor as > > well as airplanes. > > > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load > as > much > > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max > T.O. > Weight. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek > > Koopowitz > > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor > really > > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will > stop > that. > > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest > and > the fear > > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > > opportunity to > > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > > removable > > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > > "sticker" the > > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > > inspection and > > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks > can > also be > > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen > here and > > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could > change as > > technology changes. > > > > > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > > teardown and inspection. > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: > > 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 19:36:34 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:36:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <412308.77970.qm@web33008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't have big money, heck, or small money, but I spent a small fortune to go if you calculate a week and a half off of work without pay as I am self employed. I think most people spend quite a bit to go. Heck, look at the planes. 3-5 grand for an airframe. I don't think money is the issue people won't go. Especially another $25-50-100.? I paid $200 to go this year. lol (late entry) haha I agree, it's hard to depend on volunteers, but there are plenty of Intermediate folk who don't get to judge just because they are intermediate folk. I don't agree with this. But they could run the weigh in day easily. Even success... hmmm, well, I don't see the event successful if the event is run with inconsistencies in judging, or weighing and then there is all the controversy and talk after it. We should all be talking about how much fun we had. Heck, I did. Was really fun to fly in the winds IMO. I usually don't fly in them at home. It was fun to work hard on Z distance IMO. It was fun going to the museum and looking at all the cool stuff there, and old old Kfactors. It was fun getting to see people that I consider movie stars (my version of Hollywood is the pattern guys that I read about in the Kfactor). People that I would normally not ever meet, but that I have really come to like through the nats. The dinners, the banquet, the Nsrca meeting, the? foamy flying, and chatting with guys in the hotel lobby, and much more, all a great time. Without change, we wouldn't be typing on the computers right now, we'd be sending letters on horseback. It's time to try to fix things IMO. Give it a chance. It could be worthwhile to not have these discussions after next years nats. lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Chris Moon wrote: From: Chris Moon Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:05 PM I'm with you on that Chris. I would honestly pay $200+ no problem if that would solve some of the issues.? I guess the question is, where is the balance line between an open entry national event and a country club type $$ event where only those willing to part with the big money will enter?? I don't have any idea.? The current method relies on volunteers and you can only ask so much from volunteers before they are no longer volunteers - they are at home instead.? And I consider someone who is getting a few $$ per hour compensation to be essentially a volunteer. People like Derek who are willing to volunteer is awesome but we can't base the event's success on the expectation of having lots of Derek clones willing to help in all of these areas every year.? Plus lots of Derek clones might be too much for some to take...? :) Chris krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want to make it better. Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: From: Derek Koopowitz Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we have today. Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker wrote: Not the point I was trying to make. Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the procedure that has been in place were followed. Respectfully, JLK Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at the Nats? I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker wrote: I have to agree with Chris. As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the Nats. Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those that are trying to win. I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't concerned about their plane being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing and are there for the fun. I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone gets weighed at checkin. The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. JLK Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. Chris (the other one) krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? Just curious. Thx! Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: From: dkrev at shaw.ca Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: John Fuqua Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor as well as airplanes. That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the fear that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity to change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" the battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as technology changes. As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a teardown and inspection. Jay Marshall _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 19:39:05 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:39:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <7885EE64-1F15-41FA-A07D-2470C86EFC27@cox.net> Message-ID: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> 09SO - RC Soaring Total Registrants - 146 Event #NameOpenSeniorJunior 441HL Thermal Soaring3811 442Thermal Soaring Two Meter4611 444Thermal Soaring Unlimited10433 445F3B Thermal Soaring000 446F3H Cross Country Soaring000 456F3J4520 460RES Function (RES)7113 461Nostalgia (NOS)2100 Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:32 PM Maybe Tony Stillman can tell us.? I didn't see the number of entrants posted for Soaring.? Waiting for thermals is a personal problem; we don't get to wait for less wind. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:05 PM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is less predictable > > MattK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Van Putte > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that? > > Ron VP > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want > to make it better. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we > have today. > > > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > > Not the point I was trying to make. > > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if > the procedure that has been in place were followed. > > Respectfully, > > JLK > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it > and enforcing it at the Nats? > > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > > I have to agree with Chris. > > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > attend the Nats. > > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and > those that are trying to win. > > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't > concerned about their plane > > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or > placing and are there for the fun. > > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > everyone gets weighed at checkin. > > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and > enforced. > > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. > > JLK > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened. > > > > Chris (the other one) > > > > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > > > Just curious. > > > > Thx! > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: > > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Fuqua > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > competitor as > > well as airplanes. > > > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as > much > > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. > Weight. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek > > Koopowitz > > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop > that. > > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and > the fear > > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > opportunity to > > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > removable > > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > "sticker" the > > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > inspection and > > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can > also be > > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > > technology changes. > > > > > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > > teardown and inspection. > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 3 19:50:56 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 03:50:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> Hmmm. R/C Soaring had six events and 146 total entrants. We had four events with about 100 entrants. They got nine days and we got four. Maybe someone can explain the logic. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:39 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > 09SO - RC Soaring Total Registrants - 146 > Event #NameOpenSeniorJunior > 441HL Thermal Soaring3811 > 442Thermal Soaring Two Meter4611 > 444Thermal Soaring Unlimited10433 > 445F3B Thermal Soaring000 > 446F3H Cross Country Soaring000 > 456F3J4520 > 460RES Function (RES)7113 > 461Nostalgia (NOS)2100 > > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:32 PM > > Maybe Tony Stillman can tell us. I didn't see the number of > entrants posted for Soaring. Waiting for thermals is a personal > problem; we don't get to wait for less wind. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:05 PM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > > > I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a > guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is > less predictable > > > > MattK > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ron Van Putte > > To: General pattern discussion > > Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was > a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, > they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see > that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I > noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that? > > > > Ron VP > > > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > > > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared > to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all > the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the > time I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about > (well I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise > my rate to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. > Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone > gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it > fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, > not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand > why people don't want > to make it better. > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz > wrote: > > > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > To: "General pattern discussion" discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not > just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the > majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the > rules we > have today. > > > > > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. > I > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an > opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in > lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment > as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it > every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or > whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's > solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that > just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have > the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for > each site. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > > wrote: > > > Not the point I was trying to make. > > > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > > > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place > if > the procedure that has been in place were followed. > > > Respectfully, > > > JLK > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > > > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and > size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks > weight, size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having > a rule for it > and enforcing it at the Nats? > > > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker > > wrote: > > > I have to agree with Chris. > > > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > > attend the Nats. > > > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects > and > those that are trying to win. > > > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they > aren't > concerned about their plane > > > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals > or > placing and are there for the fun. > > > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > > everyone gets weighed at checkin. > > > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed > and > enforced. > > > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the > innocent. > > > JLK > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > > > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not > aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's > response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential > winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the > officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or > interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going > to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If > they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be > going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) > is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really > want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in > order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc > after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ > airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still > be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not > make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened. > > > > > > Chris (the other one) > > > > > > > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > > > > > Just curious. > > > > > > Thx! > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: > > > > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > To: "General pattern discussion" discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > > > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: John Fuqua > > > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > > competitor as > > > well as airplanes. > > > > > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can > load as > much > > > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max > T.O. > Weight. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Derek > > > Koopowitz > > > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all > items > > > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor > really > > > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will > stop > that. > > > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest > and > the fear > > > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really > work. > > > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > > opportunity to > > > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > > removable > > > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > > "sticker" the > > > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > > inspection and > > > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks > can > also be > > > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > > > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen > here and > > > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > > > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could > change as > > > technology changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > > > teardown and inspection. > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release > Date: > 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 20:20:27 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 04:20:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <137295.82923.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908032120r32fa11d3t428a994e6706805a@mail.gmail.com> What you talkin' about Willis? LOL One of me is more than I can take!! On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Chris Moon wrote: > I'm with you on that Chris. I would honestly pay $200+ no problem if that > would solve some of the issues. I guess the question is, where is the > balance line between an open entry national event and a country club type $$ > event where only those willing to part with the big money will enter? I > don't have any idea. The current method relies on volunteers and you can > only ask so much from volunteers before they are no longer volunteers - they > are at home instead. And I consider someone who is getting a few $$ per > hour compensation to be essentially a volunteer. > > People like Derek who are willing to volunteer is awesome but we can't base > the event's success on the expectation of having lots of Derek clones > willing to help in all of these areas every year. Plus lots of Derek clones > might be too much for some to take... :) > > Chris > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to what we > spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the practice leading > up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I took off work, and > everything else that it cost me about (well I won't say, or I will get > crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to $200 and pay someone to weigh > planes. Pay some judges. Pay some zero judges. Pay for a few more days so > that everyone gets equal exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make > it fair for all. Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not > perfect, but ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't > want to make it better. > > *Chris * > > > > > > --- On *Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz > * wrote: > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just the > select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority of everyone > that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we have today. > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I think the > time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I don't normally get > to do that and this will give me an opportunity to meet everyone. I'm also > not looking to do this in lieu of my judging duties either... I view my > judging assignment as an essential part of attending the Nats and look > forward to it every time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos > or whatever just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's > solution is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed tents to > do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > > wrote: > >> Not the point I was trying to make. >> Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. >> ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if the >> procedure that has been in place were followed. >> Respectfully, >> JLK >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 >> From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? Should >> we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size and noise >> locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it and enforcing it at >> the Nats? >> I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker >> > wrote: >> >> I have to agree with Chris. >> As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that attend the >> Nats. >> Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and those >> that are trying to win. >> I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't >> concerned about their plane >> being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or placing >> and are there for the fun. >> I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if everyone >> gets weighed at checkin. >> The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and enforced. >> Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. >> JLK >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 >> From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed at >> anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We go through >> the process of weighing the potential winners and finalists already - why >> not just mandate that the officials APPLY the rule that already exists. No >> lee way or interpretation necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going >> to say "oh never mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had >> applied the existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To >> implement a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a >> bunch of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody inventory >> EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't change props, >> wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is going to volunteer to do >> that to 100+ airplanes? The current way has worked just fine and would still >> be fine IF THE RULE AS IT EXISTS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an >> overly elaborate witch hunt in response to what happened. >> >> Chris (the other one) >> >> >> krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: >> >> Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? >> >> Just curious. >> >> Thx! >> >> *Chris * >> >> >> --- On *Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca >> * wrote: >> >> >> From: dkrev at shaw.ca >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM >> >> We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) >> Sent from Dave's Crackberry >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: John Fuqua >> > >> >> Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> >> Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each competitor >> as >> well as airplanes. >> >> That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as much >> fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. Weight. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of Derek >> Koopowitz >> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items >> including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really >> wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop that. >> I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and the >> fear >> that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. >> >> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. >> If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much opportunity >> to >> change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally removable >> item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we "sticker" >> the >> battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for inspection and >> that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can also be >> under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. >> >> >> >> If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. >> >> >> >> Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately >> before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and >> shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. >> >> >> >> Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery >> pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as >> technology changes. >> >> >> >> As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a >> teardown and inspection. >> >> Jay Marshall >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Mon Aug 3 20:37:34 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 04:37:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> References: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A77BB0C.60809@cox.net> Ron Van Putte wrote: > Hmmm. R/C Soaring had six events and 146 total entrants. We had four > events with about 100 entrants. They got nine days and we got four. > Maybe someone can explain the logic. > > Ron VP > OK, I will. Yes, soaring had 143 individual enter the soaring NATS. However, soaring ran six (6) separate events with a total of 337 paid entries. This does NOT include the electric soaring NATS. So soaring got 9 days for 337 paid entries and pattern got 4 for 100 paid entries. So if soaring got the proportionate number of days they should have gotten 3.37 times the number that pattern got, or 13 to 14 days. Looks like soaring got the short end of the stick. Make sense now?? From perkinsrx at centurytel.net Mon Aug 3 20:41:35 2009 From: perkinsrx at centurytel.net (Eddie Batchelor P.D.) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 04:41:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting In-Reply-To: <653619.46319.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <653619.46319.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I copied a friends system. similar to yours Except : I too have velcro on the packs for the velcro straps to stick to. Charged packs get a RED velcro strap stuck to the velcro already on the packs. Plus I do measure the voltaage before installing into the plane. I tried red rubber bands but they tend to be difficult to locate and tend to dryout and break. The velcro doesn't fall off :-) eddie ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Richards To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Painting I don't have an electric pattern plane (yet) but this is the system I use for everything electric that I fly. I have an ammo box I use to carry/store my batteries. I have velcro on all the batteries to help hold them in place in the plane (I don't depend on the velcro alone on the larger batteries). When the pack is charged, I stick it to velcro on the inside walls of the ammo box. This makes it very easy to do the other thing - check the voltage of the battery before I use it. When I place the spent batteries in the box, they lay on the bottom, with my voltmeter laying on top. :-) Bob R. --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Rex wrote: Ok.... I worked out this system for my charged/uncharged packs.... I put a green band around the charged packs.... Red band on used packs.... Then I made this set of rules.. #1 always use the green/red bands and don't get lax with it.... #2 always test the pack voltage before it goes into the plane.... I should have made a #3 rule saying that if I skip #1 or #2, to have someone kick me right square in the butt! Ya, you guessed it! I got really lucky and made it just to the last manuever in FAI... I had a nice short approach for landing, so I didn't really have a problem, but the pack looked like a Staypuff marshmellow! So, from now on, no matter what, #2 is done... I've even tested a pack, then set it down to do something, then picked up the wrong pack to put in the plane. Anything can happen, so from now on, it's test the pack, put it in the plane! Period! lol Rex ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 3 21:42:20 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:42:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A77BB0C.60809@cox.net> Message-ID: <59434.79584.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Do only two sailplanes fly at the same time on a line? Do they get equal judging, and where do they weigh? lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 9:37 PM Ron Van Putte wrote: > Hmmm.? R/C Soaring had six events and 146 total entrants.? We had four events with about 100 entrants.? They got nine days and we got four.? Maybe someone can explain the logic. > > Ron VP > OK, I will. Yes, soaring had 143 individual enter the soaring NATS. However, soaring ran six (6) separate events with a total of 337 paid entries. This does NOT include the electric soaring NATS. So soaring got 9 days for 337 paid entries and pattern got 4 for 100 paid entries. So if soaring got the proportionate number of days they should have gotten 3.37 times the number that pattern got, or 13 to 14 days. Looks like soaring got the short end of the stick. Make sense now?? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Tue Aug 4 04:13:25 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 12:13:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> References: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> Message-ID: F3B/F3H alternate years with F3J. That is why there are no entries in F3B and F3H. They have already reduced their event timeframe, as well. I think they have eliminated scale soaring in recent years. A lot of the soaring guys fly multiple events. I know there was talk of eliminating two meter some years ago too. Some of the sailplane events require 2 days and they cram a bunch of rounds in each day with a lot more planes in the air at one time than we have. Just think unlimited had around 100 people flying to complete an event in a two day period. On the other end of the spectrum, you also need to look at some of the control line events where there are only a handful of entrants. > From: vanputte at cox.net > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 22:50:59 -0500 > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Hmmm. R/C Soaring had six events and 146 total entrants. We had > four events with about 100 entrants. They got nine days and we got > four. Maybe someone can explain the logic. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:39 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > 09SO - RC Soaring Total Registrants - 146 > > Event #NameOpenSeniorJunior > > 441HL Thermal Soaring3811 > > 442Thermal Soaring Two Meter4611 > > 444Thermal Soaring Unlimited10433 > > 445F3B Thermal Soaring000 > > 446F3H Cross Country Soaring000 > > 456F3J4520 > > 460RES Function (RES)7113 > > 461Nostalgia (NOS)2100 > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > > > > From: Ron Van Putte > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:32 PM > > > > Maybe Tony Stillman can tell us. I didn't see the number of > > entrants posted for Soaring. Waiting for thermals is a personal > > problem; we don't get to wait for less wind. > > > > Ron VP > > > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:05 PM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > > > > > I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a > > guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is > > less predictable > > > > > > MattK > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ron Van Putte > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was > > a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, > > they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see > > that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I > > noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that? > > > > > > Ron VP > > > > > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > > > > > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared > > to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all > > the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the > > time I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about > > (well I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise > > my rate to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. > > Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone > > gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it > > fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, > > not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand > > why people don't want > to make it better. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz > > wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > > > > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not > > just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the > > majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the > > rules we > have today. > > > > > > > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > > > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. > > I > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an > > opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in > > lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment > > as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it > > every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or > > whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's > > solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that > > just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have > > the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for > > each site. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > > > wrote: > > > > Not the point I was trying to make. > > > > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > > > > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place > > if > the procedure that has been in place were followed. > > > > Respectfully, > > > > JLK > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > > > > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > > > > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and > > size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks > > weight, size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having > > a rule for it > and enforcing it at the Nats? > > > > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker > > > wrote: > > > > I have to agree with Chris. > > > > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > > > attend the Nats. > > > > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects > > and > those that are trying to win. > > > > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they > > aren't > concerned about their plane > > > > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals > > or > placing and are there for the fun. > > > > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > > > everyone gets weighed at checkin. > > > > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed > > and > enforced. > > > > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the > > innocent. > > > > JLK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > > > > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not > > aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's > > response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential > > winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the > > officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or > > interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going > > to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If > > they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be > > going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) > > is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really > > want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in > > order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc > > after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ > > airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still > > be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not > > make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened. > > > > > > > > Chris (the other one) > > > > > > > > > > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > > > > > > > Just curious. > > > > > > > > Thx! > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: > > > > > > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > > > > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > > > > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: John Fuqua > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > > > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > > > > > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > > > competitor as > > > > well as airplanes. > > > > > > > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can > > load as > much > > > > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max > > T.O. > Weight. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > > Derek > > > > Koopowitz > > > > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all > > items > > > > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor > > really > > > > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will > > stop > that. > > > > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest > > and > the fear > > > > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really > > work. > > > > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > > > opportunity to > > > > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > > > removable > > > > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > > > "sticker" the > > > > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > > > inspection and > > > > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks > > can > also be > > > > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > > > > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen > > here and > > > > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > > > > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could > > change as > > > > technology changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > > > > teardown and inspection. > > > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release > > Date: > 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Tue Aug 4 05:04:30 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:04:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A77BB0C.60809@cox.net> References: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> <4A77BB0C.60809@cox.net> Message-ID: Maybe if you're into soaring. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 11:37 PM, Bill's Email wrote: > Ron Van Putte wrote: >> Hmmm. R/C Soaring had six events and 146 total entrants. We had >> four events with about 100 entrants. They got nine days and we >> got four. Maybe someone can explain the logic. >> >> Ron VP >> > OK, I will. > > Yes, soaring had 143 individual enter the soaring NATS. However, > soaring ran six (6) separate events with a total of 337 paid > entries. This does NOT include the electric soaring NATS. > > So soaring got 9 days for 337 paid entries and pattern got 4 for > 100 paid entries. > > So if soaring got the proportionate number of days they should have > gotten 3.37 times the number that pattern got, or 13 to 14 days. > Looks like soaring got the short end of the stick. > > Make sense now?? > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 4 05:32:11 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:32:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A783859.6040000@cox.net> Joe Lachowski wrote: > > A lot of the soaring guys fly multiple events. I know there was talk > of eliminating two meter some years ago too. Some of the sailplane > events require 2 days and they cram a bunch of rounds in each day with > a lot more planes in the air at one time than we have. Just think > unlimited had around 100 people flying to complete an event in a two > day period. > > On the other end of the spectrum, you also need to look at some of > the control line events where there are only a handful of entrants. Bottom line is soaring gets over 300 paid entries. And before you start down the road of the numbers game think about Free Flight. They traditionally attract the largest number of entries, so maybe they should argue that RC should be cut down more. If 2-meter is cut or eliminated the thinking is to give that time, or at least a day of it, to a different event, RES, which is growing rapidly. Joe did not mention that his brother is over in the Czech Republic right now representing the US on out F3B World Team, so he knows a bit about soaring if only by association. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 05:50:06 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:50:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A783859.6040000@cox.net> References: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A05A720-09E2-46F2-B359-B27C25947E2A@cox.net> <4A783859.6040000@cox.net> Message-ID: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry about anybody else. Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice fllights in. As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much. A quick check to insure the batteries installed at measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Joe Lachowski wrote: >> A lot of the soaring guys fly multiple events. I know there was talk >of eliminating two meter some years ago too. Some of the sailplane >events require 2 days and they cram a bunch of rounds in each day with >a lot more planes in the air at one time than we have. Just think >unlimited had around 100 people flying to complete an event in a two >day period. >> >>On the other end of the spectrum, you also need to look at some of the >control line events where there are only a handful of entrants. > Bottom line is soaring gets over 300 paid entries. And before you start down the road of the numbers game think about Free Flight. They traditionally attract the largest number of entries, so maybe they should argue that RC should be cut down more. If 2-meter is cut or eliminated the thinking is to give that time, or at least a day of it, to a different event, RES, which is growing rapidly. Joe did not mention that his brother is over in the Czech Republic right now representing the US on out F3B World Team, so he knows a bit about soaring if only by association. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilsorc at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 06:45:20 2009 From: wilsorc at gmail.com (Bob Wilson) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:45:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Email Message-ID: <888fdd980908040745l18e9941ap2e88dc077fe1308d@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know Mike Gaishin's email address? Bob Wilson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Tue Aug 4 06:46:06 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 14:46:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Heathkit Message-ID: I had the pleasure of meeting a gentleman named Mike Gaishin (sp?) at the Peoria contest. It's my understanding he was the main designer of the Heathkit radio control systems. He was very interesting to listen to at the Saturday night get together at Terry's house. I have the impression he's been flying for only a year after a long layoff. When I told him about the discussions on this list recently about all the great memories folks have of the Heathkit products his face lit up! He said he feels very fortunate to have worked Heathkit. Nice guy. JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From terryb at beachlers.com Tue Aug 4 07:23:18 2009 From: terryb at beachlers.com (Terry Beachler) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:23:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Email In-Reply-To: <888fdd980908040745l18e9941ap2e88dc077fe1308d@mail.gmail.com> References: <888fdd980908040745l18e9941ap2e88dc077fe1308d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A78526F.8050204@beachlers.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From terryb at beachlers.com Tue Aug 4 07:23:54 2009 From: terryb at beachlers.com (Terry Beachler) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:23:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Email In-Reply-To: <888fdd980908040745l18e9941ap2e88dc077fe1308d@mail.gmail.com> References: <888fdd980908040745l18e9941ap2e88dc077fe1308d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A785293.4080407@beachlers.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilsorc at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 07:32:24 2009 From: wilsorc at gmail.com (Bob Wilson) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:32:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Email In-Reply-To: <4A78526F.8050204@beachlers.com> References: <888fdd980908040745l18e9941ap2e88dc077fe1308d@mail.gmail.com> <4A78526F.8050204@beachlers.com> Message-ID: <888fdd980908040832v2588b0adl78f26d4a944a8239@mail.gmail.com> Terrance, Yah, I have that sheet on Mike, but his email address is unclear and every combination I try doesn't work. b On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Terry Beachler wrote: > Boob > > See the registration material sign up sheets. I gathered email on all. They > are the sheets where the bottom third is cut off. > > T > > Bob Wilson wrote: > > Does anyone know Mike Gaishin's email address? > > Bob Wilson > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Tue Aug 4 07:34:18 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:34:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I have no problem letting them. ? If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing or a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story ? MattK -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane <getterflash at yahoo.com> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry about anybody else. Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice fllights in. As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much.? A quick check to insure the batteries installed at measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has entered.? I can't imagine saving much weight with a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. ? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From: Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Joe Lachowski wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 07:47:56 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:47:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Heathkit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <998364.34130.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Good to bring him up John. He's a very talented guy. He even designed his own 2 meter plane and has a very good skill for flying. Mike also owns a tool and die business is southwest Michigan. He's been a very good addition to the Midwest pattern scene. Mike --- On Tue, 8/4/09, John Konneker wrote: > From: John Konneker > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Heathkit > To: "Discussion List" > Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:46 AM > > > > #yiv2130657833 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv2130657833 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > I had the > pleasure of meeting a gentleman named Mike Gaishin (sp?) at the Peoria > contest. > > It's my understanding he was the main designer > of the Heathkit radio control systems.? He was very > > > interesting to listen to at the Saturday night get > together at Terry's house.? I have the impression > he's > > been > flying for only a year after a long layoff.??When > I told him about the discussions on this list > recently > > about > all the great memories folks have of the Heathkit products > his face lit up!? He said he feels very > fortunate > > to > have?worked Heathkit. > > Nice > guy. > > JLK? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 08:13:15 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:13:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <166809.58707.qm@web33005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This may be fine Matt, but aren't rules rules? When you allow one to be broken, the next guy that breaks a different rule can point the finger and say "well you let that person break that rule" and so on. Chris ? ? ? --- On Tue, 8/4/09, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: From: rcmaster199 at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 8:33 AM If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I have no problem letting them. ? If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing or a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story ? MattK -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing #yiv613210685 #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry about anybody else. Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice fllights in. As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much.? A quick check to insure the batteries installed at measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has entered.? I can't imagine saving much weight with a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. ? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Joe Lachowski wrote: #yiv613210685 #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv613210685 #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 4 08:36:20 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:36:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <404536.65413.qm@web33003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing 09SO - RC Soaring Total Registrants - 146 Event # Name Open Senior Junior 441 HL Thermal Soaring 38 1 1 442 Thermal Soaring Two Meter 46 1 1 444 Thermal Soaring Unlimited 104 3 3 445 F3B Thermal Soaring 0 0 0 446 F3H Cross Country Soaring 0 0 0 456 F3J 45 2 0 460 RES Function (RES) 71 1 3 461 Nostalgia (NOS) 21 0 0 Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:32 PM Maybe Tony Stillman can tell us. I didn't see the number of entrants posted for Soaring. Waiting for thermals is a personal problem; we don't get to wait for less wind. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:05 PM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is less predictable > > MattK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Van Putte > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that? > > Ron VP > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want > to make it better. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we > have today. > > > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > > Not the point I was trying to make. > > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if > the procedure that has been in place were followed. > > Respectfully, > > JLK > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it > and enforcing it at the Nats? > > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > > I have to agree with Chris. > > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > attend the Nats. > > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and > those that are trying to win. > > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't > concerned about their plane > > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or > placing and are there for the fun. > > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > everyone gets weighed at checkin. > > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and > enforced. > > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. > > JLK > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened. > > > > Chris (the other one) > > > > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > > > Just curious. > > > > Thx! > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: > > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Fuqua > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > competitor as > > well as airplanes. > > > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as > much > > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. > Weight. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek > > Koopowitz > > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop > that. > > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and > the fear > > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > opportunity to > > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > removable > > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > "sticker" the > > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > inspection and > > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can > also be > > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > > technology changes. > > > > > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > > teardown and inspection. > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 4 08:48:46 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:48:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net> J N Hiller wrote: > Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? > Jim Yes. The total entires always exceeds the total number of individuals since most fly multiple events. For instance many fly all 6 events. Some will fly Unlimited/2-meter/RES and so on. So with 146 people you get 325 paid entry fees. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 4 08:51:05 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:51:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OOps, I should have read all the posts first. Sorry Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:37 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing 09SO - RC Soaring Total Registrants - 146 Event # Name Open Senior Junior 441 HL Thermal Soaring 38 1 1 442 Thermal Soaring Two Meter 46 1 1 444 Thermal Soaring Unlimited 104 3 3 445 F3B Thermal Soaring 0 0 0 446 F3H Cross Country Soaring 0 0 0 456 F3J 45 2 0 460 RES Function (RES) 71 1 3 461 Nostalgia (NOS) 21 0 0 Chris --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: From: Ron Van Putte Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 8:32 PM Maybe Tony Stillman can tell us. I didn't see the number of entrants posted for Soaring. Waiting for thermals is a personal problem; we don't get to wait for less wind. Ron VP On Aug 3, 2009, at 10:05 PM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > I don't know much about the Soaring event. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be 1- more pilots and 2- waiting for thermals is less predictable > > MattK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ron Van Putte > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon, Aug 3, 2009 10:55 pm > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Not too long ago, R/C Aerobatics had five days; the fifth day was a "rain day", just in case. When AMA decided to shorten the Nats, they took away our rain day. I was OK with that, BUT I don't see that the Nats are any shorter and, in looking over the Nats News, I noticed that R/C Soaring has NINE days. What's with that? > > Ron VP > > On Aug 3, 2009, at 9:44 PM, krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > > The $100 that we pay for the entry is small potatoes compared to > what we spend on the nats. Think about the time off work, all the > practice leading up, the expenses. I estimate that with the time I > took off work, and everything else that it cost me about (well I > won't say, or I will get crucified on here, lol). Raise my rate to > $200 and pay someone to weigh planes. Pay some judges. Pay some > zero judges. Pay for a few more days so that everyone gets equal > exposure judging. Whatever has to be done to make it fair for all. > Why settle for "well, it's sorta ok the way it is, not perfect, but > ok" when we can change it? I can't understand why people don't want > to make it better. > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 7:28 PM > > > > Rules are rules and we should enforce them for everyone - not just > the select few that make the finals. I would bet that the majority > of everyone that attends the Nats is compliant with the rules we > have today. > > > > Chris: I don't have any problems working to process planes - I > think the time would be fun to meet all the attendees and say hi. I > don't normally get to do that and this will give me an opportunity > to meet everyone. I'm also not looking to do this in lieu of my > judging duties either... I view my judging assignment as an > essential part of attending the Nats and look forward to it every > time. If someone is going to cheat by replacing servos or whatever > just to make weight then shame on them... perhaps Chad's solution > is the best one to weigh planes after they fly but that just makes > the logistics even harder I think since we don't have the enclosed > tents to do this and also enough scales etc. for each site. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:29 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > > Not the point I was trying to make. > > Please reread the last two sentences of my note below. > > ONLY legal planes would make the finals, semifinals and place if > the procedure that has been in place were followed. > > Respectfully, > > JLK > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:24:22 -0700 > > From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > Then why even bother to have the rules? How about noise and size? > Should we eliminate those rules as well? No one checks weight, size > and noise locally... so why should we bother having a rule for it > and enforcing it at the Nats? > > I don't buy it that attendance will diminish. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 5:16 PM, John Konneker > wrote: > > I have to agree with Chris. > > As someone has pointed out there are basically two types that > attend the Nats. > > Those that go to renew friendships and for the social aspects and > those that are trying to win. > > I have been told by more than one pilot attending that they aren't > concerned about their plane > > being overweight since they have no chance of making the finals or > placing and are there for the fun. > > I think you will see an even further decrease in attendance if > everyone gets weighed at checkin. > > The way it has been til now would be fine IF it was followed and > enforced. > > Otherwise it's just more search for the guilty, punish the innocent. > > JLK > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 19:57:03 -0400 > > From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I think we are making this more difficult than necessary (not aimed > at anyone in particular - I just jumped in on Chris's response). We > go through the process of weighing the potential winners and > finalists already - why not just mandate that the officials APPLY > the rule that already exists. No lee way or interpretation > necessary. Why weigh and measure if we are going to say "oh never > mind, that's ok" when they fail inspection. If they had applied the > existing rule, this discussion would not be going on. To implement > a new procedure (weighing all at check in) is going to need a bunch > of extra help to do and do we really want to have somebody > inventory EVERY item on the plane too in order to ensure they don't > change props, wheels, rx battery, etc after inspection? Who is > going to volunteer to do that to 100+ airplanes? The current way > has worked just fine and would still be fine IF THE RULE AS IT > EXIS TS WAS APPLIED. Simple. Let's not make an overly elaborate > witch hunt in response to what happened. > > > > Chris (the other one) > > > > > > krishlan fitzsimmons wrote: > > Where do they weigh at a worlds event? Outside in the wind? > > > > Just curious. > > > > Thx! > > > > Chris > > > > > > --- On Mon, 8/3/09, dkrev at shaw.ca wrote: > > > > From: dkrev at shaw.ca > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 12:30 PM > > > > We got weighed after each round at the worlds..... Just saying :-) > > Sent from Dave's Crackberry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Fuqua > > > > Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:35:25 > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > > > Better be prepared to weigh 4 or 5 sets of batteries with each > competitor as > > well as airplanes. > > > > That's the thing with glow. Only dry weight counts. You can load as > much > > fuel as you wish to any weight! Electric stuck at a fixed max T.O. > Weight. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek > > Koopowitz > > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:37 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > > I don't see an issue with this... we will put a sticker on all items > > including all packs that a competitor will use. If a competitor really > > wants to cheat then they will do it... nothing we can do will stop > that. > > I'm also hoping that random inspections will keep people honest and > the fear > > that if you do fail then you will be disqualified. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Jay Marshall > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I have some concern that the proposals put forward will really work. > > If the plane is inspected at check-in then there is too much > opportunity to > > change things. In particular, batteries, which are a normally > removable > > item, can be changed to decrease on increase the weight. Do we > "sticker" the > > battery pack? This means the plane must be disassembled for > inspection and > > that only that battery pack can be used. At present fuel tanks can > also be > > under/over filled to adjust ballast for windy conditions. > > > > > > > > If this is a serious problem, perhaps there are other solutions. > > > > > > > > Planes could be placed in an impound/inspection area immediately > > before a flight and fully fueled. The inspection could happen here and > > shouldn't delay the flow of the contest. > > > > > > > > Another possibility is to adopt a "standard" weight for a battery > > pack, then weigh electric planes empty. The "standard" could change as > > technology changes. > > > > > > > > As John Pavlick will tell you, all major race winners undergo a > > teardown and inspection. > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.43/2280 - Release Date: > 08/03/09 17:56:00 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 4 08:51:31 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:51:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net> Message-ID: <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing J N Hiller wrote: Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? Jim Yes. The total entires always exceeds the total number of individuals since most fly multiple events. For instance many fly all 6 events. Some will fly Unlimited/2-meter/RES and so on. So with 146 people you get 325 paid entry fees. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 08:54:26 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:54:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <878489.57092.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Nah, they fly at the same time. Of course, you could probably do this. lol Chris ? ? ? --- On Tue, 8/4/09, J Shu wrote: From: J Shu Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:51 AM I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing J N Hiller wrote: Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? Jim Yes. The total entires always exceeds the total number of individuals since most fly multiple events. For instance many fly all 6 events. Some will fly Unlimited/2-meter/RES and so on. So with 146 people you get 325 paid entry fees. ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 4 08:58:18 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:58:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net> <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <4A7868A8.3060902@cox.net> J Shu wrote: > I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? > > Regards, > Jason > If the rules allowed it, why not. Of course the different classes in soaring are based on different types of planes so I am not sure that the comparison is meaningful. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 4 09:02:40 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:02:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A7868A8.3060902@cox.net> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net><27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> <4A7868A8.3060902@cox.net> Message-ID: <9067A1B94FA9436287C1D4B8ED2275B2@UncleJasPC> I'll fly my 50 sized glow plane... its a different plane lol Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing J Shu wrote: I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? Regards, Jason If the rules allowed it, why not. Of course the different classes in soaring are based on different types of planes so I am not sure that the comparison is meaningful. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 09:10:25 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:10:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <9067A1B94FA9436287C1D4B8ED2275B2@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <861854.60482.qm@web33006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> But does it make weight????? Chris ? ? ? --- On Tue, 8/4/09, J Shu wrote: From: J Shu Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:00 AM I'll fly my 50 sized glow plane... its a different plane lol Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing J Shu wrote: I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? Regards, Jason If the rules allowed it, why not. Of course the different classes in soaring are based on different types of planes so I am not sure that the comparison is meaningful. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 4 09:11:28 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:11:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <9067A1B94FA9436287C1D4B8ED2275B2@UncleJasPC> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net><27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> <4A7868A8.3060902@cox.net> <9067A1B94FA9436287C1D4B8ED2275B2@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <4A786BBE.3080307@cox.net> J Shu wrote: > I'll fly my 50 sized glow plane... its a different plane lol > Like I said, if the pattern rules allow it, why not?? However, they appear not to do so: 8.2.5: There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the Masters class. Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the FAI class at any contest but not both. And pattern does not differentiate classes based on aircraft type as soaring does. Maybe it should. Perhaps we need a 50-sized glow powered plane class. And then 0.90, 1.10, and 1.70 glow class, and an electric class. Then maybe break that up into biplanes and monoplanes while we are at it. Then get over 300 planes at an event irrespective of the number of individual pilots and there you go!! 9 days or more for pattern!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 4 09:15:30 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (krishlan fitzsimmons) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:15:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A786BBE.3080307@cox.net> Message-ID: <332435.61327.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeah but that's just a rule. They don't matter, right? haha Chris ? ? ? --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:11 AM J Shu wrote: I'll fly my 50 sized glow plane... its a different plane lol Like I said, if the pattern rules allow it, why not??? However, they appear not to do so: 8.2.5: There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the Masters class. Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the FAI class at any contest but not both. And pattern does not differentiate classes based on aircraft type as soaring does. Maybe it should. Perhaps we need a 50-sized glow powered plane class. And then 0.90, 1.10, and 1.70 glow class, and an electric class. Then maybe break that up into biplanes and monoplanes while we are at it.? Then get over 300 planes at an event irrespective of the number of individual pilots and there you go!! 9 days or more for pattern!! -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BUDDYonRC at aol.com Tue Aug 4 09:34:03 2009 From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com (BUDDYonRC at aol.com) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:34:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Message-ID: The CD can write around it -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgghome at comcast.net Tue Aug 4 09:46:57 2009 From: jgghome at comcast.net (John Gayer) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:46:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A786BBE.3080307@cox.net> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net><27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> <4A7868A8.3060902@cox.net> <9067A1B94FA9436287C1D4B8ED2275B2@UncleJasPC> <4A786BBE.3080307@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A787401.4090902@comcast.net> Why is this rule necessary rather than make it at the discretion of the CD? If F3A is not an AMA class and there is no mandatory advancement, why not allow flying in both? Attendance is low enough at many local contests that the extra entry fee would be appreciated by the sponsoring club and the extra competition by the competitors in the two classes. John Gayer Bill's Email wrote: > J Shu wrote: >> I'll fly my 50 sized glow plane... its a different plane lol >> > > Like I said, if the pattern rules allow it, why not?? However, they > appear not to do so: > > 8.2.5: There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the Masters > class. Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the FAI class > at any contest but not both. > > > > > And pattern does not differentiate classes based on aircraft type as > soaring does. Maybe it should. Perhaps we need a 50-sized glow powered > plane class. And then 0.90, 1.10, and 1.70 glow class, and an electric > class. Then maybe break that up into biplanes and monoplanes while we > are at it. Then get over 300 planes at an event irrespective of the > number of individual pilots and there you go!! 9 days or more for > pattern!! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Tue Aug 4 09:52:37 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:52:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <878489.57092.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> <878489.57092.qm@web33004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <01fa01ca152c$456b6190$d04224b0$@net> Chris, I'm just glad he said Advanced instead of Masters.J From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of krishlan fitzsimmons Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:54 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Nah, they fly at the same time. Of course, you could probably do this. lol Chris --- On Tue, 8/4/09, J Shu wrote: From: J Shu Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 9:51 AM I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing J N Hiller wrote: Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? Jim Yes. The total entires always exceeds the total number of individuals since most fly multiple events. For instance many fly all 6 events. Some will fly Unlimited/2-meter/RES and so on. So with 146 people you get 325 paid entry fees. _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 4 09:58:17 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:58:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A787401.4090902@comcast.net> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net><27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> <4A7868A8.3060902@cox.net> <9067A1B94FA9436287C1D4B8ED2275B2@UncleJasPC> <4A786BBE.3080307@cox.net> <4A787401.4090902@comcast.net> Message-ID: <4A7876B7.8090702@cox.net> John Gayer wrote: > Why is this rule necessary rather than make it at the discretion of > the CD? If F3A is not an AMA class and there is no mandatory > advancement, why not allow flying in both? Attendance is low enough at > many local contests that the extra entry fee would be appreciated by > the sponsoring club and the extra competition by the competitors in > the two classes. > > John Gayer > Beats me, I did not write it, I just quoted it. Having said that, a CD is free to do just about anything they want as long as it does no effect safety. All they have to do is put it in the sanction application, get it approved, and publish that variance at least 30 days prior to the contest. BTW - many say that F3A is not an AMA class however it is listed as one of the five pattern classes which in my mind does in fact define it as an AMA pattern class: 7. Pattern event classes: The Pattern event shall be divided into five (5) classes. The first four (4) shall (in order of increasing difficulty) be referred to as Sportsman, Intermediate, Advanced, and Masters. The fifth class shall be referred to as the FAI class. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 4 10:07:33 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:07:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Message-ID: <809951.35916.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill, Jason only flew AMA Advanced then he went to?FAI F3A so yes, the rules DO allow it. :) ? Jason - I'll see you up on site 4 next year. VBG ? John Pavlick --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Bill's Email wrote: From: Bill's Email Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 1:11 PM J Shu wrote: I'll fly my 50 sized glow plane... its a different plane lol Like I said, if the pattern rules allow it, why not??? However, they appear not to do so: 8.2.5: There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the Masters class. Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the FAI class at any contest but not both. And pattern does not differentiate classes based on aircraft type as soaring does. Maybe it should. Perhaps we need a 50-sized glow powered plane class. And then 0.90, 1.10, and 1.70 glow class, and an electric class. Then maybe break that up into biplanes and monoplanes while we are at it.? Then get over 300 planes at an event irrespective of the number of individual pilots and there you go!! 9 days or more for pattern!! -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Tue Aug 4 10:14:40 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:14:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com> References: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition and the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, but how about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What about the rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also check every airplane for them before flying commences? How about random spot checks after flights to make sure no gyros and autopilots were added after the original verification? There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't verify for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How about considering competitors as honorable as a start and only check the size and weight measurement for the finalists. Otherwise, we need to check everyone's airplanes for complying with all the rules. Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I have > no problem letting them. > > If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing or > a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story > > MattK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Kane > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} > I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is > a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry about > anybody else. > > Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would > certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official > flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice > fllights in. > > As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much. > A quick check to insure the batteries installed at measurement time > are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has > entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with a smaller tank > for nitro planes, but same thing goes. > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > From: Bill's Email > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Joe Lachowski wrote: >> >> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P >> {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Tue Aug 4 10:16:53 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:16:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net> <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <842B2A1B-60E8-479A-9F72-8CA53FE4E3D9@cox.net> There's actually a rule against it. It's broken many times at local contests. Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:51 AM, J Shu wrote: > I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? > > Regards, > Jason > www.shulmanaviation.com > www.composite-arf.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill's Email > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > J N Hiller wrote: >> >> Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? >> Jim > > Yes. The total entires always exceeds the total number of > individuals since most fly multiple events. For instance many fly > all 6 events. Some will fly Unlimited/2-meter/RES and so on. So > with 146 people you get 325 paid entry fees. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Tue Aug 4 10:25:42 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:25:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net><27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <1618017494-1249410339-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-390541760-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Jason - I like your idea as I think it helps with the much chronicled reource shortage at the nats as you will have to judge twice. Have fun, just don't get beat....you know there are a lot of up and comers in advanced looking to make a name for themselves and bagging an uncle jas would be huge for them :-) In all seriousness....get to the practice field and kick a** at the worlds. Mike Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "J Shu" Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:51:24 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 4 10:32:36 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:32:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <842B2A1B-60E8-479A-9F72-8CA53FE4E3D9@cox.net> Message-ID: At one time this was allowed. I don't remember why the rule to prevent flying both was adopted. I suspect flying both caused flightline scheduling problems when multiple lines were used. If both Masters and FAI were on the same line the flight time for the round could be quite long and if on different lines planned flight order could experience interruptions and delays inconveniencing both judge scheduling and the contest management. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:17 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing There's actually a rule against it. It's broken many times at local contests. Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 11:51 AM, J Shu wrote: > I'd like to fly Advanced and FAI at a Nats.... can we do this too? > > Regards, > Jason > www.shulmanaviation.com > www.composite-arf.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill's Email > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:48 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > J N Hiller wrote: >> >> Do some of these folks fly in more than one event? >> Jim > > Yes. The total entires always exceeds the total number of > individuals since most fly multiple events. For instance many fly > all 6 events. Some will fly Unlimited/2-meter/RES and so on. So > with 146 people you get 325 paid entry fees. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From kerlock at comcast.net Tue Aug 4 10:35:45 2009 From: kerlock at comcast.net (Mike Hester) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:35:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing References: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com> <9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> Message-ID: <2A690553C9C84552834BA124531CAA8F@Sanity> Like a radius guage for the leading edges? =) I'm just sayin.....we aren't checkin everything anyway, like Ron said. -Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and > weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition and > the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, but how > about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What about the > rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also check every > airplane for them before flying commences? How about random spot > checks after flights to make sure no gyros and autopilots were added > after the original verification? > > There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't verify > for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How about > considering competitors as honorable as a start and only check the > size and weight measurement for the finalists. Otherwise, we need to > check everyone's airplanes for complying with all the rules. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > >> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I have >> no problem letting them. >> >> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing or >> a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story >> >> MattK >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Kane >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} >> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is >> a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry about >> anybody else. >> >> Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would >> certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official >> flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice >> fllights in. >> >> As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much. >> A quick check to insure the batteries installed at measurement time >> are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has >> entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with a smaller tank >> for nitro planes, but same thing goes. >> >> >> Bob Kane >> getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> From: Bill's Email >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> Joe Lachowski wrote: >>> >>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P >>> {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >>> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 4 10:44:48 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:44:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Message-ID: <712978.27093.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mike: I can bring a set of L.E. radius gauges if that helps... LOL ? Ron: I wouldn't worry too much about gyros and autopilots. These add considerable weight. VBG ? John Pavlick ? --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Mike Hester wrote: From: Mike Hester Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 2:35 PM Like a radius guage for the leading edges? =) I'm just sayin.....we aren't checkin everything anyway, like Ron said. -Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and? weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition and? the conducting of random spot checks.? OK.? Let's do that, but how? about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book.? What about the? rules against gyros and autopilots?? Shouldn't we also check every? airplane for them before flying commences?? How about random spot? checks after flights to make sure no gyros and autopilots were added? after the original verification? > > There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't verify? for compliance..? Do we want to go down that road?? How about? considering competitors as honorable as a start and only check the? size and weight measurement for the finalists.? Otherwise, we need to? check everyone's airplanes for complying with all the rules. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > >> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I have? no problem letting them. >> >> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing or? a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story >> >> MattK >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Kane >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} >> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is? a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry about? anybody else. >> >> Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would? certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official? flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice? fllights in. >> >> As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much.???A quick check to insure the batteries installed at measurement time? are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has? entered.? I can't imagine saving much weight with a smaller tank? for nitro planes, but same thing goes. >> >> >> Bob Kane >> getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> From: Bill's Email >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> Joe Lachowski wrote: >>> >>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgghome at comcast.net Tue Aug 4 10:50:31 2009 From: jgghome at comcast.net (John Gayer) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:50:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <4A7876B7.8090702@cox.net> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net><27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> <4A7868A8.3060902@cox.net> <9067A1B94FA9436287C1D4B8ED2275B2@UncleJasPC> <4A786BBE.3080307@cox.net> <4A787401.4090902@comcast.net> <4A7876B7.8090702@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A7882E8.5000504@comcast.net> I can only quote the original rule under discussion: " 8.2.5: There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the Masters class. Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the FAI class at any contest but not both." Clearly the AMA is of two minds as to whether F3A is an AMA class or not. John Bill's Email wrote: > John Gayer wrote: >> Why is this rule necessary rather than make it at the discretion of >> the CD? If F3A is not an AMA class and there is no mandatory >> advancement, why not allow flying in both? Attendance is low enough >> at many local contests that the extra entry fee would be appreciated >> by the sponsoring club and the extra competition by the competitors >> in the two classes. >> >> John Gayer >> > > > Beats me, I did not write it, I just quoted it. > > Having said that, a CD is free to do just about anything they want as > long as it does no effect safety. All they have to do is put it in the > sanction application, get it approved, and publish that variance at > least 30 days prior to the contest. > > BTW - many say that F3A is not an AMA class however it is listed as > one of the five pattern classes which in my mind does in fact define > it as an AMA pattern class: > > 7. Pattern event classes: The Pattern event shall be divided into five > (5) classes. The first four (4) shall (in order of increasing > difficulty) be referred to as Sportsman, Intermediate, Advanced, and > Masters. The fifth class shall be referred to as the FAI class. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 4 10:57:05 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 18:57:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> Message-ID: AH just when I was starting to contemplate the prospect of adding some kind of 'liquid fuel ballast' to an electric. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:15 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition and the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, but how about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What about the rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also check every airplane for them before flying commences? How about random spot checks after flights to make sure no gyros and autopilots were added after the original verification? There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't verify for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How about considering competitors as honorable as a start and only check the size and weight measurement for the finalists. Otherwise, we need to check everyone's airplanes for complying with all the rules. Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I have > no problem letting them. > > If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing or > a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story > > MattK > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Kane > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} > I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is > a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry about > anybody else. > > Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would > certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official > flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice > fllights in. > > As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much. > A quick check to insure the batteries installed at measurement time > are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has > entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with a smaller tank > for nitro planes, but same thing goes. > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > From: Bill's Email > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Joe Lachowski wrote: >> >> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P >> {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 4 15:44:20 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:44:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <1618017494-1249410339-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-390541760-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <4A78666C.8060701@cox.net><27A4FCDA8F2C48A5936F024D50D65198@UncleJasPC> <1618017494-1249410339-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-390541760-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: Hmmmmm, you're right Mike... Maybe I should use the 110 or even pull out the Integral again. I've already been beat once in Advanced at the Nats... don't want that again. 5 more flights today... even waited for some rain to pass. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:25 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > Jason - I like your idea as I think it helps with the much chronicled reource shortage at the nats as you will have to judge > twice. Have fun, just don't get beat....you know there are a lot of up and comers in advanced looking to make a name for > themselves and bagging an uncle jas would be huge for them :-) > > In all seriousness....get to the practice field and kick a** at the worlds. > > Mike > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "J Shu" > > Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:51:24 > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 4 15:46:14 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:46:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: <9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> References: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com> <9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> Message-ID: In Argentina they actually counted the plugs going into the Rx's and followed the leads. Granted there are probably some planes where you can't see where the leads go, but if you had more plugs than servos (or controller) then you were probably asked to explain. I would imagine the FI guys needed to explain the extra plugs. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:14 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition >and the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, but how about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What >about the rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also check every airplane for them before flying commences? How >about random spot checks after flights to make sure no gyros and autopilots were added after the original verification? > > There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't verify for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How about > considering competitors as honorable as a start and only check the size and weight measurement for the finalists. Otherwise, we > need to check everyone's airplanes for complying with all the rules. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: > >> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I have no problem letting them. >> >> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing or a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story >> >> MattK >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bob Kane >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} >> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry >> about anybody else. >> >> Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any official >> flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last practice fllights in. >> >> As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so much. A quick check to insure the batteries installed at >> measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class the pilot has entered. I can't imagine saving much weight >> with a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. >> >> >> Bob Kane >> getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> From: Bill's Email >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> Joe Lachowski wrote: >>> >>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >>> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Tue Aug 4 15:56:29 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:56:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com> <9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> Message-ID: Uhhhh. What's an "FI" guy? Front Induction, Free Ignition, Federal Institution, Full Independence, Final Inspection or something else? Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 6:46 PM, J Shu wrote: > In Argentina they actually counted the plugs going into the Rx's > and followed the leads. Granted there are probably some planes > where you can't see where the leads go, but if you had more plugs > than servos (or controller) then you were probably asked to > explain. I would imagine the FI guys needed to explain the extra > plugs. > > Regards, > Jason > www.shulmanaviation.com > www.composite-arf.com > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > >> I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and >> weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition >> and the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, >> but how about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What >> about the rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also >> check every airplane for them before flying commences? How about >> random spot checks after flights to make sure no gyros and >> autopilots were added after the original verification? >> >> There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't >> verify for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How >> about considering competitors as honorable as a start and only >> check the size and weight measurement for the finalists. >> Otherwise, we need to check everyone's airplanes for complying >> with all the rules. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: >> >>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I >>> have no problem letting them. >>> >>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing >>> or a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story >>> >>> MattK >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bob Kane >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >>> >>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} >>> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event >>> is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry >>> about anybody else. >>> >>> Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would >>> certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any >>> official flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last >>> practice fllights in. >>> >>> As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so >>> much. A quick check to insure the batteries installed at >>> measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class >>> the pilot has entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with >>> a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. >>> >>> >>> Bob Kane >>> getterflash at yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> From: Bill's Email >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >>> >>> Joe Lachowski wrote: >>>> >>>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P >>>> {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >>>> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font- >>>> family:Verdana;} >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 4 16:44:49 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:44:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com><9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> Message-ID: Fuel injection.......my guess Dave -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 7:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Uhhhh. What's an "FI" guy? Front Induction, Free Ignition, Federal Institution, Full Independence, Final Inspection or something else? Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 6:46 PM, J Shu wrote: > In Argentina they actually counted the plugs going into the Rx's > and followed the leads. Granted there are probably some planes > where you can't see where the leads go, but if you had more plugs > than servos (or controller) then you were probably asked to > explain. I would imagine the FI guys needed to explain the extra > plugs. > > Regards, > Jason > www.shulmanaviation.com > www.composite-arf.com > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > >> I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and >> weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition >> and the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, >> but how about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What >> about the rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also >> check every airplane for them before flying commences? How about >> random spot checks after flights to make sure no gyros and >> autopilots were added after the original verification? >> >> There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't >> verify for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How >> about considering competitors as honorable as a start and only >> check the size and weight measurement for the finalists. >> Otherwise, we need to check everyone's airplanes for complying >> with all the rules. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: >> >>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I >>> have no problem letting them. >>> >>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing >>> or a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story >>> >>> MattK >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bob Kane >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >>> >>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} >>> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event >>> is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry >>> about anybody else. >>> >>> Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would >>> certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any >>> official flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last >>> practice fllights in. >>> >>> As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so >>> much. A quick check to insure the batteries installed at >>> measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class >>> the pilot has entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with >>> a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. >>> >>> >>> Bob Kane >>> getterflash at yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> From: Bill's Email >>> To: General pattern discussion >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >>> >>> Joe Lachowski wrote: >>>> >>>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P >>>> {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >>>> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font- >>>> family:Verdana;} >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Tue Aug 4 16:57:19 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 00:57:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: <88921.24885.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com><8CBE3301EB6FA26-1FB8-1B@WEBMAIL-DZ09.sysops.aol.com><9B621045-AD9B-4CEA-B0B9-F2D1324DE5E7@cox.net> Message-ID: Oh, yeah. Never mind. Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 7:41 PM, Dave wrote: > Fuel injection.......my guess > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron > Van Putte > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 7:57 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > Uhhhh. What's an "FI" guy? Front Induction, Free Ignition, Federal > Institution, Full Independence, Final Inspection or something else? > > Ron VP > > > On Aug 4, 2009, at 6:46 PM, J Shu wrote: > >> In Argentina they actually counted the plugs going into the Rx's >> and followed the leads. Granted there are probably some planes >> where you can't see where the leads go, but if you had more plugs >> than servos (or controller) then you were probably asked to >> explain. I would imagine the FI guys needed to explain the extra >> plugs. >> >> Regards, >> Jason >> www.shulmanaviation.com >> www.composite-arf.com >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:14 PM >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >> >> >>> I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and >>> weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition >>> and the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, >>> but how about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What >>> about the rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also >>> check every airplane for them before flying commences? How about >>> random spot checks after flights to make sure no gyros and >>> autopilots were added after the original verification? >>> >>> There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't >>> verify for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How >>> about considering competitors as honorable as a start and only >>> check the size and weight measurement for the finalists. >>> Otherwise, we need to check everyone's airplanes for complying >>> with all the rules. >>> >>> Ron VP >>> >>> On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: >>> >>>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I >>>> have no problem letting them. >>>> >>>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing >>>> or a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story >>>> >>>> MattK >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Bob Kane >>>> To: General pattern discussion >>>> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >>>> >>>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin: >>>> 0px;} >>>> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event >>>> is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry >>>> about anybody else. >>>> >>>> Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would >>>> certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any >>>> official flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last >>>> practice fllights in. >>>> >>>> As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so >>>> much. A quick check to insure the batteries installed at >>>> measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class >>>> the pilot has entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with >>>> a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. >>>> >>>> >>>> Bob Kane >>>> getterflash at yahoo.com >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Bill's Email >>>> To: General pattern discussion >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >>>> >>>> Joe Lachowski wrote: >>>>> >>>>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P >>>>> {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >>>>> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font- >>>>> family:Verdana;} >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 4 17:58:09 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:58:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Message-ID: <745811.47198.qm@web112605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? ? Colin. __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Tue Aug 4 18:04:00 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:04:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Message-ID: We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple weeks. Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly less. Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged. It makes a difference. Don In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? Colin. ____________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! _Get it Now for Free!_ (http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 4 18:07:49 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:07:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <47879.36174.qm@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Wow that's low. I think "Weak signals" is asking for 96dB so I should'nt have to?dial it back much. ? Thanks much. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: From: AtwoodDon at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:03 PM We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple weeks.? Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly less.? Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged.? It makes a difference. ? Don ? In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? ? Colin. The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adriancwong at earthlink.net Tue Aug 4 18:09:29 2009 From: adriancwong at earthlink.net (adriancwong at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:09:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Message-ID: <4104720.1249438167632.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Don and I have been testing props on the last few weeks. As he mentioned, Coolpower 30% nitro on wood ProLine with APC 18.5x12 wpn shortened to 18x12 with reshaped prop tip. Adrian -----Original Message----- >From: AtwoodDon at aol.com >Sent: Aug 4, 2009 10:03 PM >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB > >We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple >weeks. Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly >less. Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged. It makes a >difference. > >Don > > >In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: > >Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning >18.1X11? > >Colin. > > >____________________________________ >The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! >_Get it Now for Free!_ (http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/) > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy >steps! >(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd >=JulystepsfooterNO115) From AtwoodDon at aol.com Tue Aug 4 18:09:42 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:09:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Message-ID: yeah, we are testing for FAI/F3A limits at 94db. Don In a message dated 8/4/2009 7:08:14 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: Wow that's low. I think "Weak signals" is asking for 96dB so I should'nt have to dial it back much. Thanks much. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: From: AtwoodDon at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:03 PM We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple weeks. Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly less. Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged. It makes a difference. Don In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? Colin. ____________________________________ The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! _Get it Now for Free!_ (http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ____________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list _NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org_ (http://ca.mc1126.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org) _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) ____________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. _Go to Yahoo! Answers._ (http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au Tue Aug 4 18:10:00 2009 From: Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au (Koenig, Tom) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:10:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB In-Reply-To: <47879.36174.qm@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <47879.36174.qm@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394963@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> Hi Chaps, Any of you running the 19 x 11 on the CDI? Thanks....I'm about to order some and was wondering ( I haven't flown the engine yet) Tom Koenig INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN ActewAGL Telephone 02 6248 3428 Facsimile 02 6248 3482 GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 www.actewagl.com.au ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2009 12:08 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Wow that's low. I think "Weak signals" is asking for 96dB so I should'nt have to dial it back much. Thanks much. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: From: AtwoodDon at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:03 PM We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple weeks. Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly less. Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged. It makes a difference. Don In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? Colin. ________________________________ The new Internet Explorer(r) 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. ________________________________ ************************************************************************ *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the consent of the sender. WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. Before opening or using attachments, please check for viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any affected attachments. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the organisation. ************************************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adriancwong at earthlink.net Tue Aug 4 18:12:43 2009 From: adriancwong at earthlink.net (adriancwong at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:12:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Message-ID: <10674197.1249438361958.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> If your plane is within the 5 Kg limit, 7,300 to 7,400 is all you need. My mid throttle is only at 6.200, and I rarely goes above 3/4 throttle. -----Original Message----- >From: colin chariandy >Sent: Aug 4, 2009 10:07 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB > >Wow that's low. I think "Weak signals" is asking for 96dB so I should'nt have to?dial it back much. >? >Thanks much. > >--- On Tue, 8/4/09, AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: > > >From: AtwoodDon at aol.com >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:03 PM > > > >We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple weeks.? Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly less.? Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged.? It makes a difference. >? >Don >? > >In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: > > > > > >Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? >? >Colin. > > >The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > __________________________________________________________________ >Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > >http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 4 18:16:19 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:16:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB In-Reply-To: <10674197.1249438361958.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <88136.22235.qm@web112606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I agree, power is not the problem...I'll just have to fiddle with the throttle curve to get back the same feel. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, adriancwong at earthlink.net wrote: From: adriancwong at earthlink.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:12 PM If your plane is within the 5 Kg limit, 7,300 to 7,400 is all you need. My mid throttle is only at 6.200, and I rarely goes above 3/4 throttle. -----Original Message----- >From: colin chariandy >Sent: Aug 4, 2009 10:07 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB > >Wow that's low. I think "Weak signals" is asking for 96dB so I should'nt have to?dial it back much. >? >Thanks much. > >--- On Tue, 8/4/09, AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: > > >From: AtwoodDon at aol.com >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:03 PM > > > >We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple weeks.? Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly less.? Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged.? It makes a difference. >? >Don >? > >In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: > > > > > >Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? >? >Colin. > > >The new Internet Explorer? 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > >? ? ? __________________________________________________________________ >Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > >http://www.flickr.com/gift/ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 4 18:23:13 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:23:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque Message-ID: <400191.56774.qm@web112619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> After a year of neglect I started (trying) to fly F again. Since then I moved the CG fwd quite a bit and now the KE loop seems to take quite?a bit of rudder deflection and more throttle than I recall. ? I'm using S9151 at 6V in an Integral. ? Is that enough servo? ? Colin __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From troy at troynewman.net Tue Aug 4 18:26:00 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:26:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB In-Reply-To: <745811.47198.qm@web112605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <745811.47198.qm@web112605.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 7600-7800rpm passes 94db If your model is not "loud" meaning composite drummy type fuse then some foam in the cowl helps...Hollow fuse and hollow wings and such will act like a megaphone. Seal any belly pan connections so they are not banging together, rubbing, and such. Any holes on the right side of the model stuff with foam. Totally enclosed header and pipe is quieter. The 18" dia makes noise above these rpms. Take the 18.1-11 and remove about 3/16" from each tip and reshape. Clean up the L.E. of the prop and make sure it doesn't have nicks in it. Use a velocity stack it will also help the noise. The last little carb opening creates very little power for the amount noise gained. SO set it all up and detune the top end with ATV until the noise meter is happy. A good solid wood model will yield about 76-7800 and make noise. A composite model will be less RPM because the noise drum affect inside the fuse. This is where dampen it with foam from the Engine box. Exhaust deflectors will also have an effect. If you are trying to make AMA noise limits its 96Db....and the microphone set is 30mm off the surface. Mic is off the right hand side of the model 3meters away and downwind. Point the mic directly inline at the prop, then turn it 70degs toward the right...meaning the microphone is 70degs away from the nose of the model. This is where readings are taken in AMA classes. The limit is 96db(A) use slow response and "A" weighting on the meter. F3A measurements are totally different. First off the model points into the wind. The meter is set off the right side directly inline and pointing at the prop meaning pointed at the prop right inline with it....but the meter is 90degs to the wind. Readings are taken here and the limit is 94db(A) Penalty for AMA class is a raw score % deduction for 96-98db(A), in F3A it is ZERO for the flight over 94db(A) I have done extensive testing on the 170's and the noise meter....tons and tons of props and played with all kinds of ideas to make things quiet. There are lots of things that help. Nothing is a secret bullet that gives 1-2db other than the RPM and the vel stack. The type of fuse is so huge its not even funny. Troy Newman From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 6:58 PM To: NSRCA Mailing List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? Colin. ________________________________ The new Internet Explorer(r) 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From troy at troynewman.net Tue Aug 4 18:41:50 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:41:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB In-Reply-To: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394963@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> References: <47879.36174.qm@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394963@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> Message-ID: Tom, Yes the 19-11 is excellent on the engine. Its sounds different and low RPMS about 7300 or so. I have been playing with some of them modifying the prop a little and don't have anything specific that is better...but I have a couple things I have done that I like...but they are not repeatable. Sort of a 1 of a kind prop if you know what I mean. Depending on your model and conditions the 18.11 and 12 are really good on the CDI. In the 115deg summertime here in PHX AZ I actually like the 18-11 it's a light load and better power in the heat. The 19-11 is a pretty good load on the engine. You have to be careful to get it set properly. I'm running 5% oil content in my engines and have excellent results so far....in the last year. I think the engines run a little cooler and more consistent without the extra oil. The problem is the needle becomes sensitive, in some cases very sensitive with the lower oil contents. This is one reason the min recommended by YS is 10% oil. Its easier to set. My idea was I wanted to see how long I could go on 5% oil. I have one engine at about 30gallons (350+ flights) of 5% oil and another at about 200flights. They are both just humming along awesome....I fly on pavement all the time, so bearings are not an issue I can go 600+flights before I change just because. I usually will put a new ring in about 300-400 flights. A ring is like $20. My first CDI is still up on power and doesn't need a new ring yet so I'm just running it until I have a problem. I find the CDI is more consistent and cooler in most cases than the glow plug version. I don't have heating issues in the summer here in PHX so much with the CDI. The Glow version will get temperamental at these high ambient temps. The CDI doesn't seem to care. Now I will say normal 30% heli fuel performance (low vis oil) or the Low Smoke version is the 20% regular oil. Both work excellent in the engine. I just really like the 5% oil content is performs best for me...but you have to be a little better on the needle valve to run the low oil content down below 10%. Takes a little bit of an ear for the engine. I usually will break the engine in on the regular low vis oil 30% heli and then about 1-2gallons go to the 5% oil content. I have had extremely good results this way. Troy From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Koenig, Tom Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 7:10 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Hi Chaps, Any of you running the 19 x 11 on the CDI? Thanks....I'm about to order some and was wondering ( I haven't flown the engine yet) Tom Koenig INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN ActewAGL Telephone 02 6248 3428 Facsimile 02 6248 3482 GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 www.actewagl.com.au ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2009 12:08 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB Wow that's low. I think "Weak signals" is asking for 96dB so I should'nt have to dial it back much. Thanks much. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: From: AtwoodDon at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS170 at 96dB To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:03 PM We have been doing some testing here in Sacramento over the last couple weeks. Looks like 73-7400 on 30% is about the max to make 94db or slightly less. Make sure the prop tips are clean, not chipped or dinged. It makes a difference. Don In a message dated 8/4/2009 6:58:34 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cchariandy at yahoo.ca writes: Does anybody know what rpm will pass a noise test for a YS170 turning 18.1X11? Colin. ________________________________ The new Internet Explorer(r) 8 - Faster, safer, easier. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. ________________________________ ************************************************************************ *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the consent of the sender. WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. Before opening or using attachments, please check for viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any affected attachments. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the organisation. ************************************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Tue Aug 4 18:49:35 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 02:49:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBE38E734B76E8-ABC-205F@webmail-dd10.sysops.aol.com> Isn't this Racing??? It's Formula 1 -----Original Message----- From: Dave <DaveL322 at comcast.net> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 8:41 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Fuel injection.......my guess Dave -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 7:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing Uhhhh. What's an "FI" guy? Front Induction, Free Ignition, Federal Institution, Full Independence, Final Inspection or something else? Ron VP On Aug 4, 2009, at 6:46 PM, J Shu wrote: > In Argentina they actually counted the plugs going into the Rx's > and followed the leads. Granted there are probably some planes > where you can't see where the leads go, but if you had more plugs > than servos (or controller) then you were probably asked to > explain. I would imagine the FI guys needed to explain the extra > plugs. > > Regards, > Jason > www.shulmanaviation.com > www.composite-arf.com > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net> > To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:14 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing > > >> I am getting a bit impatient with this discussion about size and >> weight measurement for everyone's airplanes before competition >> and the conducting of random spot checks. OK. Let's do that, >> but how about if we enforce EVERY rule in the rule book. What >> about the rules against gyros and autopilots? Shouldn't we also >> check every airplane for them before flying commences? How about >> random spot checks after flights to make sure no gyros and >> autopilots were added after the original verification? >> >> There are other rules already in the rule book that we don't >> verify for compliance.. Do we want to go down that road? How >> abo ut considering competitors as honorable as a start and only >> check the size and weight measurement for the finalists. >> Otherwise, we need to check everyone's airplanes for complying >> with all the rules. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: >> >>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with an overweight plane, I >>> have no problem letting them. >>> >>> If someone wants/needs to "cheat" with preprogrammed sequencing >>> or a larger airframe than 2 X 2 m, a different story >>> >>> MattK >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Bob Kane <getterflash at yahoo.com> >>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>> Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2009 9:50 am >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & W eighing >>> >>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 DIV {margin:0px;} >>> I agree, trying to compare ourselves to any other AMA NATS event >>> is a slippery slope. Let's clean our own house and not worry >>> about anybody else. >>> >>> Since I fall squarely in the "social" NATS category I would >>> certainly volunteer to tech inspect aircraft prior to any >>> official flying. I'm not going to gain much by getting a few last >>> practice fllights in. >>> >>> As for the possibility of cheating, well, we can only do so >>> much. A quick check to insure the batteries installed at >>> measurement time are capable of a full flight for whatever class >>> the pilot has entered. I can't imagine saving much weight with >>> a smaller tank for nitro planes, but same thing goes. >> > >>> >>> Bob Kane >>> getterflash@ yahoo.com >>> >>> >>> From: Bill's Email <wemodels at cox.net> >>> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:32:09 AM >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Inspection & Weighing >>> >>> Joe Lachowski wrote: >>>> >>>> #AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046-b74a-8c614ebbcf50 .hmmessage P >>>> {margin:0px;padding:0px;}#AOLMsgPart_3_9ae5f3a0-a5b0-4046- >>>> b74a-8c614ebbcf50 body.hmmessage{font-size:10pt;font- >>>> family:Verdana;} >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chadnortheast at shaw.ca Tue Aug 4 19:08:32 2009 From: chadnortheast at shaw.ca (Chad Northeast) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:08:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque In-Reply-To: <400191.56774.qm@web112619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <400191.56774.qm@web112619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In my opinion its not, myself and probably others ( I know Jason does) use the 9156, which is around 350 in-oz at 6V.? I would put at least 200-250 on. Chad ----- Original Message ----- From: colin chariandy Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 8:23 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque To: NSRCA Mailing List > After a year of neglect I started (trying) to fly F again. Since > then I moved the CG fwd quite a bit and now the KE loop seems to > take quite?a bit of rudder deflection and more throttle than I recall. > ? > I'm using S9151 at 6V in an Integral. > ? > Is that enough servo? > ? > Colin > > > ????? > __________________________________________________________________Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 4 20:10:18 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 04:10:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <835400.64259.qm@web112612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I had a feeling you were going to say that... ? Thanks. --- On Tue, 8/4/09, Chad Northeast wrote: From: Chad Northeast Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 11:08 PM In my opinion its not, myself and probably others ( I know Jason does) use the 9156, which is around 350 in-oz at 6V.? I would put at least 200-250 on. Chad ----- Original Message ----- From: colin chariandy Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 8:23 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque To: NSRCA Mailing List > After a year of neglect I started (trying) to fly F again. Since > then I moved the CG fwd quite a bit and now the KE loop seems to > take quite?a bit of rudder deflection and more throttle than I recall. > ? > I'm using S9151 at 6V in an Integral. > ? > Is that enough servo? > ? > Colin > > > ????? > __________________________________________________________________Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane with All new Yahoo! Mail: http://ca.promos.yahoo.com/newmail/overview2/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 4 22:02:56 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 06:02:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque In-Reply-To: <835400.64259.qm@web112612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <835400.64259.qm@web112612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A79208E.2000001@cox.net> And now there is the 9157. It is "only" 425 in-oz or torque. Same size as the 9156. http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wgainf100p.pgm?I=FUTM0217 From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Tue Aug 4 22:31:28 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 06:31:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque In-Reply-To: References: <400191.56774.qm@web112619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3D2E817947ED41BEA3E502FD8A05C66C@UncleJasPC> Just changed most of my servos around... BL 352 on rudder, BL551 on ailerons (gonna try BL151) but the stabs still have 9650's :) But Chad is right. The 9151 is good for Masters down, but I was using a 9155 which worked fine, then switched to the 9156, but didn't notice any change really. The BL is a bit more sensitive. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Chad Northeast To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 11:08 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque In my opinion its not, myself and probably others ( I know Jason does) use the 9156, which is around 350 in-oz at 6V. I would put at least 200-250 on. Chad ----- Original Message ----- From: colin chariandy Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009 8:23 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque To: NSRCA Mailing List > After a year of neglect I started (trying) to fly F again. Since > then I moved the CG fwd quite a bit and now the KE loop seems to > take quite a bit of rudder deflection and more throttle than I recall. > > I'm using S9151 at 6V in an Integral. > > Is that enough servo? > > Colin > > > > __________________________________________________________________Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! > > http://www.flickr.com/gift/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 4 22:37:30 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 06:37:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] What is enough rudder servo torque In-Reply-To: <3D2E817947ED41BEA3E502FD8A05C66C@UncleJasPC> References: <400191.56774.qm@web112619.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3D2E817947ED41BEA3E502FD8A05C66C@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <4A7928A9.1000000@cox.net> J Shu wrote: > Just changed most of my servos around... BL 352 on rudder, I had not noticed this one before. Very cool! http://www.gpdealera.com/cgi-bin/wgainf100p.pgm?I=FUTM0512 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 06:33:22 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:33:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <208006.55602.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <208006.55602.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, MI? There are 4 locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. Thanks Chris Anthony Abdullah wrote: > I will book my room at the Baymont this evening! > > Thanks > Anthony > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Kane > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 > *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some research > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when considering > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds (734) 384-1600 > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 06:42:30 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:42:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart Message-ID: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I just got mine yesterday. Yes it was delayed due to some changing of the designer. Chris told me it'll be back on schedule soon. I want to thank Dave Lockhart for the article he wrote about his trip to South Africa. I'm sure it took him a longtime to prepare. Dave had been sending a number of us daily email updates when he went earlier this spring. I felt like I was on the trip with him. Dave you should be an author. Kudo's to all involved with the K Factor this month. Mike From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Wed Aug 5 06:43:48 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:43:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <4A799826.5050602@hotmail.com> References: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <208006.55602.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A799826.5050602@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EB@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Correct, you will want the one in Monroe. Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, MI? There are 4 locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. Thanks Chris Anthony Abdullah wrote: I will book my room at the Baymont this evening! Thanks Anthony ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some research today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when considering cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds (734) 384-1600 Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 06:47:07 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:47:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EB@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> References: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <208006.55602.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A799826.5050602@hotmail.com> <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EB@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: Thanks Andrew I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto and I may be coming. Chris Andrew Jesky wrote: > > Correct, you will want the one in Monroe. > > > > Andrew > > > > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris > *Sent:* Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak > Signals Contest August 8-9 > > > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, MI? There are 4 locations listed > in the Toledo vicinity. > > Thanks > > Chris > > Anthony Abdullah wrote: > > I will book my room at the Baymont this evening! > > > > Thanks > > Anthony > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Bob Kane > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > ; D4 > > *Sent:* Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some research > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when considering > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds (734) 384-1600 > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Wed Aug 5 06:48:14 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:48:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <4A799B61.4000708@hotmail.com> References: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <208006.55602.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A799826.5050602@hotmail.com> <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EB@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> <4A799B61.4000708@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EC@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> That would be great if you could make it. It should be a lot of fun. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Thanks Andrew I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto and I may be coming. Chris Andrew Jesky wrote: Correct, you will want the one in Monroe. Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, MI? There are 4 locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. Thanks Chris Anthony Abdullah wrote: I will book my room at the Baymont this evening! Thanks Anthony ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some research today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when considering cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds (734) 384-1600 Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 07:06:40 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:06:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EC@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Forget Chris just send Lotto the pattern dog. I really wish I could make it so Hana my Lil Chinese fighting dog could teach lotto something about toughness. Lotto's getting way too soft!!! M2 --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Andrew Jesky wrote: > From: Andrew Jesky > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:39 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be great if you > could make it. It should be a lot of > fun. > > ? > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > ? > > Thanks > Andrew > > ?I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto > and I may be coming. > > > > Chris > > > > Andrew Jesky wrote: > > Correct, you will want the one > in Monroe. > > ? > > Andrew > > ? > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > ? > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, > MI?? There are 4 > locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. > > > > Thanks > > > > Chris > > > > Anthony Abdullah wrote: > > > > > > I will book my room at the Baymont > this evening! > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; > D4 > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some > research > > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when > considering > > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. > > > > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > > > Baymont? Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds? > (734) 384-1600 > > > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. > > Bob Kane > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > ? > ? > > > > ? ?? > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ? > > > > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From verne at twmi.rr.com Wed Aug 5 07:09:24 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (verne at twmi.rr.com) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:09:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090805150922.TTKG2.386840.root@hrndva-web20-z01> You're not coming????? Verne ---- mike mueller wrote: > Forget Chris just send Lotto the pattern dog. I really wish I could make it so Hana my Lil Chinese fighting dog could teach lotto something about toughness. Lotto's getting way too soft!!! M2 > > --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Andrew Jesky wrote: > > > From: Andrew Jesky > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:39 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be great if you > > could make it. It should be a lot of > > fun. > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > > Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > Thanks > > Andrew > > > > ?I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto > > and I may be coming. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Andrew Jesky wrote: > > > > Correct, you will want the one > > in Monroe. > > > > ? > > > > Andrew > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > > On Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, > > MI?? There are 4 > > locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Anthony Abdullah wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I will book my room at the Baymont > > this evening! > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; > > D4 > > > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > > > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > > the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some > > research > > > > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when > > considering > > > > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > > > > > > > Baymont? Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds? > > (734) 384-1600 > > > > > > > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. > > > > Bob Kane > > > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > ? > > > > > > > > ? ?? > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ? > > > > > > > > > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Wed Aug 5 07:14:07 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:14:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EC@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F87@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> You're not going to make it?? I was planning to bring foamy's and fishing poles. The hotel just won't be the same. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:07 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Forget Chris just send Lotto the pattern dog. I really wish I could make it so Hana my Lil Chinese fighting dog could teach lotto something about toughness. Lotto's getting way too soft!!! M2 --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Andrew Jesky wrote: > From: Andrew Jesky > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:39 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be great if you > could make it. It should be a lot of > fun. > > ? > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > ? > > Thanks > Andrew > > ?I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto > and I may be coming. > > > > Chris > > > > Andrew Jesky wrote: > > Correct, you will want the one > in Monroe. > > ? > > Andrew > > ? > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > ? > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, > MI?? There are 4 > locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. > > > > Thanks > > > > Chris > > > > Anthony Abdullah wrote: > > > > > > I will book my room at the Baymont > this evening! > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; > D4 > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some > research > > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when > considering > > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. > > > > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > > > Baymont? Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds? > (734) 384-1600 > > > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. > > Bob Kane > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > ? > ? > > > > ? ?? > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ? > > > > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/04/09 05:57:00 From rliprie at centurytel.net Wed Aug 5 07:25:02 2009 From: rliprie at centurytel.net (RLiprie) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:25:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] leaving hobby, stuff for sale References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> Guys, I have two Pass Ports that are ready to fly for sale, one was what I flew last year and the other is new and has never flown. They both of Hacker 14XL motors, mixture of 9411 and 8411 servos, 99 spin speed controllers, thunder power battery packs, flight power Lithium polymer RX packs. I also have thunder power chargers for my flight packs. So I have alot of stuff. Selling it all, anything you want please email me at mliprie at yahoo.com and you can also ask if I have something. Thanks, Matt From mups1953 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 07:31:20 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 15:31:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F87@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <516308.97261.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry dudes. 4 wekends in a row and work constraints have forced this decision. I'm hurtin for certain!!! Take care of my Doctor friend please. He has special needs. Mike --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 10:08 AM > You're not going to make it??? I > was planning to bring foamy's and fishing poles.? The > hotel just won't be the same. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:07 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the > Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > > Forget Chris just send Lotto the pattern dog. I really > wish I could make it so Hana my Lil Chinese fighting dog > could teach lotto something about toughness. Lotto's getting > way too soft!!! M2 > > --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Andrew Jesky > wrote: > > > From: Andrew Jesky > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:39 AM > > > > > > > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > That would be great if you > > could make it. It should be a lot of > > fun. > > > >? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On > > Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > > > Thanks > > Andrew > > > > ?I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto > > and I may be coming. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Andrew Jesky wrote:? > > > > Correct, you will want the one > > in Monroe. > > > > ? > > > > Andrew > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > > On Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, > > MI?? There are 4 > > locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Anthony Abdullah wrote:? > > > > > > > > > > > > I will book my room at the Baymont > > this evening! > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; > > D4 > > > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > > > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > > the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did > some > > research > > > > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal > when > > considering > > > > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont > Inn. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > > > > > > > Baymont? Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds? > > (734) 384-1600 > > > > > > > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals > contest. > > > > Bob Kane > > > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > ? > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release > Date: 08/04/09 05:57:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 08:07:58 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:07:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart In-Reply-To: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <724437.9215.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ditto, this is a great issue . . . Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: mike mueller To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 10:41:28 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart I just got mine yesterday. Yes it was delayed due to some changing of the designer. Chris told me it'll be back on schedule soon. I want to thank Dave Lockhart for the article he wrote about his trip to South Africa. I'm sure it took him a longtime to prepare. Dave had been sending a number of us daily email updates when he went earlier this spring. I felt like I was on the trip with him. Dave you should be an author. Kudo's to all involved with the K Factor this month. Mike _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Wed Aug 5 08:14:17 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:14:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart In-Reply-To: <724437.9215.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dave wrote a great article. I had the opportunity to live in Pretoria for 18 months and in Durban for 9 mo. Great people and a beautiful country! A lot of challenges if you are a skin diver! I'm glad he got to see some of Kruger but it really takes a week.... Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 12:08 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart Ditto, this is a great issue . . . Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: mike mueller To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 10:41:28 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart I just got mine yesterday. Yes it was delayed due to some changing of the designer. Chris told me it'll be back on schedule soon. I want to thank Dave Lockhart for the article he wrote about his trip to South Africa. I'm sure it took him a longtime to prepare. Dave had been sending a number of us daily email updates when he went earlier this spring. I felt like I was on the trip with him. Dave you should be an author. Kudo's to all involved with the K Factor this month. Mike _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From joddino at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 5 08:28:26 2009 From: joddino at socal.rr.com (James Oddino) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:28:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> Message-ID: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to make sure your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC. It would need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at least one volt. I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. Jim From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 08:33:38 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:33:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F87@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EC@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8F87@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <142573.3085.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bring the foamies and the poles anyway, we will need them to "fish" the planes out of the Carbon Forrest in Tim J's backyard. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 11:08:07 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 You're not going to make it?? I was planning to bring foamy's and fishing poles. The hotel just won't be the same. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:07 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Forget Chris just send Lotto the pattern dog. I really wish I could make it so Hana my Lil Chinese fighting dog could teach lotto something about toughness. Lotto's getting way too soft!!! M2 --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Andrew Jesky wrote: > From: Andrew Jesky > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:39 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be great if you > could make it. It should be a lot of > fun. > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > Thanks > Andrew > > I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto > and I may be coming. > > > > Chris > > > > Andrew Jesky wrote: > > Correct, you will want the one > in Monroe. > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Chris > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > for the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, > MI? There are 4 > locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. > > > > Thanks > > > > Chris > > > > Anthony Abdullah wrote: > > > > > > I will book my room at the Baymont > this evening! > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; > D4 > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > the Weak Signals > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some > research > > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when > considering > > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. > > > > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > > > Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds > (734) 384-1600 > > > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. > > Bob Kane > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/04/09 05:57:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Wed Aug 5 08:41:49 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:41:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4A79B64C.8030308@cox.net> James Oddino wrote: > > Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in > the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to make sure > your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC. It would > need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at least > one volt. I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. > > Jim > __ The old i4c C-Volt should work. I forget the max voltage but I think it would work. Not sure where you could get one. Radio South has a loaded voltmeter that uses a similar unit in it. Maybe Tony can tell you if that meter would work. I track packs using a small piece of red Velcro. When I take a pack out of a plane I stick a small piece of red Velcro on each pack. I remove it when the pack goes on the charger. That way I can tell at a glance if a pack is ready to go or not. You could even go one step beyond and stick a green piece of Velcro on charged packs. From wemodels at cox.net Wed Aug 5 08:43:01 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:43:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4A79B694.1030203@cox.net> Not sure of the max voltage: http://www.radiosouthrc.com/onboard_voltage_monitor.htm From tony at radiosouthrc.com Wed Aug 5 08:47:52 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:47:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <4A79B694.1030203@cox.net> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK><0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> <4A79B694.1030203@cox.net> Message-ID: <0E10C5ECE5984C609D5D6BA5A6B6899B@Tony> 20v is max.... Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 12:43 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter Not sure of the max voltage: http://www.radiosouthrc.com/onboard_voltage_monitor.htm _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From schale at optonline.net Wed Aug 5 08:49:35 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:49:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4A79B817.20805@optonline.net> I use this one. http://www.medusaproducts.com/Power-Analyzers/PA-60100T.htm I do not leave it in the plane but it easily checks the packs before flight. Does not require an additional internal battery to power it. Stuart James Oddino wrote: > > Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in > the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to make sure > your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC. It would > need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at least > one volt. I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > From anthonyr105 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 08:56:52 2009 From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com (Anthony Romano) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:56:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: Haven't tried it but there is a display panel available for the Eagle Tree http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/micro.htm Anthony > From: joddino at socal.rr.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:28:24 -0700 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter > > > Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in > the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to make sure > your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC. It would > need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at least > one volt. I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get your vacation photos on your phone! http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Wed Aug 5 09:02:23 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:02:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <891920.40674.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Depends on what you mean by "light". I've used the eLogger from Eagle Tree: ? http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/micro.htm ? But, seeing as how this is pattern, this will probably put a lot of planes over the weight limit. :-)? The nice thing about the elogger is the data logging capability. With the external display, you can program it to display information about the flight as well (min voltage, max amps, mah consumed, etc). ? OTOH, a simple op-amp circuit and a bar graph LED display might do what you need. ? Bob R. --- On Wed, 8/5/09, James Oddino wrote: From: James Oddino Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:28 PM Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in the plane wired across the input to the ESC?? The idea is to make sure your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC.? It would need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at least one volt.? I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. Jim _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthonyr105 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 09:08:49 2009 From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com (Anthony Romano) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:08:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: Ok, I think I get it. Maybe a simple programable ESC function of min start up voltage. For our purpose say the ESC will give a warning tone if the pack is under 40v when initialized. Shouldn't be too complicated. Anthony > From: joddino at socal.rr.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:28:24 -0700 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter > > > Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in > the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to make sure > your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC. It would > need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at least > one volt. I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get free photo software from Windows Live http://www.windowslive.com/online/photos?ocid=PID23393::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_PH_software:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 5 09:24:31 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:24:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <516308.97261.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <516308.97261.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <431844.77269.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mike, It's too bad you are not going to make it, I have been working on a new Sammy Davis Jr. routine just for you. I guess it will have to wait till the district championship / night fly/ steak roast/ pyrotechnic extravaganza. Anthony ________________________________ From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 11:30:18 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Sorry dudes. 4 wekends in a row and work constraints have forced this decision. I'm hurtin for certain!!! Take care of my Doctor friend please. He has special needs. Mike --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 10:08 AM > You're not going to make it??? I > was planning to bring foamy's and fishing poles.? The > hotel just won't be the same. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:07 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the > Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > >? Forget Chris just send Lotto the pattern dog. I really > wish I could make it so Hana my Lil Chinese fighting dog > could teach lotto something about toughness. Lotto's getting > way too soft!!! M2 > > --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Andrew Jesky > wrote: > > > From: Andrew Jesky > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:39 AM > > > > > > > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > That would be great if you > > could make it. It should be a lot of > > fun. > > > >? ? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On > > Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > >? ? > > > > Thanks > > Andrew > > > > ?I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto > > and I may be coming. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Andrew Jesky wrote:? > > > > Correct, you will want the one > > in Monroe. > > > > ? > > > > Andrew > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > > On Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, > > MI?? There are 4 > > locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Anthony Abdullah wrote:? > > > > > > > > > > > > I will book my room at the Baymont > > this evening! > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; > > D4 > > > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > > > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > > the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did > some > > research > > > > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal > when > > considering > > > > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont > Inn. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > > > > > > > Baymont? Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds? > > (734) 384-1600 > > > > > > > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals > contest. > > > > Bob Kane > > > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > ? > > > > > > > >? ? ?? > > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > ?_______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release > Date: 08/04/09 05:57:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerry at buddengineering.com Wed Aug 5 09:44:16 2009 From: jerry at buddengineering.com (Budd Engineering) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:44:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi Jim, I use my WattsUp meter, I just leave it in the plane all the time, Velcro'd in place (makes weight too!). Thx, Jerry Sent from my iPhone On Aug 5, 2009, at 9:28 AM, James Oddino wrote: > > Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in > the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to make > sure your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC. It > would need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at > least one volt. I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From rob at koolsoft.com Wed Aug 5 09:46:16 2009 From: rob at koolsoft.com (Robert L. Beaubien) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:46:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 6th Annual Bob Whitacre Memorial Pattern Contest Message-ID: Hollister, CA @ September 19th & 20th. Jon puts on a great contest. Hope to see you all there. Flyer: http://www.patternflying.net/NewsDetailPage.aspx?ID=56 Pre-Registration: http://www.patternflying.net/TempRegistrationPage.aspx - Robert Beaubien - NSRCA, District 7 Webmaster - "No trees were harmed in the sending of this message, however a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Wed Aug 5 09:47:50 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:47:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: References: <172273.69753.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <22B619D6A67644D4A89217A3460F7775@RDNEWNETWORK> <0708B8BC-0C33-4D54-92C7-E58E43A385F9@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <76EF7984-E58B-4326-8821-242EC628234A@cox.net> My airplane makes weight too. If I leave it alone for a while, it's heavier when I get back. Ron VP On Aug 5, 2009, at 12:44 PM, Budd Engineering wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I use my WattsUp meter, I just leave it in the plane all the time, > Velcro'd in place (makes weight too!). > > Thx, Jerry > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 5, 2009, at 9:28 AM, James Oddino wrote: > >> >> Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left >> in the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to >> make sure your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the >> ESC. It would need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a >> resolution of at least one volt. I want to see a difference >> between 38 and 41 volts. >> >> Jim >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 10:17:05 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 18:17:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 In-Reply-To: <431844.77269.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <516308.97261.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <431844.77269.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <48713.24788.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Better that Billy Crystal? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Anthony Abdullah To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 1:24:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Mike, It's too bad you are not going to make it, I have been working on a new Sammy Davis Jr. routine just for you. I guess it will have to wait till the district championship / night fly/ steak roast/ pyrotechnic extravaganza. Anthony ________________________________ From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 11:30:18 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Sorry dudes. 4 wekends in a row and work constraints have forced this decision. I'm hurtin for certain!!! Take care of my Doctor friend please. He has special needs. Mike --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 10:08 AM > You're not going to make it?? I > was planning to bring foamy's and fishing poles. The > hotel just won't be the same. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 11:07 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the > Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > > Forget Chris just send Lotto the pattern dog. I really > wish I could make it so Hana my Lil Chinese fighting dog > could teach lotto something about toughness. Lotto's getting > way too soft!!! M2 > > --- On Wed, 8/5/09, Andrew Jesky > wrote: > > > From: Andrew Jesky > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 9:39 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That would be great if you > > could make it. It should be a lot of > > fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On > > Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:47 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > Andrew > > > > I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto > > and I may be coming. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Andrew Jesky wrote: > > > > Correct, you will want the one > > in Monroe. > > > > > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > > On Behalf Of Chris > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information > > for the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, > > MI? There are 4 > > locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > Anthony Abdullah wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I will book my room at the Baymont > > this evening! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; > > D4 > > > > Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM > > > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for > > the Weak Signals > > Contest August 8-9 > > > > > > > > > > > > OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did > some > > research > > > > today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal > when > > considering > > > > cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont > Inn. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked > > > > > > > > Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds > > (734) 384-1600 > > > > > > > > Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals > contest. > > > > Bob Kane > > > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion > > mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release > Date: 08/04/09 05:57:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joddino at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 5 11:26:01 2009 From: joddino at socal.rr.com (James Oddino) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 19:26:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter In-Reply-To: <891920.40674.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <891920.40674.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I considered building something but in my old age I don't like to chase after the parts I need to build one. Besides the eLogger does a lot more stuff so I ordered it with the display. I'll probably leave both units in the plane. Jim On Aug 5, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Bob Richards wrote: > Depends on what you mean by "light". I've used the eLogger from > Eagle Tree: > > http://www.eagletreesystems.com/MicroPower/micro.htm > > But, seeing as how this is pattern, this will probably put a lot of > planes over the weight limit. :-) The nice thing about the elogger > is the data logging capability. With the external display, you can > program it to display information about the flight as well (min > voltage, max amps, mah consumed, etc). > > OTOH, a simple op-amp circuit and a bar graph LED display might do > what you need. > > Bob R. > > > --- On Wed, 8/5/09, James Oddino wrote: > > From: James Oddino > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airborne voltmeter > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Wednesday, August 5, 2009, 1:28 PM > > > Has anyone run across a small, light voltmeter that could be left in > the plane wired across the input to the ESC? The idea is to make > sure your pack is fully charged when you plug it into the ESC. It > would need a range from 30 to 42 volts and needs a resolution of at > least one volt. I want to see a difference between 38 and 41 volts. > > Jim > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billpritch at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 12:09:35 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:09:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals, Atwood, K-Factor, and beyond... Message-ID: <469471.9183.qm@web65111.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> How 'bout a street address for that lovely Baymont Inn?? Just got a copy of the latest MAN from a buddy while flying this am and Mark Atwood has a great contribution for the ATX radio. No, I don't have one....(in spite of all the stickers on my plane.....) Seriously, nice Mark! I totally agree with all about Dave's contribution and the quality of writing. I was fortunate to get the emails and as well, felt as if I were there. Dave is a great flyer and a great guy. Congrats on the win! So are we doing foamies, slicks, other forms of entertainment this weekend? I really need to get away.... Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Wed Aug 5 12:26:22 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:26:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals, Atwood, K-Factor, and beyond... In-Reply-To: <469471.9183.qm@web65111.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <469471.9183.qm@web65111.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E8FB6@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Thanks! I haven't seen the issue yet. Of course! Bring both your foamy and the Slick. Worst case we have a night fly in the hotel. Also have to second/third/fourth the opinion about Dave Lockhart's article and trip. It was fun to "experience" while he was sending us the real time update and fun to read now. We need more people to take the kind of time that took to share their experience. It's not easy to constantly carry a camera and stop what you're doing to photograph every moment and then take the time every evening to record the day's activities in prose. Thanks for taking the time and effort! -M From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Pritchett Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 4:10 PM To: NSRCA List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals, Atwood, K-Factor, and beyond... How 'bout a street address for that lovely Baymont Inn?? Just got a copy of the latest MAN from a buddy while flying this am and Mark Atwood has a great contribution for the ATX radio. No, I don't have one....(in spite of all the stickers on my plane.....) Seriously, nice Mark! I totally agree with all about Dave's contribution and the quality of writing. I was fortunate to get the emails and as well, felt as if I were there. Dave is a great flyer and a great guy. Congrats on the win! So are we doing foamies, slicks, other forms of entertainment this weekend? I really need to get away.... Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/04/09 05:57:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Aug 5 12:37:53 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:37:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals, Atwood, K-Factor, and beyond... In-Reply-To: <469471.9183.qm@web65111.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <469471.9183.qm@web65111.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <801446.39958.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Baymont Inn & Suites Monroe 14774 Laplaisance Road Monroe, MI 48161 US Phone: 734-384-1600 Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Bill Pritchett To: NSRCA List Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:09:33 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals, Atwood, K-Factor, and beyond... How 'bout a street address for that lovely Baymont Inn?? Just got a copy of the latest MAN from a buddy while flying this am and Mark Atwood has a great contribution for the ATX radio. No, I don't have one....(in spite of all the stickers on my plane.....) Seriously, nice Mark! I totally agree with all about Dave's contribution and the quality of writing. I was fortunate to get the emails and as well, felt as if I were there. Dave is a great flyer and a great guy. Congrats on the win! So are we doing foamies, slicks, other forms of entertainment this weekend? I really need to get away.... Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Timjesky at charter.net Wed Aug 5 12:52:12 2009 From: Timjesky at charter.net (Tim Jesky) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:52:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 References: <458179.98724.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <208006.55602.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A799826.5050602@hotmail.com><6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B227EB@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: <001301ca160e$9ae6ca50$a0dfe718@tim3fba4063879> Hi Chris, Please contact me off list. timjesky at charter.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:46 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Thanks Andrew I'll have to check the weather forecast but Lotto and I may be coming. Chris Andrew Jesky wrote: Correct, you will want the one in Monroe. Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Sent: Wednesday, 05 August, 2009 10:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 Guys, is this the Baymont in Monroe, MI? There are 4 locations listed in the Toledo vicinity. Thanks Chris Anthony Abdullah wrote: I will book my room at the Baymont this evening! Thanks Anthony ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 8:29:38 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Hotel information for the Weak Signals Contest August 8-9 OK, Mr. Tim Jesky (hardest working man in pattern) did some research today and concluded the Baymont Inn is the best deal when considering cost and appearance, so we will recommend the Baymont Inn. Rate based on a minimum of 5 rooms booked Baymont Inn $65. + tax King or 2 double beds (734) 384-1600 Let them know you are there for the Weak Signals contest. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________NSRCA-discussion mailing listNSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.orghttp://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au Wed Aug 5 13:46:44 2009 From: Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au (Koenig, Tom) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:46:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 Message-ID: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> Hi Chaps, My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just may be an urban myth! I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending this particular story.....but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! Any one know of this 'myth'?? Thanks guys Tom Koenig INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN ActewAGL Telephone 02 6248 3428 Facsimile 02 6248 3482 GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 www.actewagl.com.au ________________________________ ************************************************************************ *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the consent of the sender. WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. Before opening or using attachments, please check for viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any affected attachments. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the organisation. ************************************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 5 14:41:48 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 22:41:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 In-Reply-To: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> References: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> Message-ID: <326109.59097.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Test pilot Tex Johnson rolled a 707 in an early demo flight.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE Google the event, there is lots of info about it. No idea on a 747, but I expect it is a myth. Richard ________________________________ From: "Koenig, Tom" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:46:35 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 Hi Chaps, ? My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just may be an urban myth! ? I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? ? I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending this particular story?..but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! ? Any one know of this ?myth??? ? Thanks guys ? Tom Koenig ? INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN ActewAGL Telephone 02 6248 3428 Facsimile 02 6248 3482 GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 www.actewagl.com.au ? ________________________________ ************************************************************************ *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the consent of the sender. WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. Before opening or using attachments, please check for viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any affected attachments. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the organisation. ************************************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgghome at comcast.net Wed Aug 5 15:24:22 2009 From: jgghome at comcast.net (John Gayer) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:24:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 In-Reply-To: <326109.59097.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> <326109.59097.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A7A148E.3040309@comcast.net> I've done rolls in the training simulators for most commercial airliners from the DC-9 to the A380, including the 787 and have never been able to do one without losing a couple thousand feet. Lots of roll couple in the rudder, too. John Richard Lewis wrote: > Test pilot Tex Johnson rolled a 707 in an early demo flight.. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE > > Google the event, there is lots of info about it. > > No idea on a 747, but I expect it is a myth. > > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "Koenig, Tom" > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:46:35 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 > > Hi Chaps, > > > > My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just > may be an urban myth! > > > > I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have > any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? > > > > I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of > us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending > this particular story?..but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro > fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! > > > > Any one know of this ?myth??? > > > > Thanks guys > > > > **/Tom Koenig/** > > > > INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN > > ActewAGL > > *Telephone* 02 6248 3428 > > *Facsimile* 02 6248 3482 > > GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 > > www.actewagl.com.au > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ************************************************************************ > *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may > be confidential. If received in error, please delete all > copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or > dissemination of this email or its attachments is > prohibited without the consent of the sender. > > WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep > outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty > is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. > Before opening or using attachments, please check for > viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any > affected attachments. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the > individual sender, except where the sender expressly, > and with authority, states them to be the views of the > organisation. > ************************************************************************ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ed_alt at hotmail.com Wed Aug 5 15:33:10 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 23:33:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 In-Reply-To: <4A7A148E.3040309@comcast.net> References: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> <326109.59097.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A7A148E.3040309@comcast.net> Message-ID: There's a video of a Boeing test pilot rolling the 707 during a demo flight. Never seen anything about a 747 doing the same, but why not? The 707 pilot kept about 1G loading at all times, so the airplane didn't mind a bit. Ed -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:24 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 I've done rolls in the training simulators for most commercial airliners from the DC-9 to the A380, including the 787 and have never been able to do one without losing a couple thousand feet. Lots of roll couple in the rudder, too. John Richard Lewis wrote: > Test pilot Tex Johnson rolled a 707 in an early demo flight.. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE > > Google the event, there is lots of info about it. > > No idea on a 747, but I expect it is a myth. > > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "Koenig, Tom" > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:46:35 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 > > Hi Chaps, > > > > My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just > may be an urban myth! > > > > I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have > any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? > > > > I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of > us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending > this particular story?..but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro > fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! > > > > Any one know of this ?myth??? > > > > Thanks guys > > > > **/Tom Koenig/** > > > > INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN > > ActewAGL > > *Telephone* 02 6248 3428 > > *Facsimile* 02 6248 3482 > > GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 > > www.actewagl.com.au > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ************************************************************************ > *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may > be confidential. If received in error, please delete all > copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or > dissemination of this email or its attachments is > prohibited without the consent of the sender. > > WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep > outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty > is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. > Before opening or using attachments, please check for > viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any > affected attachments. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the > individual sender, except where the sender expressly, > and with authority, states them to be the views of the > organisation. > ************************************************************************ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From rcmaster199 at aol.com Wed Aug 5 16:55:14 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:55:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBE447A5FD5CF8-EC4-28CC@webmail-dx04.sysops.aol.com> It was the Boeing test pilot, Tex Johnson, about 40 years ago. When I heard the story and saw the video (tape actually), Mr Johnson was supposedly asked by Boeing's Peep why he pulled the stunt in front of airline dignitaries as well as himself; he retorted "....I'm trying to airplanes for ya....". An apparently simple stunt to pull off in a ballistic arc (not pattern like, in other words) MattK -----Original Message----- From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Wed, Aug 5, 2009 7:33 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 There's a video of a Boeing test pilot rolling the 707 during a demo flight. Never seen anything about a 747 doing the same, but why not? The 707 pilot kept about 1G loading at all times, so the airplane didn't mind a bit. Ed -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:24 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 I've done rolls in the training simulators for most commercial airliners from the DC-9 to the A380, including the 787 and have never been able to do one without losing a couple thousand feet. Lots of roll couple in the rudder, too. John Richard Lewis wrote: > Test pilot Tex Johnson rolled a 707 in an early demo flight.. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE > > Google the event, there is lots of info about it. > > No idea on a 747, but I expect it is a myth. > > Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* "Koenig, Tom" <Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au> > *To:* General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:46:35 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 > > Hi Chaps, > > > > My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just > may be an urban myth! > > > > I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have > any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? > > > > I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of > us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending > this particular story?..but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro > fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! > > > > Any one know of this ?myth??? > > > > Thanks guys > > > > **/Tom Koenig/** > > > > INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN > >20ActewAGL > > *Telephone* 02 6248 3428 > > *Facsimile* 02 6248 3482 > > GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 > > www.actewagl.com.au > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ************************************************************************ > *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may > be confidential. If received in error, please delete all > copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or > dissemination of this email or its attachments is > prohibited without the consent of the sender. > > WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep > outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty > is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. > Before opening or using attachments, please check for > viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any > affected attachments. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the > individual sender, except where the sender expressly, > and with authority, states them to be the views of the > organisation. > ************************************************************************ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion=2 0mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaqfly at prodigy.net Wed Aug 5 16:59:43 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 00:59:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart In-Reply-To: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <920080.88258.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Don't some of those Kudos go to you Mike for remembering and wishing all of us a happy Father's Day, and that great picture you included in your column. ?Jim Quinn ----- Original Message ---- From: mike mueller To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2009 10:41:28 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart I just got mine yesterday. Yes it was delayed due to some changing of the designer. Chris told me it'll be back on schedule soon. I want to thank Dave Lockhart for the article he wrote about his trip to South Africa. I'm sure it took him a longtime to prepare. Dave had been sending a number of us daily email updates when he went earlier this spring. I felt like I was on the trip with him. Dave you should be an author. Kudo's to all involved with the K Factor this month. Mike ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From billglaze at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 5 17:31:01 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:31:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 References: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> Message-ID: <03F527D7061942CCA2BFE15BB67FE132@glazecstp32xp> Never heard of that, but I definitely know of one (747) that did a Split-S and went through the mach--the Captain put the gear out, and saved the plane by slowing it down. He lost the gear doors, and each gear door tookof about 6 feet from each end of the horizontal stabilizer. I saw the plane in SFO while it was being repaired. Hope they did a real good check of the main and sub- spars. Bill Glaze Captain, UAL (ret'd.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Koenig, Tom To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:46 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 Hi Chaps, My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just may be an urban myth! I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending this particular story...but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! Any one know of this 'myth'?? Thanks guys Tom Koenig INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN ActewAGL Telephone 02 6248 3428 Facsimile 02 6248 3482 GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 www.actewagl.com.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ************************************************************************ *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the consent of the sender. WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. Before opening or using attachments, please check for viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any affected attachments. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the organisation. ************************************************************************ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 5 17:34:25 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:34:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 References: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> <326109.59097.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A7A148E.3040309@comcast.net> Message-ID: It was a demonstration flight for the Big Brass up in Renton, WA, and the Boeing officials were so embarrassed that they fired him. Later, it developed that the military brass, (who were themselves pilots) got such a kick out of it, he was reinstated with a stern warning:''Don't ever do anything like that again!" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Alt" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 > There's a video of a Boeing test pilot rolling the 707 during a demo > flight. Never seen anything about a 747 doing the same, but why not? The > 707 pilot kept about 1G loading at all times, so the airplane didn't mind > a bit. > > Ed > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:24 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 > > I've done rolls in the training simulators for most commercial airliners > from the DC-9 to the A380, including the 787 and have never been able to > do one without losing a couple thousand feet. Lots of roll couple in the > rudder, too. > > John > > Richard Lewis wrote: >> Test pilot Tex Johnson rolled a 707 in an early demo flight.. >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE >> >> Google the event, there is lots of info about it. >> >> No idea on a 747, but I expect it is a myth. >> >> Richard >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* "Koenig, Tom" >> *To:* General pattern discussion >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:46:35 PM >> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 >> >> Hi Chaps, >> >> >> >> My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just >> may be an urban myth! >> >> >> >> I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have >> any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? >> >> >> >> I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of >> us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending >> this particular story?..but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro >> fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! >> >> >> >> Any one know of this ?myth??? >> >> >> >> Thanks guys >> >> >> >> **/Tom Koenig/** >> >> >> >> INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN >> >> ActewAGL >> >> *Telephone* 02 6248 3428 >> >> *Facsimile* 02 6248 3482 >> >> GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 >> >> www.actewagl.com.au >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ************************************************************************ >> *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may >> be confidential. If received in error, please delete all >> copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or >> dissemination of this email or its attachments is >> prohibited without the consent of the sender. >> >> WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep >> outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty >> is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. >> Before opening or using attachments, please check for >> viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any >> affected attachments. >> >> Any views expressed in this message are those of the >> individual sender, except where the sender expressly, >> and with authority, states them to be the views of the >> organisation. >> ************************************************************************ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From seefo at san.rr.com Wed Aug 5 17:59:13 2009 From: seefo at san.rr.com (Doug Cronkhite) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:59:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 In-Reply-To: References: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> <326109.59097.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com><4A7A148E.3040309@comcast.net> Message-ID: The pilot was Tex Johnston. I actually met him at the 1984 Reno Air Races. Straight from the man himself, he was never fired. Bill Allen called him into his office and asked if it was true that he had rolled the Dash-80. Tex replied that he had, to which Allen replied "Don't ever do it again..." Allen then asked what the hell he thought he was doing? Johnston replied "selling airplanes!" Sent from my iPhone On Aug 5, 2009, at 6:34 PM, "Bill Glaze" wrote: > It was a demonstration flight for the Big Brass up in Renton, WA, > and the Boeing officials were so embarrassed that they fired him. > Later, it developed that the military brass, (who were themselves > pilots) got such a kick out of it, he was reinstated with a stern > warning:''Don't ever do anything like that again!" > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Alt" > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:33 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 > > >> There's a video of a Boeing test pilot rolling the 707 during a >> demo flight. Never seen anything about a 747 doing the same, but >> why not? The 707 pilot kept about 1G loading at all times, so the >> airplane didn't mind a bit. >> >> Ed >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Gayer >> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 7:24 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 >> >> I've done rolls in the training simulators for most commercial >> airliners >> from the DC-9 to the A380, including the 787 and have never been >> able to >> do one without losing a couple thousand feet. Lots of roll couple >> in the >> rudder, too. >> >> John >> >> Richard Lewis wrote: >>> Test pilot Tex Johnson rolled a 707 in an early demo flight.. >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE >>> >>> Google the event, there is lots of info about it. >>> >>> No idea on a 747, but I expect it is a myth. >>> >>> Richard >>> >>> --- >>> --- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* "Koenig, Tom" >>> *To:* General pattern discussion >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2009 4:46:35 PM >>> *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 >>> >>> Hi Chaps, >>> >>> >>> >>> My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what >>> just >>> may be an urban myth! >>> >>> >>> >>> I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have >>> any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? >>> >>> >>> >>> I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a >>> group of >>> us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending >>> this particular story?..but it was so long ago that perhaps my n >>> itro >>> fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! >>> >>> >>> >>> Any one know of this ?myth??? >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks guys >>> >>> >>> >>> **/Tom Koenig/** >>> >>> >>> >>> INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN >>> >>> ActewAGL >>> >>> *Telephone* 02 6248 3428 >>> >>> *Facsimile* 02 6248 3482 >>> >>> GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 >>> >>> www.actewagl.com.au >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> --- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *** >>> *** >>> ****************************************************************** >>> *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may >>> be confidential. If received in error, please delete all >>> copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or >>> dissemination of this email or its attachments is >>> prohibited without the consent of the sender. >>> >>> WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep >>> outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty >>> is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. >>> Before opening or using attachments, please check for >>> viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any >>> affected attachments. >>> >>> Any views expressed in this message are those of the >>> individual sender, except where the sender expressly, >>> and with authority, states them to be the views of the >>> organisation. >>> *** >>> *** >>> ****************************************************************** >>> --- >>> --- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au Wed Aug 5 18:09:20 2009 From: Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au (Koenig, Tom) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:09:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 In-Reply-To: <03F527D7061942CCA2BFE15BB67FE132@glazecstp32xp> References: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394970@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> <03F527D7061942CCA2BFE15BB67FE132@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <724ADB95DA93CC4BA53B10F84AF85777C5394973@CBRMAIL10.actewagl.production.com.au> Thanks Bill-I actually was hoping you would shed some light on this. I always enjoy listening to your experiences. Looks like the 747 roll may never have happened after all-at least as far as we know! Thanks chaps. Tom Koenig From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, 6 August 2009 11:31 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 Never heard of that, but I definitely know of one (747) that did a Split-S and went through the mach--the Captain put the gear out, and saved the plane by slowing it down. He lost the gear doors, and each gear door tookof about 6 feet from each end of the horizontal stabilizer. I saw the plane in SFO while it was being repaired. Hope they did a real good check of the main and sub- spars. Bill Glaze Captain, UAL (ret'd.) ----- Original Message ----- From: Koenig, Tom To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 5:46 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic-747 Hi Chaps, My apologies for the subject, but we are in huge debate over what just may be an urban myth! I realise there are a few ex airline pilots amongst this list. Have any of you ever heard of a 747 doing an intentional full roll?? I was under the impression that a 747 200 engineer had told a group of us that this feat had indeed been accomplished. I am just defending this particular story.....but it was so long ago that perhaps my nitro fried brain is recalling this story incorrectly!! Any one know of this 'myth'?? Thanks guys Tom Koenig INSTRUMENT & CONTROL TECHNICIAN ActewAGL Telephone 02 6248 3428 Facsimile 02 6248 3482 GPO Box 366 Canberra ACT 2601 www.actewagl.com.au ________________________________ ************************************************************************ *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the consent of the sender. WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. Before opening or using attachments, please check for viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any affected attachments. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the organisation. ************************************************************************ ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ ************************************************************************ *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments is prohibited without the consent of the sender. WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty is given that this email or its attachments are virus free. Before opening or using attachments, please check for viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any affected attachments. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender expressly, and with authority, states them to be the views of the organisation. ************************************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 08:26:05 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:26:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Message-ID: Yesterday I was trying to get a few flights between thunder storms and experienced abnormal elevator trim change. I hadn't flown this airplane for about a month but it has been totally reliable and predictable. My first flight was cut short due to repeated fly-overs by a full size helicopter. I got an uninterrupted second flight with only a beep or two of up elevator trim, which isn't excessive in changing weather conditions. The third flight I had to add about three more beeps of up trim and I thought the air was really getting thin. The fourth flight needed about six more beeps of up trim but the airplane acted normal so I continued. After landing I noticed the rudder was offset about 1/4", no wonder the flight was a little screwy. This airplane has a tight, full pull-pull cable system that never changes mechanically. I had a centering offset of about ten beeps on both the elevator and rudder servos and was changing the idle trim more than normal. You electric guys can laugh now. The fuel tank stopped had loosened and everything in the fuselage was wet probably all the way to the tail post. The inside of the airplane is a mess and I will be flying the other airplane in Redmond OR this weekend. The receiver had a little oil on one corner of the case but appears to be dry inside and doesn't even smell like fuel. I suspect the centering change resulted from fuel getting into the servo pots. I'm reluctant to get into them that deep and will probably just scrap them. After three seasons they were due for replacement anyway. Jim Hiller From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 08:34:56 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:34:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim change after thought Message-ID: OOPS! In the future I will probably be using aluminum inside and outside disks on the fuel tank stoppers. Is there a source for such or do I need to make them myself? Jim Hiller From edvwhite at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 08:42:01 2009 From: edvwhite at yahoo.com (Ed White) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:42:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <853192.66348.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> What Tx are you using? I had a similar problem earlier this summer with my Futaba 9Z. Every flight required a few clicks of down trim, rudder and throttle seemed to be drifting slowly also. But otherwise the radio seemed to be working. I sent it in to Futaba where they replaced some gimbal parts and some ribbon cables, but I think the only thing they did that could have really solved this problem is replace the small Lithium battery that maintains the memory. It is rock solid now. If your transmitter has such a battery (9Z and I think the 14MZ also has a battery?), I would get that replaced. If it doesn't have a battery, I would definitely send it in for repair. I would think you would need a lot of exhaust on the servos for oil to get into the pots, but maybe after 3 seasons. Ed ________________________________ From: J N Hiller To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:26:40 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Yesterday I was trying to get a few flights between thunder storms and experienced abnormal elevator trim change. I hadn't flown this airplane for about a month but it has been totally reliable and predictable. My first flight was cut short due to repeated fly-overs by a full size helicopter. I got an uninterrupted second flight with only a beep or two of up elevator trim, which isn't excessive in changing weather conditions. The third flight I had to add about three more beeps of up trim and I thought the air was really getting thin. The fourth flight needed about six more beeps of up trim but the airplane acted normal so I continued. After landing I noticed the rudder was offset about 1/4", no wonder the flight was a little screwy. This airplane has a tight, full pull-pull cable system that never changes mechanically. I had a centering offset of about ten beeps on both the elevator and rudder servos and was changing the idle trim more than normal. You electric guys can laugh now. The fuel tank stopped had loosened and everything in the fuselage was wet probably all the way to the tail post. The inside of the airplane is a mess and I will be flying the other airplane in Redmond OR this weekend. The receiver had a little oil on one corner of the case but appears to be dry inside and doesn't even smell like fuel. I suspect the centering change resulted from fuel getting into the servo pots. I'm reluctant to get into them that deep and will probably just scrap them. After three seasons they were due for replacement anyway. Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Thu Aug 6 08:44:39 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:44:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim change after thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7B0874.2020303@cox.net> J N Hiller wrote: > OOPS! In the future I will probably be using aluminum inside and outside > disks on the fuel tank stoppers. > Is there a source for such or do I need to make them myself? > Jim Hiller > Sullivan makes a nice set up. I use it on several tanks (gas) never had a problem. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBWL6&P=SM Not sure if there is a Dubro equivalent or if they will work with a Dubro tank. From edvwhite at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 08:44:57 2009 From: edvwhite at yahoo.com (Ed White) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:44:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim change after thought In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <782656.12511.qm@web83506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Like this? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBWL6&P=ML ________________________________ From: J N Hiller To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:35:32 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim change after thought OOPS! In the future I will probably be using aluminum inside and outside disks on the fuel tank stoppers. Is there a source for such or do I need to make them myself? Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 09:04:47 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:04:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: <853192.66348.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: OH I never thought about it being a TX problem. I hope not, I'm using a 9C and it's the only TX I have suitable for pattern. I have with two identical servos in the same environment acting the same with no effect to the ailerons. I use the TX for several airplanes and will probably fly my backup today. If it's the TX it should offset the rudder and elevator as soon as the RX is turned on. I don't think it was leaking for three years but it was sever, I could have pulled the stopper out without further loosening of the screw. The threads don't hold very well in the plastic disks and as a designer I would NEVER do this. Thanks for the heads up on the TX. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed White Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:42 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change What Tx are you using? I had a similar problem earlier this summer with my Futaba 9Z. Every flight required a few clicks of down trim, rudder and throttle seemed to be drifting slowly also. But otherwise the radio seemed to be working. I sent it in to Futaba where they replaced some gimbal parts and some ribbon cables, but I think the only thing they did that could have really solved this problem is replace the small Lithium battery that maintains the memory. It is rock solid now. If your transmitter has such a battery (9Z and I think the 14MZ also has a battery?), I would get that replaced. If it doesn't have a battery, I would definitely send it in for repair. I would think you would need a lot of exhaust on the servos for oil to get into the pots, but maybe after 3 seasons. Ed _____ From: J N Hiller To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:26:40 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Yesterday I was trying to get a few flights between thunder storms and experienced abnormal elevator trim change. I hadn't flown this airplane for about a month but it has been totally reliable and predictable. My first flight was cut short due to repeated fly-overs by a full size helicopter. I got an uninterrupted second flight with only a beep or two of up elevator trim, which isn't excessive in changing weather conditions. The third flight I had to add about three more beeps of up trim and I thought the air was really getting thin. The fourth flight needed about six more beeps of up trim but the airplane acted normal so I continued. After landing I noticed the rudder was offset about 1/4", no wonder the flight was a little screwy. This airplane has a tight, full pull-pull cable system that never changes mechanically. I had a centering offset of about ten beeps on both the elevator and rudder servos and was changing the idle trim more than normal. You electric guys can laugh now. The fuel tank stopped had loosened and everything in the fuselage was wet probably all the way to the tail post. The inside of the airplane is a mess and I will be flying the other airplane in Redmond OR this weekend. The receiver had a little oil on one corner of the case but appears to be dry inside and doesn't even smell like fuel. I suspect the centering change resulted from fuel getting into the servo pots. I'm reluctant to get into them that deep and will probably just scrap them. After three seasons they were due for replacement anyway. Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 09:09:32 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:09:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Friday practice for the Weak Signals Contest this weekend Message-ID: <298652.97032.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tim Jesky will at the Weak Signals field at 11AM tomorrow (Friday) for those of you who may be showing up early to practice. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From wemodels at cox.net Thu Aug 6 09:12:37 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:12:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7B0F03.8000705@cox.net> J N Hiller wrote: > > OH I never thought about it being a TX problem. > In your case it sounds like the leaking fuel is the culprit. Having said that, one of the key diagnostics for bad pots in Futaba transmitters is a trim or centering change when changing conditions or switching dual rates. This assumes that you are not programmed to allow different trims in different conditions. It really is a good idea to send your radio in once a year, or no more than every couple of years. I see so many posts of problems that start with "My radio has performed flawlessly for 8 years now..." Then you find out that the thing has never once been serviced. Not servicing the radio is like driving without ever changing your oil. Neither is a good idea. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 09:13:10 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:13:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <692689.3394.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Tetra tanks. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: J N Hiller To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 12:26:40 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Yesterday I was trying to get a few flights between thunder storms and experienced abnormal elevator trim change. I hadn't flown this airplane for about a month but it has been totally reliable and predictable. My first flight was cut short due to repeated fly-overs by a full size helicopter. I got an uninterrupted second flight with only a beep or two of up elevator trim, which isn't excessive in changing weather conditions. The third flight I had to add about three more beeps of up trim and I thought the air was really getting thin. The fourth flight needed about six more beeps of up trim but the airplane acted normal so I continued. After landing I noticed the rudder was offset about 1/4", no wonder the flight was a little screwy. This airplane has a tight, full pull-pull cable system that never changes mechanically. I had a centering offset of about ten beeps on both the elevator and rudder servos and was changing the idle trim more than normal. You electric guys can laugh now. The fuel tank stopped had loosened and everything in the fuselage was wet probably all the way to the tail post. The inside of the airplane is a mess and I will be flying the other airplane in Redmond OR this weekend. The receiver had a little oil on one corner of the case but appears to be dry inside and doesn't even smell like fuel. I suspect the centering change resulted from fuel getting into the servo pots. I'm reluctant to get into them that deep and will probably just scrap them. After three seasons they were due for replacement anyway. Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 09:14:04 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:14:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim change after thought In-Reply-To: <782656.12511.qm@web83506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks Ed & Bill for point me to the aluminum stopper setup. I thought I had seen it somewhere. Looks bullet proof. I'll swing by the hobby shop on the way to the field. If they don't have it they will get it by next week, Heck it will take that long to cleanup the fuselage. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed White Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 9:45 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim change after thought Like this? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXBWL6&P=ML _____ From: J N Hiller To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 11:35:32 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim change after thought OOPS! In the future I will probably be using aluminum inside and outside disks on the fuel tank stoppers. Is there a source for such or do I need to make them myself? Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 09:24:08 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:24:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: <4A7B0F03.8000705@cox.net> Message-ID: The TX and all receivers used with it were serviced 1-2008. I will be running it out from here pending a total system replacement / upgrade in the coming years. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:13 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change J N Hiller wrote: OH I never thought about it being a TX problem. In your case it sounds like the leaking fuel is the culprit. Having said that, one of the key diagnostics for bad pots in Futaba transmitters is a trim or centering change when changing conditions or switching dual rates. This assumes that you are not programmed to allow different trims in different conditions. It really is a good idea to send your radio in once a year, or no more than every couple of years. I see so many posts of problems that start with "My radio has performed flawlessly for 8 years now..." Then you find out that the thing has never once been serviced. Not servicing the radio is like driving without ever changing your oil. Neither is a good idea. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 09:33:15 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:33:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: <692689.3394.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I've used their bladder tanks in non-pumped 4-cycle applications. Good option. I didn't even think about it. Checked my tank box and found a new 300cc tank, nuts I need at least a 460. I could call Central and it would be here when I get back. Thanks Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:13 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Tetra tanks. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: J N Hiller To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 12:26:40 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Yesterday I was trying to get a few flights between thunder storms and experienced abnormal elevator trim change. I hadn't flown this airplane for about a month but it has been totally reliable and predictable. My first flight was cut short due to repeated fly-overs by a full size helicopter. I got an uninterrupted second flight with only a beep or two of up elevator trim, which isn't excessive in changing weather conditions. The third flight I had to add about three more beeps of up trim and I thought the air was really getting thin. The fourth flight needed about six more beeps of up trim but the airplane acted normal so I continued. After landing I noticed the rudder was offset about 1/4", no wonder the flight was a little screwy. This airplane has a tight, full pull-pull cable system that never changes mechanically. I had a centering offset of about ten beeps on both the elevator and rudder servos and was changing the idle trim more than normal. You electric guys can laugh now. The fuel tank stopped had loosened and everything in the fuselage was wet probably all the way to the tail post. The inside of the airplane is a mess and I will be flying the other airplane in Redmond OR this weekend. The receiver had a little oil on one corner of the case but appears to be dry inside and doesn't even smell like fuel. I suspect the centering change resulted from fuel getting into the servo pots. I'm reluctant to get into them that deep and will probably just scrap them. After three seasons they were due for replacement anyway. Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From scott at rcfoamy.com Thu Aug 6 09:56:01 2009 From: scott at rcfoamy.com (scott anderson) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:56:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Contest Message-ID: <0D3307F724AA420285C4F7E35B4B22BC@ScottPC> House Mountain Pattern Classic August 29 & 30, 2009, Knoxville, TN Okay Guys So for those who are planning to attend the House Mountain AMA contest August 29-30 2009 We have a room rate of $ 47.69 at the Motel 6 865-633-6646 tell them it is for the "House Mountain" contest to get that rate. Motel 6 Knoxville, tn #4252 1550 cracker barrel ln I-40 at strawberry plains, exit #398 Knoxville, TN, 37914 Phone: (865) 633-6646 Please pre-register with us at sales at rcfoamy.com with name,channel , and class Thank You, Scott & Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Aug 6 10:03:42 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:03:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: <4A7B0F03.8000705@cox.net> References: <4A7B0F03.8000705@cox.net> Message-ID: Trim change with dual rates in not necessarily a bad pot. It could be a good pot that has slipped. This is very common. Futaba even went to metal straps to help stop this. Pots that are bad usually have dirty control, or a tight shaft. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 1:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change J N Hiller wrote: OH I never thought about it being a TX problem. In your case it sounds like the leaking fuel is the culprit. Having said that, one of the key diagnostics for bad pots in Futaba transmitters is a trim or centering change when changing conditions or switching dual rates. This assumes that you are not programmed to allow different trims in different conditions. It really is a good idea to send your radio in once a year, or no more than every couple of years. I see so many posts of problems that start with "My radio has performed flawlessly for 8 years now..." Then you find out that the thing has never once been serviced. Not servicing the radio is like driving without ever changing your oil. Neither is a good idea. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Thu Aug 6 10:13:03 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 18:13:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: References: <4A7B0F03.8000705@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A7B1D2D.7030704@cox.net> Tony wrote: > > Trim change with dual rates in not necessarily a bad pot. It could be > a good pot that has slipped. This is very common. Futaba even went > to metal straps to help stop this. Pots that are bad usually have > dirty control, or a tight shaft. > > > I guess I should rephrase my comment to be more accurate. Trim changes are an indication of a problem with the pots. They may be bad or have slipped. Either way it is a sign that a trip to the transmitter doctor is in order. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 11:28:42 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:28:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: <4A7B1D2D.7030704@cox.net> Message-ID: I should have mentioned one other thing I did upon returning home yesterday. I plugged in another receiver and got the same centering offset. I also noted the servos seamed to hunt a little (intermittently) between beeping the trims, classic bad servo pot symptoms. I remember when we had to clean them several times a season. I don't know if you can clean them anymore, in any case it isn't worth doing on a $35 servo. By the time the electronics have a problem the gears are loose also. I'm down to my last two 3152's and I've held off restocking trying to decide if I want to change to a JR 2.4 system or stay with Futaba (I prefer to keep the components matched). I can probably get through this season and next year I will be flying an all new design with new stuff in it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:13 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Tony wrote: Trim change with dual rates in not necessarily a bad pot. It could be a good pot that has slipped. This is very common. Futaba even went to metal straps to help stop this. Pots that are bad usually have dirty control, or a tight shaft. I guess I should rephrase my comment to be more accurate. Trim changes are an indication of a problem with the pots. They may be bad or have slipped. Either way it is a sign that a trip to the transmitter doctor is in order. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schale at optonline.net Thu Aug 6 11:42:46 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:42:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A7B322E.4050306@optonline.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 6 12:24:06 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:24:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: <4A7B322E.4050306@optonline.net> Message-ID: I came back in to check the Doppler radar before heading to the field. I turned on the other airplane to see if the neutral points had shifted. The elevator centering didn't change at all, didn't even twitch. They are dead on center just the way they were two weeks ago when I was working on flight trimming. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Stuart Chale Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 12:43 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Did you try plugging in a new servo to the receiver in the airplane. If it also has centering issues then the problem should be with the transmitter. Stuart J N Hiller wrote: I should have mentioned one other thing I did upon returning home yesterday. I plugged in another receiver and got the same centering offset. I also noted the servos seamed to hunt a little (intermittently) between beeping the trims, classic bad servo pot symptoms. I remember when we had to clean them several times a season. I don't know if you can clean them anymore, in any case it isn't worth doing on a $35 servo. By the time the electronics have a problem the gears are loose also. I'm down to my last two 3152's and I've held off restocking trying to decide if I want to change to a JR 2.4 system or stay with Futaba (I prefer to keep the components matched). I can probably get through this season and next year I will be flying an all new design with new stuff in it. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:13 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Tony wrote: Trim change with dual rates in not necessarily a bad pot. It could be a good pot that has slipped. This is very common. Futaba even went to metal straps to help stop this. Pots that are bad usually have dirty control, or a tight shaft. I guess I should rephrase my comment to be more accurate. Trim changes are an indication of a problem with the pots. They may be bad or have slipped. Either way it is a sign that a trip to the transmitter doctor is in order. _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Thu Aug 6 12:32:25 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 20:32:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <808107.78870.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I have seen a transmitter problem cause the neutral shift, but this was an old analog encoder in an Ace Silver Seven. :-)? It caused the neutral of EVERY channel to shift. ? In your case I seriously doubt the transmitter is the problem. Two different channels, on different sticks?-- not likely. I would suspect the servos. ? Bob R. ? --- On Thu, 8/6/09, J N Hiller wrote: OH I never thought about it being a TX problem. I hope not, I'm using a 9C and it's the only TX I have suitable for pattern. I have with two identical servos in the same environment acting the same with no effect to the ailerons. I use the TX for several airplanes and will probably fly my backup today. If it's the TX it should offset the rudder and elevator as soon as the RX is turned on. I don't think it was leaking for three years but it was sever, I could have pulled the stopper out without further loosening of the screw. The threads don't hold very well in the plastic disks and as a designer I would NEVER do this. Thanks for the heads up on the TX. Jim ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 13:32:37 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:32:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals contest this weekend Message-ID: <346399.8401.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm sure anyone considering coming to our contest this weekend has checked the weather forecast and sees there is a chance of scattered showers on Saturday. The Weak Signals field features a very nice new, large, weather-tight clubhouse with lots of picnic tables and indoor plumbing so nobody will have to sit in their car if we need to wait for a passing shower. The field is paved so we can resume flying very quickly. Go to www.toledoshow.com and click on the members area menu link on the lower left side. The picture on the top of the page shows a nice view of the flight area and clubhouse. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From warrior523 at mchsi.com Thu Aug 6 14:31:53 2009 From: warrior523 at mchsi.com (Dan) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 22:31:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Springfield RC Club contest, Springfield, MO Message-ID: <000c01ca16e5$ac324d20$6500a8c0@warrior> The contest in Springfield scheduled for September 12/13, 2009 has been cancelled. We have new neighbors to our immediate south and they appear to be armed and dangerous and fairly psychotic. Until some issues that this has raised are resolved, we will be unable to hold any events at our field. Please help pass this information along to anyone that you know, that might have been planning on attending. Thanks Dan Curtis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 6 15:43:21 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 23:43:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Springfield RC Club contest, Springfield, MO In-Reply-To: <000c01ca16e5$ac324d20$6500a8c0@warrior> References: <000c01ca16e5$ac324d20$6500a8c0@warrior> Message-ID: <401303.36554.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good luck, hope your club can get them resolved. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Dan To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2009 6:31:41 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Springfield RC Club contest, Springfield, MO The contest in Springfield scheduled for September 12/13, 2009 has been cancelled. We have new neighbors to our immediate south and they appear to be armed and dangerous and fairly psychotic. Until some issues that this has raised are resolved, we will be unable to hold any events at our field. Please help pass this information along to anyone that you know, that might have been planning on attending. Thanks Dan Curtis -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Thu Aug 6 16:58:31 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 00:58:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] TRue RC packs for Sale Message-ID: I have 2 brand new True RC 5S 5000ma 10C/15C pakcs for sale. Asking $175 for both shipped CONUS. Contact me off list if interested. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_express:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DaveL322 at comcast.net Thu Aug 6 19:50:38 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:50:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart In-Reply-To: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike (and others that commented), Thanks and glad to hear you liked the article and prior email updates. And thanks to Chris Fitzsimmons for squeezing the whole article into one issue, and producing another great issue. The SA trip was truly beyond words, so consider my article only a small window into the experience. My only regret is that I'd not found/made/committed time/money/resources sooner. Very much worth doing and highly recommended. Regards, Dave -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:41 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart I just got mine yesterday. Yes it was delayed due to some changing of the designer. Chris told me it'll be back on schedule soon. I want to thank Dave Lockhart for the article he wrote about his trip to South Africa. I'm sure it took him a longtime to prepare. Dave had been sending a number of us daily email updates when he went earlier this spring. I felt like I was on the trip with him. Dave you should be an author. Kudo's to all involved with the K Factor this month. Mike _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlkonn at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 02:36:19 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:36:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I sent this out earlier within the district. Thought I'd post it here now. I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since the 2007 season. It comes with: Hyde mount with integrated nose ring YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. TruTurn Spinner Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch Bolly F3A Large gear PGB wing tube JR 9411SA's on the ailerons Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators Airtronics 94758Z on rudder A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to uncover the plane and get it down to look) Todd Schmidt wheel pants *NO* receiver! I basically I took the current prices of the above and divided it in half and came up with the asking price of $1350. I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel tank, etc. You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last one. The plane has never been damaged...not even a broken prop. I will throw in what few spares I have including a couple YS/OS typeF plugs. I will include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including two satellites for $500. Any questions please don't hesitate! Thanks! JLK (PS...NO! I'm not quiting. Just making room for "E" plane #2!!!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 02:46:02 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:46:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I guess that new wide body electric stuff has you hooked now, eh John? J Ed From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 AM To: Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale I sent this out earlier within the district. Thought I'd post it here now. I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since the 2007 season. It comes with: Hyde mount with integrated nose ring YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. TruTurn Spinner Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch Bolly F3A Large gear PGB wing tube JR 9411SA's on the ailerons Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators Airtronics 94758Z on rudder A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to uncover the plane and get it down to look) Todd Schmidt wheel pants *NO* receiver! I basically I took the current prices of the above and divided it in half and came up with the asking price of $1350. I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel tank, etc. You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last one. The plane has never been damaged...not even a broken prop. I will throw in what few spares I have including a couple YS/OS typeF plugs. I will include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including two satellites for $500. Any questions please don't hesitate! Thanks! JLK (PS...NO! I'm not quiting. Just making room for "E" plane #2!!!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 02:47:46 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:47:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oh man Ed... I can't begin to tell ya... :-) JLK From: ed_alt at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale I guess that new wide body electric stuff has you hooked now, eh John? J Ed From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 AM To: Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale I sent this out earlier within the district. Thought I'd post it here now. I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since the 2007 season. It comes with: Hyde mount with integrated nose ring YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. TruTurn Spinner Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch Bolly F3A Large gear PGB wing tube JR 9411SA's on the ailerons Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators Airtronics 94758Z on rudder A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to uncover the plane and get it down to look) Todd Schmidt wheel pants *NO* receiver! I basically I took the current prices of the above and divided it in half and came up with the asking price of $1350. I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel tank, etc. You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last one. The plane has never been damaged...not even a broken prop. I will throw in what few spares I have including a couple YS/OS typeF plugs. I will include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including two satellites for $500. Any questions please don't hesitate! Thanks! JLK (PS...NO! I'm not quiting. Just making room for "E" plane #2!!!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgalligan at att.net Fri Aug 7 04:42:21 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:42:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change In-Reply-To: <4A7B1D2D.7030704@cox.net> References: <4A7B0F03.8000705@cox.net> <4A7B1D2D.7030704@cox.net> Message-ID: I have experienced this when replacing a gimbal. Like Tony said if the pot is not centered properly there will be a trim change when switching rates. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim Change Tony wrote: Trim change with dual rates in not necessarily a bad pot. It could be a good pot that has slipped. This is very common. Futaba even went to metal straps to help stop this. Pots that are bad usually have dirty control, or a tight shaft. I guess I should rephrase my comment to be more accurate. Trim changes are an indication of a problem with the pots. They may be bad or have slipped. Either way it is a sign that a trip to the transmitter doctor is in order. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 04:42:33 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:42:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <930977.61167.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> John love's the Phatboy!!!!! You should see him fly it and you'd understand why. Mike --- On Fri, 8/7/09, John Konneker wrote: > From: John Konneker > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale > To: "Discussion List" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:47 AM > > > > #yiv1925488590 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv1925488590 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > Oh man Ed... > > I can't begin to tell ya... > > :-) > > JLK > ? > > > From: ed_alt at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > > > > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal > {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle18 > {font-family:'Calibri', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass EC_MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} > _filtered #yiv1925488590 {} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 > {} > > > > I guess that new wide body electric stuff has > you hooked now, eh John?? J > ? > Ed > ? > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of John Konneker > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 AM > To: Discussion List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > ? > > I sent this out earlier within the > district.??Thought I'd post it here > now.? > > I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since > the 2007 season. > It comes with: > ? > Hyde mount with integrated nose ring > YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. > TruTurn Spinner > Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch > Bolly F3A Large gear > PGB wing tube > JR 9411SA's on the ailerons > Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators > Airtronics 94758Z on rudder > A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to > uncover the plane and get it down to look) > Todd Schmidt wheel pants > *NO* receiver! > I basically I took the current prices of the above and > divided it in half and came up with the > asking price of $1350. > I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel > tank, etc. > You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last > one. > The plane has never been damaged...not even?a broken > prop. > I will throw in what few spares I have including a > couple?YS/OS typeF plugs.? > ? > I will?include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including > two satellites for $500. > ? > Any questions please don't hesitate! > Thanks! > JLK > (PS...NO!? I'm not quiting.? Just making room > for "E" plane #2!!!) > ? > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Aug 7 04:57:27 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 12:57:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: <930977.61167.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <67613.52322.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think as you get older, "fat" gets more attractive. At least that's what?my married friends say. LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:42 AM John love's the Phatboy!!!!! You should see him fly it and you'd understand why. Mike --- On Fri, 8/7/09, John Konneker wrote: > From: John Konneker > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale > To: "Discussion List" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:47 AM > > > > #yiv1925488590 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv1925488590 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > >? > Oh man Ed... > > I can't begin to tell ya... > > :-) > > JLK > ? > > > From: ed_alt at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > > > > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal > {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle18 > {font-family:'Calibri', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass EC_MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} >? _filtered #yiv1925488590 {} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 > {} > > > > I guess that new wide body electric stuff has > you hooked now, eh John?? J > ? > Ed > ? > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of John Konneker > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 AM > To: Discussion List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > ? > > I sent this out earlier within the > district.??Thought I'd post it here > now.? > > I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since > the 2007 season. > It comes with: > ? > Hyde mount with integrated nose ring > YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. > TruTurn Spinner > Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch > Bolly F3A Large gear > PGB wing tube > JR 9411SA's on the ailerons > Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators > Airtronics 94758Z on rudder > A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to > uncover the plane and get it down to look) > Todd Schmidt wheel pants > *NO* receiver! > I basically I took the current prices of the above and > divided it in half and came up with the > asking price of $1350. > I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel > tank, etc. > You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last > one. > The plane has never been damaged...not even?a broken > prop. > I will throw in what few spares I have including a > couple?YS/OS typeF plugs.? > ? > I will?include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including > two satellites for $500. > ? > Any questions please don't hesitate! > Thanks! > JLK > (PS...NO!? I'm not quiting.? Just making room > for "E" plane #2!!!) > ? > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 7 05:03:13 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:03:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB81D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I've said for years that as we get older what we think of as "sexy" changes. See a woman taking out the trash or mowing the lawn? That's hot ... -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 07 08:57:23 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale I think as you get older, "fat" gets more attractive. At least that's what my married friends say. LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:42 AM John love's the Phatboy!!!!! You should see him fly it and you'd understand why. Mike --- On Fri, 8/7/09, John Konneker > wrote: > From: John Konneker > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale > To: "Discussion List" > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:47 AM > > > > #yiv1925488590 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv1925488590 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > Oh man Ed... > > I can't begin to tell ya... > > :-) > > JLK > > > > From: ed_alt at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > > > > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal > {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle18 > {font-family:'Calibri', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass EC_MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} > _filtered #yiv1925488590 {} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 > {} > > > > I guess that new wide body electric stuff has > you hooked now, eh John? J > > Ed > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On > Behalf Of John Konneker > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 AM > To: Discussion List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > > > I sent this out earlier within the > district. Thought I'd post it here > now. > > I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since > the 2007 season. > It comes with: > > Hyde mount with integrated nose ring > YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. > TruTurn Spinner > Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch > Bolly F3A Large gear > PGB wing tube > JR 9411SA's on the ailerons > Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators > Airtronics 94758Z on rudder > A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to > uncover the plane and get it down to look) > Todd Schmidt wheel pants > *NO* receiver! > I basically I took the current prices of the above and > divided it in half and came up with the > asking price of $1350. > I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel > tank, etc. > You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last > one. > The plane has never been damaged...not even a broken > prop. > I will throw in what few spares I have including a > couple YS/OS typeF plugs. > > I will include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including > two satellites for $500. > > Any questions please don't hesitate! > Thanks! > JLK > (PS...NO! I'm not quiting. Just making room > for "E" plane #2!!!) > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 7 05:05:10 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:05:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: <930977.61167.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <930977.61167.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <684855265-1249650306-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1591311986-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Does anyone know when the online k-factor gets updated? I am out of town on a family vacation at a wonderful isolated island off NC (but starving for something to read on the beach......I know, woe is me) and I wanted to read the story by Dave and other pattern news. Here for a couple more days, so I'll keep checking the website but thought someone might know the normal lag time. Thanks. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: mike mueller Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:42:26 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale John love's the Phatboy!!!!! You should see him fly it and you'd understand why. Mike --- On Fri, 8/7/09, John Konneker wrote: > From: John Konneker > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale > To: "Discussion List" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:47 AM > > > > #yiv1925488590 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv1925488590 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > Oh man Ed... > > I can't begin to tell ya... > > :-) > > JLK > ? > > > From: ed_alt at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > > > > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal > {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle18 > {font-family:'Calibri', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass EC_MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} >_filtered #yiv1925488590 {} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 > {} > > > > I guess that new wide body electric stuff has > you hooked now, eh John?? J > ? > Ed > ? > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of John Konneker > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 AM > To: Discussion List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > ? > > I sent this out earlier within the > district.??Thought I'd post it here > now.? > > I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since > the 2007 season. > It comes with: > ? > Hyde mount with integrated nose ring > YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. > TruTurn Spinner > Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch > Bolly F3A Large gear > PGB wing tube > JR 9411SA's on the ailerons > Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators > Airtronics 94758Z on rudder > A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to > uncover the plane and get it down to look) > Todd Schmidt wheel pants > *NO* receiver! > I basically I took the current prices of the above and > divided it in half and came up with the > asking price of $1350. > I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel > tank, etc. > You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last > one. > The plane has never been damaged...not even?a broken > prop. > I will throw in what few spares I have including a > couple?YS/OS typeF plugs.? > ? > I will?include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including > two satellites for $500. > ? > Any questions please don't hesitate! > Thanks! > JLK > (PS...NO!? I'm not quiting.? Just making room > for "E" plane #2!!!) > ? > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >_______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 05:23:22 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:23:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: <684855265-1249650306-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1591311986-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <930977.61167.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <684855265-1249650306-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1591311986-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <005501ca1762$31aff750$950fe5f0$@com> The issue we are having at the moment is that we can't download the KF due to some technical difficulty on our old web site. Hopefully this gets resolved soon. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mklein25 at roadrunner.com Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:05 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale Does anyone know when the online k-factor gets updated? I am out of town on a family vacation at a wonderful isolated island off NC (but starving for something to read on the beach......I know, woe is me) and I wanted to read the story by Dave and other pattern news. Here for a couple more days, so I'll keep checking the website but thought someone might know the normal lag time. Thanks. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: mike mueller Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:42:26 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale John love's the Phatboy!!!!! You should see him fly it and you'd understand why. Mike --- On Fri, 8/7/09, John Konneker wrote: > From: John Konneker > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale > To: "Discussion List" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:47 AM > > > > #yiv1925488590 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv1925488590 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > Oh man Ed... > > I can't begin to tell ya... > > :-) > > JLK > ? > > > From: ed_alt at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:57 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > > > > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass li.EC_MsoNormal, > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_MsoNormal > {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:link, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlink > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass a:visited, #yiv1925488590 > .ExternalClass span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > New Roman', 'serif';} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass span.EC_EmailStyle18 > {font-family:'Calibri', 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass EC_MsoChpDefault > {font-size:10.0pt;} >_filtered #yiv1925488590 {} > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass div.EC_Section1 > {} > > > > I guess that new wide body electric stuff has > you hooked now, eh John?? J > ? > Ed > ? > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of John Konneker > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 AM > To: Discussion List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > ? > > I sent this out earlier within the > district.??Thought I'd post it here > now.? > > I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since > the 2007 season. > It comes with: > ? > Hyde mount with integrated nose ring > YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. > TruTurn Spinner > Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch > Bolly F3A Large gear > PGB wing tube > JR 9411SA's on the ailerons > Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators > Airtronics 94758Z on rudder > A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to > uncover the plane and get it down to look) > Todd Schmidt wheel pants > *NO* receiver! > I basically I took the current prices of the above and > divided it in half and came up with the > asking price of $1350. > I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel > tank, etc. > You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last > one. > The plane has never been damaged...not even?a broken > prop. > I will throw in what few spares I have including a > couple?YS/OS typeF plugs.? > ? > I will?include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including > two satellites for $500. > ? > Any questions please don't hesitate! > Thanks! > JLK > (PS...NO!? I'm not quiting.? Just making room > for "E" plane #2!!!) > ? > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >_______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 05:34:21 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:34:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB81D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <470193.42914.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Wow Mark you've got some pretty deep thoughts. I like the Paris Hilton "That's hot" thing too. I'd think a women with a great job and retirement benefits would be pretty hot too. I guess that our definition of what's "Hot" changes as our needs do. Remember the old Seinfeld's about who's got hand? Life is all about leverage and theirs needs to change with age. Mike --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale > To: "'jpavlick at idseng.com'" , "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:57 AM > I've said for years that as we get > older what we think of as? "sexy" changes. > > See a woman taking out the trash or mowing the lawn?? > That's hot ... > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 07 08:57:23 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for > sale > > I think as you get older, "fat" gets more attractive. At > least that's what my married friends say. LOL > > John Pavlick > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mike mueller > wrote: > > > > ??? From: mike mueller > ??? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My > faithful Focus II for sale > ??? To: "General pattern discussion" > ??? Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 8:42 AM > ??? > ??? > ??? John love's the Phatboy!!!!! > ??? You should see him fly it and you'd > understand why. Mike > ??? > ??? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, John Konneker > > wrote: > ??? > ??? > From: John Konneker > > > ??? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My > faithful Focus II for sale > ??? > To: "Discussion List" > > > ??? > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 5:47 > AM > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .hmmessage P > ??? > { > ??? > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > ??? > #yiv1925488590 { > ??? > > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > ??? > > ??? > > ??? >? > ??? > Oh man Ed... > ??? > > ??? > I can't begin to tell ya... > ??? > > ??? > :-) > ??? > > ??? > JLK > ??? >? > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > From: ed_alt at hotmail.com > > > ??? > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > ??? > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:45:57 > -0400 > ??? > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] My > faithful Focus II for > ??? > sale > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > p.EC_MsoNormal, > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > li.EC_MsoNormal, > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > div.EC_MsoNormal > ??? > > {margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > ??? > New Roman', 'serif';} > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > a:link, #yiv1925488590 > ??? > .ExternalClass > span.EC_MsoHyperlink > ??? > > {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > a:visited, #yiv1925488590 > ??? > .ExternalClass > span.EC_MsoHyperlinkFollowed > ??? > > {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass p > ??? > > {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times > ??? > New Roman', 'serif';} > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > span.EC_EmailStyle18 > ??? > {font-family:'Calibri', > 'sans-serif';color:#1F497D;} > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > EC_MsoChpDefault > ??? > {font-size:10.0pt;} > ??? >? _filtered #yiv1925488590 {} > ??? > #yiv1925488590 .ExternalClass > div.EC_Section1 > ??? > {} > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > I guess that new wide body electric > stuff has > ??? > you hooked now, eh John?? J > ??? >? > ??? > Ed > ??? >? > ??? > > ??? > > ??? > From: > ??? > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > ??? > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > ] On > ??? > Behalf Of John Konneker > ??? > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 6:36 > AM > ??? > To: Discussion List > ??? > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My > faithful Focus II for > ??? > sale > ??? >? > ??? > > ??? > I sent this out earlier within the > ??? > district.? Thought I'd post it > here > ??? > now. > ??? > > ??? > I've decided to sell the Focus II I > have flown since > ??? > the 2007 season. > ??? > It comes with: > ??? >? > ??? > Hyde mount with integrated nose > ring > ??? > YS .160DZ just back from Richard at > YS and not run since. > ??? > TruTurn Spinner > ??? > Jaccio regulator and failsafe > switch > ??? > Bolly F3A Large gear > ??? > PGB wing tube > ??? > JR 9411SA's on the ailerons > ??? > Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators > ??? > Airtronics 94758Z on rudder > ??? > A JR mini digital something on > throttle (too lazy to > ??? > uncover the plane and get it down > to look) > ??? > Todd Schmidt wheel pants > ??? > *NO* receiver! > ??? > I basically I took the current > prices of the above and > ??? > divided it in half and came up with > the > ??? > asking price of $1350. > ??? > I have not calculated in any of the > assorted hardware, fuel > ??? > tank, etc. > ??? > You will need to buy a new header > since I broke the last > ??? > one. > ??? > The plane has never been > damaged...not even a broken > ??? > prop. > ??? > I will throw in what few spares I > have including a > ??? > couple YS/OS typeF plugs.? > ??? >? > ??? > I will include my X9303 with 9ch > receiver including > ??? > two satellites for $500. > ??? >? > ??? > Any questions please don't > hesitate! > ??? > Thanks! > ??? > JLK > ??? > (PS...NO!? I'm not > quiting.? Just making room > ??? > for "E" plane #2!!!) > ??? >??? > ??? > > ??? > -----Inline Attachment > Follows----- > ??? > > ??? > > _______________________________________________ > ??? > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > ??? > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > ??? > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ??? > ??? > ??? ? ? ? > ??? > _______________________________________________ > ??? NSRCA-discussion mailing list > ??? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > ??? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ??? > > ??? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 7 05:49:39 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:49:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart References: <381373.63845.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65529F1362E64DA186C3EDBA5AD2D40B@glazecstp32xp> Dave: I went to South Africa many years ago, and had a great time. Kruger game preserve alone was worth the trip; the animals in the wild appeared to be actually shined and polished, they were so much different from what we see in zoos. And, you didn't mention seeing any Impala. We saw them by the thousands; our guide mentioned that they were named after that model Chevrolet. (South African humor!) Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 11:47 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart > Mike (and others that commented), > > Thanks and glad to hear you liked the article and prior email updates. > And > thanks to Chris Fitzsimmons for squeezing the whole article into one > issue, > and producing another great issue. > > The SA trip was truly beyond words, so consider my article only a small > window into the experience. My only regret is that I'd not > found/made/committed time/money/resources sooner. Very much worth doing > and > highly recommended. > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike > mueller > Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 10:41 AM > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] July K Factor and thanks to Dave Lockhart > > I just got mine yesterday. Yes it was delayed due to some changing of the > designer. Chris told me it'll be back on schedule soon. > I want to thank Dave Lockhart for the article he wrote about his trip to > South Africa. I'm sure it took him a longtime to prepare. Dave had been > sending a number of us daily email updates when he went earlier this > spring. > I felt like I was on the trip with him. > Dave you should be an author. > Kudo's to all involved with the K Factor this month. Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 05:54:50 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 13:54:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Message-ID: Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my gps to get to the field. Thx Lotto -- Sent from my Palm Pre -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Fri Aug 7 06:22:17 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:22:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2287D@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Chris, If you can put in an intersection it would be Rauch rd and Minx rd. http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=11601%2BLewis%2BAve%2048182%20us&mag=5&lat=&lon=&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=41.825849&lon=-83.530439&mag=5&zoom=16&q1=12000%2520Minx%252048182%2520us Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Moon Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 9:55 AM To: General discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my gps to get to the field. Thx Lotto -- Sent from my Palm Pre -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Fri Aug 7 06:28:33 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:28:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Need Smaradg Canopy and Frame Message-ID: Flying with a friend yesterday and he lost his Smaradg canopy during flight. When we found it, it was totally destroyed. Anyone have an old canopy and frame laying around they would be will to sell? Doubt we can order one anywhere. thanks Don Atwood -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 7 06:36:38 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:36:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB821@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Chris, Sitting in the parking lot ... Lat: 41 deg 49' 36" N Lng: 83 deg 31' 44" W -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: Chris Moon ; General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 07 10:13:01 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Chris, If you can put in an intersection it would be Rauch rd and Minx rd. http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=11601%2BLewis%2BAve%2048182%20us&mag=5&lat=&lon=&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=41.825849&lon=-83.530439&mag=5&zoom=16&q1=12000%2520Minx%252048182%2520us Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Moon Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 9:55 AM To: General discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my gps to get to the field. Thx Lotto -- Sent from my Palm Pre From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 06:42:14 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 14:42:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB821@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Thx Mark. Be there around 3. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre Atwood, Mark wrote: Chris, Sitting in the parking lot ... Lat: 41 deg 49' 36" N Lng: 83 deg 31' 44" W -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org <nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> To: Chris Moon <cjm767driver at hotmail.com>; General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Fri Aug 07 10:13:01 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Chris, If you can put in an intersection it would be Rauch rd and Minx rd. http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=11601%2BLewis%2BAve%2048182%20us&mag=5&lat=&lon=&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=41.825849&lon=-83.530439&mag=5&zoom=16&q1=12000%2520Minx%252048182%2520us Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Moon Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 9:55 AM To: General discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my gps to get to the field. Thx Lotto -- Sent from my Palm Pre _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Fri Aug 7 07:16:59 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:16:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Electron Addict! From: jlkonn at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 05:36:16 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] My faithful Focus II for sale I sent this out earlier within the district. Thought I'd post it here now. I've decided to sell the Focus II I have flown since the 2007 season. It comes with: Hyde mount with integrated nose ring YS .160DZ just back from Richard at YS and not run since. TruTurn Spinner Jaccio regulator and failsafe switch Bolly F3A Large gear PGB wing tube JR 9411SA's on the ailerons Two Futaba 9650's on the elevators Airtronics 94758Z on rudder A JR mini digital something on throttle (too lazy to uncover the plane and get it down to look) Todd Schmidt wheel pants *NO* receiver! I basically I took the current prices of the above and divided it in half and came up with the asking price of $1350. I have not calculated in any of the assorted hardware, fuel tank, etc. You will need to buy a new header since I broke the last one. The plane has never been damaged...not even a broken prop. I will throw in what few spares I have including a couple YS/OS typeF plugs. I will include my X9303 with 9ch receiver including two satellites for $500. Any questions please don't hesitate! Thanks! JLK (PS...NO! I'm not quiting. Just making room for "E" plane #2!!!) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 07:19:01 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:19:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB821@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <500973.19406.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey Mark you gonna burn a couple if gallons today? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:30 AM > Chris, > > Sitting in the parking lot ... > > Lat: 41 deg 49' 36" N > Lng: 83 deg 31' 44" W > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: Chris Moon ; > General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 07 10:13:01 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > Chris, > > > > If you can put in an intersection it would be Rauch rd and > Minx rd. > > > > http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=11601%2BLewis%2BAve%2048182%20us&mag=5&lat=&lon=&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=41.825849&lon=-83.530439&mag=5&zoom=16&q1=12000%2520Minx%252048182%2520us > > > > Andrew > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Chris Moon > Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 9:55 AM > To: General discussion > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my > gps to get to the field. > Thx > > Lotto > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 7 07:19:51 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:19:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB823@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Hopefully!! -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 07 11:19:00 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Hey Mark you gonna burn a couple if gallons today? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:30 AM > Chris, > > Sitting in the parking lot ... > > Lat: 41 deg 49' 36" N > Lng: 83 deg 31' 44" W > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: Chris Moon ; > General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 07 10:13:01 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > Chris, > > > > If you can put in an intersection it would be Rauch rd and > Minx rd. > > > > http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=11601%2BLewis%2BAve%2048182%20us&mag=5&lat=&lon=&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=41.825849&lon=-83.530439&mag=5&zoom=16&q1=12000%2520Minx%252048182%2520us > > > > Andrew > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Chris Moon > Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 9:55 AM > To: General discussion > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my > gps to get to the field. > Thx > > Lotto > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 7 07:46:09 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:46:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB823@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB823@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <2134832731-1249659963-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-563004788-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Mark - if you want to burn a couple gallons, make sure you fuel the correct plane.....can somone watch after Mark for this purpose while I"m away....hahahaha Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Atwood, Mark" Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:13:43 To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Hopefully!! -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 07 11:19:00 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Hey Mark you gonna burn a couple if gallons today? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:30 AM > Chris, > > Sitting in the parking lot ... > > Lat: 41 deg 49' 36" N > Lng: 83 deg 31' 44" W > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: Chris Moon ; > General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 07 10:13:01 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > Chris, > > > > If you can put in an intersection it would be Rauch rd and > Minx rd. > > > > http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=11601%2BLewis%2BAve%2048182%20us&mag=5&lat=&lon=&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=41.825849&lon=-83.530439&mag=5&zoom=16&q1=12000%2520Minx%252048182%2520us > > > > Andrew > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Chris Moon > Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 9:55 AM > To: General discussion > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my > gps to get to the field. > Thx > > Lotto > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From billpritch at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 07:46:47 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 15:46:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <2134832731-1249659963-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-563004788-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB823@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <2134832731-1249659963-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-563004788-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <923075.62381.qm@web65107.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Klein - I'm on it! Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: "mklein25 at roadrunner.com" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 7, 2009 11:46:08 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Mark - if you want to burn a couple gallons, make sure you fuel the correct plane.....can somone watch after Mark for this purpose while I"m away....hahahaha Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Atwood, Mark" Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:13:43 To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Hopefully!! -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 07 11:19:00 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Hey Mark you gonna burn a couple if gallons today? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 9:30 AM > Chris, > > Sitting in the parking lot ... > > Lat: 41 deg 49' 36" N > Lng: 83 deg 31' 44" W > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: Chris Moon ; > General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 07 10:13:01 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > Chris, > > > > If you can put in an intersection it would be Rauch rd and > Minx rd. > > > > http://maps.yahoo.com/map?q1=11601%2BLewis%2BAve%2048182%20us&mag=5&lat=&lon=&ard=1#mvt=m&lat=41.825849&lon=-83.530439&mag=5&zoom=16&q1=12000%2520Minx%252048182%2520us > > > > Andrew > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Chris Moon > Sent: Friday, 07 August, 2009 9:55 AM > To: General discussion > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > Does anyone have an address or something I can put into my > gps to get to the field. > Thx > > Lotto > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 7 08:01:25 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:01:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <923075.62381.qm@web65107.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB823@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><2134832731-1249659963-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-563004788-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><923075.62381.qm@web65107.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1605170916-1249660883-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-705267815-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Good deal Pritch, thanks....I"ll sleep easier knowing he is cared for Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:46:45 To: ; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 7 08:02:59 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:02:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB824@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Yeah yeah ... Laugh it up!! You're just jealous we're fling! Besides, I fly Airtronics ... We know how to glide ... -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 07 12:01:28 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Good deal Pritch, thanks....I"ll sleep easier knowing he is cared for Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:46:45 To: ; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 7 08:41:46 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:41:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB824@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB824@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <2044382837-1249663304-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-245097883-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I am jealous....wish I were there. Have fun everyone going to Weak Signals! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Atwood, Mark" Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:56:51 To: 'mklein25 at roadrunner.com'; 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Yeah yeah ... Laugh it up!! You're just jealous we're fling! Besides, I fly Airtronics ... We know how to glide ... -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 07 12:01:28 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Good deal Pritch, thanks....I"ll sleep easier knowing he is cared for Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:46:45 To: ; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 08:59:14 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:59:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Message-ID: <352633.85279.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Mike, If it's any consolation I stayed home to play Mr. nice guy too. I asked my wife last night if she really liked me being home this weekend or if it wasn't a big deal. She said that she was really happy I was staying home. I was fishin....... hopin. She says I have a bad addiction. No really? What's the organization for guys like us? PFA? Who wants to be my sponsor? In honor of John Hughes.... Mueller... Mueller...Mueller --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mklein25 at roadrunner.com wrote: > From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 11:41 AM > I am jealous....wish I were > there.? Have fun everyone going to Weak Signals! > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Atwood, Mark" > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:56:51 > To: 'mklein25 at roadrunner.com'; > 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > Yeah yeah ... Laugh it up!!? > > You're just jealous we're fling! > > Besides, I fly Airtronics ... We know how to glide ... > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 07 12:01:28 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > Good deal Pritch, thanks....I"ll sleep easier knowing he is > cared for > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Pritchett > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:46:45 > To: ; > General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Fri Aug 7 09:19:55 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:19:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <352633.85279.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <352633.85279.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1227943336-1249665592-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-127405118-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I am on this family trip with my wife"s family and doing a good job of getting my wife tired of me being around so I can start to fly when I get home :-) We are staying in the same home on bald head island that Kate from Jon abd Kate Plus 8 stayed at last month. It was weird watching that show (I should end the sentence right there, but I won't) and seeing the room we were sitting in on TV. Great getaway spot if anyone is looking for one. I did do some flying.....a kite. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: mike mueller Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:59:13 To: ; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Mike, If it's any consolation I stayed home to play Mr. nice guy too. I asked my wife last night if she really liked me being home this weekend or if it wasn't a big deal. She said that she was really happy I was staying home. I was fishin....... hopin. She says I have a bad addiction. No really? What's the organization for guys like us? PFA? Who wants to be my sponsor? In honor of John Hughes.... Mueller... Mueller...Mueller --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mklein25 at roadrunner.com wrote: > From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 11:41 AM > I am jealous....wish I were > there.? Have fun everyone going to Weak Signals! > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Atwood, Mark" > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:56:51 > To: 'mklein25 at roadrunner.com'; > 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > Yeah yeah ... Laugh it up!!? > > You're just jealous we're fling! > > Besides, I fly Airtronics ... We know how to glide ... > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 07 12:01:28 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > Good deal Pritch, thanks....I"ll sleep easier knowing he is > cared for > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Pritchett > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:46:45 > To: ; > General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > >_______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlkonn at hotmail.com Fri Aug 7 10:11:50 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:11:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano! Message-ID: Congratulations to Rich and the US F3D team! Great showing at the 2009 World Pylon Championships in Germany. Now on to Portugal. Overall 1st : Robbert van den Bosch NED 2nd : Richard Verano USA 3rd : Randy Bridge USA Team 1st: USA 2nd: Netherlands 3rd: Germany JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 7 10:17:40 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:17:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano! Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB82A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Wow ... Awesome. Congrats!!!!! -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: Discussion List Sent: Fri Aug 07 14:11:47 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano! Congratulations to Rich and the US F3D team! Great showing at the 2009 World Pylon Championships in Germany. Now on to Portugal. Overall 1st : Robbert van den Bosch NED 2nd : Richard Verano USA 3rd : Randy Bridge USA Team 1st: USA 2nd: Netherlands 3rd: Germany JLK From wemodels at cox.net Fri Aug 7 10:24:08 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:24:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano! In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB82A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB82A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <4A7C7146.8060801@cox.net> Atwood, Mark wrote: > Wow ... Awesome. > > Congrats!!!!! > -------------------------- > Cool. Tis the season!! F3B going on in the Czech Republic right now (ended today, not sure how US team fared) F3C in Muncie right now F3A coming up All of the members of the various US teams deserve a big congratulations for doing what it takes to make it to the World Stage. Well done to all of you!! From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Aug 7 10:27:46 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:27:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A2582B56C334B4EB10569FE1385F8F3@Tony> Great going Team USA and Rich and Randy!!!!! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:12 PM To: Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano! Congratulations to Rich and the US F3D team! Great showing at the 2009 World Pylon Championships in Germany. Now on to Portugal. Overall 1st : Robbert van den Bosch NED 2nd : Richard Verano USA 3rd : Randy Bridge USA Team 1st: USA 2nd: Netherlands 3rd: Germany JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 10:37:50 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 18:37:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <1227943336-1249665592-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-127405118-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <495433.49905.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Your doing the right thing. Booze........ lots of it. --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mklein25 at roadrunner.com wrote: > From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 12:19 PM > I am on this family trip with my > wife"s family and doing a good job of getting my wife tired > of me being around so I can start to fly when I get home > :-) > > We are staying in the same home on bald head island that > Kate from Jon abd Kate Plus 8 stayed at last month.? It > was weird watching that show (I should end the sentence > right there, but I won't) and seeing the room we were > sitting in on TV.? Great getaway spot if anyone is > looking for one.? I did do some flying.....a kite. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: mike mueller > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:59:13 > To: ; > General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > ? Mike, If it's any consolation I stayed home to play > Mr. nice guy too. > I asked my wife last night if she really liked me being > home this weekend or if it wasn't a big deal. She said that > she was really happy I was staying home. I was fishin....... > hopin. > She says I have a bad addiction. No really? > What's the organization for guys like us? PFA? Who wants > to be my sponsor? > ? ? In honor of John Hughes.... Mueller... > Mueller...Mueller > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mklein25 at roadrunner.com > > wrote: > > > From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 11:41 AM > > I am jealous....wish I were > > there.? Have fun everyone going to Weak Signals! > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Atwood, Mark" > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:56:51 > > To: 'mklein25 at roadrunner.com'; > > 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > > > Yeah yeah ... Laugh it up!!? > > > > You're just jealous we're fling! > > > > Besides, I fly Airtronics ... We know how to glide ... > > > -------------------------- > > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > Sent: Fri Aug 07 12:01:28 2009 > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > Good deal Pritch, thanks....I"ll sleep easier knowing > he is > > cared for > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill Pritchett > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:46:45 > > To: ; > > General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Fri Aug 7 12:10:16 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:10:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] K-Factor Downloads Fixed Message-ID: <3454543c0908071310s2bc982bcy29bcabed92787da2@mail.gmail.com> We apologize for the broken K-Factor downloads but I think we've fixed it now. Please try the K-Factor downloads again and if you continue to have problems please let me know and I'll do my best to correct the issue. The July issue will be available for download later on today... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burtona at atmc.net Fri Aug 7 12:44:44 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 20:44:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. In-Reply-To: <495433.49905.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <1227943336-1249665592-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-127405118-@bxe1255.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <495433.49905.qm@web51002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008a01ca179f$e9e55440$bdaffcc0$@net> Mike, if you need a flying fix, I live about 13-15 miles from Bald Head and have a flying fields at my home. Come help me fly some of my pattern planes if you can get away. Dave Burton -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:38 PM To: mklein25 at roadrunner.com; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. Your doing the right thing. Booze........ lots of it. --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mklein25 at roadrunner.com wrote: > From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 12:19 PM > I am on this family trip with my > wife"s family and doing a good job of getting my wife tired > of me being around so I can start to fly when I get home > :-) > > We are staying in the same home on bald head island that > Kate from Jon abd Kate Plus 8 stayed at last month.? It > was weird watching that show (I should end the sentence > right there, but I won't) and seeing the room we were > sitting in on TV.? Great getaway spot if anyone is > looking for one.? I did do some flying.....a kite. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: mike mueller > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:59:13 > To: ; > General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > ? Mike, If it's any consolation I stayed home to play > Mr. nice guy too. > I asked my wife last night if she really liked me being > home this weekend or if it wasn't a big deal. She said that > she was really happy I was staying home. I was fishin....... > hopin. > She says I have a bad addiction. No really? > What's the organization for guys like us? PFA? Who wants > to be my sponsor? > ? ? In honor of John Hughes.... Mueller... > Mueller...Mueller > > --- On Fri, 8/7/09, mklein25 at roadrunner.com > > wrote: > > > From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 11:41 AM > > I am jealous....wish I were > > there.? Have fun everyone going to Weak Signals! > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: "Atwood, Mark" > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:56:51 > > To: 'mklein25 at roadrunner.com'; > > 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > > > Yeah yeah ... Laugh it up!!? > > > > You're just jealous we're fling! > > > > Besides, I fly Airtronics ... We know how to glide ... > > > -------------------------- > > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > > > To: General pattern discussion > > Sent: Fri Aug 07 12:01:28 2009 > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > Good deal Pritch, thanks....I"ll sleep easier knowing > he is > > cared for > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill Pritchett > > > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 08:46:45 > > To: ; > > General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weak Signals field. > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tewalker10 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 7 13:15:36 2009 From: tewalker10 at yahoo.com (Terrence Walker) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 21:15:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Need Smaradg Canopy and Frame In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <526540.14224.qm@web35508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don, ? Was it Bill's plane? --- On Fri, 8/7/09, AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: From: AtwoodDon at aol.com Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Need Smaradg Canopy and Frame To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, August 7, 2009, 7:28 AM Flying with a?friend yesterday and he lost his Smaradg canopy during flight.? When we found it, it was totally destroyed.? Anyone have an old canopy and frame laying around they would be will to sell?? Doubt we can order one anywhere. ? thanks Don Atwood -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kennedybryan at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 8 03:16:51 2009 From: kennedybryan at bellsouth.net (Bryan Kennedy) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:16:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest Message-ID: <82437725C6824BBD9BE0278AC5680808@BryanKennedyPC> FAI and P11 and F11 at the RCRC Pattern Contest Since the RCRC Pattern contest will be after the worlds, how many of the FAI pilots who are planning to attend would like to fly P11 F11? We could do this however there is only one thing. We would have to eliminate the roller in P and F due to the tennis courts. We could just fly right through that one and score everyone the same. Please let me know if you all want to do this and I will formally announce and make plans for flying P11, F11 Look forward to seeing everyone, don't forget to pre-register, http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2009-Pattern/reg_form.php Thanks Bryan Contest Director -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Sat Aug 8 05:04:36 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:04:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest In-Reply-To: <82437725C6824BBD9BE0278AC5680808@BryanKennedyPC> References: <82437725C6824BBD9BE0278AC5680808@BryanKennedyPC> Message-ID: <000901ca1828$bbb54ce0$331fe6a0$@net> Bryan, What they do in D6 after the worlds is just fly P for the remaining of the year and then start flying F next year. This kind of eases the transition. Makes it a lot easier and you only have to learn 1 pattern at a time, Arch From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Kennedy Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:16 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest FAI and P11 and F11 at the RCRC Pattern Contest Since the RCRC Pattern contest will be after the worlds, how many of the FAI pilots who are planning to attend would like to fly P11 F11? We could do this however there is only one thing. We would have to eliminate the roller in P and F due to the tennis courts. We could just fly right through that one and score everyone the same. Please let me know if you all want to do this and I will formally announce and make plans for flying P11, F11 Look forward to seeing everyone, don't forget to pre-register, http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2009-Pattern/reg_form.php Thanks Bryan Contest Director -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kennedybryan at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 8 05:22:29 2009 From: kennedybryan at bellsouth.net (Bryan Kennedy) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 13:22:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest In-Reply-To: <000901ca1828$bbb54ce0$331fe6a0$@net> Message-ID: <48E5BD5A4BA34C0DAA2A0C6704EFCD31@BryanKennedyPC> Thanks Arch, I meant the roller in F, not P and F. Just wanted to propose flying the new sequence since our contest is after the worlds. Looking forward to the feedback from everyone who plans to fly FAI and we can determine how we want to handle it. Thanks Bryan -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:04 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest Bryan, What they do in D6 after the worlds is just fly P for the remaining of the year and then start flying F next year. This kind of eases the transition. Makes it a lot easier and you only have to learn 1 pattern at a time, Arch From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Kennedy Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:16 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest FAI and P11 and F11 at the RCRC Pattern Contest Since the RCRC Pattern contest will be after the worlds, how many of the FAI pilots who are planning to attend would like to fly P11 F11? We could do this however there is only one thing. We would have to eliminate the roller in P and F due to the tennis courts. We could just fly right through that one and score everyone the same. Please let me know if you all want to do this and I will formally announce and make plans for flying P11, F11 Look forward to seeing everyone, don't forget to pre-register, http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2009-Pattern/reg_form.php Thanks Bryan Contest Director -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 8 08:07:15 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:07:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest In-Reply-To: <48E5BD5A4BA34C0DAA2A0C6704EFCD31@BryanKennedyPC> References: <48E5BD5A4BA34C0DAA2A0C6704EFCD31@BryanKennedyPC> Message-ID: <170225.46243.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Arch is right, generally, the FAI pilots in D6 will concur and subsequenlty request that all CD's fly?the FAI P-Pattenr be flown after the Nats/Worlds.? This give everyone a chance to warm up to the P pattern in the fall and then come out of the closet?in the spring ready to do the P Saturday, F Sunday that has become the?norm?at all of our contests here for?the last few years. Richard ________________________________ From: Bryan Kennedy To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 8:21:56 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest Thanks Arch, I meant the roller in F, not P and F. Just wanted to propose flying the new sequence since our contest is after the worlds. Looking forward to the feedback from everyone who plans to fly FAI and we can determine how we want to handle it. ? ? Thanks ? Bryan ? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:04 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest ? Bryan, ? What they do in D6 after the worlds is just fly P for the remaining of the year and then start flying F next year.? This kind of eases the transition.? Makes it a lot easier and you only have to learn 1 pattern at a time, ? Arch ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Kennedy Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 6:16 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest ? FAI and P11 and F11 at the RCRC Pattern Contest Since the RCRC Pattern contest will be after the worlds, how many of the FAI pilots who are planning to attend would like to fly P11 F11? We could do this however there is only one thing. We would have to eliminate the roller in P and F due to the tennis courts. We could just fly right through that one and score everyone the same. Please let me know if you all want to do this and I will formally announce and make plans for flying P11, F11 Look forward to seeing everyone, don't forget to pre-register, http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2009-Pattern/reg_form.php Thanks Bryan Contest Director -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sat Aug 8 17:56:43 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 01:56:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <000901ca1828$bbb54ce0$331fe6a0$@net> References: <82437725C6824BBD9BE0278AC5680808@BryanKennedyPC> <000901ca1828$bbb54ce0$331fe6a0$@net> Message-ID: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy, OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 18:05:51 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:05:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> Message-ID: Main bearing. ?No acceleration and loading up are classic signs. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre Lisa n Larry wrote: I?m trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy, OH contest next weekend? ? When running at idle or the engine isn?t running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle? ? If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it?s fine?When at half throttle and lower it will bog down?. ? HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. ? This is a used engine already installed in a plane? ? Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with???? ? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sat Aug 8 18:14:29 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:14:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> Message-ID: <1ACBC45A65BE454B8ABD486DE6D93617@LLDPC> When I get it lean by pinching the fuel tube it will transition ok until it loads up again. Is this consistent with the main bearing. I have a set of bearings to install if needed.Would rather not, unless this is the cause. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Moon Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:07 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Main bearing. No acceleration and loading up are classic signs. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre _____ Lisa n Larry wrote: I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy, OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Snaproll4 at aol.com Sat Aug 8 18:24:10 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:24:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Message-ID: To check the main bearing: When the engine is warm, rock the prop back and forth. A very little play is OK. Anything more needs replacing. It is unlikely the front bearing needs replacing. I always ran my 140 1 turn out on the HE needle. I would start with the low end needle. 140's have always run rich on the low end. Steve In a message dated 8/8/2009 10:14:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lld613 at psci.net writes: When I get it lean by pinching the fuel tube it will transition ok until it loads up again? Is this consistent with the main bearing. I have a set of bearings to install if needed?Would rather not, unless this is the cause? Larry ____________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Chris Moon Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:07 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Main bearing. No acceleration and loading up are classic signs. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre ____________________________________ Lisa n Larry wrote: I?m trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy, OH contest next weekend? When running at idle or the engine isn?t running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle? If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it?s fine?When at half throttle and lower it will bog down ?. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane? Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with???? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Sat Aug 8 18:31:07 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:31:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1962359140.10209251249785066651.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I agree with Chris.? Furthermore it is used engine.? Replace the bearings before loosing more time is the best way to fix it. Good luck, Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: Snaproll4@ aol .com To: nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2009 9:24:02 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To check the main bearing:? When the engine is warm, rock the prop back and forth.? A very little play is OK.? Anything more needs replacing.? It is unlikely the front bearing needs replacing.? I always ran my 140 1 turn out on the HE needle.? I would start with the low end needle.? 140's have?always run rich on the low end. Steve In a message dated 8/8/2009 10:14:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lld613@ psci .net writes: When I get it lean by pinching the fuel tube it will transition ok until it loads up again? Is this consistent with the main bearing. I have a set of bearings to install if needed?Would rather not, unless this is the cause? Larry From: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org [mailto: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org] On Behalf Of Chris Moon Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:07 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Main bearing. ?No acceleration and loading up are classic signs. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre Lisa n Larry wrote: I?m trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy, OH contest next weekend? When running at idle or the engine isn?t running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle? If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it?s fine?When at half throttle and lower it will bog down?. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane? Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with???? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/listinfo/ nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/listinfo/ nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/listinfo/ nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Snaproll4 at aol.com Sat Aug 8 18:35:09 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 02:35:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: OS 140RX Need Help Message-ID: ____________________________________ From: Snaproll4 To: cjm767driver at hotmail.com Sent: 8/8/2009 10:32:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time Subj: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Larry, Replacing the main bearing is so easy you might as well do it. If it's a used plane that you have no history with, the bearing could be the cause. It is the only maintenance necessary on this motor. If the pump still has the paint seal on it, don't screw with it. Steve In a message dated 8/8/2009 10:06:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjm767driver at hotmail.com writes: HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane? ____________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d_bodary at yahoo.com Sat Aug 8 19:31:31 2009 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com (Dennis Bodary) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 03:31:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> Message-ID: <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I?m trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend? ? When running at idle or the engine isn?t running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle? ? If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it?s fine?When at half throttle and lower it will bog down?. ? HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. ? This is a used engine already installed in a plane? ? Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with???? ? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sat Aug 8 19:37:32 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 03:37:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sat Aug 8 19:54:57 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 03:54:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> References: <82437725C6824BBD9BE0278AC5680808@BryanKennedyPC> <000901ca1828$bbb54ce0$331fe6a0$@net> <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> Message-ID: You may have other issues as per previous suggestions (bearing, clogs etc), but it could also be the low speed needle setting. A too rich setting will cause it quit at idle and load up in the midrange. Ed From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:57 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy, OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 9 00:45:42 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 08:45:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net> losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 05:18:42 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:18:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <38BDA9E63A3142778BE0951442534FF1@LLDPC> When injecting alcohol into the inlet, do I disconnect the fuel line to the carb or let it flush through the carb with the HS needle removed.Does it matter? _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 05:44:32 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:44:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <38BDA9E63A3142778BE0951442534FF1@LLDPC> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <38BDA9E63A3142778BE0951442534FF1@LLDPC> Message-ID: I would disconnect it to avoid flushing gunk into the spray bar. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:18 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help When injecting alcohol into the inlet, do I disconnect the fuel line to the carb or let it flush through the carb with the HS needle removed.Does it matter? _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 06:14:59 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 14:14:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net> Message-ID: I have the stock needle.. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing.P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed. There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor. My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds.If no go, then replace the main bearing. Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted.Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 08:41:31 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:41:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com><000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net> Message-ID: <4D6DC04314D24DB6935798B09EEACDFC@LLDPC> I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle.. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing.P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed. There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor. My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds.If no go, then replace the main bearing. Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted.Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From burtona at atmc.net Sun Aug 9 08:49:11 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:49:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <4D6DC04314D24DB6935798B09EEACDFC@LLDPC> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com><000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net> <4D6DC04314D24DB6935798B09EEACDFC@LLDPC> Message-ID: <008b01ca1911$5751af70$05f50e50$@net> I've never had an OS 140RX so I'm certainly no expert on them but it sounds like you are too rich on the low end to me. You may still need a bearing change and new ones won't hurt but I'd try a little leaner bottom end first. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle.. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing.P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed. There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor. My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds.If no go, then replace the main bearing. Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted.Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 9 08:54:46 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:54:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <008b01ca1911$5751af70$05f50e50$@net> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net> <4D6DC04314D24DB6935798B09EEACDFC@LLDPC> <008b01ca1911$5751af70$05f50e50$@net> Message-ID: <20090809165446.41D69115A2@bridi.netexpress.com> Larry, I have run the 140RX -- FANTASTIC engine!!! I agree with Dave. When you pinch the fuel line, you lean out the engine temporarily, so it picks up speed until it dries out and quits. Lean the low-speed needle until it will idle "forever" -- a minute or more, and pick up smoothly through midrange to full throttle without hesitation. I have never had my 140RX stall, at idle or in the air... At 12:49 PM 8/9/2009, you wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/related; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01CA18EF.D0400F70" >Content-Language: en-us > >I?ve never had an OS 140RX so I?m certainly no >expert on them but it sounds like you are too >rich on the low end to me. You may still need a >bearing change and new ones won?t hurt but >I?d try a little leaner bottom end first. > >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM >To: 'General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help > >I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump >and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If >I let it sit it will drip a little now and not >at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... > >Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. >I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop >15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). > >However, once it idles for any length of time or >even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as >soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I >pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If >I go high then low and back to high throttle >without too much delay it transitions well. If >I'm at idle for about the same time as stall >turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... > >This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in >on as the symptom of a main >bearing >going bad... > >Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... > >Again, Thanks for all the help.... > > >---------- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM >To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help > >I have the stock needle . > >My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing P/N >6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed > >There appears to be no detectable play in the >main bearing currently installed in the motor > >My strategy is to flush the pump first and see >how it responds If no go, then replace the main bearing > >Thanks for all the help, I will keep you >posted Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today > >Larry > > >---------- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park >Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM >To: 'General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help > >losmg7025.jpg > > >61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. > >losmg7052.jpg > > >Stock needle for 70A carb. > >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM >To: 'General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help > >Dennis, as always you are right on the money > >I have not touched the pump or anything else >other than the HS needle I believe it is either >an OS # 8 or a ?F? I don?t have a 61 FX > >Always coming back to the main bearing There seems to be a trend here > >I haven?t flown a contest in over two >years Looking to get back in the saddle I appreciate all the help . > >Larry > >PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL > > > > >---------- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary >Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help > >I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. >try injecting some straight methanol into the >pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump >is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. >Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking >you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as >the backplate is part of the pump you may or may >not even be able to put it back together. >Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. >never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. >Another thought is check the needle valve >against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the >same you are okay. If the needle taper part is >different try the 61FX needle valve. It may >already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. >If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. > >--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: > >From: Lisa n Larry >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help >To: "'General pattern discussion'" >Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM >I?m trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend > >When running at idle or the engine isn?t >running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get >it started, but loads up in about ten seconds >and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle > > >If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and >recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle >it?s fine When at half throttle and lower it will bog down . > >HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from >about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. > >This is a used engine already installed in a plane > >Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being >too high or do I have other problems to deal with ??? > >Larry Diamond >NSRCA 3083 > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fa493ef.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fa493ff.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 09:24:59 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:24:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <20090809165446.41D69115A2@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC><143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com><000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net><4D6DC04314D24DB6935798B09EEACDFC@LLDPC><008b01ca1911$5751af70$05f50e50$@net> <20090809165446.41D69115A2@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <7F4ECC7F5B57476E9D62C683E77D5DF5@LLDPC> OK.as I said, I haven't done this before. I've removed the clip from the wrist pin in the piston. What's the trick to pulling the wrist pin? Is it threaded for a screw? If yes, what size.I'm assuming metric. Since I have the bearing, I'm going to replace it.Once I had the prop off, it does feel very rough.Couldn't tell it with the prop on and rolling it back and forth. I'll adjust the LE needle once I put it back together if needed. The previous owner sent me an e-mail this morning and said he it was running fine last fall. He also gave be a main bearing and other parts as well. Based on all the info, I'm replacing the bearing before I start with adjusting the LE.. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 11:55 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Larry, I have run the 140RX -- FANTASTIC engine!!! I agree with Dave. When you pinch the fuel line, you lean out the engine temporarily, so it picks up speed until it dries out and quits. Lean the low-speed needle until it will idle "forever" -- a minute or more, and pick up smoothly through midrange to full throttle without hesitation. I have never had my 140RX stall, at idle or in the air... At 12:49 PM 8/9/2009, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01CA18EF.D0400F70" Content-Language: en-us I've never had an OS 140RX so I'm certainly no expert on them but it sounds like you are too rich on the low end to me. You may still need a bearing change and new ones won't hurt but I'd try a little leaner bottom end first. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle.. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing.P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed. There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor. My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds.If no go, then replace the main bearing. Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted.Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ronlock at comcast.net Sun Aug 9 09:36:45 2009 From: ronlock at comcast.net (ronlock at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:36:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <20090809165446.41D69115A2@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <2109511535.9949371249839403274.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> This is a "me too" suggestion to lean the idle. I find my OS 140s have done best when idle is definitely on the lean side - Ron Lockhart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Spelt" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 12:54:48 PM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Larry, I have run the 140RX -- FANTASTIC engine!!! I agree with Dave. When you pinch the fuel line, you lean out the engine temporarily, so it picks up speed until it dries out and quits. Lean the low-speed needle until it will idle "forever" -- a minute or more, and pick up smoothly through midrange to full throttle without hesitation. I have never had my 140RX stall, at idle or in the air... At 12:49 PM 8/9/2009, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01CA18EF.D0400F70" Content-Language: en-us I?ve never had an OS 140RX so I?m certainly no expert on them but it sounds like you are too rich on the low end to me. You may still need a bearing change and new ones won?t hurt but I?d try a little leaner bottom end first. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle?. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing?P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed? There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor? My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds?If no go, then replace the main bearing? Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted?Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today? Larry From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money? I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle?I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a ?F??I don?t have a 61 FX? Always coming back to the main bearing?There seems to be a trend here? I haven?t flown a contest in over two years?Looking to get back in the saddle?I appreciate all the help?. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I?m trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend? When running at idle or the engine isn?t running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle? If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it?s fine?When at half throttle and lower it will bog down?. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane? Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with???? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fa493ef.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fa493ff.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Snaproll4 at aol.com Sun Aug 9 09:43:57 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:43:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Message-ID: Don't pull the wrist pin. Unless this part is really gummed up, don't bother. The rough feeling bearing is a sign you're moving in the right direction. In a message dated 8/9/2009 1:25:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lld613 at psci.net writes: OK?as I said, I haven?t done this before? I?ve removed the clip from the wrist pin in the piston? What?s the trick to pulling the wrist pin? Is it threaded for a screw? If yes, what size?I?m assuming metric? Since I have the bearing, I?m going to replace it?Once I had the prop off, it does feel very rough?Couldn?t tell it with the prop on and rolling it back and forth? I?ll adjust the LE needle once I put it back together if needed. The previous owner sent me an e-mail this morning and said he it was running fine last fall. He also gave be a main bearing and other parts as well. Based on all the info, I?m replacing the bearing before I start with adjusting the LE?. Larry ____________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 11:55 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Larry, I have run the 140RX -- FANTASTIC engine!!! I agree with Dave. When you pinch the fuel line, you lean out the engine temporarily, so it picks up speed until it dries out and quits. Lean the low-speed needle until it will idle "forever" -- a minute or more, and pick up smoothly through midrange to full throttle without hesitation. I have never had my 140RX stall, at idle or in the air... At 12:49 PM 8/9/2009, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01CA18EF.D0400F70" Content-Language: en-us I?ve never had an OS 140RX so I?m certainly no expert on them but it sounds like you are too rich on the low end to me. You may still need a bearing change and new ones won?t hurt but I?d try a little leaner bottom end first. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [_ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main _bearing_ (http://www.rcuniverse.com/buynow/keywordclick.cfm?bid_id=6534) going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... ____________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [_ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle?. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing?P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed? There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor? My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds?If no go, then replace the main bearing? Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted?Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today? Larry ____________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [_ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) ] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [_ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money? I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle?I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a ?F??I don?t have a 61 FX? Always coming back to the main bearing?There seems to be a trend here? I haven?t flown a contest in over two years?Looking to get back in the saddle?I appreciate all the help?. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL? ____________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [_ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org) ] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I?m trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend? When running at idle or the engine isn?t running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle? If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it?s fine?When at half throttle and lower it will bog down? . HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane? Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with???? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list _NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org_ (http://us.mc517.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org) _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: _http://www.kcrctn.com _ (http://www.kcrctn.com/) AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: _http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ _ (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/) (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115 &bcd=JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 10:11:27 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:11:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <4D6DC04314D24DB6935798B09EEACDFC@LLDPC> References: <254DEFD267004E6191346D3D44CBB60B@LLDPC> <143986.71496.qm@web51707.mail.re2.yahoo.com><000301ca18cd$c2ff1620$48fd4260$@net> <4D6DC04314D24DB6935798B09EEACDFC@LLDPC> Message-ID: The low speed needle needs adjustment. It's set too rich. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle.. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing.P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed. There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor. My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds.If no go, then replace the main bearing. Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted.Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 10:13:54 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 18:13:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC> I found the trick with a little help.I replaced the clip and left the wrist pin alone.Got the piston and rod off.No prying necessary, ready for the easy bake oven. I really love my wife Lisa, the work is being done on our kitchen table and now I'm going to bake the engine in her new oven.VBG Too all those that recommended replacing the bearing.You helped to save this engine. I pulled the crankshaft and the balls of the main started to fall out, the bearing spacer clip is broken in numerous places. This engine would have died a painful death. There was no damage to the crank shaft. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Snaproll4 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:44 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Don't pull the wrist pin. Unless this part is really gummed up, don't bother. The rough feeling bearing is a sign you're moving in the right direction. In a message dated 8/9/2009 1:25:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lld613 at psci.net writes: OK.as I said, I haven't done this before. I've removed the clip from the wrist pin in the piston. What's the trick to pulling the wrist pin? Is it threaded for a screw? If yes, what size.I'm assuming metric. Since I have the bearing, I'm going to replace it.Once I had the prop off, it does feel very rough.Couldn't tell it with the prop on and rolling it back and forth. I'll adjust the LE needle once I put it back together if needed. The previous owner sent me an e-mail this morning and said he it was running fine last fall. He also gave be a main bearing and other parts as well. Based on all the info, I'm replacing the bearing before I start with adjusting the LE.. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 11:55 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Larry, I have run the 140RX -- FANTASTIC engine!!! I agree with Dave. When you pinch the fuel line, you lean out the engine temporarily, so it picks up speed until it dries out and quits. Lean the low-speed needle until it will idle "forever" -- a minute or more, and pick up smoothly through midrange to full throttle without hesitation. I have never had my 140RX stall, at idle or in the air... At 12:49 PM 8/9/2009, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01CA18EF.D0400F70" Content-Language: en-us I've never had an OS 140RX so I'm certainly no expert on them but it sounds like you are too rich on the low end to me. You may still need a bearing change and new ones won't hurt but I'd try a little leaner bottom end first. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle.. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing.P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed. There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor. My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds.If no go, then replace the main bearing. Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted.Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 12:25:54 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 20:25:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC> References: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC> Message-ID: <679279.98061.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's OK Larry, we love your wife too . . . . :) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Lisa n Larry To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:13:40 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I found the trick with a little help?I replaced the clip and left the wrist pin alone?Got the piston and rod off?No prying necessary, ready for the easy bake oven? I really love my wife Lisa, the work is being done on our kitchen table and now I?m going to bake the engine in her new oven?VBG Too all those that recommended replacing the bearing?You helped to save this engine. I pulled the crankshaft and the balls of the main started to fall out, the bearing spacer clip is broken in numerous places. This engine would have died a painful death? There was no damage to the crank shaft? Larry ________________________________ From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Snaproll4 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:44 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Don't pull the wrist pin. Unless this part is really gummed up, don't bother. The rough feeling bearing is a sign you're moving in the right direction. In a message dated 8/9/2009 1:25:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lld613 at psci.net writes: OK?as I said, I haven?t done this before? > >I?ve removed the clip from the wrist pin in the piston? >What?s the trick to pulling the wrist pin? Is it threaded for >a screw? > >If yes, what size?I?m assuming metric? > >Since I have the bearing, I?m going to replace it?Once >I had the prop off, it does feel very rough?Couldn?t tell it with >the prop on and rolling it back and forth? > >I?ll adjust the LE needle once I put it back together if >needed. > >The previous owner sent me an e-mail this morning and said he it >was running fine last fall. He also gave be a main bearing and other parts as >well. Based on all the info, I?m replacing the bearing before I start >with adjusting the LE?. > >Larry > > ________________________________ > >From:>nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt >Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 >11:55 AM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS >140RX Need Help > >Larry, > >>I have run the 140RX -- FANTASTIC engine!!! I agree with Dave. When >you pinch the fuel line, you lean out the engine temporarily, so it picks up >speed until it dries out and quits. Lean the low-speed needle until it >will idle "forever" -- a minute or more, and pick up smoothly through >midrange to full throttle without hesitation. I have never had my 140RX >stall, at idle or in the air... > >>At 12:49 PM 8/9/2009, you wrote: >Content-Type: multipart/related; >> >boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01CA18EF.D0400F70" >>Content-Language: en-us > >>I?ve never had an OS 140RX so I?m certainly no expert on them but >it sounds like you are too rich on the low end to me. You may still need a >bearing change and new ones won?t hurt but I?d try a little >leaner bottom end first. >> >From: >nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 >12:41 PM >To: ' >General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS >140RX Need Help >> >>I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up >quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. >So that seems to be under control... > >>Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 >bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). > >>However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog >down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel >tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle >without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same >time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... > >>This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing >going bad... > >>Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... > >>Again, Thanks for all the help.... >> > ________________________________ > >From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 >AM >To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; ' >General pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS >140RX Need Help >> >>I have the stock needle?. >> >>My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing?P/N 6904Z and it is either >shielded or sealed? >> >>There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed >in the motor? >> >>My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds?If no go, >then replace the main bearing? >> >>Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted?Hopefully we will get a >few practice flights in yet today? >> >>Larry >> > ________________________________ > >From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > > > >Ihncheol >Park >Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 >AM >To: ' >General > pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS >140RX Need Help >> > >> >>61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. >> > >> >>Stock needle for 70A carb. >> >From: >nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 >10:37 PM >To: ' >General > pattern discussion' >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS >140RX Need Help >> >>Dennis, as always you are right on the money? >> >>I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle?I >believe it is either an OS # 8 or a ?F??I don?t have a >61 FX? >> >>Always coming back to the main bearing?There seems to be a trend >here? >> >>I haven?t flown a contest in over two years?Looking to get back in >the saddle?I appreciate all the help?. >> >>Larry >> >>PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL? >> >> >> > ________________________________ > >From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [>mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary >Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 >10:31 PM >To: >General > pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS >140RX Need Help >> >>I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight >methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is >congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. >>Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff >will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be >able to put it back together. >>Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 >plug that came with it. >>Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve >looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX >needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a >optional part. >>If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. > >>--- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: >From: Lisa n Larry >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need >Help >To: "' >General > pattern discussion'" >Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM >I?m trying to get a plane going to >make the > > >Quincy, >OHcontest next weekend? > >When running at idle or the engine >isn?t running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but >loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the >throttle? > >>If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near >full throttle it?s fine?When at half throttle and lower it will bog >down?. >> >>HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don?t know >the pump settings. >> >>This is a used engine already installed in a plane? >> >>Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other >problems to deal with???? >> >>Larry Diamond >>NSRCA 3083 > >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >--> >There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and >targets. > >Phil Spelt, Webmaster >& Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. >> URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >> My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 13:01:08 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:01:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help In-Reply-To: <679279.98061.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC> <679279.98061.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <247B31AD08604DFDAA4FA459AA4AA626@LLDPC> First I want to thank Jeff Hughes. He and Steve Maxwell were the two that helped me get started in pattern in 2003. Jeff spent about an hour total with me on the phone talking me through the main bearing replacement. The engine is running strong. I replaced the front bearing, rear bearing, and piston ring (Dennis told me how to do it right) because I didn't follow proper directions. Idle's reliably for over a minute at 2,000 RPM.No Hesitation transitioning to full throttle and no spitting fuel out of the carb at all. I did not need to mess with the LE needle. So the solution to this was. 1) Purge the pump with denatured alcohol. I used about 5 ounces. 2) Replaced the main bearing. Thanks a toon for everyone's input. Larry PS.Hope to see ya at Quincy next weekend for those attending. You may want to bring hard hats while you judge my flights.vbg _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:26 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help That's OK Larry, we love your wife too . . . . :) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _____ From: Lisa n Larry To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 2:13:40 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I found the trick with a little help.I replaced the clip and left the wrist pin alone.Got the piston and rod off.No prying necessary, ready for the easy bake oven. I really love my wife Lisa, the work is being done on our kitchen table and now I'm going to bake the engine in her new oven.VBG Too all those that recommended replacing the bearing.You helped to save this engine. I pulled the crankshaft and the balls of the main started to fall out, the bearing spacer clip is broken in numerous places. This engine would have died a painful death. There was no damage to the crank shaft. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Snaproll4 at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:44 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Don't pull the wrist pin. Unless this part is really gummed up, don't bother. The rough feeling bearing is a sign you're moving in the right direction. In a message dated 8/9/2009 1:25:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lld613 at psci.net writes: OK.as I said, I haven't done this before. I've removed the clip from the wrist pin in the piston. What's the trick to pulling the wrist pin? Is it threaded for a screw? If yes, what size.I'm assuming metric. Since I have the bearing, I'm going to replace it.Once I had the prop off, it does feel very rough.Couldn't tell it with the prop on and rolling it back and forth. I'll adjust the LE needle once I put it back together if needed. The previous owner sent me an e-mail this morning and said he it was running fine last fall. He also gave be a main bearing and other parts as well. Based on all the info, I'm replacing the bearing before I start with adjusting the LE.. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 11:55 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Larry, I have run the 140RX -- FANTASTIC engine!!! I agree with Dave. When you pinch the fuel line, you lean out the engine temporarily, so it picks up speed until it dries out and quits. Lean the low-speed needle until it will idle "forever" -- a minute or more, and pick up smoothly through midrange to full throttle without hesitation. I have never had my 140RX stall, at idle or in the air... At 12:49 PM 8/9/2009, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008C_01CA18EF.D0400F70" Content-Language: en-us I've never had an OS 140RX so I'm certainly no expert on them but it sounds like you are too rich on the low end to me. You may still need a bearing change and new ones won't hurt but I'd try a little leaner bottom end first. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:41 PM To: ' General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I pushed some Denatured Alcohol through the pump and it seemed to clear that up quite a bit...If I let it sit it will drip a little now and not at all at idle. So that seems to be under control... Now it idles very well and I can adjust top end. I'm getting about 7,900 on a 4 bladed prop 15.5x12 APC w/ PM Mean Green (15% w/ 18% all synthetic oil). However, once it idles for any length of time or even 1/2 throttle, it will bog down and quite as soon as I start to advance the throttle. If I pinch the fuel tube it will pick up and run. If I go high then low and back to high throttle without too much delay it transitions well. If I'm at idle for about the same time as stall turn down line (2 or 3 seconds) it will bog down... This is what I'm assuming everyone has keyed in on as the symptom of a main bearing going bad... Off to surgery...now I get to see what the inside of a 140RX looks like... Again, Thanks for all the help.... _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:15 AM To: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net; ' General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I have the stock needle.. My main spare bearing is a Boca Bearing.P/N 6904Z and it is either shielded or sealed. There appears to be no detectable play in the main bearing currently installed in the motor. My strategy is to flush the pump first and see how it responds.If no go, then replace the main bearing. Thanks for all the help, I will keep you posted.Hopefully we will get a few practice flights in yet today. Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 3:46 AM To: ' General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help losmg7025.jpg 61FX needle is longer than the one on 70A. losmg7052.jpg Stock needle for 70A carb. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:37 PM To: ' General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help Dennis, as always you are right on the money. I have not touched the pump or anything else other than the HS needle.I believe it is either an OS # 8 or a "F".I don't have a 61 FX. Always coming back to the main bearing.There seems to be a trend here. I haven't flown a contest in over two years.Looking to get back in the saddle.I appreciate all the help.. Larry PS, Dennis you just want to see my caller LOL. _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dennis Bodary Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help I am assuming this engine has sat for awhile. try injecting some straight methanol into the pump inlet line just in case the oil in the pump is congealed. denatured alchohol will work fine for this. Do not take the pump off the backplate thinking you can clean it out. Bad stuff will happen as the backplate is part of the pump you may or may not even be able to put it back together. Also try a OS F plug or the YS 4 stroke plug. never had any luck with the A5 plug that came with it. Another thought is check the needle valve against a OS61FX if the needle valve looks the same you are okay. If the needle taper part is different try the 61FX needle valve. It may already be in the engine as it comes with the engine as a optional part. If all else fails try replacing the rear bearing. --- On Sat, 8/8/09, Lisa n Larry wrote: From: Lisa n Larry Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help To: "' General pattern discussion'" Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009, 9:56 PM I'm trying to get a plane going to make the Quincy , OH contest next weekend. When running at idle or the engine isn't running, fuel leaks out of the carb. I can get it started, but loads up in about ten seconds and bogs down and dies when increasing the throttle. If I pinch the fuel line, it leans out and recovers. As long as I stay near full throttle it's fine.When at half throttle and lower it will bog down.. HS needle is at about 1-3/4 out leaned from about 2 turns out. I don't know the pump settings. This is a used engine already installed in a plane. Is it just a matter of the pump pressure being too high or do I have other problems to deal with.??? Larry Diamond NSRCA 3083 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 17765 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 19663 bytes Desc: not available URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 13:02:04 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:02:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Message-ID: <976655.93258.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Sun Aug 9 13:11:21 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:11:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <976655.93258.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Great time. Thanks to Bob and Tim. Well worth the 8 hr drive. The famous pattern dog is out cold sleeping....only 5 more hrs to home. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre Bob Kane wrote: I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Sun Aug 9 13:18:04 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:18:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53CAB367-AA0B-4098-8573-E6517616AA44@soaringsoftware.com> Chris, Thanks for coming out, it was a blast! It was great to see everyone fly in the crazy winds today. Btw; I was cleaning the field and I do believe that Dave cook left his camera at the field. If anyone has his addy or number please forward it to me so I can get it back to him. Andrew Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2009, at 5:02 PM, "Chris Moon" > wrote: Great time. Thanks to Bob and Tim. Well worth the 8 hr drive. The famous pattern dog is out cold sleeping....only 5 more hrs to home. Chris -- Sent from my Palm Pre ________________________________ Bob Kane wrote: I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d_bodary at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 13:19:28 2009 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com (Dennis Bodary) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:19:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <976655.93258.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <949559.23015.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Sun Aug 9 13:26:52 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:26:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <949559.23015.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <949559.23015.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dennis, It's always great fun when your around. Hope to see you guys at the districts. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Dennis Bodary" > wrote: I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane > wrote: From: Bob Kane > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" >, "D5" > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 13:31:21 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:31:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <352546.52823.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I wish I could have been there but at least I got to fly with Jerry Budd today at my field. Man those winds were tough today! Almost as bad as the Tri Village contest in late June. I got all the updates from your contest from my many friends. Andrew,Mickey wanted to know why the winds calmed down everytime you flew? I think we know the answer to that. Good luck in Portugal have a blast and take care on the P's. Mike Mueller --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Andrew Jesky wrote: > From: Andrew Jesky > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:17 PM > Dennis, > It's always great fun when your around. Hope > to see you guys at the districts. > > Sent from my iPhone > On Aug 9, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Dennis Bodary" > > wrote: > > I had a good time even > though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. > > --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane > wrote: > > > From: Bob Kane > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to > everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics > contest a success > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, > "D4" , > "D5" > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM > > > I just returned home from the Weak > Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady > rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain > did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the > runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but > stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low > 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for > some challenging conditions. > > We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two > more rounds today. Results: > > Sportsman: > > Bruce Herider (No flights) > Tim Jesky (No flights) > > Intermediate: > > Ron Hansen > Jim Gruntkowski > Mike Gaishin > Gary Stephens > Loren Noyes > David Cook > > Advanced: > > Bill Pritchett > Bob Condra > Ken Alexander > Anthony Abdullah > Mike Darr > Mike Murphy > Ethan Chariandy > Charles Williams (no flights) > > Masters: > > Verne Koester > Brenner Sharp > Bobby > Satallino > Chris Moon > Mike Cohen > Mickey Losardo > Bob Kane > Frank Del Giudice > Doc Villa > Dennis Bodary (no flights) > > FAI: > > Andrew Jesky > David Snow > Mark Atwood > Colin Chariandy > > Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and > braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, > his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday > hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, > Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who > helped out with the food and scoring. > > Hope to see you again next year. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From f3aflyer7 at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 13:37:23 2009 From: f3aflyer7 at gmail.com (Scott Pavlock) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:37:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <352546.52823.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <352546.52823.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <72f9ee7c0908091437o2e8098a9lafde053355a32a84@mail.gmail.com> Thanks a bunch for everyone's hospitality! My dad and I and our guests had a wonderful time and wish everyone a great rest of the season. I really miss flying with everyone and hopefully I can join you again as soon as possible! Everyone has such grade A personalities and it's always a pleasure to catch up after so long. Scott Pavlock On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 4:31 PM, mike mueller wrote: > I wish I could have been there but at least I got to fly with Jerry Budd > today at my field. Man those winds were tough today! Almost as bad as the > Tri Village contest in late June. > I got all the updates from your contest from my many friends. > Andrew,Mickey wanted to know why the winds calmed down everytime you flew? > I think we know the answer to that. > Good luck in Portugal have a blast and take care on the P's. Mike Mueller > > --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Andrew Jesky wrote: > > > From: Andrew Jesky > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who > made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 4:17 PM > > Dennis, > > It's always great fun when your around. Hope > > to see you guys at the districts. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 9, 2009, at 5:10 PM, "Dennis Bodary" > > > > wrote: > > > > I had a good time even > > though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. > > > > --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane > > wrote: > > > > > > From: Bob Kane > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to > > everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics > > contest a success > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, > > "D4" , > > "D5" > > Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM > > > > > > I just returned home from the Weak > > Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady > > rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain > > did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the > > runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but > > stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low > > 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for > > some challenging conditions. > > > > We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two > > more rounds today. Results: > > > > Sportsman: > > > > Bruce Herider (No flights) > > Tim Jesky (No flights) > > > > Intermediate: > > > > Ron Hansen > > Jim Gruntkowski > > Mike Gaishin > > Gary Stephens > > Loren Noyes > > David Cook > > > > Advanced: > > > > Bill Pritchett > > Bob Condra > > Ken Alexander > > Anthony Abdullah > > Mike Darr > > Mike Murphy > > Ethan Chariandy > > Charles Williams (no flights) > > > > Masters: > > > > Verne Koester > > Brenner Sharp > > Bobby > > Satallino > > Chris Moon > > Mike Cohen > > Mickey Losardo > > Bob Kane > > Frank Del Giudice > > Doc Villa > > Dennis Bodary (no flights) > > > > FAI: > > > > Andrew Jesky > > David Snow > > Mark Atwood > > Colin Chariandy > > > > Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and > > braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, > > his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday > > hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, > > Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who > > helped out with the food and scoring. > > > > Hope to see you again next year. > > > > Bob Kane > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sun Aug 9 13:48:46 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:48:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB82D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I second (or as I see the email streaming in, 3rd and 4th) all the thank you's to the weak signals club for this contest. Amazing facility, and of course a great event. SERIOUS tail wind on the way back to cleveland. I'm guessing the Chicago crowd driving straight into it got slightly poorer mileage than I did. Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at the D4 champs in Cinci! Oh, and a pleasure to meet Colin Chariandy and his son Ethan from Canada who made the trip for their first US contest. Hope to see you both again! -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ; D4 ; D5 Sent: Sun Aug 09 17:02:02 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Sun Aug 9 13:56:21 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 21:56:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB82D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <000601ca193d$080bf020$0200a8c0@kencopepere> I can certainly see I missed another great contest...I miss flying with you guys up there in D4, even though I've made some great new friends down here. Best of luck to all of you at the Champs...hopefully I'll see you all again in the near future!! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success >I second (or as I see the email streaming in, 3rd and 4th) all the thank >you's to the weak signals club for this contest. Amazing facility, and of >course a great event. > > SERIOUS tail wind on the way back to cleveland. I'm guessing the Chicago > crowd driving straight into it got slightly poorer mileage than I did. > > Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at the D4 champs > in Cinci! > > Oh, and a pleasure to meet Colin Chariandy and his son Ethan from Canada > who made the trip for their first US contest. Hope to see you both again! > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ; > D4 ; D5 > Sent: Sun Aug 09 17:02:02 2009 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made > the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about > contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately > once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the > runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all > day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season > in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. > > We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds > today. Results: > > Sportsman: > > Bruce Herider (No flights) > Tim Jesky (No flights) > > Intermediate: > > Ron Hansen > Jim Gruntkowski > Mike Gaishin > Gary Stephens > Loren Noyes > David Cook > > Advanced: > > Bill Pritchett > Bob Condra > Ken Alexander > Anthony Abdullah > Mike Darr > Mike Murphy > Ethan Chariandy > Charles Williams (no flights) > > Masters: > > Verne Koester > Brenner Sharp > Bobby Satallino > Chris Moon > Mike Cohen > Mickey Losardo > Bob Kane > Frank Del Giudice > Doc Villa > Dennis Bodary (no flights) > > FAI: > > Andrew Jesky > David Snow > Mark Atwood > Colin Chariandy > > Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the > weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for > the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, > Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who > helped out with the food and scoring. > > Hope to see you again next year. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From d_bodary at yahoo.com Sun Aug 9 14:30:07 2009 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com (Dennis Bodary) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:30:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <000601ca193d$080bf020$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <725821.32725.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I hear you were in town for awhile, not to long ago. Hopefully next time will be under better circumstances. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Ken Thompson wrote: From: Ken Thompson Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 6:02 PM I can certainly see I missed another great contest...I miss flying with you guys up there in D4, even though I've made some great new friends down here. Best of luck to all of you at the Champs...hopefully I'll see you all again in the near future!! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: ; ; Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > I second (or as I see the email streaming in, 3rd and 4th) all the thank you's to the weak signals club for this contest. Amazing facility, and of course a great event. > > SERIOUS tail wind on the way back to cleveland.? I'm guessing the Chicago crowd driving straight into it got slightly poorer mileage than I did. > > Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at the D4 champs in Cinci! > > Oh, and a pleasure to meet Colin Chariandy and his son Ethan from Canada who made the trip for their first US contest.? Hope to see you both again! > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ; D4 ; D5 > Sent: Sun Aug 09 17:02:02 2009 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. > > We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: > > Sportsman: > > Bruce Herider (No flights) > Tim Jesky (No flights) > > Intermediate: > > Ron Hansen > Jim Gruntkowski > Mike Gaishin > Gary Stephens > Loren Noyes > David Cook > > Advanced: > > Bill Pritchett > Bob Condra > Ken Alexander > Anthony Abdullah > Mike Darr > Mike Murphy > Ethan Chariandy > Charles Williams (no flights) > > Masters: > > Verne Koester > Brenner Sharp > Bobby Satallino > Chris Moon > Mike Cohen > Mickey Losardo > Bob Kane > Frank Del Giudice > Doc Villa > Dennis Bodary (no flights) > > FAI: > > Andrew Jesky > David Snow > Mark Atwood > Colin Chariandy > > Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. > > Hope to see you again next year. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Sun Aug 9 14:55:30 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 22:55:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano/US F3D Team In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8094E7CF062448DBA808514EFCFF492A@UncleJasPC> BTW: 4th was Travis Flynn and 5th was Gary Freeman Jr (first time team member)... not bad to have the Team go 2, (3), 4 and 5. I'm lucky enough to have Randy and Gary at my field and Gary was the one who got me racing in the mid 90's. Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 2:11 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Congrats to our very own Richard Verano! Congratulations to Rich and the US F3D team! Great showing at the 2009 World Pylon Championships in Germany. Now on to Portugal. Overall 1st : Robbert van den Bosch NED 2nd : Richard Verano USA 3rd : Randy Bridge USA Team 1st: USA 2nd: Netherlands 3rd: Germany JLK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steveandlaurel at valornet.com Sun Aug 9 15:49:18 2009 From: steveandlaurel at valornet.com (Steve Ford) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 23:49:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NEW CONTEST (sort of) Message-ID: Due to Springfield, MO losing their contest this year, the American Turf Flyers club in Tulsa/Broken Arrow OK will be hosting the Springfield/Tulsa Pattern Contest. Dates - September 12 & 13th. Field open for practice on the 11th at noon. All classes will be flown. FAI will fly P11 both days. Entry fee - $25 Lunch and drinks provided both days.. Flyer will be posted soon at www.americanturfflyers.com Thanks, Steve Ford -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.lavey at cox.net Sun Aug 9 16:05:15 2009 From: bob.lavey at cox.net (Bob Lavey) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 00:05:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NEW CONTEST (sort of) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82742871A9A5492B8DA6AD694813B081@LAVEYFAMILYXP> Yay! Thanks for posting, Steve. I'm glad you guys were able to pick this up this year, and hopefully Springfield will get their troubles worked out by next near. Thanks, Bob _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Steve Ford Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:49 PM To: NSRCS Board Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] NEW CONTEST (sort of) Due to Springfield, MO losing their contest this year, the American Turf Flyers club in Tulsa/Broken Arrow OK will be hosting the Springfield/Tulsa Pattern Contest. Dates - September 12 & 13th. Field open for practice on the 11th at noon. All classes will be flown. FAI will fly P11 both days. Entry fee - $25 Lunch and drinks provided both days.. Flyer will be posted soon at www.americanturfflyers.com Thanks, Steve Ford -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 17:11:55 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:11:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) References: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC><679279.98061.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <247B31AD08604DFDAA4FA459AA4AA626@LLDPC> Message-ID: <95F35C2B00FC4B4D99B00CD95655E77D@LLDPC> Got to the flying field and charged everything up Started the 140RX and tons of power running very smooth. Lisa took the Temptation out to the runway, one more run up to clear the engine Take off was beautiful, very smooth at ? throttle and very nice climb out to about 20? and bank to the left for a easy 180 degree turn down wind Leveled wings and was about 100? and added power No power, now a glider .it was a tight rope staying just above stall to land easy in the tall weeds I observed the tip stall about 2 feet above earth, and yep it?s a composite fuse you know where it folded. That was the only damage Repairable to some, not sure I want the task I have no idea why the engine quit and will probably never know at this point As for my weekend, this was the second plane in two days that were sacrificed to the RC Plane Gods if you will Lisa?s trainer met it?s demise yesterday while my dad was on the buddy box. He got into trouble and I took back control at about 50? with no problem. Well until I pulled elevator to gain altitude. I observed a narrow blue covering that I couldn?t place right before she headed to earth at full throttle. My thumbs were in the low left corner on the right stick and full up on the left stick. I held it in that position to verify what happened The blue line was the only blue on the plane The leading edge of the wing. Normally not a bad observation if the plane is coming toward you, however, it was going away from me. The wing left the plane when I pulled elevator The wing first lifted on the left appearing to bank sharp to the right What I saw verified my final stick positions I?ve only lost one other plane since 85? I guess we all pay up sometime or another Not sure what I will do from here, but we will not be making Quincy, OH Larry Diamond -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerry at buddengineering.com Sun Aug 9 17:33:28 2009 From: jerry at buddengineering.com (Budd Engineering) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:33:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <352546.52823.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <352546.52823.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <808AE438-0C77-4A9B-85AA-F43BAB2F0E2D@buddengineering.com> Congrats to all the winners at the Weak Signals Contest, it sounds like a great contest, hopefully I'll be able to fly there someday! Thanks to Mike for staying home in Chicago this weekend and letting me fly his Integral in the very Nats Finals-like winds today. I don't think I scared him too badly, although I did get closer to the trees on the left end of the field during landing than either of us expected! It's always fun to fly at a new field, and spend time talking "pattern" with old and new friends. Oh, and the oversize burger at the Assembly Restaurant afterwards was the "bomb"! Thanks again Mike, I had a great time. Jerry Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2009, at 4:31 PM, mike mueller wrote: > I wish I could have been there but at least I got to fly with Jerry > Budd today at my field. Man those winds were tough today! Almost as > bad as the Tri Village contest in late June. > I got all the updates from your contest from my many friends. > Andrew,Mickey wanted to know why the winds calmed down everytime you > flew? I think we know the answer to that. > Good luck in Portugal have a blast and take care on the P's. Mike > Mueller From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Sun Aug 9 17:51:30 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 01:51:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) References: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC><679279.98061.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com><247B31AD08604DFDAA4FA459AA4AA626@LLDPC> <95F35C2B00FC4B4D99B00CD95655E77D@LLDPC> Message-ID: <001101ca195d$edd91400$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Very sorry to hear about your bird...I too had an issue with my Genesis...my motor fried at a very bad spot...couldn't quite make it back to the good part of the runway, had to set it down in the tall weeds...folded gear plate and just noticed a wrinkle in the right side of the fuse at the trailing edge of the wing position...it's repaired somewhat, I'll see if it makes it throught the first 1 1/2 snap... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa n Larry To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) Got to the flying field and charged everything up. Started the 140RX and tons of power running very smooth. Lisa took the Temptation out to the runway, one more run up to clear the engine. Take off was beautiful, very smooth at ? throttle and very nice climb out to about 20' and bank to the left for a easy 180 degree turn down wind. Leveled wings and was about 100' and added power.No power, now a glider..it was a tight rope staying just above stall to land easy in the tall weeds. I observed the tip stall about 2 feet above earth, and yep it's a composite fuse.you know where it folded. That was the only damage.Repairable to some, not sure I want the task. I have no idea why the engine quit and will probably never know at this point. As for my weekend, this was the second plane in two days that were sacrificed to the RC Plane Gods if you will.Lisa's trainer met it's demise yesterday while my dad was on the buddy box. He got into trouble and I took back control at about 50' with no problem. Well until I pulled elevator to gain altitude. I observed a narrow blue covering that I couldn't place right before she headed to earth at full throttle. My thumbs were in the low left corner on the right stick and full up on the left stick. I held it in that position to verify what happened. The blue line was the only blue on the plane.The leading edge of the wing. Normally not a bad observation if the plane is coming toward you, however, it was going away from me. The wing left the plane when I pulled elevator.The wing first lifted on the left appearing to bank sharp to the right.What I saw verified my final stick positions. I've only lost one other plane since 85'.I guess we all pay up sometime or another. Not sure what I will do from here, but we will not be making Quincy, OH. Larry Diamond ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Sun Aug 9 18:18:44 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:18:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) In-Reply-To: <001101ca195d$edd91400$0200a8c0@kencopepere> References: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC><679279.98061.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com><247B31AD08604DFDAA4FA459AA4AA626@LLDPC><95F35C2B00FC4B4D99B00CD95655E77D@LLDPC> <001101ca195d$edd91400$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <8649BFD252164403BEE68023BC62DEBF@LLDPC> ?I'll see if it makes it through the first 1 1/2 snap...? I sure hope it holds together, it will become very interesting fast Yep, it folded right behind the wing. It is still together, but buckled in on the side I believe I can get it set in a jig then cut out any wrinkle that keeps it from pulling straight and put a dummy plate on the outside. I need to get a cross hair laser that Dean Funk had on his build thread. Then I can start with thin coat of micro-balloons and epoxy mix to make the outside sandable. After that, epoxy in CF cloth on the inside for strength and an attempt to keep it light Do this wherever it?s wrinkled and I think I can make it flyable again It will probably cost me a few ounces, but I might be able to keep it under 11 pounds Probably a good project for me to get my building skills up before putting together a BMVF3 I?ll benefit from learning to paint as well LOL Thanks Ken, there is a bright side to every problem My biggest challenge is being a perfectionist. How do I keep everything within 1/32nd of an inch now ? Vbg Larry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ken Thompson Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) Very sorry to hear about your bird...I too had an issue with my Genesis...my motor fried at a very bad spot...couldn't quite make it back to the good part of the runway, had to set it down in the tall weeds...folded gear plate and just noticed a wrinkle in the right side of the fuse at the trailing edge of the wing position...it's repaired somewhat, I'll see if it makes it throught the first 1 1/2 snap... Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Lisa n Larry To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:11 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) Got to the flying field and charged everything up Started the 140RX and tons of power running very smooth. Lisa took the Temptation out to the runway, one more run up to clear the engine Take off was beautiful, very smooth at ? throttle and very nice climb out to about 20? and bank to the left for a easy 180 degree turn down wind Leveled wings and was about 100? and added power No power, now a glider .it was a tight rope staying just above stall to land easy in the tall weeds I observed the tip stall about 2 feet above earth, and yep it?s a composite fuse you know where it folded. That was the only damage Repairable to some, not sure I want the task I have no idea why the engine quit and will probably never know at this point As for my weekend, this was the second plane in two days that were sacrificed to the RC Plane Gods if you will Lisa?s trainer met it?s demise yesterday while my dad was on the buddy box. He got into trouble and I took back control at about 50? with no problem. Well until I pulled elevator to gain altitude. I observed a narrow blue covering that I couldn?t place right before she headed to earth at full throttle. My thumbs were in the low left corner on the right stick and full up on the left stick. I held it in that position to verify what happened The blue line was the only blue on the plane The leading edge of the wing. Normally not a bad observation if the plane is coming toward you, however, it was going away from me. The wing left the plane when I pulled elevator The wing first lifted on the left appearing to bank sharp to the right What I saw verified my final stick positions I?ve only lost one other plane since 85? I guess we all pay up sometime or another Not sure what I will do from here, but we will not be making Quincy, OH Larry Diamond _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerry at buddengineering.com Sun Aug 9 18:35:59 2009 From: jerry at buddengineering.com (Budd Engineering) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:35:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) In-Reply-To: <8649BFD252164403BEE68023BC62DEBF@LLDPC> References: <8F33746908444C4AB409E07B788374C2@LLDPC><679279.98061.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com><247B31AD08604DFDAA4FA459AA4AA626@LLDPC><95F35C2B00FC4B4D99B00CD95655E77D@LLDPC> <001101ca195d$edd91400$0200a8c0@kencopepere> <8649BFD252164403BEE68023BC62DEBF@LLDPC> Message-ID: FWIW, a horizontal doubler plate made from either ~1/4" soft balsa, or a built up balsa frame (similar to the "ladder" that Dick Hansen used to put into his Elan's and E=MC2's) installed at the location of the creased section of the fuselage would be stronger and lighter than a glass layup that adds little to the skins structural modulus. Just my suggestion based on having made that type of repair before. Jerry Sent from my iPhone On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:18 PM, "Lisa n Larry" wrote: > ?I'll see if it makes it through the first 1 1/2 snap...? > > I sure hope it holds together, it will become very interesting fast? > > Yep, it folded right behind the wing. It is still together, but > buckled in on the side? > > I believe I can get it set in a jig then cut out any wrinkle that > keeps it from pulling straight and put a dummy plate on the outside. > I need to get a cross hair laser that Dean Funk had on his build > thread. Then I can start with thin coat of micro-balloons and epoxy > mix to make the outside sandable. After that, epoxy in CF cloth on > the inside for strength and an attempt to keep it light?Do this wher > ever it?s wrinkled and I think I can make it flyable again?It > will probably cost me a few ounces, but I might be able to keep it u > nder 11 pounds? > > Probably a good project for me to get my building skills up before > putting together a BMVF3?I?ll benefit from learning to paint as > well?LOL > > Thanks Ken, there is a bright side to every problem?My biggest chall > enge is being a perfectionist. How do I keep everything within 1/32n > d of an inch now?? Vbg > > Larry > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ken Thompson > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) > > Very sorry to hear about your bird...I too had an issue with my > Genesis...my motor fried at a very bad spot...couldn't quite make it > back to the good part of the runway, had to set it down in the tall > weeds...folded gear plate and just noticed a wrinkle in the right > side of the fuse at the trailing edge of the wing position...it's > repaired somewhat, I'll see if it makes it throught the first 1 1/2 > snap... > > Ken > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lisa n Larry > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:11 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] OS 140RX Need Help (Final update) > > Got to the flying field and charged everything up? > > Started the 140RX and tons of power running very smooth. Lisa took > the Temptation out to the runway, one more run up to clear the engin > e? > > Take off was beautiful, very smooth at ? throttle and very nice clim > b out to about 20? and bank to the left for a easy 180 degree turn d > own wind? > > Leveled wings and was about 100? and added power?No power, now a > glider?.it was a tight rope staying just above stall to land easy in > the tall weeds? > > I observed the tip stall about 2 feet above earth, and yep it?s a co > mposite fuse?you know where it folded. That was the only damage? > Repairable to some, not sure I want the task? > > I have no idea why the engine quit and will probably never know at > this point? > > As for my weekend, this was the second plane in two days that were > sacrificed to the RC Plane Gods if you will?Lisa?s trainer met > it?s demise yesterday while my dad was on the buddy box. He got into > trouble and I took back control at about 50? with no problem. Well > until I pulled elevator to gain altitude. I observed a narrow blue c > overing that I couldn?t place right before she headed to earth at fu > ll throttle. My thumbs were in the low left corner on the right stic > k and full up on the left stick. I held it in that position to verif > y what happened? > > The blue line was the only blue on the plane?The leading edge of the > wing. Normally not a bad observation if the plane is coming toward > you, however, it was going away from me. The wing left the plane whe > n I pulled elevator?The wing first lifted on the left appearing to b > ank sharp to the right?What I saw verified my final stick position > s? > > I?ve only lost one other plane since 85??I guess we all pay up > sometime or another? > > Not sure what I will do from here, but we will not be making Quincy, > OH? > > Larry Diamond > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Sun Aug 9 18:36:43 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:36:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB82D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <99953.40665.qm@web112618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Indeed a super contest and I think a great intro to highly competitive pattern in the US for Ethan and I. We'll definately bookmark this one. ? Mark, the pleasure was all ours...and we are particularly appreciative of the warm welcome from Tim Jesky and his entire family, Bob Kane and helpers, the other competitors and the very colourful Chicago group. ? Of course Andrew's flying was the icing on the cake!! ? Hope to hook again... Best Regards Colin. ? ? ? --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" , "'dist4 at nsrca.org'" , "'dist5 at nsrca.org'" Received: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:42 PM I second (or as I see the email streaming in, 3rd and 4th) all the thank you's to the weak signals club for this contest. Amazing facility, and of course a great event. SERIOUS tail wind on the way back to cleveland.? I'm guessing the Chicago crowd driving straight into it got slightly poorer mileage than I did. Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at the D4 champs in Cinci! Oh, and a pleasure to meet Colin Chariandy and his son Ethan from Canada who made the trip for their first US contest.? Hope to see you both again! -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ; D4 ; D5 Sent: Sun Aug 09 17:02:02 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the??? Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now http://ca.toolbar.yahoo.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sun Aug 9 19:37:32 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 03:37:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Ballistic Patten Contest Message-ID: I just got back from the Ballistic Pattern Association contest at the Rocket City Radio Controllers field in Huntsville, AL and wanted to tell everyone that it was a great weekend. All the old time 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s airplanes ruled the skies over Huntsville's old municipal airport. Winds were light and barely variable, but the temperatures were hot and then some. Seeing Art Azlin piloting a Norm Page Mach I was a treat. I can't remember an airplane duplication among the 18 competitors, which included a Compensator, Daddy Rabbit, Aurora, Phoenix 5, Intruder, Dash 5, Sky Lark, Art's Mach I and several others whose names escape me. Jon Lowe loaned a Vanquish to Houston Schweitzer and he had a ball. Thanks to Gary Courtney (D-3 VP) for hosting us and providing a great "escape to the past". Ron Van Putte From jaqfly at prodigy.net Sun Aug 9 20:10:56 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:10:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D1 Pattern in Paradise In-Reply-To: <725821.32725.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <725821.32725.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <250493.74897.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Jusat one week to the annual Pattern in Paradise. The weather is looking great, which will be a first for a D1 contest this season. Pilots get your airplanes ready Ladies get your hats ready for our "Ladies Only" high tea at 2:00 ? Jim Quinn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burtona at atmc.net Sun Aug 9 20:48:19 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 04:48:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest - Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <0D3307F724AA420285C4F7E35B4B22BC@ScottPC> References: <0D3307F724AA420285C4F7E35B4B22BC@ScottPC> Message-ID: <01a001ca1975$ceaf8d80$6c0ea880$@net> I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rickwallace45 at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 02:12:38 2009 From: rickwallace45 at gmail.com (richard wallace) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:12:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D1 Pattern in Paradise In-Reply-To: <250493.74897.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <725821.32725.qm@web51705.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <250493.74897.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, Jim - thanks for the reminder! don't think I'll be making the contest this year - life is getting in the way, this time in the form of (probably) a new puppy, visit from youngest son, and a two week trip to TX the next morning... Have a great one! Rick On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 12:10 AM, Jim Quinn wrote: > Jusat one week to the annual Pattern in Paradise. The weather is looking > great, which will be a first for a D1 contest this season. > > Pilots get your airplanes ready > > Ladies get your hats ready for our "Ladies Only" high tea at 2:00 > > > > Jim Quinn > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From precisionaero at hotmail.com Mon Aug 10 03:07:29 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:07:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <99953.40665.qm@web112618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB82D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <99953.40665.qm@web112618.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, great contest! In between all the eating, we did get some flying in. It was good to get out there and see everyone again. This was the first contest I could get to, and I am looking forward to the next few as well. I could have done without the mid-air though. Brio #1 is a goner, but the radio system, except for the battery, seems OK as does the engine. I will check the engine thoroughly, mount everything in the backup Eclipse and put everything through its paces. Brio #2 did look lonely on the table though. Hmmm....time to tell my wife how much I really love her. She always knows what that means...... Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:36:42 -0700 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Indeed a super contest and I think a great intro to highly competitive pattern in the US for Ethan and I. We'll definately bookmark this one. Mark, the pleasure was all ours...and we are particularly appreciative of the warm welcome from Tim Jesky and his entire family, Bob Kane and helpers, the other competitors and the very colourful Chicago group. Of course Andrew's flying was the icing on the cake!! Hope to hook again... Best Regards Colin. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" , "'dist4 at nsrca.org'" , "'dist5 at nsrca.org'" Received: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:42 PM I second (or as I see the email streaming in, 3rd and 4th) all the thank you's to the weak signals club for this contest. Amazing facility, and of course a great event. SERIOUS tail wind on the way back to cleveland. I'm guessing the Chicago crowd driving straight into it got slightly poorer mileage than I did. Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at the D4 champs in Cinci! Oh, and a pleasure to meet Colin Chariandy and his son Ethan from Canada who made the trip for their first US contest. Hope to see you both again! -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ; D4 ; D5 Sent: Sun Aug 09 17:02:02 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcpilot at wowway.com Mon Aug 10 03:43:46 2009 From: rcpilot at wowway.com (Ron Hansen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:43:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomade the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Hmmm....time to tell my wife how much I really love her. She always knows what that means......" I'm glad that I'm not the only one who uses that ploy. I had a mid air about 3 years ago so I feel your pain. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 7:07 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomade the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Yes, great contest! In between all the eating, we did get some flying in. It was good to get out there and see everyone again. This was the first contest I could get to, and I am looking forward to the next few as well. I could have done without the mid-air though. Brio #1 is a goner, but the radio system, except for the battery, seems OK as does the engine. I will check the engine thoroughly, mount everything in the backup Eclipse and put everything through its paces. Brio #2 did look lonely on the table though. Hmmm....time to tell my wife how much I really love her. She always knows what that means...... _____ Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 19:36:42 -0700 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Indeed a super contest and I think a great intro to highly competitive pattern in the US for Ethan and I. We'll definately bookmark this one. Mark, the pleasure was all ours...and we are particularly appreciative of the warm welcome from Tim Jesky and his entire family, Bob Kane and helpers, the other competitors and the very colourful Chicago group. Of course Andrew's flying was the icing on the cake!! Hope to hook again... Best Regards Colin. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org'" , "'dist4 at nsrca.org'" , "'dist5 at nsrca.org'" Received: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:42 PM I second (or as I see the email streaming in, 3rd and 4th) all the thank you's to the weak signals club for this contest. Amazing facility, and of course a great event. SERIOUS tail wind on the way back to cleveland. I'm guessing the Chicago crowd driving straight into it got slightly poorer mileage than I did. Thanks again, and I'm looking forward to seeing everyone at the D4 champs in Cinci! Oh, and a pleasure to meet Colin Chariandy and his son Ethan from Canada who made the trip for their first US contest. Hope to see you both again! -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >; D4 >; D5 > Sent: Sun Aug 09 17:02:02 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers. _____ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing now. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4134 (20090605) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billpritch at yahoo.com Mon Aug 10 05:52:04 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:52:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <976655.93258.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <976655.93258.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <363099.26783.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Dittos on all the kudos to the Jesky family, Mr. Kane, all the girls that pitched in to help - and, let's not forget the club itself for allowing us the weekend! Not sure how many club members lost a lot of air time this particular weekend though..... ha! As has always been my experience, it's simply great fun to spend time with pattern guys, meet new ones, and feel that real friendships exist here. I also want to point out how great it is to be around Andrew. Here's a guy that just loves to fly RC and it's very contagious...... What a wonderful young man to be representing our nation! Pritch Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 ; D5 Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:02:02 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Mon Aug 10 05:58:20 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:58:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <01a001ca1975$ceaf8d80$6c0ea880$@net> References: <0D3307F724AA420285C4F7E35B4B22BC@ScottPC> <01a001ca1975$ceaf8d80$6c0ea880$@net> Message-ID: <707CB239634140E7B076A4FF3AFD3485@Tony> The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day. I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burtona at atmc.net Mon Aug 10 06:24:45 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:24:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <707CB239634140E7B076A4FF3AFD3485@Tony> References: <0D3307F724AA420285C4F7E35B4B22BC@ScottPC> <01a001ca1975$ceaf8d80$6c0ea880$@net> <707CB239634140E7B076A4FF3AFD3485@Tony> Message-ID: <003d01ca19c6$4dee91e0$e9cbb5a0$@net> Thanks Tony, That's what I thought. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:58 AM To: 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jon Lowe' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day. I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Mon Aug 10 07:03:31 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (verne at twmi.rr.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:03:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <363099.26783.qm@web65104.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090810150329.U2UGD.456299.root@hrndva-web15-z01> It even got windier after everyone left. Andrew and I stayed so he could practice a couple more unknowns in preparation for the World's. Sure wish I could figure out how he makes 30 mph winds look like 5 mph! Anyway, that was pretty much our last chance for practice before Portugal because this week will be filled with Papa Jesky crating Andrew's planes up for the flight out on Friday. BTW, the heavy wind we flew in on Sunday was just a prelude to the storms that came through Sunday night. Something like 60,000 people lost power including me. I'm on generator power as I write this. All in all, it was a great contest and I hope everyone had as much fun as me! Verne ---- Bill Pritchett wrote: > Dittos on all the kudos to the Jesky family, Mr. Kane, all the girls that pitched in to help - and, let's not forget the club itself for allowing us the weekend! Not sure how many club members lost a lot of air time this particular weekend though..... ha! > As has always been my experience, it's simply great fun to spend time with pattern guys, meet new ones, and feel that real friendships exist here. I also want to point out how great it is to be around Andrew. Here's a guy that just loves to fly RC and it's very contagious...... What a wonderful young man to be representing our nation! > Pritch > > Bill Pritchett > Souled Out Entertainment > www.souledoutentertainment.biz > 765-744-9322 > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Kane > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 ; D5 > Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:02:02 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. > > We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: > > Sportsman: > > Bruce Herider (No flights) > Tim Jesky (No flights) > > Intermediate: > > Ron Hansen > Jim Gruntkowski > Mike Gaishin > Gary Stephens > Loren Noyes > David Cook > > Advanced: > > Bill Pritchett > Bob Condra > Ken Alexander > Anthony Abdullah > Mike Darr > Mike Murphy > Ethan Chariandy > Charles Williams (no flights) > > Masters: > > Verne Koester > Brenner Sharp > Bobby Satallino > Chris Moon > Mike Cohen > Mickey Losardo > Bob Kane > Frank Del Giudice > Doc Villa > Dennis Bodary (no flights) > > FAI: > > Andrew Jesky > David Snow > Mark Atwood > Colin Chariandy > > Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. > > Hope to see you again next year. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From frankjuliei at comcast.net Mon Aug 10 07:10:20 2009 From: frankjuliei at comcast.net (frank) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:10:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FOCUS 2 for sale Message-ID: <626D236647374E51BABD7BE8275E8E8B@FMILaptop> I have a very nice, great flying FOCUS 2 available .It is currently on RCU with detailed photos. It was custom covered and is available as an airframe only for $595 or RTF( contact me @908-832-6187 for price) with a OS 160/ Mueller header/ES Carbon Pipe/Bolly Gear, Futaba/JR Digitals, MK hardware, etc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 10 07:54:02 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:54:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <949559.23015.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <949559.23015.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <62884.47192.qm@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much?better he is with my airplane than I will ever be.? Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. I hope to see you all again soon. ________________________________ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: >From: Bob Kane >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" >Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM > > >I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. > >We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: > >Sportsman: > >Bruce Herider (No flights) >Tim Jesky (No flights) > >Intermediate: > >Ron Hansen >Jim Gruntkowski >Mike Gaishin >Gary Stephens >Loren Noyes >David Cook > >Advanced: > >Bill Pritchett >Bob Condra >Ken Alexander >Anthony Abdullah >Mike Darr >Mike Murphy >Ethan Chariandy >Charles Williams (no flights) > >Masters: > >Verne Koester >Brenner Sharp >Bobby Satallino >Chris Moon >Mike Cohen >Mickey Losardo >Bob Kane >Frank Del Giudice >Doc Villa >Dennis Bodary (no flights) > >FAI: > >Andrew Jesky >David Snow >Mark Atwood >Colin Chariandy > >Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. > >Hope to see you again next year. > >Bob Kane >getterflash at yahoo.com > > > >? ? ? >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Mon Aug 10 09:36:25 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 17:36:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FOCUS 2 for sale In-Reply-To: <626D236647374E51BABD7BE8275E8E8B@FMILaptop> References: <626D236647374E51BABD7BE8275E8E8B@FMILaptop> Message-ID: Hey guys, this Focus is Cherry! It does fly very well and is a steal at that price. Frank builds great and maintains all his equipment very well. Ed From: frankjuliei at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:10:33 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FOCUS 2 for sale I have a very nice, great flying FOCUS 2 available .It is currently on RCU with detailed photos. It was custom covered and is available as an airframe only for $595 or RTF( contact me @908-832-6187 for price) with a OS 160/ Mueller header/ES Carbon Pipe/Bolly Gear, Futaba/JR Digitals, MK hardware, etc. _________________________________________________________________ Get your vacation photos on your phone! http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d_bodary at yahoo.com Mon Aug 10 10:25:51 2009 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com (Dennis Bodary) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:25:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <62884.47192.qm@web82105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1143.58063.qm@web51701.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. ? Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. ? Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much?better he is with my airplane than I will ever be.? ? Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. ? I hope to see you all again soon. From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 10 10:32:47 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:32:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success References: <20090810150329.U2UGD.456299.root@hrndva-web15-z01> Message-ID: Verne: While it goes without saying, I'm going to say it anyway. I know we wish all of you folks, as well as our entire team the best of luck; I can't imagine a more deserving group than you folks. And, I am sorry to hear that you lost power. It frequently happens to me, also. Of course, while I may lose power, the electricity at my house is generally just fine! Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "D4" ; "General pattern discussion" ; "D5" Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > It even got windier after everyone left. Andrew and I stayed so he could > practice a couple more unknowns in preparation for the World's. Sure wish > I could figure out how he makes 30 mph winds look like 5 mph! Anyway, that > was pretty much our last chance for practice before Portugal because this > week will be filled with Papa Jesky crating Andrew's planes up for the > flight out on Friday. BTW, the heavy wind we flew in on Sunday was just a > prelude to the storms that came through Sunday night. Something like > 60,000 people lost power including me. I'm on generator power as I write > this. All in all, it was a great contest and I hope everyone had as much > fun as me! > > Verne > > > ---- Bill Pritchett wrote: >> Dittos on all the kudos to the Jesky family, Mr. Kane, all the girls that >> pitched in to help - and, let's not forget the club itself for allowing >> us the weekend! Not sure how many club members lost a lot of air time >> this particular weekend though..... ha! >> As has always been my experience, it's simply great fun to spend time >> with pattern guys, meet new ones, and feel that real friendships exist >> here. I also want to point out how great it is to be around Andrew. >> Here's a guy that just loves to fly RC and it's very contagious...... >> What a wonderful young man to be representing our nation! >> Pritch >> >> Bill Pritchett >> Souled Out Entertainment >> www.souledoutentertainment.biz >> 765-744-9322 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Bob Kane >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 ; D5 >> >> Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:02:02 PM >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made >> the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success >> >> I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about >> contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately >> once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the >> runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds >> all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this >> season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. >> >> We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds >> today. Results: >> >> Sportsman: >> >> Bruce Herider (No flights) >> Tim Jesky (No flights) >> >> Intermediate: >> >> Ron Hansen >> Jim Gruntkowski >> Mike Gaishin >> Gary Stephens >> Loren Noyes >> David Cook >> >> Advanced: >> >> Bill Pritchett >> Bob Condra >> Ken Alexander >> Anthony Abdullah >> Mike Darr >> Mike Murphy >> Ethan Chariandy >> Charles Williams (no flights) >> >> Masters: >> >> Verne Koester >> Brenner Sharp >> Bobby Satallino >> Chris Moon >> Mike Cohen >> Mickey Losardo >> Bob Kane >> Frank Del Giudice >> Doc Villa >> Dennis Bodary (no flights) >> >> FAI: >> >> Andrew Jesky >> David Snow >> Mark Atwood >> Colin Chariandy >> >> Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the >> weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for >> the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, >> Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed >> who helped out with the food and scoring. >> >> Hope to see you again next year. >> >> Bob Kane >> getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Mon Aug 10 10:51:21 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:51:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nomex Gator G202 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <814i7o$42f42e@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Guys - I don't suppose anyone has a kit of the Gator G202 lying around they would like to part with? Thanks, Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Mon Aug 10 17:20:50 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:20:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Message-ID: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Hey all, Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? Maybe an entire fuse? Thanks in advance... Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patternrules at yahoo.com Mon Aug 10 17:25:58 2009 From: patternrules at yahoo.com (Steven Maxwell) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 01:25:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <20090810150329.U2UGD.456299.root@hrndva-web15-z01> Message-ID: <262002.72632.qm@web111316.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> ?Glad that the Chi town gang came to your contest, how long had I tried to get that to happen. I remember when the Signal Seeker had only 7 for one contest and 12 & 14 for others just great to see 30 at a local contest besides Shootout & Championships.?Steve Maxwell --- On Mon, 8/10/09, verne at twmi.rr.com wrote: From: verne at twmi.rr.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "D4" , "General pattern discussion" , "D5" Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:03 AM It even got windier after everyone left. Andrew and I stayed so he could practice a couple more unknowns in preparation for the World's. Sure wish I could figure out how he makes 30 mph winds look like 5 mph! Anyway, that was pretty much our last chance for practice before Portugal because this week will be filled with Papa Jesky crating Andrew's planes up for the flight out on Friday. BTW, the heavy wind we flew in on Sunday was just a prelude to the storms that came through Sunday night. Something like 60,000 people lost power including me. I'm on generator power as I write this. All in all, it was a great contest and I hope everyone had as much fun as me! Verne ---- Bill Pritchett wrote: > Dittos on all the kudos to the Jesky family, Mr. Kane, all the girls that pitched in to help - and, let's not forget the club itself? for allowing us the weekend!? Not sure how many club members lost a lot of air time this particular weekend though..... ha! > As has always been my experience, it's simply great fun to spend time with pattern guys, meet new ones, and feel that real friendships exist here.? I also want to point out how great it is to be around Andrew.? Here's a guy that just loves to fly RC and it's very contagious......???What a wonderful young man to be representing our nation! > Pritch > >? Bill Pritchett > Souled Out Entertainment > www.souledoutentertainment.biz > 765-744-9322 > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Kane > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org; D4 ; D5 > Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:02:02 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. > > We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: > > Sportsman: > > Bruce Herider (No flights) > Tim Jesky (No flights) > > Intermediate: > > Ron Hansen > Jim Gruntkowski > Mike Gaishin > Gary Stephens > Loren Noyes > David Cook > > Advanced: > > Bill Pritchett > Bob Condra > Ken Alexander > Anthony Abdullah > Mike Darr > Mike Murphy > Ethan Chariandy > Charles Williams (no flights) > > Masters: > > Verne Koester > Brenner Sharp > Bobby Satallino > Chris Moon > Mike Cohen > Mickey Losardo > Bob Kane > Frank Del Giudice > Doc Villa > Dennis Bodary (no flights) > > FAI: > > Andrew Jesky > David Snow > Mark Atwood > Colin Chariandy > > Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. > > Hope to see you again next year. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > >? ? ??? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Mon Aug 10 18:01:40 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:01:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for an NMP Header Message-ID: <003601ca1a27$b3348210$199d8630$@net> I broke my header last week (hatori flexible) and before I run out of spares I thought maybe someone would have an NMP header they want to part with..contact me off list..pcosky at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 10 18:50:52 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:50:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <1143.58063.qm@web51701.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <1143.58063.qm@web51701.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> It was a very talented field in advanced. Other than a very frustrating flame out during what was shaping up to be a very solid round I was pretty happy with how I flew. I learned some very valuable lessons about exactly where to stand and how not lining your body up correctly can push every maneuver off center (thank you judges (you know who you are)). Those are the kinds of lessons you only get at a contest. I am more satisfied with a fourth place finish having flown well against strong competition than I would have been finishing first or second against a "lesser" field having flown poorly. All I have wanted my entire pattern career was to be competitive and I am getting there. I felt horrible for Mike Murphy, he was flying the heck out of his new Integral and threatening to take home the gold until he inexplicably went into YS purgatory. Didn't change any settings but all of a sudden couldn't keep the engine running. Two flame outs later and he went from battling for first to suicide watch. He was just about ready to write a check on the spot for an E-power set up. Colin's son was flying very well. To not have flown the US advanced sequence much and to come with a small plane in gale force winds and do so well is impressive. If he sticks with it I will be waving at him as he leapfrogs me on his way to masters. That's enough rambling for now, I gotta go finish the Hacker install in my new Integral! See you in Quincy Anthony ________________________________ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:25:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: >From: Anthony Abdullah >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM > > > > >It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. > >Dennis, >I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. > >Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. > >Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much better he is with my airplane than I will ever be. > >Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. > >I hope to see you all again soon. > > ________________________________ From: Dennis Bodary >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > >I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. > >--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: > > >>From: Bob Kane >>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success >>To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" >>Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM >> >> >>I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. >> >>We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: >> >>Sportsman: >> >>Bruce Herider (No flights) >>Tim Jesky (No flights) >> >>Intermediate: >> >>Ron Hansen >>Jim Gruntkowski >>Mike Gaishin >>Gary Stephens >>Loren Noyes >>David Cook >> >>Advanced: >> >>Bill Pritchett >>Bob Condra >>Ken Alexander >>Anthony Abdullah >>Mike Darr >>Mike Murphy >>Ethan Chariandy >>Charles Williams (no flights) >> >>Masters: >> >>Verne Koester >>Brenner Sharp >>Bobby >> Satallino >>Chris Moon >>Mike Cohen >>Mickey Losardo >>Bob Kane >>Frank Del Giudice >>Doc Villa >>Dennis Bodary (no flights) >> >>FAI: >> >>Andrew Jesky >>David Snow >>Mark Atwood >>Colin Chariandy >> >>Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. >> >>Hope to see you again next year. >> >>Bob Kane >>getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 10 19:06:54 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:06:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl In-Reply-To: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> References: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: I have one E-Genesis, but I am looking for another complete E- Genesis, so I'll have two, just in case. Ron VP On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Ken Thompson wrote: > Hey all, > > Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? > Maybe an entire fuse? > > Thanks in advance... > > Ken > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 10 19:10:26 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:10:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl In-Reply-To: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> References: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <145446.80309.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Craig Buckles has an entire Genesis ARF that he is antsy to part with. Perhaps he will make you a chuckle...... chuckle...... chuckle........ reasonable deal on it. ________________________________ From: Ken Thompson To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26:47 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Hey all, Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? Maybe an entire fuse? Thanks in advance... Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 10 19:11:06 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:11:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for an NMP Header In-Reply-To: <003601ca1a27$b3348210$199d8630$@net> References: <003601ca1a27$b3348210$199d8630$@net> Message-ID: <32213.14197.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Pete, I think I might, I will check and get back to you. Anthony ________________________________ From: Pete Cosky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:01:53 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for an NMP Header I broke my header last week (hatori flexible) and before I run out of spares I thought maybe someone would have an NMP header they want to part with?.contact me off list?.pcosky at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Mon Aug 10 19:21:04 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:21:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl References: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <001001ca1a33$8ab28510$0200a8c0@kencopepere> I know what you mean...I really like the way this thing flies e powered ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Van Putte" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:06 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl >I have one E-Genesis, but I am looking for another complete E- > Genesis, so I'll have two, just in case. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 10, 2009, at 8:26 PM, Ken Thompson wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? >> Maybe an entire fuse? >> >> Thanks in advance... >> >> Ken >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wgalligan at att.net Mon Aug 10 19:38:35 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:38:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl In-Reply-To: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> References: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: Ken, I am in the same situation. I have the wings and stab but need a fuse. Is there a fuse kit out there that will work with the Genesis wings and stab? Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Thompson To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Hey all, Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? Maybe an entire fuse? Thanks in advance... Ken ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verne at twmi.rr.com Mon Aug 10 19:56:31 2009 From: verne at twmi.rr.com (Verne Koester) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 03:56:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl In-Reply-To: References: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <003001ca1a37$b3843570$1a8ca050$@rr.com> CA Models still shows the Genesis as a kit you can buy. I would think that parts are available. Try Net Box Hobbies. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:38 PM To: Ken Thompson; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Ken, I am in the same situation. I have the wings and stab but need a fuse. Is there a fuse kit out there that will work with the Genesis wings and stab? Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Thompson To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Hey all, Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? Maybe an entire fuse? Thanks in advance... Ken _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgalligan at att.net Mon Aug 10 20:10:54 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 04:10:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl In-Reply-To: <003001ca1a37$b3843570$1a8ca050$@rr.com> References: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> <003001ca1a37$b3843570$1a8ca050$@rr.com> Message-ID: I think last time I check it would cost as much for a fuse as it did the whole kit. Maybe things have changed. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Verne Koester To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl CA Models still shows the Genesis as a kit you can buy. I would think that parts are available. Try Net Box Hobbies. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:38 PM To: Ken Thompson; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Ken, I am in the same situation. I have the wings and stab but need a fuse. Is there a fuse kit out there that will work with the Genesis wings and stab? Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Thompson To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Hey all, Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? Maybe an entire fuse? Thanks in advance... Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Tue Aug 11 03:01:06 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:01:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl References: <000601ca1a22$cbd8e540$0200a8c0@kencopepere> <003001ca1a37$b3843570$1a8ca050$@rr.com> Message-ID: <004d01ca1a73$e5433a70$0200a8c0@kencopepere> I'll give them a shot, thanks Verne. Wayne, I had my E motor fry, left me in a position where I couldnt make it back to the field and had to set it down in the tall weeds...weeds grabbed the gear, gear stopped, plane didn't...partially folded the gear plane and put a couple of cracks in the side of the fuse. The plate is repaired and I'm in the process of laying up a repair inside of the fuse. The chin cowl is pretty bad, I can fix it structurally, but the beauty is all gone ;-) I have a couple of contests left this season and I need this plane to last until my Black Magic is done...I really like the way this bird flies. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Verne Koester To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:56 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl CA Models still shows the Genesis as a kit you can buy. I would think that parts are available. Try Net Box Hobbies. Verne From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:38 PM To: Ken Thompson; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Ken, I am in the same situation. I have the wings and stab but need a fuse. Is there a fuse kit out there that will work with the Genesis wings and stab? Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Thompson To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Genesis chin cowl Hey all, Anybody have a Genesis chin cowl they are willing to part with? Maybe an entire fuse? Thanks in advance... Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Tue Aug 11 04:52:22 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:52:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for an NMP Header References: <003601ca1a27$b3348210$199d8630$@net> <32213.14197.qm@web82104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Cool thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Abdullah To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:11 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for an NMP Header Pete, I think I might, I will check and get back to you. Anthony ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Pete Cosky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:01:53 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for an NMP Header I broke my header last week (hatori flexible) and before I run out of spares I thought maybe someone would have an NMP header they want to part with?.contact me off list?.pcosky at comcast.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 11 06:48:17 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:48:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> About those YS flame outs...I was really concerned for my 170 as it have?never been operated in?that kind of?temperature but it ran very well.?I run the HS needle at 2 turns out while turning 18.1X11...I think?others are running smaller loads with the needle in much more. I was 2.25 with 18.1X10 and 2.5 with 17X12. ? Also, I didnt look under Mikes plane, but you need a really big exit hole for adequate cooling. ? Colin. ? --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Monday, August 10, 2009, 10:50 PM It was a very talented field in advanced. Other than a very frustrating flame out during what was shaping up to be a very solid round I was pretty happy with how I flew. I learned some very valuable lessons about exactly where to stand and how not lining your body up correctly can push every maneuver off center (thank you judges (you know who you are)). Those are the kinds of lessons you only get at a contest. I am more satisfied with a fourth place finish having flown well against strong competition than I would have been finishing first or second against a "lesser" field having flown poorly. All I have wanted my entire pattern career was to be competitive and I am getting there. ?I felt horrible for Mike Murphy, he was flying the heck out of his new Integral and threatening to take home the gold until he inexplicably went into YS purgatory. Didn't change any settings but all of a sudden couldn't keep the engine running. Two flame outs later and he went from battling for first to suicide watch. He was just about ready to write a check on the spot for an E-power set up.? Colin's son was flying very well. To not have flown the US advanced sequence much and to come with a small plane in gale force winds and do so well is impressive. If he sticks with it I will be waving at him as he leapfrogs me on his way to masters. That's enough rambling for now, I gotta go finish the Hacker install in my new Integral! See you in Quincy Anthony From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:25:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. ? Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. ? Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much?better he is with my airplane than I will ever be.? ? Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. ? I hope to see you all again soon. From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Tue Aug 11 07:00:59 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:00:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <02bc01ca1a94$740cac30$5c260490$@net> Adequate cooling in the key. I fly in what can only be described as BRUTAL conditions on an engine here in south Texas. We are at 45 consecutive days over 100 degrees and that doesn't include the days prior to that which were over 100. It has been at least in the upper 90's since early May here near San Antonio. I have never had a problem with the engine over heating. I chased some other issues on the CDI, but never had an overheating issue previously, but I have tons of airflow in and out of the chin on my Black Magic. Also, as soon as anything changes on the DZ's.change the plug. They are very reliable engines when set up correctly. I don't think jumping to E-power fixes all the issues.ask Ken Thompson. Arch From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success About those YS flame outs...I was really concerned for my 170 as it have never been operated in that kind of temperature but it ran very well. I run the HS needle at 2 turns out while turning 18.1X11...I think others are running smaller loads with the needle in much more. I was 2.25 with 18.1X10 and 2.5 with 17X12. Also, I didnt look under Mikes plane, but you need a really big exit hole for adequate cooling. Colin. --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Monday, August 10, 2009, 10:50 PM It was a very talented field in advanced. Other than a very frustrating flame out during what was shaping up to be a very solid round I was pretty happy with how I flew. I learned some very valuable lessons about exactly where to stand and how not lining your body up correctly can push every maneuver off center (thank you judges (you know who you are)). Those are the kinds of lessons you only get at a contest. I am more satisfied with a fourth place finish having flown well against strong competition than I would have been finishing first or second against a "lesser" field having flown poorly. All I have wanted my entire pattern career was to be competitive and I am getting there. I felt horrible for Mike Murphy, he was flying the heck out of his new Integral and threatening to take home the gold until he inexplicably went into YS purgatory. Didn't change any settings but all of a sudden couldn't keep the engine running. Two flame outs later and he went from battling for first to suicide watch. He was just about ready to write a check on the spot for an E-power set up. Colin's son was flying very well. To not have flown the US advanced sequence much and to come with a small plane in gale force winds and do so well is impressive. If he sticks with it I will be waving at him as he leapfrogs me on his way to masters. That's enough rambling for now, I gotta go finish the Hacker install in my new Integral! See you in Quincy Anthony _____ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:25:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much better he is with my airplane than I will ever be. Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. I hope to see you all again soon. _____ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Tue Aug 11 07:14:00 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:14:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <02bc01ca1a94$740cac30$5c260490$@net> References: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <02bc01ca1a94$740cac30$5c260490$@net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9083@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> DO NOT change the plug when the engine is warm! I'll be sending my stripped head back to Richard and buying a replacement. $200 mistake I'm sure... -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:00 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Adequate cooling in the key. I fly in what can only be described as BRUTAL conditions on an engine here in south Texas. We are at 45 consecutive days over 100 degrees and that doesn't include the days prior to that which were over 100. It has been at least in the upper 90's since early May here near San Antonio. I have never had a problem with the engine over heating. I chased some other issues on the CDI, but never had an overheating issue previously, but I have tons of airflow in and out of the chin on my Black Magic. Also, as soon as anything changes on the DZ's...change the plug. They are very reliable engines when set up correctly. I don't think jumping to E-power fixes all the issues...ask Ken Thompson... Arch From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success About those YS flame outs...I was really concerned for my 170 as it have never been operated in that kind of temperature but it ran very well. I run the HS needle at 2 turns out while turning 18.1X11...I think others are running smaller loads with the needle in much more. I was 2.25 with 18.1X10 and 2.5 with 17X12. Also, I didnt look under Mikes plane, but you need a really big exit hole for adequate cooling. Colin. --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Monday, August 10, 2009, 10:50 PM It was a very talented field in advanced. Other than a very frustrating flame out during what was shaping up to be a very solid round I was pretty happy with how I flew. I learned some very valuable lessons about exactly where to stand and how not lining your body up correctly can push every maneuver off center (thank you judges (you know who you are)). Those are the kinds of lessons you only get at a contest. I am more satisfied with a fourth place finish having flown well against strong competition than I would have been finishing first or second against a "lesser" field having flown poorly. All I have wanted my entire pattern career was to be competitive and I am getting there. I felt horrible for Mike Murphy, he was flying the heck out of his new Integral and threatening to take home the gold until he inexplicably went into YS purgatory. Didn't change any settings but all of a sudden couldn't keep the engine running. Two flame outs later and he went from battling for first to suicide watch. He was just about ready to write a check on the spot for an E-power set up. Colin's son was flying very well. To not have flown the US advanced sequence much and to come with a small plane in gale force winds and do so well is impressive. If he sticks with it I will be waving at him as he leapfrogs me on his way to masters. That's enough rambling for now, I gotta go finish the Hacker install in my new Integral! See you in Quincy Anthony ________________________________ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:25:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much better he is with my airplane than I will ever be. Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. I hope to see you all again soon. ________________________________ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/11/09 06:10:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Tue Aug 11 07:21:03 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:21:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9083@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><02bc01ca1a94$740cac30$5c260490$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9083@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <8CBE8AE657C6D7D-10F8-EF@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> Send your head to Clarence Lee instead. For about $17.50, he will install an insert, and your glow plug hole will be better than new. He also fixes exhaust threads. I've used him several times with complete satisfaction. He advertises in the Classified ad section of Model Aviation. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2009 10:07 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success DO NOT change the plug when the engine is warm!? I?ll be sending my stripped head back to Richard and buying a replacement.? $200 mistake I?m sure? ? -Mark ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:00 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success ? Adequate cooling in the key.? I fly in what can only be described as BRUT AL conditions on an engine here in south Texas.? We are at 45 consecutive days over 100 degrees and that doesn?t include the days prior to that which were over 100.? It has been at least in the upper 90?s since early May here near San Antonio.? I have never had a problem with the engine over heating.? I chased some other issues on the CDI, but never had an overheating issue previously, but I have tons of airflow in and out of the chin on my Black Magic.? ? Also, as soon as anything changes on the DZ?s?change the plug.? They are very reliable engines when set up correctly.? ? I don?t think jumping to E-power fixes all the issues?ask Ken Thompson? ? Arch ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success ? About those YS flame outs...I was really concerned for my 170 as it have?never been operated in?that kind of?temperature but it ran very well.=C 2I run the HS needle at 2 turns out while turning 18.1X11...I think?others are running smaller loads with the needle in much more. I was 2.25 with 18.1X10 and 2.5 with 17X12. ? Also, I didnt look under Mikes plane, but you need a really big exit hole for adequate cooling. ? Colin. ? --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Monday, August 10, 2009, 10:50 PM It was a very talented field in advanced. Other than a very frustrating flame out during what was shaping up to be a very solid round I was pretty happy with how I flew. I learned some very valuable lessons about exactly where to stand and how not lining your body up correctly can push every maneuver off center (thank you judges (you know who you are)). Those are the kinds of lessons you only get at a contest. I am more satisfied with a fourth place finish having flown well against strong competition than I would have been finishing first or second against a "lesser" field having flown poorly. All I have wanted my entire pattern career was to be competitive and I am getting there. ? ?I felt horrible for Mike Murphy, he was flying the heck out of his new Integral and threatening to take home the gold until he inexplicably went into YS purgatory. Didn't change any settings but all of a sudden couldn't keep the engine running. Two flame outs later and he went from battling for first to suicide watch. He was just about ready to write a check on the spot for an E-power set up.? ? Colin's son was flying very well. To not have flown the US advanced sequence much and to come with a small plane in gale force winds and do so well is impressive. If he sticks with it I will be waving at him as he leapfrogs me on his way to masters. ? That's enough rambling for now, I gotta go finish the Hacker install in my new Integral! ? See you in Quincy Anthony ? ----------------------------- ------------------------------- From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:25:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion"0D Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. ? Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. ? Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much?better he is with my airplane than I will ever be.? ? Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. ? I hope to see you all again soon. ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Je sky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ------------------------------------------------ ------------ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/11/09 06:10:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Tue Aug 11 07:34:42 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:34:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <8CBE8AE657C6D7D-10F8-EF@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> References: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><02bc01ca1a94$740cac30$5c260490$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9083@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <8CBE8AE657C6D7D-10F8-EF@WEBMAIL-DF06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9088@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> AWESOME!!!! Thanks!!!! -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jon Lowe Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:21 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Send your head to Clarence Lee instead. For about $17.50, he will install an insert, and your glow plug hole will be better than new. He also fixes exhaust threads. I've used him several times with complete satisfaction. He advertises in the Classified ad section of Model Aviation. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2009 10:07 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success DO NOT change the plug when the engine is warm!? I?ll be sending my stripped head back to Richard and buying a replacement.? $200 mistake I?m sure? ? -Mark ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Archie Stafford Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:00 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success ? Adequate cooling in the key.? I fly in what can only be described as BRUT AL conditions on an engine here in south Texas.? We are at 45 consecutive days over 100 degrees and that doesn?t include the days prior to that which were over 100.? It has been at least in the upper 90?s since early May here near San Antonio.? I have never had a problem with the engine over heating.? I chased some other issues on the CDI, but never had an overheating issue previously, but I have tons of airflow in and out of the chin on my Black Magic.? ? Also, as soon as anything changes on the DZ?s?change the plug.? They are very reliable engines when set up correctly.? ? I don?t think jumping to E-power fixes all the issues?ask Ken Thompson? ? Arch ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success ? About those YS flame outs...I was really concerned for my 170 as it have?never been operated in?that kind of?temperature but it ran very well.=C 2I run the HS needle at 2 turns out while turning 18.1X11...I think?others are running smaller loads with the needle in much more. I was 2.25 with 18.1X10 and 2.5 with 17X12. ? Also, I didnt look under Mikes plane, but you need a really big exit hole for adequate cooling. ? Colin. ? --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Monday, August 10, 2009, 10:50 PM It was a very talented field in advanced. Other than a very frustrating flame out during what was shaping up to be a very solid round I was pretty happy with how I flew. I learned some very valuable lessons about exactly where to stand and how not lining your body up correctly can push every maneuver off center (thank you judges (you know who you are)). Those are the kinds of lessons you only get at a contest. I am more satisfied with a fourth place finish having flown well against strong competition than I would have been finishing first or second against a "lesser" field having flown poorly. All I have wanted my entire pattern career was to be competitive and I am getting there. ? ?I felt horrible for Mike Murphy, he was flying the heck out of his new Integral and threatening to take home the gold until he inexplicably went into YS purgatory. Didn't change any settings but all of a sudden couldn't keep the engine running. Two flame outs later and he went from battling for first to suicide watch. He was just about ready to write a check on the spot for an E-power set up.? ? Colin's son was flying very well. To not have flown the US advanced sequence much and to come with a small plane in gale force winds and do so well is impressive. If he sticks with it I will be waving at him as he leapfrogs me on his way to masters. ? That's enough rambling for now, I gotta go finish the Hacker install in my new Integral! ? See you in Quincy Anthony ? ----------------------------- ------------------------------- From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:25:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion"0D Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. ? Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. ? Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much?better he is with my airplane than I will ever be.? ? Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. ? I hope to see you all again soon. ------------------------------------------------------------ From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather.? Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Je sky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ------------------------------------------------ ------------ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/11/09 06:10:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From flyintexan at att.net Tue Aug 11 07:52:54 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:52:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Message-ID: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 11 07:55:29 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 15:55:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying Giants post from Andrew Jesky Message-ID: <361075.30773.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This was posted by Andrew on FlyingGiants at 10:30 this morning. http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/fg3/45608-urgent-us-airways-help.html Pasted below: ______________________________________________________ Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky ___________________________________________________________ Not sure if anyone on the list may be able to help them.... Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ghwatson at comcast.net Tue Aug 11 08:08:26 2009 From: ghwatson at comcast.net (Glen Watson) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:08:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dale Arnold chairman of the judging committee is a US Air pilot perhaps he can assist. Here's his email from the NSRCA site da4rc at joimail.com ...anyone have his ph number and could contact him directly? _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Tue Aug 11 08:09:46 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris Moon) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:09:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gene.maurice at sgmservice.com Tue Aug 11 08:14:26 2009 From: gene.maurice at sgmservice.com (Gene Maurice) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:14:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000c01ca1a9e$cc54e0b0$64fea210$@maurice@sgmservice.com> Does anyone have Al Glenn's contact info. He may be able to get some help through FedEx. Gene Maurice Dallas, GA AMA 3408 NSRCA 877 PACSS.sgmservice.com gene.maurice at sgmservice.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Tue Aug 11 08:15:15 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:15:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <514345.57948.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> They take Kayaks....Im sure you will get this taken care of.... http://www.usairways.com/awa/content/traveltools/baggage/specialitems.aspx ________________________________ From: Chris Moon To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09:40 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT I have a call in to my US Airways agent friend and also another US Airways Supervisor friend.? I spoke w/ Andrew and we will try to get this taken care of for him. Chris Mark Hunt wrote: As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... > > >Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. > > >The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. > >Andrew Jesky > ________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 11 08:16:57 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:16:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fuel group purchase In-Reply-To: <004d01ca1a73$e5433a70$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <685255.23665.qm@web83907.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I am going to order fuel(s) in the first week of September. If anyone want order Morgan, Powermaster, or WildCat fuels, please contact me directly for pricing. Thanks, Ihncheol From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Tue Aug 11 08:17:00 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:17:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <000c01ca1a9e$cc54e0b0$64fea210$@maurice@sgmservice.com> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <000c01ca1a9e$cc54e0b0$64fea210$@maurice@sgmservice.com> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2291E@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> I have been on the phone with Al he is already over in Paris. If I ship via Fedex they will get there Monday if I go UPS they will be there Friday. I'm just worried about them breaking the planes. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Gene Maurice Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 12:14 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Does anyone have Al Glenn's contact info. He may be able to get some help through FedEx. Gene Maurice Dallas, GA AMA 3408 NSRCA 877 PACSS.sgmservice.com gene.maurice at sgmservice.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774 My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Tue Aug 11 08:18:27 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:18:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <514345.57948.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <514345.57948.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2291F@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> The problem when I called them is they cannot guarantee that they will make it on the flight. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 12:15 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT They take Kayaks....Im sure you will get this taken care of.... http://www.usairways.com/awa/content/traveltools/baggage/specialitems.aspx ________________________________ From: Chris Moon To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:09:40 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT I have a call in to my US Airways agent friend and also another US Airways Supervisor friend. I spoke w/ Andrew and we will try to get this taken care of for him. Chris Mark Hunt wrote: As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcombs1947 at att.net Tue Aug 11 08:41:40 2009 From: jcombs1947 at att.net (Jerry Combs) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:41:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><514345.57948.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2291F@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: <809F7E5B119A44BFAFAD4CB387F7ED44@D4KBKQ71> Andrew, I hope that you get everything worked out with the airline. Good luck to you and the rest of the team. Hope to see you again in Wichita in December. Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Tue Aug 11 08:43:20 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:43:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <809F7E5B119A44BFAFAD4CB387F7ED44@D4KBKQ71> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><514345.57948.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2291F@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> <809F7E5B119A44BFAFAD4CB387F7ED44@D4KBKQ71> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B22922@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Jerry, Thanks for the help, We are getting it resolved. Just one of those things that when you talk to one person in the company they say, yes your all set, then I call today and they said nope it will not happen. Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jerry Combs Sent: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009 12:42 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Andrew, I hope that you get everything worked out with the airline. Good luck to you and the rest of the team. Hope to see you again in Wichita in December. Jerry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 11 08:47:49 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:47:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B22922@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><514345.57948.qm@web35208.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2291F@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> <809F7E5B119A44BFAFAD4CB387F7ED44@D4KBKQ71> <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B22922@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: <4A81A0B0.7030308@cox.net> Andrew Jesky wrote: > > Jerry, > > > > Thanks for the help, We are getting it resolved. Just one of those > things that when you talk to one person in the company they say, yes > your all set, then I call today and they said nope it will not happen. > > > > > > Andrew > To be honest, I have had better luck with shipping than flying. I know 3 soaring guys who had TSA literally destroy their planes while "inspecting" them. Servos torn out of the wings (we glue them in) destroying the wing skin, lost wing rods, you name it. I've shipped gliders in Sportubes several times without incident by both FedEx and UPS. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 11 08:50:22 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 16:50:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 08:52:52 -0700 From: flyintexan at att.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky _________________________________________________________________ Get your vacation photos on your phone! http://windowsliveformobile.com/en-us/photos/default.aspx?&OCID=0809TL-HM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmurphy178 at comcast.net Tue Aug 11 09:54:43 2009 From: mmurphy178 at comcast.net (mmurphy178 at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:54:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <891831316-1250013281-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-288027013-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> The Weak Signals Contest was great. The quality of flying in every class, WOW!! I believe that when the competition is this good, every one flies a little better than he thinks he is capable of. With so many "old timers" in one place the amount of information and advice to be had is amazing. One thing I did learn.....listen to your coach......if she (or he) says your pattern is off center, it probably is. Please keep the YS suggestions coming, they are appreciated. Mike Murphy Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: colin chariandy Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:48:15 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 11 14:47:43 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:47:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A Worlds Field Location In-Reply-To: References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A81F503.1040508@cox.net> FWIW I found that the field is not located at the coordinates shown on the F3A webpage (the FAI page) On Google Earth the field is centered on 39 degrees 53.187' N 8 degrees 38.929' W Enter as 39 53.187 -8 38.929 Nice looking field. ~900 x 55 main runway with a 430x50 foot cross runway. All paved. The website says 1,000 meters but that is not what Google Earth measures off. Anyhow, cool looking site. Good luck to the Team!! http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/informations.php http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/airfield.php From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 14:53:05 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:53:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A Worlds Field Location In-Reply-To: <4A81F503.1040508@cox.net> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A81F503.1040508@cox.net> Message-ID: <3454543c0908111553u664c7edfvf0144407a5b41345@mail.gmail.com> I went to the Portuguese website and used those coordinates on Google Earth... worked like a champ. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Bill's Email wrote: > FWIW I found that the field is not located at the coordinates shown on the > F3A webpage (the FAI page) > > On Google Earth the field is centered on 39 degrees 53.187' N 8 degrees > 38.929' W > > Enter as 39 53.187 -8 38.929 > > Nice looking field. ~900 x 55 main runway with a 430x50 foot cross runway. > All paved. > > The website says 1,000 meters but that is not what Google Earth measures > off. > > Anyhow, cool looking site. Good luck to the Team!! > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/informations.php > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/airfield.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 11 15:03:31 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 23:03:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A Worlds Field Location In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908111553u664c7edfvf0144407a5b41345@mail.gmail.com> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A81F503.1040508@cox.net> <3454543c0908111553u664c7edfvf0144407a5b41345@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A81F8C1.2090408@cox.net> OK, I'm an idiot (big surprise) I forgot to use the {'} and {"} marks. Makes a difference, Never mind. But the decimal conversion is right!! (I think) Their photo also makes it appear that the runway has been extended to the SW from what show on the Google Earth image. Still neat that we can fire up Google Earth and see the field. Derek Koopowitz wrote: > I went to the Portuguese website and used those coordinates on Google > Earth... worked like a champ. > > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Bill's Email > wrote: > > FWIW I found that the field is not located at the coordinates > shown on the F3A webpage (the FAI page) > > On Google Earth the field is centered on 39 degrees 53.187' N 8 > degrees 38.929' W > > Enter as 39 53.187 -8 38.929 > > Nice looking field. ~900 x 55 main runway with a 430x50 foot cross > runway. All paved. > > The website says 1,000 meters but that is not what Google Earth > measures off. > > Anyhow, cool looking site. Good luck to the Team!! > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/informations.php > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/airfield.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Tue Aug 11 16:55:36 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:55:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomade the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success References: <821141.31510.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><690359.94220.qm@web112607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <02bc01ca1a94$740cac30$5c260490$@net> Message-ID: <006401ca1ae8$6ca6dc50$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Yep, just gives you a different set of issues...I think I have mine worked out, but no matter what power supply you decide on, it wioll have it's own issues to overcome... ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Archie Stafford To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:00 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomade the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Adequate cooling in the key. I fly in what can only be described as BRUTAL conditions on an engine here in south Texas. We are at 45 consecutive days over 100 degrees and that doesn't include the days prior to that which were over 100. It has been at least in the upper 90's since early May here near San Antonio. I have never had a problem with the engine over heating. I chased some other issues on the CDI, but never had an overheating issue previously, but I have tons of airflow in and out of the chin on my Black Magic. Also, as soon as anything changes on the DZ's.change the plug. They are very reliable engines when set up correctly. I don't think jumping to E-power fixes all the issues.ask Ken Thompson. Arch From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of colin chariandy Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 9:48 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success About those YS flame outs...I was really concerned for my 170 as it have never been operated in that kind of temperature but it ran very well. I run the HS needle at 2 turns out while turning 18.1X11...I think others are running smaller loads with the needle in much more. I was 2.25 with 18.1X10 and 2.5 with 17X12. Also, I didnt look under Mikes plane, but you need a really big exit hole for adequate cooling. Colin. --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Monday, August 10, 2009, 10:50 PM It was a very talented field in advanced. Other than a very frustrating flame out during what was shaping up to be a very solid round I was pretty happy with how I flew. I learned some very valuable lessons about exactly where to stand and how not lining your body up correctly can push every maneuver off center (thank you judges (you know who you are)). Those are the kinds of lessons you only get at a contest. I am more satisfied with a fourth place finish having flown well against strong competition than I would have been finishing first or second against a "lesser" field having flown poorly. All I have wanted my entire pattern career was to be competitive and I am getting there. I felt horrible for Mike Murphy, he was flying the heck out of his new Integral and threatening to take home the gold until he inexplicably went into YS purgatory. Didn't change any settings but all of a sudden couldn't keep the engine running. Two flame outs later and he went from battling for first to suicide watch. He was just about ready to write a check on the spot for an E-power set up. Colin's son was flying very well. To not have flown the US advanced sequence much and to come with a small plane in gale force winds and do so well is impressive. If he sticks with it I will be waving at him as he leapfrogs me on his way to masters. That's enough rambling for now, I gotta go finish the Hacker install in my new Integral! See you in Quincy Anthony ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:25:48 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Anthony even though you finished fourth. That was still really really good. It was probably the best field of Advanced Pilots that will be seen at a local contest. Of course it could be said that the Top Three were also at the Nats this year. I did'nt look at the scores but was really surprised with Colin's son, Sorry can't remember his name. He flew that Spot on 50 with a OS50SX and probably scored really well. Sometimes makes you wonder why we fly the big planes. Maybe compensating for something not sure what though. See you in Quincy --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Anthony Abdullah wrote: From: Anthony Abdullah Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:54 AM It was a great time even in the challenging conditions. Dennis, I'm sorry you didn't feel well, it was obvious that you weren't yourself. I hope you feel better soon so we can get back to verbally abusing each other. Thanks to Tim, Bob, and everyone else that helped put on the contest. Oh yeah, I would also like to thank Brenner for completely disassembling his Integral to show me how he did his Hacker mount, and Chris Moon, Scott Pavlock , and Mark "the human Airtronics manual" Atwood for helping me finally resolve the throttle curve issues on my Axi powered Black Magic. And thanks to Andrew for reminding me how much better he is with my airplane than I will ever be. Gosh, with as many people as I thanked you would think I would have won something. I hope to see you all again soon. -------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dennis Bodary To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2009 5:19:26 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success I had a good time even though i did'nt feel good enough to fly. --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org, "D4" , "D5" Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 5:02 PM I just returned home from the Weak Signals Club contest. Talk about contest conditions. Steady rain Saturday until 3:30PM, but fortunately once the rain did stop the wind blew about 25mph straight across the runway to dry everything off. Today there was no rain, but stiff winds all day long and temperatures in the low 90's for the first time this season in Michigan made for some challenging conditions. We did manage to get 2 rounds in Saturday afternoon and two more rounds today. Results: Sportsman: Bruce Herider (No flights) Tim Jesky (No flights) Intermediate: Ron Hansen Jim Gruntkowski Mike Gaishin Gary Stephens Loren Noyes David Cook Advanced: Bill Pritchett Bob Condra Ken Alexander Anthony Abdullah Mike Darr Mike Murphy Ethan Chariandy Charles Williams (no flights) Masters: Verne Koester Brenner Sharp Bobby Satallino Chris Moon Mike Cohen Mickey Losardo Bob Kane Frank Del Giudice Doc Villa Dennis Bodary (no flights) FAI: Andrew Jesky David Snow Mark Atwood Colin Chariandy Thank you very much for those contestants who came out and braved the weather. Thanks also to my co-CD Tim Jesky, his lovely wife Linda (for the food, scoring, and Friday hospitality), Heather Kaluf, Cindy Darr, Monique Losardo, Margetta Abdullah and anyone else I might have missed who helped out with the food and scoring. Hope to see you again next year. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tkeithblack at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 22:09:16 2009 From: tkeithblack at gmail.com (Keith Black) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 06:09:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] F3A Worlds Field Location In-Reply-To: <4A81F503.1040508@cox.net> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A81F503.1040508@cox.net> Message-ID: <77f26e410908112309v56e76befm349e0cbd79dd9d32@mail.gmail.com> Check out this link, I put a flight box overlay on the google earth image: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9009630 Keith Black On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Bill's Email wrote: > FWIW I found that the field is not located at the coordinates shown on the > F3A webpage (the FAI page) > > On Google Earth the field is centered on 39 degrees 53.187' N 8 degrees > 38.929' W > > Enter as 39 53.187 -8 38.929 > > Nice looking field. ~900 x 55 main runway with a 430x50 foot cross runway. > All paved. > > The website says 1,000 meters but that is not what Google Earth measures > off. > > Anyhow, cool looking site. Good luck to the Team!! > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/informations.php > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Informations/airfield.php > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derek_lieber at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 12 12:42:57 2009 From: derek_lieber at bellsouth.net (Derek Lieber) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:42:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] pattern items for sale Message-ID: <911167.14113.qm@web180012.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi. I've been cleaning house and have a number of pattern items available for sale: OS 140 RX engine + MACS header - both new in box $250 JR 10X transmitter - used, excellent condition $300 Bolly F3A wheel pants - half used, half new $30 Various servos: JR NES 537. Ten available. Horizon price $27. Asking $10 each or all 10 for $50. JR DS 9411. Two available. Horizon price $110. Asking $40 each or both for $70. JR DS 9411SA. Two available. Horizon price $95. Asking $35 each or both for $60. JR NES 8101. One available. Horizon price $75. Asking $30. JR DS 8411. One available. Horizon price $115. Asking $45. JR DS 8417. One available. Horizon price $125. Asking $45. Will sell all of the above servos as a package for $225. Pictures and more information here: http://ctdracing.co.cc/checksix/pattern Prices are negotiable and include shipping anywhere in USA. Please contact me via email if you're interested in anything. Derek Lieber derek_lieber at bellsouth.net From wgalligan at att.net Wed Aug 12 12:54:29 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:54:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] pattern items for sale In-Reply-To: <911167.14113.qm@web180012.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <911167.14113.qm@web180012.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Derek I'll take the OS 1.40 off your hands e-mail me at wgalligan at att.net Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Lieber" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:42 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] pattern items for sale > Hi. I've been cleaning house and have a number of pattern items available > for sale: > > OS 140 RX engine + MACS header - both new in box $250 > JR 10X transmitter - used, excellent condition $300 > Bolly F3A wheel pants - half used, half new $30 > > Various servos: > JR NES 537. Ten available. Horizon price $27. Asking $10 each or all 10 > for $50. > JR DS 9411. Two available. Horizon price $110. Asking $40 each or both for > $70. > JR DS 9411SA. Two available. Horizon price $95. Asking $35 each or both > for $60. > JR NES 8101. One available. Horizon price $75. Asking $30. > JR DS 8411. One available. Horizon price $115. Asking $45. > JR DS 8417. One available. Horizon price $125. Asking $45. > Will sell all of the above servos as a package for $225. > > Pictures and more information here: > > http://ctdracing.co.cc/checksix/pattern > > Prices are negotiable and include shipping anywhere in USA. > > Please contact me via email if you're interested in anything. > > Derek Lieber > > derek_lieber at bellsouth.net > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jaqfly at prodigy.net Wed Aug 12 17:48:13 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 01:48:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D 1 Pattern in Paradise P 11 In-Reply-To: References: <911167.14113.qm@web180012.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <110570.24533.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> FAI Pilots all is ready for P11 at Pattern in Paradise this weekend, even the weather looks great! ? Jim Quinn From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Thu Aug 13 03:41:39 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:41:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest-Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <707CB239634140E7B076A4FF3AFD3485@Tony> Message-ID: <7nafpc$11tvt6@dmzms99902.na.baesystems.com> Tony, Are we going to fly the 09 or P/F11 stuff in FAI? I want to be ready. J Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:58 AM To: 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jon Lowe' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest-Jacksonville, FL The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day... I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 13 03:44:43 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 11:44:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Patterncontest-Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <7nafpc$11tvt6@dmzms99902.na.baesystems.com> References: <7nafpc$11tvt6@dmzms99902.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: <6676E7B9443945A4868728DD7AB31291@UncleJasPC> 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, P Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) To: General pattern discussion ; Jon Lowe Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Patterncontest-Jacksonville, FL Tony, Are we going to fly the 09 or P/F11 stuff in FAI? I want to be ready. J Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:58 AM To: 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jon Lowe' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest-Jacksonville, FL The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day. I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Thu Aug 13 04:10:40 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 12:10:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman MemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <6676E7B9443945A4868728DD7AB31291@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <814i7o$42lnpk@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> I agree with 11 to!! Also, I think the next D3 contest is also going to fly the 11 sequences so lets consider carrying it forward. Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:45 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman MemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, P Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) To: General pattern discussion ; Jon Lowe Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Patterncontest-Jacksonville, FL Tony, Are we going to fly the 09 or P/F11 stuff in FAI? I want to be ready. J Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:58 AM To: 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jon Lowe' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest-Jacksonville, FL The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day... I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ejhaury at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 05:51:06 2009 From: ejhaury at comcast.net (Earl Haury) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:51:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. StillmanMemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <814i7o$42lnpk@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> References: <814i7o$42lnpk@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: P-11 score sheets are available on the NSRCA website. Earl ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:10 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. StillmanMemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL I agree with 11 to!! Also, I think the next D3 contest is also going to fly the 11 sequences so lets consider carrying it forward. Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:45 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman MemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, P Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) To: General pattern discussion ; Jon Lowe Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Patterncontest-Jacksonville, FL Tony, Are we going to fly the 09 or P/F11 stuff in FAI? I want to be ready. J Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:58 AM To: 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jon Lowe' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest-Jacksonville, FL The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day. I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Aug 13 06:07:34 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:07:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. StillmanMemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: <814i7o$42lnpk@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> References: <6676E7B9443945A4868728DD7AB31291@UncleJasPC> <814i7o$42lnpk@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: This is a District Championship contest, so we must fly the current sequences. P09 & F09. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Woodward, Jim (US SSA) Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:10 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. StillmanMemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL I agree with 11 to!! Also, I think the next D3 contest is also going to fly the 11 sequences so lets consider carrying it forward. Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:45 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman MemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, P Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) To: General pattern discussion ; Jon Lowe Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Patterncontest-Jacksonville, FL Tony, Are we going to fly the 09 or P/F11 stuff in FAI? I want to be ready. :-) Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:58 AM To: 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jon Lowe' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest-Jacksonville, FL The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day. I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Aug 13 06:17:22 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:17:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6AC43F6BE7C34C2AA0B08779C3A69392@jaysdesktop> Did this get resolved? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jshulman at cfl.rr.com Thu Aug 13 06:24:29 2009 From: jshulman at cfl.rr.com (J Shu) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:24:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <6AC43F6BE7C34C2AA0B08779C3A69392@jaysdesktop> References: <6AC43F6BE7C34C2AA0B08779C3A69392@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <421F454332614CF7913031324279F86A@UncleJasPC> Yes, both Andrew and I have approval to get our planes to Lisbon Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Marshall To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Did this get resolved? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Thu Aug 13 06:25:10 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:25:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <6AC43F6BE7C34C2AA0B08779C3A69392@jaysdesktop> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6AC43F6BE7C34C2AA0B08779C3A69392@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2298A@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Jay, Sorry I forgot to post on here but, yes it's all taken care of. Luckily there were phone calls made and special arrangements made to allow the models on the airplane. Jason's models will be leaving this afternoon with him and mine tomorrow with me. Andrew From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jay Marshall Sent: Thursday, 13 August, 2009 10:17 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Did this get resolved? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Thu Aug 13 06:25:35 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:25:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <421F454332614CF7913031324279F86A@UncleJasPC> References: <6AC43F6BE7C34C2AA0B08779C3A69392@jaysdesktop> <421F454332614CF7913031324279F86A@UncleJasPC> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2298B@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Dang, Jason beat me to it. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Thursday, 13 August, 2009 10:23 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Yes, both Andrew and I have approval to get our planes to Lisbon Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Marshall To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Did this get resolved? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Thu Aug 13 06:40:31 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:40:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J.StillmanMemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <7nafpc$12111e@dmzms99902.na.baesystems.com> Thanks Tony, Understood. jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:07 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J.StillmanMemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL This is a District Championship contest, so we must fly the current sequences... P09 & F09. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Woodward, Jim (US SSA) Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:10 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. StillmanMemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL I agree with 11 to!! Also, I think the next D3 contest is also going to fly the 11 sequences so lets consider carrying it forward. Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:45 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman MemorialPatterncontest-Jacksonville, FL 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, 11, P Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) To: General pattern discussion ; Jon Lowe Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:41 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Patterncontest-Jacksonville, FL Tony, Are we going to fly the 09 or P/F11 stuff in FAI? I want to be ready. J Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:58 AM To: 'General pattern discussion'; 'Jon Lowe' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest-Jacksonville, FL The Sept 26 & 27th IS CORRECT. The 25th is the practice day... I copied Jon Lowe on this as hopefully he can get in touch with Gary to get that changed on the NSRCA site. I don't have much luck getting Gary. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Burton Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:48 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] O.J. Stillman Memorial Pattern contest -Jacksonville, FL I notice that the NSRCA calendar of events list the dates for this contest as October 27, 2009 and the club calendar says Sept 25, 26, & 27 2009. Which is correct? I'm planning on going but I don't want to show up on the wrong date. Dave Burton ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Aug 13 06:42:37 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:42:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2298B@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: Fly 'em into the ground guys. Good luck! Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Jesky Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:16 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Dang, Jason beat me to it. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J Shu Sent: Thursday, 13 August, 2009 10:23 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Yes, both Andrew and I have approval to get our planes to Lisbon Regards, Jason www.shulmanaviation.com www.composite-arf.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Marshall To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Did this get resolved? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 06:50:52 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:50:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2298A@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> References: <131447.37328.qm@web80704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6AC43F6BE7C34C2AA0B08779C3A69392@jaysdesktop> <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2298A@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: <732180.41865.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Best of luck to you and all of Team USA !!!!! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Andrew Jesky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 10:15:39 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Jay, Sorry I forgot to post on here but, yes it?s all taken care of. Luckily there were phone calls made and special arrangements made to allow the models on the airplane. Jason?s models will be leaving this afternoon with him and mine tomorrow with me. Andrew From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jay Marshall Sent: Thursday, 13 August, 2009 10:17 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Did this get resolved? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 11:53 AM To: pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT As posted by Andrew on Flying Giants at 10:29am.....please help if you can... Hey guys im getting ready to go to Portugal for the Worlds. We thought we had everything cleared up but now when I called US AIRWAYS they said my airplanes cannot go on the aircraft as they do not meet the under 80" Cube rule. Can someone help me please. Maybe someone knows anyone as US Airways. I will be departing DTW on Friday at 1645 to PHL then leave PHL to LIS at 2025, arrive LIS at 0830. IF ANYONE CAN HELP MY CELL IS 419-377-6774. My self and Jason are in the same boat as of right now. The box dimensions are 80" Long 15" wide 24" tall. Andrew Jesky -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 07:37:04 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:37:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: References: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9B2298B@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: <20090813153704.8AA0811638@bridi.netexpress.com> Jay, by "'em" I assume you mean the competition, not their aircraft!!! :-D Best to the US Team!!!! At 10:42 AM 8/13/2009, you wrote: >Fly 'em into the ground guys. Good luck! > > >Jay Marshall -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Thu Aug 13 08:05:59 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:05:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <891831316-1250013281-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-288027013-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Mike I still see my YS as a monster waiting to get me but I have managed to keep it performing well for the last 200+ flights using these guides: ? 1. The HS needle seems to be more leanient to richer settings so I have always run it at or above 2 turns out. 2. I leaned the pump a little to improve the idle but I don't think one needs to mess with it much. 3. Change the plug every 50-60 flights...I'm using OS F type. 4. Adjust valve clearences when you change the plug and keep them on the low side of the range. 5. Ensure the exit hole in the cowl is BIG...really BIG. 6. I never run the engine dry. I close the throttle at the end of the flight and de-fuel. 7. Limit the top RPM with the smaller props. I was down to 85% ATV with the 17-12...I think. 8. Use CP30 HP Heli. ? Colin. ? --- On Tue, 8/11/09, mmurphy178 at comcast.net wrote: From: mmurphy178 at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 1:56 PM The Weak Signals Contest was great. The quality of flying in every class, WOW!! I believe that when the competition is this good, every one flies a little better than he thinks he is capable of.???With so many "old timers" in one place the amount of information and advice to be had is amazing. One thing I did learn.....listen to your coach......if she (or he) says your pattern is off center, it probably is. Please keep the YS suggestions coming, they are appreciated. Mike Murphy Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: colin chariandy Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:48:15 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made ??? the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billpritch at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 08:45:12 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:45:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Mike - I sure hope you have it going now - really felt bad for you!! We've all spent time in YS hell, but I really think Colin has some good advice and I also think that the initial running at idle is what made mine work so well. I do run the 18.1x10 and although I don't limit throttle atv, am very rarely at full throttle in a flight. Sometimes a simple thing like dirt in a fuel filter can float around - like inside of a crap trap, and cause the irregular shut downs you experienced. Of course now that I've said all this it's probably my turn....... ha! Really though, my 170 has been a pleasure from day 1, has ran great all summer - I don't count flights so couldn't tell you how many, but quite a few! Hope it all works out! See ya soon - Bill Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: colin chariandy To: mmurphy178 at comcast.net; General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:05:56 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Mike I still see my YS as a monster waiting to get me but I have managed to keep it performing well for the last 200+ flights using these guides: 1. The HS needle seems to be more leanient to richer settings so I have always run it at or above 2 turns out. 2. I leaned the pump a little to improve the idle but I don't think one needs to mess with it much. 3. Change the plug every 50-60 flights...I'm using OS F type. 4. Adjust valve clearences when you change the plug and keep them on the low side of the range. 5. Ensure the exit hole in the cowl is BIG...really BIG. 6. I never run the engine dry. I close the throttle at the end of the flight and de-fuel. 7. Limit the top RPM with the smaller props. I was down to 85% ATV with the 17-12...I think. 8. Use CP30 HP Heli. Colin. --- On Tue, 8/11/09, mmurphy178 at comcast.net wrote: >From: mmurphy178 at comcast.net >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success >To: "General pattern discussion" >Received: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 1:56 PM > > >The Weak Signals Contest was great. The quality of flying in every class, WOW!! I believe that when the competition is this good, every one flies a little better than he thinks he is capable of. With so many "old timers" in one place the amount of information and advice to be had is amazing. One thing I did learn.....listen to your coach......if she (or he) says your pattern is off center, it probably is. >Please keep the YS suggestions coming, they are appreciated. > >Mike Murphy >Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel > >-----Original Message----- >From: colin chariandy > >Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 07:48:15 >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who made > the Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > ________________________________ Yahoo! Canada Toolbar :Search from anywhere on the web and bookmark your favourite sites. Download it now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Aug 13 08:49:11 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 16:49:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT In-Reply-To: <20090813153704.8AA0811638@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <9F43394741AE4D3680856BF92E1C8420@jaysdesktop> Roger that .. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 11:37 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] URGENT Jay, by "'em" I assume you mean the competition, not their aircraft!!! :-D Best to the US Team!!!! At 10:42 AM 8/13/2009, you wrote: Fly 'em into the ground guys. Good luck! Jay Marshall --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmurphy178 at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 09:57:25 2009 From: mmurphy178 at comcast.net (mmurphy178 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:57:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <221283314-1250186241-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264204164-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Thanks for the YS advice. Tonight I will check the valve clearance, fuel lines, and plug. Then tomorrow, out to the field to look at that HS Needle. Mike M. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:45:07 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 09:59:00 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:59:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <221283314-1250186241-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264204164-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <221283314-1250186241-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264204164-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <673132.88501.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is this a relatively new engine? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "mmurphy178 at comcast.net" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:59:24 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Thanks for the YS advice. Tonight I will check the valve clearance, fuel lines, and plug. Then tomorrow, out to the field to look at that HS Needle. Mike M. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:45:07 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mmurphy178 at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 10:16:29 2009 From: mmurphy178 at comcast.net (mmurphy178 at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:16:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <673132.88501.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <221283314-1250186241-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264204164-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><673132.88501.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1074960940-1250187387-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1905268213-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Yes, about 3 gallons. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:58 To: ; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Is this a relatively new engine? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "mmurphy178 at comcast.net" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:59:24 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Thanks for the YS advice. Tonight I will check the valve clearance, fuel lines, and plug. Then tomorrow, out to the field to look at that HS Needle. Mike M. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:45:07 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Aug 13 10:24:09 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:24:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success In-Reply-To: <1074960940-1250187387-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1905268213-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <221283314-1250186241-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264204164-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><673132.88501.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1074960940-1250187387-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1905268213-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9163@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Did you break the engine in at idle for a while before allowing it to be run up to full throttle? These engines can be REALLY tight when they first arrive. Richard advised not running the engine past an idle for the first few tank fulls. On my engine (I know...not a good example for the weekend) I was barely able to get the engine to idle below 4000rpm for the first tank. After that it got progressively better quickly and by the third tank I could sit steady at 2100. At that point I began running it up and setting the top end. Other than stripping the head this weekend trying to replace a glow plug (and forgetting to fuel it in the semi's at the nats!) it's been running really well. I'm not sure what NOT breaking it in will do. Troy?? -M -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mmurphy178 at comcast.net Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:19 PM To: Bob Kane; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Yes, about 3 gallons. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:58 To: ; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Is this a relatively new engine? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "mmurphy178 at comcast.net" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:59:24 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Thanks for the YS advice. Tonight I will check the valve clearance, fuel lines, and plug. Then tomorrow, out to the field to look at that HS Needle. Mike M. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:45:07 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/13/09 06:11:00 From ghwatson at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 12:04:31 2009 From: ghwatson at comcast.net (Glen Watson) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:04:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you toeveryone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contesta success In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9163@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><221283314-1250186241-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264204164-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><673132.88501.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1074960940-1250187387-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1905268213-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9163@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <7C2F08CF791C4E91874A82151544EDCF@telapoint.local> In addition to lubing the engine manually prior to initial runs I have begun following Richard Verano's advice as Mark Atwood describes of breaking in my 170's by running at least 40ozs of fuel thru them at fast idle. The break-in process consists of running the engine in 10 minute intervals then allow an adequate cool-down period between runs. At a fast idle 3500-4000rpms you'll be surprised how quick 40ozs is utilized. This is done in the aircraft. After break-in runs have been completed I set the high speed then the idle and go-fly. Have done this to 4 different 170's (none CDI) which all have exceeded my performance expectations in the areas of longevity, idle and overall running consistency. The oldest of the four engines which started service early 2008 pre-NATS which had approx. 275 flights was recently sent to YS Parts and Service, still performing good by the way, returned needing a ring, rear bearing and valve cover gasket kind of normal maintenance stuff. The other three are still in service 1 in my primary plane, 1 in my back-up plane and the third on the shelve ready to use if/when needed. User configuration: CP 30% heli YS plug Props - 15X11 4bld, 18.1X11 2bld 2009 triple digit Texas summer heat Hope this information is helpful... Best regards, Glen Watson http://glenwatson.blogspot.com/ -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:18 PM To: mmurphy178 at comcast.net; General patterndiscussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you toeveryone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contesta success Did you break the engine in at idle for a while before allowing it to be run up to full throttle? These engines can be REALLY tight when they first arrive. Richard advised not running the engine past an idle for the first few tank fulls. On my engine (I know...not a good example for the weekend) I was barely able to get the engine to idle below 4000rpm for the first tank. After that it got progressively better quickly and by the third tank I could sit steady at 2100. At that point I began running it up and setting the top end. Other than stripping the head this weekend trying to replace a glow plug (and forgetting to fuel it in the semi's at the nats!) it's been running really well. I'm not sure what NOT breaking it in will do. Troy?? -M -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mmurphy178 at comcast.net Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:19 PM To: Bob Kane; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Yes, about 3 gallons. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:58 To: ; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Is this a relatively new engine? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "mmurphy178 at comcast.net" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:59:24 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success Thanks for the YS advice. Tonight I will check the valve clearance, fuel lines, and plug. Then tomorrow, out to the field to look at that HS Needle. Mike M. Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel -----Original Message----- From: Bill Pritchett Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:45:07 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/13/09 06:11:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 13 12:09:08 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:09:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS discussion, add pushrod o-rings to your list of things to check Message-ID: <585311.49974.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> One of the things that I found on my YS160DZ right after the NATS this year was the o-rings that support/seal the fuel pump and exhaust pushrod cover were worn and leaking. This area is under supercharging pressure (see last paragraph) and needs a good seal or a variety of issues can arise. In my case, there was an unusual amount of oil residue inside the cowl and blowing back on the fusealge. The engine was also flat in the midrange, but the idle and high-end were good. Prior to the NATS I did a partial rebuild and replaced the bearings, front seal, and piston ring under the assumption the front seal was bad. The problem continued. It was after the NATS that I discovered the worn o-rings. I replaced them and the leaking stopped. The midrange issue was resolved also This past weekend another person's 170DZ started acting up. There was also evidence of an oily leak. He did not have replacement o-rings but turned them around so the pump was sititng on a fresh surface. This seems to have cleared the leak and the engine ran good but other parts were replaced so the source of the original problem may remain unknown. So, my recommendation is you replace the pushrod o-rings every season on these engines. It is a quick job and you can do it without removing the engine from the plane. I never had this issue with the pre-DZ series of engines, the added mass of the fuel pump causes them to wear out. Last paragraph: For those of you who study YS parts diagrams, you will notice the front crank seal was introduced on the YS120SC. It was on this engine that YS drilled holes around the valve stem boss to utilize the area under the valve cover as an air chamber and allow them to remove the bulky aluminum box between the carb and head as on the "AC" series. This was a very efficient way of storing the pressurized air without extra parts, but made it necessary to seal every opening from the valve cover forward. So, the pushrod covers, cam cover, and crankshaft all require good seals. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 13 12:59:59 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:59:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS discussion, add pushrod o-rings to your list of things to check References: <585311.49974.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <23DE43490D54476DA00960C7DF4C2D66@glazecstp32xp> Excellent analysis, Bob. It surely helps to understand the principles of the machinery. I got caught in the 1.20 SC debacle; it got so that even the service people, ( Rick Matie and Richard Verano) couldn't make the thing run right. With their co-operation, I cured the SC problem with a 1.40 FZ. Problem solved. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kane" To: Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS discussion,add pushrod o-rings to your list of things to check > One of the things that I found on my YS160DZ right after the NATS this > year was the o-rings that support/seal the fuel pump and exhaust pushrod > cover were worn and leaking. This area is under supercharging pressure > (see last paragraph) and needs a good seal or a variety of issues can > arise. In my case, there was an unusual amount of oil residue inside the > cowl and blowing back on the fusealge. The engine was also flat in the > midrange, but the idle and high-end were good. Prior to the NATS I did a > partial rebuild and replaced the bearings, front seal, and piston ring > under the assumption the front seal was bad. The problem continued. It was > after the NATS that I discovered the worn o-rings. I replaced them and the > leaking stopped. The midrange issue was resolved also > > This past weekend another person's 170DZ started acting up. There was > also evidence of an oily leak. He did not have replacement o-rings but > turned them around so the pump was sititng on a fresh surface. This seems > to have cleared the leak and the engine ran good but other parts were > replaced so the source of the original problem may remain unknown. > > So, my recommendation is you replace the pushrod o-rings every season on > these engines. It is a quick job and you can do it without removing the > engine from the plane. I never had this issue with the pre-DZ series of > engines, the added mass of the fuel pump causes them to wear out. > > Last paragraph: > > For those of you who study YS parts diagrams, you will notice the front > crank seal was introduced on the YS120SC. It was on this engine that YS > drilled holes around the valve stem boss to utilize the area under the > valve cover as an air chamber and allow them to remove the bulky aluminum > box between the carb and head as on the "AC" series. This was a very > efficient way of storing the pressurized air without extra parts, but made > it necessary to seal every opening from the valve cover forward. So, the > pushrod covers, cam cover, and crankshaft all require good seals. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From wgalligan at att.net Thu Aug 13 13:27:17 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:27:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you toeveryone whomadetheWeak Signals Precision Aerobtics contesta success In-Reply-To: <7C2F08CF791C4E91874A82151544EDCF@telapoint.local> References: <197662.94684.qm@web112602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><433468.51501.qm@web65105.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><221283314-1250186241-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1264204164-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><673132.88501.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com><1074960940-1250187387-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1905268213-@bxe1196.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9163@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <7C2F08CF791C4E91874A82151544EDCF@telapoint.local> Message-ID: Man.... must be nice to have a gaggle of parts at your disposal(use). And the time to do use them.... I'm jealous.... kinda... a lot... Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Watson" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you toeveryone whomadetheWeak Signals Precision Aerobtics contesta success > In addition to lubing the engine manually prior to initial runs I have > begun > following Richard Verano's advice as Mark Atwood describes of breaking in > my > 170's by running at least 40ozs of fuel thru them at fast idle. The > break-in > process consists of running the engine in 10 minute intervals then allow > an > adequate cool-down period between runs. At a fast idle 3500-4000rpms > you'll > be surprised how quick 40ozs is utilized. This is done in the aircraft. > After break-in runs have been completed I set the high speed then the idle > and go-fly. > > Have done this to 4 different 170's (none CDI) which all have exceeded my > performance expectations in the areas of longevity, idle and overall > running > consistency. The oldest of the four engines which started service early > 2008 > pre-NATS which had approx. 275 flights was recently sent to YS Parts and > Service, still performing good by the way, returned needing a ring, rear > bearing and valve cover gasket kind of normal maintenance stuff. The > other > three are still in service 1 in my primary plane, 1 in my back-up plane > and > the third on the shelve ready to use if/when needed. > > User configuration: > CP 30% heli > YS plug > Props - 15X11 4bld, 18.1X11 2bld > 2009 triple digit Texas summer heat > > Hope this information is helpful... > > Best regards, > > Glen Watson > http://glenwatson.blogspot.com/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, > Mark > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:18 PM > To: mmurphy178 at comcast.net; General patterndiscussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you toeveryone > whomadethe > Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contesta success > > Did you break the engine in at idle for a while before allowing it to be > run > up to full throttle? These engines can be REALLY tight when they first > arrive. Richard advised not running the engine past an idle for the first > few tank fulls. > > On my engine (I know...not a good example for the weekend) I was barely > able > to get the engine to idle below 4000rpm for the first tank. After that it > got progressively better quickly and by the third tank I could sit steady > at > 2100. At that point I began running it up and setting the top end. Other > than stripping the head this weekend trying to replace a glow plug (and > forgetting to fuel it in the semi's at the nats!) it's been running really > well. > > I'm not sure what NOT breaking it in will do. Troy?? > > -M > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > mmurphy178 at comcast.net > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:19 PM > To: Bob Kane; General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone > whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > Yes, about 3 gallons. > > Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Kane > > Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 10:58:58 > To: ; General pattern > discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone > whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > > Is this a relatively new engine? > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "mmurphy178 at comcast.net" > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:59:24 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone > whomadethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > Thanks for the YS advice. Tonight I will check the valve clearance, fuel > lines, and plug. Then tomorrow, out to the field to look at that HS > Needle. > > > Mike M. > Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Pritchett > > Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:45:07 > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] A really big thank you to everyone who > madethe Weak Signals Precision Aerobtics contest a success > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/13/09 > 06:11:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlkonn at hotmail.com Thu Aug 13 14:45:12 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:45:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Message-ID: I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From burtona at atmc.net Thu Aug 13 14:52:03 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 22:52:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005801ca1c68$b082f770$1188e650$@net> Take a look at a Ford Flex. Not exactly a mini-van but looks like a good airplane hauler. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM To: Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From HankPajari at aol.com Thu Aug 13 15:00:13 2009 From: HankPajari at aol.com (HankPajari at aol.com) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:00:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Message-ID: I have a 2000 Chrysler Town and Country with 126K on the clock. Bought it new and have had very few problems. It will hold a 35% CAP with all the support equipment. Drives like a car and has all the bells and whistles. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Thu Aug 13 15:00:41 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:00:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You don't sound very convincing! lol You could always put a soccer decal on the back! R From: jlkonn at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 17:45:09 -0500 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 15:10:53 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:10:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090813231052.F2F24115A2@bridi.netexpress.com> I have a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT -- it has EVERYTHING!!! Seats fold into the floorboards for totally flat hauling, will hold, as someone else said, about anything you need for flying. It'll take a 4'x8' sheet of plywood lying down, and you can close the tailgate. We really love it, and my wife says it is like driving a car -- really handles nicely... At 06:45 PM 8/13/2009, you wrote: >I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. >Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. >Yep, I'm really getting old. >If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. >Thanks! >JLK >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Aug 13 15:12:13 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:12:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB843@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> STRONGLY agree. I'm on my 5th since 1990. Currently have the Town and country with stow and go seats. Holds EVERYthing with easy. A simply rack holds 2 pattern planes off the ground with room for lots of stuff under. Pull the planes out and you can flip up the back seats without removing the rack. 35% imac plane and a pattern plane together no problem. Best part, 26mpg on the freeway, 20 city. Lots of power ports including a 110 AC outlet with a built in converter. It rocks. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thu Aug 13 19:00:06 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I have a 2000 Chrysler Town and Country with 126K on the clock. Bought it new and have had very few problems. It will hold a 35% CAP with all the support equipment. Drives like a car and has all the bells and whistles. ________________________________ From burtona at atmc.net Thu Aug 13 15:19:29 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:19:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB843@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB843@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <007b01ca1c6c$85b72b20$91258160$@net> Town & Country makes a nice plane carrier, but I'll never buy another vehicle from Chrysler or GM who are competing with other car companies with my tax money subsidizing them. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:06 PM To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle STRONGLY agree. I'm on my 5th since 1990. Currently have the Town and country with stow and go seats. Holds EVERYthing with easy. A simply rack holds 2 pattern planes off the ground with room for lots of stuff under. Pull the planes out and you can flip up the back seats without removing the rack. 35% imac plane and a pattern plane together no problem. Best part, 26mpg on the freeway, 20 city. Lots of power ports including a 110 AC outlet with a built in converter. It rocks. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thu Aug 13 19:00:06 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I have a 2000 Chrysler Town and Country with 126K on the clock. Bought it new and have had very few problems. It will hold a 35% CAP with all the support equipment. Drives like a car and has all the bells and whistles. ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jonlowe at aol.com Thu Aug 13 15:38:45 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:38:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBEA864ACDC152-150-2E19@WEBMAIL-MY18.sysops.aol.com> I have a Chrysler Town & Country, same as the Dodge Grand Caravan. One thing it has that no other minivan has is both middle and rear seats that fold flat into the floor. Lots of minivans have rear seats that fold flat, but only the Chrysler products have the middle seats that fold flat. Very handy, if you occasionally need to carry more than two passengers. I have a rack that I can partially disassemble to allow one or two seats to fold up without taking the whole thing out. Seats fold up in less than a minute. I have 82,000 miles on it (2005 model that I bought new), no problems, and I'd buy another one in a minute. It has four coathooks in the back that I use to hold garment bars to get the wings up close to the ceiling. I can haul 4 two meter planes if I pack carefully. A friend has the 2008 model which has the newest body style, and it is just as convenient, except he only has two coat hooks! They ride well, have great seats, and are comfortable on long contest trips. I get about 18-19 mpg city, and 23-24 on the road. One thing to buy is remote closing side and rear doors. I don't have them, and I don't know how many times I've loaded up ready to leave the field, only to realize that the sliding door on the passenger side is still open. PITA. I also have the 3.2 liter engine. I'd recommend the 3.8. A little more power on hills, and during the sweltering summer days. Actually gets the same or better mpg, since the final gear is a little longer. You can get every option known to man on it. Ones I'd recommend are the adjustable pedals if you have two drivers of considerably different heights, and traction control, since the front wheels can spin sometimes under hard acceleration on wet streets. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 5:45 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK = _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From dmclalin at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 15:45:44 2009 From: dmclalin at gmail.com (Daniel McLalin) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:45:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <8CBEA864ACDC152-150-2E19@WEBMAIL-MY18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBEA864ACDC152-150-2E19@WEBMAIL-MY18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <54f1efb30908131645g72553d26pc4ab46c08e2920de@mail.gmail.com> Dodge or Chrysler Minivan and make sure it has the stow n go feature all rear seats fold flat into the floor and leave you with a very flat cargo area. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Jon Lowe wrote: > I have a Chrysler Town & Country, same as the Dodge Grand Caravan. One > thing it has that no other minivan has is both middle and rear seats that > fold flat into the floor. Lots of minivans have rear seats that fold flat, > but only the Chrysler products have the middle seats that fold flat. Very > handy, if you occasionally need to carry more than two passengers. I have a > rack that I can partially disassemble to allow one or two seats to fold up > without taking the whole thing out. Seats fold up in less than a minute. > I have 82,000 miles on it (2005 model that I bought new), no problems, and > I'd buy another one in a minute. It has four coathooks in the back that I > use to hold garment bars to get the wings up close to the ceiling. I can > haul 4 two meter planes if I pack carefully. A friend has the 2008 model > which has the newest body style, and it is just as convenient, except he > only has two coat hooks! They ride well, have great seats, and are > comfortable on long contest trips. I get about 18-19 mpg city, and 23-24 on > the road. > > One thing to buy is remote closing side and rear doors. I don't have them, > and I don't know how many times I've loaded up ready to leave the field, > only to realize that the sliding door on the passenger side is still open. > PITA. I also have the 3.2 liter engine. I'd recommend the 3.8. A little > more power on hills, and during the sweltering summer days. Actually gets > the same or better mpg, since the final gear is a little longer. > > You can get every option known to man on it. Ones I'd recommend are the > adjustable pedals if you have two drivers of considerably different heights, > and traction control, since the front wheels can spin sometimes under hard > acceleration on wet streets. > > > Jon Lowe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Konneker > To: Discussion List > Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 5:45 pm > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. > > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > > Yep, I'm really getting old. > > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. > > Thanks! > > JLK > = > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From completemarine02 at sprintpcs.com Thu Aug 13 17:06:46 2009 From: completemarine02 at sprintpcs.com (Rusty Fried) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:06:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <003601ca1c7b$5c77f140$1567d3c0$@com> John I have a used 2006 Honda Odyssey touring addition van for sale. Rusty. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 3:45 PM To: Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffghughes at comcast.net Thu Aug 13 17:07:45 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:07:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <66668792.2323801250212065183.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Not much to add to the chrysler minivan thing, We are on our 5 th one. We put 180-200,000 miles on each one, I currently have a 2008 town and country completely pimped out with leather, satellite radio, folding seats, power doors, dvd, etc, etc. and it was cheaper than the one I bought back in 2000 after all the discounts they are giving. My last one had 184,000 miles and it still had the original spark plugs in it when I sold it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Konneker" To: "Discussion List" Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Thu Aug 13 17:10:47 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:10:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <8CBEA864ACDC152-150-2E19@WEBMAIL-MY18.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBEA864ACDC152-150-2E19@WEBMAIL-MY18.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBEA932431347A-5D4-2EE7@webmail-dh41.sysops.aol.com> Another thumbs up for the Chrysler Minivan. I bought my first in 1987 which lasted until 2000 and the second in 2003, one I'm driving now. 87000 miles and still rides excellent. I don't have the stow-away seats which came out in the following model year....wish I did. If you have kids that travel with you, the DVD player is a great feature. I have the 3.8 L and it is a strong set-up. My normal driving ( city and highway) gets me around 20mpg. Solid highway is 26mpg, and just under 500 mile tank range As much as I've enjoyed using mine, I think the Toyota Sienna is a little better made. The Sienna is in my future but only because I love their products. All other family cars are Toys MattK -----Original Message----- From: Jon Lowe <jonlowe at aol.com> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I have a Chrysler Town & Country, same as the Dodge Grand Caravan. One thing it has that no other minivan has is both middle and rear seats that fold flat into the floor. Lots of minivans have rear seats that fold flat, but only the Chrysler products have the middle seats that fold flat. Very handy, if you occasionally need to carry more than two passengers. I have a rack that I can partially disassemble to allow one or two seats to fold up without taking the whole thing out. Seats fold up in less than a minute. I have 82,000 miles on it (2005 model that I bought new), no problems, and I'd buy another one in a minute. It has four coathooks in the back that I use to hold garment bars to get the wings up close to the ceiling. I can haul 4 two meter planes if I pack carefully. A friend has the 2008 model which has the newest body style, and it is just as convenient, except he only has two coat hooks! They ride well, have great seats, and are comfortable on long contest trips. I get about 18-19 mpg city, and 23-24 on the road.? ? One thing to buy is remote closing side and rear doors. I don't have them, and I don't know how many times I've loaded up ready to leave the field, only to realize that the sliding door on the passenger side is still open. PITA. I also have the 3.2 liter engine. I'd recommend the 3.8. A little more power on hills, and during the sweltering summer days. Actually gets the same or better mpg, since the final gear is a little longer.? ? You can get every option known to man on it. Ones I'd recommend are the adjustable pedals if you have two drivers of considerably different heights, and traction control, since the front wheels can spin sometimes under hard acceleration on wet streets.? ? Jon Lowe? ? -----Original Message-----? From: John Konneker <jlkonn at hotmail.com>? To: Discussion List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>? Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 5:45 pm? Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu.? ? Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan.? ? Yep, I'm really getting old.? ? If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them.? ? Thanks!? ? JLK? =? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? ? ? ? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Thu Aug 13 17:16:00 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:16:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB846@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> You're only considering the Toyota because you haven't experienced the Stow and Go seating in the Chrysler. Its nothing short of awesome. The new ('08 or '09) town and country are extremely nice. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thu Aug 13 21:10:26 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Another thumbs up for the Chrysler Minivan. I bought my first in 1987 which lasted until 2000 and the second in 2003, one I'm driving now. 87000 miles and still rides excellent. I don't have the stow-away seats which came out in the following model year....wish I did. If you have kids that travel with you, the DVD player is a great feature. I have the 3.8 L and it is a strong set-up. My normal driving ( city and highway) gets me around 20mpg. Solid highway is 26mpg, and just under 500 mile tank range As much as I've enjoyed using mine, I think the Toyota Sienna is a little better made. The Sienna is in my future but only because I love their products. All other family cars are Toys MattK -----Original Message----- From: Jon Lowe To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I have a Chrysler Town & Country, same as the Dodge Grand Caravan. One thing it has that no other minivan has is both middle and rear seats that fold flat into the floor. Lots of minivans have rear seats that fold flat, but only the Chrysler products have the middle seats that fold flat. Very handy, if you occasionally need to carry more than two passengers. I have a rack that I can partially disassemble to allow one or two seats to fold up without taking the whole thing out. Seats fold up in less than a minute. I have 82,000 miles on it (2005 model that I bought new), no problems, and I'd buy another one in a minute. It has four coathooks in the back that I use to hold garment bars to get the wings up close to the ceiling. I can haul 4 two meter planes if I pack carefully. A friend has the 2008 model which has the newest body style, and it is just as convenient, except he only has two coat hooks! They ride well, have great seats, and are comfortable on long contest trips. I get about 18-19 mpg city, and 23-24 on the road. One thing to buy is remote closing side and rear doors. I don't have them, and I don't know how many times I've loaded up ready to leave the field, only to realize that the sliding door on the passenger side is still open. PITA. I also have the 3.2 liter engine. I'd recommend the 3.8. A little more power on hills, and during the sweltering summer days. Actually gets the same or better mpg, since the final gear is a little longer. You can get every option known to man on it. Ones I'd recommend are the adjustable pedals if you have two drivers of considerably different heights, and traction control, since the front wheels can spin sometimes under hard acceleration on wet streets. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thu, Aug 13, 2009 5:45 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK = _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 13 17:34:54 2009 From: flyinbill1 at bellsouth.net (William C. Harden) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 01:34:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I own a 2006 Town and Country mini-van and like many others have already stated, it is a great vehicle for hauling planes and support equipment. Bill _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 5:45 PM To: Discussion List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Thu Aug 13 21:48:59 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 05:48:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle References: Message-ID: <00b201ca1ca2$e95a0130$9501a8c0@GW7422> Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over the minivan stigma the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Fri Aug 14 00:57:44 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:57:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB843@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <202427.84307.qm@web1101.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Five since 1990?? Geez, if it won't last 15 years, I don't want it. :-) ? I have a full size 1994 Ford Club Wagon for sale. Been to many model airplane events, including the '95 Nats. Will carry two 33% Yaks without taking the seats out, can haul a 46% Ultimate with the seats out. :-) ? Bob R. --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: STRONGLY agree. I'm on my 5th since 1990. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schale at optonline.net Fri Aug 14 04:25:59 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:25:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <202427.84307.qm@web1101.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <202427.84307.qm@web1101.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A8557CF.7090101@optonline.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rickwallace45 at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 04:40:19 2009 From: rickwallace45 at gmail.com (richard wallace) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:40:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The Chrysler sounds good, but you might consider a Toyota (American made if that counts) Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model year). 168K since new on my '04 and it's been rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds everything. No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding rear seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a GREAT hidden storage area. On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, John Konneker wrote: > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > Yep, I'm *really* getting old. > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. > Thanks! > JLK > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 05:06:05 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:06:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> OK question. What would one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the Chryslers? Also what does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, Mike I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 Windstar. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace wrote: > From: richard wallace > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > might consider a Toyota (American made if that counts) > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model year). > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds everything. > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding rear > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a GREAT > hidden storage area. > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > John Konneker > wrote: > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > adieu. > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > Yep, I'm really getting old. > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate > hearing them. > > Thanks! > JLK > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From astafford at swtexas.net Fri Aug 14 05:17:56 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:17:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <04c601ca1ce1$49d86c20$dd894460$@net> GM makes a crossover which would work great. The Chevy traverse and the GMC Acadia both would work great. When dad was down here in January we went and looked at some cars as he was thinking of trading. He test drove the Traverse and when we got home we put my black magic in it. Seats fold down really easily and you can get 2 two meter ships in without any problems, Arch -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:06 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle OK question. What would one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the Chryslers? Also what does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, Mike I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 Windstar. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace wrote: > From: richard wallace > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > might consider a Toyota (American made if that counts) > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model year). > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds everything. > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding rear > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a GREAT > hidden storage area. > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > John Konneker > wrote: > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > adieu. > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > Yep, I'm really getting old. > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate > hearing them. > > Thanks! > JLK > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 14 05:19:29 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:19:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9196@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> When I was shopping for my most recent Minivan, only Honda and Chrysler had viable options. The Honda (I've had one Odyssey in the past) is a very nice vehicle and leases well due to it's high residual value. But for me the Stow and Go seating is a must. I originally got the Honda back in 2001 when it was the first to have a rear seat to fold in the floor and that was a HUGE value. When Chrysler had ALL the seats fold in the floor I was standing in line. That said, if you take adults on long trips, the Honda's back bucket seats (2nd Row) are FAR more comfortable than the Chrysler, but in my case, it's my kids that ride and they don't notice the difference. Like Jeff, I have a LOADED T&C and it's pretty amazing. Again, the Honda will lease better, the Chrysler is a better buy option. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:06 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle OK question. What would one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the Chryslers? Also what does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, Mike I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 Windstar. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace wrote: > From: richard wallace > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > might consider a Toyota (American made if that counts) > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model year). > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds everything. > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding rear > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a GREAT > hidden storage area. > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > John Konneker > wrote: > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > adieu. > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > Yep, I'm really getting old. > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate > hearing them. > > Thanks! > JLK > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/14/09 06:10:00 From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 05:25:57 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:25:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <04c601ca1ce1$49d86c20$dd894460$@net> Message-ID: <105550.85086.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Actually that sounds pretty good. I like the GM products I think they have come a long way with them. Thanks, Mike --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Archie Stafford wrote: > From: Archie Stafford > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 8:15 AM > GM makes a crossover which would work > great.? The Chevy traverse and the GMC > Acadia both would work great.? When dad was down here > in January we went and > looked at some cars as he was thinking of trading.? He > test drove the > Traverse and when we got home we put my black magic in > it.? Seats fold down > really easily and you can get 2 two meter ships in without > any problems, > > Arch > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:06 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > OK question. What would one expect to pay for a Toyota or > Honda van vs: the > Chryslers? Also what does GM make van wise that's decent > anymore? Thanks, > Mike > > I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 > Windstar. > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace > wrote: > > > From: richard wallace > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > > might consider a Toyota (American made if that > counts) > > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model > year). > > > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds > everything. > > > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding > rear > > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a GREAT > > hidden storage area. > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > > John Konneker > > wrote: > > > > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > > adieu. > > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > > Yep, I'm really getting old. > > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really > appreciate > > hearing them. > > > > Thanks! > > JLK > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From jeffghughes at comcast.net Fri Aug 14 05:34:46 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:34:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <00b201ca1ca2$e95a0130$9501a8c0@GW7422> Message-ID: <1302123061.29501250256885654.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :)? Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over?the minivan?stigma?the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Aug 14 05:43:18 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:43:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <1302123061.29501250256885654.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <78458.41628.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Watch out! This sounds like a good plan on the surface but she might interpret it as you wanting to have children (that's normally what people buy minivans for). Then?you'll be driving the minivan even when you don't want to and you probably won't be going to the flying field with it very much anymore. LOL ? I either drive the van or ride one of my Harleys to work during the week. There's no Stigma attached to me either. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/14/09, jeffghughes at comcast.net wrote: From: jeffghughes at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 9:34 AM #yiv548228102 p {margin:0;} What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :)? Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle #yiv548228102 .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TOP:0px;} #yiv548228102 { FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;} Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over?the minivan?stigma?the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) ? John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 05:46:07 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:46:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <736192.86698.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Ford F-250 Crew Cab with a cap on the bed. Two wooden closet rods across the bed with foam pipe insulation to carry the planes. The beds on F-250's are 6-3/4 feet, a pattern plane fits in lengthwise nicely. I could easily carry 4 planes. You don't have to be a packaging engineer to fit everything you (and 3 other full sized adults) might need. It does not need a safety rating, people get out of your way on the highway. Also works nicely to tow the high school marching band trailer full of instruments. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:06:00 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle OK question. What would one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the Chryslers? Also what does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, Mike I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 Windstar. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace wrote: > From: richard wallace > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > might consider a Toyota (American made if that counts) > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model year). > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds everything. > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding rear > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a GREAT > hidden storage area. > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > John Konneker > wrote: > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > adieu. > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > Yep, I'm really getting old. > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate > hearing them. > > Thanks! > JLK > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlkonn at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 05:49:00 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:49:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <1302123061.29501250256885654.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <00b201ca1ca2$e95a0130$9501a8c0@GW7422> <1302123061.29501250256885654.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Well guys... Looks like as usual I'm a day late and a dollar short. Seems like the "cash for clunkers" program has soaked up most of the dealer's inventory and along with it the deep discounts. Looks like this will last sometime beyond Labor Day. But I'm going to keep looking. JLK Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:34:45 +0000 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :) Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over the minivan stigma the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rharden1 at cox.net Fri Aug 14 05:57:20 2009 From: rharden1 at cox.net (Robert Harden) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:57:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: <00b201ca1ca2$e95a0130$9501a8c0@GW7422><1302123061.29501250256885654.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CE8B1FEF20846B5BFD356D209D66C9C@MargaretPC> I've read that if you can't find a car now you could order one and get a voucher from the dealer so you could still get the Cash for Clunkers discount. Has anyone done this to know that we can get a voucher? ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Well guys... Looks like as usual I'm a day late and a dollar short. Seems like the "cash for clunkers" program has soaked up most of the dealer's inventory and along with it the deep discounts. Looks like this will last sometime beyond Labor Day. But I'm going to keep looking. JLK ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:34:45 +0000 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :) Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over the minivan stigma the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 06:04:21 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 14:04:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <4CE8B1FEF20846B5BFD356D209D66C9C@MargaretPC> References: <00b201ca1ca2$e95a0130$9501a8c0@GW7422><1302123061.29501250256885654.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <4CE8B1FEF20846B5BFD356D209D66C9C@MargaretPC> Message-ID: I don't have a clunker to trade... I said trade...not that I didn't own one! :-) I have a std cab, 2wd, short wheelbase, V6 F-150 pickup. With the factory wheels, tonneau cover and tubular side steps it looks really good. Oh and it's red. It has over 100,000 miles on it and the book is quite a bit under the $4500 CFC value. I took it to a quick lube place yesterday. You know where they try to sell you everything from a brake flush to nitrogen in your tires. When I got out I told them don't try to sell me nothin'...It may be a cash for clunker. I thought I was going to have to fight my way out of the place. The used car guy next door even came over begging me to sell it to him! Figures, for the first time in my life I have a desirable trade and it's probably #3 down the list for replacement. Going to have to buy a vehicle for oldest daughter this year and of course then there's the Expedition I'm really wanting to get rid of. Even when I told all these guys this they still would hardly let me drive off. Oh well.. JLK From: rharden1 at cox.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:57:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I've read that if you can't find a car now you could order one and get a voucher from the dealer so you could still get the Cash for Clunkers discount. Has anyone done this to know that we can get a voucher? ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Well guys... Looks like as usual I'm a day late and a dollar short. Seems like the "cash for clunkers" program has soaked up most of the dealer's inventory and along with it the deep discounts. Looks like this will last sometime beyond Labor Day. But I'm going to keep looking. JLK Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:34:45 +0000 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :) Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over the minivan stigma the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Fri Aug 14 07:13:23 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:13:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <794465.57960.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090814151323.50DF8115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Toyota and Honda(?) may be American assembled, but the corporate profits go straight to Tokyo -- I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 classic, restored, but that's the ONLY Japanese or Korean car I will EVER own or drive...that includes rentals, too!!! At 09:06 AM 8/14/2009, you wrote: > OK question. What would one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda > van vs: the Chryslers? Also what does GM make van wise that's > decent anymore? Thanks, Mike > > I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 Windstar. > >--- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace wrote: > > > From: richard wallace > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > > might consider a Toyota (American made if that counts) > > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model year). > > > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds everything. > > > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding rear > > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a GREAT > > hidden storage area. > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > > John Konneker > > wrote: > > > > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > > adieu. > > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > > Yep, I'm really getting old. > > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate > > hearing them. > > > > Thanks! > > JLK > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Fri Aug 14 07:17:35 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:17:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've enjoyed following this discussion. I can relate to the quick lube story. I went looking for a replacement F-150 and as you found no suitable 09 inventory here in the northwest, and had to order a 2010. It should be here early next month. A ridiculous amount of money but I guess if I don't spend it someone else will. I could maybe look at it as an inflation hedge. Jim Hiller -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 7:04 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I don't have a clunker to trade... I said trade...not that I didn't own one! :-) I have a std cab, 2wd, short wheelbase, V6 F-150 pickup. With the factory wheels, tonneau cover and tubular side steps it looks really good. Oh and it's red. It has over 100,000 miles on it and the book is quite a bit under the $4500 CFC value. I took it to a quick lube place yesterday. You know where they try to sell you everything from a brake flush to nitrogen in your tires. When I got out I told them don't try to sell me nothin'...It may be a cash for clunker. I thought I was going to have to fight my way out of the place. The used car guy next door even came over begging me to sell it to him! Figures, for the first time in my life I have a desirable trade and it's probably #3 down the list for replacement. Going to have to buy a vehicle for oldest daughter this year and of course then there's the Expedition I'm really wanting to get rid of. Even when I told all these guys this they still would hardly let me drive off. Oh well.. JLK _____ From: rharden1 at cox.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:57:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I've read that if you can't find a car now you could order one and get a voucher from the dealer so you could still get the Cash for Clunkers discount. Has anyone done this to know that we can get a voucher? ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Well guys... Looks like as usual I'm a day late and a dollar short. Seems like the "cash for clunkers" program has soaked up most of the dealer's inventory and along with it the deep discounts. Looks like this will last sometime beyond Labor Day. But I'm going to keep looking. JLK _____ Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:34:45 +0000 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :) Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over the minivan stigma the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Fri Aug 14 07:34:02 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:34:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <623477.4346.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Same here. My old '94 Ford van qualifies for the CFC, but it is still in great shape and would be a great vehicle for someone. I just had all the belts/hoses replaced, and had the exhaust manifold gaskets replaced. I'm not going to send it to the crusher. But, it is for sale since I bought a slightly used Chevy 2500 HD diesel pickup to replace it. The Chevy will pull a small trailer at almost the same mpg I was getting with the van by itself. ? ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, John Konneker wrote: From: John Konneker Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "Discussion List" Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 11:04 AM #yiv114663467 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv114663467 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} I don't have a clunker to trade... I said trade...not that I didn't?own one! :-) I have a std cab, 2wd, short wheelbase, V6 F-150 pickup.? With the factory wheels, tonneau cover and?tubular side steps it looks really good.? Oh and it's red.? It has over 100,000 miles on it and the book is?quite a bit?under the $4500 CFC value.? I took?it to a quick lube place yesterday.? You know where they try to sell you everything from a brake flush to nitrogen in?your tires.? When I got out I told them don't try to sell me nothin'...It may be a cash for clunker. I thought I was going to have to fight my way out of the place.? The?used car guy next door even came over begging me to sell it to him! Figures, for the first time in my life?I have a desirable trade and it's probably #3 down the list for replacement.? Going to have to buy a vehicle for oldest daughter this?year and of course then there's the Expedition I'm really wanting to get rid of. Even when I told all these guys this they still would hardly let me drive off. Oh well.. JLK ? From: rharden1 at cox.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 08:57:23 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle #yiv114663467 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-bottom:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-right:0px;padding-top:0px;} #yiv114663467 .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10pt;} I've read that if you can't find a car now you could order one and get a voucher from the dealer so you could still get the Cash for Clunkers discount. Has anyone done this to know that we can get a voucher? ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Well guys... Looks like as usual I'm a day late and a dollar short. Seems like the "cash for clunkers" program?has soaked up most of the dealer's inventory and along with it the deep discounts. Looks like this will last sometime beyond Labor Day. But I'm going to keep looking. JLK ? Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:34:45 +0000 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle #yiv114663467 .ExternalClass p {} What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :)? Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle #yiv114663467 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} #yiv114663467 .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over?the minivan?stigma?the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) ? John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Fri Aug 14 09:00:16 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:00:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab Message-ID: I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and stronger now and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too loose and hunt or do they just not work? What do you think? Jim Hiller From vanputte at cox.net Fri Aug 14 09:05:39 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:05:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8EA216A9-37FB-44BA-9C1E-F421B8164B41@cox.net> I was faced with this problem many years ago when I build a canard (tail-first) airplane with a full flying stab. I solved it by pivoting the stab at the aerodynamic center of the stab, to minimize/ eliminate moment change with deflection of the stab. Then I spring loaded the stab with a soft helical spring in one direction, so the stab, in effect, had no "backlash". Ron VP On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:00 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the > feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and > stronger now > and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too > loose and > hunt or do they just not work? > What do you think? > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From duane.e.beck at comcast.net Fri Aug 14 09:11:41 2009 From: duane.e.beck at comcast.net (Duane Beck) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:11:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: <8EA216A9-37FB-44BA-9C1E-F421B8164B41@cox.net> Message-ID: <127623662.3845811250269900655.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> What prevented aerodynamic forces from pushing against the spring and moving the stab away from the desired position? Duane > From: "Ron Van Putte" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:05:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab > > I was faced with this problem many years ago when I build a canard ? > (tail-first) airplane with a full flying stab. ?I solved it by ? > pivoting the stab at the aerodynamic center of the stab, to minimize/ > eliminate moment change with deflection of the stab. ?Then I spring ? > loaded the stab with a soft helical spring in one direction, so the ? > stab, in effect, had no "backlash". > Ron VP From kvelez at rochester.rr.com Fri Aug 14 09:20:00 2009 From: kvelez at rochester.rr.com (Ken Velez) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:20:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] CA Models Wing Set In-Reply-To: <127623662.3845811250269900655.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <568D16F2FC354869850DC1972553ACEC@KEN> Hello all, Looking for a used or new wing set for a CA Models Eclipse or Genesis. If any one has a set and will like to part with it please contact me off list at kvelez at rochester.rr.com Thanks. Ken From jnhiller at earthlink.net Fri Aug 14 09:28:28 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:28:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: <8EA216A9-37FB-44BA-9C1E-F421B8164B41@cox.net> Message-ID: Yes Ron I'm aware of pivoting on the aerodynamic center. I had thoughts of loading two servos against each other to eliminate backlash if it was a problem. Maybe I need to breadboard it and see what I like and don't like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:06 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab I was faced with this problem many years ago when I build a canard (tail-first) airplane with a full flying stab. I solved it by pivoting the stab at the aerodynamic center of the stab, to minimize/ eliminate moment change with deflection of the stab. Then I spring loaded the stab with a soft helical spring in one direction, so the stab, in effect, had no "backlash". Ron VP On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:00 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the > feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and > stronger now > and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too > loose and > hunt or do they just not work? > What do you think? > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From glmiller3 at suddenlink.net Fri Aug 14 09:29:15 2009 From: glmiller3 at suddenlink.net (glmiller3 at suddenlink.net) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:29:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090814122913.RR89O.399859.root@Web01> I remember a little experimentation with flying stabs in the late 70's- I bet Jon Lowe's dad can fill us in on why it wasn't useful enough to become the standard. G ---- J N Hiller wrote: ============= I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and stronger now and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too loose and hunt or do they just not work? What do you think? Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 14 09:34:25 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:34:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB84A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I can only say I never liked flying them. Tried it once back in the early mid 90's and it felt horrible. Like you had 80% expo. I'd pull and pull and pull and get almost nothing and then it would suddenly "bite" at a certain deflection. Its been a long time though, and I don't know how much of that was blow back waiting to get into the power curve of the servo. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 14 13:28:43 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab Yes Ron I'm aware of pivoting on the aerodynamic center. I had thoughts of loading two servos against each other to eliminate backlash if it was a problem. Maybe I need to breadboard it and see what I like and don't like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 10:06 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab I was faced with this problem many years ago when I build a canard (tail-first) airplane with a full flying stab. I solved it by pivoting the stab at the aerodynamic center of the stab, to minimize/ eliminate moment change with deflection of the stab. Then I spring loaded the stab with a soft helical spring in one direction, so the stab, in effect, had no "backlash". Ron VP On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:00 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the > feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and > stronger now > and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too > loose and > hunt or do they just not work? > What do you think? > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/14/09 06:10:00 From vanputte at cox.net Fri Aug 14 09:42:14 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:42:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: <127623662.3845811250269900655.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <127623662.3845811250269900655.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3CE7A8C5-02F5-4052-892D-B8B32403957E@cox.net> If you pivot a surface at the aerodynamic center of the surface, there is no additional pitching moment generated on the surface as it is pivoted. There is an inherent zero-lift pitching moment present as a result of the shape of the surface, but you can always build a symmetric surface, which has no inherent pitching moment at zero lift. Ron VP On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:11 PM, Duane Beck wrote: > What prevented aerodynamic forces from pushing against the spring > and moving the stab away from the desired position? > > Duane > >> From: "Ron Van Putte" >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:05:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab >> >> I was faced with this problem many years ago when I build a canard >> (tail-first) airplane with a full flying stab. I solved it by >> pivoting the stab at the aerodynamic center of the stab, to minimize/ >> eliminate moment change with deflection of the stab. Then I spring >> loaded the stab with a soft helical spring in one direction, so the >> stab, in effect, had no "backlash". >> Ron VP > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jeffghughes at comcast.net Fri Aug 14 09:43:18 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:43:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <78458.41628.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1467411537.134901250271793149.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Worse yet, my motorcycle is a 1978 BMW 800, no stigma attached to that either!. Luckily my kids are all grown up, no chance of more. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:43:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Watch out! This sounds like a good plan on the surface but she might interpret it as you wanting to have children (that's normally what people buy minivans for). Then?you'll be driving the minivan even when you don't want to and you probably won't be going to the flying field with it very much anymore. LOL I either drive the van or ride one of my Harleys to work during the week. There's no Stigma attached to me either. :) John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/14/09, jeffghughes at comcast.net wrote: From: jeffghughes at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 9:34 AM What I've done is convinced my wife she needs a minivan, then I just borrow it. That way there's no Stigma attached to me :)? Of course, I drive a 99 Ford Ranger short bed which is not much of a step up from a minivan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:48:53 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Dodge / Chrysler with Stow-N-Go seating. Plenty of room, drives like a car, gets great mileage and it's comfortable on long trips. I hated minivans until I bought my '05 Grand Caravan. Don't worry, you'll get over?the minivan?stigma?the first time you pack 4 airplanes in it. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: John Konneker To: Discussion List Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 6:45 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Fri Aug 14 09:45:42 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:45:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: <20090814122913.RR89O.399859.root@Web01> References: <20090814122913.RR89O.399859.root@Web01> Message-ID: <9319557C-DE15-46B4-85ED-12B60D8F824D@cox.net> Interesting you should mention Don Lowe. I gave my canard airplane with a flying stab to Don when I left Wright-Patterson AFB in 1969 so he could experiment with it in his mini RPV group there, using an electrostatic autopilot . Ron On Aug 14, 2009, at 12:29 PM, wrote: > I remember a little experimentation with flying stabs in the late > 70's- I bet Jon Lowe's dad can fill us in on why it wasn't useful > enough to become the standard. > > G > ---- J N Hiller wrote: > > ============= > I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the > feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and > stronger now > and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too > loose and > hunt or do they just not work? > What do you think? > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From schale at optonline.net Fri Aug 14 10:19:24 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:19:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A85AAAA.7050508@optonline.net> I remember Stan Rautkis's Brushfire with a flying stab. Geizendanner mechanism I believe. Coolest thing when the stab let loose it was like a i mid air :) But nothing else was around. J N Hiller wrote: > I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the > feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and stronger now > and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too loose and > hunt or do they just not work? > What do you think? > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 10:33:55 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 18:33:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <20090814151323.50DF8115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <560442.2488.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > From: Phil Spelt > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 10:13 AM > > > Toyota and Honda(?) may be American > assembled, but the > corporate profits go straight to Tokyo -- I have an '83 > Mazda RX-7 > classic, restored, but that's the ONLY Japanese or > Korean car I will EVER > own or drive...that includes rentals, too!!! > > > At 09:06 AM 8/14/2009, you wrote: > > ?OK > question. What would > one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the > Chryslers? Also what > does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, > Mike > > > ?I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 > Windstar. > > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace > > wrote: > > > > From: richard wallace > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > > > might consider a Toyota (American made if that > counts) > > > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model > year). > > > > > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > > > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds > everything. > > > > > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding > rear > > > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a > GREAT > > > hidden storage area. > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > > > John Konneker > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > > > adieu. > > > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > > > Yep, I'm really getting old. > > > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really > appreciate > > > hearing them. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > JLK > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ????? > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > --> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > targets. > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past President, > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > ?????? URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > ????? My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > ????? (865) 435-1476 v? > (865) 604-0541 > c > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tretas513 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 11:37:02 2009 From: tretas513 at yahoo.com (Tommy Scarmardo) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:37:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <34567.38792.qm@web111504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Bob Violett, of BVM Jets, back in the "old days" had a successful pattern ship called the Viper that had a full flying stab. The pivot was toward the front of the stab about a third of the way back and the tube that moved the stab was towards the rear. I never heard why?he quit using it, maybe someone who knows him can ask. ? tommy s --- On Fri, 8/14/09, J N Hiller wrote: From: J N Hiller Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 12:00 PM I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and stronger now and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too loose and hunt or do they just not work? What do you think? Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 14 12:13:59 2009 From: homeremodeling2003 at yahoo.com (Chris Fitzsimmons) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:13:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] CA Models Wing Set Message-ID: <168853.85107.qm@web33002.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a set of used eclise wings I could send ya. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 14, 2009, at 10:20 AM, "Ken Velez" wrote: Hello all, Looking for a used or new wing set for a CA Models Eclipse or Genesis. If any one has a set and will like to part with it please contact me off list at kvelez at rochester.rr.com Thanks. Ken _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jjvoth at mtelco.net Fri Aug 14 12:17:58 2009 From: jjvoth at mtelco.net (Jerry Voth) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:17:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: <34567.38792.qm@web111504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <34567.38792.qm@web111504.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I used a flying stab back in the late seventies and I thought it worked really well, so I installed one on my next pattern plane and it worked well until it got going a little too fast in a split S and it fluttered off instantly. I didn't even have time to throttle back before it hit. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tommy Scarmardo To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab Bob Violett, of BVM Jets, back in the "old days" had a successful pattern ship called the Viper that had a full flying stab. The pivot was toward the front of the stab about a third of the way back and the tube that moved the stab was towards the rear. I never heard why he quit using it, maybe someone who knows him can ask. tommy s --- On Fri, 8/14/09, J N Hiller wrote: From: J N Hiller Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 12:00 PM I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and stronger now and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too loose and hunt or do they just not work? What do you think? Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmclalin at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 13:25:27 2009 From: dmclalin at gmail.com (Daniel McLalin) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:25:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <560442.2488.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090814151323.50DF8115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> <560442.2488.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54f1efb30908141425s263b67c1r1e9574d4c94da430@mail.gmail.com> I also support my advice on getting a Chrysler/Dodge Minivan with stow and go seats because right now everyone is going for better gas mileage and the minivans will give you lower mileage and lower prices. Hey the Dodge/Chrysler Minivans get 24+ mpg. Ask Mike Darr, he swears by them On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:33 PM, mike mueller wrote: > Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of > muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US > employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and > Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently > with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American > companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now > owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list > goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 10:13 AM > > > > > > Toyota and Honda(?) may be American > > assembled, but the > > corporate profits go straight to Tokyo -- I have an '83 > > Mazda RX-7 > > classic, restored, but that's the ONLY Japanese or > > Korean car I will EVER > > own or drive...that includes rentals, too!!! > > > > > > At 09:06 AM 8/14/2009, you wrote: > > > > OK > > question. What would > > one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the > > Chryslers? Also what > > does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, > > Mike > > > > > > I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 > > Windstar. > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: richard wallace > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > > > > > might consider a Toyota (American made if that > > counts) > > > > > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model > > year). > > > > > > > > > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > > > > > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds > > everything. > > > > > > > > > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding > > rear > > > > > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a > > GREAT > > > > > hidden storage area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > > > > > John Konneker > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > > > > > adieu. > > > > > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > > > > > Yep, I'm really getting old. > > > > > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really > > appreciate > > > > > hearing them. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > JLK > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v > > (865) 604-0541 > > c > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Fri Aug 14 16:35:08 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:35:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <560442.2488.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <912174.31515.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember). ? I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world. ? It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too. ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller wrote: Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 14 16:42:34 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:42:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle References: <20090813231052.F2F24115A2@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: I also have a Dodge minivan with stow and go. Holds more airplane stuff and airplanes than my old Chevvy full-size van conversion. Much more flyer-friendly, and drives more like a luxury car, than a truck. Which, of course, my old van conversion was--simply, a converted truck. As far as holding a sheet of plywood lying down, I really can't say. I've not ever been lying down in the thing. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 7:11 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I have a 2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT -- it has EVERYTHING!!! Seats fold into the floorboards for totally flat hauling, will hold, as someone else said, about anything you need for flying. It'll take a 4'x8' sheet of plywood lying down, and you can close the tailgate. We really love it, and my wife says it is like driving a car -- really handles nicely... At 06:45 PM 8/13/2009, you wrote: I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition adieu. Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. Yep, I'm really getting old. If anyone has any recommendations I'd really appreciate hearing them. Thanks! JLK _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Fri Aug 14 16:47:57 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:47:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: <127623662.3845811250269900655.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <127623662.3845811250269900655.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CBEB59230CF80D-13D0-165A@WEBMAIL-DY08.sysops.aol.com> Pivoting at the stab AC. MattK -----Original Message----- From: Duane Beck <duane.e.beck at comcast.net> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 1:11 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab What prevented aerodynamic forces from pushing against the spring and moving the stab away from the desired position? Duane > From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net> > To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:05:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab > > I was faced with this problem many years ago when I build a canard ? > (tail-first) airplane with a full flying stab. ?I solved it by ? > pivoting the stab at the aerodynamic center of the stab, to minimize/ > eliminate moment change with deflection of the stab. ?Then I spring ? > loaded the stab with a soft helical spring in one direction, so the ? > stab, in effect, had no "backlash". > Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailma n/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Fri Aug 14 17:02:49 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:02:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBEB5B35B8F102-13D0-16CD@WEBMAIL-DY08.sysops.aol.com> Jim, Pivoting at the AC, statically balancing at least 70% (saves some weight in the tail) and? driving it at maximum mechanical advantage (practical that is) should give good results from physics point of view. Try two smaller servos driving each half and mount them as far back (either in the stab or fuse) as practical. Push rods normal to the stab MattK --- On Fri, 8/14/09, J N Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net> wrote: From: J N Hiller <jnhiller at earthlink.net> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 12:00 PM I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and stronger now and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too loose and hunt or do they just not work? What do you think? Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cjm767driver at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 17:12:07 2009 From: cjm767driver at hotmail.com (Chris) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:12:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Announcement Message-ID: Guys, Sorry if this is not appropriate for the list but things are leaking out and I am getting a bunch of emails and I might as well answer them all at once here. Yes, I now have arrangements with the following companies and expect inventory from all of them by mid-late Sept. Please email me off-list and I can give you any specific details. A new web site is in the works. Due Sept/ Oct ZN Line (Xigris and Axial kits) Plettenberg 30-10 EVO motors RASA carbon fiber props Axi 5325/24 motors By special order: Jeti Shulze Kontronik Chris From schale at optonline.net Fri Aug 14 17:25:18 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:25:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A860E7D.1080204@optonline.net> You are really a glutton for punishment :) Stu Chris wrote: > Guys, Sorry if this is not appropriate for the list but things are > leaking out and I am getting a bunch of emails and I might as well > answer them all at once here. Yes, I now have arrangements with the > following companies and expect inventory from all of them by mid-late > Sept. Please email me off-list and I can give you any specific > details. A new web site is in the works. > Due Sept/ Oct > ZN Line (Xigris and Axial kits) > Plettenberg 30-10 EVO motors > RASA carbon fiber props > Axi 5325/24 motors > > By special order: > Jeti > Shulze > Kontronik > > > Chris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > From vanputte at cox.net Fri Aug 14 17:34:30 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:34:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Announcement In-Reply-To: <4A860E7D.1080204@optonline.net> References: <4A860E7D.1080204@optonline.net> Message-ID: <758256D6-1D90-45F7-8B3B-9B65A77A11A2@cox.net> This is interesting. I got Stu's response to Chris' Announcement, but I never got Chris' Announcement. Ron VP On Aug 14, 2009, at 8:25 PM, Stuart Chale wrote: > You are really a glutton for punishment :) > Stu > > Chris wrote: >> Guys, Sorry if this is not appropriate for the list but things are >> leaking out and I am getting a bunch of emails and I might as well >> answer them all at once here. Yes, I now have arrangements with >> the following companies and expect inventory from all of them by >> mid-late Sept. Please email me off-list and I can give you any >> specific details. A new web site is in the works. >> Due Sept/ Oct >> ZN Line (Xigris and Axial kits) >> Plettenberg 30-10 EVO motors >> RASA carbon fiber props >> Axi 5325/24 motors >> >> By special order: >> Jeti >> Shulze >> Kontronik >> >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Fri Aug 14 17:45:18 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:45:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation Message-ID: I was scanning the Nats history on Don Ramsey's web site and came across an interesting situation. In 1998 Peter Collinson won the Intermediate class. The interesting situation was that Tom Weedon was 16th and Andrew Jesky was 21st. Ron VP From jnhiller at earthlink.net Fri Aug 14 18:12:01 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 02:12:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab In-Reply-To: <8CBEB5B35B8F102-13D0-16CD@WEBMAIL-DY08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I was thinking of using a fixed pivot tube and rotate each half taking advantage of the longer bearing surface using a full pull-pull cable control from a forward bell-crank similar to my present elevator control system. I think I will start detailing the construction and see how it works out. It's not a lot different than an adjustable stab but the devil is always in the details. Before using CAD I sometimes erased holes in the paper before committing. I don't know how much deflection will be needed. The glider guys say not much, which offers considerable rotational reduction from the servo reducing the effect of gear-train backlash also. Might be worth a try. A couple tabs on the stab root rib could fix the stabs in place and elevators come right off with a pass through the table saw. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 6:03 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab Jim, Pivoting at the AC, statically balancing at least 70% (saves some weight in the tail) and driving it at maximum mechanical advantage (practical that is) should give good results from physics point of view. Try two smaller servos driving each half and mount them as far back (either in the stab or fuse) as practical. Push rods normal to the stab MattK --- On Fri, 8/14/09, J N Hiller < jnhiller at earthlink.net > wrote: From: J N Hiller < jnhiller at earthlink.net > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Full Flying Stab To: "NSRCA Mailing List" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 12:00 PM I'm working on a new pattern design and would like some input on the feasibility of using a full flying stab. Servos are tighter and stronger now and the travel curve is more adjustable. Would it still be too loose and hunt or do they just not work? What do you think? Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Fri Aug 14 20:54:22 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:54:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBEB7B8E1BD795-E88-66C@WEBMAIL-DZ06.sysops.aol.com> We all sucked at one point....some of us still do and I talk from experience(VBG) -----Original Message----- From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Fri, Aug 14, 2009 9:45 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation I was scanning the Nats history on Don Ramsey's web site and came across an interesting situation. In 1998 Peter Collinson won the Intermediate class. The interesting situation was that Tom Weedon was 16th and Andrew Jesky was 21st.? ? Ron VP? _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 05:22:34 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 13:22:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <124640.95317.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Andrew started flying pattern in 1996, I believe 1998 was his first NATS. I could offer him advice then. Things are a little different now. :) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:45:14 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation I was scanning the Nats history on Don Ramsey's web site and came across an interesting situation. In 1998 Peter Collinson won the Intermediate class. The interesting situation was that Tom Weedon was 16th and Andrew Jesky was 21st. Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Sat Aug 15 06:25:28 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 14:25:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <912174.31515.qm@web1106.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9954ED0B2F294238B8D6496F0082569E@jaysdesktop> There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 USA content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember). I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world. It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too. Bob R. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller wrote: Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffghughes at comcast.net Sat Aug 15 07:12:48 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 15:12:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <9954ED0B2F294238B8D6496F0082569E@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <71260130.364661250349167785.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> An automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a car, all the money is in the components and all the car manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost producer, which right now is places like china, india and brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and push rods and valves ?from China. I started at GM in '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where they built components down south (non union) and then things got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil getting into the act, then finally india and china. I currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car companies? brought their supply base over? here (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US content than GM or Ford. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 USA ?content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember). I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world. It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too. Bob R. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller wrote: Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 08:01:10 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:01:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <71260130.364661250349167785.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <632579.95072.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> OK so how do we know that buying Fords and GM's helps the US economy anymore than a Honda, Nissan or a Toyota really? It's more complicated than just associating a Name brand to a particular country anymore. Probably best to look at that american content list and see how it benefits the US workers the best. Thanks Jeff that;s good info. Mike --- On Sat, 8/15/09, jeffghughes at comcast.net wrote: > From: jeffghughes at comcast.net > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 10:12 AM > #yiv1168904956 p > {margin:0;}An > automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a > car, all the money is in the components and all the car > manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost > producer, which right now is places like china, india and > brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and > push rods and valves?from China. I started at GM in > '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where > they built components down south (non union) and then things > got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move > to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil > getting into the act, then finally india and china. I > currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter > blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be > machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car > companies?brought their supply base over? here > (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it > wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US > content than GM or Ford. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay Marshall" > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 > US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > > > There > was an article published recently concerning the top 10 > USA > ?content automobiles. Toyota was > three of them as I recall. > ? > > Jay Marshall > > -----Original > Message----- > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob > Richards > Sent: Friday, > August 14, > 2009 > 8:35 > PM > To: > General pattern > discussion > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > ? > > > > > > My wife and I bought > a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember > looking at the information about where it was built. It was > something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, > which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or > Japan (don't remember). > > ? > > I did some EMC > testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. > Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in > Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, > if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the > world. > > ? > > It wasn't too > long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say > their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but > I'll bet that has changed, too. > > ? > > Bob > R. > > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, > mike mueller > wrote: > > ? > > Phil don't you think that the > nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean > Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US > employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars > in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own > car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM > debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American > companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. > Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is > 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not > usre what makes sense anymore. > Mike > ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From rcmaster199 at aol.com Sat Aug 15 08:54:25 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:54:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <632579.95072.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <632579.95072.qm@web51010.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBEBE022FA8A37-13C8-2258@WEBMAIL-DZ38.sysops.aol.com> Global economy and Global marketplace have pretty much come of age. The reason I prefer Toyotas is because of their execution....attention to detail during manufacturing. Engineering is very good at pretty much all top auto makers. Execution and supply chain quality control are the main areas of difference FWIW2U MattK -----Original Message----- From: mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 12:01 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle OK so how do we know that buying Fords and GM's helps the US economy anymore than a Honda, Nissan or a Toyota really? It's more complicated than just associating a Name brand to a particular country anymore. Probably best to look at that american content list and see how it benefits the US workers the best. Thanks Jeff that;s good info. Mike --- On Sat, 8/15/09, jeffghughes at comcast.net <jeffghughes at comcast.net> wrote: > From: jeffghughes at comcast.net <jeffghughes at comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 10:12 AM > #yiv1168904956 p > {margin:0;}An > automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a > car, all the money is in the components and all the car > manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost > producer, which right now is places like china, india and &g t; brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and > push rods and valves?from China. I started at GM in > '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where > they built components down south (non union) and then things > got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move > to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil > getting into the act, then finally india and china. I > currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter > blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be > machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car > companies?brought their supply base over? here > (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it > wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US > content than GM or Ford. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot at sc.rr.com> > To: "General pattern discussion" > <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsr ca.org> > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05 :00 > US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > > > There > was an article published recently concerning the top 10 > USA > ?content automobiles. Toyota was > three of them as I recall. > ? > > Jay Marshall > > -----Original > Message----- > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob > Richards > Sent: Friday, > August 14, > 2009 > 8:35 > PM > To: > General pattern > discussion > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > ? > > > > > > My wife and I bought > a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember > looking at the information about where it was built. It was > something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, > which had the same drive train and engin e, was 65% Asia or > Japan (don't remember). > > ? > > I did some EMC > testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. > Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in > Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, > if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the > world. > > ? > > It wasn't too > long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say > their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but > I'll bet that has changed, too. > > ? > > Bob > R. > > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, > mike mueller <mups1953 at yahoo.com> > wrote: > > ? > > Phil don't you think that the > nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean > Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US > employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars > in Mexico and Cana da and South America. Stock holders own > car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM > debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American > companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. > Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is > 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not > usre what makes sense anymore. > Mike > ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geobet4 at verizon.net Sat Aug 15 09:17:58 2009 From: geobet4 at verizon.net (GEORGE KENNIE) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:17:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Announcement References: Message-ID: <13E8F0894B2548659E5586A6E082675D@george15cf36d8> Way to go Chris !!!!!!!!!!!!! Could we be on the cusp of the next dynamic major supplier to the retail market ? How exciting ! G. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris" To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Announcement > Guys, Sorry if this is not appropriate for the list but things are leaking > out and I am getting a bunch of emails and I might as well answer them all > at once here. Yes, I now have arrangements with the following companies > and expect inventory from all of them by mid-late Sept. Please email me > off-list and I can give you any specific details. A new web site is in the > works. > Due Sept/ Oct > ZN Line (Xigris and Axial kits) > Plettenberg 30-10 EVO motors > RASA carbon fiber props > Axi 5325/24 motors > > By special order: > Jeti > Shulze > Kontronik > > > Chris > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jeffghughes at comcast.net Sat Aug 15 10:13:35 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 18:13:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <8CBEBE022FA8A37-13C8-2258@WEBMAIL-DZ38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <1053127470.405091250360014063.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> matt, 5 or 10 years ago I would have agreed with you. Who knows now. like I said before, all the automakers use the same supply base for components and I've been to enough suppliers to know, they set up their processes for their most demanding customer and give the same quality to their least demanding customer, cause it's too confusing for them to have multi levels of quality systems. One of the downsides of globalization (or upside) is the homogenization of product. It gets harder and harder to differentiate products when all the auto companies are buying product from the same suppliers. When car companies were vertically integrated you saw engineering and quality differences as they came up with their own ideas. Now if ?Eaton (for example) comes up with a new valve steel, they are selling it to?anybody who'll buy. ? ?Nothing wrong with Toyotas, they make nice products. but anymore,?I really don't see the difference. I've got a 99 ford ranger that since new I've only changed the oil, 2 batteries and ?2 sets of tires (125,000 miles). . Still looks new (and it's not garaged) and everything works. Never been tuned? up or in the shop for any reason.?I actually feel a little guilty that I don't change the transmission fluid or coolant or something. ?Though to support your claim, we have a joint venture with Komatsu, and those Japanese Engineers can beat a?quality issue ?to death sometimes. W hich probably explains the? following of their pattern planes . But they also have a bad habit of not owning up to problems? if it's an internal problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: rcmaster199 at aol.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 12:54:06 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Global economy and Global marketplace have pretty much come of age. The reason I prefer Toyotas is because of their execution....attention to detail during manufacturing. Engineering is very good at pretty much all top auto makers. Execution and supply chain quality control are the main areas of difference FWIW2U MattK -----Original Message----- From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sat, Aug 15, 2009 12:01 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle OK so how do we know that buying Fords and GM's helps the US economy anymore than a Honda, Nissan or a Toyota really? It's more complicated than just associating a Name brand to a particular country anymore. Probably best to look at that american content list and see how it benefits the US workers the best. Thanks Jeff that;s good info. Mike --- On Sat, 8/15/09, jeffghughes at comcast.net < jeffghughes at comcast.net > wrote: > From: jeffghughes at comcast.net < jeffghughes at comcast.net > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > T o: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Saturday, August 15, 2009, 10:12 AM > #yiv1168904956 p > {margin:0;}An > automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a > car, all the money is in the components and all the car > manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost > producer, which right now is places like china, india and > brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and > push rods and valves?from China. I started at GM in > '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where > they built components down south (non union) and then things > got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move > to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil > getting into the act, then finally india and china. I > currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter > blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be > machined here i nthe US. THe Japanese car > companies?brought their supply base over? here > (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it > wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US > content than GM or Ford. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay Marshall" < lightfoot at sc.rr.com > > To: "General pattern discussion" > < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 > US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > > > There > was an article published recently concerning the top 10 > USA > ?content automobiles. Toyota was > three of them as I recall. > ? > > Jay Marshall > > -----Original > Message----- > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bob > Richards > Sent: Friday, > August 14, > 2009 > 8:35 > PM > To: > General pattern > discussion > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > ? > > > > > > My wife and I bought > a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember > looking at the information about where it was built. It was > something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, > which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or > Japan (don't remember). > > ? > > I did some EMC > testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. > Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in > Europe. They design a component that m ay be used in several, > if not all, models, and might be made a nywhere in the > world. > > ? > > It wasn't too > long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say > their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but > I'll bet that has changed, too. > > ? > > Bob > R. > > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, > mike mueller < mups1953 at yahoo.com > > wrote: > > ? > > Phil don't you think that the > nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean > Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US > employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars > in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own > car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM > debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American > companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. > Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is > 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not > usre what makes sense anymore. > Mike > ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Sat Aug 15 14:02:52 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 22:02:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR servos needed In-Reply-To: <13E8F0894B2548659E5586A6E082675D@george15cf36d8> References: <13E8F0894B2548659E5586A6E082675D@george15cf36d8> Message-ID: <474812.64172.qm@web82103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I am trying to get my new Integral flying and am ready to install the elevator servos in the stabs. However, I find myself in need of the right servos. Currently I have a ton of good low time (just back from Horizon) JR 9411 and 9411SA servos, but they are just not a good fit for the stabs of the Integral as they are too long, too wide, and being full sized servos too heavy. I have heard that the proper servo for that application is the JR3421SA or Fut/ATX equivalent. Before I call Central or Horizon, or whomever, I figured that I would ask around the list to see if anyone had some extra 3421SAs or equivalent laying around that they would like to trade for the 9411SAs, or sell outright? Please contact me off list. TIA Anthony (aabdu at sbcglobal.net AKA (Captain of the Green team) NSRCA #759 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Sat Aug 15 16:12:43 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:12:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation In-Reply-To: <124640.95317.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <124640.95317.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <058c01ca1e06$39792c40$ac6b84c0$@net> Was that the year that Andrew's plane was overweight? My brother Wes even finished 5th that year in Sportsman. I had a receiver die on my first flight in Advanced and that was the end of my NATS. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:23 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation Andrew started flying pattern in 1996, I believe 1998 was his first NATS. I could offer him advice then. Things are a little different now. :) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:45:14 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation I was scanning the Nats history on Don Ramsey's web site and came across an interesting situation. In 1998 Peter Collinson won the Intermediate class. The interesting situation was that Tom Weedon was 16th and Andrew Jesky was 21st. Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Sat Aug 15 16:30:12 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:30:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation In-Reply-To: <058c01ca1e06$39792c40$ac6b84c0$@net> References: <124640.95317.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <058c01ca1e06$39792c40$ac6b84c0$@net> Message-ID: <177538.58041.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No, I think that was the next year 1999, he had a plane that was 1/2" too long. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:12:20 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation Was that the year that Andrew's plane was overweight? My brother Wes even finished 5th that year in Sportsman. I had a receiver die on my first flight in Advanced and that was the end of my NATS. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:23 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation Andrew started flying pattern in 1996, I believe 1998 was his first NATS. I could offer him advice then. Things are a little different now. :) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:45:14 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation I was scanning the Nats history on Don Ramsey's web site and came across an interesting situation. In 1998 Peter Collinson won the Intermediate class. The interesting situation was that Tom Weedon was 16th and Andrew Jesky was 21st. Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From astafford at swtexas.net Sat Aug 15 16:39:45 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 00:39:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation In-Reply-To: <177538.58041.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <124640.95317.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <058c01ca1e06$39792c40$ac6b84c0$@net> <177538.58041.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <058d01ca1e0a$00aa7dc0$01ff7940$@net> That's right...I knew it was something small... -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 7:30 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation No, I think that was the next year 1999, he had a plane that was 1/2" too long. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:12:20 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation Was that the year that Andrew's plane was overweight? My brother Wes even finished 5th that year in Sportsman. I had a receiver die on my first flight in Advanced and that was the end of my NATS. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 8:23 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation Andrew started flying pattern in 1996, I believe 1998 was his first NATS. I could offer him advice then. Things are a little different now. :) Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Ron Van Putte To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 9:45:14 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Unusual Situation I was scanning the Nats history on Don Ramsey's web site and came across an interesting situation. In 1998 Peter Collinson won the Intermediate class. The interesting situation was that Tom Weedon was 16th and Andrew Jesky was 21st. Ron VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From bob at toprudder.com Sun Aug 16 07:05:04 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:05:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <8CBEBE022FA8A37-13C8-2258@WEBMAIL-DZ38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <862575.5914.qm@web1112.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I agree with you 100% about Toyota. I almost bought a new Tundra, but ended up with a Chevy 2500 Diesel due to the towing capability (and the Duramax/Allison reputation). ? I suppose everyone has a reason why they prefer one make over another. I won't buy another Ford because of the way they treated me regarding my old Explorer. And don't get me started regarding the cruise control harness recalls.... ? I don't expect any vehicle to be trouble free, but I do expect the manufacturer to stand behind their product. This is as much about the particular dealer as it is the manufacturer. Some dealers are DEFINITELY better than others. ? Bob R. ? --- On Sat, 8/15/09, rcmaster199 at aol.com wrote: Global economy and Global marketplace have pretty much come of age. The reason I prefer Toyotas is because of their execution....attention to detail during manufacturing. Engineering is very good at pretty much all top auto makers. Execution and supply chain quality control are the main areas of difference FWIW2U MattK ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brett.terry at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 08:42:06 2009 From: brett.terry at gmail.com (brett terry) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:42:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <862575.5914.qm@web1112.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <8CBEBE022FA8A37-13C8-2258@WEBMAIL-DZ38.sysops.aol.com> <862575.5914.qm@web1112.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I agree with you there, Bob. Isuzu in Japan makes a FINE diesel engine (Duramax)! That is an extremely nice setup. The tundra is very nice too, and I have noticed very nice 1 year-old Tundras going for very good prices locally (say $27k loaded, when they were over $43k new last year). It seems the Duramax trucks hold their value better. I was going to buy the Toyota Sienna until I drove the Honda. They are very close to equal, but in the end the Honda was a bit less for the same options and the seats are better in the Honda. I have a Honda Odyssey that I can completely pack with planes. I can put my 35% plane in there with all three kids (two in car seats) and my wife, and still have a little bit of room for other toys. With the middle seat out and the back seat folded down I can fit a ton of stuff, a big 40% would easily fit. My wife wishes we had the Chrysler T&C for the stow-and-go, which I agree is very nice. However it takes up some headroom, and since I am 6'6", that is high on my list. The Dodge had some fit-and-finish issues that turned me off, but the Chrysler was very nice. I believe the Odyssey is the largest minivan on the market. I have loaded it up with a big pile of 11' lumber, 4'x8' plywood and sheetrock with the door closed when I was finishing my attic a few years ago. 10' lumber fits easily, but the 12' - 14' stuff extends out the back obviously. Last year when I swapped oceans to move to the Northwest I completely loaded the van with Rubbermaid Totes full of the things that wouldn't fit in the moving truck, hoisted my 2m pattern plane from the ceiling with ropes, threw 4 mountain bikes on a trailer hitch-mounted bike rack, and averaged 24 mpg along I-90 effectively from Boston to Seattle, travelling around 75-80 most of the way. FWIW I have a '98 Chrysler Concorde LXI with the 3.2L that is simply bulletproof. I bought it for a song a few years ago and it now has 170k miles on it. The leather on the drivers seat is starting to show a bit of wear and one of the speakers is blown but otherwise it is excellent. I will likely be able to sell it in a few years for the price I paid - literally a song... On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Bob Richards wrote: > I agree with you 100% about Toyota. I almost bought a new Tundra, but ended > up with a Chevy 2500 Diesel due to the towing capability (and the > Duramax/Allison reputation). > > I suppose everyone has a reason why they prefer one make over another. I > won't buy another Ford because of the way they treated me regarding my old > Explorer. And don't get me started regarding the cruise control harness > recalls.... > > I don't expect any vehicle to be trouble free, but I do expect the > manufacturer to stand behind their product. This is as much about the > particular dealer as it is the manufacturer. Some dealers are DEFINITELY > better than others. > > Bob R. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ron.needham at comcast.net Sun Aug 16 12:03:12 2009 From: ron.needham at comcast.net (Ron Needham) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:03:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] model sun shade Message-ID: I see that some of you have sun shades that fit over your aircraft. Where do you buy these? If you make them, what is the best material to use? Ron Needham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Sun Aug 16 12:06:34 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:06:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] model sun shade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8866C8.4050300@cox.net> Ron Needham wrote: > > I see that some of you have sun shades that fit over your aircraft. > Where do you buy these? If you make them, what is the best material > to use? > > > > **Ron Needham** > > > > > I have some made by planewrappers made for 2M pattern planes. Very nice product and works very well. http://www.planewrappers.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 16 12:17:42 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:17:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <560442.2488.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090814151323.50DF8115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> <560442.2488.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090816201742.551D8115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Mike, I admitted as much - see the material in blue below, once more...it still makes sense to me. At 02:33 PM 8/14/2009, you wrote: > Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is > kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars > here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of > their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders > own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. > Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and > American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by > Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list > goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike > >--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 10:13 AM > > > > > > Toyota and Honda(?) may be American > > assembled, but the > > corporate profits go straight to Tokyo -- I have an '83 > > Mazda RX-7 > > classic, restored, but that's the ONLY Japanese or > > Korean car I will EVER > > own or drive...that includes rentals, too!!! > > > > > > At 09:06 AM 8/14/2009, you wrote: > > > > OK > > question. What would > > one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the > > Chryslers? Also what > > does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, > > Mike > > > > > > I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 > > Windstar. > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: richard wallace > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > > > > > might consider a Toyota (American made if that > > counts) > > > > > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model > > year). > > > > > > > > > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > > > > > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds > > everything. > > > > > > > > > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding > > rear > > > > > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a > > GREAT > > > > > hidden storage area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > > > > > John Konneker > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > > > > > adieu. > > > > > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > > > > > Yep, I'm really getting old. > > > > > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really > > appreciate > > > > > hearing them. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > JLK > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v > > (865) 604-0541 > > c > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 16 12:20:02 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:20:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <54f1efb30908141425s263b67c1r1e9574d4c94da430@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20090814151323.50DF8115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> <560442.2488.qm@web51008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <54f1efb30908141425s263b67c1r1e9574d4c94da430@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090816202001.8E591115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> My '05 Gr. Caravan (w/Stow'n'Go) gets better than 24 mpg overall -- 28 on the interstate at a reasonable speed -- 67-70mph... At 05:25 PM 8/14/2009, you wrote: >I also support my advice on getting a Chrysler/Dodge Minivan with >stow and go seats because right now everyone is going for better gas >mileage and the minivans will give you lower mileage and lower >prices. Hey the Dodge/Chrysler Minivans get 24+ mpg. Ask Mike Darr, >he swears by them > >On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 2:33 PM, mike mueller ><mups1953 at yahoo.com> wrote: > Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is > kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars > here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of > their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders > own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. > Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and > American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by > Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list > goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike > >--- On Fri, 8/14/09, Phil Spelt ><chuenkan at comcast.net> wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt <chuenkan at comcast.net> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 10:13 AM > > > > > > Toyota and Honda(?) may be American > > assembled, but the > > corporate profits go straight to Tokyo -- I have an '83 > > Mazda RX-7 > > classic, restored, but that's the ONLY Japanese or > > Korean car I will EVER > > own or drive...that includes rentals, too!!! > > > > > > At 09:06 AM 8/14/2009, you wrote: > > > > OK > > question. What would > > one expect to pay for a Toyota or Honda van vs: the > > Chryslers? Also what > > does GM make van wise that's decent anymore? Thanks, > > Mike > > > > > > I wish Ford still made a van. I really like my 2003 > > Windstar. > > > > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/14/09, richard wallace > > <rickwallace45 at gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: richard wallace > <rickwallace45 at gmail.com> > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > > > > > Date: Friday, August 14, 2009, 7:40 AM > > > > > The Chrysler sounds good, but you > > > > > might consider a Toyota (American made if that > > counts) > > > > > Sienna, either new or used (2004 or later model > > year). > > > > > > > > > > 168K since new on my '04 and it's been > > > > > rock-solid every day. Absolutely reliable, holds > > everything. > > > > > > > > > > No Stow and Go on mine, but I removed the folding > > rear > > > > > seat (2 bolts) and decked it over, and it's a > > GREAT > > > > > hidden storage area. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, > > > > > John Konneker <jlkonn at hotmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid it's time to bid our Expedition > > > > > adieu. > > > > > Looking around I'm thinking about a minivan. > > > > > Yep, I'm really getting old. > > > > > If anyone has any recommendations I'd really > > appreciate > > > > > hearing them. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > JLK > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > My URL: > > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v > > (865) 604-0541 > > c > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > >-- >Regards, >Daniel McLalin >____________________ >www.firehow.com >www.premierbowlers.com >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 16 12:30:34 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:30:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <71260130.364661250349167785.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryvil le.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <9954ED0B2F294238B8D6496F0082569E@jaysdesktop> <71260130.364661250349167785.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090816203034.606CE115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Content, Schmontent -- where do the profits, and the taxes on them, go??? Japan or Korea...or Germany, or China, etc. GM and Ford profits got to "Detroit" and corporate taxes to Washington and Ann Arbor. Don't know what's going to happen to any "profits" from Chrysler. I am also not happy about the CFC U.S. tax dollars going to Toyota and Honda -- but what do *I* know??? At 11:12 AM 8/15/2009, you wrote: >An automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a car, all >the money is in the components and all the car manufacturers chase >the components to the lowest cost producer, which right now is >places like china, india and brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, >cranks from India and push rods and valves from China. I started at >GM in '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where they >built components down south (non union) and then things got cheaper >in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move to mexico. THen it >became even more global with Brazil getting into the act, then >finally india and china. I currently work for a diesel engine mfg >and we get 19Liter blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to >be machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car companies brought their >supply base over here (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly >plants, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US >content than GM or Ford. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jay Marshall" >To: "General pattern discussion" >Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > >There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 >USA content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall. > > >Jay Marshall >-----Original Message----- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards >Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > >My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I >remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was >something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had >the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember). > >I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for >Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in >Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not >all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world. > >It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally >say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet >that has changed, too. > >Bob R. > > >--- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller wrote: > >Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind >of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here >in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their >cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car >company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock >holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own >stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian >company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm >not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike > > > >_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion >mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Sun Aug 16 12:41:04 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:41:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] model sun shade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3454543c0908161341ybe2056btfad41bd2ec9e564@mail.gmail.com> Adrian Wong sells these... www.chingbergh.com On Sun, Aug 16, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Ron Needham wrote: > I see that some of you have sun shades that fit over your aircraft. > Where do you buy these? If you make them, what is the best material to use? > > > > *Ron Needham* > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sun Aug 16 12:47:31 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 20:47:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] model sun shade In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <118C1487-A467-4AF5-8308-5267D50F2DC6@cox.net> World Models sells sun shades through AirBorne Models, the U.S. importer. Your local hobby shop should have access to them. They cost about $25. They also sell some nice wing/stab bags. Ron VP On Aug 16, 2009, at 4:04 PM, Ron Needham wrote: > I see that some of you have sun shades that fit over your > aircraft. Where do you buy these? If you make them, what is the > best material to use? > > > Ron Needham > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jeffghughes at comcast.net Sun Aug 16 13:14:21 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:14:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <20090816203034.606CE115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <154696795.620081250457260582.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> You miss my point. I'm just saying It's a long chain of money from the customer to the automaker to the supply base. When GM and Ford sell a car,?the?majority of the money goes to ?their suppliers. These suppliers ?make a profit also, and a lot of those parts are coming from overseas.? Just because it says TRW and it's an american company, doesn't mean it's made in the states or the taxes are paid in the states . Nothing is as straight forward as it seems.? I dont' like it either. I have never bought a "foreign" car. (Though I think my chrysler minivan was made in Canada)?. I do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item you buy and you ought to try to keep as much of the money here as you can. We've already lost our television manufacturing, and home appliances are almost gone (whirlpool is still headquarted in Michigan, but they don't mfg there). Steel, foundries, almost gone. I don't think our country can survive without a strong manufacturing base and from a pinnacle?just after WW2, ?it's been down hill ever since. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Spelt" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:30:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Content, Schmontent -- where do the profits, and the taxes on them, go???? Japan or Korea...or Germany, or China, etc.? GM and Ford profits got to "Detroit" and corporate taxes to Washington and Ann Arbor.?? Don't know what's going to happen to any "profits" from Chrysler. I am also not happy about the CFC U.S. tax dollars going to Toyota and Honda -- but what do *I* know??? At 11:12 AM 8/15/2009, you wrote: An automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a car, all the money is in the components and all the car manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost producer, which right now is places like china, india and brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and push rods and valves from China. I started at GM in '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where they built components down south (non union) and then things got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil getting into the act, then finally india and china. I currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car companies brought their supply base over? here (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US content than GM or Ford. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 USA? content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall. ? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle ? My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember). ? I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world. ? It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too. ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller wrote: Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion An automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a car, all the money is in the components and all the car manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost producer, which right now is places like china, india and brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and push rods and valves from China. I started at GM in '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where they built components down south (non union) and then things got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil getting into the act, then finally india and china. I currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car companies brought their supply base over? here (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US content than GM or Ford. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 USA? content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall. ? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle ? My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember). ? I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world. ? It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too. ? Bob R. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller wrote: Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. ?????? URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 ????? My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ ????? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 16 13:54:50 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:54:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <154696795.620081250457260582.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryvi lle.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <20090816203034.606CE115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> <154696795.620081250457260582.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090816215449.E6B61115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe we're in violent agreement on this issue!! :-D As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I have fully restored, inside and out. I love to drive it with a full-flow exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA racing in the 60's). Otherwise, I buy and drive "American" -- whatever that means these days. 'Course, if I had the money, I could buy a new Jag sports car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I win the Tennessee lottery. =D> At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: >I do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item you buy and >you ought to try to keep as much of the money here as you can. -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ojfrets at earthlink.net Sun Aug 16 14:53:26 2009 From: ojfrets at earthlink.net (ORLANDO FRETS) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:53:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <154696795.620081250457260582.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <20090816203034.606CE115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> <154696795.620081250457260582.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: We no longer manufacture much. Only thing we do is make weapons. Orlando Frets -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of jeffghughes at comcast.net Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:14 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle You miss my point. I'm just saying It's a long chain of money from the customer to the automaker to the supply base. When GM and Ford sell a car, the majority of the money goes to their suppliers. These suppliers make a profit also, and a lot of those parts are coming from overseas. Just because it says TRW and it's an american company, doesn't mean it's made in the states or the taxes are paid in the states. Nothing is as straight forward as it seems. I dont' like it either. I have never bought a "foreign" car. (Though I think my chrysler minivan was made in Canada) . I do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item you buy and you ought to try to keep as much of the money here as you can. We've already lost our television manufacturing, and home appliances are almost gone (whirlpool is still headquarted in Michigan, but they don't mfg there). Steel, foundries, almost gone. I don't think our country can survive without a strong manufacturing base and from a pinnacle just after WW2, it's been down hill ever since. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Spelt" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 4:30:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Content, Schmontent -- where do the profits, and the taxes on them, go??? Japan or Korea...or Germany, or China, etc. GM and Ford profits got to "Detroit" and corporate taxes to Washington and Ann Arbor. Don't know what's going to happen to any "profits" from Chrysler. I am also not happy about the CFC U.S. tax dollars going to Toyota and Honda -- but what do *I* know??? At 11:12 AM 8/15/2009, you wrote: An automotive assembly plant does not add much content to a car, all the money is in the components and all the car manufacturers chase the components to the lowest cost producer, which right now is places like china, india and brazil. We get our blocks from brazil, cranks from India and push rods and valves from China. I started at GM in '73 and watched them go from the southern strategy where they built components down south (non union) and then things got cheaper in Mexico so we shut down plants in SC to move to mexico. THen it became even more global with Brazil getting into the act, then finally india and china. I currently work for a diesel engine mfg and we get 19Liter blocks from brazil and 30L blocks from Germany to be machined here inthe US. THe Japanese car companies brought their supply base over here (NTN, Aisen, etc) when they set up assembly plants, so it wouldn't surprise me that they have cars with more US content than GM or Ford. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, August 15, 2009 10:25:19 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle There was an article published recently concerning the top 10 USA content automobiles. Toyota was three of them as I recall. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:35 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle My wife and I bought a Honda Element a few years ago (2004) and I remember looking at the information about where it was built. It was something like 65% components from North America. The CRV, which had the same drive train and engine, was 65% Asia or Japan (don't remember). I did some EMC testing for a manufacturer that made components for Ford. Some of their stuff was made here, some in China, some in Europe. They design a component that may be used in several, if not all, models, and might be made anywhere in the world. It wasn't too long ago that the ONLY manufacturer that could legally say their cars were 100% made in the USA was Saturn, but I'll bet that has changed, too. Bob R. --- On Fri, 8/14/09, mike mueller wrote: Phil don't you think that the nations attached to most cars is kind of muddled? I mean Honda, Nissan and Toyota make a lot of cars here in the US employing a lot of Americans. Ford makes a lot of their cars in Mexico and Canada and South America. Stock holders own car company's up until recently with the Chrysler/ GM debacle. Stock holders from Asia own stock in American companies and American's own stock in Toyota and Honda. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat an Italian company. Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and the list goes on and on. I'm not usre what makes sense anymore. Mike _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From scott at rcfoamy.com Sun Aug 16 15:32:17 2009 From: scott at rcfoamy.com (scott anderson) Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 23:32:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 Knoxville Contest Message-ID: <8FBBC62450614F66820BE0518F365D0C@ScottPC> Hi ALL. We have a room rate of $ 47.69 at the Motel 6 865-633-6646 tell them it is for the "House Mountain" contest to get that rate. CAMPING ON SITE NO HOOK UP's............. Please pre-register or questions at sales at rcfoamy.com with name,class and channel and AMA number..... See you in two weeks... Scott & Mike House Mountain Pattern Classic August 29 & 30, 2009, Knoxville, TN New Venue, Wide Open Spaces!! Field open for flying at noon on Friday CD: Scott Anderson (865) 712-1658 Asst: Mike Robinson (706) 463-3407 scott at rcfoamy.com shineyobject at gmail.com Pilots' Meeting 9:00am Saturday Entry fee is $30.00 Come Enjoy a More Relaxed Post-Nats Competition In Beautiful East Tennessee Scenery!! All AMA Classes & FAI schedule Contestant Judging Lunch available on-site Saturday Directions and motel information are on page 2 Directions to Field: Take the East Town Mall (Washington Pike) exit 8 off Interstate 640 (map below). Stay on Washington Pike for ~8 miles, past the intersection with Roberts Road (House Mountain convenience mart on the right). You're now less than a mile from the turn-in to the field, which will be on your left just past a horse stable/farm on the right. The satellite view, second below, shows Roberts Road, the horse farm and the flying site. GPS: N36 07.591, W83 47.641 Motels @ Exit 398 on I-40 east of Knoxville: Motel 6 (865) 633-6646 Econo Lodge Inn (865) 932-1217 LaQuinta (865) 633-5100 Best Western 865/544-7737 Hol.Day Inn Exp 865-5255100 Quality Inn East (865) 342-0003 These are all relatively new Motels - Motel 6 is a multi-story building, looks very New and clean, inside room entrance. This exit is closest to the field - maps >From this exit will be available -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From precisionaero at hotmail.com Sun Aug 16 16:03:45 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:03:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have been running my 160DZ with a 4 blade prop but needed to switch to a 2 bladed prop since the 4 blade is not longer with this world. It was VERY hot and humid today in Michigan, and the 18.1X10 2 blade seemed to be loading the 160DZ down a tad. It was turing about 7700 the other night when I tested the engine/prop combo. After my first flight today, the engine would audibly sag and then die suddenly when running at full power for more than 10 to 15 seconds. So, my questions are: What props are other people running on their 160DZ's? What RPM are you turning? How far out are you on the main needle? Fuel? Of course, any suggestions about anything to check would be appreciated. FYI, for me, I am running at 2.25 turns out, 7700 RPM and using 30%DZ blend PowerMaster. Turning in the needle any further will cause the engine to sag audibly. My second YS topic has to do with the small bearing that supports the cam. I tried to heat the case slightly and pop it out with a light tap on the case. I tried to pull it out with a modified tool with a small lip on it, but it is not budging. Looks like what I really need would be a reversed small gear puller, but I doubt the local hardware stores carry that. So, any suggestions about how to get that little bearing out? Thanks all Mike Cohen _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 16 16:34:46 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:34:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001701ca1ed2$820854f0$8618fed0$@net> Mike, I've found two postings on 160DZ. Adrian Wong wrote: I have been using a 17x12w on Cool Power 30% heli with good results Bob Kane wrote: On a broken in 160DZ, my pump is out (leaner) about 1/2-3/4 turn from flush, main needle should like to be 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 turns out. I use the 18.1X10, a very good combination. For the Cam cover bearing, I bent 1/16" music wire to "U" like shape and pull on both sides. If it still doesn pull, heat the casing a little bit. Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:04 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list I have been running my 160DZ with a 4 blade prop but needed to switch to a 2 bladed prop since the 4 blade is not longer with this world. It was VERY hot and humid today in Michigan, and the 18.1X10 2 blade seemed to be loading the 160DZ down a tad. It was turing about 7700 the other night when I tested the engine/prop combo. After my first flight today, the engine would audibly sag and then die suddenly when running at full power for more than 10 to 15 seconds. So, my questions are: What props are other people running on their 160DZ's? What RPM are you turning? How far out are you on the main needle? Fuel? Of course, any suggestions about anything to check would be appreciated. FYI, for me, I am running at 2.25 turns out, 7700 RPM and using 30%DZ blend PowerMaster. Turning in the needle any further will cause the engine to sag audibly. My second YS topic has to do with the small bearing that supports the cam. I tried to heat the case slightly and pop it out with a light tap on the case. I tried to pull it out with a modified tool with a small lip on it, but it is not budging. Looks like what I really need would be a reversed small gear puller, but I doubt the local hardware stores carry that. So, any suggestions about how to get that little bearing out? Thanks all Mike Cohen _____ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 16 16:54:12 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:54:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle References: <20090816203034.606CE115B1@bridi.netexpress.com><154696795.620081250457260582.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <20090816215449.E6B61115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: Herbert--My Dad's Father's name--definitely German in origin. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe we're in violent agreement on this issue!! :-D As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I have fully restored, inside and out. I love to drive it with a full-flow exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA racing in the 60's). Otherwise, I buy and drive "American" -- whatever that means these days. 'Course, if I had the money, I could buy a new Jag sports car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I win the Tennessee lottery. =D> At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: I do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item you buy and you ought to try to keep as much of the money here as you can. --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dunnaway at hbcomm.net Sun Aug 16 18:19:08 2009 From: dunnaway at hbcomm.net (Joe Dunnaway) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:19:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A88BD5B.2060107@hbcomm.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tocdon at netscape.net Sun Aug 16 19:07:54 2009 From: tocdon at netscape.net (tocdon at netscape.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:07:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list In-Reply-To: <4A88BD5B.2060107@hbcomm.net> References: <4A88BD5B.2060107@hbcomm.net> Message-ID: <8CBECFEF92F4419-138-FD0@WEBMAIL-DY17.sysops.aol.com> Sunspots.? We had?six YS deadsticks between?four pilots?and two electrics deadstick today- and one pilot overheated and had to leave.? ?Cooling/ ducting around the engine helps.? See post in RCU about ducting around the YS for enclosed cowlings Don -----Original Message----- From: Joe Dunnaway To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sun, Aug 16, 2009 10:15 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list Mike, ??? I like the 18.1X10 PN (Pattern Narrow) on the 160DZ.? It will turn around 8300 rpm and has fantastic downline braking.? I'm running close to 2 turns out needle but that will depend on how the regulator is adjusted.? I'm running Cool Power Heli 30%.?? It sounds like you may be running a little lean.? Was the engine hot after it died? Joe Dunnaway . Michael Cohen wrote: I have been running my 160DZ with a 4 blade prop but needed to switch to a 2 bladed prop since the 4 blade is not longer with this world.? It was VERY hot and humid today in Michigan, and the 18.1X10 2 blade seemed to be loading the 160DZ down a tad.? It was turing about 7700 the other night when I tested the engine/prop combo.? After my first flight today, the engine would audibly sag and then die suddenly when running at full power for more than 10 to 15 seconds.? So, my questions are: ? What props are other people running on their 160DZ's? What RPM are you turning? How far out are you on the main needle? Fuel? Of course, any suggestions about anything to check would be appreciated. ? FYI, for me, I am running at 2.25 turns out, 7700 RPM and using 30%DZ blend PowerMaster.? Turning in the needle any further will cause the engine to sag audibly. ? My second YS topic has to do with the small bearing that supports the cam.? I tried to heat the case slightly and pop it out with a light tap on the case.? I tried to pull it out with a modified tool with a small lip on it, but it is not budging.? Looks like what I really need would be a reversed small gear puller, but I doubt the local hardware stores carry that.? So, any suggestions about how to get that little bearing out? ? Thanks all ? Mike Cohen ? ? Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tocdon at netscape.net Sun Aug 16 19:13:44 2009 From: tocdon at netscape.net (tocdon at netscape.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:13:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Beginner and Intermediate pilot training tips NVRC Pattern Contest 19-20 Sept In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908161341ybe2056btfad41bd2ec9e564@mail.gmail.com> References: <3454543c0908161341ybe2056btfad41bd2ec9e564@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBECFFC86C2B11-138-1016@WEBMAIL-DY17.sysops.aol.com> First in a series of two. Lessons from todays NVRC training session for those venturing into pattern that survived the heat and ticks, within early intermediate, or getting ready for their first contest.? If anyone else interested: Step one positioning, step two geometry, step three precision.? Extra credit smoothness and gracefullness.? Oh yes did I mention rudder... http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9021661/tm.htm Don -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From precisionaero at hotmail.com Mon Aug 17 03:28:48 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 11:28:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list In-Reply-To: <4A88BD5B.2060107@hbcomm.net> References: <4A88BD5B.2060107@hbcomm.net> Message-ID: The engine was not particularly hot after running. I was going to check all the seals just to make sure when I took it apart the other day for inspection that I did not re-assembly it with a leak path. Then I will run it in the cool morning air, wake up all the neighbors, and see what happens. Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:15:55 -0500 From: dunnaway at hbcomm.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list Mike, I like the 18.1X10 PN (Pattern Narrow) on the 160DZ. It will turn around 8300 rpm and has fantastic downline braking. I'm running close to 2 turns out needle but that will depend on how the regulator is adjusted. I'm running Cool Power Heli 30%. It sounds like you may be running a little lean. Was the engine hot after it died? Joe Dunnaway . Michael Cohen wrote: I have been running my 160DZ with a 4 blade prop but needed to switch to a 2 bladed prop since the 4 blade is not longer with this world. It was VERY hot and humid today in Michigan, and the 18.1X10 2 blade seemed to be loading the 160DZ down a tad. It was turing about 7700 the other night when I tested the engine/prop combo. After my first flight today, the engine would audibly sag and then die suddenly when running at full power for more than 10 to 15 seconds. So, my questions are: What props are other people running on their 160DZ's? What RPM are you turning? How far out are you on the main needle? Fuel? Of course, any suggestions about anything to check would be appreciated. FYI, for me, I am running at 2.25 turns out, 7700 RPM and using 30%DZ blend PowerMaster. Turning in the needle any further will cause the engine to sag audibly. My second YS topic has to do with the small bearing that supports the cam. I tried to heat the case slightly and pop it out with a light tap on the case. I tried to pull it out with a modified tool with a small lip on it, but it is not budging. Looks like what I really need would be a reversed small gear puller, but I doubt the local hardware stores carry that. So, any suggestions about how to get that little bearing out? Thanks all Mike Cohen Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 04:32:44 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:32:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <676173.53102.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Actually I believe Ford sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > From: Bill Glaze > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > Father's name--definitely German > in origin.? Bill > > ----- Original Message > ----- > From: > Phil > Spelt > To: General > pattern discussion > > Sent: Sunday, August > 16, 2009 5:54 > PM > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] New > Vehicle > > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > we're in > violent > agreement > on this issue!!? :-D > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > have fully restored, inside and out.? I love to > drive it with a full-flow > exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA > racing in the > 60's).? Otherwise, I buy and drive > "American" -- whatever that means > these days.? 'Course, if I had the money, I > could buy a new Jag sports > car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I > win the Tennessee lottery. > =D> > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > I > do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item > you buy and you ought > to try to keep as much of the money here as you > can. > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters > and > targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past > President, Knox County Radio Control Society, > Inc. > ?????? URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294,? Scientific > Leader Member, SPA--177 > ????? My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > ????? > (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion > mailing > list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 05:24:14 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:24:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list In-Reply-To: <001701ca1ed2$820854f0$8618fed0$@net> References: <001701ca1ed2$820854f0$8618fed0$@net> Message-ID: <796556.52026.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm still running this combination, Powermaster 30% DZ blend. I don't know if you noticed my last flight last weekend, but I blew the header. First time I have had one fail that way so the motor was probably a little lean, raising the exhaust temps. I richened the needle a couple of clicks. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Ihncheol Park To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:34:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list Mike, I?ve found two postings on 160DZ. Adrian Wong wrote: I have been using a 17x12w on Cool Power 30% heli with good results Bob Kane wrote: On a broken in 160DZ, my pump is out (leaner) about 1/2-3/4 turn from flush, main needle should like to be 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 turns out. I use the 18.1X10, a very good combination. For the Cam cover bearing, I bent 1/16? music wire to ?U? like shape and pull on both sides. If it still doesn pull, heat the casing a little bit. Ihncheol From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:04 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list I have been running my 160DZ with a 4 blade prop but needed to switch to a 2 bladed prop since the 4 blade is not longer with this world. It was VERY hot and humid today in Michigan, and the 18.1X10 2 blade seemed to be loading the 160DZ down a tad. It was turing about 7700 the other night when I tested the engine/prop combo. After my first flight today, the engine would audibly sag and then die suddenly when running at full power for more than 10 to 15 seconds. So, my questions are: What props are other people running on their 160DZ's? What RPM are you turning? How far out are you on the main needle? Fuel? Of course, any suggestions about anything to check would be appreciated. FYI, for me, I am running at 2.25 turns out, 7700 RPM and using 30%DZ blend PowerMaster. Turning in the needle any further will cause the engine to sag audibly. My second YS topic has to do with the small bearing that supports the cam. I tried to heat the case slightly and pop it out with a light tap on the case. I tried to pull it out with a modified tool with a small lip on it, but it is not budging. Looks like what I really need would be a reversed small gear puller, but I doubt the local hardware stores carry that. So, any suggestions about how to get that little bearing out? Thanks all Mike Cohen ________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 05:30:12 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:30:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <676173.53102.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <676173.53102.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090817133011.A9F9A1161C@bridi.netexpress.com> Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I ever win the Tn Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > Actually I believe Ford sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > >--- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > > > From: Bill Glaze > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > Father's name--definitely German > > in origin. Bill > > > > ----- Original Message > > ----- > > From: > > Phil > > Spelt > > To: General > > pattern discussion > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > PM > > Subject: Re: > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > Vehicle > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > we're in > > violent > > agreement > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > have fully restored, inside and out. I love to > > drive it with a full-flow > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA > > racing in the > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy and drive > > "American" -- whatever that means > > these days. 'Course, if I had the money, I > > could buy a new Jag sports > > car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > =D> > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > I > > do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item > > you buy and you ought > > to try to keep as much of the money here as you > > can. > > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters > > and > > targets. > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past > > President, Knox County Radio Control Society, > > Inc. > > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion > > mailing > > list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at rcfoamy.com Mon Aug 17 05:32:23 2009 From: scott at rcfoamy.com (scott anderson) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:32:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Knoxville Tn Contest - Photos of site Message-ID: <7A906C6A8F824958A4B160AF1E92BE49@ScottPC> Hi All, Here is a link that has a few photos of the site from the air.... http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8853294/tm.htm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 05:54:48 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 13:54:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <20090817133011.A9F9A1161C@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <464405.64417.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Phil the Mega game is at $170 Million tonight.. Mike --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > From: Phil Spelt > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > ever win the Tn > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > ?Actually > I believe Ford > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > wrote: > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > >? > > >? > > > > > > > > >? > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > in origin.? Bill > > > > > >?? ----- Original Message > > > ----- > > >?? From: > > >?? Phil > > >?? Spelt > > >?? To: General > > > pattern discussion > > >?? > > >?? Sent: Sunday, August > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > >?? PM > > >?? Subject: Re: > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > >?? Vehicle > > >?? > > > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > > > we're in > > >?? violent > > > agreement > > >?? on this issue!!? :-D > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > >?? have fully restored, inside and out.? > I love > to > > > drive it with a full-flow > > >?? exhaust and racing suspension (I was > involved with > SCCA > > > racing in the > > >?? 60's).? Otherwise, I buy and > drive > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > >?? these days.? 'Course, if I had > the money, I > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > >?? car, since that's Ford, > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > >?? =D> > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >?? I > > >???? do feel that a car is the most > expensive > consumer item > > > you buy and you ought > > >???? to try to keep as much of the > money here as > you > > > can. > > >?? --> There are only two types of > aircraft -- > fighters > > > and > > >?? targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > Past > > >?? President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, > > >?? Inc. > > >??????? URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific > > >?? Leader Member, SPA--177 > > >?????? My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > >?????? > > >?? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c > > >?? > > >?? > > > > > >?? > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion > > >?? mailing > > >?? list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ????? > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > --> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > targets. > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past President, > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > ?????? URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > ????? My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > ????? (865) 435-1476 v? > (865) 604-0541 > c > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From d_bodary at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 06:02:59 2009 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com (Dennis Bodary) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:02:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <464405.64417.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <981998.41521.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> And there's really only two choices for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler looking. --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM Phil the Mega game is at $170 Million tonight.. Mike --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > From: Phil Spelt > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > >? > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > ever win the Tn > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > ?Actually > I believe Ford > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > wrote: > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > >? > > >? > > > > > > > > >? > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > in origin.? Bill > > > > > >?? ----- Original Message > > > ----- > > >?? From: > > >?? Phil > > >?? Spelt > > >?? To: General > > > pattern discussion > > >?? > > >?? Sent: Sunday, August > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > >?? PM > > >?? Subject: Re: > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > >?? Vehicle > > >?? > > > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > > > we're in > > >?? violent > > > agreement > > >?? on this issue!!? :-D > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > >?? have fully restored, inside and out.? > I love > to > > > drive it with a full-flow > > >?? exhaust and racing suspension (I was > involved with > SCCA > > > racing in the > > >?? 60's).? Otherwise, I buy and > drive > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > >?? these days.? 'Course, if I had > the money, I > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > >?? car, since that's Ford, > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > >?? =D> > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >?? I > > >???? do feel that a car is the most > expensive > consumer item > > > you buy and you ought > > >???? to try to keep as much of the > money here as > you > > > can. > > >?? --> There are only two types of > aircraft -- > fighters > > > and > > >?? targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > Past > > >?? President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, > > >?? Inc. > > >??????? URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific > > >?? Leader Member, SPA--177 > > >?????? My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > >?????? > > >?? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c > > >?? > > >?? > > > > > >?? > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion > > >?? mailing > > >?? list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ????? > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >? > --> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > targets. > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past President, > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > ?????? URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > ????? My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > ????? (865) 435-1476 v? > (865) 604-0541 > c? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 17 06:10:10 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:10:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <981998.41521.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <464405.64417.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <981998.41521.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it right now though,,,:0(. My Yukon is doing a number on my back... RS Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle And there's really only two choices for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler looking. --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM Phil the Mega game is at $170 Million tonight.. Mike --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > From: Phil Spelt > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > ever win the Tn > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > Actually > I believe Ford > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > wrote: > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > in origin. Bill > > > > > > ----- Original Message > > > ----- > > > From: > > > Phil > > > Spelt > > > To: General > > > pattern discussion > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > PM > > > Subject: Re: > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > Vehicle > > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > > we're in > > > violent > > > agreement > > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > have fully restored, inside and out. > I love > to > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was > involved with > SCCA > > > racing in the > > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy and > drive > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > these days. 'Course, if I had > the money, I > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > car, since that's Ford, > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > =D> > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > I > > > do feel that a car is the most > expensive > consumer item > > > you buy and you ought > > > to try to keep as much of the > money here as > you > > > can. > > > --> There are only two types of > aircraft -- > fighters > > > and > > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > Past > > > President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, > > > Inc. > > > URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > mailing > > > list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > --> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > targets. > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past President, > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > (865) 435-1476 v > (865) 604-0541 > c > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 06:34:36 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:34:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list In-Reply-To: <796556.52026.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <001701ca1ed2$820854f0$8618fed0$@net> <796556.52026.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <339641.16505.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm also running the 18.1X10 wide blade. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 9:24:11 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list I'm still running this combination, Powermaster 30% DZ blend. I don't know if you noticed my last flight last weekend, but I blew the header. First time I have had one fail that way so the motor was probably a little lean, raising the exhaust temps. I richened the needle a couple of clicks. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Ihncheol Park To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:34:39 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list Mike, I?ve found two postings on 160DZ. Adrian Wong wrote: I have been using a 17x12w on Cool Power 30% heli with good results Bob Kane wrote: On a broken in 160DZ, my pump is out (leaner) about 1/2-3/4 turn from flush, main needle should like to be 1-1/2 to 1-3/4 turns out. I use the 18.1X10, a very good combination. For the Cam cover bearing, I bent 1/16? music wire to ?U? like shape and pull on both sides. If it still doesn pull, heat the casing a little bit. Ihncheol From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 7:04 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Some YS questions for the list I have been running my 160DZ with a 4 blade prop but needed to switch to a 2 bladed prop since the 4 blade is not longer with this world. It was VERY hot and humid today in Michigan, and the 18.1X10 2 blade seemed to be loading the 160DZ down a tad. It was turing about 7700 the other night when I tested the engine/prop combo. After my first flight today, the engine would audibly sag and then die suddenly when running at full power for more than 10 to 15 seconds. So, my questions are: What props are other people running on their 160DZ's? What RPM are you turning? How far out are you on the main needle? Fuel? Of course, any suggestions about anything to check would be appreciated. FYI, for me, I am running at 2.25 turns out, 7700 RPM and using 30%DZ blend PowerMaster. Turning in the needle any further will cause the engine to sag audibly. My second YS topic has to do with the small bearing that supports the cam. I tried to heat the case slightly and pop it out with a light tap on the case. I tried to pull it out with a modified tool with a small lip on it, but it is not budging. Looks like what I really need would be a reversed small gear puller, but I doubt the local hardware stores carry that. So, any suggestions about how to get that little bearing out? Thanks all Mike Cohen ________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From precisionaero at hotmail.com Mon Aug 17 07:38:30 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:38:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: <464405.64417.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <981998.41521.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Like hey man, all your dude's out there are not feeling the love man. What you need to do is, like buy an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and after hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an airplane hauler man. Just think, you like hanging out at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7. All you need is a fridge, a generator for charging earth loving lipos, and some sleeping bags man. Plus, with all the nitro you are not using man, you could burn that instead of incense man. Peace! From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it right now though,,,:0(. My Yukon is doing a number on my back... RS Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle And there's really only two choices for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler looking. --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM Phil the Mega game is at $170 Million tonight.. Mike --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > From: Phil Spelt > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > ever win the Tn > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > Actually > I believe Ford > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > wrote: > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > in origin. Bill > > > > > > ----- Original Message > > > ----- > > > From: > > > Phil > > > Spelt > > > To: General > > > pattern discussion > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > PM > > > Subject: Re: > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > Vehicle > > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > > we're in > > > violent > > > agreement > > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > have fully restored, inside and out. > I love > to > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was > involved with > SCCA > > > racing in the > > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy and > drive > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > these days. 'Course, if I had > the money, I > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > car, since that's Ford, > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > =D> > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > I > > > do feel that a car is the most > expensive > consumer item > > > you buy and you ought > > > to try to keep as much of the > money here as > you > > > can. > > > --> There are only two types of > aircraft -- > fighters > > > and > > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > Past > > > President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, > > > Inc. > > > URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > mailing > > > list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > --> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > targets. > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past President, > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > (865) 435-1476 v > (865) 604-0541 > c > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronlock at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 07:47:01 2009 From: ronlock at comcast.net (ronlock at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:47:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle - School Bus? In-Reply-To: <670275011.517981250523923628.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <517594593.519031250524021143.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> A friend of mine bought an old school bus to haul stuff -? And got rid of the seats by throwing a party at his hou se, and gave seats? away as door prizes. Ron Lockhart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Cohen" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:38:29 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Like hey man, all your dude's out there are?not feeling the love man.? What you need to do is, like buy an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and after?hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an airplane hauler man.? Just think, you like hanging out at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7.? All you?need is a fridge, a generator for charging?earth loving lipos, and some sleeping bags?man.? Plus, with all the nitro you are not using man, you could burn that instead of incense man.? Peace! ? From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it right now though,,,:0(.? My Yukon is doing a number on my back... RS ? Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle And there's really only two choices for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler looking. --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM Phil the Mega game is at $170 Million tonight.. Mike --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt < chuenkan at comcast.net > wrote: > From: Phil Spelt < chuenkan at comcast.net > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > >? > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > ever win the Tn > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > ?Actually > I believe Ford > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > < billglaze at bellsouth.net > > wrote: > > > > From: Bill Glaze < billglaze at bellsouth.net > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > >? > > >? > > > > > > > > >? > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > in origin.? Bill > > > > > >?? ----- Original Message > > > ----- > > >?? From: > > >?? Phil > > >?? Spelt > > >?? To: General > > > pattern discussion > > >?? > > >?? Sent: Sunday, August > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > >?? PM > > >?? Subject: Re: > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > >?? Vehicle > > >?? > > > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > > > we're in > > >?? violent > > > agreement > > >?? on this issue!!? :-D > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > >?? have fully restored, inside and out.? > I love > to > > > drive it with a full-flow > > >?? exhaust and racing suspension (I was > involved with > SCCA > > > racing in the > > >?? 60's).? Otherwise, I buy and > drive > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > >?? these days.? 'Course, if I had > the money, I > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > >?? car, since that's Ford, > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > >?? =D> > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > >?? I > > >???? do feel that a car is the most > expensive > consumer item > > > you buy and you ought > > >???? to try to keep as much of the > money here as > you > > > can. > > >?? --> There are only two types of > aircraft -- > fighters > > > and > > >?? targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > Past > > >?? President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, > > >?? Inc. > > >??????? URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific > > >?? Leader Member, SPA--177 > > >?????? My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > >?????? > > >?? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c > > >?? > > >?? > > > > > >?? > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion > > >?? mailing > > >?? list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > ????? > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >? > --> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > targets. > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past President, > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > ?????? URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > ????? My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > ????? (865) 435-1476 v? > (865) 604-0541 > c? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ronlock at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 07:48:19 2009 From: ronlock at comcast.net (ronlock at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:48:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <676173.53102.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1704970595.519941250524099213.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Yep, Indian company is Tata Motors. Ron Lockhart ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:32:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle ?Actually I believe Ford sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > From: Bill Glaze > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > ? > ? > > > ? > Herbert--My Dad's > Father's name--definitely German > in origin.? Bill > > ? ----- Original Message > ----- > ? From: > ? Phil > ? Spelt > ? To: General > pattern discussion > ? > ? Sent: Sunday, August > 16, 2009 5:54 > ? PM > ? Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] New > ? Vehicle > ? > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > we're in > ? violent > agreement > ? on this issue!!? :-D > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > ? have fully restored, inside and out.? I love to > drive it with a full-flow > ? exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA > racing in the > ? 60's).? Otherwise, I buy and drive > "American" -- whatever that means > ? these days.? 'Course, if I had the money, I > could buy a new Jag sports > ? car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I > win the Tennessee lottery. > ? =D> > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > ? I > ? ? do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item > you buy and you ought > ? ? to try to keep as much of the money here as you > can. > ? --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters > and > ? targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past > ? President, Knox County Radio Control Society, > ? Inc. > ?????? URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294,? Scientific > ? Leader Member, SPA--177 > ????? My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > ????? > ? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c > ? > ? > > ? _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion > ? mailing > ? list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ?? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 17 07:56:13 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 15:56:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <1704970595.519941250524099213.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1704970595.519941250524099213.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <892EAE1E-1A0A-43AB-A0D6-A1B7D3A18776@cox.net> I wonder if the Tata Motors people know what we call tatas. Does the Company have big tatas and little tatas? Sorry, but my sense of humor has always been a bit twisted. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:48 AM, ronlock at comcast.net wrote: > Yep, Indian company is Tata Motors. > > > Ron Lockhart > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mike mueller" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:32:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > Actually I believe Ford sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian > company. Mike > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > > > From: Bill Glaze > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > Father's name--definitely German > > in origin. Bill > > > > ----- Original Message > > ----- > > From: > > Phil > > Spelt > > To: General > > pattern discussion > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > PM > > Subject: Re: > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > Vehicle > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > we're in > > violent > > agreement > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > have fully restored, inside and out. I love to > > drive it with a full-flow > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA > > racing in the > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy and drive > > "American" -- whatever that means > > these days. 'Course, if I had the money, I > > could buy a new Jag sports > > car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > =D> > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > I > > do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item > > you buy and you ought > > to try to keep as much of the money here as you > > can. > > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters > > and > > targets. > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past > > President, Knox County Radio Control Society, > > Inc. > > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion > > mailing > > list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 17 09:04:22 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:04:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Message-ID: Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. Pros and Cons Please. Jim Hiller From wemodels at cox.net Mon Aug 17 09:08:09 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:08:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A898E71.5030507@cox.net> J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > Here's a nice comparison chart. http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/feature-compare.html You can find the manuals for the 10 and 12 channel radios here: http://www.futaba-rc.com/manuals/index.html The soon to be released 8FG looks promising as well. It is listed ont he chart as well. From BUDDYonRC at aol.com Mon Aug 17 09:21:20 2009 From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com (BUDDYonRC at aol.com) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:21:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Message-ID: Jim I have a Futaba 12Z only played with in the shop like new I will part with reasonable. I have 2 9Z's I like to have a back up. And find it is no longer in my budget to get another 12Z. I can send pictures if you are interested email me direct at _buddyonrc at aol.com_ (mailto:buddyonrc at aol.com) **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 17 09:27:28 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:27:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <4A898E71.5030507@cox.net> Message-ID: Thanks for the link to the comparison chart, its great. I started to go cross-eyed looking at the manuals. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:08 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > Here's a nice comparison chart. http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/feature-compare.html You can find the manuals for the 10 and 12 channel radios here: http://www.futaba-rc.com/manuals/index.html The soon to be released 8FG looks promising as well. It is listed ont he chart as well. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 17 09:27:51 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:27:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Message-ID: <82807.16805.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The 12Z is a sweet radio for Pattern. Even my JR buddies like mine. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote: From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 1:17 PM Jim I have a Futaba 12Z only?played with?in the shop like new I will part with reasonable. I have 2 9Z's I like to have a back up. And find it is no longer?in my budget to get another 12Z. I can send pictures if you are interested email me direct at? buddyonrc at aol.com? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 17 09:42:47 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:42:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <82807.16805.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <82807.16805.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9233@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> If this is going to be your first 2.4 system, then you're not beholden to futaba for compatibility with your other rx's. I would suggest looking at all the major brands for what you like. Switching to 2.4 is the one time that we get to really evaluate everything without incurring additional expense for changing. -Mark (And yes, of course I would want you to check out the Airtronics offering too, but I think the "look at everything" advice holds true regardless) From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:28 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG The 12Z is a sweet radio for Pattern. Even my JR buddies like mine. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote: From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 1:17 PM Jim I have a Futaba 12Z only played with in the shop like new I will part with reasonable. I have 2 9Z's I like to have a back up. And find it is no longer in my budget to get another 12Z. I can send pictures if you are interested email me direct at buddyonrc at aol.com ________________________________ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 09:59:46 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 17:59:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <639371.65827.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Far out dude! --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Michael Cohen wrote: > From: Michael Cohen > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > #yiv271696747 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > Like hey man, all your dude's out there are?not > feeling the love man.? What you need to do is, like buy > an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and > after?hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an > airplane hauler man.? Just think, you like hanging out > at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7.? All > you?need is a fridge, a generator for > charging?earth loving lipos, and some sleeping > bags?man.? Plus, with all the nitro you are not > using man, you could burn that instead of incense man.? > Peace! > ? > > > From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P > {padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage > {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it > right now though,,,:0(.? My Yukon is doing a number on > my back... > RS > ? > > > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 > From: d_bodary at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > And there's really only two choices > for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with > stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler > looking. > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller > wrote: > > > From: mike mueller > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM > > > Phil the Mega game is at $170 > Million tonight.. Mike > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt > wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > >? > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > > ever win the Tn > > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > > > ?Actually > > I believe Ford > > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > > > in origin.? Bill > > > > > > > > > >?? ----- Original Message > > > > > ----- > > > > >?? From: > > > > >?? Phil > > > > >?? Spelt > > > > >?? To: General > > > > > pattern discussion > > > > >?? > > > > >?? Sent: Sunday, August > > > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > > >?? PM > > > > >?? Subject: Re: > > > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > > >?? Vehicle > > > > >?? > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > > > > > we're in > > > > >?? violent > > > > > agreement > > > > >?? on this issue!!? :-D > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > > >?? have fully restored, inside and > out.? > > I love > > to > > > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > > >?? exhaust and racing suspension (I was > > involved with > > SCCA > > > > > racing in the > > > > >?? 60's).? Otherwise, I buy > and > > drive > > > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > > >?? these days.? 'Course, if I > had > > the money, I > > > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > > >?? car, since that's Ford, > > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > > >?? =D> > > > > > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >?? I > > > > >???? do feel that a car is the > most > > expensive > > consumer item > > > > > you buy and you ought > > > > >???? to try to keep as much of > the > > money here as > > you > > > > > can. > > > > >?? --> There are only two types of > > aircraft -- > > fighters > > > > > and > > > > >?? targets. > > > > > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > > > Past > > > > >?? President, Knox County Radio Control > > Society, > > > > >?? Inc. > > > > >??????? URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific > > > > >?? Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > >?????? My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > >?????? > > > > >?? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 > c > > > > >?? > > > > >?? > > > > > > > > > >?? > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > > >?? mailing > > > > >?? list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > ????? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >? > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > ?????? URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > ????? My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > ????? (865) 435-1476 v? > > (865) 604-0541 > > c? > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > Get back to school stuff for them > and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wgalligan at att.net Mon Aug 17 10:02:41 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 18:02:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <82807.16805.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <82807.16805.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It certainly is a sweet on.... I like the fact that I have the synthesized module and the 2.4 module with mine. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:27 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG The 12Z is a sweet radio for Pattern. Even my JR buddies like mine. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote: From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 1:17 PM Jim I have a Futaba 12Z only played with in the shop like new I will part with reasonable. I have 2 9Z's I like to have a back up. And find it is no longer in my budget to get another 12Z. I can send pictures if you are interested email me direct at buddyonrc at aol.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Mon Aug 17 11:08:16 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:08:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <4A898E71.5030507@cox.net> Message-ID: <7051FB5E77064AE39A13D71AA76BF1A1@jaysdesktop> If you really like your 9C then buy the 2.4 module for it. It will work with a number of Futaba FAST receivers and you can still support your 72 MHz equipment. Personally, after losing several planes to interference I couldn't get away from 72 MHz FAST (pun intended) enough! Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:08 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > Here's a nice comparison chart. http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/feature-compare.html You can find the manuals for the 10 and 12 channel radios here: http://www.futaba-rc.com/manuals/index.html The soon to be released 8FG looks promising as well. It is listed ont he chart as well. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 17 11:13:49 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:13:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9233@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Yes, first 2.4. This will be the beginning of my conversion. Understand about the receivers and can probably get by with two or three initially and continue to run out the old stuff in other airplanes. I was hopping to get by another year or two but the old receivers are starting to fail and I don't want to replace them with more 72MH stuff. Moving to Masters is not only challenging my ability but my equipment as well. I certainly enjoy the challenge but don't like mid season equipment problems. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:36 AM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG If this is going to be your first 2.4 system, then you're not beholden to futaba for compatibility with your other rx's. I would suggest looking at all the major brands for what you like. Switching to 2.4 is the one time that we get to really evaluate everything without incurring additional expense for changing. -Mark (And yes, of course I would want you to check out the Airtronics offering too, but I think the "look at everything" advice holds true regardless) From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:28 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG The 12Z is a sweet radio for Pattern. Even my JR buddies like mine. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote: From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 1:17 PM Jim I have a Futaba 12Z only played with in the shop like new I will part with reasonable. I have 2 9Z's I like to have a back up. And find it is no longer in my budget to get another 12Z. I can send pictures if you are interested email me direct at buddyonrc at aol.com _____ -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 17 11:22:39 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:22:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <7051FB5E77064AE39A13D71AA76BF1A1@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: I like the 9C OK but wasn't very interested in the conversion besides it's been my primary transmitter since 2002. In five years I wore out the ratchet so I expect the gimbels may not be up to the job any more. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay Marshall Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:08 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG If you really like your 9C then buy the 2.4 module for it. It will work with a number of Futaba FAST receivers and you can still support your 72 MHz equipment. Personally, after losing several planes to interference I couldn't get away from 72 MHz FAST (pun intended) enough! Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:08 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > Here's a nice comparison chart. http://www.futaba-rc.com/radios/feature-compare.html You can find the manuals for the 10 and 12 channel radios here: http://www.futaba-rc.com/manuals/index.html The soon to be released 8FG looks promising as well. It is listed ont he chart as well. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From billglaze at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 17 11:36:24 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:36:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle References: <20090816203034.606CE115B1@bridi.netexpress.com><154696795.620081250457260582.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net><20090816215449.E6B61115B1@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <6B29F78F47474B22A4AA3063DB29B7CC@glazecstp32xp> Sorry--this got sent in error. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Herbert--My Dad's Father's name--definitely German in origin. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe we're in violent agreement on this issue!! :-D As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I have fully restored, inside and out. I love to drive it with a full-flow exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA racing in the 60's). Otherwise, I buy and drive "American" -- whatever that means these days. 'Course, if I had the money, I could buy a new Jag sports car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I win the Tennessee lottery. =D> At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: I do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item you buy and you ought to try to keep as much of the money here as you can. --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 11:44:40 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:44:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <464405.64417.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <20090817133011.A9F9A1161C@bridi.netexpress.com> <464405.64417.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090817194440.227641161F@bridi.netexpress.com> Whew!! *I* could use some of that coin...maybe I'll run out and buy $100.00 worth of lottery tickets -- NOT!!! At 09:54 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > Phil the Mega game is at $170 Million tonight.. Mike > >--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > > > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > > ever win the Tn > > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > > > Actually > > I believe Ford > > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > > > in origin. Bill > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message > > > > > ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > Phil > > > > > Spelt > > > > > To: General > > > > > pattern discussion > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > > > PM > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > > > Vehicle > > > > > > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > > > > we're in > > > > > violent > > > > > agreement > > > > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > > > have fully restored, inside and out. > > I love > > to > > > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was > > involved with > > SCCA > > > > > racing in the > > > > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy and > > drive > > > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > > > these days. 'Course, if I had > > the money, I > > > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > > > car, since that's Ford, > > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > > > =D> > > > > > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > do feel that a car is the most > > expensive > > consumer item > > > > > you buy and you ought > > > > > to try to keep as much of the > > money here as > > you > > > > > can. > > > > > --> There are only two types of > > aircraft -- > > fighters > > > > > and > > > > > targets. > > > > > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > > > Past > > > > > President, Knox County Radio Control > > Society, > > > > > Inc. > > > > > URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > > > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > > My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > > > > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > > > mailing > > > > > list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v > > (865) 604-0541 > > c > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 11:48:30 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:48:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <1704970595.519941250524099213.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westch ester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <676173.53102.qm@web51005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1704970595.519941250524099213.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20090817194829.BF48A1161E@bridi.netexpress.com> "Tata Motors"!!! How appropriate -- I'll just say "Ta Ta" to them... :-Dmao At 11:48 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: >Yep, Indian company is Tata Motors. > > > >Ron Lockhart > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mike mueller" >To: "General pattern discussion" >Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 8:32:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > Actually I believe Ford sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > >--- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze wrote: > > > From: Bill Glaze > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > Father's name--definitely German > > in origin. Bill > > > > ----- Original Message > > ----- > > From: > > Phil > > Spelt > > To: General > > pattern discussion > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > PM > > Subject: Re: > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > Vehicle > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > we're in > > violent > > agreement > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > have fully restored, inside and out. I love to > > drive it with a full-flow > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was involved with SCCA > > racing in the > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy and drive > > "American" -- whatever that means > > these days. 'Course, if I had the money, I > > could buy a new Jag sports > > car, since that's Ford, now-a-days...maybe after I > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > =D> > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > I > > do feel that a car is the most expensive consumer item > > you buy and you ought > > to try to keep as much of the money here as you > > can. > > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters > > and > > targets. > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past > > President, Knox County Radio Control Society, > > Inc. > > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion > > mailing > > list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 11:50:02 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:50:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090817195002.1536A1161E@bridi.netexpress.com> Several of us are having great success with the JR X-9303. >:-} At 01:04 PM 8/17/2009, you wrote: >Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the >Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like >it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. >Pros and Cons Please. >Jim Hiller > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schale at optonline.net Mon Aug 17 11:55:15 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:55:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A89B59F.9020801@optonline.net> The 10C is nice, easy to program, has plenty of programming features that a pattern flyer would use. My only problem with it is that it has the same stick assemblies as the 9C. You have to go up to the 12FG and higher to get the ball bearing supported gimble assemblies. JR's lower end "high end " radio the X9303 also ball bearing supported sticks. as does the more expensive 12X. Stuart J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 17 12:01:30 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:01:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> Don't overlook the soon-to-be-released (late September) Futaba 8FGA 8- Channel 2.4GHz FASST transmitter w/ Air R6008HS receiver (FUTK8000). It might not be "enough radio" for an experienced R/C aerobatics pilot, but it will be great for an up-and-coming R/C aerobatics pilot who's looking to upgrade their equipment. Tower Hobbies says they will sell it for $449.99. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:04 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think > of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It > looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or > 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jferrell13 at triad.rr.com Mon Aug 17 12:21:11 2009 From: jferrell13 at triad.rr.com (John Ferrell) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:21:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle - School Bus? References: <517594593.519031250524021143.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <972E43EA863A498D9EA9AC21BEAA8703@xppro2> Retired School bus going price in North Carolina is less than $3000. I received an AD for a Pace Arrow (37 ft, 1996) for $19,900 this week... John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: ronlock at comcast.net To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle - School Bus? A friend of mine bought an old school bus to haul stuff - And got rid of the seats by throwing a party at his house, and gave seats away as door prizes. Ron Lockhart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Cohen" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:38:29 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Like hey man, all your dude's out there are not feeling the love man. What you need to do is, like buy an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and after hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an airplane hauler man. Just think, you like hanging out at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7. All you need is a fridge, a generator for charging earth loving lipos, and some sleeping bags man. Plus, with all the nitro you are not using man, you could burn that instead of incense man. Peace! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it right now though,,,:0(. My Yukon is doing a number on my back... RS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle And there's really only two choices for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler looking. --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller wrote: From: mike mueller Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM Phil the Mega game is at $170 Million tonight.. Mike --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > From: Phil Spelt > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > ever win the Tn > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > Actually > I believe Ford > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > wrote: > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > in origin. Bill > > > > > > ----- Original Message > > > ----- > > > From: > > > Phil > > > Spelt > > > To: General > > > pattern discussion > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > PM > > > Subject: Re: > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > Vehicle > > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > > we're in > > > violent > > > agreement > > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > have fully restored, inside and out. > I love > to > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was > involved with > SCCA > > > racing in the > > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy and > drive > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > these days. 'Course, if I had > the money, I > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > car, since that's Ford, > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > =D> > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > I > > > do feel that a car is the most > expensive > consumer item > > > you buy and you ought > > > to try to keep as much of the > money here as > you > > > can. > > > --> There are only two types of > aircraft -- > fighters > > > and > > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > Past > > > President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, > > > Inc. > > > URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > mailing > > > list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > --> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > targets. > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > Past President, > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > URL: > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > My URL: > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > (865) 435-1476 v > (865) 604-0541 > c > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 17 12:27:11 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:27:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> You guys are going to make me jump in to list the Airtronics SD10G in the mix...Lol. $499 I'll leave it to others to espouse the virtues of it, other than to say it's a solid unit, good programming and ball bearing gimbals. -Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Don't overlook the soon-to-be-released (late September) Futaba 8FGA 8- Channel 2.4GHz FASST transmitter w/ Air R6008HS receiver (FUTK8000). It might not be "enough radio" for an experienced R/C aerobatics pilot, but it will be great for an up-and-coming R/C aerobatics pilot who's looking to upgrade their equipment. Tower Hobbies says they will sell it for $449.99. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:04 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think > of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It > looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or > 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 From billpritch at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 12:30:59 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:30:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <639371.65827.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <639371.65827.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <112897.24059.qm@web65113.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Like many, I have a drawer full of old 2 stroke tuned pipes - would probably make some nice bongs for this project. Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:59:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Far out dude! --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Michael Cohen wrote: > From: Michael Cohen > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > #yiv271696747 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > Like hey man, all your dude's out there are not > feeling the love man. What you need to do is, like buy > an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and > after hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an > airplane hauler man. Just think, you like hanging out > at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7. All > you need is a fridge, a generator for > charging earth loving lipos, and some sleeping > bags man. Plus, with all the nitro you are not > using man, you could burn that instead of incense man. > Peace! > > > > From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P > {padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage > {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it > right now though,,,:0(. My Yukon is doing a number on > my back... > RS > > > > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 > From: d_bodary at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > And there's really only two choices > for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with > stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler > looking. > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller > wrote: > > > From: mike mueller > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM > > > Phil the Mega game is at $170 > Million tonight.. Mike > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt > wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > > > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > > ever win the Tn > > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > > > Actually > > I believe Ford > > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > > > in origin. Bill > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message > > > > > ----- > > > > > From: > > > > > Phil > > > > > Spelt > > > > > To: General > > > > > pattern discussion > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, August > > > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > > > PM > > > > > Subject: Re: > > > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > > > Vehicle > > > > > > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe > > > > > we're in > > > > > violent > > > > > agreement > > > > > on this issue!! :-D > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > > > have fully restored, inside and > out. > > I love > > to > > > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was > > involved with > > SCCA > > > > > racing in the > > > > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy > and > > drive > > > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > > > these days. 'Course, if I > had > > the money, I > > > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > > > car, since that's Ford, > > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > > > =D> > > > > > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > do feel that a car is the > most > > expensive > > consumer item > > > > > you buy and you ought > > > > > to try to keep as much of > the > > money here as > > you > > > > > can. > > > > > --> There are only two types of > > aircraft -- > > fighters > > > > > and > > > > > targets. > > > > > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > > > Past > > > > > President, Knox County Radio Control > > Society, > > > > > Inc. > > > > > URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > > AMA--1294, Scientific > > > > > Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > > My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > > > > > > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 > c > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > > > mailing > > > > > list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > (865) 435-1476 v > > (865) 604-0541 > > c > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > Get back to school stuff for them > and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 17 12:34:11 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:34:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <112897.24059.qm@web65113.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <543174.89373.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Oh man, that's a great idea! I'll let you know what happens after band practice tomorrow night... LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: From: Bill Pritchett Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 4:30 PM Like many, I have a drawer full of old 2 stroke tuned pipes - would probably make some nice bongs for this project. ?Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:59:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Far out dude! --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Michael Cohen wrote: > From: Michael Cohen > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > #yiv271696747 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > >? > Like hey man, all your dude's out there are?not > feeling the love man.? What you need to do is, like buy > an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and > after?hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an > airplane hauler man.? Just think, you like hanging out > at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7.? All > you?need is a fridge, a generator for > charging?earth loving lipos, and some sleeping > bags?man.? Plus, with all the nitro you are not > using man, you could burn that instead of incense man.? > Peace! > ? > > > From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P > {padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage > {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it > right now though,,,:0(.? My Yukon is doing a number on > my back... > RS > ? > > > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 > From: d_bodary at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > And there's really only two choices > for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with > stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler > looking. > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller > wrote: > > > From: mike mueller > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM > > > Phil the Mega game is at $170 > Million tonight.. Mike > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt > wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > >? > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > > ever win the Tn > > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > > > ?Actually > > I believe Ford > > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > > > in origin.? Bill > > > > > > > > > >?? ----- Original Message > > > > > ----- > > > > >?? From: > > > > >?? Phil > > > > >?? Spelt > > > > >?? To: General > > > > > pattern discussion > > > > >?? > > > > >?? Sent: Sunday, August > > > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > > >?? PM > > > > >?? Subject: Re: > > > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > > >?? Vehicle > > > > >?? > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > > > > > we're in > > > > >?? violent > > > > > agreement > > > > >?? on this issue!!? :-D > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > > >?? have fully restored, inside and > out.? > > I love > > to > > > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > > >?? exhaust and racing suspension (I was > > involved with > > SCCA > > > > > racing in the > > > > >?? 60's).? Otherwise, I buy > and > > drive > > > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > > >?? these days.? 'Course, if I > had > > the money, I > > > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > > >?? car, since that's Ford, > > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > > >?? =D> > > > > > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >?? I > > > > >???? do feel that a car is the > most > > expensive > > consumer item > > > > > you buy and you ought > > > > >???? to try to keep as much of > the > > money here as > > you > > > > > can. > > > > >?? --> There are only two types of > > aircraft -- > > fighters > > > > > and > > > > >?? targets. > > > > > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > > > Past > > > > >?? President, Knox County Radio Control > > Society, > > > > >?? Inc. > > > > >??????? URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific > > > > >?? Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > >?????? My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > >?????? > > > > >?? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 > c > > > > >?? > > > > >?? > > > > > > > > > >?? > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > > >?? mailing > > > > >?? list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > ????? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >? > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > ?????? URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > ????? My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > ????? (865) 435-1476 v? > > (865) 604-0541 > > c? > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > Get back to school stuff for them > and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billpritch at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 12:39:38 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 20:39:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <543174.89373.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <543174.89373.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <316377.34994.qm@web65102.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> John - as a musician, I know EXACTLY what happens..... Have fun! Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:34:09 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Oh man, that's a great idea! I'll let you know what happens after band practice tomorrow night... LOL John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: >From: Bill Pritchett >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 4:30 PM > > > > >Like many, I have a drawer full of old 2 stroke tuned pipes - would probably make some nice bongs for this project. > > Bill Pritchett >Souled Out Entertainment >www.souledoutentertainment.biz >765-744-9322 > > > > > > > ________________________________ From: mike mueller >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:59:44 PM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > >Far out dude! > >--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Michael Cohen wrote: > >> From: Michael Cohen >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:38 AM >> >> >> >> #yiv271696747 .hmmessage P >> { >> margin:0px;padding:0px;} >> #yiv271696747 { >> font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} >> >> >> >> Like hey man, all your dude's out there are not >> feeling the love man. What you need to do is, like buy >> an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and >> after hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an >> airplane hauler man. Just think, you like hanging out >> at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7. All >> you need is a fridge, a generator for >> charging earth loving lipos, and some > sleeping >> bags man. Plus, with all the nitro you are not >> using man, you could burn that instead of incense man. >> Peace! >> >> >> >> From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >> >> >> >> #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P >> {padding:0px;} >> #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage >> {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} >> >> I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it >> > right now though,,,:0(. My Yukon is doing a number on >> my back... >> RS >> >> >> >> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 >> From: d_bodary at yahoo.com >> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >> >> >> >> >> >> And there's really only two choices >> for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with >> stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler >> looking. >> >> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller >> wrote: >> >> >> From: mike mueller >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> >> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM >> >> >> Phil the Mega game is at $170 >> Million tonight.. Mike >> >> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt >> wrote: >> >> > From: Phil Spelt >> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >> > To: "General pattern discussion" >> > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM >> > >> > >> > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I >> > ever win the Tn >> > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ >> > >> > >> > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: >> > >> > > Actually >> > I believe Ford >> > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike >> > >> > >> > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze >> > >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > > From: Bill Glaze >> > >> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >> > >> > > To: "General pattern discussion" >> > >> > >> > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Herbert--My Dad's >> > >> > > Father's name--definitely German >> > >> > > in origin. Bill >> > >> > > >> > >> > > ----- Original Message >> > >> > > ----- >> > >> > > From: >> > >> > > Phil >> > >> > > Spelt >> > >> > > To: General >> > >> > > pattern > discussion >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Sent: Sunday, August >> > >> > > 16, 2009 5:54 >> > >> > > PM >> > >> > > Subject: Re: >> > >> > > [NSRCA-discussion] New >> > >> > > Vehicle >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe >> > >> > > we're in >> > >> > > violent >> > >> > > agreement >> > >> > > on this issue!! :-D >> > >> > > >> > >> > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I >> > >> > > have fully restored, inside and >> out. >> > I love >> > to >> > >> > > > drive it with a full-flow >> > >> > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was >> > involved with >> > SCCA >> > >> > > racing in the >> > >> > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy >> and >> > drive >> > >> > > "American" -- whatever that means >> > >> > > these days. 'Course, if I >> had >> > the money, I >> > >> > > could buy a new Jag sports >> > >> > > car, since that's Ford, >> > now-a-days...maybe after I >> > >> > > win the Tennessee lottery. >> > >> > > =D> >> > >> > > >> > >> > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I >> > > >> > > do feel that a car is the >> most >> > expensive >> > consumer item >> > >> > > you buy and you ought >> > >> > > to try to keep as much of >> the >> > money here as >> > you >> > >> > > can. >> > >> > > --> There are only two types of >> > aircraft -- >> > fighters >> > >> > > and >> > >> > > targets. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & >> > >> > > Past >> > >> > > President, Knox County Radio Control >> > Society, >> > >> > > Inc. >> > >> > > URL: >> > > >> > http://www.kcrctn.com/ >> > >> > > AMA--1294, Scientific >> > >> > > Leader Member, SPA--177 >> > >> > > My URL: >> > >> > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/%7Echuenkan/ >> > >> > > >> > >> > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 >> c >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > > NSRCA-discussion >> > >> > > > mailing >> > >> > > list >> > >> > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > >> > > >> > >> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> > >> > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > >> > > >> > >> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> > >> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > >> > >> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > >> > --> >> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and >> > targets. >> > >> > >> > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & >> > Past President, >> > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. >> > >> > URL: >> > >> > http://www.kcrctn.com >> > >> > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >> > >> > My URL: >> > >> > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ >> > >> > (865) 435-1476 v >> > (865) 604-0541 >> > c > >> > >> > >> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> >> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try >> BingT now. >> Get back to school stuff for them >> and cashback for you. Try >> BingT now. >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 17 13:01:11 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:01:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <316377.34994.qm@web65102.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> No you never really know exactly what's going to happen. Just like a Pattern contest. That's what makes it so much fun. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: From: Bill Pritchett Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 4:39 PM John - as a musician, I know EXACTLY what happens.....?? Have fun! ?Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:34:09 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Oh man, that's a great idea! I'll let you know what happens after band practice tomorrow night... LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: From: Bill Pritchett Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 4:30 PM Like many, I have a drawer full of old 2 stroke tuned pipes - would probably make some nice bongs for this project. ?Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:59:44 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Far out dude! --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Michael Cohen wrote: > From: Michael Cohen > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:38 AM > > > > #yiv271696747 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > >? > Like hey man, all your dude's out there are?not > feeling the love man.? What you need to do is, like buy > an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and > after?hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an > airplane hauler man.? Just think, you like hanging out > at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7.? All > you?need is a fridge, a generator for > charging?earth loving lipos, and some sleeping > bags?man.? Plus, with all the nitro you are not > using man, you could burn that instead of incense man.? > Peace! > ? > > > From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P > {padding:0px;} > #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage > {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it > right now though,,,:0(.? My Yukon is doing a number on > my back... > RS > ? > > > Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 > From: d_bodary at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > > And there's really only two choices > for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with > stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler > looking. > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller > wrote: > > > From: mike mueller > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM > > > Phil the Mega game is at $170 > Million tonight.. Mike > > --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt > wrote: > > > From: Phil Spelt > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM > > > >? > > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I > > ever win the Tn > > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ > > > > > > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: > > > > ?Actually > > I believe Ford > > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Bill Glaze > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > > > > > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > Herbert--My Dad's > > > > > Father's name--definitely German > > > > > in origin.? Bill > > > > > > > > > >?? ----- Original Message > > > > > ----- > > > > >?? From: > > > > >?? Phil > > > > >?? Spelt > > > > >?? To: General > > > > > pattern discussion > > > > >?? > > > > >?? Sent: Sunday, August > > > > > 16, 2009 5:54 > > > > >?? PM > > > > >?? Subject: Re: > > > > > [NSRCA-discussion] New > > > > >?? Vehicle > > > > >?? > > > > > Here, Here, Jeff!!? I believe > > > > > we're in > > > > >?? violent > > > > > agreement > > > > >?? on this issue!!? :-D > > > > > > > > > > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I > > > > >?? have fully restored, inside and > out.? > > I love > > to > > > > > drive it with a full-flow > > > > >?? exhaust and racing suspension (I was > > involved with > > SCCA > > > > > racing in the > > > > >?? 60's).? Otherwise, I buy > and > > drive > > > > > "American" -- whatever that means > > > > >?? these days.? 'Course, if I > had > > the money, I > > > > > could buy a new Jag sports > > > > >?? car, since that's Ford, > > now-a-days...maybe after I > > > > > win the Tennessee lottery. > > > > >?? =D> > > > > > > > > > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >?? I > > > > >???? do feel that a car is the > most > > expensive > > consumer item > > > > > you buy and you ought > > > > >???? to try to keep as much of > the > > money here as > > you > > > > > can. > > > > >?? --> There are only two types of > > aircraft -- > > fighters > > > > > and > > > > >?? targets. > > > > > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > > > > Past > > > > >?? President, Knox County Radio Control > > Society, > > > > >?? Inc. > > > > >??????? URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com/ > > > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific > > > > >?? Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > >?????? My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/%7Echuenkan/ > > > > >?????? > > > > >?? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 > c > > > > >?? > > > > >?? > > > > > > > > > >?? > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion > > > > >?? mailing > > > > >?? list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > ????? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >? > > --> > > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and > > targets. > > > > > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & > > Past President, > > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. > > > > ?????? URL: > > > > http://www.kcrctn.com > > > > AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > > > > ????? My URL: > > > > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > > > > ????? (865) 435-1476 v? > > (865) 604-0541 > > c? > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > Get back to school stuff for them > and cashback for you. Try > BingT now. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billpritch at yahoo.com Mon Aug 17 13:04:13 2009 From: billpritch at yahoo.com (Bill Pritchett) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:04:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> my point exactly - it's going to be crazy fun...... details are unimportant! And yes, much like a pattern contest.....(only if your considering the entire experience of the weekend.....) ha! Bill Pritchett Souled Out Entertainment www.souledoutentertainment.biz 765-744-9322 ________________________________ From: John Pavlick To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 5:01:10 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle No you never really know exactly what's going to happen. Just like a Pattern contest. That's what makes it so much fun. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: >From: Bill Pritchett >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 4:39 PM > > > > >John - as a musician, I know EXACTLY what happens..... Have fun! > > Bill Pritchett >Souled Out Entertainment >www.souledoutentertainment.biz >765-744-9322 > > > > > > > ________________________________ From: John Pavlick >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:34:09 PM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > >Oh man, that's a great idea! I'll let you know what happens after band practice tomorrow night... LOL > >John Pavlick > >--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Bill Pritchett wrote: > > >>From: Bill Pritchett >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >>To: "General pattern discussion" >>Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 4:30 PM >> >> >> >> >>Like many, I have a drawer full of old 2 stroke tuned pipes - would probably make some nice bongs for this project. >> >> Bill Pritchett >>Souled Out Entertainment >>www.souledoutentertainment.biz >>765-744-9322 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: mike mueller >>To: General pattern discussion >>Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:59:44 PM >>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >> >>Far out dude! >> >>--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Michael Cohen wrote: >> >>> From: Michael Cohen >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:38 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> #yiv271696747 .hmmessage P >>> { >>> margin:0px;padding:0px;} >>> #yiv271696747 { >>> font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} >>> >>> >>> >>> Like hey man, all your dude's out there are not >>> feeling the love man. What you need to do is, like buy >>> an old yellow school bus man, grab a couple of friends and >>> after hanging out at Woodstock, like convert it into an >>> airplane hauler man. Just think, you like hanging out >>> at the field man, so, like why not hang out 24/7. All >>> you need is a fridge, a generator for >>> charging earth loving lipos, and some sleeping >>> bags man. Plus, with all the nitro you are not >>> using man, you could burn that instead of incense man. >>> >> Peace! >>> >>> >>> >>> From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com >>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:10:09 -0500 >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >>> >>> >>> >>> #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P >>> {padding:0px;} >>> #yiv271696747 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage >>> {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} >>> >>> I'm holding out for a Lincoln MKT...can't afford it >>> right now though,,,:0(. My Yukon is doing a number on >>> my back... >>> RS >>> >>> >>> >>> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 07:02:57 -0700 >>> From: d_bodary at yahoo.com >>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> And there's really only two choices >>> for a airplane hauler anymore. A Chrysler Minivan with >>> stow-n-go or the Ford Flex. The Ford Flex is much cooler >>> looking. >>> >>> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, mike mueller >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> From: mike mueller >>> Subject: Re: >> [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >>> To: "General pattern discussion" >>> >>> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 9:54 AM >>> >>> >>> Phil the Mega game is at $170 >>> Million tonight.. Mike >>> >>> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Phil Spelt >>> wrote: >>> >>> > From: Phil Spelt >>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >>> > To: "General pattern discussion" >>> > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 8:30 AM >>> > >>> > >>> > Whoops, there goes that option, then -- IF I >>> > ever win the Tn >>> > Lottery -- gotta play, first, though. :-[ >>> > >>> > >>> > At 08:32 AM 8/17/2009, you wrote: >>> > >>> > Actually >>> > I believe Ford >>> > sold Jag and Land Rover to an Indian company. Mike >>> > >>> > >>> > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, Bill Glaze >>> > >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > > From: Bill Glaze >>> > >>> >> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle >>> > >>> > > To: "General pattern discussion" >>> > >>> > >>> > > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 7:53 PM >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > Herbert--My Dad's >>> > >>> > > Father's name--definitely German >>> > >>> > > in origin. Bill >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > ----- Original Message >>> > >>> > > ----- >>> > >>> > > >> From: >>> > >>> > > Phil >>> > >>> > > Spelt >>> > >>> > > To: General >>> > >>> > > pattern discussion >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > Sent: Sunday, August >>> > >>> > > 16, 2009 5:54 >>> > >>> > > PM >>> > >>> > > Subject: Re: >>> > >>> > > [NSRCA-discussion] New >>> > >>> > > Vehicle >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > Here, Here, Jeff!! I believe >>> > >>> > > we're in >>> > >>> > > violent >>> > >>> > > agreement >>> > >>> > > on this issue!! :-D >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > As I said, I have an '83 Mazda RX-7 which I >>> > >>> > > have fully restored, inside and >>> out. >>> > I love >>> > to >>> > >>> > > drive it with a full-flow >>> > >>> > > exhaust and racing suspension (I was >>> > involved with >>> > SCCA >>> > >>> > > racing in the >>> > >>> > > 60's). Otherwise, I buy >>> and >>> > drive >>> > >>> > > "American" -- whatever that means >>> > >>> > > these days. 'Course, if I >>> had >>> > the money, I >>> > >>> > > could buy a new Jag sports >>> > >>> > > car, since that's Ford, >>> > now-a-days...maybe after I >>> > >>> > > win the Tennessee lottery. >>> > >>> > >> > =D> >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > At 05:14 PM 8/16/2009, you wrote: >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > I >>> > >>> > > do feel that a car is the >>> most >>> > expensive >>> > consumer item >>> > >>> > > you buy and you ought >>> > >>> > > to try to keep as much of >>> the >>> > money here as >>> > you >>> > >>> > > can. >>> > >>> > > --> There are only two types of >>> > aircraft -- >>> > fighters >>> > >>> > > and >>> > >>> > > targets. >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & >>> > >>> > > Past >>> > >>> > >> > President, Knox County Radio Control >>> > Society, >>> > >>> > > Inc. >>> > >>> > > URL: >>> > >>> > http://www.kcrctn.com/ >>> > >>> > > AMA--1294, Scientific >>> > >>> > > Leader Member, SPA--177 >>> > >>> > > My URL: >>> > >>> > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/%7Echuenkan/ >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 >>> c >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> > > NSRCA-discussion >>> > >>> > > mailing >>> > >>> > > list >>> > >>> > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > > >> _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> > >>> > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > >>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> > >>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> > >>> > >>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> > >>> > --> >>> > There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and >>> > targets. >>> > >>> > >>> > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & >>> > Past President, >>> > Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. >>> > >>> > URL: >>> > >>> > http://www.kcrctn.com/ >>> > >>> > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >>> > >>> > My URL: >>> > >>> > http://mywebpages.comcast.net/%7Echuenkan/ >>> > >>> > >> (865) 435-1476 v >>> > (865) 604-0541 >>> > c >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try >>> BingT now. >>> Get back to school stuff for them >>> and cashback for you. Try >>> BingT now. >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing >> list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >>-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Mon Aug 17 15:58:29 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 23:58:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Message-ID: <20090817235829.3B95B1161C@bridi.netexpress.com> Hmmm...espouse the virtues...like easy to program, comes with a set of heavy springs if the originals feel too light, all switches are 3 position and fully assignable, 5 flight modes with each mode having triple rates and each rate having its own expo....the list goes on but suffice to say I really love my SD10 and that is saying something considering how much I loved my Multiplex. Pete Cosky Sent from my Windows Mobile device -----Original Message----- From: Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG You guys are going to make me jump in to list the Airtronics SD10G in the mix...Lol. $499 I'll leave it to others to espouse the virtues of it, other than to say it's a solid unit, good programming and ball bearing gimbals. -Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Don't overlook the soon-to-be-released (late September) Futaba 8FGA 8- Channel 2.4GHz FASST transmitter w/ Air R6008HS receiver (FUTK8000). It might not be "enough radio" for an experienced R/C aerobatics pilot, but it will be great for an up-and-coming R/C aerobatics pilot who's looking to upgrade their equipment. Tower Hobbies says they will sell it for $449.99. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:04 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think > of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It [The entire original message is not included] From jaqfly at prodigy.net Mon Aug 17 17:13:24 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 01:13:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> I have the new Airtronics 10G and it is a super radio at anny price. It is hard to beat! ?Jim Quinn ----- Original Message ---- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:20:25 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG You guys are going to make me jump in to list the Airtronics SD10G in the mix...Lol.? $499 I'll leave it to others to espouse the virtues of it, other than to say it's a solid unit, good programming and ball bearing gimbals. -Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Don't overlook the soon-to-be-released (late September) Futaba 8FGA 8- Channel 2.4GHz FASST transmitter w/ Air R6008HS receiver (FUTK8000).? It might not be "enough radio" for an experienced R/C aerobatics? pilot, but it will be great for an up-and-coming R/C aerobatics pilot? who's looking to upgrade their equipment.? Tower Hobbies says they? will sell it for $449.99. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:04 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think? > of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It? > looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or? > 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 17 18:42:44 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:42:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > I have the new Airtronics 10G and it is a super radio at anny > price. It is hard to beat! > Jim Quinn > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:20:25 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG > > You guys are going to make me jump in to list the Airtronics SD10G > in the mix...Lol. $499 > > I'll leave it to others to espouse the virtues of it, other than to > say it's a solid unit, good programming and ball bearing gimbals. > > -Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:01 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG > > Don't overlook the soon-to-be-released (late September) Futaba 8FGA 8- > Channel 2.4GHz FASST transmitter w/ Air R6008HS receiver (FUTK8000). > It might not be "enough radio" for an experienced R/C aerobatics > pilot, but it will be great for an up-and-coming R/C aerobatics pilot > who's looking to upgrade their equipment. Tower Hobbies says they > will sell it for $449.99. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:04 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > >> Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think >> of the >> Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It >> looks like >> it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or >> 12Z. >> Pros and Cons Please. >> Jim Hiller >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: > 08/17/09 06:08:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 17 18:50:12 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:50:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9255@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Hey Ron, Global Hobby is the US distributor of Airtronics. That said, Tower does carry ATX stuff via Global. But if you're a hobby shop you'll want to go direct to Global (Hobby People). They (Sanwa) got rid of Airtronics USA and followed the Futaba/Great Planes, JR/Horizon model and selected Global as their exclusive distributor. Contact me offlist if you need/want more info or contact info. -Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:43 PM To: Jim Quinn; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > I have the new Airtronics 10G and it is a super radio at anny > price. It is hard to beat! > Jim Quinn > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:20:25 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG > > You guys are going to make me jump in to list the Airtronics SD10G > in the mix...Lol. $499 > > I'll leave it to others to espouse the virtues of it, other than to > say it's a solid unit, good programming and ball bearing gimbals. > > -Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:01 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG > > Don't overlook the soon-to-be-released (late September) Futaba 8FGA 8- > Channel 2.4GHz FASST transmitter w/ Air R6008HS receiver (FUTK8000). > It might not be "enough radio" for an experienced R/C aerobatics > pilot, but it will be great for an up-and-coming R/C aerobatics pilot > who's looking to upgrade their equipment. Tower Hobbies says they > will sell it for $449.99. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:04 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > >> Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think >> of the >> Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It >> looks like >> it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or >> 12Z. >> Pros and Cons Please. >> Jim Hiller >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: > 08/17/09 06:08:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 From wemodels at cox.net Mon Aug 17 18:50:38 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:50:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> Ron Van Putte wrote: > OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great > Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. > > Ron VP http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0002p?P=SM&M=AIR The SD-10G radio: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXXMY3 From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 17 18:55:18 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 02:55:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9257@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Ouch! They jack that up a little. Most places you'll find it for $499 with the 10ch rx or $459 with the 7ch Rx. http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751750.asp http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751747.asp -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Ron Van Putte wrote: > OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great > Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. > > Ron VP http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0002p?P=SM&M=AIR The SD-10G radio: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXXMY3 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 17 19:02:50 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:02:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> Message-ID: <6FE02DDC-A30F-4226-B173-4E9F06C1069A@cox.net> That's interesting. Great Planes is Tower Hobbies "parent", but, even though Great Planes doesn't seem to carry Airtronics radio, Tower Hobbies does? I even did a search on Airtronics 10CG on the Tower Hobbies and it didn't come up. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 9:50 PM, Bill's Email wrote: > Ron Van Putte wrote: >> OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great >> Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. >> >> Ron VP > > http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0002p?P=SM&M=AIR > > > The SD-10G radio: > > http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXXMY3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Mon Aug 17 19:04:50 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:04:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9257@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9257@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <4A8A1A50.5040703@cox.net> OK, I was only posting the link to Tower and that they carry it. It makes sense taht Hobby People sells it for less. I'm willing to bet that it is not so much Tower "jacking" it up as Tower not getting the same wholesale price as Hobby People does. Plus $30 does seem that severe, with the various deals Tower has it could even cost less than $499 if you worked it right. Just a thought. Atwood, Mark wrote: > Ouch! They jack that up a little. Most places you'll find it for $499 with the 10ch rx or $459 with the 7ch Rx. > > http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751750.asp > > http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751747.asp > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:51 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG > > Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great >> Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. >> >> Ron VP >> > > > http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0002p?P=SM&M=AIR > > > The SD-10G radio: > > http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXXMY3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Mon Aug 17 19:08:04 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:08:04 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <6FE02DDC-A30F-4226-B173-4E9F06C1069A@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> <6FE02DDC-A30F-4226-B173-4E9F06C1069A@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A8A1B12.2020906@cox.net> Ron Van Putte wrote: > That's interesting. Great Planes is Tower Hobbies "parent", but, even > though Great Planes doesn't seem to carry Airtronics radio, Tower > Hobbies does? I even did a search on Airtronics 10CG on the Tower > Hobbies and it didn't come up. > > Ron VP > Tower is the retail vendor for Hobbico. Great Planes is also part of Hobbico. Hobbico is the "parent company" for both of them. BTW search for this: Airtronics SD-10G That is the product name they use. From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 17 19:10:09 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:10:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB852@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Touche It surprised me though, as all of the promotional literature has listed it for $499. That's the first place I've seen it higher, but you could easily be correct. -M -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Aug 17 23:04:48 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG OK, I was only posting the link to Tower and that they carry it. It makes sense taht Hobby People sells it for less. I'm willing to bet that it is not so much Tower "jacking" it up as Tower not getting the same wholesale price as Hobby People does. Plus $30 does seem that severe, with the various deals Tower has it could even cost less than $499 if you worked it right. Just a thought. Atwood, Mark wrote: Ouch! They jack that up a little. Most places you'll find it for $499 with the 10ch rx or $459 with the 7ch Rx. http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751750.asp http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751747.asp -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Ron Van Putte wrote: OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. Ron VP http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0002p?P=SM&M=AIR The SD-10G radio: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXXMY3 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 17 19:17:13 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:17:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <4A8A1B12.2020906@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> <6FE02DDC-A30F-4226-B173-4E9F06C1069A@cox.net> <4A8A1B12.2020906@cox.net> Message-ID: <12617E4F-5D52-451A-89E1-F8861EF4D9D7@cox.net> You're right on the Airtronics designation. I was misled by some of the earlier postings. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Bill's Email wrote: > Ron Van Putte wrote: >> That's interesting. Great Planes is Tower Hobbies "parent", but, >> even though Great Planes doesn't seem to carry Airtronics radio, >> Tower Hobbies does? I even did a search on Airtronics 10CG on the >> Tower Hobbies and it didn't come up. >> >> Ron VP >> > Tower is the retail vendor for Hobbico. Great Planes is also part > of Hobbico. Hobbico is the "parent company" for both of them. > > BTW search for this: Airtronics SD-10G That is the product name > they use. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Mon Aug 17 19:27:12 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:27:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <12617E4F-5D52-451A-89E1-F8861EF4D9D7@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> <6FE02DDC-A30F-4226-B173-4E9F06C1069A@cox.net> <4A8A1B12.2020906@cox.net> <12617E4F-5D52-451A-89E1-F8861EF4D9D7@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A8A1F8E.8000301@cox.net> Ron Van Putte wrote: > You're right on the Airtronics designation. I was misled by some of > the earlier postings. > > Ron VP > Tower's search engine is a little too particular if you ask me. If you have an extra space or a missing hyphen you get nothing back. Kind of a pain. I've picked up the Airtronics TX. It has a nice heft to it, but you can have my 14MZ when you pry it from my...... Well, you get the idea!! From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 17 19:36:51 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ron Van Putte) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 03:36:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <4A8A1F8E.8000301@cox.net> References: <979C6B59-878B-412F-A85D-B7EC2E212FDF@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <168847.77590.qm@web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <5B1011C0-90AB-47A1-93FC-8ABC1410B9E7@cox.net> <4A8A16FC.30902@cox.net> <6FE02DDC-A30F-4226-B173-4E9F06C1069A@cox.net> <4A8A1B12.2020906@cox.net> <12617E4F-5D52-451A-89E1-F8861EF4D9D7@cox.net> <4A8A1F8E.8000301@cox.net> Message-ID: <6781A80E-1887-4339-B987-B6B751E8CE33@cox.net> Yes, I get the idea and, even though Mark Atwood is a funny, easy going guy most of the time, I think you'd be hard pressed to pry the Airtronics 2.4 GHz radio from his grasp too. I like my Futaba 12 FGA as well. In the hands of a good pilot, it flies my competition airplane very well. I just wish it would do it for me. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Bill's Email wrote: > Ron Van Putte wrote: >> You're right on the Airtronics designation. I was misled by some >> of the earlier postings. >> >> Ron VP >> > > Tower's search engine is a little too particular if you ask me. If > you have an extra space or a missing hyphen you get nothing back. > Kind of a pain. > > I've picked up the Airtronics TX. It has a nice heft to it, but you > can have my 14MZ when you pry it from my...... Well, you get the > idea!! > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 04:24:27 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:24:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB852@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB852@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <258749.76114.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I purchased my SD-10G through Tower because Hobby People had it on Back Order. Tower had a $50 off coupon at the time so it was a wash. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: "nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:03:22 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Touche It surprised me though, as all of the promotional literature has listed it for $499. That's the first place I've seen it higher, but you could easily be correct. -M -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Aug 17 23:04:48 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG OK, I was only posting the link to Tower and that they carry it. It makes sense taht Hobby People sells it for less. I'm willing to bet that it is not so much Tower "jacking" it up as Tower not getting the same wholesale price as Hobby People does. Plus $30 does seem that severe, with the various deals Tower has it could even cost less than $499 if you worked it right. Just a thought. Atwood, Mark wrote: Ouch! They jack that up a little. Most places you'll find it for $499 with the 10ch rx or $459 with the 7ch Rx. http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751750.asp http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751747.asp -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Ron Van Putte wrote: OK, I give up. What distributor handles Airtronics radios? Great Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. Ron VP http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0002p?P=SM&M=AIR The SD-10G radio: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXXMY3 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From bob at toprudder.com Tue Aug 18 04:35:35 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:35:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13935.61448.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> The 10C is a good radio. However, as others have mentioned, the sticks are not ball bearing. It also does not have flight conditions. Other than that, I have been happy with the programming features available. ? The original 10C allows both 2.4g and the old 72mhz modules. Once you have started flying 2.4, you won't go back, IMHO. ? The 10CG does not have a module, the 2.4g rf circuitry is internal. It has the antenna on the top of the case where the old 72mhz antenna resided. ? Adding a 2.4 module to the 9C has limitations. First, it is not native 2.4g modulation, the radio must be in PPM mode so latency is not as good as the 10C, 12Z, 12FG, 14MZ? Also, the TM-8 module (which fits the 9C) has a switch that must be flipped to change between the 7ch and 8ch modes. You will want?the 8ch reciever for you pattern plane (higher resolution) but if you also fly sport or foamy planes you will want something smaller.? This means you will have to flip the switch, which is small and not meant to be changed frequently. With the 10c and higher, this setting is programmed in the radio for each model. I have the 10C and like it, but if I had it to do over again I probably would go for the 12FG.? Or, maybe, the Airtronics.? :-) ? Bob R. --- On Mon, 8/17/09, J N Hiller wrote: Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think of the Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It looks like it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or 12Z. Pros and Cons Please. Jim Hiller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 04:49:01 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 12:49:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <6781A80E-1887-4339-B987-B6B751E8CE33@cox.net> Message-ID: <424062.525.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I heard Mark's having a modification done to his new 2,4 SD10 Airtronics where a voice comes on each time he turns on the radio and reminds him to put fuel in his #1 plane before he takes off. My new Airtronics (yes!!!!!) will remind me not to connect the positive and negatives from my 42 volt lipo together and start a three mile island like melt down. Oh yeah not once but twice this year! By the way seperate 6MM bullet connectors stink! Going back to deans ultra's or the HK 4MM connectors is a lot safer. Mike --- On Mon, 8/17/09, Ron Van Putte wrote: > From: Ron Van Putte > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:36 PM > Yes, I get the idea and, even though > Mark Atwood is a funny, easy going guy most of the time, I > think you'd be hard pressed to pry the Airtronics 2.4 GHz > radio from his grasp too. > > I like my Futaba 12 FGA as well.? In the hands of a > good pilot, it flies my competition airplane very > well.? I just wish it would do it for me. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 17, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Bill's Email wrote: > > > Ron Van Putte wrote: > >> You're right on the Airtronics designation.? > I was misled by some of the earlier postings. > >> > >> Ron VP > >> > > > > Tower's search engine is a little too particular if > you ask me. If you have an extra space or a missing hyphen > you get nothing back. Kind of a pain. > > > > I've picked up the Airtronics TX. It has a nice heft > to it, but you can have my 14MZ when you pry it from > my...... Well, you get the idea!! > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From pcosky at comcast.net Tue Aug 18 07:43:23 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:43:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airtronics SD-10G References: <424062.525.qm@web51001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6A8EC150F4324DE38189FAD33256281E@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Just an FYI - I just got off the phone with Dave Thacker at Radical RC in Dayton, OH and he is willing to cut a deal with the pattern guys on the SD-10G and RXs. When I bought mine I needed spare RXs and he sold them to me for a great price so I asked him if he would help the pattern community and he said yes. His e-mail is davthacker at aol.com and the store phone number is 937-256-7727 make sure you tell him your a pattern pilot. I hope this helps some of you guys.... Pete From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Tue Aug 18 07:58:33 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 15:58:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <258749.76114.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <552645.93996.qm@web112615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I saw this at?Weak Signals for the first time and just checked the list of features. Wow that thing is packed with stuff for $500!! --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 8:24 AM I purchased my SD-10G through Tower because Hobby People had it on Back Order.? Tower had a $50 off coupon at the time so it was a wash. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: "nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org" Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 11:03:22 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Touche It surprised me though, as all of the promotional literature has listed it for $499.???That's the first place I've seen it higher, but you could easily be correct. -M -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Aug 17 23:04:48 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG OK, I was only posting the link to Tower and that they carry it. It makes sense taht Hobby People sells it for less. I'm willing to bet that it is not so much Tower "jacking" it up as Tower not getting the same wholesale price as Hobby People does. Plus $30 does seem that severe, with the various deals Tower has it could even cost less than $499 if you worked it right. Just a thought. Atwood, Mark wrote: ? ? Ouch!? They jack that up a little.? Most places you'll find it for $499 with the 10ch rx or $459 with the 7ch Rx. ? ? ? ? http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751750.asp ? ? ? ? http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751747.asp ? ? ? ? -----Original Message----- ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email ? ? Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 10:51 PM ? ? To: General pattern discussion ? ? Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG ? ? ? ? Ron Van Putte wrote: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? OK, I give up.? What distributor handles Airtronics radios?? Great ? ? ? ? Planes and Horizon Hobby don't seem to. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Ron VP ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0002p?P=SM&M=AIR ? ? ? ? ? ? The SD-10G radio: ? ? ? ? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXXMY3 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? NSRCA-discussion mailing list ? ? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ? ? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? ? No virus found in this incoming message. ? ? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com ? ? Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 ? ? _______________________________________________ ? ? NSRCA-discussion mailing list ? ? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ? ? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer? 8. Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at http://downloads.yahoo.com/ca/internetexplorer/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 18 09:39:33 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 17:39:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Message-ID: A big thank you to all who replied. I had not followed the development of the new radio systems and deeded the pointers. At this point I'm undecided and can get by this season with what I have. I can also ask others at the contests I attend what they like about their systems. Thanks again Jim Hiller From pcosky at comcast.net Tue Aug 18 10:22:45 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:22:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC Message-ID: <2FA16EA47C7045659427020A413477F0@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Does anyone have any technical knowledge of the JETI ESC? Particularly about how the heatsink is attached and whether there is an electrical connection to the heatsink? Please contact me offlist at pcosky at comcast.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 18 10:59:40 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 18:59:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC In-Reply-To: <2FA16EA47C7045659427020A413477F0@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Message-ID: <972546.52696.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Not sure. The best way to figure that out is to lick your finger, put it on the heatsink and power that baby up. Let us know what happens... LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Pete Cosky wrote: From: Pete Cosky Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 2:22 PM Does anyone have any technical knowledge of the JETI ESC? Particularly about how the heatsink is attached and whether there is an electrical connection to the heatsink? ? Please contact me offlist at pcosky at comcast.net -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 18 11:03:49 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 19:03:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC In-Reply-To: <2FA16EA47C7045659427020A413477F0@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> References: <2FA16EA47C7045659427020A413477F0@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Message-ID: If it looks like the Hacker Master/Master Spin units, there are screws under the decal on front at each corner--peel up the corners or drive right through them. There is a little softer 'stuff' between the what look like little ICs and the heat-sink--but just pulls apart OK. If you burned one of the (there's a technical term for them that isn't coming to mind) IC looking things, I think they are (almost) impossible to replace. I sent my Hacker TO Hacker in Europe and they replaced (and up-graded) it for 35-40 bucks--after about the same in shipping. I would imagine Jeti has a similar plan--hopefully in the States--but keep looking as Hacker HERE(Yuma) said--"Nope, you're screwed--it's junk" AND I SAID " You GOTTA be shitting me--on a 400 buck controller!!?"" That's when I contacted Hacker in Germany--nice folks... All news to Hacker in Yuma... Good luck, Richard From: pcosky at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:22:30 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC Does anyone have any technical knowledge of the JETI ESC? Particularly about how the heatsink is attached and whether there is an electrical connection to the heatsink? Please contact me offlist at pcosky at comcast.net _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 18 12:09:39 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:09:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <51C924C4E5E7424A80456DFA222C4514@jaysdesktop> Usually that "stuff" between the ICs and the heat sink is a thermal compound which helps the heat conduction. Usually there isn't a deliberate electrical connection to the sinks but it may happen. Don't purposely short the sink to something else. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 3:04 PM To: General pattern discussion; pcosky at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC If it looks like the Hacker Master/Master Spin units, there are screws under the decal on front at each corner--peel up the corners or drive right through them. There is a little softer 'stuff' between the what look like little ICs and the heat-sink--but just pulls apart OK. If you burned one of the (there's a technical term for them that isn't coming to mind) IC looking things, I think they are (almost) impossible to replace. I sent my Hacker TO Hacker in Europe and they replaced (and up-graded) it for 35-40 bucks--after about the same in shipping. I would imagine Jeti has a similar plan--hopefully in the States--but keep looking as Hacker HERE(Yuma) said--"Nope, you're screwed--it's junk" AND I SAID " You GOTTA be shitting me--on a 400 buck controller!!?"" That's when I contacted Hacker in Germany--nice folks... All news to Hacker in Yuma... Good luck, Richard _____ From: pcosky at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 14:22:30 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JETI ESC Does anyone have any technical knowledge of the JETI ESC? Particularly about how the heatsink is attached and whether there is an electrical connection to the heatsink? Please contact me offlist at pcosky at comcast.net _____ HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 18 12:09:57 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 20:09:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57E9249@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Mark I'm having difficulty contacting you directly. HELP Jim Hiller jnhiller at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 1:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG You guys are going to make me jump in to list the Airtronics SD10G in the mix...Lol. $499 I'll leave it to others to espouse the virtues of it, other than to say it's a solid unit, good programming and ball bearing gimbals. -Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 4:01 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Futaba 10CAG Don't overlook the soon-to-be-released (late September) Futaba 8FGA 8- Channel 2.4GHz FASST transmitter w/ Air R6008HS receiver (FUTK8000). It might not be "enough radio" for an experienced R/C aerobatics pilot, but it will be great for an up-and-coming R/C aerobatics pilot who's looking to upgrade their equipment. Tower Hobbies says they will sell it for $449.99. Ron VP On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:04 PM, J N Hiller wrote: > Had a problem with my old 72mh stuff yesterday. What do you think > of the > Futaba 10CAG 2.4GHz system? Is this an adequate pattern radio? It > looks like > it offers a little more than my 9C. OR should I consider a 12FGA or > 12Z. > Pros and Cons Please. > Jim Hiller > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/17/09 06:08:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mups1953 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 14:17:00 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:17:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts Message-ID: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a better place to get an answer than you guys so here it goes. Mike, I know that you?ve been in the pattern flying for some time. I am trying to buy some property and found a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres removed. I put a triangle to it and I would still overfly as the ?box? doesn?t fit in the acreage, 1350? x 1000?. Do you have a recommended acreage size for a field? Just curious. Russ Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 18 14:23:26 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:23:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A8B29DD.50207@cox.net> mike mueller wrote: > A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. > Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a better place to get an answer than you guys so here it goes. > > Mike, I know that you?ve been in the pattern flying for some time. I am trying to buy some property and found a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres removed. I put a triangle to it and I would still overfly as the ?box? doesn?t fit in the acreage, 1350? x 1000?. Do you have a recommended acreage size for a field? Just curious. > > Russ > > Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller > There are 43,460 square feet in an acre. The above box is 1,350,000 square feet, or 31 acres. The original square 40 acre parcel would have been 1,320 feet on each side. Field configuration depends a lot on where that 10 acres was removed from the original 40 acres. From schale at optonline.net Tue Aug 18 14:27:02 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:27:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A8B2ABB.4070904@optonline.net> Nice friend. I wish I had a friend who was buying some property to fly pattern :) Just the flying area alone figuring a 60 degree box and a max of 175 yds out would be 525 feet (175 yds) by 1818 feet (606 yds) The sides of a 30 60 90 triangle are x, 2x and x times the square root of 3 x is the distance out 2x is along the 60 degree lines. Of course you would not like houses right on the edge of your box to fly over. Stuart C. mike mueller wrote: > A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. > Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a better place to get an answer than you guys so here it goes. > > Mike, I know that you?ve been in the pattern flying for some time. I am trying to buy some property and found a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres removed. I put a triangle to it and I would still overfly as the ?box? doesn?t fit in the acreage, 1350? x 1000?. Do you have a recommended acreage size for a field? Just curious. > > Russ > > Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 18 14:27:19 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Tue, 18 Aug 2009 22:27:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: <4A8B29DD.50207@cox.net> References: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4A8B29DD.50207@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A8B2AC6.1090703@cox.net> Excuse my dyslexic typo, an acre is 43,560 square feet Bill's Email wrote: > mike mueller wrote: >> A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. >> Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the last thing >> I know about is acreage. I can't think of a better place to get an >> answer than you guys so here it goes. >> >> Mike, I know that you?ve been in the pattern flying for some time. >> I am trying to buy some property and found a 30 acre plot that was a >> square 40 acre with 10 acres removed. I put a triangle to it and I >> would still overfly as the ?box? doesn?t fit in the acreage, 1350? x >> 1000?. Do you have a recommended acreage size for a field? Just >> curious. >> >> Russ >> >> Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller >> > > > There are 43,460 square feet in an acre. The above box is 1,350,000 > square feet, or 31 acres. > > The original square 40 acre parcel would have been 1,320 feet on each > side. > > Field configuration depends a lot on where that 10 acres was removed > from the original 40 acres. > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From dunnaway at hbcomm.net Tue Aug 18 16:34:19 2009 From: dunnaway at hbcomm.net (dunnaway) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:34:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts Message-ID: <20090818193408.SM02308@[63.245.131.178]> Mike,??? ???The AMA has a recommended specification for flying sites.?? It can be found on page 5 of this document on the AMA website.? http://modelaircraft.org/files/memanual.pdf Joe Dunnaway -----Original Message----- From: "mike mueller" Sent 8/18/2009 5:16:58 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a better place to get an answer than you guys so here it goes. Mike, I know that you?ve been in the pattern flying for some time. I am trying to buy some property and found a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres removed. I put a triangle to it and I would still overfly as the ?box? doesn?t fit in the acreage, 1350? x 1000?. Do you have a recommended acreage size for a field? Just curious. Russ Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xaviermouraux at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 17:49:01 2009 From: xaviermouraux at yahoo.com (Xavier Mouraux) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 01:49:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D 1 Pattern in Paradise In-Reply-To: <110570.24533.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <126771.38038.qm@web38906.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks Jim for a great event. Even the weather cooperated. See you next year. Here are some pictures of the weekend: http://picasaweb.google.com/xavier.mouraux/ParadiseRCPatternContest2009# Xavier --- On Wed, 8/12/09, Jim Quinn wrote: > From: Jim Quinn > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D 1 Pattern in Paradise P 11 > To: "General pattern discussion" > Received: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 6:48 PM > FAI Pilots all is ready for P11 at > Pattern in Paradise this weekend, even the weather looks > great! > ? > Jim Quinn > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > __________________________________________________________________ Ask a question on any topic and get answers from real people. Go to Yahoo! Answers and share what you know at http://ca.answers.yahoo.com From wemodels at cox.net Tue Aug 18 18:00:33 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:00:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: <20090818193408.SM02308@[63.245.131.178]> References: <20090818193408.SM02308@[63.245.131.178]> Message-ID: <4A8B5CBE.6000600@cox.net> That is a great resource, but keep in mind that it is not binding or required that you follow any of what the AMA presents under their recommendations. If you can follow them it will result in a very nice site, but if you cannot then you just do the best you can with the area you have to work with. Many people think that the AMA recommendations MUST be followed, and taht is not the case. dunnaway wrote: > Mike, > The AMA has a recommended specification for flying sites. It can > be found on page 5 of this document on the AMA website. > http://modelaircraft.org/files/memanual.pdf -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dunnaway at hbcomm.net Tue Aug 18 18:16:29 2009 From: dunnaway at hbcomm.net (dunnaway) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:16:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts Message-ID: <200908182116220.SM00904@[63.245.131.178]> I agree.?? Most clubs in our area don't own the overfly area.? They only own or lease 10 acres or so and?the overfly area is usually a field owned by a farmer. -----Original Message----- From: "Bill's Email" Sent 8/18/2009 9:00:30 PM To: "General pattern discussion" Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts That is a great resource, but keep in mind that it is not binding or required that you follow any of what the AMA presents under their recommendations. If you can follow them it will result in a very nice site, but if you cannot then you just do the best you can with the area you have to work with. Many people think that the AMA recommendations MUST be followed, and taht is not the case. dunnaway wrote: Mike,??? ???The AMA has a recommended specification for flying sites.?? It can be found on page 5 of this document on the AMA website.? http://modelaircraft.org/files/memanual.pdf_______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xaviermouraux at yahoo.com Tue Aug 18 18:19:06 2009 From: xaviermouraux at yahoo.com (Xavier Mouraux) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:19:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Scott Smith In-Reply-To: <4A8B5CBE.6000600@cox.net> Message-ID: <340388.40756.qm@web38907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Scott, please contact me offlist at xaviermouraux at yahoo.com Thanks Xavier __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ From burtona at atmc.net Tue Aug 18 18:43:44 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 02:43:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <722989.46956.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008b01ca2076$e976d7b0$bc648710$@net> An old rule of thumb I remember from years ago was that an RC flying field needed 100 acres to fly over. I'd think in today's environment it's probably hard to find many fields with that much area especially along the East coast. I have 28 acres at my flying field at my home but no neighbors within 400-500 feet from my boundary so I have enough room to fly without causing a problem. Now if I could only convince my sister (co-owner) of the need to cut a few more trees at the North end........ Dave Burton -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:17 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a better place to get an answer than you guys so here it goes. Mike, I know that youve been in the pattern flying for some time. I am trying to buy some property and found a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres removed. I put a triangle to it and I would still overfly as the box doesnt fit in the acreage, 1350 x 1000. Do you have a recommended acreage size for a field? Just curious. Russ Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jlachow at hotmail.com Wed Aug 19 05:52:44 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:52:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] For Sale Message-ID: I have a single Thunderpower 5S 5300 V2 Prolite Lipo pack for sale. Asking $185 shipped. Contact off list if interested. _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dentdoc007 at comcast.net Wed Aug 19 06:56:58 2009 From: dentdoc007 at comcast.net (C. Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:56:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes Message-ID: This came across the GMA Club Email today. Linda followed this List & some of you knew her. I bring sad news to our club today...GMA Member, Linda Carnes pass away Monday! Please join me and our Board to pray for Linda's family, friends and associates as we deal with the loss of such a great lady. Many of you have known Linda for years...I have only had the opportunity to know her for the last five years. To me, Linda was the true illustration of a servant ...always the first to sign up for helping with food for all events. Linda also stepped up to the plate whenever we had a need for flight instructors/trainers to cover a field trip visit to GMA. It's amazing how an event like this makes us realize just how blessed we are to have the people we have around us...until they are gone! Linda had a heart for this club and the hobby...and she will be deeply missed. In contacting the Funeral Home, the family has asked that instead of flowers, that donations be made to our club in her honor. We will return these funds to our community involvement with Big Brother Big Sister and our efforts to help Forsyth County schools with their RC Clubs. A Memorial Service is scheduled for 11:00 a.m tomorrow, Thursday at the Roper Funeral Home in Jasper, GA. Deeply saddened, Rex Briant -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Wed Aug 19 07:11:18 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:11:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C4ACA1391D94941985A3CA3D679F8A0@Tony> That is very sad. I met Linda several years ago. She was also helpful and would do what she could for others to enjoy pattern and modeling in general. She will be missed! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of C. Smith Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:57 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes This came across the GMA Club Email today. Linda followed this List & some of you knew her. I bring sad news to our club today...GMA Member, Linda Carnes pass away Monday! Please join me and our Board to pray for Linda's family, friends and associates as we deal with the loss of such a great lady. Many of you have known Linda for years...I have only had the opportunity to know her for the last five years. To me, Linda was the true illustration of a servant ...always the first to sign up for helping with food for all events. Linda also stepped up to the plate whenever we had a need for flight instructors/trainers to cover a field trip visit to GMA. It's amazing how an event like this makes us realize just how blessed we are to have the people we have around us...until they are gone! Linda had a heart for this club and the hobby...and she will be deeply missed. In contacting the Funeral Home, the family has asked that instead of flowers, that donations be made to our club in her honor. We will return these funds to our community involvement with Big Brother Big Sister and our efforts to help Forsyth County schools with their RC Clubs. A Memorial Service is scheduled for 11:00 a.m tomorrow, Thursday at the Roper Funeral Home in Jasper, GA. Deeply saddened, Rex Briant -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Wed Aug 19 07:28:17 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:28:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes References: Message-ID: <3DC532BF33FD4871889E9E66BD05EC19@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> So sad to hear that. I never met her but she helped me out last year with a replacement when I had a muffler come apart on my now dead WB60. She was a very nice lady. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Smith To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes This came across the GMA Club Email today. Linda followed this List & some of you knew her. I bring sad news to our club today...GMA Member, Linda Carnes pass away Monday! Please join me and our Board to pray for Linda's family, friends and associates as we deal with the loss of such a great lady. Many of you have known Linda for years...I have only had the opportunity to know her for the last five years. To me, Linda was the true illustration of a servant ...always the first to sign up for helping with food for all events. Linda also stepped up to the plate whenever we had a need for flight instructors/trainers to cover a field trip visit to GMA. It's amazing how an event like this makes us realize just how blessed we are to have the people we have around us...until they are gone! Linda had a heart for this club and the hobby...and she will be deeply missed. In contacting the Funeral Home, the family has asked that instead of flowers, that donations be made to our club in her honor. We will return these funds to our community involvement with Big Brother Big Sister and our efforts to help Forsyth County schools with their RC Clubs. A Memorial Service is scheduled for 11:00 a.m tomorrow, Thursday at the Roper Funeral Home in Jasper, GA. Deeply saddened, Rex Briant ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Wed Aug 19 08:23:54 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:23:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] For Sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Forgot to mention, thisis a brand new pack. From: jlachow at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:52:42 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] For Sale I have a single Thunderpower 5S 5300 V2 Prolite Lipo pack for sale. Asking $185 shipped. Contact off list if interested. Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try BingT now. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 19 11:28:00 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:28:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: <008b01ca2076$e976d7b0$bc648710$@net> Message-ID: <613072.51967.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks everyone. Great answers. My friend Russ and I thank you all. Mike Mueller --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Dave Burton wrote: > From: Dave Burton > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 9:44 PM > An old rule of thumb I remember from > years ago was that an RC flying field needed 100 acres to > fly over. I'd think in today's environment it's probably > hard to find many fields with that much area especially > along the East coast. > I have 28 acres at my flying field at my home but no > neighbors within 400-500 feet from my boundary so I have > enough room to fly without causing a problem. Now if I could > only convince my sister (co-owner) of the need to cut a few > more trees at the North end........ > Dave Burton > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:17 PM > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the > experts > > A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. > Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the > last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a > better place to get an answer than you guys so here it > goes. > > Mike, I know that youve been in the pattern flying for > some time.? I am trying to buy some property and found > a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres > removed.? I put a triangle to it and I would still > overfly as the box doesnt fit in the acreage, 1350 x > 1000.? Do you have a recommended acreage size for a > field?? Just curious. > > Russ > > Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Wed Aug 19 11:32:48 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:32:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: <613072.51967.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Are those the same "Jumping Trees" that we have in SC? The ones that always jump up and get you on final? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:28 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts Thanks everyone. Great answers. My friend Russ and I thank you all. Mike Mueller --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Dave Burton wrote: > From: Dave Burton > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 9:44 PM > An old rule of thumb I remember from > years ago was that an RC flying field needed 100 acres to > fly over. I'd think in today's environment it's probably > hard to find many fields with that much area especially > along the East coast. > I have 28 acres at my flying field at my home but no > neighbors within 400-500 feet from my boundary so I have > enough room to fly without causing a problem. Now if I could > only convince my sister (co-owner) of the need to cut a few > more trees at the North end........ > Dave Burton > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:17 PM > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the > experts > > A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. > Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the > last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a > better place to get an answer than you guys so here it > goes. > > Mike, I know that youve been in the pattern flying for > some time.? I am trying to buy some property and found > a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres > removed.? I put a triangle to it and I would still > overfly as the box doesnt fit in the acreage, 1350 x > 1000.? Do you have a recommended acreage size for a > field?? Just curious. > > Russ > > Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From burtona at atmc.net Wed Aug 19 11:53:49 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:53:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: References: <613072.51967.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <005f01ca2106$d12d2e80$73878b80$@net> If not the same ones, they are kin. First time I flew after getting the logging done to remove trees directly in front of me I flew an Ugly stick into a maple tree in the yard. I was trying to get a feel for how close it was to the runway and it was closer than I thought. What's amazing is how fast things start growing up after timber cutting. I'll have to have a bush hog come in to knock down the new growth around the perimeter of the strip by next summer. Dave Burton -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Jay Marshall Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:33 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts Are those the same "Jumping Trees" that we have in SC? The ones that always jump up and get you on final? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:28 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts Thanks everyone. Great answers. My friend Russ and I thank you all. Mike Mueller --- On Tue, 8/18/09, Dave Burton wrote: > From: Dave Burton > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 9:44 PM > An old rule of thumb I remember from > years ago was that an RC flying field needed 100 acres to > fly over. I'd think in today's environment it's probably > hard to find many fields with that much area especially > along the East coast. > I have 28 acres at my flying field at my home but no > neighbors within 400-500 feet from my boundary so I have > enough room to fly without causing a problem. Now if I could > only convince my sister (co-owner) of the need to cut a few > more trees at the North end........ > Dave Burton > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:17 PM > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the > experts > > A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. > Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the > last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a > better place to get an answer than you guys so here it > goes. > > Mike, I know that youve been in the pattern flying for > some time.? I am trying to buy some property and found > a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres > removed.? I put a triangle to it and I would still > overfly as the box doesnt fit in the acreage, 1350 x > 1000.? Do you have a recommended acreage size for a > field?? Just curious. > > Russ > > Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From chuenkan at comcast.net Wed Aug 19 12:53:02 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:53:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts In-Reply-To: References: <613072.51967.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090819205301.CF7AE115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Hmmm, Jay, how did you train them to only jump p during final? Ours, here in the Knoxville, TN, area, jump and grab planes randomly. I've noticed, recently, that our ground will also heave up and grab an occasional pattern plane on a random basis. =-O At 03:32 PM 8/19/2009, you wrote: >Are those the same "Jumping Trees" that we have in SC? The ones that always >jump up and get you on final? > >Jay Marshall > >-----Original Message----- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller >Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:28 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts > > Thanks everyone. Great answers. My friend Russ and I thank you all. Mike >Mueller > >--- On Tue, 8/18/09, Dave Burton wrote: > > > From: Dave Burton > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the experts > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 9:44 PM > > An old rule of thumb I remember from > > years ago was that an RC flying field needed 100 acres to > > fly over. I'd think in today's environment it's probably > > hard to find many fields with that much area especially > > along the East coast. > > I have 28 acres at my flying field at my home but no > > neighbors within 400-500 feet from my boundary so I have > > enough room to fly without causing a problem. Now if I could > > only convince my sister (co-owner) of the need to cut a few > > more trees at the North end........ > > Dave Burton > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > > On Behalf Of mike mueller > > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 6:17 PM > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Question for a friend for the > > experts > > > > A friend of mine Russ Rhodes asked me this question. > > Since I'm stuck in a metro area with 8 million people the > > last thing I know about is acreage. I can't think of a > > better place to get an answer than you guys so here it > > goes. > > > > Mike, I know that youve been in the pattern flying for > > some time. I am trying to buy some property and found > > a 30 acre plot that was a square 40 acre with 10 acres > > removed. I put a triangle to it and I would still > > overfly as the box doesnt fit in the acreage, 1350 x > > 1000. Do you have a recommended acreage size for a > > field? Just curious. > > > > Russ > > > > Thanks in advance, Mike Mueller > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 19 14:30:59 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:30:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes References: <3DC532BF33FD4871889E9E66BD05EC19@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Message-ID: <0D2BCC3EDAB049B494E8CF7A372C4E59@glazecstp32xp> This puts a pall over the entire day. I knew Linda through the list, and we corresponded mostly through backchannel. This is a shock, because she lost her father, and her husband, very close together, about a year and a half ago, I believe. I could be wrong on the time frame, because at my age, it (time) flows swiftly. We hadn't corresponded for a while, and I was going to drop her a line to see how she was doing. Shows that you should never put something off; you may never get another opportunity. I am sure the club and her friends feel her loss keenly. I know that I do. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Cosky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes So sad to hear that. I never met her but she helped me out last year with a replacement when I had a muffler come apart on my now dead WB60. She was a very nice lady. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Smith To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes This came across the GMA Club Email today. Linda followed this List & some of you knew her. I bring sad news to our club today...GMA Member, Linda Carnes pass away Monday! Please join me and our Board to pray for Linda's family, friends and associates as we deal with the loss of such a great lady. Many of you have known Linda for years...I have only had the opportunity to know her for the last five years. To me, Linda was the true illustration of a servant ...always the first to sign up for helping with food for all events. Linda also stepped up to the plate whenever we had a need for flight instructors/trainers to cover a field trip visit to GMA. It's amazing how an event like this makes us realize just how blessed we are to have the people we have around us...until they are gone! Linda had a heart for this club and the hobby...and she will be deeply missed. In contacting the Funeral Home, the family has asked that instead of flowers, that donations be made to our club in her honor. We will return these funds to our community involvement with Big Brother Big Sister and our efforts to help Forsyth County schools with their RC Clubs. A Memorial Service is scheduled for 11:00 a.m tomorrow, Thursday at the Roper Funeral Home in Jasper, GA. Deeply saddened, Rex Briant ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcwilsonjr at comcast.net Wed Aug 19 16:01:52 2009 From: jcwilsonjr at comcast.net (Jerry Wilson) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:01:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes In-Reply-To: <0D2BCC3EDAB049B494E8CF7A372C4E59@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <20090820000152.28939115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> I did not know Linda, but as a regular reader on the list I always read her posts, probably because of the novelty and I was interested in what she had to say. A lady pattern flyer has got to be a rare bird and will be missed by many. Jerry _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 5:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes This puts a pall over the entire day. I knew Linda through the list, and we corresponded mostly through backchannel. This is a shock, because she lost her father, and her husband, very close together, about a year and a half ago, I believe. I could be wrong on the time frame, because at my age, it (time) flows swiftly. We hadn't corresponded for a while, and I was going to drop her a line to see how she was doing. Shows that you should never put something off; you may never get another opportunity. I am sure the club and her friends feel her loss keenly. I know that I do. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Cosky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 11:28 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes So sad to hear that. I never met her but she helped me out last year with a replacement when I had a muffler come apart on my now dead WB60. She was a very nice lady. Pete ----- Original Message ----- From: C. Smith To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Linda Carnes This came across the GMA Club Email today. Linda followed this List & some of you knew her. I bring sad news to our club today...GMA Member, Linda Carnes pass away Monday! Please join me and our Board to pray for Linda's family, friends and associates as we deal with the loss of such a great lady. Many of you have known Linda for years...I have only had the opportunity to know her for the last five years. To me, Linda was the true illustration of a servant ...always the first to sign up for helping with food for all events. Linda also stepped up to the plate whenever we had a need for flight instructors/trainers to cover a field trip visit to GMA. It's amazing how an event like this makes us realize just how blessed we are to have the people we have around us...until they are gone! Linda had a heart for this club and the hobby...and she will be deeply missed. In contacting the Funeral Home, the family has asked that instead of flowers, that donations be made to our club in her honor. We will return these funds to our community involvement with Big Brother Big Sister and our efforts to help Forsyth County schools with their RC Clubs. A Memorial Service is scheduled for 11:00 a.m tomorrow, Thursday at the Roper Funeral Home in Jasper, GA. Deeply saddened, Rex Briant _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astropuppy at gmail.com Fri Aug 21 05:57:16 2009 From: astropuppy at gmail.com (astropuppy) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:57:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Fri Aug 21 06:19:03 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:19:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions and recommendations. Even though the response for the Chrysler/Dodge minivans was overwhelming I'm afraid I won't be considering one. They have stopped making the AWD version and living in Iowa during the winter makes AWD or 4WD just about mandatory. Each winter there has been somewhere we just HAD to get to and without the 4WD on the Expedition we wouldn't have made it. So... Looks like either a Toyota Sienna or Ford Flex. Between model years like we are inventories are pretty low. Thanks to the Internet I was able to cast a pretty broad net so should be hearing from dealers as the 2010's come in. Thanks everyone! JLK From: astropuppy at gmail.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:56:55 -0600 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Aug 21 06:21:15 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:21:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <669109.15803.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> If you have Stow-N-Go in both the 2nd and third rows?I think you could do this. Some of the early vans came with Stow-N-Go in the third row only. Mine was like this but?I converted it to the full setup with?2nd row seats from a wrecked 2005 Caravan. Actually I think you could bring 2 airplanes and 4 people.?a small dog would probably be OK - a large one probabaly wouldn't. I had mine set up for 3 airplanes and 3 adults by using one of the second row seats behind the driver. The rest were folded into the floor to make room for airpplaens and equipment. In your case you could also flip one of the third row seats up for the 4th person. The airplanes go on a home-made PVC rack on the passenger side. When the seats flip up there is a lot of storage area in the floor area where the seats go when they're folded up. For the second row seats this storage area is covered by an access door. Transmitters and support equipment can go in here. For the third row seats it's just a big trough in the floor. You can easily put a beer cooler or luggage in there. :) If you get creative you can pack a LOT of stuff into one of these vehicles. Sometimes you have to be?careful of the order in which things go in and come out but it can be done easily with some practice. Don't forget you can also put a luggage carrier on the roof rack. ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/21/09, astropuppy wrote: From: astropuppy Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 9:56 AM Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 21 06:23:33 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:23:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7379@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Yes, but with caveats. I've had 4 people, a small dog (in a cage) and ONE 2M pattern plane in my T&C. The plane has to be nose first up between the two middle seats, but it fits there with ease. My kids were 12 and 15 so having them be careful around it was not a big deal. It left a fair amount of room for other "stuff" but once you get your support gear in, it didn't leave a lot of room for any luggage. It was fine for the weekend though. I would argue it's NOT the way to travel if you need to take 4 people on a regular basis. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of astropuppy Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:57 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Fri Aug 21 06:24:55 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:24:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <437866.91350.qm@web51003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Good choices John. I know that Bobby loves his new 2009 Sienna. It's loaded and even has a camera for him for backing up because he can't move his neck anymore. Mike --- On Fri, 8/21/09, John Konneker wrote: > From: John Konneker > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > To: "Discussion List" > Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 9:19 AM > > > > #yiv1532052983 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv1532052983 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions and > recommendations.? Even though the response for the > > Chrysler/Dodge minivans was?overwhelming I'm > afraid I won't be considering one.? They have > stopped making the > > AWD version and living in?Iowa during the winter makes > AWD or 4WD just about mandatory.? Each winter there > has > > been somewhere we just HAD to get to and without the 4WD on > the Expedition we?wouldn't have made it. > > So... > > Looks like either a Toyota Sienna or Ford Flex.? > Between model years like we are inventories are pretty low. > > Thanks to the Internet I was able to cast a pretty broad > net so should be hearing from dealers as the 2010's > > come in. > > Thanks everyone! > > JLK > ? > > > From: astropuppy at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:56:55 -0600 > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > Can the Town and Country with stow and go > seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m > airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the > family circus plus an airplane or two? > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 21 06:25:02 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:25:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7379@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7379@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B737A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Didn't think about a luggage carrier. That would make it much more workable. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:17 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Yes, but with caveats. I've had 4 people, a small dog (in a cage) and ONE 2M pattern plane in my T&C. The plane has to be nose first up between the two middle seats, but it fits there with ease. My kids were 12 and 15 so having them be careful around it was not a big deal. It left a fair amount of room for other "stuff" but once you get your support gear in, it didn't leave a lot of room for any luggage. It was fine for the weekend though. I would argue it's NOT the way to travel if you need to take 4 people on a regular basis. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of astropuppy Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 9:57 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Aug 21 06:25:38 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:25:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <978351.78434.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> John, ?That's the only thing?I don't like about my Caravan: when the Stow-N-Go seating came out, they did away with AWD. Is there any minivan available (from any automaker) with folding seats AND AWD ? I would only consider replacing my Grand Caravan if something like this existed. Otherwise it's a keeper. ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/21/09, John Konneker wrote: From: John Konneker Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: "Discussion List" Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 10:19 AM #yiv1455022667 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1455022667 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions and recommendations.? Even though the response for the Chrysler/Dodge minivans was?overwhelming I'm afraid I won't be considering one.? They have stopped making the AWD version and living in?Iowa during the winter makes AWD or 4WD just about mandatory.? Each winter there has been somewhere we just HAD to get to and without the 4WD on the Expedition we?wouldn't have made it. So... Looks like either a Toyota Sienna or Ford Flex.? Between model years like we are inventories are pretty low. Thanks to the Internet I was able to cast a pretty broad net so should be hearing from dealers as the 2010's come in. Thanks everyone! JLK ? From: astropuppy at gmail.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:56:55 -0600 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffghughes at comcast.net Fri Aug 21 06:43:20 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:43:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1224911625.2593561250865799069.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> If you?keep decent tires on a FWD car, it'll go through snow till it gets deep enough to float on it (speaking from my experience in da UP). I do know what driving in a winter that got 396 inches of snow feels like! I wouldn't pay the extra money and lower fuel economy for AWD over a front wheel drive car. I would agree about your expedition, as it's rear wheel drive, which can be miserable in the snow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Konneker" To: "Discussion List" Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:19:02 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions and recommendations.? Even though the response for the Chrysler/Dodge minivans was?overwhelming I'm afraid I won't be considering one.? They have stopped making the AWD version and living in?Iowa during the winter makes AWD or 4WD just about mandatory.? Each winter there has been somewhere we just HAD to get to and without the 4WD on the Expedition we?wouldn't have made it. So... Looks like either a Toyota Sienna or Ford Flex.? Between model years like we are inventories are pretty low. Thanks to the Internet I was able to cast a pretty broad net so should be hearing from dealers as the 2010's come in. Thanks everyone! JLK ? From: astropuppy at gmail.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:56:55 -0600 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Fri Aug 21 07:22:40 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:22:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <30501E50A2434A23BD16B9E655C3A90A@jaysdesktop> I believe the 4WD Highlander will also carry a 2M plane now. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Konneker Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 10:19 AM To: Discussion List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions and recommendations. Even though the response for the Chrysler/Dodge minivans was overwhelming I'm afraid I won't be considering one. They have stopped making the AWD version and living in Iowa during the winter makes AWD or 4WD just about mandatory. Each winter there has been somewhere we just HAD to get to and without the 4WD on the Expedition we wouldn't have made it. So... Looks like either a Toyota Sienna or Ford Flex. Between model years like we are inventories are pretty low. Thanks to the Internet I was able to cast a pretty broad net so should be hearing from dealers as the 2010's come in. Thanks everyone! JLK _____ From: astropuppy at gmail.com Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:56:55 -0600 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Fri Aug 21 08:49:51 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 16:49:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8CBF09681E71E50-324-40AB@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> You can do it with the nose between the two middle seats, or, if you can, remove the horizontals. If you built a PVC rack, you might be able to squeeze another airplane between the seats stacked on the other one. Again, a lot easier if the tails come off. You won't have much vision out of the rear window, though. Don't know what you do with the dog! Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: astropuppy To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2009 8:56 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Aug 21 09:23:41 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:23:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] CRCC event Message-ID: <6DACC18E542143BCA75142F6A77E9253@Tony> The Chattanooga RC Club has contacted me with an interest in hosting a Pattern contest in June 2010. Is there someone on the list in that area that would like to check in with the club president about that? I have the info here, so please contact me. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Aug 21 09:31:58 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:31:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <8CBF09681E71E50-324-40AB@webmail-de11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <314774.73091.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Jon, ?I suggested using one seat from the second row and one seat from the third row. You can leave the stab's alone in this case. It's a bit of a tight fit but it should work. I got 3 people and 3 airplanes?in this way although?I think one was a Venus 2.?I had the third row seat folded but I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it other than it might be really hard to get in and out. ? This is why it's impotant for us not to allow the airplanes to get any larger! LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Jon Lowe wrote: From: Jon Lowe Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 12:49 PM You can do it with the nose between the two middle seats, or, if you can, remove the horizontals.? If you built a PVC rack, you might be able to squeeze another airplane between the seats stacked on the other one.? Again, a lot easier if the tails come off.? You won't have much vision out of the rear window, though.???Don't know what you do with the dog! Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: astropuppy To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2009 8:56 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From precisionaero at hotmail.com Fri Aug 21 10:51:47 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:51:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up Message-ID: Well, I ran the YS engine I had trouble with the other day and am reporting back with my findings. First, the inspection and changes. I looked for cracks or splits in the o-rings and saw none. I went back to flush on the pump (it was about 3/4 of a turn out). After starting the engine and running on a high mid throttle and back down to idle, I tweaked the pump slightly to keep a good 2000 to 2200 idle. I left the high speed set where it was, but after running at full power, I went to get the tach and the engine would die abruptly. I decided to check the valve clearance and reset it to .0015 to .0020 inches. Since the valve cover was off, I did a quick wet sand on the valve cover. Since I was out 2.25 turn on the main needle (much further than any other DZ I have), I decided to simply turn it in to 1.75 turns and see what would happen. I know for a good controlled experiment, one should not alter more than one thing at a time, but the engine seemed to work just fine now. High end power was up to 7400 to 7500 RPM on an 18.1 X 10 prop from the 7200 (but rapidly sagging) setting before. Richening the high setting slightly cause a slight drop in RPM, so I left it at 1.75 out and double checked the idle and the transition from idle to full power. Everything seems to work great, but I will try it in the air on Sunday before feeling more comfortable. In summary, from the previous, issue free running of this engine in a Brio, I made the following changes: 1) Had a mid air and buried the engine nicely in a plowed field. 2) Disassembled, inspected, cleaned, and reassembled the engine (using klotz synthetic oil as a lube) and installed it into an Eclipse 3) Used a 18.1 X 10 2 blade in place of the 15.5 X 12 4 blade 4) Ran the engine on the ground to check its operation, all seemed normal 5) Had one flight on the engine last weekend and on the second flight, the dying at full power issue popped up. Admittedly, it was a very humid day last weekend. 6) Reset the pump to flush and checked the idle for a nice 2000-2200 run. The high power setting issue was still present. 7) Reset valve clearance, sanded the valve cover, and reset the high speed needle to 1.75 turns out. Problem solved! So, now for the educational questions: Could the high speed needle being so far out have cause the abrupt high speed "flame out"? Does switching from a 2 blade from a 4 blade make a difference and why? Does the valve clearance being in the .003 range instead of the .000 to .002 (as recommended) make that much of a difference? Could an air leak cause this high speed flame out problem? I am interested to know so I can someday become the Troy Newman of the East (maybe) for YS engines. I don't get a heck of a lot of flights per year, so my statistical database is lacking. But that said, I did help two people with their YS engine troubles at the Weak Signals contest so I must be learning something! Thanks all for the help. Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook. Find out more. _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Fri Aug 21 10:58:12 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:58:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <814i7o$43n2ka@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Hi Mike - did you "pinch" the fuel line to see what the rpms would do? Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:52 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up Well, I ran the YS engine I had trouble with the other day and am reporting back with my findings. First, the inspection and changes. I looked for cracks or splits in the o-rings and saw none. I went back to flush on the pump (it was about 3/4 of a turn out). After starting the engine and running on a high mid throttle and back down to idle, I tweaked the pump slightly to keep a good 2000 to 2200 idle. I left the high speed set where it was, but after running at full power, I went to get the tach and the engine would die abruptly. I decided to check the valve clearance and reset it to .0015 to .0020 inches. Since the valve cover was off, I did a quick wet sand on the valve cover. Since I was out 2.25 turn on the main needle (much further than any other DZ I have), I decided to simply turn it in to 1.75 turns and see what would happen. I know for a good controlled experiment, one should not alter more than one thing at a time, but the engine seemed to work just fine now. High end power was up to 7400 to 7500 RPM on an 18.1 X 10 prop from the 7200 (but rapidly sagging) setting before. Richening the high setting slightly cause a slight drop in RPM, so I left it at 1.75 out and double checked the idle and the transition from idle to full power. Everything seems to work great, but I will try it in the air on Sunday before feeling more comfortable. In summary, from the previous, issue free running of this engine in a Brio, I made the following changes: 1) Had a mid air and buried the engine nicely in a plowed field. 2) Disassembled, inspected, cleaned, and reassembled the engine (using klotz synthetic oil as a lube) and installed it into an Eclipse 3) Used a 18.1 X 10 2 blade in place of the 15.5 X 12 4 blade 4) Ran the engine on the ground to check its operation, all seemed normal 5) Had one flight on the engine last weekend and on the second flight, the dying at full power issue popped up. Admittedly, it was a very humid day last weekend. 6) Reset the pump to flush and checked the idle for a nice 2000-2200 run. The high power setting issue was still present. 7) Reset valve clearance, sanded the valve cover, and reset the high speed needle to 1.75 turns out. Problem solved! So, now for the educational questions: Could the high speed needle being so far out have cause the abrupt high speed "flame out"? Does switching from a 2 blade from a 4 blade make a difference and why? Does the valve clearance being in the .003 range instead of the .000 to .002 (as recommended) make that much of a difference? Could an air leak cause this high speed flame out problem? I am interested to know so I can someday become the Troy Newman of the East (maybe) for YS engines. I don't get a heck of a lot of flights per year, so my statistical database is lacking. But that said, I did help two people with their YS engine troubles at the Weak Signals contest so I must be learning something! Thanks all for the help. ________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you're up to on Facebook. Find out more. ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing(tm) now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cchariandy at yahoo.ca Fri Aug 21 11:21:01 2009 From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca (colin chariandy) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:21:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up In-Reply-To: <814i7o$43n2ka@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: <249206.92597.qm@web112604.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Q - Could the high speed needle being so far out have cause the abrupt high speed "flame out"?? ? A- Yes, but I have found that the 170 will stop abruptly breaking the spinner so you can tell that you're too rich. I ran my HS needle further out than 2.25 with the 18.1X10 and still got over 8Ks. On the ground the engine shakes violently just before the shut-down. ? Q-Does switching from a 2 blade from a 4 blade make a difference and why? ? A-Yes, I think that 4 blade does not provide as much load as the 18.1X10. The 170 seems to get less tolerant of being too rich as you increase the load. I have destroyed 3 spinners...everytime I changed to a higher load prop. ? Colin --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Woodward, Jim (US SSA) wrote: From: Woodward, Jim (US SSA) Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up To: "General pattern discussion" Received: Friday, August 21, 2009, 2:58 PM Hi Mike ? did you ?pinch? the fuel line to see what the rpms would do? Jim ? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:52 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up ? Well, I ran the YS engine I had trouble with the other day and am reporting back with my findings.? First, the inspection and changes.? I looked for cracks or splits in the o-rings and saw none.? I?went back to flush on the pump (it was about 3/4 of a turn out).? After starting?the engine?and running on a high mid throttle and back down to idle, I?tweaked?the pump?slightly to keep a good 2000 to 2200 idle.? I left the high speed set where it was, but after running at full power, I went to get the tach and?the engine would die abruptly.? I decided to?check the?valve clearance and reset it to .0015 to .0020 inches.??Since the valve cover was off, I did a quick wet sand on the valve cover.? Since I was out 2.25 turn on the main needle (much further than any other DZ I have), I decided to simply turn it in to 1.75 turns and see what would happen.??I know for a good controlled experiment, one should not alter more than one thing at a time, but?the engine?seemed to work just fine now.? High end power was up to 7400 to 7500 RPM on an 18.1 X 10 prop from the 7200 (but rapidly sagging) setting before.? Richening the high setting slightly cause a slight drop in RPM, so I?left it at 1.75 out and double checked the idle and the transition from idle to full power.? Everything seems to work great, but I will try it in the air on Sunday before feeling more comfortable. ? In summary, from the previous, issue free running of this engine in a Brio, I made the following changes: ? 1)? Had a mid air and buried the engine nicely in a plowed field. 2)? Disassembled, inspected,?cleaned, and reassembled the engine (using klotz synthetic oil as a lube) and installed it into an Eclipse 3)? Used a 18.1 X 10 2 blade in place of the 15.5 X 12 4 blade 4)? Ran the engine on the ground to check its operation, all seemed normal 5)? Had one?flight on?the engine last weekend and on the second flight, the?dying at full power issue popped up.? Admittedly, it was a very humid day last weekend. 6)??Reset the pump to flush and checked the idle for a nice 2000-2200 run.? The high power setting issue was still present. 7)? Reset valve clearance, sanded the valve cover, and reset the high speed needle to 1.75 turns out.? Problem solved! ? So, now for the educational questions: ? Could the high speed needle being so far out have cause the abrupt high speed "flame out"? ? Does switching from a 2 blade from a 4 blade make a difference and why? ? Does the valve clearance being in the .003 range instead of the .000 to .002 (as recommended) make that much of a difference? ? Could an air leak cause this high speed flame out problem? ? I am interested to know so I can someday become the Troy Newman of the East (maybe) for YS engines.? I don't get a heck of a lot of flights per year, so my statistical database is lacking.? But that said, I did help two people with their YS engine troubles at the Weak Signals contest so I must be learning something!? Thanks all for the help. Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook. Find out more. Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing? now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! http://www.flickr.com/gift/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Aug 21 11:40:20 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:40:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <415220.89729.qm@web80508.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mike, ?Be careful with the valve lash adjustments. I believe they should be done "cold" on a YS. Don't set them when the engine is cold, then run the engine, then re-adjust. It's normal for the lash to change as the engine warms up. That's why we have hydraulic lifters in automotive engines.?I know model engines?are different but the physics are the same. :) If the instructions tell you to set the valve lash when the engine is cold then that's really the only time you should do it. ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Michael Cohen wrote: From: Michael Cohen Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 2:51 PM #yiv1282345622 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1282345622 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} #yiv1282345622 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv1282345622 .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} Well, I ran the YS engine I had trouble with the other day and am reporting back with my findings.? First, the inspection and changes.? I looked for cracks or splits in the o-rings and saw none.? I?went back to flush on the pump (it was about 3/4 of a turn out).? After starting?the engine?and running on a high mid throttle and back down to idle, I?tweaked?the pump?slightly to keep a good 2000 to 2200 idle.? I left the high speed set where it was, but after running at full power, I went to get the tach and?the engine would die abruptly.? I decided to?check the?valve clearance and reset it to .0015 to .0020 inches.??Since the valve cover was off, I did a quick wet sand on the valve cover.? Since I was out 2.25 turn on the main needle (much further than any other DZ I have), I decided to simply turn it in to 1.75 turns and see what would happen.??I know for a good controlled experiment, one should not alter more than one thing at a time, but?the engine?seemed to work just fine now.? High end power was up to 7400 to 7500 RPM on an 18.1 X 10 prop from the 7200 (but rapidly sagging) setting before.? Richening the high setting slightly cause a slight drop in RPM, so I?left it at 1.75 out and double checked the idle and the transition from idle to full power.? Everything seems to work great, but I will try it in the air on Sunday before feeling more comfortable. ? In summary, from the previous, issue free running of this engine in a Brio, I made the following changes: ? 1)? Had a mid air and buried the engine nicely in a plowed field. 2)? Disassembled, inspected,?cleaned, and reassembled the engine (using klotz synthetic oil as a lube) and installed it into an Eclipse 3)? Used a 18.1 X 10 2 blade in place of the 15.5 X 12 4 blade 4)? Ran the engine on the ground to check its operation, all seemed normal 5)? Had one?flight on?the engine last weekend and on the second flight, the?dying at full power issue popped up.? Admittedly, it was a very humid day last weekend. 6)??Reset the pump to flush and checked the idle for a nice 2000-2200 run.? The high power setting issue was still present. 7)? Reset valve clearance, sanded the valve cover, and reset the high speed needle to 1.75 turns out.? Problem solved! ? So, now for the educational questions: ? Could the high speed needle being so far out have cause the abrupt high speed "flame out"? ? Does switching from a 2 blade from a 4 blade make a difference and why? ? Does the valve clearance being in the .003 range instead of the .000 to .002 (as recommended) make that much of a difference? ? Could an air leak cause this high speed flame out problem? ? I am interested to know so I can someday become the Troy Newman of the East (maybe) for YS engines.? I don't get a heck of a lot of flights per year, so my statistical database is lacking.? But that said, I did help two people with their YS engine troubles at the Weak Signals contest so I must be learning something!? Thanks all for the help. Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook. Find out more. Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing? now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From precisionaero at hotmail.com Fri Aug 21 12:45:39 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:45:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up In-Reply-To: <814i7o$43n2ka@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> References: <814i7o$43n2ka@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: I will check that as well at the field on Sunday, but it was idling really well for about 20 to 30 seconds. Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:58:08 -0400 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up Hi Mike ? did you ?pinch? the fuel line to see what the rpms would do? Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:52 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up Well, I ran the YS engine I had trouble with the other day and am reporting back with my findings. First, the inspection and changes. I looked for cracks or splits in the o-rings and saw none. I went back to flush on the pump (it was about 3/4 of a turn out). After starting the engine and running on a high mid throttle and back down to idle, I tweaked the pump slightly to keep a good 2000 to 2200 idle. I left the high speed set where it was, but after running at full power, I went to get the tach and the engine would die abruptly. I decided to check the valve clearance and reset it to .0015 to .0020 inches. Since the valve cover was off, I did a quick wet sand on the valve cover. Since I was out 2.25 turn on the main needle (much further than any other DZ I have), I decided to simply turn it in to 1.75 turns and see what would happen. I know for a good controlled experiment, one should not alter more than one thing at a time, but the engine seemed to work just fine now. High end power was up to 7400 to 7500 RPM on an 18.1 X 10 prop from the 7200 (but rapidly sagging) setting before. Richening the high setting slightly cause a slight drop in RPM, so I left it at 1.75 out and double checked the idle and the transition from idle to full power. Everything seems to work great, but I will try it in the air on Sunday before feeling more comfortable. In summary, from the previous, issue free running of this engine in a Brio, I made the following changes: 1) Had a mid air and buried the engine nicely in a plowed field. 2) Disassembled, inspected, cleaned, and reassembled the engine (using klotz synthetic oil as a lube) and installed it into an Eclipse 3) Used a 18.1 X 10 2 blade in place of the 15.5 X 12 4 blade 4) Ran the engine on the ground to check its operation, all seemed normal 5) Had one flight on the engine last weekend and on the second flight, the dying at full power issue popped up. Admittedly, it was a very humid day last weekend. 6) Reset the pump to flush and checked the idle for a nice 2000-2200 run. The high power setting issue was still present. 7) Reset valve clearance, sanded the valve cover, and reset the high speed needle to 1.75 turns out. Problem solved! So, now for the educational questions: Could the high speed needle being so far out have cause the abrupt high speed "flame out"? Does switching from a 2 blade from a 4 blade make a difference and why? Does the valve clearance being in the .003 range instead of the .000 to .002 (as recommended) make that much of a difference? Could an air leak cause this high speed flame out problem? I am interested to know so I can someday become the Troy Newman of the East (maybe) for YS engines. I don't get a heck of a lot of flights per year, so my statistical database is lacking. But that said, I did help two people with their YS engine troubles at the Weak Signals contest so I must be learning something! Thanks all for the help. Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you?re up to on Facebook. Find out more. Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing? now. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Fri Aug 21 12:47:21 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 20:47:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <814i1h$4ang7g@dmzms99801.na.baesystems.com> Make sure you pinch the line when it is running full throttle. If the rpms jump, your needle is too rich. If you pinch it and they stay the same, you can back off two clicks. If you pinch the line and it cuts or drops in rpms, you are too lean. Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 4:46 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up I will check that as well at the field on Sunday, but it was idling really well for about 20 to 30 seconds. ________________________________ Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:58:08 -0400 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up Hi Mike - did you "pinch" the fuel line to see what the rpms would do? Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Michael Cohen Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:52 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS engine follow up Well, I ran the YS engine I had trouble with the other day and am reporting back with my findings. First, the inspection and changes. I looked for cracks or splits in the o-rings and saw none. I went back to flush on the pump (it was about 3/4 of a turn out). After starting the engine and running on a high mid throttle and back down to idle, I tweaked the pump slightly to keep a good 2000 to 2200 idle. I left the high speed set where it was, but after running at full power, I went to get the tach and the engine would die abruptly. I decided to check the valve clearance and reset it to .0015 to .0020 inches. Since the valve cover was off, I did a quick wet sand on the valve cover. Since I was out 2.25 turn on the main needle (much further than any other DZ I have), I decided to simply turn it in to 1.75 turns and see what would happen. I know for a good controlled experiment, one should not alter more than one thing at a time, but the engine seemed to work just fine now. High end power was up to 7400 to 7500 RPM on an 18.1 X 10 prop from the 7200 (but rapidly sagging) setting before. Richening the high setting slightly cause a slight drop in RPM, so I left it at 1.75 out and double checked the idle and the transition from idle to full power. Everything seems to work great, but I will try it in the air on Sunday before feeling more comfortable. In summary, from the previous, issue free running of this engine in a Brio, I made the following changes: 1) Had a mid air and buried the engine nicely in a plowed field. 2) Disassembled, inspected, cleaned, and reassembled the engine (using klotz synthetic oil as a lube) and installed it into an Eclipse 3) Used a 18.1 X 10 2 blade in place of the 15.5 X 12 4 blade 4) Ran the engine on the ground to check its operation, all seemed normal 5) Had one flight on the engine last weekend and on the second flight, the dying at full power issue popped up. Admittedly, it was a very humid day last weekend. 6) Reset the pump to flush and checked the idle for a nice 2000-2200 run. The high power setting issue was still present. 7) Reset valve clearance, sanded the valve cover, and reset the high speed needle to 1.75 turns out. Problem solved! So, now for the educational questions: Could the high speed needle being so far out have cause the abrupt high speed "flame out"? Does switching from a 2 blade from a 4 blade make a difference and why? Does the valve clearance being in the .003 range instead of the .000 to .002 (as recommended) make that much of a difference? Could an air leak cause this high speed flame out problem? I am interested to know so I can someday become the Troy Newman of the East (maybe) for YS engines. I don't get a heck of a lot of flights per year, so my statistical database is lacking. But that said, I did help two people with their YS engine troubles at the Weak Signals contest so I must be learning something! Thanks all for the help. ________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you're up to on Facebook. Find out more. ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing(tm) now. ________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Fri Aug 21 21:01:41 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 05:01:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <314774.73091.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBF0FCBBF23E19-A3C-17D42@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> My third row is a bench seat. Aren't they all? Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2009 12:31 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Jon, ?I suggested using one seat from the second row and one seat from the third row. You can leave the stab's alone in this case. It's a bit of a tight fit but it should work. I got 3 people and 3 airplanes?in this way although?I think one was a Venus 2.?I had the third row seat folded but I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it other than it might be really hard to get in and out. ? This is why it's impotant for us not to allow the airplanes to get any larger! LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Jon Lowe wrote: From: Jon Lowe Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 12:49 PM You can do it with the nose between the two middle seats, or, if you can, remove the horizontals.? If you built a PVC rack, you might be able to squeeze another airplane between the seats stacked on the other one.? Again, a lot easier if the tails come off.? You won't ha ve much vision out of the rear window, though.???Don't know what you do with the dog! Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: astropuppy To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2009 8:56 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sat Aug 22 03:35:28 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 11:35:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Meroke Pattern Primer is CANCELLED due to weather In-Reply-To: <776554E16A4A452E93E4E2574E810C90@davedesktop> References: <628BE84BD35D42BDBA0D118DFAA61BFE@davedesktop> <776554E16A4A452E93E4E2574E810C90@davedesktop> Message-ID: Hi all: For any D1 pilots planning on the Meroke RC Pattern Primer today, it has been cancelled due to the weather conditions now and forecast for the remainder of the day. Ed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sat Aug 22 04:59:43 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 12:59:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Soldering to LiPo battery tabs Message-ID: I'm having trouble getting ordinary silver bearing solder to flow and bond with the metal tabs at the end of some 5000 mAh LiPo cells. What's interesting is that I can re-solder to any spot where it was originally soldered by the manufacturer, but I can't start a new solder joint. I've tried extensive cleaning of the metal, no luck. Does anyone know what the material is that those tabs are made from? Is it an aluminum alloy of some type? Thanks Ed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schale at optonline.net Sat Aug 22 05:11:42 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:11:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Soldering to LiPo battery tabs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A8FEE81.4060008@optonline.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sat Aug 22 05:58:27 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 13:58:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Soldering to LiPo battery tabs In-Reply-To: <4A8FEE81.4060008@optonline.net> References: <4A8FEE81.4060008@optonline.net> Message-ID: Thanks. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Chale Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:11 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Soldering to LiPo battery tabs Yes it is aluminum. Generally one tab is nickel plated I believe which is easy to solder to and the other is aluminum. I bought some special flux and solder which does work, I think the zinc flux here is the same, used with zinc solder http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/?sid=2036126 &pgid=bldg And it is still beautiful out :) Stu Ed Alt wrote: I'm having trouble getting ordinary silver bearing solder to flow and bond with the metal tabs at the end of some 5000 mAh LiPo cells. What's interesting is that I can re-solder to any spot where it was originally soldered by the manufacturer, but I can't start a new solder joint. I've tried extensive cleaning of the metal, no luck. Does anyone know what the material is that those tabs are made from? Is it an aluminum alloy of some type? Thanks Ed _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Sat Aug 22 06:38:26 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:38:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle References: <8CBF0FCBBF23E19-A3C-17D42@webmail-m044.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002601ca2336$33fd60d0$9501a8c0@GW7422> Nope. Mine has a "split" bench seat. Here's something that might be helpful: http://www.chrysler.com/en/2009/town_country/design/seating_configurations/ John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Lowe" To: ; Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 1:01 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle My third row is a bench seat. Aren't they all? Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2009 12:31 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Jon, I suggested using one seat from the second row and one seat from the third row. You can leave the stab's alone in this case. It's a bit of a tight fit but it should work. I got 3 people and 3 airplanes in this way although I think one was a Venus 2. I had the third row seat folded but I don't see any reason why you couldn't use it other than it might be really hard to get in and out. This is why it's impotant for us not to allow the airplanes to get any larger! LOL John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Jon Lowe wrote: From: Jon Lowe Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 12:49 PM You can do it with the nose between the two middle seats, or, if you can, remove the horizontals. If you built a PVC rack, you might be able to squeeze another airplane between the seats stacked on the other one. Again, a lot easier if the tails come off. You won't ha ve much vision out of the rear window, though. Don't know what you do with the dog! Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: astropuppy To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri, Aug 21, 2009 8:56 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ronlock at comcast.net Sat Aug 22 07:05:26 2009 From: ronlock at comcast.net (ronlock at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:05:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Soldering to LiPo battery tabs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <952355362.2451401250953525232.JavaMail.root@sz0086a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Ive had OK success with alminum solder paste. Ron Lockhart ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Alt" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:58:37 AM (GMT-0500) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Soldering to LiPo battery tabs Thanks. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Stuart Chale Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:11 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Soldering to LiPo battery tabs Yes it is aluminum. Generally one tab is nickel plated I believe which is easy to solder to and the other is aluminum. I bought some special flux and solder which does work, I think the zinc flux here is the same, used with zinc solder http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/?sid=2036126&pgid=bldg And it is still beautiful out :) Stu Ed Alt wrote: I?m having trouble getting ordinary silver bearing solder to flow and bond with the metal tabs at the end of some 5000 mAh LiPo cells. What?s interesting is that I can re-solder to any spot where it was originally soldered by the manufacturer, but I can?t start a new solder joint. I?ve tried extensive cleaning of the metal, no luck. Does anyone know what the material is that those tabs are made from? Is it an aluminum alloy of some type? Thanks Ed _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sat Aug 22 10:52:08 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:52:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle...enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They're just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I've picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don't change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It'll be a project for sure. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sat Aug 22 10:54:11 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:54:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B8@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Is anyone going to the St. Clairesville contest looking to share a room? Dan Bregar is new to pattern, this will be his first contest and he's looking for someone to split a room with. If you are going and can help out, I've copied him on this email (he's not on the list yet) please contact him off list. -Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmclalin at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 11:55:54 2009 From: dmclalin at gmail.com (Daniel McLalin) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:55:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54f1efb30908221255v3f4949c8je30e73b5f7020ac2@mail.gmail.com> Now you're talking about moving up to a Dodge Sprinter Diesel. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM, astropuppy wrote: > Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a > small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the > family circus plus an airplane or two? > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmclalin at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 11:56:51 2009 From: dmclalin at gmail.com (Daniel McLalin) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 19:56:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54f1efb30908221256y1ba3d16dk43e574788fefbd5e@mail.gmail.com> Please buy Ford, GM or Chrysler. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:19 AM, John Konneker wrote: > I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions and recommendations. Even > though the response for the > Chrysler/Dodge minivans was overwhelming I'm afraid I won't be considering > one. They have stopped making the > AWD version and living in Iowa during the winter makes AWD or 4WD just > about mandatory. Each winter there has > been somewhere we just HAD to get to and without the 4WD on the Expedition > we wouldn't have made it. > So... > Looks like either a Toyota Sienna or Ford Flex. Between model years like > we are inventories are pretty low. > Thanks to the Internet I was able to cast a pretty broad net so should be > hearing from dealers as the 2010's > come in. > Thanks everyone! > JLK > > ------------------------------ > From: astropuppy at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:56:55 -0600 > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a > small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the > family circus plus an airplane or two? > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d_bodary at yahoo.com Sat Aug 22 12:00:41 2009 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com (Dennis Bodary) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:00:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <784528.10261.qm@web51702.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Sorry to hear about that Mark --- On Sat, 8/22/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:45 PM Hey All, ? Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground.? ?Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me.? In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces.? ? I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane.? They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. ? Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning.? I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached.? Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast.? Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. ? Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter.? Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up.? It?ll be a project for sure.? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tkeithblack at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 12:56:50 2009 From: tkeithblack at gmail.com (Keith Black) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:56:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <77f26e410908221356v647ffbf5o4168c16403b95346@mail.gmail.com> Mark, that's a bummer, but as I was reading I was fearing you were going to say you reached out to grab it and got something cut off. I've heard of this happening numerous times, even on this list. I'm so glad that neither you nor anyone else got hurt. Regarding the strap hooked to the TX, I did this when I was new to the hobby and one time doing the same as you had a plane with an OS 72FS charge straight at me at full throttle while I was on my knees in front of it after starting it. Remarkably I was able to reach over the spinning prop and catch the plane by the fuse before it hit me. I vowed right then and there I would never leave the strap on the TX again. The other thing that I find scary is when people start their planes with the strap hanging down from their neck. That's a perfect opportunity for the strap to get caught by the prop and yank the running motor and pilots neck/face together. Glad you weren't hurt, sorry about the damage to the plane. Keith Black On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Hey All, > > > > Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I > altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt > starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx > while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it > sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that > the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward > startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved > the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into > the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two > pieces. > > > > I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment > was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such > catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that > type of abrupt side load. > > > > Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 > times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not > my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. > Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. > > > > Mark > > PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of > damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for > sure. > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sat Aug 22 13:14:13 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:14:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <77f26e410908221356v647ffbf5o4168c16403b95346@mail.gmail.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <77f26e410908221356v647ffbf5o4168c16403b95346@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73BA@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> We're on the same page there. Most that fly with me can tell you that I always tuck my neck strap into my shirt when I start the engine, but for some reason today I broke my habit with a bad result. Needless to say I'll be even more diligent about my normal routine going forward. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Keith Black Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 4:57 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Mark, that's a bummer, but as I was reading I was fearing you were going to say you reached out to grab it and got something cut off. I've heard of this happening numerous times, even on this list. I'm so glad that neither you nor anyone else got hurt. Regarding the strap hooked to the TX, I did this when I was new to the hobby and one time doing the same as you had a plane with an OS 72FS charge straight at me at full throttle while I was on my knees in front of it after starting it. Remarkably I was able to reach over the spinning prop and catch the plane by the fuse before it hit me. I vowed right then and there I would never leave the strap on the TX again. The other thing that I find scary is when people start their planes with the strap hanging down from their neck. That's a perfect opportunity for the strap to get caught by the prop and yank the running motor and pilots neck/face together. Glad you weren't hurt, sorry about the damage to the plane. Keith Black On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Atwood, Mark > wrote: Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle...enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They're just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I've picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don't change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It'll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Sat Aug 22 13:19:17 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:19:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Message-ID: Mark, sorry to hear of the damage to your plane. Thankfully you weren't 'damaged'. I understand fully when you mention your routine. I think we all have our routines for our planes. I know I have an assembly sequence that is very important and when someone interrupts me while I am assembling my plane, I usually just stop, finish the conversation and answer, then start over from the beginning of the sequence just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I have noticed recently that a few of the people I fly/compete with will actually tell someone to 'wait a minute' while they are finishing putting their plane together, then talk or answer questions. Keith, your comment on letting the neck strap dangle around the engine is right on. I just cringe when I see someone doing that. Don In a message dated 8/22/2009 1:57:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tkeithblack at gmail.com writes: Mark, that's a bummer, but as I was reading I was fearing you were going to say you reached out to grab it and got something cut off. I've heard of this happening numerous times, even on this list. I'm so glad that neither you nor anyone else got hurt. Regarding the strap hooked to the TX, I did this when I was new to the hobby and one time doing the same as you had a plane with an OS 72FS charge straight at me at full throttle while I was on my knees in front of it after starting it. Remarkably I was able to reach over the spinning prop and catch the plane by the fuse before it hit me. I vowed right then and there I would never leave the strap on the TX again. The other thing that I find scary is when people start their planes with the strap hanging down from their neck. That's a perfect opportunity for the strap to get caught by the prop and yank the running motor and pilots neck/face together. Glad you weren't hurt, sorry about the damage to the plane. Keith Black On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Atwood, Mark <_atwoodm at paragon-inc.com_ (mailto:atwoodm at paragon-inc.com) > wrote: Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list _NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org) _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Sat Aug 22 13:31:21 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:31:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident References: Message-ID: Well, I'll chime in with a new (to me) at least situation. I was starting my Piedmont Sport on one of the new safety benches, (I'll bet those things have saved a few fingers already) and I had just started my Y.S. 1.20 FS. It was running at, probably, 4-5K rpm. For some reason, it backfired, and started running backwards. Obviously, the prop is now trying to back the airplane up, which it did--too successfully. The bench was narrowed about 18 inches or so back, and the plane backed up to the narrow portion, and both wheels went off the bench, dropping the fuselage, (with engine running) onto the bench. The propeller converted itself into a hub and two flying dirks, that fortunately didn't hit anybody. I was by myself at the time, so there was little danger of injury, (the airplane was, naturally, backing away from me) but I now feel that I'll secure the plane with a bungee or something so it can't move fore or aft. Just thought I'd share this. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: AtwoodDon at aol.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Mark, sorry to hear of the damage to your plane. Thankfully you weren't 'damaged'. I understand fully when you mention your routine. I think we all have our routines for our planes. I know I have an assembly sequence that is very important and when someone interrupts me while I am assembling my plane, I usually just stop, finish the conversation and answer, then start over from the beginning of the sequence just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I have noticed recently that a few of the people I fly/compete with will actually tell someone to 'wait a minute' while they are finishing putting their plane together, then talk or answer questions. Keith, your comment on letting the neck strap dangle around the engine is right on. I just cringe when I see someone doing that. Don In a message dated 8/22/2009 1:57:16 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, tkeithblack at gmail.com writes: Mark, that's a bummer, but as I was reading I was fearing you were going to say you reached out to grab it and got something cut off. I've heard of this happening numerous times, even on this list. I'm so glad that neither you nor anyone else got hurt. Regarding the strap hooked to the TX, I did this when I was new to the hobby and one time doing the same as you had a plane with an OS 72FS charge straight at me at full throttle while I was on my knees in front of it after starting it. Remarkably I was able to reach over the spinning prop and catch the plane by the fuse before it hit me. I vowed right then and there I would never leave the strap on the TX again. The other thing that I find scary is when people start their planes with the strap hanging down from their neck. That's a perfect opportunity for the strap to get caught by the prop and yank the running motor and pilots neck/face together. Glad you weren't hurt, sorry about the damage to the plane. Keith Black On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 1:45 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaqfly at prodigy.net Sat Aug 22 13:44:30 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:44:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. ?Jim Quinn ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, ? Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground.? ?Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me.? In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces.? ? I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane.? They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. ? Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning.? I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached.? Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast.? Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. ? Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter.? Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up.? It?ll be a project for sure.? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sat Aug 22 13:50:48 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:50:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. > They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, > make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently > had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when > his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun > around and struck his hand. > > Jim Quinn > > > From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > Hey All, > > > Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because > I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked > into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply > clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. > Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up > my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped > the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. > In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the > throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing > into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage > into two pieces. > > > I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other > equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion > of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re > just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. > > > Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx > 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap > attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make > things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and > don?t change your habits. > > > Mark > > PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with > a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll > be a project for sure. > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlachow at hotmail.com Sat Aug 22 15:38:26 2009 From: jlachow at hotmail.com (Joe Lachowski) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:38:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It boggles mind as to how many people don't use a stooge. I learned the hard way early on with one of my smaller electrics. I use mine all the time unless I have someone holding the plane. Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 14:44:29 -0700 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jerry at buddengineering.com Sat Aug 22 15:47:14 2009 From: jerry at buddengineering.com (Budd Engineering) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:47:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> Message-ID: I've made performing a control surface "polarity check" part of my preflight checklist for the last 20 years or so. I haven't caught anything yet, but I've seen enough over the last couple of decades to know that it'll payoff some day. Besides, it only takes about 10 seconds to do it (I do it every flight, not just the first flight of the day). Jerry Sent from my iPhone On Aug 22, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote: > My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo > connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. > Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before > carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > >> Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. >> They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, >> make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently >> had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when >> his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun >> around and struck his hand. >> >> Jim Quinn >> >> >> From: "Atwood, Mark" >> To: General pattern discussion >> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >> >> Hey All, >> >> >> Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because >> I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked >> into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply >> clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. >> Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up >> my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped >> the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. >> In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the >> throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing >> into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage >> into two pieces. >> >> >> I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other >> equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion >> of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re j >> ust not meant for that type of abrupt side load. >> >> >> Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my t >> x 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap atta >> ched. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things g >> o VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t cha >> nge your habits. >> >> >> Mark >> >> PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with >> a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll >> be a project for sure. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sat Aug 22 16:09:44 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:09:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> Message-ID: <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Ron, I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just to make D@^#@ sure... At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the >aileron servo connections if I am disturbed >while assembling the airplane. Consequently, >John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before >carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. > >Ron VP > >On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > >>Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! >>I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful >>trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, >>make a routine and stick with it. A good >>budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a >>mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when >>his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing >>and the plane spun around and struck his hand. >> >>Jim Quinn >> >> >> >>From: "Atwood, Mark" >><atwoodm at paragon-inc.com> >>To: General pattern discussion >><nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM >>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >> >>Hey All, >> >> >>Had a bad morning this morning because I got >>careless, and because I altered my normal >>habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked >>into my shirt starting the airplane, but this >>morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while >>it was sitting on the ground. Started my >>primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, >>picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny >>such that the strap bumped the throttle enough >>to make the plane jump forward startling >>me. In the split second that I moved to catch >>it, the strap moved the throttle higher and >>before I could recover it, it slammed the wing >>into the table next to me hard enough to snap >>the entire fuselage into two pieces. >> >> >>I was very fortunate that no one was injured >>and that no other equipment was damaged, but I >>was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) >>such catastrophic damage occur to the >>plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. >> >> >>Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the >>warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times >>without incident, but seldom do I have the >>strap attached. Just not my routine. But one >>odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, >>VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. >> >> >>Mark >> >>PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse >>is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the >>wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sat Aug 22 16:26:22 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:26:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong airplane (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of times I watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, takeoff and crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > Ron, > > I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make > D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just > to make D@^#@ sure... > > At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >> My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo >> connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. >> Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before >> carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: >> >>> Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. >>> They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with >>> Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine >>> recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 >>> glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the >>> plane spun around and struck his hand. >>> >>> Jim Quinn >>> >>> >>> >>> From: "Atwood, Mark" >>> To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >>> >>> Hey All, >>> >>> >>> Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and >>> because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap >>> tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I >>> simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the >>> ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, >>> picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the >>> strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward >>> startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the >>> strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it >>> slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap >>> the entire fuselage into two pieces. >>> >>> >>> I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other >>> equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion >>> of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re >>> just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. >>> >>> >>> Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my >>> tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap >>> attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make >>> things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and >>> don?t change your habits. >>> >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces >>> with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. >>> It?ll be a project for sure. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sat Aug 22 17:10:53 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:10:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> Message-ID: <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Ron As far as I know, the JR Spektrum systems are the only ones that have Model Match. If others know differently, I'd like to know... At 08:26 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you >can't "wiggle the sticks" and get a response if >you have selected the wrong airplane (at least >with my radio). I can't count the number of >times I watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a >72 MHz system, takeoff and crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." > >Ron VP > >On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > >>Ron, >> >>I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY >>flight, just to make D@^#@ sure...I also check >>the Rx battery after every flight, just to make D@^#@ sure... >> >>At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >>>My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach >>>the aileron servo connections if I am >>>disturbed while assembling the >>>airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to >>>"wiggle the sticks" before carrying the >>>airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. >>> >>>Ron VP >>> >>>On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: >>> >>>>Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the >>>>Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are >>>>beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree >>>>with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A >>>>good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches >>>>from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 >>>>glow) when his throttle went to high, he >>>>grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. >>>> >>>>Jim Quinn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>From: "Atwood, Mark" >>>><atwoodm at paragon-inc.com > >>>>To: General pattern discussion >>>>< nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>>>Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM >>>>Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >>>> >>>>Hey All, >>>> >>>> >>>>Had a bad morning this morning because I got >>>>careless, and because I altered my normal >>>>habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked >>>>into my shirt starting the airplane, but this >>>>morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while >>>>it was sitting on the ground. Started my >>>>primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, >>>>picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx >>>>funny such that the strap bumped the >>>>throttle enough to make the plane jump >>>>forward startling me. In the split second >>>>that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the >>>>throttle higher and before I could recover >>>>it, it slammed the wing into the table next >>>>to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. >>>> >>>> >>>>I was very fortunate that no one was injured >>>>and that no other equipment was damaged, but >>>>I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of >>>>course) such catastrophic damage occur to the >>>>plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. >>>> >>>> >>>>Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the >>>>warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times >>>>without incident, but seldom do I have the >>>>strap attached. Just not my routine. But one >>>>odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, >>>>VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. >>>> >>>> >>>>Mark >>>> >>>>PS, probably repairable over the >>>>winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of >>>>damage, and the wing that hit is pretty >>>>messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >>--> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. >> >>Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox >>County Radio Control Society, Inc. >> URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >>AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >> My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ >> (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sat Aug 22 17:23:22 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:23:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> My Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter won't work with the wrong airplane. Ron On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > Ron > > As far as I know, the JR Spektrum systems are the only ones that > have Model Match. If others know differently, I'd like to know... > > At 08:26 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >> These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the >> sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong airplane >> (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of times I >> watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, takeoff >> and crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: >> >>> Ron, >>> >>> I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make >>> D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just >>> to make D@^#@ sure... >>> >>> At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >>>> My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo >>>> connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. >>>> Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before >>>> carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. >>>> >>>> Ron VP >>>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: >>>> >>>>> Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really >>>>> sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I >>>>> agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good >>>>> budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric >>>>> (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he >>>>> grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. >>>>> >>>>> Jim Quinn >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: "Atwood, Mark" >>>>> To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM >>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >>>>> >>>>> Hey All, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and >>>>> because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck >>>>> strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this >>>>> morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on >>>>> the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on >>>>> idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that >>>>> the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump >>>>> forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to >>>>> catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I >>>>> could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me >>>>> hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other >>>>> equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow >>>>> motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. >>>>> They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up >>>>> my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the >>>>> strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can >>>>> make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be >>>>> methodical, and don?t change your habits. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mark >>>>> >>>>> PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces >>>>> with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed >>>>> up. It?ll be a project for sure. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. >>> >>> Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control >>> Society, Inc. >>> URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >>> AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >>> My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ >>> (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sat Aug 22 17:32:50 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 01:32:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B8@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B8@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <990015.49853.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion ; Dan Bregar Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:47:07 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest Is anyone going to the St. Clairesville contest looking to share a room? Dan Bregar is new to pattern, this will be his first contest and he?s looking for someone to split a room with. If you are going and can help out, I?ve copied him on this email (he?s not on the list yet) please contact him off list. -Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sat Aug 22 18:07:00 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:07:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB868@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Same for the Airtronics SD10 if you're using FHSS-3 rx's (which is what it comes with). The older ones don't lock out. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sat Aug 22 21:23:17 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident My Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter won't work with the wrong airplane. Ron On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: Ron As far as I know, the JR Spektrum systems are the only ones that have Model Match. If others know differently, I'd like to know... At 08:26 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong airplane (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of times I watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, takeoff and crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: Ron, I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just to make D@^#@ sure... At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From schale at optonline.net Sat Aug 22 18:23:00 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:23:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Sat Aug 22 18:31:01 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 02:31:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> Message-ID: All I can say is that I had the wrong airplane on my Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter and the airplane would not respond. Ron On Aug 22, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Stuart Chale wrote: > Unless this is something new then that is not correct. Once a > receiver is bound to a transmitter then it will work with whatever > program (model) is active with the Futaba system. Spektrum > receivers on the other hand when bound are linked to a specific > model only. > Stuart > > Ronald Van Putte wrote: >> >> My Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter won't work with the wrong >> airplane. >> >> Ron >> >> On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: >> >>> Ron >>> >>> As far as I know, the JR Spektrum systems are the only ones that >>> have Model Match. If others know differently, I'd like to know... >>> >>> At 08:26 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >>>> These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the >>>> sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong >>>> airplane (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of >>>> times I watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, >>>> takeoff and crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." >>>> >>>> Ron VP >>>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ron, >>>>> >>>>> I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make >>>>> D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, >>>>> just to make D@^#@ sure... >>>>> >>>>> At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >>>>>> My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo >>>>>> connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. >>>>>> Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before >>>>>> carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ron VP >>>>>> >>>>>> On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really >>>>>>> sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I >>>>>>> agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good >>>>>>> budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric >>>>>>> (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he >>>>>>> grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim Quinn >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: "Atwood, Mark" >>>>>>> To: General pattern discussion < nsrca- >>>>>>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and >>>>>>> because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck >>>>>>> strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this >>>>>>> morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting >>>>>>> on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it >>>>>>> sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx >>>>>>> funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make >>>>>>> the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second >>>>>>> that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher >>>>>>> and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the >>>>>>> table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into >>>>>>> two pieces. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no >>>>>>> other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in >>>>>>> slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the >>>>>>> plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side >>>>>>> load. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up >>>>>>> my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the >>>>>>> strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement >>>>>>> can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be >>>>>>> methodical, and don?t change your habits. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mark >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces >>>>>>> with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed >>>>>>> up. It?ll be a project for sure. >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>>>> >>>>> --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. >>>>> >>>>> Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio >>>>> Control Society, Inc. >>>>> URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >>>>> AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >>>>> My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ >>>>> (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. >>> >>> Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control >>> Society, Inc. >>> URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >>> AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >>> My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ >>> (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sat Aug 22 19:10:51 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:10:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Were they both set to the same type of RF modulation output? That would prevent it from operating too. I was unaware that Futaba had binding at the model level. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:31 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident All I can say is that I had the wrong airplane on my Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter and the airplane would not respond. Ron On Aug 22, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Stuart Chale wrote: Unless this is something new then that is not correct. Once a receiver is bound to a transmitter then it will work with whatever program (model) is active with the Futaba system. Spektrum receivers on the other hand when bound are linked to a specific model only. Stuart Ronald Van Putte wrote: My Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter won't work with the wrong airplane. Ron On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: Ron As far as I know, the JR Spektrum systems are the only ones that have Model Match. If others know differently, I'd like to know... At 08:26 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong airplane (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of times I watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, takeoff and crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: Ron, I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just to make D@^#@ sure... At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle...enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They're just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I've picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don't change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It'll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeff at priusonline.com Sat Aug 22 19:21:57 2009 From: jeff at priusonline.com (Jeff Hatton) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:21:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <612809B6-5196-410E-82DD-C5D96511747F@priusonline.com> I have my only 14 Channel reciever in my black magic, since all the other planes use the older recievers my black magic only responds when I have the correct plane selected. - Jeff Hatton ------ If engineers designed machines like lawyers make laws, you'd need to hire an engineer to operate even the most trivial machine. On Aug 22, 2009, at 11:03 PM, "Atwood, Mark" wrote: > Were they both set to the same type of RF modulation output? That > would prevent it from operating too. I was unaware that Futaba had > binding at the model level. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:31 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > All I can say is that I had the wrong airplane on my Futaba 12FGA > 2.4 GHz SS transmitter and the airplane would not respond. > > > > Ron > > > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Stuart Chale wrote: > > > > > Unless this is something new then that is not correct. Once a > receiver is bound to a transmitter then it will work with whatever > program (model) is active with the Futaba system. Spektrum > receivers on the other hand when bound are linked to a specific > model only. > Stuart > > Ronald Van Putte wrote: > > My Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter won't work with the wrong > airplane. > > > > Ron > > > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > > > > > Ron > > As far as I know, the JR Spektrum systems are the only ones that > have Model Match. If others know differently, I'd like to know... > > At 08:26 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: > > > These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the > sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong airplane > (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of times I > watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, takeoff and > crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." > > Ron VP > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > > > > Ron, > > I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make D@^#@ > sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just to make > D@^#@ sure... > > At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: > > > My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo > connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. > Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before > carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > > > > Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. > They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, > make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently > had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when > his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun > around and struck his hand. > > Jim Quinn > > > > From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > Hey All, > > > Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I > altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into > my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it > onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary > Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow > turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough t > o make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second tha > t I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and befor > e I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me > hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. > > > I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other > equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of > course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just n > ot meant for that type of abrupt side load. > > > Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx > 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached > . Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY > wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your > habits. > > > Mark > > PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a > lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be > a project for sure. > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dkrev at shaw.ca Sat Aug 22 19:46:23 2009 From: dkrev at shaw.ca (dkrev at shaw.ca) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 03:46:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net><20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com><985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net><20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com><9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net><4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <75160876-1250999177-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1431403012-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Mark you are correct. I have flown a different model with a similar setup as the original after not changing the model within the TX. It was my error but the wrong plane was flyable. Both were on a single tx running 2.4. One must take the time to ensure correct model selection with Futaba. Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: "Atwood, Mark" Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 23:03:45 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jerry at buddengineering.com Sat Aug 22 21:56:59 2009 From: jerry at buddengineering.com (Budd Engineering) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 05:56:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> Message-ID: <2CE39D30-75CF-4E7D-AD56-C6547E078D99@buddengineering.com> That's why I do a "polarity check", i.e. I verify that each channel is moving in the proper direction before continuing. I also set up all my pattern planes so that even if I have the wrong model selected, the worse that can happen is I takeoff and my trims are off a bit (only did that once, and I caught it before I finished the downwind trim pass). Jerry Sent from my iPhone On Aug 22, 2009, at 5:26 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote: > These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the > sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong airplane > (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of times I > watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, takeoff and > crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." > > Ron VP > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > >> Ron, >> >> I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make >> D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just >> to make D@^#@ sure... >> >> At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: >>> My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo >>> connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. >>> Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before >>> carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. >>> >>> Ron VP >>> >>> On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: >>> >>>> Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. >>>> They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with >>>> Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine >>>> recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 >>>> glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the >>>> plane spun around and struck his hand. >>>> >>>> Jim Quinn >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: "Atwood, Mark" >>>> To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>>> Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM >>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >>>> >>>> Hey All, >>>> >>>> >>>> Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and >>>> because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap >>>> tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I >>>> simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the >>>> ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, >>>> picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the >>>> strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forwar >>>> d startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, >>>> the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recove >>>> r it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enoug >>>> h to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. >>>> >>>> >>>> I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other >>>> equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion >>>> of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They? >>>> re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. >>>> >>>> >>>> Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up >>>> my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the st >>>> rap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can m >>>> ake things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodica >>>> l, and don?t change your habits. >>>> >>>> >>>> Mark >>>> >>>> PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces >>>> with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. >>>> It?ll be a project for sure. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. >> >> Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control >> Society, Inc. >> URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >> AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >> My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ >> (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Sat Aug 22 22:17:30 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 06:17:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <2CE39D30-75CF-4E7D-AD56-C6547E078D99@buddengineering.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <2CE39D30-75CF-4E7D-AD56-C6547E078D99@buddengineering.com> Message-ID: <4A90DEF8.30303@cox.net> Budd Engineering wrote: > That's why I do a "polarity check", i.e. I verify that each channel is > moving in the proper direction before continuing. I also set up all > my pattern planes so that even if I have the wrong model selected, the > worse that can happen is I takeoff and my trims are off a bit (only > did that once, and I caught it before I finished the downwind trim pass). Every full size pilot knows the term during run up where you check that your controls are free AND correct!!. I do like Jerry does as much as possible as well. That's one thing I like about my 14MZ while it will let me choose the wrong model at least it also lets me put a small photo of it on the screen as if to say "well, I tried". From vanputte at cox.net Sun Aug 23 02:20:36 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 10:20:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net> That may be the reason. One airplane used 2048 and the other used 1024 modulation. Ron On Aug 22, 2009, at 10:03 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Were they both set to the same type of RF modulation output? That > would prevent it from operating too. I was unaware that Futaba had > binding at the model level. > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- > discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 10:31 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > All I can say is that I had the wrong airplane on my Futaba 12FGA > 2.4 GHz SS transmitter and the airplane would not respond. > > > > Ron > > > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 9:22 PM, Stuart Chale wrote: > > > > > Unless this is something new then that is not correct. Once a > receiver is bound to a transmitter then it will work with whatever > program (model) is active with the Futaba system. Spektrum > receivers on the other hand when bound are linked to a specific > model only. > Stuart > > Ronald Van Putte wrote: > > My Futaba 12FGA 2.4 GHz SS transmitter won't work with the wrong > airplane. > > > > Ron > > > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 8:10 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > > > > > Ron > > As far as I know, the JR Spektrum systems are the only ones that > have Model Match. If others know differently, I'd like to know... > > At 08:26 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: > > > These 2.4 GHz SS radios are great, because you can't "wiggle the > sticks" and get a response if you have selected the wrong airplane > (at least with my radio). I can't count the number of times I > watched a guy "wiggle the sticks" with a 72 MHz system, takeoff and > crash, only to say, "Hmmm, this must be model #3." > > Ron VP > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Phil Spelt wrote: > > > > Ron, > > I ALWAYS "wiggle the sticks" before EVERY flight, just to make > D@^#@ sure...I also check the Rx battery after every flight, just > to make D@^#@ sure... > > At 05:50 PM 8/22/2009, you wrote: > > > My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo > connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. > Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before > carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > > > > Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. > They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, > make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently > had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when > his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun > around and struck his hand. > > Jim Quinn > > > > From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > Hey All, > > > Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because > I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked > into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply > clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. > Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up > my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped > the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. > In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the > throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing > into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage > into two pieces. > > > I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other > equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion > of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re > just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. > > > Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx > 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap > attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make > things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and > don?t change your habits. > > > Mark > > PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with > a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll > be a project for sure. > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > > Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control > Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com > AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Sun Aug 23 05:38:53 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:38:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net> Message-ID: <692364.86341.qm@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,,? Gehards from the WC I beleive..... ? http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BUDDYonRC at aol.com Sun Aug 23 05:53:07 2009 From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com (BUDDYonRC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:53:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Message-ID: Is there a site where we can get WC results? Buddy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 06:45:44 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 14:45:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <692364.86341.qm@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net> <692364.86341.qm@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090823144544.121EE11622@bridi.netexpress.com> My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: >Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this >page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... > > > >http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Sun Aug 23 07:24:41 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:24:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A915F37.1070002@cox.net> BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote: > Is there a site where we can get WC results? > Buddy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Derek has some preliminary scores on RCU: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9017521/anchors_9037611/mpage_3/anchor/tm.htm# Official Site is here: http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/classifications.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ghwatson at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 07:25:47 2009 From: ghwatson at comcast.net (Glen Watson) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:25:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder -> scores In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19FE2691F6B2485A9E1C7A7F7BE45A7B@telapoint.local> Here ya go Buddy.. http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of BUDDYonRC at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:53 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Is there a site where we can get WC results? Buddy _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgalligan at att.net Sun Aug 23 07:30:57 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:30:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <20090823144544.121EE11622@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net><20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com><985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net><20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com><9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net><4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net><692364.86341.qm@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20090823144544.121EE11622@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC> There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 08:00:20 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:00:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net> <692364.86341.qm@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20090823144544.121EE11622@bridi.netexpress.com> <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC> Message-ID: <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> Yes, (del aleman = of the some country I think, maybe German[y]) Gunther Ulsamer has a carbon fiber strip to reduce turbulence, and something about laminar flow. Yes, definitely thrust-vectoring on the Plettenberg motor -- looks like there are 7 positions or steps to the vectoring. I'd bet that really helps in a cross-wind!!! Also, I didn't notice the deflectors at the bottom of the fuse -- I guess that will counter any roll-coupling effect from the top ones. I'd love to see an assessment of what they do and how well... All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ At 11:30 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: >There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is >using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too >about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very >goot either. > >Wayne Galligan > >From: Phil Spelt >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder > >My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it >is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative >(????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical >stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- >what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does >it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that >they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at >the TOP of the rudder... > >At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: > >>Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this >>page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... >> >> >> >>http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >--> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > >Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control >Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > >---------- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 08:33:19 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:33:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC> Message-ID: <724228539.2588061251045198754.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> It is Spanish .? I will translate the most important portions and let you know later.? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Galligan " < wgalligan @ att .net> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:30:04 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too.? Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards , and something about an innovative (????something)? small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag???? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top?? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,,? Gehards from the WC I beleive ..... ? http :// www .acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/ viewtopic . php ?f=19&t=4597&start=105 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. ?????? URL: http :// www . kcrctn .com AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 ????? My URL: http :// mywebpages .comcast.net/~ chuenkan / ????? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. ?????? URL: http :// www . kcrctn .com AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 ????? My URL: http :// mywebpages .comcast.net/~ chuenkan / ????? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Sun Aug 23 08:41:11 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:41:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <724228539.2588061251045198754.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC> <724228539.2588061251045198754.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <000c01ca2410$7fbd27a0$7f3776e0$@net> Looks to me like someone broke into an F1 garage and started copying things they saw on the cars? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder It is Spanish. I will translate the most important portions and let you know later. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Galligan" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:30:04 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19 &t=4597&start=105 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rctechnics at yahoo.com Sun Aug 23 08:43:29 2009 From: rctechnics at yahoo.com (Paul Hepworth) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:43:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Integral and P11-F11 In-Reply-To: <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net> <692364.86341.qm@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20090823144544.121EE11622@bridi.netexpress.com> <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC> <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <650660.51873.qm@web36606.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Is any one making any plans on any modifications on there C-ARF Integral, to help improve the overall and knife edge performance for P11-F11? ? Example: T Canalizer, side force generators, thicker rudder, larger rudder area and thinker wing TE. ?I have noticed Jason has added a T-can and a rudder with a thinker TE at the worlds. __________________________________________________________________ Be smarter than spam. See how smart SpamGuard is at giving junk email the boot with the All-new Yahoo! Mail. Click on Options in Mail and switch to New Mail today or register for free at http://mail.yahoo.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From BUDDYonRC at aol.com Sun Aug 23 08:52:07 2009 From: BUDDYonRC at aol.com (BUDDYonRC at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:52:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder -> scores Message-ID: Thanks Glenn -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Sun Aug 23 09:06:46 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:06:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <20090823000943.F3D40115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <985780AB-1384-4120-94EF-B7DF7E86B8A0@cox.net> <20090823011053.4B151115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> <9629678D-2561-4D13-A6DF-17838A7B7129@cox.net> <4A90A7F5.9020707@optonline.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73C7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <724239DC-23DF-40DF-947D-2CF7D1D54A90@cox.net> <692364.86341.qm@web112111.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <20090823144544.121EE11622@bridi.netexpress.com> <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC> <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: Here's a link to Chad's blog. He talked to Bernd Bernshorner about his motor offset... there's a short blurb about it.... http://www.chadnortheast.ca/ Rex Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:00:19 -0400 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org From: chuenkan at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Yes, (del aleman = of the some country I think, maybe German[y]) Gunther Ulsamer has a carbon fiber strip to reduce turbulence, and something about laminar flow. Yes, definitely thrust-vectoring on the Plettenberg motor -- looks like there are 7 positions or steps to the vectoring. I'd bet that really helps in a cross-wind!!! Also, I didn't notice the deflectors at the bottom of the fuse -- I guess that will counter any roll-coupling effect from the top ones. I'd love to see an assessment of what they do and how well... All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ At 11:30 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion--> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sun Aug 23 10:08:03 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:08:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Message-ID: <137326.57569.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> At the NATS this year I decided it was time to make the move to 2.4G SS. Upon my return I ordered the new Airtronics SD-10G. My original plan was to use it in my as yet to be assembled Integral, but I bought an additional 7 channel receiver to convert my Temptation. I was flying the Temptation with a Stylus TX, and it was equipped with Airtronics servos with old-style connectors. I ordered some JR plug ends from Servos and Stuff, and replaced the Airtronics end with the JR plugs. You can remove the internal pins by gently pressing the small metal locking tab and removing the pin, then push it in the new connector, careful to put the +, -, and signal wires in the correct orientation. The whole operation took about an hour to change the six ends, install the new receiver , and orient the antenna wires per the intructions. I configured the servo travel, dual rates, and expo to the same values as my Stylus as a starting point. I had to mechanicaly re-center the elevator, it had a visible amount of "down" with the new radio set at 0 center. Although the Stylus showed the elevator was centered, there was some signiciant down trim on that surface. It probably was that way from the begining, I had copied another plane as the starting point way back when and did not realize the down trim was there. I did a range check using the SD-10G's low power mode, then was ready for the moment of truth. The plane required the slightest elevator trim to fly level. I had the initial rates set a little too aggresive for me, so I did some more tuning and now it "feels" just like it did with the Stylus. Those of you contemplating the switch should look at the new SD-10G, probably the best value radio out there right now. A ton of programming features and enough 3 position switches to keep anybody happy. I really like the throttle cut momentary button. There new style Airtronics "Z" connectors are compatable with JR and Hitec (not sure about Futaba). Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From rcmaster199 at aol.com Sun Aug 23 10:16:19 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:16:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <000c01ca2410$7fbd27a0$7f3776e0$@net> References: <000c01ca2410$7fbd27a0$7f3776e0$@net> Message-ID: <8CBF23483D7F79C-12C4-3637@FWM-M43.sysops.aol.com> Arch, That makes perfect sense. Both vehicle types travel fast enough, meaning they displace a great deal of air mass. Air is surprisingly "heavy" at these speeds and small corrective surfaces will assist some design imperfections. The problem with corrective surfaces is that they are speed dependent and relationships (speed and force) are not linear. Thrust vectoring is fine but that also is a correction for the spiraling air stream, the necessary evil of patterndom and all things with a single propeller providing the thrust. I am looking forward to someone (maybe myself) creating an egg-crate of sorts just behind the prop to straighten the flow. Downline brakes would be tremendous and need for thrust off sets nil. Canard surfaces in my new design are set-up to do precisely that...straighten a % of air flow from the prop. Now IF I EVER GET TO FINISH the crate. A really good compromise is the set-up that Silvestri has used before, that of the coaxial contra-rotating props up front. Probably a little heavier and considerably more complex than a single, movable power plant tho. Another very good approach (also more complex) is a counter-rotating twin. Electric power is ideal for such a set-up. This idea is being pursued in control line stunt circles BTW. MattK PS. Hey Arch...how does an 80 gram 20 X 10 sound ? Considerably stiffer than the plastic stuff. -----Original Message----- From: Archie Stafford <astafford at swtexas.net> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Sun, Aug 23, 2009 12:40 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Looks to me like someone broke into an F1 garage and started copying things they saw on the cars? ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder ? It is Spanish.? I will translate the most important portions and let you know later.? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Galligan" <wgalligan at att.net> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:30:04 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too.? Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too.20Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. ? Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder ? My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something)? small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag???? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top?? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,,? Gehards from the WC I beleive..... ? http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 _______________________________ ________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. ?????? URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 ????? My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ ????? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Sun Aug 23 10:18:23 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:18:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <137326.57569.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <351209.40768.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks for the update Bob. Mine will be here on Tuesday. It'll be fun getting used to it. I've wanted one since my buddies saw Mark with it in Toledo. I suspect it will have a lot of users soon. Mike --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Bob Kane wrote: > From: Bob Kane > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 1:08 PM > At the NATS this year I decided it > was time to make the move to 2.4G SS. Upon my return I > ordered the new Airtronics SD-10G. My original plan was to > use it in my as yet to be assembled Integral, but I bought > an additional 7 channel receiver to convert my Temptation. I > was flying the Temptation with a Stylus TX, and it was > equipped with Airtronics servos with old-style > connectors.? I ordered some JR plug ends from Servos > and Stuff, and replaced the Airtronics end with the JR > plugs.? You can remove the internal pins by gently > pressing the small metal locking tab and removing the pin, > then push it in the new connector, careful to put the +, -, > and signal wires in the correct orientation. The whole > operation took about an hour to change the six ends, install > the new receiver , and orient the antenna wires per the > intructions. I configured the servo travel, dual rates, and > expo to the same values as my Stylus as a starting > point.? I had to mechanicaly > re-center the elevator, it had a visible amount of "down" > with the new radio set at 0 center.? Although the > Stylus showed the elevator was centered, there was some > signiciant down trim on that surface.? It probably was > that way from the begining, I had copied another plane as > the starting point way back when and did not realize the > down trim was there. > > I did a range check using the SD-10G's low power mode, then > was ready for the moment of truth. The plane required the > slightest elevator trim to fly level.? I had the > initial rates set a little too aggresive for me, so I did > some more tuning and now it "feels" just like it did with > the Stylus. > > Those of you contemplating the switch should look at the > new SD-10G, probably the best value radio out there right > now. A ton of programming features and enough 3 position > switches to keep anybody happy. I really like the throttle > cut momentary button.???There new style > Airtronics "Z" connectors are compatable with JR and Hitec > (not sure about Futaba). > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From jnhiller at earthlink.net Sun Aug 23 10:37:06 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:37:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Rex, that caught my eye right away, in-flight thrust adjustment. Mount the motor on a flexible rubber sheet donut shaped disk and move the rear of the motor with two servos (V&H axis), mixing as needed. Maybe clamp onto the front housing behind the drive washer. Might have to run a 4+" spinner. Since I'm in the middle of designing a new airframe anyway I will ruff out a drawing and bring it to Creswell. When I get the header for the 1.60 I was going to breadboard the power system for a backyard run-up to get an idea what the tune length would need to be. Maybe I could check out some thrust vectoring ideas with the same set-up. Might not happen until I get back from the Scale Masters though. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:07 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Here's a link to Chad's blog. He talked to Bernd Bernshorner about his motor offset... there's a short blurb about it.... http://www.chadnortheast.ca/ Rex _____ Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:00:19 -0400 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org From: chuenkan at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Yes, (del aleman = of the some country I think, maybe German[y]) Gunther Ulsamer has a carbon fiber strip to reduce turbulence, and something about laminar flow. Yes, definitely thrust-vectoring on the Plettenberg motor -- looks like there are 7 positions or steps to the vectoring. I'd bet that really helps in a cross-wind!!! Also, I didn't notice the deflectors at the bottom of the fuse -- I guess that will counter any roll-coupling effect from the top ones. I'd love to see an assessment of what they do and how well... All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ At 11:30 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smaragdz at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 23 10:51:19 2009 From: smaragdz at bellsouth.net (Ryan Smith) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:51:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <000c01ca2410$7fbd27a0$7f3776e0$@net> References: <8AC87C105839445EB3B3FB60EBA2CCBD@WaynePC><724228539.2588061251045198754.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <000c01ca2410$7fbd27a0$7f3776e0$@net> Message-ID: <082320091851.20417.4A918FA1000B4A6A00004FC122243322829B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> Or just made the rudder too fat. -------------- Original message from "Archie Stafford" : -------------- Looks to me like someone broke into an F1 garage and started copying things they saw on the cars? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:33 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder It is Spanish. I will translate the most important portions and let you know later. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Galligan" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:30:04 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jferrell13 at triad.rr.com Sun Aug 23 11:26:13 2009 From: jferrell13 at triad.rr.com (John Ferrell) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:26:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> <54f1efb30908221255v3f4949c8je30e73b5f7020ac2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8C9E5C83E50E4796B3FD0AC34D3387BC@xppro2> Found this on the web site about the FAT RUDDER: http://www.depablos.net/REMOLQUES-RP.pdf Itty-biddy trailers may get very popular... John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel McLalin To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Now you're talking about moving up to a Dodge Sprinter Diesel. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM, astropuppy wrote: Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 23 12:35:20 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:35:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com><266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com><4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com><54f1efb30908221255v3f4949c8je30e73b5f7020ac2@mail.gmail.com> <8C9E5C83E50E4796B3FD0AC34D3387BC@xppro2> Message-ID: <1B7CF8913DBF4860B9027D84C18B2D89@glazecstp32xp> Some time back, there used to be a trailer specially manufactured (in this country) for models, in particular for pattern models. Had two top openings, (the top of the trailer was kind of rounded) and these 2 doors opened up, somewhat like a butterfly Porsche. Anybody know whatever happened to the company, (or does anybody even remember the trailer? Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ferrell To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Found this on the web site about the FAT RUDDER: http://www.depablos.net/REMOLQUES-RP.pdf Itty-biddy trailers may get very popular... John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel McLalin To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Now you're talking about moving up to a Dodge Sprinter Diesel. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM, astropuppy wrote: Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www.firehow.com www.premierbowlers.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sun Aug 23 12:36:12 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:36:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores Message-ID: <641036.47839.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I pulled this data off the Worlds website http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/index.php Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 510.0000 0.0000 510.0000 0.0000 0.0000 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 505.2000 0.0000 505.2000 0.0000 0.0000 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 503.2000 0.0000 503.2000 0.0000 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 489.6000 0.0000 489.6000 0.0000 0.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 484.8000 484.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 479.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 479.8000 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 473.8000 0.0000 0.0000 473.8000 0.0000 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 471.6000 0.0000 471.6000 0.0000 0.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 471.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 471.2000 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 467.6000 0.0000 0.0000 467.6000 0.0000 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 467.0000 0.0000 467.0000 0.0000 0.0000 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 464.8000 0.0000 0.0000 464.8000 0.0000 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 460.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 460.2000 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 457.4000 0.0000 457.4000 0.0000 0.0000 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 455.0000 0.0000 455.0000 0.0000 0.0000 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 451.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 451.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 450.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 450.8000 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 450.4000 0.0000 0.0000 450.4000 0.0000 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 445.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.8000 97 NURILA LASSI FIN 445.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.0000 I'm hoping panel 4 was tough, Andrew had the highest score from that panel. Oh yeah, GO TEAM !!!!!!!! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From getterflash at yahoo.com Sun Aug 23 12:42:25 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:42:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <351209.40768.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <351209.40768.qm@web51009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <927455.70515.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Make sure you RTFM . . . . . . I spent maybe an hour browsing it before actually getting in there and programming. Had a couple of do-overs as a result of not fully understanding the relationships between models. flight modes, etc. And, as Mark has already said, pull the battery and charge it with a peak charger outside the case. The manual warns that you cannot use a peak charger while the battery is installed, there must be some circuits between the jack and the battery. The battery has a standard "Z" connector so finding a cord should be easy. It is also a 6 cell NiMH pack. I thought that was different but they are ready to accept a 2 cell LiPo pack if you choose. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: mike mueller To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:18:21 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Thanks for the update Bob. Mine will be here on Tuesday. It'll be fun getting used to it. I've wanted one since my buddies saw Mark with it in Toledo. I suspect it will have a lot of users soon. Mike --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Bob Kane wrote: > From: Bob Kane > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 1:08 PM > At the NATS this year I decided it > was time to make the move to 2.4G SS. Upon my return I > ordered the new Airtronics SD-10G. My original plan was to > use it in my as yet to be assembled Integral, but I bought > an additional 7 channel receiver to convert my Temptation. I > was flying the Temptation with a Stylus TX, and it was > equipped with Airtronics servos with old-style > connectors. I ordered some JR plug ends from Servos > and Stuff, and replaced the Airtronics end with the JR > plugs. You can remove the internal pins by gently > pressing the small metal locking tab and removing the pin, > then push it in the new connector, careful to put the +, -, > and signal wires in the correct orientation. The whole > operation took about an hour to change the six ends, install > the new receiver , and orient the antenna wires per the > intructions. I configured the servo travel, dual rates, and > expo to the same values as my Stylus as a starting > point. I had to mechanicaly > re-center the elevator, it had a visible amount of "down" > with the new radio set at 0 center. Although the > Stylus showed the elevator was centered, there was some > signiciant down trim on that surface. It probably was > that way from the begining, I had copied another plane as > the starting point way back when and did not realize the > down trim was there. > > I did a range check using the SD-10G's low power mode, then > was ready for the moment of truth. The plane required the > slightest elevator trim to fly level. I had the > initial rates set a little too aggresive for me, so I did > some more tuning and now it "feels" just like it did with > the Stylus. > > Those of you contemplating the switch should look at the > new SD-10G, probably the best value radio out there right > now. A ton of programming features and enough 3 position > switches to keep anybody happy. I really like the throttle > cut momentary button. There new style > Airtronics "Z" connectors are compatable with JR and Hitec > (not sure about Futaba). > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From burtona at atmc.net Sun Aug 23 12:51:08 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:51:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores In-Reply-To: <641036.47839.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <641036.47839.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004201ca2433$82827440$87875cc0$@net> Good flying US team! My hero - Wolfgang matt - How does someone his age continue to fly at such a high level for so long? He's been flying near or at the top level for nearly 40 years! Dave Burton -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:36 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores I pulled this data off the Worlds website http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/index.php Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 510.0000 0.0000 510.0000 0.0000 0.0000 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 505.2000 0.0000 505.2000 0.0000 0.0000 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 503.2000 0.0000 503.2000 0.0000 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 489.6000 0.0000 489.6000 0.0000 0.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 484.8000 484.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 479.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 479.8000 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 473.8000 0.0000 0.0000 473.8000 0.0000 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 471.6000 0.0000 471.6000 0.0000 0.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 471.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 471.2000 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 467.6000 0.0000 0.0000 467.6000 0.0000 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 467.0000 0.0000 467.0000 0.0000 0.0000 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 464.8000 0.0000 0.0000 464.8000 0.0000 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 460.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 460.2000 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 457.4000 0.0000 457.4000 0.0000 0.0000 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 455.0000 0.0000 455.0000 0.0000 0.0000 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 451.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 451.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 450.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 450.8000 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 450.4000 0.0000 0.0000 450.4000 0.0000 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 445.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.8000 97 NURILA LASSI FIN 445.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.0000 I'm hoping panel 4 was tough, Andrew had the highest score from that panel. Oh yeah, GO TEAM !!!!!!!! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From trexlesh at msn.com Sun Aug 23 12:51:51 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:51:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You're gonna make my head hurt! lol Rex From: jnhiller at earthlink.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 11:37:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Hi Rex, that caught my eye right away, in-flight thrust adjustment. Mount the motor on a flexible rubber sheet donut shaped disk and move the rear of the motor with two servos (V&H axis), mixing as needed. Maybe clamp onto the front housing behind the drive washer. Might have to run a 4+" spinner. Since I'm in the middle of designing a new airframe anyway I will ruff out a drawing and bring it to Creswell. When I get the header for the 1.60 I was going to breadboard the power system for a backyard run-up to get an idea what the tune length would need to be. Maybe I could check out some thrust vectoring ideas with the same set-up. Might not happen until I get back from the Scale Masters though. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:07 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Here's a link to Chad's blog. He talked to Bernd Bernshorner about his motor offset... there's a short blurb about it.... http://www.chadnortheast.ca/ Rex Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:00:19 -0400 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org From: chuenkan at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Yes, (del aleman = of the some country I think, maybe German[y]) Gunther Ulsamer has a carbon fiber strip to reduce turbulence, and something about laminar flow. Yes, definitely thrust-vectoring on the Plettenberg motor -- looks like there are 7 positions or steps to the vectoring. I'd bet that really helps in a cross-wind!!! Also, I didn't notice the deflectors at the bottom of the fuse -- I guess that will counter any roll-coupling effect from the top ones. I'd love to see an assessment of what they do and how well... All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ At 11:30 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: There were deflectors at the bottom of the rudder too. Looks he is using vector thrusting on the motor too. Something in there too about a tubulator on the wing or stab.... me Portuguese ezz no very goot either. Wayne Galligan From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:45 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder My Portugese is not good at all, but I believe the message says it is Austrian Mayr Gehards, and something about an innovative (????something) small deflector on the upper part of the vertical stabilizer...Anyone have any idea what they are supposed to do -- what's the benefit, other than increased tail-feather drag??? Does it direct more airflow over the Rudder at the top? Seems to me that they might add more roll-coupling, what with the increased effect at the TOP of the rudder... At 09:38 AM 8/23/2009, you wrote: Check out the rudder on the plane part way down this page,,,,, Gehards from the WC I beleive..... http://www.acro3d.com/public/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4597&start=105 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Sun Aug 23 12:59:06 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:59:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores In-Reply-To: <641036.47839.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <641036.47839.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9A70400@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Bob, Thanks for posting these scores. We are all having a lot of fun here and flying well. Jason, QQ, Brett, and myself are all on different lines. So until all 4 days come together we will not know how the scores go. Well off to bed, practice in the AM and my flight is around 4 PM. Andrew ________________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane [getterflash at yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:36 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores I pulled this data off the Worlds website http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/index.php Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 510.0000 0.0000 510.0000 0.0000 0.0000 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 505.2000 0.0000 505.2000 0.0000 0.0000 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 503.2000 0.0000 503.2000 0.0000 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 489.6000 0.0000 489.6000 0.0000 0.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 484.8000 484.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 479.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 479.8000 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 473.8000 0.0000 0.0000 473.8000 0.0000 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 471.6000 0.0000 471.6000 0.0000 0.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 471.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 471.2000 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 467.6000 0.0000 0.0000 467.6000 0.0000 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 467.0000 0.0000 467.0000 0.0000 0.0000 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 464.8000 0.0000 0.0000 464.8000 0.0000 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 460.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 460.2000 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 457.4000 0.0000 457.4000 0.0000 0.0000 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 455.0000 0.0000 455.0000 0.0000 0.0000 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 451.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 451.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 450.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 450.8000 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 450.4000 0.0000 0.0000 450.4000 0.0000 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 445.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.8000 97 NURILA LASSI FIN 445.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.0000 I'm hoping panel 4 was tough, Andrew had the highest score from that panel. Oh yeah, GO TEAM !!!!!!!! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From vicenterc at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 12:59:12 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 20:59:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores In-Reply-To: <762285231.2647941251061080921.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1952186587.2648051251061151066.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I understand that these are raw scores.? Of course gives a good idea what is going on.? Are we going to have first rounds results today? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kane" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:36:10 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores I pulled this data off the Worlds website http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/index.php Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 510.0000 0.0000 510.0000 0.0000 0.0000 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 505.2000 0.0000 505.2000 0.0000 0.0000 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 503.2000 0.0000 503.2000 0.0000 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 489.6000 0.0000 489.6000 0.0000 0.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 484.8000 484.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 479.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 479.8000 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 473.8000 0.0000 0.0000 473.8000 0.0000 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 471.6000 0.0000 471.6000 0.0000 0.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 471.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 471.2000 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 467.6000 0.0000 0.0000 467.6000 0.0000 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 467.0000 0.0000 467.0000 0.0000 0.0000 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 464.8000 0.0000 0.0000 464.8000 0.0000 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 460.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 460.2000 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 457.4000 0.0000 457.4000 0.0000 0.0000 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 455.0000 0.0000 455.0000 0.0000 0.0000 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 451.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 451.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 450.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 450.8000 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 450.4000 0.0000 0.0000 450.4000 0.0000 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 445.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.8000 97 NURILA LASSI FIN 445.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.0000 I'm hoping panel 4 was tough, Andrew had the highest score from that panel. Oh yeah, GO TEAM !!!!!!!! ?Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ?? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com Sun Aug 23 13:02:29 2009 From: Andrew.Jesky at soaringsoftware.com (Andrew Jesky) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:02:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores In-Reply-To: <1952186587.2648051251061151066.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <762285231.2647941251061080921.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>, <1952186587.2648051251061151066.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9A70401@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> There really isnt any way to have these as first round results because we will have to fly 4 days in order for everyone to fly in front of all 4 groups of judges. ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone [vicenterc at comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:59 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores I understand that these are raw scores. Of course gives a good idea what is going on. Are we going to have first rounds results today? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kane" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:36:10 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores I pulled this data off the Worlds website http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/index.php Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 510.0000 0.0000 510.0000 0.0000 0.0000 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 505.2000 0.0000 505.2000 0.0000 0.0000 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 503.2000 0.0000 503.2000 0.0000 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 489.6000 0.0000 489.6000 0.0000 0.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 484.8000 484.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 479.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 479.8000 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 473.8000 0.0000 0.0000 473.8000 0.0000 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 471.6000 0.0000 471.6000 0.0000 0.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 471.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 471.2000 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 467.6000 0.0000 0.0000 467.6000 0.0000 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 467.0000 0.0000 467.0000 0.0000 0.0000 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 464.8000 0.0000 0.0000 464.8000 0.0000 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 460.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 460.2000 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 457.4000 0.0000 457.4000 0.0000 0.0000 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 455.0000 0.0000 455.0000 0.0000 0.0000 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 451.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 451.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 450.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 450.8000 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 450.4000 0.0000 0.0000 450.4000 0.0000 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 445.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.8000 97 NURILA LASSI FIN 445.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.0000 I'm hoping panel 4 was tough, Andrew had the highest score from that panel. Oh yeah, GO TEAM !!!!!!!! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 13:26:01 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:26:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores In-Reply-To: <6084008B82B59040B38447C69FF9903304D9A70401@SS2.SoaringSoftware.local> Message-ID: <15156409.2654591251062760698.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Thanks Andrew, We just getting impatient .? Keep flying well. Go USA Team..... Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Jesky " To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:51:52 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores There really isnt any way to have these as first round results because we will have to fly 4 days in order for everyone to fly in front of all 4 groups of judges. From: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org [ nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone [ vicenterc @comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 4:59 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores I understand that these are raw scores.? Of course gives a good idea what is going on.? Are we going to have first rounds results today? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kane" < getterflash @yahoo.com> To: nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:36:10 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds top 20 scores I pulled this data off the Worlds website http :// www . fpam .pt/WCF3A09/index. php Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 510.0000 0.0000 510.0000 0.0000 0.0000 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 505.2000 0.0000 505.2000 0.0000 0.0000 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 503.2000 0.0000 503.2000 0.0000 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 489.6000 0.0000 489.6000 0.0000 0.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 484.8000 484.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 479.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 479.8000 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 473.8000 0.0000 0.0000 473.8000 0.0000 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 471.6000 0.0000 471.6000 0.0000 0.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 471.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 471.2000 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 467.6000 0.0000 0.0000 467.6000 0.0000 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 467.0000 0.0000 467.0000 0.0000 0.0000 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 464.8000 0.0000 0.0000 464.8000 0.0000 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 460.2000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 460.2000 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 457.4000 0.0000 457.4000 0.0000 0.0000 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 455.0000 0.0000 455.0000 0.0000 0.0000 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 451.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 451.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 450.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 450.8000 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 450.4000 0.0000 0.0000 450.4000 0.0000 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 445.8000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.8000 97 NURILA LASSI FIN 445.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 445.0000 I'm hoping panel 4 was tough, Andrew had the highest score from that panel. Oh yeah, GO TEAM !!!!!!!! ?Bob Kane getterflash @yahoo.com ?? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgghome at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 13:40:25 2009 From: jgghome at comcast.net (John Gayer) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:40:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <54f1efb30908221256y1ba3d16dk43e574788fefbd5e@mail.gmail.com> References: <317428.96713.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <266441.19393.qm@web65106.mail.ac2.yahoo.com> <4e90a9260908210656g6a8eaf77g2b5b556d668f596a@mail.gmail.com> <54f1efb30908221256y1ba3d16dk43e574788fefbd5e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A91B743.8050808@comcast.net> Buy used. Only way to get 100% American content. Daniel McLalin wrote: > Please buy Ford, GM or Chrysler. > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 10:19 AM, John Konneker > wrote: > > I want to thank everyone for all the suggestions and > recommendations. Even though the response for the > Chrysler/Dodge minivans was overwhelming I'm afraid I won't be > considering one. They have stopped making the > AWD version and living in Iowa during the winter makes AWD or 4WD > just about mandatory. Each winter there has > been somewhere we just HAD to get to and without the 4WD on the > Expedition we wouldn't have made it. > So... > Looks like either a Toyota Sienna or Ford Flex. Between model > years like we are inventories are pretty low. > Thanks to the Internet I was able to cast a pretty broad net so > should be hearing from dealers as the 2010's > come in. > Thanks everyone! > JLK > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: astropuppy at gmail.com > Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 07:56:55 -0600 > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle > > > Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating carry 2 adults, > 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane? In other words can it be > used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > -- > Regards, > Daniel McLalin > ____________________ > www.firehow.com > www.premierbowlers.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 13:48:08 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 21:48:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle In-Reply-To: <1B7CF8913DBF4860B9027D84C18B2D89@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <1909577439.2659851251064088042.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I also would like to find one like this in the US. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Glaze" < billglaze @ bellsouth .net> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:35:22 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Some time back, there used to be a trailer specially manufactured (in this country) for models, in particular for pattern models.? Had two top openings, (the top of the trailer was kind of rounded) and these 2 doors opened up, somewhat like a butterfly Porsche.? Anybody know whatever happened to the company, (or does anybody even remember the trailer? Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: John Ferrell To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Found this on the web site about the FAT RUDDER: http :// www . depablos .net/REMOLQUES-RP. pdf Itty-biddy trailers may get very popular... John Ferrell? W8CCW ? "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel McLalin To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] New Vehicle Now you're talking about moving up to a Dodge Sprinter Diesel. On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:56 AM, astropuppy < astropuppy @ gmail .com > wrote: Can the Town and Country with stow and go seating?carry 2 adults, 2 kids, a small dog and a 2m airplane?? In other words can it be used to haul the family circus plus an airplane or two? _ ____________________ _ ____________________ _____ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -- Regards, Daniel McLalin ____________________ www . firehow .com www . premierbowlers .com _ ____________________ _ ____________________ _____ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _ ____________________ _ ____________________ _____ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _ ____________________ _ ____________________ _____ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 23 16:35:20 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:35:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <137326.57569.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <137326.57569.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bob, I am glad that you have come to the "Dark Side". I am a long time JR guy that made the switch after losing my electric Integral on 72mhz Synthesized JR9303 at the Columbus contest (may my sweet sweet E-Integral rest in peace). I bought the Airtronics SD10G and have been using it in my E-Black Magic with no problems whatsoever (knock wood). So far it has been extremely solid and reliable. I am sure that Mark Atwood regrets my decision to switch as I have gotten in the bad habit of using him as my "living manual", since the switch I have found myself calling him for step by step programming instructions BEFORE even looking for it in the manual. To his credit he has been very good about it but I am letting everyone know that I am weening myself from that practice. My only very minor issues with the ATX is the trim tab layout and the digital throttle trim (I prefer mechanical but understand why they made it digital). By there being six trim tabs they are not centered and it has taken me a minute to get used to finding them without looking down. Overall I am very happy with the value that the Airtronics SD10 provides. Anthony ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:08:02 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS At the NATS this year I decided it was time to make the move to 2.4G SS. Upon my return I ordered the new Airtronics SD-10G. My original plan was to use it in my as yet to be assembled Integral, but I bought an additional 7 channel receiver to convert my Temptation. I was flying the Temptation with a Stylus TX, and it was equipped with Airtronics servos with old-style connectors. I ordered some JR plug ends from Servos and Stuff, and replaced the Airtronics end with the JR plugs. You can remove the internal pins by gently pressing the small metal locking tab and removing the pin, then push it in the new connector, careful to put the +, -, and signal wires in the correct orientation. The whole operation took about an hour to change the six ends, install the new receiver , and orient the antenna wires per the intructions. I configured the servo travel, dual rates, and expo to the same values as my Stylus as a starting point. I had to mechanicaly re-center the elevator, it had a visible amount of "down" with the new radio set at 0 center. Although the Stylus showed the elevator was centered, there was some signiciant down trim on that surface. It probably was that way from the begining, I had copied another plane as the starting point way back when and did not realize the down trim was there. I did a range check using the SD-10G's low power mode, then was ready for the moment of truth. The plane required the slightest elevator trim to fly level. I had the initial rates set a little too aggresive for me, so I did some more tuning and now it "feels" just like it did with the Stylus. Those of you contemplating the switch should look at the new SD-10G, probably the best value radio out there right now. A ton of programming features and enough 3 position switches to keep anybody happy. I really like the throttle cut momentary button. There new style Airtronics "Z" connectors are compatable with JR and Hitec (not sure about Futaba). Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Sun Aug 23 18:46:25 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? ? Bob R. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sun Aug 23 19:01:00 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:01:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Yup!! There are currently 4 rx's for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I'll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it's supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I've been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Sun Aug 23 19:47:30 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:47:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <137326.57569.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <789444.7745.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I did like the way the trims worked on the Stylus, but the throttle cut push button on the SD-10G is a great feature. Land, push and hold the button and the motor stops, more reliable than the down trim on the Stylus. I'm sure I could have programmed a switch to do the same thing, but this is just cool. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Anthony Abdullah To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:35:16 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Bob, I am glad that you have come to the "Dark Side". I am a long time JR guy that made the switch after losing my electric Integral on 72mhz Synthesized JR9303 at the Columbus contest (may my sweet sweet E-Integral rest in peace). I bought the Airtronics SD10G and have been using it in my E-Black Magic with no problems whatsoever (knock wood). So far it has been extremely solid and reliable. I am sure that Mark Atwood regrets my decision to switch as I have gotten in the bad habit of using him as my "living manual", since the switch I have found myself calling him for step by step programming instructions BEFORE even looking for it in the manual. To his credit he has been very good about it but I am letting everyone know that I am weening myself from that practice. My only very minor issues with the ATX is the trim tab layout and the digital throttle trim (I prefer mechanical but understand why they made it digital). By there being six trim tabs they are not centered and it has taken me a minute to get used to finding them without looking down. Overall I am very happy with the value that the Airtronics SD10 provides. Anthony ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:08:02 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS At the NATS this year I decided it was time to make the move to 2.4G SS. Upon my return I ordered the new Airtronics SD-10G. My original plan was to use it in my as yet to be assembled Integral, but I bought an additional 7 channel receiver to convert my Temptation. I was flying the Temptation with a Stylus TX, and it was equipped with Airtronics servos with old-style connectors. I ordered some JR plug ends from Servos and Stuff, and replaced the Airtronics end with the JR plugs. You can remove the internal pins by gently pressing the small metal locking tab and removing the pin, then push it in the new connector, careful to put the +, -, and signal wires in the correct orientation. The whole operation took about an hour to change the six ends, install the new receiver , and orient the antenna wires per the intructions. I configured the servo travel, dual rates, and expo to the same values as my Stylus as a starting point. I had to mechanicaly re-center the elevator, it had a visible amount of "down" with the new radio set at 0 center. Although the Stylus showed the elevator was centered, there was some signiciant down trim on that surface. It probably was that way from the begining, I had copied another plane as the starting point way back when and did not realize the down trim was there. I did a range check using the SD-10G's low power mode, then was ready for the moment of truth. The plane required the slightest elevator trim to fly level. I had the initial rates set a little too aggresive for me, so I did some more tuning and now it "feels" just like it did with the Stylus. Those of you contemplating the switch should look at the new SD-10G, probably the best value radio out there right now. A ton of programming features and enough 3 position switches to keep anybody happy. I really like the throttle cut momentary button. There new style Airtronics "Z" connectors are compatable with JR and Hitec (not sure about Futaba). Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Sun Aug 23 20:07:41 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:07:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <46658.92012.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Competition breeds experimentation. ? Think back when Hanno Prettner showed up with an anhedral stab. Pretty soon most of the designs had it. I remember hearing people say that pattern planes would only fly well with anhedral stabs. ? Retracts. I made the comment at the '95 Nats that it no longer made sense to have retracts on pattern planes. One fellow NSRCA board member told me in no uncertain terms that fixed gear would completely screw up the "force arrangement" of a pattern plane. Looks like one of us was right. ? Airbrakes (another Hanno Prettner experiment). Next year, lots of planes had airbrakes. ? Variable CG. In-flight variable pitch props. In-flight mixture controls. Slow-roll buttons. Variable sweep wings. Winglets on the top of a fuselage. Side force generators (yes, tried many years ago in pattern - long before 3D ever existed). ? IMHO, simplicity wins most of the time. ? Bob R. --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Phil Spelt wrote: All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Sun Aug 23 20:53:18 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:53:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> Message-ID: <006601ca2476$c9b0d2b0$9501a8c0@GW7422> Been there done that. But only once... so far... John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Sun Aug 23 20:58:21 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:58:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder References: <46658.92012.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001201ca2477$8a9acf30$0200a8c0@kencopepere> The only issue as I see it, and all that know me are 100% sure I'm certainly no expert, is that "gadgets" fix certain issues...no doubt about that...the big thing is that the gadgets don't cause an issue with the rest of the flight envelope...I love all the new things builders and designers are coming up with, it really keeps things interesting...I can't wait to hear about all the new stuff that comes from the worlds!!! Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Richards To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Competition breeds experimentation. Think back when Hanno Prettner showed up with an anhedral stab. Pretty soon most of the designs had it. I remember hearing people say that pattern planes would only fly well with anhedral stabs. Retracts. I made the comment at the '95 Nats that it no longer made sense to have retracts on pattern planes. One fellow NSRCA board member told me in no uncertain terms that fixed gear would completely screw up the "force arrangement" of a pattern plane. Looks like one of us was right. Airbrakes (another Hanno Prettner experiment). Next year, lots of planes had airbrakes. Variable CG. In-flight variable pitch props. In-flight mixture controls. Slow-roll buttons. Variable sweep wings. Winglets on the top of a fuselage. Side force generators (yes, tried many years ago in pattern - long before 3D ever existed). IMHO, simplicity wins most of the time. Bob R. --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Phil Spelt wrote: All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tkeithblack at gmail.com Sun Aug 23 22:05:27 2009 From: tkeithblack at gmail.com (Keith Black) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:05:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> Message-ID: <77f26e410908232305o13fd4fbej503ac5eadeda9851@mail.gmail.com> The other common mistake people make and loose airplanes is to not put the wing bolts in. I have always had some type of rule to try to help me avoid that. My current rule is that I'm not allowed to connect my ailerons until the wing bolts are in. Since I always check that all surfaces work correctly before each take-off if hopefully I'll catch it if I do forget. When routines are broken and things go wrong it's usually due to the pilot being interrupeted when putting together the plane, or when in a hurry. Keith On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 6:47 PM, Budd Engineering wrote: > I've made performing a control surface "polarity check" part of my > preflight checklist for the last 20 years or so. I haven't caught anything > yet, but I've seen enough over the last couple of decades to know that it'll > payoff some day. Besides, it only takes about 10 seconds to do it (I do it > every flight, not just the first flight of the day). > > Jerry > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 2:50 PM, Ronald Van Putte wrote: > > My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections > if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua > asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved > my airplane twice already. > Ron VP > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > > Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They > were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a > routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches > from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to > high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. > > Jim Quinn > > ------------------------------ > *From:* "Atwood, Mark" > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > Hey All, > > > Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I > altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt > starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx > while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it > sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that > the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward > startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved > the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into > the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two > pieces. > > > I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment > was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such > catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that > type of abrupt side load. > > > Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 > times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not > my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. > Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. > > > Mark > > PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of > damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for > sure. > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 23 22:05:32 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:05:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <46658.92012.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> <46658.92012.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090824060532.4DC1011645@bridi.netexpress.com> Bob, that's exactly what I was thinking concerning the variable thrust device -- just several more things to malfunction at a critical moment. But then, with R/C aerobatics, every airborne moment is critical!! At 10:20 PM 8/23/2009, Bob Richards wrote: >Competition breeds experimentation. > >IMHO, simplicity wins most of the time. > >Bob R. > > >--- On Sun, 8/23/09, Phil Spelt wrote: > >All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Sun Aug 23 23:46:18 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 07:46:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> Mark, RX60 is 6 grams with case. 4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700. It will go in a small pattern plane. RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303. 7.2V TX pack is good. Hope TX trim parts will be available soon. A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Yup!! There are currently 4 rx's for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I'll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it's supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I've been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Aug 24 02:52:29 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 10:52:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <119847.84953.qm@web1112.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Great. However, Airtronics needs to update their website with this information. Under "Receivers" page they only have the 8ch listed, but do mention the 10ch rx on the SD-10G page. Tower does not list the 7ch or 6ch that I could find. ? Bob R. --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 11:53 PM Yup!!? There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system.? The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) ? I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight.? I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. ? The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms.? All are very small and compact.? I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available.? Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. ? -Mark ? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS ? I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? ? Bob R. ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Aug 24 03:18:58 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:18:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <001201ca2477$8a9acf30$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <324710.87019.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Some issues are real, others may be imagined, still others are incorrectly diagnosed. ? Back in the day of ballistic pattern, retracts were a good solution to a real problem. (Not really a "problem", but a limitation - DRAG).? The moment turnaround pattern started, drag was no longer a problem but was actually a good thing. Took some people a really long time to figure that out, and then to properly apply it. ? Regarding the variable thrust angle, it is possible to design a plane that needs no right thrust. (Does anyone remember the EU-1A? It actually needed a slight amount of left thrust!)? For many years, the common explanation for right thrust was torque, and many people still believe that. This is a case of misdiagnosis. If it is properly diagnosed, a real fix is much more likely to happen, but doing so with variable thrust is not, IMHO, the best way to fix it. It can be fixed aerodynamically, but then you run into the "but it doesn't look cool" syndrome. ? I sometimes wonder if some of the gadgets we see on some planes are really just a form of psychological warfare. :-) ? Bob R. --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Ken Thompson wrote: The only issue as I see it, and all that know me are 100% sure I'm certainly no expert, is that "gadgets" fix certain issues...no doubt about that...the big thing is that the gadgets don't cause an issue with the rest of the flight envelope...? Ken ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 03:51:10 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 11:51:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <324710.87019.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <001201ca2477$8a9acf30$0200a8c0@kencopepere> <324710.87019.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090824115108.4F957115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Bob, I would really appreciate a write-up on what causes the need for right thrust (spiraling air stream from the prop hitting the rudder??), and what to do to correct it. What was about the EU-1A that fixed it? Many thanks, At 07:18 AM 8/24/2009, you wrote: >For many years, the common explanation for right thrust was torque, >and many people still believe that. This is a case of misdiagnosis. >If it is properly diagnosed, a real fix is much more likely to >happen, but doing so with variable thrust is not, IMHO, the best way >to fix it. It can be fixed aerodynamically, but then you run into >the "but it doesn't look cool" syndrome. -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgalligan at att.net Mon Aug 24 04:07:26 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:07:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <20090824115108.4F957115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <001201ca2477$8a9acf30$0200a8c0@kencopepere><324710.87019.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <20090824115108.4F957115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <6EB389402B2740B9AD02F02836E146A9@WaynePC> Ask Nat Penton - a.k.a. Voodoo Express.... I believe his design address's these issues very well. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Bob, I would really appreciate a write-up on what causes the need for right thrust (spiraling air stream from the prop hitting the rudder??), and what to do to correct it. What was about the EU-1A that fixed it? Many thanks, At 07:18 AM 8/24/2009, you wrote: For many years, the common explanation for right thrust was torque, and many people still believe that. This is a case of misdiagnosis. If it is properly diagnosed, a real fix is much more likely to happen, but doing so with variable thrust is not, IMHO, the best way to fix it. It can be fixed aerodynamically, but then you run into the "but it doesn't look cool" syndrome. --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From anthonyr105 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 04:59:22 2009 From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com (Anthony Romano) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:59:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> Message-ID: Hi guys, I got my SD-10 about a week before the Nats and I am really starting to like it. Switch to the heavy springs as soon as you open the box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The resistance on the throttle is seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the box. Spend the ten minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you will be happy you did. If you fly fingers the trims will feel very intuitive. The are right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten used to centered trims after so many years. For me snap timing and 8 - points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially for E power. I set the throttle cut on switch 15 right over the left stick. The great safety thing is no matter what you do with the throttle stick the motor will not turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller handling my plane knowing that I can't accidentally bump the throttle and have a problem. Then switch 14 is the idle up set to a negative offset. This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle response. Switch 13 is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your idle with no brake. This is for most fly and makes it easier for me to land without slowing down too quickly. I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart that comes with is a peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip to trickle mode. Because of this Global has been recomending the first five charges be for 24 hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight time. PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! Anthony Romano Team Airtronics From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Mark, RX60 is 6 grams with case. 4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700. It will go in a small pattern plane. RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303. 7.2V TX pack is good. Hope TX trim parts will be available soon. A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Yup!! There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 05:04:29 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:04:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <001201ca2477$8a9acf30$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <787608.71980.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One designer and builder that pushes the envelope is Mark Hunt. Take a look at his stuff and you will see true innovation and creativity. I too love when guys are trying new things to refine an already refined airframe. Mike --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Ken Thompson wrote: > From: Ken Thompson > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > > > > > The only issue as I see it, and all that know me are > 100% sure I'm > certainly no expert, is that "gadgets" fix > certain issues...no doubt about > that...the big thing is that the gadgets don't cause an > issue with the rest of > the flight envelope...I love all the new things builders > and designers are > coming up with, it really keeps things interesting...I > can't wait to hear about > all the new stuff that comes from the worlds!!! > ? > Ken > > ----- Original Message > ----- > From: > Bob Richards > > To: General > pattern discussion > > Sent: Sunday, August > 23, 2009 9:20 > PM > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] FAT > Rudder > > > > > > > Competition breeds experimentation. > ? > Think back when Hanno Prettner showed up with > an anhedral stab. > Pretty soon most of the designs had it. I remember > hearing people say > that pattern planes would only fly well with > anhedral stabs. > ? > Retracts. I made the comment at the '95 > Nats that it no longer made > sense to have retracts on pattern planes. One > fellow NSRCA board member > told me in no uncertain terms that fixed gear would > completely screw up > the "force arrangement" of a pattern > plane. Looks like one of us was > right. > ? > Airbrakes (another Hanno Prettner experiment). > Next year, lots of > planes had airbrakes. > ? > Variable CG. In-flight variable pitch props. > In-flight mixture > controls. Slow-roll buttons. Variable sweep wings. > Winglets on the top > of a fuselage. Side force generators (yes, tried > many years ago in > pattern - long before 3D ever existed). > ? > IMHO, simplicity wins most of the time. > ? > Bob R. > > > --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Phil Spelt > wrote: > > > > All just > further proof that > aerobatics competition breeds innovation! > :-$ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion > mailing > list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From anthonyr105 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 05:05:41 2009 From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com (Anthony Romano) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:05:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> Message-ID: Almost forgot. The voltage of a 6 cell nicad and a 2 cell lipo is very similar but I will have to double check the exact number. Anthony Romano Team Airtronics From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:59:12 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Hi guys, I got my SD-10 about a week before the Nats and I am really starting to like it. Switch to the heavy springs as soon as you open the box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The resistance on the throttle is seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the box. Spend the ten minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you will be happy you did. If you fly fingers the trims will feel very intuitive. The are right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten used to centered trims after so many years. For me snap timing and 8 - points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially for E power. I set the throttle cut on switch 15 right over the left stick. The great safety thing is no matter what you do with the throttle stick the motor will not turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller handling my plane knowing that I can't accidentally bump the throttle and have a problem. Then switch 14 is the idle up set to a negative offset. This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle response. Switch 13 is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your idle with no brake. This is for most fly and makes it easier for me to land without slowing down too quickly. I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart that comes with is a peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip to trickle mode. Because of this Global has been recomending the first five charges be for 24 hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight time. PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! Anthony Romano Team Airtronics From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Mark, RX60 is 6 grams with case. 4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700. It will go in a small pattern plane. RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303. 7.2V TX pack is good. Hope TX trim parts will be available soon. A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Yup!! There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 05:49:15 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:49:15 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS References: <119847.84953.qm@web1112.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <230F364645744293B6E8F7BDCE998E60@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Bob, Check out the Hobby People website: RX http://www.hobbypeople.net/prdcls/rxac01.asp TX http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751750.asp ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Richards To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Great. However, Airtronics needs to update their website with this information. Under "Receivers" page they only have the 8ch listed, but do mention the 10ch rx on the SD-10G page. Tower does not list the 7ch or 6ch that I could find. Bob R. --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 11:53 PM Yup!! There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 05:49:23 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:49:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS References: <119847.84953.qm@web1112.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5421E846EC264E88BDC91EE3578653F9@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> yep ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Richards To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 6:52 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Great. However, Airtronics needs to update their website with this information. Under "Receivers" page they only have the 8ch listed, but do mention the 10ch rx on the SD-10G page. Tower does not list the 7ch or 6ch that I could find. Bob R. --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 11:53 PM Yup!! There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frankjuliei at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 05:53:25 2009 From: frankjuliei at comcast.net (frank) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:53:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> Message-ID: <3EEBFB673B0340919793A9F11B70875C@FMILaptop> Gents: I'd like to find out more about the SD-10. Does it have conditions and how is it setup for dual elevators. I currently fly Futaba and like many of us, I use a combination of Futaba & JR servos and Futaba & JR servo extensions. Will the "universal Z" adapts at the RX ports to Futaba & JR ? Someone on RCU commented that the" digital trims felt loose in the case". Any comments on that one ? Thanks, Frank _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Romano Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:06 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Almost forgot. The voltage of a 6 cell nicad and a 2 cell lipo is very similar but I will have to double check the exact number. Anthony Romano Team Airtronics _____ From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:59:12 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Hi guys, I got my SD-10 about a week before the Nats and I am really starting to like it. Switch to the heavy springs as soon as you open the box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The resistance on the throttle is seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the box. Spend the ten minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you will be happy you did. If you fly fingers the trims will feel very intuitive. The are right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten used to centered trims after so many years. For me snap timing and 8 - points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially for E power. I set the throttle cut on switch 15 right over the left stick. The great safety thing is no matter what you do with the throttle stick the motor will not turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller handling my plane knowing that I can't accidentally bump the throttle and have a problem. Then switch 14 is the idle up set to a negative offset. This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle response. Switch 13 is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your idle with no brake. This is for most fly and makes it easier for me to land without slowing down too quickly. I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart that comes with is a peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip to trickle mode. Because of this Global has been recomending the first five charges be for 24 hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight time. PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! Anthony Romano Team Airtronics _____ From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Mark, RX60 is 6 grams with case. 4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700. It will go in a small pattern plane. RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303. 7.2V TX pack is good. Hope TX trim parts will be available soon. A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Yup!! There are currently 4 rx's for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I'll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it's supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I've been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 _____ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. _____ HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. _____ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing T now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 06:02:05 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:02:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring Message-ID: <189943.32671.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I understand it will take 4 days for all the pilots to make an appearance in front of the 4 judging panels at the World competition. Once that happens, do they drop a low score or keep all the scores? I would think it is only fair to count all the panels. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From DaveL322 at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 06:09:41 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:09:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <46658.92012.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <20090823160020.587E411622@bridi.netexpress.com> <46658.92012.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0C272B81C09E42CAB2E85DBE97C87092@davedesktop> Years ago, Dad and I were 1st and 2nd for the D1 Champ in Sportsman (1 step up from the entry level class at that time) flying 4 servo fixed trike gear pattern planes w/ side exhaust 60s and pipes mounted on the fuse sides above the wings. Very "crude" setups for the time. The next planes we built had retracts, not because retracts flew better (they never did, unless you went through the fuss of full gear doors), but because "they" said we'd never get taken seriously and scored fairly without "real" pattern planes. So far as strakes, fins, add-ons to an existing design, or developing design...certainly some of it just might be "it looks cool", or "look what I have". Or maybe it actually works, on some designs, with some setups, for some pilots. Formula 1 has huge budgets and most teams introduce new bodywork every season, yet without fail, nearly every car has aerodevices which multiply and morph during the season..with the $$$ and resources consumed, and the $$$ and prestige at stake, I doubt many (if any) of these devices are added without having some real benefit. Regards, Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:21 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Competition breeds experimentation. Think back when Hanno Prettner showed up with an anhedral stab. Pretty soon most of the designs had it. I remember hearing people say that pattern planes would only fly well with anhedral stabs. Retracts. I made the comment at the '95 Nats that it no longer made sense to have retracts on pattern planes. One fellow NSRCA board member told me in no uncertain terms that fixed gear would completely screw up the "force arrangement" of a pattern plane. Looks like one of us was right. Airbrakes (another Hanno Prettner experiment). Next year, lots of planes had airbrakes. Variable CG. In-flight variable pitch props. In-flight mixture controls. Slow-roll buttons. Variable sweep wings. Winglets on the top of a fuselage. Side force generators (yes, tried many years ago in pattern - long before 3D ever existed). IMHO, simplicity wins most of the time. Bob R. --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Phil Spelt wrote: All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Mon Aug 24 06:10:30 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:10:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring In-Reply-To: <189943.32671.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <189943.32671.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2CCBB397-EDE7-46CC-B3E7-EFB692D6C14F@swtexas.net> Each panel will get normalized and they will drop one of the 4 scores. Each panel is considered a round. They will keep the best 3 out of 4 rounds. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Bob Kane wrote: > I understand it will take 4 days for all the pilots to make an > appearance in front of the 4 judging panels at the World > competition. Once that happens, do they drop a low score or keep > all the scores? I would think it is only fair to count all the > panels. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 06:20:59 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:20:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <20090824115108.4F957115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <001201ca2477$8a9acf30$0200a8c0@kencopepere><324710.87019.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <20090824115108.4F957115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <6A302FA79B434CBEB4A40D6CE8F92874@davedesktop> The EU1 had a relatively short rudder and fin, with the addition of a fairly big ventral strake into the bottom of the rudder, so the asymmetry of the rudder was reduced (not as much side area aft of the CG above the thrust line), reducing the need for right thrust. The EU1 also had minimal side area below the thrustline ahead of the CG (also minimizing the need for right thrust) as the bottom of the plane was pretty close to the bottom of the spinner. The great big chins on so many of the modern designs exacerbate the need for right thrust. The need for right thrust is reduced on some of the modern electric designs as the chin is substantially reduced - Beryll, Azurit, Bravo, for example. Regards, Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 7:51 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Bob, I would really appreciate a write-up on what causes the need for right thrust (spiraling air stream from the prop hitting the rudder??), and what to do to correct it. What was about the EU-1A that fixed it? Many thanks, At 07:18 AM 8/24/2009, you wrote: For many years, the common explanation for right thrust was torque, and many people still believe that. This is a case of misdiagnosis. If it is properly diagnosed, a real fix is much more likely to happen, but doing so with variable thrust is not, IMHO, the best way to fix it. It can be fixed aerodynamically, but then you run into the "but it doesn't look cool" syndrome. --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 06:27:36 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:27:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring In-Reply-To: <2CCBB397-EDE7-46CC-B3E7-EFB692D6C14F@swtexas.net> References: <189943.32671.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2CCBB397-EDE7-46CC-B3E7-EFB692D6C14F@swtexas.net> Message-ID: <699574.91767.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> So, after 4 days, all the scores in front of panel 1 will get normalized, same for 2, 3, and 4. Then, for each pilot, the lowest normalized score will get dropped, regardless of panel. I want to make sure I have, I'm creating a simple spreadsheet to track the scores copied from the website. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:10:30 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring Each panel will get normalized and they will drop one of the 4 scores. Each panel is considered a round. They will keep the best 3 out of 4 rounds. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Bob Kane wrote: > I understand it will take 4 days for all the pilots to make an appearance in front of the 4 judging panels at the World competition. Once that happens, do they drop a low score or keep all the scores? I would think it is only fair to count all the panels. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 06:27:57 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:27:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <006601ca2476$c9b0d2b0$9501a8c0@GW7422> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B7@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><378185.45067.qm@web83308.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <3C993EA1-94A2-4C2B-A697-124113B88025@cox.net> <006601ca2476$c9b0d2b0$9501a8c0@GW7422> Message-ID: There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this reminds me of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years ago--there was another article in FLYING by a guy who had landed gear up for the second time... So he changed it to: "There are three types of pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going to again..." I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and a nice Temptation more recently by not plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior to take-off. RS From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there done that. But only once... so far... John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Mon Aug 24 06:30:41 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:30:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring In-Reply-To: <699574.91767.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <189943.32671.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2CCBB397-EDE7-46CC-B3E7-EFB692D6C14F@swtexas.net> <699574.91767.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008701ca24c7$6e533880$4af9a980$@net> Exactly. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring So, after 4 days, all the scores in front of panel 1 will get normalized, same for 2, 3, and 4. Then, for each pilot, the lowest normalized score will get dropped, regardless of panel. I want to make sure I have, I'm creating a simple spreadsheet to track the scores copied from the website. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:10:30 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring Each panel will get normalized and they will drop one of the 4 scores. Each panel is considered a round. They will keep the best 3 out of 4 rounds. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Bob Kane wrote: > I understand it will take 4 days for all the pilots to make an appearance in front of the 4 judging panels at the World competition. Once that happens, do they drop a low score or keep all the scores? I would think it is only fair to count all the panels. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Mon Aug 24 06:35:57 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:35:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <18AA1F9E21B9464792392F4008C96401@jaysdesktop> Just "wiggling" doesn't do it. After changing servos, I "wiggled" and everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite direction and the ailerons were reversed! Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this reminds me of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years ago--there was another article in FLYING by a guy who had landed gear up for the second time... So he changed it to: "There are three types of pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going to again..." I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and a nice Temptation more recently by not plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior to take-off. RS _____ From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there done that. But only once... so far... John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn _____ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle.enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They're just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I've picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don't change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It'll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 24 07:02:30 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:02:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <18AA1F9E21B9464792392F4008C96401@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <485131.86347.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yeah but that only happens on the first (and last) flight of a new airplane. LOL Once you get the plane trimmed out it's probably OK to just wiggle the sticks and make sure everything moves. ? Here's another thing that can go wrong without being noticed: how many times have you plugged each aileron into the wrong channel? In other words the left aileron gets plugged into the channel that's programmed for the right aileron and vise versa. This doesn't reverse the direction but the trim gets messed up.?A trick that?I learned from Joe Lachowski was to use JR extensions on one servo and Rx channel and Futaba extensions on the other. It's pretty hard to plug the wrong servo in this way even if you're wiring is a chaotic mess. ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: From: Jay Marshall Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:35 AM Just ?wiggling? doesn?t do it. After changing servos, I ?wiggled? and everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite direction and the ailerons were reversed! ? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident ? There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this?reminds me of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years ago--there was another article in FLYING?by a guy who had landed gear up for the second time...? So he changed it to: "There are three types of pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going to again..."? I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and a nice Temptation more recently?by not plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior to take-off. RS ? From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there done that. But only once... so far... ? John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident ? My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. ?Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. ? Ron VP ? On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: ? Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. ? Jim Quinn ? ? From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, ? Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground.? ?Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me.? In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces.? ? I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane.? They?re just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. ? Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning.? I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached.? Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast.? Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. ? Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter.? Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up.? It?ll be a project for sure.? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Mon Aug 24 07:09:59 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:09:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <485131.86347.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBF2E4031F9D70-258-3255@WEBMAIL-MZ38.sysops.aol.com> I just put a small tiewrap on the both the right aileron receiver and servo leads. Match them up, and I'm good. I do this on every plane I have, so it is consistent. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 10:02 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Yeah but that only happens on the first (and last) flight of a new airplane. LOL Once you get the plane trimmed out it's probably OK to just wiggle the sticks and make sure everything moves. ? Here's another thing that can go wrong without being noticed: how many times have you plugged each aileron into the wrong channel? In other words the left aileron gets plugged into the channel that's programmed for the right aileron and vise versa. This doesn't reverse the direction but the trim gets messed up.?A trick that?I learned from Joe Lachowski was to use JR extensions on one servo and Rx channel and Futaba extensions on the other. It's pretty hard to plug the wrong servo in this way even if you're wiring is a chaotic mess. ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: From: Jay Marshall Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident To: "'Gen eral pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:35 AM Just ?wiggling? doesn?t do it. After changing servos, I ?wiggled? and everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite direction and the ailerons were reversed! ? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident ? There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this?reminds me of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years ago--there was another article in FLYING?by a guy who had landed gear up for the second time...? So he changed it to: "There are three types of pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going to again..."? I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and a nice Temptation more recently?by not plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior to take-off. RS ? ------------------------------------------------------------ From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there done that. But only once... so far... ? John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident ? My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. ?Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. ? Ron VP ? On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: ? Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane20spun around and struck his hand. ? Jim Quinn ? ? ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, ? Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground.? ?Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me.? In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces.? ? I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane.? They?re just=2 0not meant for that type of abrupt side load. ? Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning.? I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached.? Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast.? Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. ? Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter.? Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up.? It?ll be a project for sure.? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ------------------------------------------------------------ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrc a.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Mon Aug 24 07:14:24 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:14:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident References: <8CBF2E4031F9D70-258-3255@WEBMAIL-MZ38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <000001ca24cd$ade6cc40$0200a8c0@kencopepere> If I can find the servo leads in colors, I usually use red and green, both in the receiver and on the servo...green for right and red for left...makes for brain dead assembly at the field. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Lowe" To: ; Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >I just put a small tiewrap on the both the right aileron receiver and servo >leads. Match them up, and I'm good. I do this on every plane I have, so >it is consistent. > > > Jon Lowe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Pavlick > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 10:02 am > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah but that only happens on the first (and last) flight of a new > airplane. LOL Once you get the plane trimmed out it's probably OK to just > wiggle the sticks and make sure everything moves. > > > > > > Here's another thing that can go wrong without being noticed: how many > times have you plugged each aileron into the wrong channel? In other words > the left aileron gets plugged into the channel that's programmed for the > right aileron and vise versa. This doesn't reverse the direction but the > trim gets messed up. A trick that I learned from Joe Lachowski was to use > JR extensions on one servo and Rx channel and Futaba extensions on the > other. It's pretty hard to plug the wrong servo in this way even if you're > wiring is a chaotic mess. > > > > > > John Pavlick > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > > > > > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > To: "'Gen > eral pattern discussion'" > Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:35 AM > > > > > > > > > > Just ?wiggling? doesn?t do it. After changing servos, I ?wiggled? and > everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite > direction and the ailerons were reversed! > > > > > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard > Strickland > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > > There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this reminds me > of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and > those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years > ago--there was another article in FLYING by a guy who had landed gear up > for the second time... So he changed it to: "There are three types of > pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going > to again..." I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and > a nice Temptation more recently by not plugging in the ailerons and was > distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior > to take-off. > RS > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > From: jpavlick at idseng.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > Been there done that. But only once... so far... > > > > > > > > > > > > John Pavlick > http://www.idseng.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Ronald Van Putte > > > > > > To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > > > > > > My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections > if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua > asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's > saved my airplane twice already. > > > > > > > > > > > Ron VP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They > were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a > routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches > from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to > high, he grabbed the wing and the plane20spun around and struck his hand. > > > > > > Jim Quinn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid > accident > > > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > > > > > > Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I > altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my > shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the > Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had > it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such > that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward > startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap > moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the > wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage > into two pieces. > > > > > > > > > I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment > was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such > catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They?re just=2 > 0not meant for that type of abrupt side load. > > > > > > > > > > Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I?ve picked up my tx 1000 > times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not > my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. > Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of > damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It?ll be a project for > sure. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it > now. > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrc > a.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 24 07:15:32 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:15:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <8CBF2E4031F9D70-258-3255@WEBMAIL-MZ38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <985425.66858.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That works too but it adds weight. LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jon Lowe wrote: From: Jon Lowe Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident To: jpavlick at idseng.com, nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 11:09 AM I just put a small tiewrap on the both the right aileron receiver and servo leads.? Match them up, and I'm good.? I do this on every plane I have, so it is consistent. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 10:02 am Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Yeah but that only happens on the first (and last) flight of a new airplane. LOL Once you get the plane trimmed out it's probably OK to just wiggle the sticks and make sure everything moves. ? Here's another thing that can go wrong without being noticed: how many times have you plugged each aileron into the wrong channel? In other words the left aileron gets plugged into the channel that's programmed for the right aileron and vise versa. This doesn't reverse the direction but the trim gets messed up.?A trick that?I learned from Joe Lachowski was to use JR extensions on one servo and Rx channel and Futaba extensions on the other. It's pretty hard to plug the wrong servo in this way even if you're wiring is a chaotic mess. ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: From: Jay Marshall Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident To: "'Gen eral pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:35 AM Just ?wiggling? doesn?t do it. After changing servos, I ?wiggled? and everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite direction and the ailerons were reversed! ? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident ? There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this?reminds me of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years ago--there was another article in FLYING?by a guy who had landed gear up for the second time...? So he changed it to: "There are three types of pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going to again..."? I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and a nice Temptation more recently?by not plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior to take-off. RS ? ------------------------------------------------------------ From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there done that. But only once... so far... ? John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident ? My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. ?Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. ? Ron VP ? On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: ? Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane20spun around and struck his hand. ? Jim Quinn ? ? ------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, ? Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground.? ?Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle?enough to make the plane jump forward startling me.? In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces.? ? I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane.? They?re just=2 0not meant for that type of abrupt side load. ? Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning.? I?ve picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached.? Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast.? Be careful, be methodical, and don?t change your habits. ? Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter.? Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up.? It?ll be a project for sure.? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ------------------------------------------------------------ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrc a.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 07:38:55 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:38:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> Message-ID: Fully charged, a 2 cell LiPO is 8.4V, whereas a fully charged 6 cell NiCad is about 8.1V. The NiCad will fairly quickly drop to about an average of 1.25V per cell after a few minutes of use. From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 09:05:36 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Almost forgot. The voltage of a 6 cell nicad and a 2 cell lipo is very similar but I will have to double check the exact number. Anthony Romano Team Airtronics From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:59:12 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Hi guys, I got my SD-10 about a week before the Nats and I am really starting to like it. Switch to the heavy springs as soon as you open the box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The resistance on the throttle is seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the box. Spend the ten minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you will be happy you did. If you fly fingers the trims will feel very intuitive. The are right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten used to centered trims after so many years. For me snap timing and 8 - points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially for E power. I set the throttle cut on switch 15 right over the left stick. The great safety thing is no matter what you do with the throttle stick the motor will not turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller handling my plane knowing that I can't accidentally bump the throttle and have a problem. Then switch 14 is the idle up set to a negative offset. This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle response. Switch 13 is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your idle with no brake. This is for most fly and makes it easier for me to land without slowing down too quickly. I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart that comes with is a peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip to trickle mode. Because of this Global has been recomending the first five charges be for 24 hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight time. PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! Anthony Romano Team Airtronics From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Mark, RX60 is 6 grams with case. 4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700. It will go in a small pattern plane. RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303. 7.2V TX pack is good. Hope TX trim parts will be available soon. A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Yup!! There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing? now. _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 24 07:48:37 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:48:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <18AA1F9E21B9464792392F4008C96401@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: Been there! Done that! I now pay more attention. Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay Marshall Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 7:36 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Just "wiggling" doesn't do it. After changing servos, I "wiggled" and everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite direction and the ailerons were reversed! Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this reminds me of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years ago--there was another article in FLYING by a guy who had landed gear up for the second time... So he changed it to: "There are three types of pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going to again..." I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and a nice Temptation more recently by not plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior to take-off. RS _____ From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there done that. But only once... so far... John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn _____ From: "Atwood, Mark" < atwoodm at paragon-inc.com > To: General pattern discussion < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle.enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They're just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I've picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don't change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It'll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Aug 24 07:54:46 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:54:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <230F364645744293B6E8F7BDCE998E60@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> Message-ID: <47937.5154.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> THANKS!!! --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Pete Cosky wrote: ? Bob, ? Check out the Hobby People website: ? RX http://www.hobbypeople.net/prdcls/rxac01.asp ? TX http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/751750.asp ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 24 07:56:19 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:56:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <3EEBFB673B0340919793A9F11B70875C@FMILaptop> References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> <3EEBFB673B0340919793A9F11B70875C@FMILaptop> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73EB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> The SD10 supports dual ailerons, dual elevators easily. All the programming allows individual setups for each servo, and even the mixes can be set up differently between servos if desired. In glider mode it actually supports 6 servo wings... but that's not really relevant for our uses. The servo plugs are identical to the JR plugs. The wiring is the same for all servos on the market, so Hitec, JR, Dymond, whatever will plug right in. The Futaba's still use that small key on one side, so to use them in anything but a Futaba Rx requires you to shave the key off (which I'm guessing virtually all of us have done before). I can't really comment on the digital trim feel...I like them, and their positions, but I've been flying it for quite a while now so I'm used to it either way. For me it was my first real use of digital trims from mechanical, so I don't have anything to compare to. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of frank Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:53 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Gents: I'd like to find out more about the SD-10. Does it have conditions and how is it setup for dual elevators. I currently fly Futaba and like many of us, I use a combination of Futaba & JR servos and Futaba & JR servo extensions. Will the "universal Z" adapts at the RX ports to Futaba & JR ? Someone on RCU commented that the" digital trims felt loose in the case". Any comments on that one ? Thanks, Frank ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Romano Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:06 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Almost forgot. The voltage of a 6 cell nicad and a 2 cell lipo is very similar but I will have to double check the exact number. Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ________________________________ From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:59:12 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Hi guys, I got my SD-10 about a week before the Nats and I am really starting to like it. Switch to the heavy springs as soon as you open the box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The resistance on the throttle is seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the box. Spend the ten minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you will be happy you did. If you fly fingers the trims will feel very intuitive. The are right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten used to centered trims after so many years. For me snap timing and 8 - points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially for E power. I set the throttle cut on switch 15 right over the left stick. The great safety thing is no matter what you do with the throttle stick the motor will not turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller handling my plane knowing that I can't accidentally bump the throttle and have a problem. Then switch 14 is the idle up set to a negative offset. This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle response. Switch 13 is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your idle with no brake. This is for most fly and makes it easier for me to land without slowing down too quickly. I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart that comes with is a peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip to trickle mode. Because of this Global has been recomending the first five charges be for 24 hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight time. PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ________________________________ From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Mark, RX60 is 6 grams with case. 4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700. It will go in a small pattern plane. RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303. 7.2V TX pack is good. Hope TX trim parts will be available soon. A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? Ihncheol From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Yup!! There are currently 4 rx's for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I'll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it's supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I've been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. ________________________________ Hotmail(r) is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing(tm) now. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Mon Aug 24 07:57:46 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:57:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring In-Reply-To: <008701ca24c7$6e533880$4af9a980$@net> References: <189943.32671.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2CCBB397-EDE7-46CC-B3E7-EFB692D6C14F@swtexas.net> <699574.91767.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <008701ca24c7$6e533880$4af9a980$@net> Message-ID: <422759.40631.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Along with normalizing, do the high and low scores for each manuever get dropped? -mark ________________________________ From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:30:20 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring Exactly.? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring So, after 4 days, all the scores in front of panel 1 will get normalized, same for 2, 3, and 4.? Then, for each pilot, the lowest normalized score will get dropped, regardless of panel. I want to make sure I have, I'm creating a simple spreadsheet to track the scores copied from the website. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:10:30 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring Each panel will get normalized and they will drop one of the 4 scores. Each panel is considered a round. They will keep the best 3 out of 4 rounds. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Bob Kane wrote: > I understand it will take 4 days for all the pilots to make an appearance in front of the 4 judging panels at the World competition.? Once that happens, do they drop a low score or keep all the scores?? I would think it is only fair to count all the panels. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam?? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Mon Aug 24 08:00:10 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:00:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident References: <18AA1F9E21B9464792392F4008C96401@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <002601ca24d4$1dd95710$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Yep, done it...lost a profile that way, but was able to save my son's foamy. He said, "fly it Dad, it's all ready to go." Stupid me never checked the surfaces, was able to save it that time...I vowed to never take off again without checking direction of the surfaces...took me twice Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Marshall To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Just "wiggling" doesn't do it. After changing servos, I "wiggled" and everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite direction and the ailerons were reversed! Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this reminds me of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years ago--there was another article in FLYING by a guy who had landed gear up for the second time... So he changed it to: "There are three types of pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going to again..." I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and a nice Temptation more recently by not plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior to take-off. RS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there done that. But only once... so far... John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's saved my airplane twice already. Ron VP On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, he grabbed the wing and the plane spun around and struck his hand. Jim Quinn -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such that the strap bumped the throttle.enough to make the plane jump forward startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage into two pieces. I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They're just not meant for that type of abrupt side load. Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I've picked up my tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. Be careful, be methodical, and don't change your habits. Mark PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It'll be a project for sure. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 08:02:59 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:02:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring In-Reply-To: <422759.40631.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <189943.32671.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <2CCBB397-EDE7-46CC-B3E7-EFB692D6C14F@swtexas.net> <699574.91767.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <008701ca24c7$6e533880$4af9a980$@net> <422759.40631.qm@web80702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908240902x2a255752wc6921f767f0eb7a1@mail.gmail.com> No... with TBL all the scores are kept except if a judge is out of line with there scoring compared to the other judges/pilots. On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Mark Hunt wrote: > Along with normalizing, do the high and low scores for each manuever get > dropped? > > -mark > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Archie Stafford > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 9:30:20 AM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring > > Exactly. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:28 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring > > So, after 4 days, all the scores in front of panel 1 will get normalized, > same for 2, 3, and 4. Then, for each pilot, the lowest normalized score > will get dropped, regardless of panel. > > I want to make sure I have, I'm creating a simple spreadsheet to track the > scores copied from the website. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Archie Stafford > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:10:30 AM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Worlds scoring > > Each panel will get normalized and they will drop one of the 4 scores. Each > panel is considered a round. They will keep the best 3 out of 4 rounds. > > Arch > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Bob Kane wrote: > > > I understand it will take 4 days for all the pilots to make an appearance > in front of the 4 judging panels at the World competition. Once that > happens, do they drop a low score or keep all the scores? I would think it > is only fair to count all the panels. > > > > Bob Kane > > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Aug 24 08:09:12 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:09:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <0C272B81C09E42CAB2E85DBE97C87092@davedesktop> Message-ID: <290500.81095.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Dave, ? I can relate. Years back I won two Sportsman class 1st place trophies flying a 40 sized sport taildragger (Miss Martha). Flying against 60 sized trike retract planes. But, I had flown that design for years, so I knew it well. :-)? In fact, I had a better record flying non-pattern designs until I started flying a Hanson Runaround in '93, not because pattern planes did not fly well, but because that was the first pattern design that I seriously practiced with. ? You are right about the F1 cars, but I think their metrics are more well defined than ours. Drag and down force are the main parameters. Handling is very important, and is probably the closest parameter they have to compare to our situation, and is somewhat (mostly?)subjective. ? Bob R. --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Dave wrote: Years ago, Dad and I were 1st and 2nd for the D1 Champ in Sportsman (1 step up from the entry level class at that time) flying 4 servo fixed trike gear pattern planes w/ side exhaust 60s and pipes mounted on the fuse sides above the wings.? Very ?crude? setups for the time.? The next planes we built had retracts, not because retracts flew better (they never did, unless you went through the fuss of full gear doors), but because ?they? said we?d never get taken seriously and scored fairly without ?real? pattern planes. ? So far as strakes, fins, add-ons to an existing design, or developing design?..certainly some of it just might be ?it looks cool?, or ?look what I have?.? Or maybe it actually works, on some designs, with some setups, for some pilots. ?Formula 1 has huge budgets and most teams introduce new bodywork every season, yet without fail, nearly every car has aerodevices which multiply and morph during the season??with the $$$ and resources consumed, and the $$$ and prestige at stake, I doubt many (if any) of these devices are added without having some real benefit. ? Regards, ? Dave ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Aug 24 08:11:58 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:11:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <6A302FA79B434CBEB4A40D6CE8F92874@davedesktop> Message-ID: <2674.19039.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Exactly! I would also add that, along with the lack of side area below the engine and in front of the CG, it had a very large canopy right behind the engine so there was lots of side area above the thrustline and in front of the CG. --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Dave wrote: The EU1 had a relatively short rudder and fin, with the addition of a fairly big ventral strake into the bottom of the rudder, so the asymmetry of the rudder was reduced (not as much side area aft of the CG above the thrust line), reducing the need for right thrust. ?The EU1 also had minimal side area below the thrustline ahead of the CG (also minimizing the need for right thrust) as the bottom of the plane was pretty close to the bottom of the spinner. ?The great big chins on so many of the modern designs exacerbate the need for right thrust. ?The need for right thrust is reduced on some of the modern electric designs as the chin is substantially reduced ? Beryll, Azurit, Bravo, for example. ? Regards, ? Dave ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Mon Aug 24 08:18:01 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:18:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <985425.66858.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <636054.16816.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> And the right side is heavier than the left. ;-> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, John Pavlick wrote: That works too but it adds weight. LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jon Lowe wrote: I just put a small tiewrap on the both the right aileron receiver and servo leads.? Match them up, and I'm good.? I do this on every plane I have, so it is consistent. ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wgalligan at att.net Mon Aug 24 08:54:27 2009 From: wgalligan at att.net (Wayne Galligan) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:54:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <787608.71980.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <787608.71980.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <814759F3BE384127B1DA7F7E9D60AD4A@WaynePC> You would be surprised at how much of Marks design intervention was derived by Nats aero theories. Mark has incorporated it into a more current style of airplane... I just wish I had time to build one of Marks Pentathlon's. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: "Ken Thompson" ; "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder One designer and builder that pushes the envelope is Mark Hunt. Take a look at his stuff and you will see true innovation and creativity. I too love when guys are trying new things to refine an already refined airframe. Mike --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Ken Thompson wrote: > From: Ken Thompson > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 23, 2009, 11:58 PM > > > > > > > > The only issue as I see it, and all that know me are > 100% sure I'm > certainly no expert, is that "gadgets" fix > certain issues...no doubt about > that...the big thing is that the gadgets don't cause an > issue with the rest of > the flight envelope...I love all the new things builders > and designers are > coming up with, it really keeps things interesting...I > can't wait to hear about > all the new stuff that comes from the worlds!!! > > Ken > > ----- Original Message > ----- > From: > Bob Richards > > To: General > pattern discussion > > Sent: Sunday, August > 23, 2009 9:20 > PM > Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] FAT > Rudder > > > > > > > Competition breeds experimentation. > > Think back when Hanno Prettner showed up with > an anhedral stab. > Pretty soon most of the designs had it. I remember > hearing people say > that pattern planes would only fly well with > anhedral stabs. > > Retracts. I made the comment at the '95 > Nats that it no longer made > sense to have retracts on pattern planes. One > fellow NSRCA board member > told me in no uncertain terms that fixed gear would > completely screw up > the "force arrangement" of a pattern > plane. Looks like one of us was > right. > > Airbrakes (another Hanno Prettner experiment). > Next year, lots of > planes had airbrakes. > > Variable CG. In-flight variable pitch props. > In-flight mixture > controls. Slow-roll buttons. Variable sweep wings. > Winglets on the top > of a fuselage. Side force generators (yes, tried > many years ago in > pattern - long before 3D ever existed). > > IMHO, simplicity wins most of the time. > > Bob R. > > > --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Phil Spelt > wrote: > > > > All just > further proof that > aerobatics competition breeds innovation! > :-$ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion > mailing > list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Mon Aug 24 09:07:57 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:07:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <290500.81095.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: One other probably more important factor is 'Pilot-Equipment Compatibility'. The ability to complete every flight every day makes the competition experience more enjoyable. I didn't have the patience or will to climb the YS learning curve and returned to the simple low maintenance reliability of a 2-stroke. Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:09 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Dave, I can relate. Years back I won two Sportsman class 1st place trophies flying a 40 sized sport taildragger (Miss Martha). Flying against 60 sized trike retract planes. But, I had flown that design for years, so I knew it well. :-) In fact, I had a better record flying non-pattern designs until I started flying a Hanson Runaround in '93, not because pattern planes did not fly well, but because that was the first pattern design that I seriously practiced with. You are right about the F1 cars, but I think their metrics are more well defined than ours. Drag and down force are the main parameters. Handling is very important, and is probably the closest parameter they have to compare to our situation, and is somewhat (mostly?)subjective. Bob R. --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Dave wrote: Years ago, Dad and I were 1st and 2nd for the D1 Champ in Sportsman (1 step up from the entry level class at that time) flying 4 servo fixed trike gear pattern planes w/ side exhaust 60s and pipes mounted on the fuse sides above the wings. Very ?crude? setups for the time. The next planes we built had retracts, not because retracts flew better (they never did, unless you went through the fuss of full gear doors), but because ?they? said we?d never get taken seriously and scored fairly without ?real? pattern planes. So far as strakes, fins, add-ons to an existing design, or developing design?..certainly some of it just might be ?it looks cool?, or ?look what I have?. Or maybe it actually works, on some designs, with some setups, for some pilots. Formula 1 has huge budgets and most teams introduce new bodywork every season, yet without fail, nearly every car has aerodevices which multiply and morph during the season??with the $$$ and resources consumed, and the $$$ and prestige at stake, I doubt many (if any) of these devices are added without having some real benefit. Regards, Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaqfly at prodigy.net Mon Aug 24 09:08:05 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:08:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <3EEBFB673B0340919793A9F11B70875C@FMILaptop> References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> <3EEBFB673B0340919793A9F11B70875C@FMILaptop> Message-ID: <64399.84162.qm@web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Frank, I?have been a Futaba pilot for?10+ years. The change to the 10G was effortless. Programming is a snap. You will have to make Futaba servo connectors Zs by cutting off the tab. I mix Furaba and JR servos with ease. I cut my trim segments down to the minimum and getting an exact trim setting on either of my Black Magics is simple. "Loose in the case?" Not on my radio. Get one today you'll be happy! Jim Quinn ________________________________ From: frank To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:53:28 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Gents: ? I?d like to find out more about the SD-10. Does it have conditions and how is it setup for dual elevators. I currently fly Futaba and like many of us, I use a combination of Futaba & JR servos and Futaba & JR ?servo extensions. Will the ?universal Z? adapts at the RX ports to Futaba & JR ? Someone on RCU commented that the? digital trims felt loose in the case?. Any comments on that one ? Thanks, Frank ? ________________________________ From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Romano Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:06 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS ? Almost forgot. The?voltage of a?6 cell nicad and a?2 cell lipo is very similar but I will have to double check the exact number. ? Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ? ________________________________ From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:59:12 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Hi guys, ? I got my SD-10 about a?week before the Nats?and I am really starting to like it.?Switch to the heavy springs as soon as you open the box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The resistance on the throttle is seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the box. Spend the ten minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you will be happy you did. ??If you fly fingers the trims will feel very intuitive. The are right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten used to?centered trims after so many years. For me snap timing and?8 - points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. ?One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially for E power. I set the throttle cut on?switch 15 right over the left stick. The great safety thing is no matter what you do?with the throttle stick the motor will not turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller handling my plane?knowing that?I can't?accidentally bump the throttle and have a problem. Then?switch 14 is the idle up set to?a negative offset. This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle response. Switch?13 is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your idle?with no brake. This is for most fly and?makes it easier for me to land without slowing?down too quickly. ?I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart that comes with is a peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip to trickle mode. Because of this Global has been recomending the first five charges be for 24 hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight time. ? PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! ? Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ? ________________________________ From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Mark, ? RX60 is 6 grams with case. ?4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700.? It will go in a small pattern plane.? RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303.? 7.2V TX pack is good.? Hope TX trim parts will be available soon.? A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. ? Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? ? Ihncheol ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS ? Yup!!? There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system.? The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) ? I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight.? I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. ? The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms.? All are very small and compact.? I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available.? Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. ? -Mark ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS ? I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? ? Bob R. ? No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 ? ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. ________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing? now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 09:08:17 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:08:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73EB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com><898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <009e01ca248e$f36a0cd0$da3e2670$@net> <3EEBFB673B0340919793A9F11B70875C@FMILaptop> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73EB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <459114.83082.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> As for the trims, I went from years and years of using the analog style trim levers on the Stylus to the digital trims on the SD-10G. I had no problem finding and adjusting the trim for elevator without taking my eyes off the plane. The action was intuitive. The position is better as far as finding them without looking. The analog trims where centered on the stick, you had to reach around the stick to make an elevator adjustment (or use your other hand, or a friend). Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:49:07 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS The SD10 supports dual ailerons, dual elevators easily. All the programming allows individual setups for each servo, and even the mixes can be set up differently between servos if desired. In glider mode it actually supports 6 servo wings? but that?s not really relevant for our uses. The servo plugs are identical to the JR plugs. The wiring is the same for all servos on the market, so Hitec, JR, Dymond, whatever will plug right in. The Futaba?s still use that small key on one side, so to use them in anything but a Futaba Rx requires you to shave the key off (which I?m guessing virtually all of us have done before). I can?t really comment on the digital trim feel?I like them, and their positions, but I?ve been flying it for quite a while now so I?m used to it either way. For me it was my first real use of digital trims from mechanical, so I don?t have anything to compare to. -Mark From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of frank Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:53 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Gents: I?d like to find out more about the SD-10. Does it have conditions and how is it setup for dual elevators. I currently fly Futaba and like many of us, I use a combination of Futaba & JR servos and Futaba & JR servo extensions. Will the ?universal Z? adapts at the RX ports to Futaba & JR ? Someone on RCU commented that the? digital trims felt loose in the case?. Any comments on that one ? Thanks, Frank ________________________________ From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Romano Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:06 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Almost forgot. The voltage of a 6 cell nicad and a 2 cell lipo is very similar but I will have to double check the exact number. Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ________________________________ From: anthonyr105 at hotmail.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:59:12 -0400 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Hi guys, I got my SD-10 about a week before the Nats and I am really starting to like it. Switch to the heavy springs as soon as you open the box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The resistance on the throttle is seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the box. Spend the ten minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you will be happy you did. If you fly fingers the trims will feel very intuitive. The are right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten used to centered trims after so many years. For me snap timing and 8 - points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially for E power. I set the throttle cut on switch 15 right over the left stick. The great safety thing is no matter what you do with the throttle stick the motor will not turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller handling my plane knowing that I can't accidentally bump the throttle and have a problem. Then switch 14 is the idle up set to a negative offset. This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle response. Switch 13 is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your idle with no brake. This is for most fly and makes it easier for me to land without slowing down too quickly. I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart that comes with is a peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip to trickle mode. Because of this Global has been recomending the first five charges be for 24 hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight time. PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! Anthony Romano Team Airtronics ________________________________ From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Mark, RX60 is 6 grams with case. 4 grams without based on specifications. I just got my RX700. It will go in a small pattern plane. RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this winter. Inside the radio seem really simple compared to X9303. 7.2V TX pack is good. Hope TX trim parts will be available soon. A little hard to reach for the trim. Software downloaded from Airtronics website, and am waiting for USB adapter to become shippable at Global. Do you know if the TX has liPo cut off? Ihncheol From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS Yup!! There are currently 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 system. The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is limited in range (Park flyers) I should have a 6ch tomorrow, so I?ll send you a note offlist on the weight. I believe it?s supposed to be in the 5-6gm range. The 10ch is about 15gms, the 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, about 11gms. All are very small and compact. I?ve been using the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for the micro 6 to be available. Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, which is heavy, but workable. -Mark From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G SS I've been looking at the Airtronics 10ch radio. However, it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics website) that there are only two receivers that will work with it. All the smaller receivers appear to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any smaller receivers, like for foamie use? Bob R. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. ________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing? now. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Mon Aug 24 10:21:37 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:21:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question Message-ID: <40E8B10E577F43DAA14652BAD90371B0@Tony> I have a customer with a JR question that I can't find the answer to.. If you can help, please e-mail me.. How can we set up the trainer button to "kill" the engine as the button is depressed, and then return to normal throttle setting upon release of that button. The problem is, he has it set up on the GEAR switch now...but is either forgetting to flip the switch after the engine dies, or is accidentally hitting the switch and when he attempts to start for the next flight, is frustrated as to why the engine won't start, until it 'Dawns" on him what has happened. Needless to say, he gets the usual "hoss laugh" from the chastizers about him and his face gets red. We have found a way to program "butn" as the MASTER and "throttle" as the slave and activate it with the trainer button, however, it retains the "off" condition until the button is depressed again. (Other words, the button, even tho it is spring-return, acts like a switch".) Can you help with a suggestion as to how this might be accomplished? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 24 10:33:24 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:33:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73EB@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <306245.59452.qm@web83903.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> There is a zip file containing 9 of setup examples. dual ailerons on bipe (4 servos) with flaperon on lower wing. 2 position flapersons 3 position switched flaperons in flight mode throttle activated timer etc http://www.airtronics.net/airtronics_SD10G.asp Some of these are were really helpful for me. Ihncheol --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:49 AM > > > > > > > The SD10 supports dual > ailerons, dual elevators easily.? > All the programming allows individual setups for each > servo, and even the mixes > can be set up differently between servos if > desired.?? In glider mode > it actually supports 6 servo wings? but that?s > not really relevant > for our uses. > > ? > > The servo plugs are identical > to the JR plugs.? The wiring > is the same for all servos on the market, so Hitec, JR, > Dymond, whatever will > plug right in.? The Futaba?s still use that > small key on one side, > so to use them in anything but a Futaba Rx requires you to > shave the key off > (which I?m guessing virtually all of us have done > before).? > > ? > > I can?t really comment on > the digital trim feel?I > like them, and their positions, but I?ve been flying > it for quite a while > now so I?m used to it either way.? For me it was > my first real use > of digital trims from mechanical, so I don?t have > anything to compare to. > > ? > > -Mark > > ? > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of frank > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:53 AM > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich > to 2.4G SS > > > > > > ? > > Gents: > > ? > > I?d like to find out more > about the SD-10. Does it have > conditions and how is it setup for dual elevators. I > currently fly Futaba and > like many of us, I use a combination of Futaba & JR > servos and Futaba & > JR ?servo extensions. Will the ?universal > Z? adapts at the RX > ports to Futaba & JR ? Someone on RCU commented that > the? digital > trims felt loose in the case?. Any comments on that > one ? > > Thanks, > > Frank > > ? > > > > > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Anthony > Romano > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:06 AM > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich > to 2.4G SS > > > > ? > > Almost > forgot. The?voltage of a?6 cell nicad and > a?2 cell lipo is very > similar but I will have to double check the exact number. > > > > ? > > Anthony Romano > > Team Airtronics > > ? > > > > > > > > From: > anthonyr105 at hotmail.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 08:59:12 -0400 > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: Made the swtich to 2.4G SS > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > ? I got my SD-10 about a?week before the > Nats?and I am really > starting to like it.?Switch to the heavy springs as > soon as you open the > box. Even set lightly they have a great feel. The > resistance on the throttle is > seperate from the ratchet. Mine was very light out of the > box. Spend the ten > minutes with the back off the radio and customize it you > will be happy you did. > > > ??If you fly fingers the trims will feel very > intuitive. The are > right were your hand want to fall. We have all just gotten > used > to?centered trims after so many years. For me snap > timing and?8 - > points changed just much crisper than my Stylus. > > ?One really cool thing on the throttle cut especially > for E power. I set > the throttle cut on?switch 15 right over the left > stick. The great safety > thing is no matter what you do?with the throttle stick > the motor will not > turn. I feel much better plugging my packs in and my caller > handling my > plane?knowing that?I can't?accidentally > bump the throttle and > have a problem. Then?switch 14 is the idle up set > to?a negative offset. > This will engage the brake and allow normal throttle > response. Switch?13 > is normal flight and normal trim settings to set your > idle?with no brake. > This is for most fly and?makes it easier for me to > land without > slowing?down too quickly. > > ?I will have to RTFM myself. I thought the wall wart > that comes with is a > peak detection charger. The light will turn green and flip > to trickle mode. > Because of this Global has been recomending the first five > charges be for 24 > hours to properly break in the pack to give max flight > time. > > ? > > PS. Bob it may be time for a servo upgrade too! > > ? > > Anthony Romano > > Team Airtronics > > ? > > > > > > > > From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 02:46:10 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to 2.4G > SS > > > > Mark, > > ? > > RX60 is 6 grams with case. > ?4 grams without based on > specifications. > > I just got my RX700.? It > will go in a small pattern > plane.? RX60 will go on an indoor plane for this > winter. > > Inside the radio seem really > simple compared to X9303.? > 7.2V TX pack is good.? > > Hope TX trim parts will be > available soon.? A little hard > to reach for the trim. > > Software downloaded from > Airtronics website, and am waiting for > USB adapter to become shippable at Global. > > ? > > Do you know if the TX has liPo > cut off? > > ? > > Ihncheol > > ? > > > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Atwood, > Mark > > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 9:54 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to > 2.4G SS > > > > > > ? > > Yup!!? There are currently > 4 rx?s for the Atx 2.4 > system.? The 10ch, 8ch, 7ch, and a micro 6ch which is > limited in range > (Park flyers) > > ? > > I should have a 6ch tomorrow, > so I?ll send you a note > offlist on the weight.? I believe it?s supposed > to be in the 5-6gm > range. > > ? > > The 10ch is about 15gms, the > 8ch is the same, the 7ch is less, > about 11gms.? All are very small and compact.? > I?ve been using > the 8ch without a case for my foamies while I waited for > the micro 6 to be > available.? Without the case the 8ch is about 12gms, > which is heavy, but > workable. > > ? > > -Mark > > ? > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Bob > Richards > > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:46 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Made the swtich to > 2.4G SS > > > > ? > > > > > > I've been looking at the > Airtronics 10ch radio. However, > it appears (on Tower Hobbies and on the Airtronics > website) that there are > only two receivers that will work with it. All the > smaller receivers appear > to be for surface use. Is this true? Do they have any > smaller receivers, like > for foamie use? > > > ? > > > Bob R. > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > No > virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release > Date: 08/20/09 > 06:05:00 > > > > ? > > > > > > > > With > Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your > photos. Click > here. > > > > > > > > Hotmail? > is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try > it now. > > > > > > > > Get > back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. Try Bing? now. > > No virus > found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release > Date: 08/20/09 > 06:05:00 > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From frankjuliei at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 11:29:59 2009 From: frankjuliei at comcast.net (frank) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:29:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Message-ID: <58377100BDFE40638DA4A2CF26B5F539@FMILaptop> Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos can't keep up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can't help but wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. Thanks, Frank Imbriaco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 24 11:40:50 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:40:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder References: <46658.92012.qm@web1102.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5470AF38FEED4E5CAAFCB354A1C3BF32@glazecstp32xp> Putting it another way: Monkey see, monkey do. In the Boat Drag Racing business, (and car dragsters too) they had what was derisively called "The Trick of The Month Club." Folks who succumbed to this club's allure, spent a lot of money and then tried to make the latest trick work for them..Occasionally, it did work. Most usually, it was a case of try, try again to get where you were before trying this latest "Miracle Go Fast Gadget." Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Richards To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Competition breeds experimentation. Think back when Hanno Prettner showed up with an anhedral stab. Pretty soon most of the designs had it. I remember hearing people say that pattern planes would only fly well with anhedral stabs. Retracts. I made the comment at the '95 Nats that it no longer made sense to have retracts on pattern planes. One fellow NSRCA board member told me in no uncertain terms that fixed gear would completely screw up the "force arrangement" of a pattern plane. Looks like one of us was right. Airbrakes (another Hanno Prettner experiment). Next year, lots of planes had airbrakes. Variable CG. In-flight variable pitch props. In-flight mixture controls. Slow-roll buttons. Variable sweep wings. Winglets on the top of a fuselage. Side force generators (yes, tried many years ago in pattern - long before 3D ever existed). IMHO, simplicity wins most of the time. Bob R. --- On Sun, 8/23/09, Phil Spelt wrote: All just further proof that aerobatics competition breeds innovation! :-$ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 11:42:17 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:42:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Message-ID: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Mon Aug 24 11:49:26 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:49:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001ca24f4$06af4390$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Heck yeah! GO TEAM!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kane" To: Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for > beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which > should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and > Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. > > > Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total > 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 > 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 > 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 > 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 > 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 > 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 > 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 > 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 > 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 > 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 > > > GO Team ! ! ! ! ! > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Mon Aug 24 12:06:06 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:06:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <58377100BDFE40638DA4A2CF26B5F539@FMILaptop> Message-ID: Frank, you are getting your terms mixed up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of "steps" from one end of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as latency, is the time it takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the servo moves. Actually, it is the time until the servo receives the command to move. The two functions are not dependant upon each other. As far as keeping up, that depends on servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which instantly commands a function from low to high, for example. The time to get there, however, will depend on how fast the servo can move. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of frank Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:30 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos can't keep up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can't help but wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. Thanks, Frank Imbriaco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Mon Aug 24 12:09:44 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:09:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today.? Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team? ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smaragdz at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 24 12:10:42 2009 From: smaragdz at bellsouth.net (Ryan Smith) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:10:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <082420092010.3662.4A92F3C0000142D100000E4E22230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> Yes he did! -------------- Original message from Mark Hunt : -------------- >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iflyrc24 at gmail.com Mon Aug 24 12:11:29 2009 From: iflyrc24 at gmail.com (DoWayne Gould) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:11:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <000001ca24cd$ade6cc40$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <4a92f3ee.c5c2f10a.2b4c.7a97@mx.google.com> I take short 1/4" x 1" pieces of moneycote and make a colored band for the extensions. Several color choices and no weight. I always check surface movement and direction before each take off without fail. I used to do the wiggle test and then took off with one aileron not plugged in. I noticed it was very sluggish in roll and landed to find the problem. Dowayne -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ken Thompson Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:15 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident If I can find the servo leads in colors, I usually use red and green, both in the receiver and on the servo...green for right and red for left...makes for brain dead assembly at the field. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Lowe" To: ; Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:09 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident >I just put a small tiewrap on the both the right aileron receiver and servo >leads. Match them up, and I'm good. I do this on every plane I have, so >it is consistent. > > > Jon Lowe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Pavlick > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 10:02 am > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah but that only happens on the first (and last) flight of a new > airplane. LOL Once you get the plane trimmed out it's probably OK to just > wiggle the sticks and make sure everything moves. > > > > > > Here's another thing that can go wrong without being noticed: how many > times have you plugged each aileron into the wrong channel? In other words > the left aileron gets plugged into the channel that's programmed for the > right aileron and vise versa. This doesn't reverse the direction but the > trim gets messed up. A trick that I learned from Joe Lachowski was to use > JR extensions on one servo and Rx channel and Futaba extensions on the > other. It's pretty hard to plug the wrong servo in this way even if you're > wiring is a chaotic mess. > > > > > > John Pavlick > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > > > > > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > To: "'Gen > eral pattern discussion'" > Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 10:35 AM > > > > > > > > > > Just "wiggling" doesn't do it. After changing servos, I "wiggled" and > everything was fine .. until airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite > direction and the ailerons were reversed! > > > > > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard > Strickland > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:28 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > > There was an old saw about pilots who had landed gear up this reminds me > of: "There are two types of pilots--those that have landed gear up and > those that are going to.." And then a few--well actually many years > ago--there was another article in FLYING by a guy who had landed gear up > for the second time... So he changed it to: "There are three types of > pilots--those that have, those that are going to--and those that are going > to again..." I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back and > a nice Temptation more recently by not plugging in the ailerons and was > distracted both times during assembly--and not wiggling the surfaces prior > to take-off. > RS > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > From: jpavlick at idseng.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > Been there done that. But only once... so far... > > > > > > > > > > > > John Pavlick > http://www.idseng.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: Ronald Van Putte > > > > > > To: Jim Quinn ; General pattern discussion > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident > > > > > > > > > > My favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the aileron servo connections > if I am disturbed while assembling the airplane. Consequently, John Fuqua > asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before carrying the airplane out; it's > saved my airplane twice already. > > > > > > > > > > > Ron VP > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 22, 2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow! I saw these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really sorry. They > were/are beautiful trophy winners in Toledo. I agree with Don, make a > routine and stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently had 9 stitches > from a mini electric (smaller than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to > high, he grabbed the wing and the plane20spun around and struck his hand. > > > > > > Jim Quinn > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > From: "Atwood, Mark" > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid > accident > > > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > > > > > > Had a bad morning this morning because I got careless, and because I > altered my normal habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked into my > shirt starting the airplane, but this morning I simply clipped it onto the > Tx while it was sitting on the ground. Started my primary Black Magic, had > it sitting on idle, picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny such > that the strap bumped the throttle.enough to make the plane jump forward > startling me. In the split second that I moved to catch it, the strap > moved the throttle higher and before I could recover it, it slammed the > wing into the table next to me hard enough to snap the entire fuselage > into two pieces. > > > > > > > > > I was very fortunate that no one was injured and that no other equipment > was damaged, but I was crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such > catastrophic damage occur to the plane. They're just=2 > 0not meant for that type of abrupt side load. > > > > > > > > > > Anyhow, just wanted to throw out the warning. I've picked up my tx 1000 > times without incident, but seldom do I have the strap attached. Just not > my routine. But one odd movement can make things go VERY wrong, VERY fast. > Be careful, be methodical, and don't change your habits. > > > > > > > > > > Mark > > > PS, probably repairable over the winter. Fuse is in 2 pieces with a lot of > damage, and the wing that hit is pretty messed up. It'll be a project for > sure. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > > > > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > HotmailR is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it > now. > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrc > a.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 12:13:23 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:13:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what point you no longet "feel the difference".? For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frank, you > are getting your terms mixed > up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of > ?steps? from one end > of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as > latency, is the time it > takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the > servo moves. Actually, > it is the time until the servo receives the command to > move. The two functions > are not dependant upon each other. > > ? > > As far as > keeping up, that depends on > servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which > instantly commands a > function from low to high, for example. The time to get > there, however, will > depend on how fast the servo can move. > > ? > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of > frank > > Sent: Monday, > August 24, > 2009 > 3:30 > PM > > To: > 'General pattern > discussion' > > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > ? > > Hi Anthony, > Jim, Mark , and Others > who Responded, > > ? > > Thanks for > your valuable input. > I?ve read that this radio?s resolution is or is > among the very > ?fastest; so much so that even digital servos > can?t keep up with it. > I understand ?that the system is 1024 , but > can?t help but > ?wonder why it isn?t 2048. I?m sure > I?ll get past my > ?hangup, but would appreciate everyone?s > insight?s on that > one. > > ? > > Thanks, > > Frank > Imbriaco > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 24 12:25:58 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 20:25:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB86D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product manager for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with additional background. My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable. Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both. 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with the helis. So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 resolution. Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. Mike? Any input from the source? -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, Thanks for your valuable input. I?ve read that this radio?s resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos can?t keep up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can?t help but wonder why it isn?t 2048. I?m sure I?ll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone?s insight?s on that one. Thanks, Frank Imbriaco From perkinsrx at centurytel.net Mon Aug 24 13:48:49 2009 From: perkinsrx at centurytel.net (W. Eddie Batchelor) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:48:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder In-Reply-To: <814759F3BE384127B1DA7F7E9D60AD4A@WaynePC> Message-ID: <200908242148.n7OLmiUX019791@mail959c35.nsolutionszone.com> >I just wish I had time to build one of Marks Pentathlon's.< Wayne, Just do like I am doing . Get a kit - lay it out and do what you can, when you get a chance. It's been a year now and I can now piece together something that is beginning to look like an airplane :-). Ps Nat's Express's are some examples of planes that fly great with NO right thrust. Eddie -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Wayne Galligan Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:53 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder You would be surprised at how much of Marks design intervention was derived by Nats aero theories. Mark has incorporated it into a more current style of airplane... I just wish I had time to build one of Marks Pentathlon's. Wayne Galligan ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: "Ken Thompson" ; "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder One designer and builder that pushes the envelope is Mark Hunt. Take a look at his stuff and you will see true innovation and creativity. I too love when guys are trying new things to refine an already refined airframe. Mike _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From chuenkan at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 13:57:35 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:57:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <8CBF2E4031F9D70-258-3255@WEBMAIL-MZ38.sysops.aol.com> References: <485131.86347.qm@web80505.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <8CBF2E4031F9D70-258-3255@WEBMAIL-MZ38.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <20090824215735.5CA06115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> Well, Jon, *I* mark the FLAP channel servo and Rx leads -- does that make me weird, or what??? :-Dmao It does save me from reversing them -- since I use spoilers for landing, it means the spoilers go UP as they should, rather than DOWN... At 11:09 AM 8/24/2009, you wrote: >I just put a small tiewrap on the both the right >aileron receiver and servo leads. Match them >up, and I'm good. I do this on every plane I >have, so it is consistent. Jon Lowe >-----Original Message----- From: John Pavlick > To: General pattern >discussion >Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 10:02 am Subject: Re: >[NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Yeah but that >only happens on the first (and last) flight of a >new airplane. LOL Once you get the plane trimmed >out it's probably OK to just wiggle the sticks >and make sure everything moves. ? Here's >another thing that can go wrong without being >noticed: how many times have you plugged each >aileron into the wrong channel? In other words >the left aileron gets plugged into the channel >that's programmed for the right aileron and vise >versa. This doesn't reverse the direction but >the trim gets messed up.? A trick that? I >learned from Joe Lachowski was to use JR >extensions on one servo and Rx channel and >Futaba extensions on the other. It's pretty hard >to plug the wrong servo in this way even if >you're wiring is a chaotic mess. ? John Pavlick >--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall > wrote: From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: >[NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident To: "'Gen >eral pattern discussion'" > Date: Monday, >August 24, 2009, 10:35 AM Just ???wiggling??? >doesn???t do it. After changing servos, I >???wiggled??? and everything was fine .. until >airborne. The new servos rotated the opposite >direction and the ailerons were reversed! ? Jay >Marshall -----Original Message----- From: >nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, >August 24, 2009 10:28 AM To: General pattern >discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] >Stupid accident ? There was an old saw about >pilots who had landed gear up this? reminds me >of: "There are two types of pilots--those that >have landed gear up and those that are going >to.." And then a few--well actually many years >ago--there was another article in FLYING? by a >guy who had landed gear up for the second >time...? So he changed it to: "There are three >types of pilots--those that have, those that are >going to--and those that are going to >again..."? I lost a perfect Tipo 750 way back >and a nice Temptation more recently? by not >plugging in the ailerons and was distracted both >times during assembly--and not wiggling the >surfaces prior to take-off. RS >? >------------------------------------------------------------ >From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: >nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Mon, 24 >Aug 2009 00:53:11 -0400 Subject: Re: >[NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Been there >done that. But only once... so far... ? John >Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original >Message ----- From: Ronald Van Putte To: Jim >Quinn ; General pattern discussion Sent: >Saturday, August 22, 2009 5:50 PM Subject: Re: >[NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident ? My >favorite "trick" is to neglect to attach the >aileron servo connections if I am disturbed >while assembling the airplane. ? Consequently, >John Fuqua asks me to "wiggle the sticks" before >carrying the airplane out; it's saved my >airplane twice already. ? Ron VP ? On Aug 22, >2009, at 4:44 PM, Jim Quinn wrote: ? Wow! I saw >these planes at Toledo and the Nats! I'm really >sorry. They were/are beautiful trophy winners in >Toledo. I agree with Don, make a routine and >stick with it. A good budfdfy of mine recently >had 9 stitches from a mini electric (smaller >than a 1/2 glow) when his throttle went to high, >he grabbed the wing and the plane20spun around >and struck his hand. ? Jim Quinn >? ? >------------------------------------------------------------ >From: "Atwood, Mark" >To: General pattern discussion > Sent: >Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:45:03 PM Subject: >[NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident Hey All, >? Had a bad morning this morning because I got >careless, and because I altered my normal >habits. I normally have my neck strap tucked >into my shirt starting the airplane, but this >morning I simply clipped it onto the Tx while it >was sitting on the ground.? ? Started my >primary Black Magic, had it sitting on idle, >picked up my Tx and somehow turned the Tx funny >such that the strap bumped the throttle enough >to make the plane jump forward starttling >me.? In the split second that I moved to catch >it, the strap moved the throttle higher and >before I could recover it, it slammed the wing >into the table next to me hard enough to snap >the entire fuselage into two pieces.? ? I was >very fortunate that no one was injured and that >no other equipment was damaged, but I was >crushed to watch (in slow motion of course) such >catastrophic damage occur to the >plane.? They???re just=2 0not meant for that >type of abrupt side load. ? Anyhow, just wanted >to throw out the warning.? I???ve picked up my >tx 1000 times without incident, but seldom do I >have the strap attached.? Just not my routine. >But one odd movement can make things go VERY >wrong, VERY fast.? Be careful, be methodical, >and don???t change your habits. ? Mark PS, >probably repairable over the winter.? Fuse is >in 2 pieces with a lot of damage, and the wing >that hit is pretty messed up.? It???ll be a >project for >sure.? >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >? >------------------------------------------------------------ >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >? >------------------------------------------------------------ >Hotmail?? is up to 70% faster. Now good news >travels really fast. Try it now. -----Inline >Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrc >a.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 13:58:45 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:58:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Stupid accident In-Reply-To: <000001ca24cd$ade6cc40$0200a8c0@kencopepere> References: <8CBF2E4031F9D70-258-3255@WEBMAIL-MZ38.sysops.aol.com> <000001ca24cd$ade6cc40$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Message-ID: <20090824215844.AA5BD11625@bridi.netexpress.com> Then, that's what I need, since that is my usual state... At 11:15 AM 8/24/2009, you wrote: >If I can find the servo leads in colors, I usually use red and >green, both in the receiver and on the servo...green for right and >red for left...makes for brain dead assembly at the field. Ken ----- >Original Message ----- From: "Jon Lowe" -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 24 14:22:06 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:22:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB86D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB86D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <5BCF4BF2-44B7-4D40-AC4B-0D6A28D5D7F2@sbcglobal.net> Just for general info, when I was working at NASA a few years back I did a test with the Air Force Test Pilot School that studied latency in control systems. They found in their simulation tests that anything faster then about 40-50 ms was not noticed by the pilot. Resolution was not studied in that test, but I sure felt a difference when I went from a 10X with 1024 to a 12X with 2048. Just another opinion! Tony On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't > feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the > product manager for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with > additional background. > > My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs > resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 > resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any > difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable. > Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they > couldn't do both. > > 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. > That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. > > The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of > "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are > noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and > especially flying 3D with the helis. > > So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 > resolution. > > Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be > curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. > > Mike? Any input from the source? > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, > > > > Thanks for your valuable input. I?ve read that this radio?s > resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even > digital servos can?t keep up with it. I understand that the system > is 1024 , but can?t help but wonder why it isn?t 2048. I?m sure > I?ll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone?s insight?s > on that one. > > > > Thanks, > > Frank Imbriaco > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 24 15:25:02 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:25:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB873@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Do you really think its the improvement in resolution and not the improvement in speed between the two systems? I'm sure I don't have tight enough linkages to take advantage of 2048. I'm not sure they're tight enough to detect 1024. That would require less than .001" slop. .0005" for 2048. I pushed hard for 2048 because of all the "buzz" but after doing the math realized that no other part of my equipment has that level of accuracy. To be fair, I don't run the MK ball bearing linkages though. I'm inclined to agree that were getting speed in excess of our ability to discern, though I'm guessing that the responsiveness of a full scale jet is less than that of a 3D Heli. I think a LOT of this is similar to the old distortion specs for stereo equipment prior to CDs. Early CD players would boast signal to noise ratio's better than their competition even though even the cheapest units far exceeded the level of human hearing. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Aug 24 18:22:03 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Just for general info, when I was working at NASA a few years back I did a test with the Air Force Test Pilot School that studied latency in control systems. They found in their simulation tests that anything faster then about 40-50 ms was not noticed by the pilot. Resolution was not studied in that test, but I sure felt a difference when I went from a 10X with 1024 to a 12X with 2048. Just another opinion! Tony On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't > feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the > product manager for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with > additional background. > > My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs > resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 > resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any > difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable. > Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they > couldn't do both. > > 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. > That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. > > The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of > "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are > noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and > especially flying 3D with the helis. > > So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 > resolution. > > Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be > curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. > > Mike? Any input from the source? > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, > > > > Thanks for your valuable input. I?ve read that this radio?s > resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even > digital servos can?t keep up with it. I understand that the system > is 1024 , but can?t help but wonder why it isn?t 2048. I?m sure > I?ll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone?s insight?s > on that one. > > > > Thanks, > > Frank Imbriaco > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 24 15:36:31 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:36:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB873@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB873@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: I am pretty sure it is the resolution. Keep in mind that most installations are not using the full throw of the electronics. So you are using some percentage of either 1024 or 2048. All I know is what I felt when I changed. 2048 was a definite improvement and is why almost all the top systems have gone to it. As for a 3D heli VS a jet, jets were not what was used in the AFTPS test. Keep in mind that the people involved in that test were highly educated and trained test pilots and engineers. So I sort of trust their judgement! Tony On Aug 24, 2009, at 4:17 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Do you really think its the improvement in resolution and not the > improvement in speed between the two systems? I'm sure I don't have > tight enough linkages to take advantage of 2048. I'm not sure > they're tight enough to detect 1024. That would require less than . > 001" slop. .0005" for 2048. > > I pushed hard for 2048 because of all the "buzz" but after doing the > math realized that no other part of my equipment has that level of > accuracy. To be fair, I don't run the MK ball bearing linkages > though. > > I'm inclined to agree that were getting speed in excess of our > ability to discern, though I'm guessing that the responsiveness of a > full scale jet is less than that of a 3D Heli. > > I think a LOT of this is similar to the old distortion specs for > stereo equipment prior to CDs. Early CD players would boast signal > to noise ratio's better than their competition even though even the > cheapest units far exceeded the level of human hearing. > > > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Mon Aug 24 18:22:03 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Just for general info, when I was working at NASA a few years back I > did a test with the Air Force Test Pilot School that studied latency > in control systems. They found in their simulation tests that anything > faster then about 40-50 ms was not noticed by the pilot. Resolution > was not studied in that test, but I sure felt a difference when I went > from a 10X with 1024 to a 12X with 2048. Just another opinion! > > Tony > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 1:18 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > >> I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't >> feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the >> product manager for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with >> additional background. >> >> My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs >> resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 >> resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any >> difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable. >> Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they >> couldn't do both. >> >> 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. >> That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. >> >> The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of >> "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are >> noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and >> especially flying 3D with the helis. >> >> So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 >> resolution. >> >> Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be >> curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. >> >> Mike? Any input from the source? >> >> -Mark >> -------------------------- >> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, >> >> >> >> Thanks for your valuable input. I?ve read that this radio?s >> resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even >> digital servos can?t keep up with it. I understand that the system >> is 1024 , but can?t help but wonder why it isn?t 2048. I?m sure >> I?ll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone?s insight?s >> on that one. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Frank Imbriaco >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 15:58:50 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:58:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> How many go to the finals at the worlds? Brian ________________________________ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:09:42 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today.? Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team? ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Mon Aug 24 15:58:58 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:58:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB86D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <4FFB98D9DD8844BBB03106BE0BCD1C5A@jaysdesktop> A liner, non-digital system such as PPM, has infinite resolution and therefore the ultimate "smoothness". I agree, however, that you probably can't "feel" a 1/2048 digital step. I suspect that the major improvements have been in less latency. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:19 PM To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product manager for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with additional background. My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable. Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both. 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with the helis. So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 resolution. Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. Mike? Any input from the source? -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos can't keep up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can't help but wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. Thanks, Frank Imbriaco _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From troy at troynewman.net Mon Aug 24 16:12:43 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:12:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question In-Reply-To: <40E8B10E577F43DAA14652BAD90371B0@Tony> References: <40E8B10E577F43DAA14652BAD90371B0@Tony> Message-ID: Tony, Got your email today... Yes it can be done. I writing it up you don't want to mix button to throttle...you want to mix throttle to throttle with the button as the switch. Then when you let go of the button the throttle will return. Only when the button is ON with the mix be ON hence the kill switch active I'll get something done on it tonight step by step and then email that to Bruce. Troy From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:22 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question I have a customer with a JR question that I can't find the answer to.... If you can help, please e-mail me.. How can we set up the trainer button to "kill" the engine as the button is depressed, and then return to normal throttle setting upon release of that button. The problem is, he has it set up on the GEAR switch now...but is either forgetting to flip the switch after the engine dies, or is accidentally hitting the switch and when he attempts to start for the next flight, is frustrated as to why the engine won't start, until it 'Dawns" on him what has happened. Needless to say, he gets the usual "hoss laugh" from the chastizers about him and his face gets red. We have found a way to program "butn" as the MASTER and "throttle" as the slave and activate it with the trainer button, however, it retains the "off" condition until the button is depressed again. (Other words, the button, even tho it is spring-return, acts like a switch".) Can you help with a suggestion as to how this might be accomplished? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From troy at troynewman.net Mon Aug 24 16:17:32 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:17:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question In-Reply-To: References: <40E8B10E577F43DAA14652BAD90371B0@Tony> Message-ID: For more info on this...mixing the way described makes the button a toggle....push it once and kill stays active...push it again and its released. Mixing it the way I'm setting it up..the mix is only active when the button is depressed. Two different methods to accomplish the kill switch, just changing its application to fit the needs of the user. In that way its flexible, and helps to customize the setup to how you want it to work. It can do either or. Troy From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Troy Newman Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question Tony, Got your email today... Yes it can be done. I writing it up you don't want to mix button to throttle...you want to mix throttle to throttle with the button as the switch. Then when you let go of the button the throttle will return. Only when the button is ON with the mix be ON hence the kill switch active I'll get something done on it tonight step by step and then email that to Bruce. Troy From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tony Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:22 AM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question I have a customer with a JR question that I can't find the answer to.... If you can help, please e-mail me.. How can we set up the trainer button to "kill" the engine as the button is depressed, and then return to normal throttle setting upon release of that button. The problem is, he has it set up on the GEAR switch now...but is either forgetting to flip the switch after the engine dies, or is accidentally hitting the switch and when he attempts to start for the next flight, is frustrated as to why the engine won't start, until it 'Dawns" on him what has happened. Needless to say, he gets the usual "hoss laugh" from the chastizers about him and his face gets red. We have found a way to program "butn" as the MASTER and "throttle" as the slave and activate it with the trainer button, however, it retains the "off" condition until the button is depressed again. (Other words, the button, even tho it is spring-return, acts like a switch".) Can you help with a suggestion as to how this might be accomplished? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From xaviermouraux at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 16:18:00 2009 From: xaviermouraux at yahoo.com (Xavier Mouraux) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:18:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <240218.13182.qm@web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'll be interested to know also. Why don't you post it here. Thanks Xavier --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Troy Newman wrote: > From: Troy Newman > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > To: "General pattern discussion" > Received: Monday, August 24, 2009, 5:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony, > > ? > > Got your email > today? > > ? > > Yes it can be done. I writing > it up you don?t want to mix > button to throttle?you want to mix throttle to > throttle with the button > as the switch. Then when you let go of the button the > throttle will return. > Only when the button is ON with the mix be ON hence the > kill switch active > > ? > > I?ll get something done > on it tonight step by step and > then email that to Bruce. > > ? > > Troy > > ? > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Tony > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:22 AM > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > > > > > > ? > > I > have a customer with a JR question that I can?t find > the answer > to?. If you can help, please e-mail me.. > > > ? > > > ? > > How can we set up the trainer button > to "kill" the > engine as the button is depressed, and then return to > > normal throttle setting upon release > of that button. > > ? > > The problem is, he has it set up on > the GEAR switch > now...but is either forgetting to flip the switch after > the > > engine dies, or is accidentally > hitting the switch and when > he attempts to start for the next flight, is frustrated > > > as to why the engine won't start, > until it 'Dawns" on > him what has happened. Needless to say, he gets the > > usual "hoss laugh" from the > chastizers about him > and his face gets red. > > ? > > We have found a way to program > "butn" as the > MASTER and "throttle" as the slave and activate > it with > > the trainer button, however, it > retains the "off" > condition until the button is depressed again.? (Other > words, > > the button, even tho it is > spring-return, acts like a > switch".)? Can you help with a suggestion as to > how this > > might be accomplished? > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 > Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php From troy at troynewman.net Mon Aug 24 16:27:58 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:27:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question In-Reply-To: <240218.13182.qm@web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <240218.13182.qm@web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'll be happy to make it available to all. It's easy stuff once you see how it's done. I'm going to program it and write it up step by step. Troy -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Xavier Mouraux Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:18 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question I'll be interested to know also. Why don't you post it here. Thanks Xavier --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Troy Newman wrote: > From: Troy Newman > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > To: "General pattern discussion" > Received: Monday, August 24, 2009, 5:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony, > > ? > > Got your email > today? > > ? > > Yes it can be done. I writing > it up you don?t want to mix > button to throttle?you want to mix throttle to > throttle with the button > as the switch. Then when you let go of the button the > throttle will return. > Only when the button is ON with the mix be ON hence the > kill switch active > > ? > > I?ll get something done > on it tonight step by step and > then email that to Bruce. > > ? > > Troy > > ? > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Tony > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:22 AM > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > > > > > > ? > > I > have a customer with a JR question that I can?t find > the answer > to?. If you can help, please e-mail me.. > > > ? > > > ? > > How can we set up the trainer button > to "kill" the > engine as the button is depressed, and then return to > > normal throttle setting upon release > of that button. > > ? > > The problem is, he has it set up on > the GEAR switch > now...but is either forgetting to flip the switch after > the > > engine dies, or is accidentally > hitting the switch and when > he attempts to start for the next flight, is frustrated > > > as to why the engine won't start, > until it 'Dawns" on > him what has happened. Needless to say, he gets the > > usual "hoss laugh" from the > chastizers about him > and his face gets red. > > ? > > We have found a way to program > "butn" as the > MASTER and "throttle" as the slave and activate > it with > > the trainer button, however, it > retains the "off" > condition until the button is depressed again.? (Other > words, > > the button, even tho it is > spring-return, acts like a > switch".)? Can you help with a suggestion as to > how this > > might be accomplished? > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 > Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ed_alt at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 16:31:52 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:31:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] A different JR question - dual R921 receivers Message-ID: This is for anyone who has been successfully flying a dual R921 receiver installation. I've got a 40% gasser that I've flown with a single R921 receiver, no problems. However I recently upgraded with a 2nd receiver for that little extra bit of insurance. It works and all, but the other morning when I was doing final bench checks before flying it, I noticed that what I think may be some interaction between the two main receivers. It happens about every 5th or 6th time that I turn them both on, where one of them, sometimes both of them will experience fades on one or both receivers in the main unit. The total fades usually just keeps climbing, sometimes rapidly, sometimes not, and sometimes it stabilizes. The remotes never have a problem. So I am currently assuming that it is just that I have them a little too close to each other. They are relatively close, set at 90 degree angles to each other, about 2 3/4" apart at the closest corners (the connecter ends). I was wondering what kind of results others are having. I can certainly re-do the installation, but if there is already a minimum separation "rule" to observe, I would like to just plan for using that. Thanks Ed -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 16:33:21 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:33:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question References: <240218.13182.qm@web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sounds like it would also be great for scale guys, for opening a bomb bay door, stuff like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Newman" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > I'll be happy to make it available to all. > > It's easy stuff once you see how it's done. I'm going to program it and > write it up step by step. > > Troy > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Xavier > Mouraux > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:18 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > > I'll be interested to know also. Why don't you post it here. > Thanks > > Xavier > > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Troy Newman wrote: > >> From: Troy Newman >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question >> To: "General pattern discussion" >> Received: Monday, August 24, 2009, 5:12 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tony, >> >> >> >> Got your email >> today? >> >> >> >> Yes it can be done. I writing >> it up you don?t want to mix >> button to throttle?you want to mix throttle to >> throttle with the button >> as the switch. Then when you let go of the button the >> throttle will return. >> Only when the button is ON with the mix be ON hence the >> kill switch active >> >> >> >> I?ll get something done >> on it tonight step by step and >> then email that to Bruce. >> >> >> >> Troy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On >> Behalf Of Tony >> >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:22 AM >> >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I >> have a customer with a JR question that I can?t find >> the answer >> to?. If you can help, please e-mail me.. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> How can we set up the trainer button >> to "kill" the >> engine as the button is depressed, and then return to >> >> normal throttle setting upon release >> of that button. >> >> >> >> The problem is, he has it set up on >> the GEAR switch >> now...but is either forgetting to flip the switch after >> the >> >> engine dies, or is accidentally >> hitting the switch and when >> he attempts to start for the next flight, is frustrated >> >> >> as to why the engine won't start, >> until it 'Dawns" on >> him what has happened. Needless to say, he gets the >> >> usual "hoss laugh" from the >> chastizers about him >> and his face gets red. >> >> >> >> We have found a way to program >> "butn" as the >> MASTER and "throttle" as the slave and activate >> it with >> >> the trainer button, however, it >> retains the "off" >> condition until the button is depressed again. (Other >> words, >> >> the button, even tho it is >> spring-return, acts like a >> switch".) Can you help with a suggestion as to >> how this >> >> might be accomplished? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tony >> Stillman, President >> >> Radio >> South, Inc. >> >> 139 >> Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, >> GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > __________________________________________________________________ > Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the > new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at > http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 16:34:37 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:34:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <082420092010.3662.4A92F3C0000142D100000E4E22230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <082420092010.3662.4A92F3C0000142D100000E4E22230647629B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> Message-ID: <122512.32137.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I believe he is 14th or 15th. These rankings will change somewhat as the next two days unfold. For those who are interested, the normalized scores are based on the highest score in a given panel so far. Since half the scores in each panel are still unflown, it is possible for the perfect scores to get knocked down. The spreadsheet I built will self correct as I enter the full panel scores. But I just checked, the scores are no longer posted, so maybe we won't see any more until Wednesday night. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Ryan Smith To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:10:40 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Yes he did! -------------- Original message from Mark Hunt : -------------- > > >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! > > > > ________________________________ From: Bob Kane >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > >Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. > > >Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total >72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 >14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 >90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 >29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 >87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 >70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 >69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 >34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 >81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 >68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 > > >GO Team ! ! ! ! ! > > >Bob Kane >getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Snaproll4 at aol.com Mon Aug 24 16:38:51 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:38:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Message-ID: Bob, I noticed on some of the score sheets that a judge would mark a "10" on the noise line. Is this a penalty and how is it applied? Steve In a message dated 8/24/2009 8:34:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, getterflash at yahoo.com writes: I believe he is 14th or 15th. These rankings will change somewhat as the next two days unfold. For those who are interested, the normalized scores are based on the highest score in a given panel so far. Since half the scores in each panel are still unflown, it is possible for the perfect scores to get knocked down. The spreadsheet I built will self correct as I enter the full panel scores. But I just checked, the scores are no longer posted, so maybe we won't see any more until Wednesday night. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ____________________________________ From: Ryan Smith To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:10:40 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Yes he did! -------------- Original message from Mark Hunt : -------------- >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! ____________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane _getterflash at yahoo.com_ (mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list _NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org) _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joddino at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 24 16:53:07 2009 From: joddino at socal.rr.com (James Oddino) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:53:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <4FFB98D9DD8844BBB03106BE0BCD1C5A@jaysdesktop> References: <4FFB98D9DD8844BBB03106BE0BCD1C5A@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <292FA83E-6D16-413D-8F5A-9804C0BBA309@socal.rr.com> Our 72 MHz PPM systems do not have infinite resolution because they are limited to a 10 KHz bandwidth. Only so much information can be pumped through a given bandwidth. You can have more resolution at a lower frame rate or a higher frame rate at lower resolution. PPM probably does better in a 2.4 GHz system that has greater bandwidth depending on how the signal is processed. I assume the PPM is converted to digital before it is transmitted and is not degraded by the RF link. I have never gone back to 1024 after flying 2048 but I've been told you can tell the difference if you go back. Jim O On Aug 24, 2009, at 4:58 PM, Jay Marshall wrote: > A liner, non-digital system such as PPM, has infinite resolution and > therefore the ultimate "smoothness". I agree, however, that you > probably > can't "feel" a 1/2048 digital step. I suspect that the major > improvements > have been in less latency. > > Jay Marshall > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Atwood, Mark > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:19 PM > To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel > comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product > manager > for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with additional > background. > > My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs > resolution, > speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 resolution is > already to > the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the > speed/latency was much more noticable. Cost does come into the > equation > such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both. > > 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. > That's > less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. > > The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of > "feel". > The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable > when flying > Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with > the > helis. > > So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 > resolution. > > > Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be > curious to > know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. > > Mike? Any input from the source? > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, > > > > Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's > resolution is or > is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos > can't keep > up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can't help but > wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my hangup, but would > appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. > > > > Thanks, > > Frank Imbriaco > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From ed_alt at hotmail.com Mon Aug 24 17:17:11 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:17:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: [NSRCA-dist1] GSPA Is This Sunday Message-ID: Forwarding this reminder along for the upcoming GSPA contest. D1 Folks, The Granite State Precision Aerobatics contest will be running again this year as a single-day event on Sunday August 30, 2009, at the SNHRCC Field in Hudson, New Hampshire site. Web information can be found at the NSRCA site. The big-last-minute change being made for this particular contest impacts FAI pilots: as per FAI pilots', FAI will be flying P-011 sequence (instead of P-09) for all rounds of this contest. The intent for this change is to help prepare D1 FAI pilots for next year's NATS. Maybe some D1 Masters pilots may want to consider challenging the P011 sequence too! If you plan on attending, please preregister as soon as possible by sending myself an email to John at ne-aero.com with your name, frequency, and class. All preregistration donations will be collected at the event along with the on-site registration efforts. Good luck to all contestants! Take care, John --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Each day Begins with a whole new set of possibilities --------------------------------------------------------------------------- P Please consider the environment before printing this email. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-dist1 mailing list NSRCA-dist1 at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-dist1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 24 17:30:55 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:30:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob Richards In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <923454.79163.qm@web82101.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <898151.93987.qm@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73D5@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7409@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Bob, please contact me off list. I have the rx feedback you requested. -M -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Mon Aug 24 17:34:07 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:34:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> Geez! I was happy with 512. Ron VP On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what > point you no longet "feel the difference".? > For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > >> From: Jay Marshall >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Frank, you >> are getting your terms mixed >> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >> ?steps? from one end >> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >> latency, is the time it >> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >> servo moves. Actually, >> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >> move. The two functions >> are not dependant upon each other. >> >> >> >> As far as >> keeping up, that depends on >> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >> instantly commands a >> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >> there, however, will >> depend on how fast the servo can move. >> >> >> >> >> >> Jay Marshall >> >> >> >> -----Original >> Message----- >> >> From: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of >> frank >> >> Sent: Monday, >> August 24, >> 2009 >> 3:30 >> PM >> >> To: >> 'General pattern >> discussion' >> >> Subject: >> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> >> >> Hi Anthony, >> Jim, Mark , and Others >> who Responded, >> >> >> >> Thanks for >> your valuable input. >> I?ve read that this radio?s resolution is or is >> among the very >> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >> can?t keep up with it. >> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >> can?t help but >> wonder why it isn?t 2048. I?m sure >> I?ll get past my >> hangup, but would appreciate everyone?s >> insight?s on that >> one. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Frank >> Imbriaco >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 24 18:20:06 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:20:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <807824.64834.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I don't know, where did you see those? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "Snaproll4 at aol.com" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:38:37 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Bob, I noticed on some of the score sheets that a judge would mark a "10" on the noise line. Is this a penalty and how is it applied? Steve In a message dated 8/24/2009 8:34:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, getterflash at yahoo.com writes: I > believe he is 14th or 15th. These rankings will change somewhat as the > next two days unfold. For those who are interested, the normalized > scores are based on the highest score in a given panel so far. Since half the > scores in each panel are still unflown, it is possible for the perfect scores > to get knocked down. The spreadsheet I built will self correct as I enter the > full panel scores. But I just checked, the scores are no longer posted, > so maybe we won't see any more until Wednesday night. > > Bob Kane >getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > > ________________________________ From: Ryan Smith > >To: General pattern discussion > >Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:10:40 > PM >Subject: Re: > [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > >Yes he did! >-------------- >> Original message from Mark Hunt : -------------- >> >> >> >>From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: Bob Kane >> >>To: >> nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 >> PM >>Subject: >> [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores >> >>Here >> are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans >> until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should >> happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have >> yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. >> >> >>Dorsal >> Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total >>72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX >> CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 >>14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 >>90 AKIBA >> YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 >>29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 >>87 JESKY >> ANDREW USA 1929.6564 >>70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 >>69 ONDA >> TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 >>34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 >>81 ZEINER MARKUS >> AUT 1891.7513 >>68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 >> >> >>GO Team ! >> ! ! ! ! >> >> >>Bob Kane >>getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion >> mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion > mailing > list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Mon Aug 24 18:31:00 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 02:31:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> Message-ID: <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> I'm curious... How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Geez! I was happy with 512. Ron VP On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what > point you no longet "feel the difference".? > For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > >> From: Jay Marshall >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Frank, you >> are getting your terms mixed >> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >> "steps" from one end >> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >> latency, is the time it >> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >> servo moves. Actually, >> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >> move. The two functions >> are not dependant upon each other. >> >> >> >> As far as >> keeping up, that depends on >> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >> instantly commands a >> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >> there, however, will >> depend on how fast the servo can move. >> >> >> >> >> >> Jay Marshall >> >> >> >> -----Original >> Message----- >> >> From: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of >> frank >> >> Sent: Monday, >> August 24, >> 2009 >> 3:30 >> PM >> >> To: >> 'General pattern >> discussion' >> >> Subject: >> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> >> >> Hi Anthony, >> Jim, Mark , and Others >> who Responded, >> >> >> >> Thanks for >> your valuable input. >> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >> among the very >> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >> can't keep up with it. >> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >> can't help but >> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >> I'll get past my >> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >> insight's on that >> one. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Frank >> Imbriaco >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 24 19:21:52 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:21:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's spread across a smaller arc. We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical path to more accuracy. So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just about any other spec I would think. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'm curious... How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Geez! I was happy with 512. Ron VP On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what > point you no longet "feel the difference".? > For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > >> From: Jay Marshall >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Frank, you >> are getting your terms mixed >> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >> "steps" from one end >> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >> latency, is the time it >> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >> servo moves. Actually, >> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >> move. The two functions >> are not dependant upon each other. >> >> >> >> As far as >> keeping up, that depends on >> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >> instantly commands a >> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >> there, however, will >> depend on how fast the servo can move. >> >> >> >> >> >> Jay Marshall >> >> >> >> -----Original >> Message----- >> >> From: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of >> frank >> >> Sent: Monday, >> August 24, >> 2009 >> 3:30 >> PM >> >> To: >> 'General pattern >> discussion' >> >> Subject: >> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> >> >> Hi Anthony, >> Jim, Mark , and Others >> who Responded, >> >> >> >> Thanks for >> your valuable input. >> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >> among the very >> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >> can't keep up with it. >> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >> can't help but >> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >> I'll get past my >> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >> insight's on that >> one. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Frank >> Imbriaco >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 From vicenterc at comcast.net Mon Aug 24 19:45:29 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:45:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <856643819.3200911251171871041.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <755716410.3201201251171928908.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I wonder how we account for the human resolution.? I am sure that degrades with age as any electronic component.? That is life.? Probably the radio resolution of modern radios is already a lot more than the human resolution.? In other worlds, probably we can feel it but?human resolution won't be enough to make a significant difference . Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Atwood" < atwoodm @paragon-inc.com> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:14:38 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 or 2048 individual points in between. ?At a normal 100% that's across 90degs of throw. ?If you dial your endpoints down, it's spread across a smaller arc. We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. ? What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are improving together. ?The pots in the new radios (all brands) are significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to improve as well. ?My argument was simply that after 1024 (and probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak link" in the accuracy chain. ?We have too much slop elsewhere. ?Even a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and even movement of the control surface on the hingeline . ? Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly and watch carefully even with 1024. ?So to say that 2048 is not smoother would be foolish. ?But on our pattern planes and the throws we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical path to more accuracy. So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the resolution/accuracy of the servos? ?Does anyone publish that? (I'm pretty sure Atx doesn't). ?That would be as important than just about any other spec I would think. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org [ mailto : nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'm curious... How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org [ mailto : nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Geez ! ?I was happy with 512. Ron VP On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > ?So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what ? > point you no longet "feel the difference".? > ?For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall < lightfoot @ sc . rr .com> wrote: > >> From: Jay Marshall < lightfoot @ sc . rr .com> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> To: " 'General pattern discussion' " < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> >> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Frank, you >> are getting your terms mixed >> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >> "steps" from one end >> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >> latency, is the time it >> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >> servo moves. Actually, >> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >> move. The two functions >> are not dependant upon each other. >> >> >> >> As far as >> keeping up, that depends on >> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >> instantly commands a >> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >> there, however, will >> depend on how fast the servo can move. >> >> >> >> >> >> Jay Marshall >> >> >> >> -----Original >> Message----- >> >> From: >> nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org >> [ mailto : nsrca -discussion-bounces at lists. nsrca .org] >> On Behalf Of >> frank >> >> Sent: Monday, >> August 24, >> 2009 >> 3:30 >> PM >> >> To: >> 'General pattern >> ? discussion' >> >> Subject: >> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> >> >> Hi Anthony, >> Jim, Mark , and Others >> who Responded, >> >> >> >> Thanks for >> your valuable input. >> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >> among the very >> ?fastest; so much so that even digital servos >> can't keep up with it. >> I understand ?that the system is 1024 , but >> can't help but >> ?wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >> I'll get past my >> ?hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >> insight's on that >> one. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Frank >> Imbriaco >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org >> http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org > http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Mon Aug 24 20:33:09 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:33:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com><398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net><47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <579B30723B824DA58CA9FE10A134C85D@LLDPC> So assume travel is 135 degrees... The difference between 1024 and 2048 is equal to .0659 degrees... (~ 1/15 of a degree) 1) At what servo arm length does this rotation sample become significant? 2) How much throw of the stick can our thumbs/fingers really sense? I agree with Mark that there are too many variables in the set up to reliably say that we can detect the difference between the two in speed or finite stick movement (resolution). I would agree that resolution has no influence on speed. In addition, the speed of a control surface is relative to the many variables of set up. If servo "A" is set for max throw at 90 degrees; and, servo "B" is set for max throw at 135 degrees; and, both servos are the same speed, brand, etc... Servo "A" would feel faster than servo "B" due to less distance traveled. My conclusion is that even if a 40% plane did have a measurable difference in resolution steps for control surface movement, I don't think our human ability in stick movement is precise enough to take advantage. Also, the speed is very subjective with too many variables in set up to compare one to the other. Interesting thread... Larry -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:15 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's spread across a smaller arc. We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical path to more accuracy. So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just about any other spec I would think. -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'm curious... How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ronald Van Putte Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Geez! I was happy with 512. Ron VP On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what > point you no longet "feel the difference".? > For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > >> From: Jay Marshall >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Frank, you >> are getting your terms mixed >> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >> "steps" from one end >> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >> latency, is the time it >> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >> servo moves. Actually, >> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >> move. The two functions >> are not dependant upon each other. >> >> >> >> As far as >> keeping up, that depends on >> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >> instantly commands a >> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >> there, however, will >> depend on how fast the servo can move. >> >> >> >> >> >> Jay Marshall >> >> >> >> -----Original >> Message----- >> >> From: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >> On Behalf Of >> frank >> >> Sent: Monday, >> August 24, >> 2009 >> 3:30 >> PM >> >> To: >> 'General pattern >> discussion' >> >> Subject: >> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> >> >> Hi Anthony, >> Jim, Mark , and Others >> who Responded, >> >> >> >> Thanks for >> your valuable input. >> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >> among the very >> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >> can't keep up with it. >> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >> can't help but >> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >> I'll get past my >> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >> insight's on that >> one. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Frank >> Imbriaco >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From moleski at canisius.edu Mon Aug 24 20:34:54 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:34:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Anybody friends with Robert Hixson? Message-ID: <4A9369EA.7020402@canisius.edu> Robert lives in Santa Clara, CA. He keeps sending e-mail asking for help with his nsrca.us registration. I have replied every time. I have taken to sending replies both from my canisius.edu account as well as from gmail. I have called and left messages on his phone. I think he needs someone to go to his house and help sort out his e-mail. Any help you can give would be very much appreciated. Marty From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Mon Aug 24 20:55:32 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 04:55:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine of a command. Hope this isn't too confusing. TonyF On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your > endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 > or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's > across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's > spread across a smaller arc. > > We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. > > What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are > improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are > significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are > significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to > improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and > probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak > link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even > a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and > even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. > > Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC > Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly > and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not > smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws > we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical > path to more accuracy. > > So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the > resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm > pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just > about any other spec I would think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'm curious... > > How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Van > Putte > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Geez! I was happy with 512. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > >> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what >> point you no longet "feel the difference".? >> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 >> >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >> >>> From: Jay Marshall >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Frank, you >>> are getting your terms mixed >>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >>> "steps" from one end >>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >>> latency, is the time it >>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >>> servo moves. Actually, >>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >>> move. The two functions >>> are not dependant upon each other. >>> >>> >>> >>> As far as >>> keeping up, that depends on >>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >>> instantly commands a >>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >>> there, however, will >>> depend on how fast the servo can move. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jay Marshall >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original >>> Message----- >>> >>> From: >>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >>> On Behalf Of >>> frank >>> >>> Sent: Monday, >>> August 24, >>> 2009 >>> 3:30 >>> PM >>> >>> To: >>> 'General pattern >>> discussion' >>> >>> Subject: >>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Anthony, >>> Jim, Mark , and Others >>> who Responded, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for >>> your valuable input. >>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >>> among the very >>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >>> can't keep up with it. >>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >>> can't help but >>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >>> I'll get past my >>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >>> insight's on that >>> one. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Frank >>> Imbriaco >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From joddino at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 24 21:14:11 2009 From: joddino at socal.rr.com (James Oddino) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:14:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <2001A624-6F38-471F-9BFC-8F44D5AE2B47@socal.rr.com> One fine point that might confuse this issue is the fact that 2048 is the maximum number of steps and that only comes when you move the stick and the trim and maybe the subtrim to the extremes in each direction. In other words, moving just the stick from stop to stop will result in fewer steps even with the endpoints set to their maximum values. So it is even more important to understand what Tony is saying if you want to maximize resolution. Read it again. Jim O On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Anthony Frackowiak wrote: > I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you > get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the > electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel > at 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models > but this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 > by some percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate > remains 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so > now you're down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% > from there you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 > you would end up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference > between 1080 and 540. > > I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the > mechanicals to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are > inevitable. To get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot > of elevator deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so > for normal flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with > this sort of an example. And I do believe the better servos will > respond to this fine of a command. > > Hope this isn't too confusing. > > TonyF > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > >> The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your >> endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 >> or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's >> across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's >> spread across a smaller arc. >> >> We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. >> >> What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are >> improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are >> significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are >> significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to >> improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and >> probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak >> link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. >> Even a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the >> servo and even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. >> >> Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC >> Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly >> and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not >> smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the >> throws we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the >> critical path to more accuracy. >> >> So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the >> resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm >> pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just >> about any other spec I would think. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> I'm curious... >> >> How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of >> Ronald Van >> Putte >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> Geez! I was happy with 512. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: >> >>> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what >>> point you no longet "feel the difference".? >>> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 >>> >>> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >>> >>>> From: Jay Marshall >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >>> > >>>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Frank, you >>>> are getting your terms mixed >>>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >>>> "steps" from one end >>>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >>>> latency, is the time it >>>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >>>> servo moves. Actually, >>>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >>>> move. The two functions >>>> are not dependant upon each other. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As far as >>>> keeping up, that depends on >>>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >>>> instantly commands a >>>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >>>> there, however, will >>>> depend on how fast the servo can move. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jay Marshall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original >>>> Message----- >>>> >>>> From: >>>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >>>> On Behalf Of >>>> frank >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, >>>> August 24, >>>> 2009 >>>> 3:30 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> To: >>>> 'General pattern >>>> discussion' >>>> >>>> Subject: >>>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Anthony, >>>> Jim, Mark , and Others >>>> who Responded, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for >>>> your valuable input. >>>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >>>> among the very >>>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >>>> can't keep up with it. >>>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >>>> can't help but >>>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >>>> I'll get past my >>>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >>>> insight's on that >>>> one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> Imbriaco >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: >> 08/20/09 06:05:00 >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From moleski at canisius.edu Mon Aug 24 21:24:22 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:24:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] (OT) SBCglobal e-mail problem Message-ID: <4A937582.9070605@canisius.edu> It's looks as though sbcglobal (the system on which Robert Hixson is a customer) has very stringent anti-spam measures in place. Robert may not even be aware that this is going on. I have received zero error messages from sbcglobal. They seem to silently discard traffic that they distrust. Any other sbcglobal customers out there having similar problems? Marty From Snaproll4 at aol.com Tue Aug 25 02:33:32 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 10:33:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Message-ID: Bob,Try this _http://2009worldsportugal.shutterfly.com/379#378_ (http://2009worldsportugal.shutterfly.com/379#378) Steve In a message dated 8/24/2009 10:20:29 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, getterflash at yahoo.com writes: I don't know, where did you see those? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ____________________________________ From: "Snaproll4 at aol.com" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:38:37 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Bob, I noticed on some of the score sheets that a judge would mark a "10" on the noise line. Is this a penalty and how is it applied? Steve In a message dated 8/24/2009 8:34:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, getterflash at yahoo.com writes: I believe he is 14th or 15th. These rankings will change somewhat as the next two days unfold. For those who are interested, the normalized scores are based on the highest score in a given panel so far. Since half the scores in each panel are still unflown, it is possible for the perfect scores to get knocked down. The spreadsheet I built will self correct as I enter the full panel scores. But I just checked, the scores are no longer posted, so maybe we won't see any more until Wednesday night. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ____________________________________ From: Ryan Smith To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:10:40 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Yes he did! -------------- Original message from Mark Hunt : -------------- >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! ____________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane _getterflash at yahoo.com_ (mailto:getterflash at yahoo.com) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list _NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org_ (mailto:NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org) _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 03:36:05 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:36:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] (OT) SBCglobal e-mail problem In-Reply-To: <4A937582.9070605@canisius.edu> References: <4A937582.9070605@canisius.edu> Message-ID: <771587.93409.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Marty, I have no trouble with SBC global here in SE Texas.? I have noticed that their anti-spam engine will flush alot of e-mails with subject formats similar to the list subject to the online spam folder.? The only way to see them is to logon to the Yahoo/ATT/SbcGlobal web e-mail portal and look in the spam folder there.? At that point you can select messages in the spam folder and mark them as "Not Spam".? The filter will then recognize future messaged from?the same source as OK and let them through.? I think you can also go to?your account setting somewhere and kill the?spam filter, but?it's?not that much of a nuisance once you get used to it. Richard Lewis?? ________________________________ From: "Martin X. Moleski, SJ" To: NSRCA Discussion List Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:24:18 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] (OT) SBCglobal e-mail problem It's looks as though sbcglobal (the system on which Robert Hixson is a customer) has very stringent anti-spam measures in place. Robert may not even be aware that this is going on. I have received zero error messages from sbcglobal. They seem to silently discard traffic that they distrust. Any other sbcglobal customers out there having similar problems? ??? ??? ??? ??? Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Tue Aug 25 04:21:35 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:21:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] (OT) SBCglobal e-mail problem In-Reply-To: <771587.93409.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <4A937582.9070605@canisius.edu> <771587.93409.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A93D74B.2050502@canisius.edu> Richard Lewis wrote: > I have no trouble with SBC global here in SE Texas. I have noticed that > their anti-spam engine will flush alot of e-mails with subject formats > similar to the list subject to the online spam folder. The only way to see > them is to logon to the Yahoo/ATT/SbcGlobal web e-mail portal and look in > the spam folder there. At that point you can select messages in the spam > folder and mark them as "Not Spam". The filter will then recognize future > messages from the same source as OK and let them through. I think you can > also go to your account setting somewhere and kill the spam filter, but it's > not that much of a nuisance once you get used to it. Thanks for the suggestion. I did suggest to Hixson that he check the spam traps in the two messages I left on his voice mail last weekend. He has not returned my calls nor acknowledged receiving them. Maybe the DeathStar filters voicemail, too. :-O Marty From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 25 05:40:05 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 13:40:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <4FFB98D9DD8844BBB03106BE0BCD1C5A@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <497637.37032.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Good point Jay. Remember, no matter WHAT people say (or would like to have us believe), we live in an analog world. Trying to digitize an "analog" motion is best accomplished with the largest number of bits that bandwidth (and memory) allows. But there's more to our control systems than meets the eye. ? One thing to keep in mind is that Pattern setups are almost totally opposite from "3D" setups.?Pattern strives for maximum control precision?with the least amount of surface travel whereas "3D" does the opposite. What this means is that our linkages are configured to give the servo maximum mechanical advantage. This is like putting a transmission in low gear. You have lots of torque but not a lot of speed. It also means that the "resolution" of the control system (meaning servos and encoding process) does not play as large a part in the total positioning accuracy as it does with a "3D" setup. Not that high-resolution numbers are "bad" - they're certainly not, but in a Pattern setup they're not as important as you might think. If the servo has a 3:1 mechanical advantage over the control surface (as opposed to a "3D" setup which may be close to 1:1) then a 1 degree "error" at the servo only gives us .3 degrees at the control surface. Can you even measure that with one of the "standard" weighted-pendulum deflection gages? On the other hand a "slow" servo will become very noticeable in this case.?When the servo must rotate to it's extremes while only moving the control surface a slight amount, it will take a noticeably long time if the servo is slow. When you look at the mechanics in detail it becomes apparent that a good Pattern control system could actually compromise on "resolution" and instead?look to improve?the "speed" + "response". So maybe the Airtronics Engineers hit the nail on the head. I'm sure if you told them to build the BEST control system possible they would throw in 2048 resolution if they could, but in this case they had to make a decision and it looks to me like they made the right one. As long as you're a Pattern pilot anyway. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: From: Jay Marshall Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:58 PM A liner, non-digital system such as PPM, has infinite resolution and therefore the ultimate "smoothness". I agree, however, that you probably can't "feel" a 1/2048 digital step. I suspect that the major improvements have been in less latency. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:19 PM To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product manager for ATX here in the states.? He may chime in with additional background. My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor.? 1024 resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable.???Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both.??? 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation.? That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with the helis.??? So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 resolution. Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy?? I'd be curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate.??? Mike?? Any input from the source? -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's resolution is or is among the very? fastest; so much so that even digital servos can't keep up with it. I understand? that the system is 1024 , but can't help but wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my? hangup, but would appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. Thanks, Frank Imbriaco _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Tue Aug 25 06:06:20 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:06:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7435@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Hey Tony, I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying to make a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a previous post regarding how the resolution and EPA settings interact, you're explanation is clearer and is also my understanding. I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't "better". The original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 over 1024" and the answer from their end was cost and the "opinion" that given the cost choice between speed and resolution, that speed had a more noticeable impact on most setups. The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more secure by putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door. You're only as safe as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking through the door or breaking a window...the locks are more than adequate and no longer the weak point in the system. I believe the same is true for resolution, it's no longer the weak point in the system. To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given resolution is constant. So in your max travel example, which I think is a good one, we're probably talking about spreading 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at max. Thus the "step" size for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and therefore at 1024 it's approx 1/7th of a degree. Regardless of how you dial down your rates, that will always be the smallest step size. I.e. if you reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down to 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of rotation) we now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 pts across 72degrees with 1024. In Both cases the step size is still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th respectively. My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx .0012" movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of inaccuracy in our setups. Or at least in most people's setups. Getting a setup tighter than that is hard. Keeping it there is even harder. Servo gear trains have slop, ball links, clevises (big slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube all allow for movement in micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given point. And I won't even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying glow due to vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot. (I know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! I'm working on it!). Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing where best to spend their money to gain the most functionality and advantage in their flying setups, and in a similar fashion Airtronics did the same. They felt they were giving the pilot the best bang for the buck by choosing speed over resolution. I DO think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) it will likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line systems. I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening to some. I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though as clearly I have bias as an Airtronics pilot. I just wanted to try and answer the question. I'm happy to discuss further off list, or answer other specific questions on or off list, but for now I'm going to bow out of this thread. Thanks, Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine of a command. Hope this isn't too confusing. TonyF On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your > endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 > or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's > across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's > spread across a smaller arc. > > We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. > > What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are > improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are > significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are > significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to > improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and > probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak > link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even > a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and > even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. > > Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC > Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly > and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not > smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws > we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical > path to more accuracy. > > So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the > resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm > pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just > about any other spec I would think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'm curious... > > How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Van > Putte > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Geez! I was happy with 512. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > >> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what >> point you no longet "feel the difference".? >> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 >> >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >> >>> From: Jay Marshall >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Frank, you >>> are getting your terms mixed >>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >>> "steps" from one end >>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >>> latency, is the time it >>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >>> servo moves. Actually, >>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >>> move. The two functions >>> are not dependant upon each other. >>> >>> >>> >>> As far as >>> keeping up, that depends on >>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >>> instantly commands a >>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >>> there, however, will >>> depend on how fast the servo can move. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jay Marshall >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original >>> Message----- >>> >>> From: >>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >>> On Behalf Of >>> frank >>> >>> Sent: Monday, >>> August 24, >>> 2009 >>> 3:30 >>> PM >>> >>> To: >>> 'General pattern >>> discussion' >>> >>> Subject: >>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Anthony, >>> Jim, Mark , and Others >>> who Responded, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for >>> your valuable input. >>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >>> among the very >>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >>> can't keep up with it. >>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >>> can't help but >>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >>> I'll get past my >>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >>> insight's on that >>> one. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Frank >>> Imbriaco >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 06:06:53 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:06:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> 31 are going.... On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young wrote: > How many go to the finals at the worlds? > > Brian > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mark Hunt > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 3:09:42 PM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Kane > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for > beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which > should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe > have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. > > > Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total > 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 > 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 > 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 > 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 > 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 > 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 > 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 > 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 > 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 > 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 > > > GO Team ! ! ! ! ! > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Tue Aug 25 06:09:54 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:09:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7438@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> To the finals??? Are you sure that's not Semi Finals? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:07 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores 31 are going.... On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young > wrote: How many go to the finals at the worlds? Brian ________________________________ From: Mark Hunt > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:09:42 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! ________________________________ From: Bob Kane > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/25/09 06:08:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Tue Aug 25 06:10:06 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:10:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <019d01ca258d$b4dc18a0$1e9449e0$@net> You mean semi's, right Derek?? From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:07 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores 31 are going.... On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young wrote: How many go to the finals at the worlds? Brian _____ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:09:42 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! _____ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 06:11:53 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:11:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3454543c0908250711t74350cc5r88e13fd3be8e1b15@mail.gmail.com> Steve, One judge was marking a noise penalty due to a misinterpretation in language. He thought he was marking that the plane was quiet - it has been corrected. The way the noise penalty is done is that a majority of judges need to mark the noise box and then a penalty of 10 points is applied per judge. So on a 5 judge panel, 3 out of 5 need to mark the noise box. -Derek On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM, wrote: > Bob, > > I noticed on some of the score sheets that a judge would mark a "10" on > the noise line. Is this a penalty and how is it applied? > > Steve > > In a message dated 8/24/2009 8:34:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > getterflash at yahoo.com writes: > > I believe he is 14th or 15th. These rankings will change somewhat as the > next two days unfold. For those who are interested, the normalized scores > are based on the highest score in a given panel so far. Since half the > scores in each panel are still unflown, it is possible for the perfect > scores to get knocked down. The spreadsheet I built will self correct as I > enter the full panel scores. But I just checked, the scores are no longer > posted, so maybe we won't see any more until Wednesday night. > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ryan Smith > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 4:10:40 PM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > Yes he did! > > -------------- Original message from Mark Hunt : > -------------- > > From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Bob Kane > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for > beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which > should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe > have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. > > > Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total > 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 > 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 > 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 > 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 > 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 > 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 > 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 > 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 > 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 > 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 > > > GO Team ! ! ! ! ! > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 06:12:38 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:12:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <497637.37032.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <497637.37032.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <77020F3D-6515-4A7B-82D8-8A9BC94863AD@sbcglobal.net> Some good points, but I must correct a misconception. There is system "latency" and then there is servo speed. These are two different things. Reduced latency does not make the servo faster. It only very slightly reduces the time between stick movement and when the servo begins to move. It doesn't make full travel servo speed any faster. This is a subtle point but an important one in this discussion. Also, when I want my control throws measured properly I never use the hanging weight devices. They are not accurate enough. I use a 7" protractor and pointers on the surfaces. This is much better and lets me detect even a single digit of travel adjust. I still feel that improved resolution is better for pattern flying then a slight decrease in system latency. But that is just my opinion! Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:40 AM, John Pavlick wrote: > Good point Jay. Remember, no matter WHAT people say (or would like > to have us believe), we live in an analog world. Trying to digitize > an "analog" motion is best accomplished with the largest number of > bits that bandwidth (and memory) allows. But there's more to our > control systems than meets the eye. > > One thing to keep in mind is that Pattern setups are almost totally > opposite from "3D" setups. Pattern strives for maximum control > precision with the least amount of surface travel whereas "3D" does > the opposite. What this means is that our linkages are configured to > give the servo maximum mechanical advantage. This is like putting a > transmission in low gear. You have lots of torque but not a lot of > speed. It also means that the "resolution" of the control system > (meaning servos and encoding process) does not play as large a part > in the total positioning accuracy as it does with a "3D" setup. Not > that high-resolution numbers are "bad" - they're certainly not, but > in a Pattern setup they're not as important as you might think. If > the servo has a 3:1 mechanical advantage over the control surface > (as opposed to a "3D" setup which may be close to 1:1) then a 1 > degree "error" at the servo only gives us .3 degrees at the control > surface. Can you even measure that with one of the "standard" > weighted-pendulum deflection gages? On the other hand a "slow" servo > will become very noticeable in this case. When the servo must rotate > to it's extremes while only moving the control surface a slight > amount, it will take a noticeably long time if the servo is slow. > When you look at the mechanics in detail it becomes apparent that a > good Pattern control system could actually compromise on > "resolution" and instead look to improve the "speed" + "response". > So maybe the Airtronics Engineers hit the nail on the head. I'm sure > if you told them to build the BEST control system possible they > would throw in 2048 resolution if they could, but in this case they > had to make a decision and it looks to me like they made the right > one. As long as you're a Pattern pilot anyway. :) > > John Pavlick > > > --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:58 PM > > A liner, non-digital system such as PPM, has infinite resolution and > therefore the ultimate "smoothness". I agree, however, that you > probably > can't "feel" a 1/2048 digital step. I suspect that the major > improvements > have been in less latency. > > Jay Marshall > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Atwood, Mark > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:19 PM > To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel > comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product > manager > for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with additional > background. > > My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs > resolution, > speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 resolution is > already to > the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the > speed/latency was much more noticable. Cost does come into the > equation > such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both. > > 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. > That's > less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. > > The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of > "feel". > The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable > when flying > Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with > the > helis. > > So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 > resolution. > > > Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be > curious to > know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. > > Mike? Any input from the source? > > -Mark > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, > > > > Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's > resolution is or > is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos > can't keep > up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can't help but > wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my hangup, but would > appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. > > > > Thanks, > > Frank Imbriaco > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 06:17:44 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:17:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7438@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7438@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908250717l270225a0u7d4010f1ee8ce41@mail.gmail.com> My mistake... 31 to the semis... On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > To the finals??? Are you sure that?s not Semi Finals? > > > > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Derek Koopowitz > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:07 AM > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's > Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > > > 31 are going.... > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young > wrote: > > How many go to the finals at the worlds? > > > > Brian > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Mark Hunt > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 3:09:42 PM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Bob Kane > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for > beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which > should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe > have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. > > > Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total > 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 > 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 > 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 > 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 > 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 > 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 > 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 > 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 > 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 > 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 > > > GO Team ! ! ! ! ! > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/25/09 > 06:08:00 > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Tue Aug 25 06:18:37 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:18:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: To the Finals? Or to the SemiFinals? 31 seems too many for the Finals. If I remember the F3A rule book, 20% should go to the Finals. 31 to the Finals would mean there are about 155 pilots. Are there that many pilots there? BTW, where the pilots/supporters are looks very dirty/dusty. Ron VP On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > 31 are going.... > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young > wrote: > How many go to the finals at the worlds? > > Brian > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 06:28:44 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:28:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908250728n3c42a315m276058eacf5e8437@mail.gmail.com> It is very dusty here, Ron... a very fine dust covers everything and with the suntan lotion on it sticks to you like... you know what. The top 1/3 of pilots but not more than 30 pilots go to the semis - I don't know why I typed 31 before (I had 33% on my brain and it misfired). The top 10 then go to the finals. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Ronald Van Putte wrote: > To the Finals? Or to the SemiFinals? 31 seems too many for the Finals. > If I remember the F3A rule book, 20% should go to the Finals. 31 to the > Finals would mean there are about 155 pilots. Are there that many pilots > there? > BTW, where the pilots/supporters are looks very dirty/dusty. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > > 31 are going.... > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young wrote: > >> How many go to the finals at the worlds? >> >> Brian >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 25 06:31:42 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:31:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module Message-ID: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vanputte at cox.net Tue Aug 25 06:33:14 2009 From: vanputte at cox.net (Ronald Van Putte) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:33:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908250728n3c42a315m276058eacf5e8437@mail.gmail.com> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> <3454543c0908250728n3c42a315m276058eacf5e8437@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <707838DA-B1E6-4D54-8AF8-58D119915FE2@cox.net> I was wondering if any pilots were having motor problems due to the dust. Electric-powered airplanes should have an advantage if that's the case. Ron VP On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > It is very dusty here, Ron... a very fine dust covers everything > and with the suntan lotion on it sticks to you like... you know what. > > The top 1/3 of pilots but not more than 30 pilots go to the semis - > I don't know why I typed 31 before (I had 33% on my brain and it > misfired). The top 10 then go to the finals. > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Ronald Van Putte > wrote: > To the Finals? Or to the SemiFinals? 31 seems too many for the > Finals. If I remember the F3A rule book, 20% should go to the > Finals. 31 to the Finals would mean there are about 155 pilots. > Are there that many pilots there? > > BTW, where the pilots/supporters are looks very dirty/dusty. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > >> 31 are going.... >> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young >> wrote: >> How many go to the finals at the worlds? >> >> Brian >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Tue Aug 25 06:35:30 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:35:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] (OT) SBCglobal e-mail problem Message-ID: Marty, I get emails from Robert from time to time and I know he gets mine. I will contact him to alert him to the issue. Don In a message dated 8/24/2009 10:24:41 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, moleski at canisius.edu writes: It's looks as though sbcglobal (the system on which Robert Hixson is a customer) has very stringent anti-spam measures in place. Robert may not even be aware that this is going on. I have received zero error messages from sbcglobal. They seem to silently discard traffic that they distrust. Any other sbcglobal customers out there having similar problems? Marty _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 06:35:35 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:35:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7435@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7435@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <501FC462-0867-48B6-AF0F-73BE0AAE9DA1@sbcglobal.net> Hi Mark, I never saw this as a "brand" war, I was just trying to correct what I saw as some misconceptions out there and perhaps express another viewpoint. I guess this really comes down to an agreement to disagree. You feel resolution greater then 1024 is below recognition and I feel latency below 40 ms is below that point. The great thing about the hobby is that the buyer has a lot of choices. So I guess you pick your poison! And you are correct about electric being better! Thanks! Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Hey Tony, > > I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying > to make a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a > previous post regarding how the resolution and EPA settings > interact, you're explanation is clearer and is also my understanding. > > I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't > "better". The original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 > over 1024" and the answer from their end was cost and the "opinion" > that given the cost choice between speed and resolution, that speed > had a more noticeable impact on most setups. > > The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more > secure by putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door. > You're only as safe as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking > through the door or breaking a window...the locks are more than > adequate and no longer the weak point in the system. I believe the > same is true for resolution, it's no longer the weak point in the > system. > > To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given > resolution is constant. So in your max travel example, which I > think is a good one, we're probably talking about spreading > 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at max. Thus the "step" size > for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and therefore at 1024 it's > approx 1/7th of a degree. Regardless of how you dial down your > rates, that will always be the smallest step size. I.e. if you > reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down > to 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of > rotation) we now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 > pts across 72degrees with 1024. In Both cases the step size is > still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th respectively. > > My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx . > 0012" movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of > inaccuracy in our setups. Or at least in most people's setups. > Getting a setup tighter than that is hard. Keeping it there is even > harder. Servo gear trains have slop, ball links, clevises (big > slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube all allow for movement in > micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given point. And I won't > even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying glow due to > vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot. (I > know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! > I'm working on it!). > > Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing > where best to spend their money to gain the most functionality and > advantage in their flying setups, and in a similar fashion > Airtronics did the same. They felt they were giving the pilot the > best bang for the buck by choosing speed over resolution. I DO > think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) it will > likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line > systems. I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. > > This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening > to some. I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though > as clearly I have bias as an Airtronics pilot. I just wanted to try > and answer the question. I'm happy to discuss further off list, or > answer other specific questions on or off list, but for now I'm > going to bow out of this thread. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you > get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the > electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at > 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but > this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some > percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains > 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're > down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there > you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end > up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and > 540. > > I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals > to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To > get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator > deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal > flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an > example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine > of a command. > > Hope this isn't too confusing. > > TonyF > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > >> The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your >> endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 >> or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's >> across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's >> spread across a smaller arc. >> >> We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. >> >> What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are >> improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are >> significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are >> significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to >> improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and >> probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak >> link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even >> a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and >> even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. >> >> Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC >> Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly >> and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not >> smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws >> we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical >> path to more accuracy. >> >> So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the >> resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm >> pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just >> about any other spec I would think. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> I'm curious... >> >> How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of >> Ronald Van >> Putte >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> Geez! I was happy with 512. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: >> >>> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what >>> point you no longet "feel the difference".? >>> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 >>> >>> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >>> >>>> From: Jay Marshall >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Frank, you >>>> are getting your terms mixed >>>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >>>> "steps" from one end >>>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >>>> latency, is the time it >>>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >>>> servo moves. Actually, >>>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >>>> move. The two functions >>>> are not dependant upon each other. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As far as >>>> keeping up, that depends on >>>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >>>> instantly commands a >>>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >>>> there, however, will >>>> depend on how fast the servo can move. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jay Marshall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original >>>> Message----- >>>> >>>> From: >>>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >>>> On Behalf Of >>>> frank >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, >>>> August 24, >>>> 2009 >>>> 3:30 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> To: >>>> 'General pattern >>>> discussion' >>>> >>>> Subject: >>>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Anthony, >>>> Jim, Mark , and Others >>>> who Responded, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for >>>> your valuable input. >>>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >>>> among the very >>>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >>>> can't keep up with it. >>>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >>>> can't help but >>>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >>>> I'll get past my >>>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >>>> insight's on that >>>> one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> Imbriaco >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: >> 08/20/09 06:05:00 >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 25 06:36:51 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:36:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908250711t74350cc5r88e13fd3be8e1b15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: What!? Judges that don't know the rules??? Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:12 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Steve, One judge was marking a noise penalty due to a misinterpretation in language. He thought he was marking that the plane was quiet - it has been corrected. The way the noise penalty is done is that a majority of judges need to mark the noise box and then a penalty of 10 points is applied per judge. So on a 5 judge panel, 3 out of 5 need to mark the noise box. -Derek On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM, wrote: Bob, I noticed on some of the score sheets that a judge would mark a "10" on the noise line. Is this a penalty and how is it applied? Steve In a message dated 8/24/2009 8:34:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, getterflash at yahoo.com writes: I believe he is 14th or 15th. These rankings will change somewhat as the next two days unfold. For those who are interested, the normalized scores are based on the highest score in a given panel so far. Since half the scores in each panel are still unflown, it is possible for the perfect scores to get knocked down. The spreadsheet I built will self correct as I enter the full panel scores. But I just checked, the scores are no longer posted, so maybe we won't see any more until Wednesday night. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _____ From: Ryan Smith To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:10:40 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Yes he did! -------------- Original message from Mark Hunt : -------------- >From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! _____ From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 GO Team ! ! ! ! ! Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 06:39:46 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:39:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> References: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <80CDD98B-139D-498F-B96D-9940C20321D4@sbcglobal.net> I flew the 2.4 module a lot in a 9303 before the pure 2.4 systems came out. No problems, however you do not have some of the nice features that come with the pure 2.4 systems. Such as Modelmatch does not work with the module systems. And the pure 2.4 systems are faster. But reliability is not a concern. Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: > All: > I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver > on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly > on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter > synthesizer. > However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit > and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming > thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. > However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby > shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a > basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed > to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's > reliability or safety of flight." > Any advice will be appreciated. > > Bill Glaze > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 06:39:59 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:39:59 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <45119164.3311091251211198613.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Bill, I have been using the 2.4 on JR 10X in the last 3 seasons and never had any problem.? Actually, I noticed that it is a lot safer?when using?gasoline engines.? I will guess that it is the same when?using YS-CDI engines.? It is?more immune to RF problems.?? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Glaze" < billglaze @ bellsouth .net> To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:31:46 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module All: I bought from a pattern fllyer , a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer,? While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig.? I know that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight."? Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Tue Aug 25 06:41:36 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:41:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <501FC462-0867-48B6-AF0F-73BE0AAE9DA1@sbcglobal.net> References: <31703.85065.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <398E470C-BE96-4E67-AF43-E0667F02FCC8@cox.net> <47514AC72805425FA73F9F9BFFB72FA8@LLDPC> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7411@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7435@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <501FC462-0867-48B6-AF0F-73BE0AAE9DA1@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7440@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I actually think we're both right and that the specs are starting to exceed our needs which is awesome. As for brand wars, no, I didn't think it was either...I just didn't want it to become one. Appreciate all the conversation! -Mark (PS, and it may even be an E-Passport) -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:36 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hi Mark, I never saw this as a "brand" war, I was just trying to correct what I saw as some misconceptions out there and perhaps express another viewpoint. I guess this really comes down to an agreement to disagree. You feel resolution greater then 1024 is below recognition and I feel latency below 40 ms is below that point. The great thing about the hobby is that the buyer has a lot of choices. So I guess you pick your poison! And you are correct about electric being better! Thanks! Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Hey Tony, > > I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying > to make a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a > previous post regarding how the resolution and EPA settings > interact, you're explanation is clearer and is also my understanding. > > I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't > "better". The original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 > over 1024" and the answer from their end was cost and the "opinion" > that given the cost choice between speed and resolution, that speed > had a more noticeable impact on most setups. > > The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more > secure by putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door. > You're only as safe as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking > through the door or breaking a window...the locks are more than > adequate and no longer the weak point in the system. I believe the > same is true for resolution, it's no longer the weak point in the > system. > > To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given > resolution is constant. So in your max travel example, which I > think is a good one, we're probably talking about spreading > 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at max. Thus the "step" size > for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and therefore at 1024 it's > approx 1/7th of a degree. Regardless of how you dial down your > rates, that will always be the smallest step size. I.e. if you > reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down > to 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of > rotation) we now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 > pts across 72degrees with 1024. In Both cases the step size is > still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th respectively. > > My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx . > 0012" movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of > inaccuracy in our setups. Or at least in most people's setups. > Getting a setup tighter than that is hard. Keeping it there is even > harder. Servo gear trains have slop, ball links, clevises (big > slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube all allow for movement in > micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given point. And I won't > even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying glow due to > vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot. (I > know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! > I'm working on it!). > > Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing > where best to spend their money to gain the most functionality and > advantage in their flying setups, and in a similar fashion > Airtronics did the same. They felt they were giving the pilot the > best bang for the buck by choosing speed over resolution. I DO > think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) it will > likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line > systems. I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. > > This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening > to some. I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though > as clearly I have bias as an Airtronics pilot. I just wanted to try > and answer the question. I'm happy to discuss further off list, or > answer other specific questions on or off list, but for now I'm > going to bow out of this thread. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you > get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the > electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at > 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but > this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some > percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains > 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're > down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there > you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end > up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and > 540. > > I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals > to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To > get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator > deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal > flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an > example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine > of a command. > > Hope this isn't too confusing. > > TonyF > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > >> The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your >> endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 >> or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's >> across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's >> spread across a smaller arc. >> >> We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. >> >> What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are >> improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are >> significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are >> significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to >> improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and >> probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak >> link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even >> a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and >> even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. >> >> Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC >> Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly >> and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not >> smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws >> we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical >> path to more accuracy. >> >> So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the >> resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm >> pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just >> about any other spec I would think. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> I'm curious... >> >> How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of >> Ronald Van >> Putte >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> Geez! I was happy with 512. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: >> >>> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what >>> point you no longet "feel the difference".? >>> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 >>> >>> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >>> >>>> From: Jay Marshall >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Frank, you >>>> are getting your terms mixed >>>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >>>> "steps" from one end >>>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >>>> latency, is the time it >>>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >>>> servo moves. Actually, >>>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >>>> move. The two functions >>>> are not dependant upon each other. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As far as >>>> keeping up, that depends on >>>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >>>> instantly commands a >>>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >>>> there, however, will >>>> depend on how fast the servo can move. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Jay Marshall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original >>>> Message----- >>>> >>>> From: >>>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >>>> On Behalf Of >>>> frank >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, >>>> August 24, >>>> 2009 >>>> 3:30 >>>> PM >>>> >>>> To: >>>> 'General pattern >>>> discussion' >>>> >>>> Subject: >>>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Anthony, >>>> Jim, Mark , and Others >>>> who Responded, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks for >>>> your valuable input. >>>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >>>> among the very >>>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >>>> can't keep up with it. >>>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >>>> can't help but >>>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >>>> I'll get past my >>>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >>>> insight's on that >>>> one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Frank >>>> Imbriaco >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: >> 08/20/09 06:05:00 >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 25 06:41:41 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:41:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <9009725534D74F6CB1BA03094F71C1AD@jaysdesktop> Can't speak to JR, but the plug-in 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only problem is that if you use a tray it will probably have to be modified. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:32 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 06:46:00 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:46:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> References: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <21B95C72C38C4F90A8157FD95BF81ADD@davedesktop> Bill, "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Then I guess the shop owner also would not trust any of the RF modules that plug into the back of a radio? There are only 3 differences between the plug-in module and a ground up 2.4 system, none of which relate to his (bogus) concern - 1. No model match 2. No servo sync 3. You do need to make sure the 2.4 wire connecting the module to the antenna does not get damaged - not a big deal, just make sure you aware of it - should not be a problem with good handling of the radio. Regards, Dave Lockhart Team JR _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:32 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 06:51:22 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:51:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <1236017830.3315581251211871934.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1052724515.3315631251211881917.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Dave, Is the?servo sync used?to mach servos when you use more than one servo in one surface? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:42:19 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module Bill, "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Then I guess the shop owner also would not trust any of the RF modules that plug into the back of a radio? ?There are only 3 differences between the plug-in module and a ground up 2.4 system, none of which relate to his (bogus) concern ? 1.? No model match 2. ?No servo sync 3. ?You do need to make sure the 2.4 wire connecting the module to the antenna does not get damaged ? not a big deal, just make sure you aware of it ? should not be a problem with good handling of the radio. Regards, Dave Lockhart Team JR From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:32 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer,? While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig.? I know that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight."? Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 25 06:58:03 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 14:58:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7435@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <774478.29265.qm@web80501.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more secure by putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door.? You're only as safe as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking through the door or breaking a window...the locks are more than adequate and no longer the weak point in the system.? I believe the same is true for resolution, it's no longer the weak point in the system." ? ?Good point. FYI - I only have one lock on?the ?door, but I have 6 bullets in the gun! LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: From: Atwood, Mark Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 9:59 AM Hey Tony, I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying to make a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a previous post regarding how the resolution and EPA settings interact, you're explanation is clearer and is also my understanding. I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't "better".? The original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 over 1024" and the answer from their end was cost and the "opinion" that given the cost choice between speed and resolution, that speed had a more noticeable impact on most setups. The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more secure by putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door.? You're only as safe as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking through the door or breaking a window...the locks are more than adequate and no longer the weak point in the system.? I believe the same is true for resolution, it's no longer the weak point in the system. To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given resolution is constant.? So in your max travel example, which I think is a good one, we're probably talking about spreading 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at max.? Thus the "step" size for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and therefore at 1024 it's approx 1/7th of a degree.? Regardless of how you dial down your rates, that will always be the smallest step size.? I.e. if you reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down to 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of rotation) we now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 pts across 72degrees with 1024.? In Both cases the step size is still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th respectively. My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx .0012" movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of inaccuracy in our setups.? Or at least in most people's setups.? Getting a setup tighter than that is hard.? Keeping it there is even harder. Servo gear trains have slop, ball links, clevises (big slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube all allow for movement in micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given point. And I won't even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying glow due to vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot.? (I know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! I'm working on it!).? Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing where best to spend their money to gain the most functionality and advantage in their flying setups, and in a similar fashion Airtronics did the same.? They felt they were giving the pilot the best bang for the buck by choosing speed over resolution.? I DO think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) it will likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line systems.? I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening to some.? I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though as clearly I have bias as an Airtronics pilot.? I just wanted to try and answer the question.? I'm happy to discuss further off list, or answer other specific questions on or off list, but for now I'm going to bow out of this thread. Thanks, Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you? get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the? electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at? 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but? this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some? percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains? 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're? down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there? you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end? up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals? to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To? get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator? deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal? flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an? example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine? of a command. Hope this isn't too confusing. TonyF On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your? > endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024? > or 2048 individual points in between.? At a normal 100% that's? > across 90degs of throw.? If you dial your endpoints down, it's? > spread across a smaller arc. > > We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. > > What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are? > improving together.? The pots in the new radios (all brands) are? > significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are? > significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to? > improve as well.? My argument was simply that after 1024 (and? > probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak? > link" in the accuracy chain.? We have too much slop elsewhere.? Even? > a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and? > even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. > > Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC? > Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly? > and watch carefully even with 1024.? So to say that 2048 is not? > smoother would be foolish.? But on our pattern planes and the throws? > we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical? > path to more accuracy. > > So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the? > resolution/accuracy of the servos?? Does anyone publish that? (I'm? > pretty sure Atx doesn't).? That would be as important than just? > about any other spec I would think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'm curious... > > How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of? > Ronald Van > Putte > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Geez!? I was happy with 512. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > >> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what >> point you no longet "feel the difference".? >> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 >> >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >> >>> From: Jay Marshall >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Frank, you >>> are getting your terms mixed >>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >>> "steps" from one end >>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >>> latency, is the time it >>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >>> servo moves. Actually, >>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >>> move. The two functions >>> are not dependant upon each other. >>> >>> >>> >>> As far as >>> keeping up, that depends on >>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >>> instantly commands a >>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >>> there, however, will >>> depend on how fast the servo can move. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jay Marshall >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original >>> Message----- >>> >>> From: >>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >>> On Behalf Of >>> frank >>> >>> Sent: Monday, >>> August 24, >>> 2009 >>> 3:30 >>> PM >>> >>> To: >>> 'General pattern >>> discussion' >>> >>> Subject: >>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Anthony, >>> Jim, Mark , and Others >>> who Responded, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for >>> your valuable input. >>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >>> among the very >>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >>> can't keep up with it. >>> I understand? that the system is 1024 , but >>> can't help but >>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >>> I'll get past my >>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >>> insight's on that >>> one. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Frank >>> Imbriaco >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date:? > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonlowe at aol.com Tue Aug 25 07:07:31 2009 From: jonlowe at aol.com (Jon Lowe) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:07:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> References: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <8CBF3ACDBD90BED-640-1871A@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Total hog wash. I've been using the Spektrum modules since the day they came out in two 10x's, as has my Dad. Work great. All you do is put in the module, change from PCM to PPM in the modulation setting for each airplane, bind with your receiver, and go fly. The circuitry in the modules is identical to what is in the "dedicated" transmitters. The only thing you won't get is 2048 resolution because the transmitter can't do it. All of the Spektrum receivers work just fine with the modules. I've also got a Spektrum module in my old Futaba 9VAC, and it works just fine. He's just trying to sell you a new transmitter. Horizon recently reduced the price of the module/receiver combos. You can get a module with a 7 channel receiver for $110. Jon Lowe -----Original Message----- From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2009 9:31 am Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer,? While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig.? I know that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight."? Any advice will be appreciated. ? Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From burtona at atmc.net Tue Aug 25 07:08:24 2009 From: burtona at atmc.net (Dave Burton) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:08:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <45119164.3311091251211198613.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> <45119164.3311091251211198613.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <009601ca2595$e3a5a900$aaf0fb00$@net> Bill, Ditto for me. I?ve got two 10X transmitters with the 2.4 modules I started flying last year and so far no problems. I thought it was cost effective way to begin transition to 2.4 and I?ll eventually buy pure 2.4 TX transmitters. Dave Burton From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:40 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module Bill, I have been using the 2.4 on JR 10X in the last 3 seasons and never had any problem. Actually, I noticed that it is a lot safer when using gasoline engines. I will guess that it is the same when using YS-CDI engines. It is more immune to RF problems. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Glaze" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:31:46 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 07:08:35 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:08:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <933632285.3314191251211672372.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1047750545.3323321251212914892.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Actually I remember the 10X been a little faster using 2.4 modules when compared with the 72 Mhz system.?? I am not sure about the 9303 but I assume is?similar.? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Frackowiak" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:39:44 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I flew the 2.4 module a lot in a 9303 before the pure 2.4 systems came out. No problems, however you do not have some of the nice features that come with the pure 2.4 systems. Such as Modelmatch does not work with the module systems. And the pure 2.4 systems are faster. But reliability is not a concern. Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer,? While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig.? I know that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight."? Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Tue Aug 25 07:13:00 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:13:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <8CBF3ACDBD90BED-640-1871A@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> References: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> <8CBF3ACDBD90BED-640-1871A@webmail-m080.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: I'll add my experience. I have been up thru the various purpose built JR/Spektrum 2.4gHz systems. >From the DX-7 to the X9303 and finally the 12X. I have also used my Futaba 9CAP I bought when I started back in RC after my 20+ year layoff. The Spektrum module system in the Futaba has worked without problem. I wouldn't hesitate to fly it in any plane I own. JLK > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:07:12 -0400 > From: jonlowe at aol.com > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > > Total hog wash. I've been using the Spektrum modules since the day > they came out in two 10x's, as has my Dad. Work great. All you do is > put in the module, change from PCM to PPM in the modulation setting for > each airplane, bind with your receiver, and go fly. The circuitry in > the modules is identical to what is in the "dedicated" transmitters. > The only thing you won't get is 2048 resolution because the transmitter > can't do it. All of the Spektrum receivers work just fine with the > modules. I've also got a Spektrum module in my old Futaba 9VAC, and it > works just fine. He's just trying to sell you a new transmitter. > > Horizon recently reduced the price of the module/receiver combos. You > can get a module with a 7 channel receiver for $110. > > Jon Lowe > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Glaze > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Tue, Aug 25, 2009 9:31 am > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All: > > > I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 > Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, > While I > do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter > with a 6 > meter synthesizer. > > > However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a > conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's > > > definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the > older system. > > > However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I > was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, > because, > it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't > designed to > be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's > reliability or > safety of flight." > > > Any advice will be appreciated. > > > > > > Bill Glaze > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 25 07:14:20 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:14:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <77020F3D-6515-4A7B-82D8-8A9BC94863AD@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <958741.8283.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Yes?I understand that. I guess?I oversimplified a bit. I was assuming that their tradeoff decision took into account the frame rate of the data. As you know, you can get more bits at a slower frame rate or have a higher frame rate with less bits - given a fixed bandwidth. As all servos are now pretty fast, it would seem that increasing the frame rate would work in your favor AND make the control system more responsive, especially in a Pattern setup. A "fast" servo that is being updated with a position signal at a "slow" rate is not a good thing. ? I remember when PCM was becoming popular, a few guys took some measurements of the different systems (Futaba, JR, etc.) comparing frame rate, resolution, latency, etc.. This was really interesting stuff. Now that we have 2048 resolution and 2.4GHz systems in widespread use,?I think it's time we did this again. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Anthony Frackowiak wrote: From: Anthony Frackowiak Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 10:12 AM Some good points, but I must correct a misconception. There is system "latency" and then there is servo speed. These are two different things. Reduced latency does not make the servo faster. It only very slightly reduces the time between stick movement and when the servo begins to move. It doesn't make full travel servo speed any faster. This is a subtle point but an important one in this discussion. Also, when I want my control throws measured properly I never use the hanging weight devices. They are not accurate enough. I use a 7" protractor and pointers on the surfaces. This is much better and lets me detect even a single digit of travel adjust. I still feel that improved resolution is better for pattern flying then a slight decrease in system latency. But that is just my opinion! Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:40 AM, John Pavlick wrote: Good point Jay. Remember, no matter WHAT people say (or would like to have us believe), we live in an analog world. Trying to digitize an "analog" motion is best accomplished with the largest number of bits that bandwidth (and memory) allows. But there's more to our control systems than meets the eye. ? One thing to keep in mind is that Pattern setups are almost totally opposite from "3D" setups.?Pattern strives for maximum control precision?with the least amount of surface travel whereas "3D" does the opposite. What this means is that our linkages are configured to give the servo maximum mechanical advantage. This is like putting a transmission in low gear. You have lots of torque but not a lot of speed. It also means that the "resolution" of the control system (meaning servos and encoding process) does not play as large a part in the total positioning accuracy as it does with a "3D" setup. Not that high-resolution numbers are "bad" - they're certainly not, but in a Pattern setup they're not as important as you might think. If the servo has a 3:1 mechanical advantage over the control surface (as opposed to a "3D" setup which may be close to 1:1) then a 1 degree "error" at the servo only gives us .3 degrees at the control surface. Can you even measure that with one of the "standard" weighted-pendulum deflection gages? On the other hand a "slow" servo will become very noticeable in this case.?When the servo must rotate to it's extremes while only moving the control surface a slight amount, it will take a noticeably long time if the servo is slow. When you look at the mechanics in detail it becomes apparent that a good Pattern control system could actually compromise on "resolution" and instead?look to improve?the "speed" + "response". So maybe the Airtronics Engineers hit the nail on the head. I'm sure if you told them to build the BEST control system possible they would throw in 2048 resolution if they could, but in this case they had to make a decision and it looks to me like they made the right one. As long as you're a Pattern pilot anyway. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: From: Jay Marshall Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:58 PM A liner, non-digital system such as PPM, has infinite resolution and therefore the ultimate "smoothness". I agree, however, that you probably can't "feel" a 1/2048 digital step. I suspect that the major improvements have been in less latency. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:19 PM To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product manager for ATX here in the states.? He may chime in with additional background. My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor.? 1024 resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable.???Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both.??? 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation.? That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with the helis.??? So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 resolution. Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy?? I'd be curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate.??? Mike?? Any input from the source? -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's resolution is or is among the very? fastest; so much so that even digital servos can't keep up with it. I understand? that the system is 1024 , but can't help but wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my? hangup, but would appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. Thanks, Frank Imbriaco _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 07:18:09 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:18:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <1047750545.3323321251212914892.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <933632285.3314191251211672372.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <1047750545.3323321251212914892.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Vince, Yes, servo sync matches servo outputs when using mixing. The 10X is faster in PPM mode (compared to PCM), and PPM mode is used when adding the 2.4 module. The 2.4 module adds a small bit of latency, but the net result is still a tiny bit faster than pure PCM - difference is small enough that I don't know anyone who noticed a difference between PCM and PPM w/ 2.4. Regards, Dave Lockhart Team JR _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:09 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module Actually I remember the 10X been a little faster using 2.4 modules when compared with the 72 Mhz system. I am not sure about the 9303 but I assume is similar. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Frackowiak" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:39:44 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I flew the 2.4 module a lot in a 9303 before the pure 2.4 systems came out. No problems, however you do not have some of the nice features that come with the pure 2.4 systems. Such as Modelmatch does not work with the module systems. And the pure 2.4 systems are faster. But reliability is not a concern. Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 07:23:39 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:23:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1408183168.3331101251213818634.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Dave, I was able to notice when doing snaps only.? No difference in normal fly.? Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:14:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module Vince, Yes, servo sync matches servo outputs when using mixing. The 10X is faster in PPM mode (compared to PCM), and PPM mode is used when adding the 2.4 module.? The 2.4 module adds a small bit of latency, but the net result is still a tiny bit faster than pure PCM ? difference is small enough that I don?t know anyone who noticed a difference between PCM and PPM w/ 2.4. Regards, Dave Lockhart Team JR From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Vicente "Vince" Bortone Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:09 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module Actually I remember the 10X been a little faster using 2.4 modules when compared with the 72 Mhz system.?? I am not sure about the 9303 but I assume is?similar.? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony Frackowiak" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:39:44 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I flew the 2.4 module a lot in a 9303 before the pure 2.4 systems came out. No problems, however you do not have some of the nice features that come with the pure 2.4 systems. Such as Modelmatch does not work with the module systems. And the pure 2.4 systems are faster. But reliability is not a concern. Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer,? While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig.? I know that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight."? Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer,? While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig.? I know that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight."? Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Tue Aug 25 07:23:49 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:23:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question In-Reply-To: References: <240218.13182.qm@web38905.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2B7B34F9F06A4D39B149915507033CB2@Tony> Thanks, Troy! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Troy Newman Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:28 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question I'll be happy to make it available to all. It's easy stuff once you see how it's done. I'm going to program it and write it up step by step. Troy -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Xavier Mouraux Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 5:18 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question I'll be interested to know also. Why don't you post it here. Thanks Xavier --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Troy Newman wrote: > From: Troy Newman > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > To: "General pattern discussion" > Received: Monday, August 24, 2009, 5:12 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tony, > > ? > > Got your email > today > > ? > > Yes it can be done. I writing > it up you don?t want to mix > button to throttle you want to mix throttle to > throttle with the button > as the switch. Then when you let go of the button the > throttle will return. > Only when the button is ON with the mix be ON hence the > kill switch active > > ? > > I?ll get something done > on it tonight step by step and > then email that to Bruce. > > ? > > Troy > > ? > > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Tony > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 11:22 AM > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question > > > > > > ? > > I > have a customer with a JR question that I can?t find > the answer > to . If you can help, please e-mail me.. > > > ? > > > ? > > How can we set up the trainer button > to "kill" the > engine as the button is depressed, and then return to > > normal throttle setting upon release > of that button. > > ? > > The problem is, he has it set up on > the GEAR switch > now...but is either forgetting to flip the switch after > the > > engine dies, or is accidentally > hitting the switch and when > he attempts to start for the next flight, is frustrated > > > as to why the engine won't start, > until it 'Dawns" on > him what has happened. Needless to say, he gets the > > usual "hoss laugh" from the > chastizers about him > and his face gets red. > > ? > > We have found a way to program > "butn" as the > MASTER and "throttle" as the slave and activate > it with > > the trainer button, however, it > retains the "off" > condition until the button is depressed again.? (Other > words, > > the button, even tho it is > spring-return, acts like a > switch".)? Can you help with a suggestion as to > how this > > might be accomplished? > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > Tony > Stillman, President > > Radio > South, Inc. > > 139 > Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, > GA? 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > > ? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion __________________________________________________________________ Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 07:35:33 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:35:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <77020F3D-6515-4A7B-82D8-8A9BC94863AD@sbcglobal.net> References: <497637.37032.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <77020F3D-6515-4A7B-82D8-8A9BC94863AD@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <2E2EB3129816486497C997E6BE7F8608@davedesktop> Ditto on the hanging weight deflection meters..I have them in my field box for emergencies at the field. A good laser pointer (Budd) setup will easily show 0.1 degree at the control surface, and I suspect the digital deflection meters will as well. I think having better than 0.1 degree of resolution matters (and this is easier to do with 2048 as shown in examples previously given), assuming the rest of the control system (servos, linkages, hinges) are that good - and if they aren't, then my opinion is fix the servos, linkages, etc. My recollection is that the best possible human reaction time in a simple situation is something like 100 ms, with the average reaction time being about 200 ms. This is actual reaction time, not anticipation (you can't anticipate a wind gust that rocks the wings, but you can anticipate the end of a rolling maneuver or snap maneuver). Reaction time in a complex situation is a different animal because time is required to see, process, and then react to the situation - ie, a driver may not actually hit the brakes for a panic stop until 1 - 1.5 seconds after the need arises (the additional time beyond 200 ms is the processing/analyzing). Without starting a brand war..there was (is) a very popular radio that is a little slow in terms of latency (and that could have been adjusted to), but the latency deviation (minimum compared to average, maximum compared to average) was pretty severe...and that made the radio unflyable (for me). I much preferred a slower radio (or a faster radio) with a narrower range of max/min latency. Predictability and consistency in the control system is very important - even if it is slow, if it is consistent, it can be adapted too. With all the changes in radios the past 20 years in terms of resolution and processing speed (FM to PCM, 512 to 1024, 1024 to 2048, early 2.4 systems, 2.4 add-ons, newest 2.4 systems), I've noticed faster response and better resolution. I think the best radios today are all under the previously quoted (Tony) 40-50ms. It would be interesting to note if that study included an analysis of max/min latency. For me personally, when the latency min/max range exceeds about 20ms, that is the point at which I can notice the inconsistency (ie, 20-40ms ok, 30-50ms ok, 20-50ms annoying). Regards, Dave Lockhart Team JR _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:13 AM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Some good points, but I must correct a misconception. There is system "latency" and then there is servo speed. These are two different things. Reduced latency does not make the servo faster. It only very slightly reduces the time between stick movement and when the servo begins to move. It doesn't make full travel servo speed any faster. This is a subtle point but an important one in this discussion. Also, when I want my control throws measured properly I never use the hanging weight devices. They are not accurate enough. I use a 7" protractor and pointers on the surfaces. This is much better and lets me detect even a single digit of travel adjust. I still feel that improved resolution is better for pattern flying then a slight decrease in system latency. But that is just my opinion! Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:40 AM, John Pavlick wrote: Good point Jay. Remember, no matter WHAT people say (or would like to have us believe), we live in an analog world. Trying to digitize an "analog" motion is best accomplished with the largest number of bits that bandwidth (and memory) allows. But there's more to our control systems than meets the eye. One thing to keep in mind is that Pattern setups are almost totally opposite from "3D" setups. Pattern strives for maximum control precision with the least amount of surface travel whereas "3D" does the opposite. What this means is that our linkages are configured to give the servo maximum mechanical advantage. This is like putting a transmission in low gear. You have lots of torque but not a lot of speed. It also means that the "resolution" of the control system (meaning servos and encoding process) does not play as large a part in the total positioning accuracy as it does with a "3D" setup. Not that high-resolution numbers are "bad" - they're certainly not, but in a Pattern setup they're not as important as you might think. If the servo has a 3:1 mechanical advantage over the control surface (as opposed to a "3D" setup which may be close to 1:1) then a 1 degree "error" at the servo only gives us .3 degrees at the control surface. Can you even measure that with one of the "standard" weighted-pendulum deflection gages? On the other hand a "slow" servo will become very noticeable in this case. When the servo must rotate to it's extremes while only moving the control surface a slight amount, it will take a noticeably long time if the servo is slow. When you look at the mechanics in detail it becomes apparent that a good Pattern control system could actually compromise on "resolution" and instead look to improve the "speed" + "response". So maybe the Airtronics Engineers hit the nail on the head. I'm sure if you told them to build the BEST control system possible they would throw in 2048 resolution if they could, but in this case they had to make a decision and it looks to me like they made the right one. As long as you're a Pattern pilot anyway. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: From: Jay Marshall Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 To: "'General pattern discussion'" Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:58 PM A liner, non-digital system such as PPM, has infinite resolution and therefore the ultimate "smoothness". I agree, however, that you probably can't "feel" a 1/2048 digital step. I suspect that the major improvements have been in less latency. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:19 PM To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product manager for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with additional background. My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs resolution, speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 resolution is already to the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the speed/latency was much more noticable. Cost does come into the equation such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both. 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of rotation. That's less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of "feel". The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable when flying Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with the helis. So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 resolution. Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be curious to know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. Mike? Any input from the source? -Mark -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's resolution is or is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos can't keep up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can't help but wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my hangup, but would appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. Thanks, Frank Imbriaco _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Tue Aug 25 07:44:23 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:44:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] (OT) SBCglobal e-mail problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A9406D4.1070109@canisius.edu> AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: > Marty, I get emails from Robert from time to time and I know he gets mine. > I will contact him to alert him to the issue. Thanks. I have left a third message on his voice mail. Ask him to look in his spam folder for the 18 or so e-mails I have sent him. Thanks. Marty From AWorrest at aol.com Tue Aug 25 08:28:58 2009 From: AWorrest at aol.com (AWorrest at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:28:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question Message-ID: For the 9303, to make the trainer button a momentary kill switch, first go to the DeviceSEL menu and set AUX4 to be activated by BUTN. Leave AUX4 output active. In a linear program mix menu, mix AUX4 into THRO. In Pos1 lower position, set the value to +100%. Set the THRO STK to some low value like 12 so the kill will only take place when the throttle stick is in the idle position. The only problems that some people may have is with the timer. If you use the trainer button to start the timer, you will momentarily cause the engine to go low. Most engines will not stop with a quick blip on the button that is needed to start the timer. But if this is a problem, use the timer switch on the front panel. The other thing is that killing the engine will stop the timer. I find this to be a benefit. Allan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 25 08:46:39 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:46:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7435@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: A big thank you to all for this discussion. About a week ago I solicited input on a Futaba system and it was suggested that I also consider the SD-10. I was hoping for more discussion at the time. I looked at an SD-10 in the local hobby shop yesterday and the price is very hard to walk away from and it fit my hands nicely. My thumb resolution isn't what it once was and will likely get worse but I'm now becoming more aware of 'bounce-back' and poor centering likely due to worn (non-BB) stick assemblies and cheap servos. The TX stick assembly centering detents that I've looked at in the past have a spring loaded bar against a flat spot on a round shaft. I've never felt that this offered accurate repeatability for very long. Have there been improvements or changes to mechanical stick centering? In the old days I remember a test device that could be plugged into the receiver that displayed the count relative to stick movement, which was useful for understanding centering repeatability. Am I dreaming or did such a device really exist? Is there something available now? Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:59 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Hey Tony, I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying to make a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a previous post regarding how the resolution and EPA settings interact, you're explanation is clearer and is also my understanding. I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't "better". The original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 over 1024" and the answer from their end was cost and the "opinion" that given the cost choice between speed and resolution, that speed had a more noticeable impact on most setups. The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more secure by putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door. You're only as safe as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking through the door or breaking a window...the locks are more than adequate and no longer the weak point in the system. I believe the same is true for resolution, it's no longer the weak point in the system. To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given resolution is constant. So in your max travel example, which I think is a good one, we're probably talking about spreading 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at max. Thus the "step" size for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and therefore at 1024 it's approx 1/7th of a degree. Regardless of how you dial down your rates, that will always be the smallest step size. I.e. if you reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down to 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of rotation) we now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 pts across 72degrees with 1024. In Both cases the step size is still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th respectively. My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx .0012" movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of inaccuracy in our setups. Or at least in most people's setups. Getting a setup tighter than that is hard. Keeping it there is even harder. Servo gear trains have slop, ball links, clevises (big slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube all allow for movement in micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given point. And I won't even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying glow due to vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot. (I know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! I'm working on it!). Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing where best to spend their money to gain the most functionality and advantage in their flying setups, and in a similar fashion Airtronics did the same. They felt they were giving the pilot the best bang for the buck by choosing speed over resolution. I DO think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) it will likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line systems. I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening to some. I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though as clearly I have bias as an Airtronics pilot. I just wanted to try and answer the question. I'm happy to discuss further off list, or answer other specific questions on or off list, but for now I'm going to bow out of this thread. Thanks, Mark -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Frackowiak Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine of a command. Hope this isn't too confusing. TonyF On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your > endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 > or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's > across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's > spread across a smaller arc. > > We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. > > What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are > improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are > significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are > significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to > improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and > probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak > link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even > a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and > even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. > > Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC > Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly > and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not > smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws > we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical > path to more accuracy. > > So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the > resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm > pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just > about any other spec I would think. > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM > To: 'General pattern discussion' > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'm curious... > > How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > Ronald Van > Putte > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Geez! I was happy with 512. > > Ron VP > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > >> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what >> point you no longet "feel the difference".? >> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 >> >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >> >>> From: Jay Marshall >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> >>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Frank, you >>> are getting your terms mixed >>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of >>> "steps" from one end >>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as >>> latency, is the time it >>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the >>> servo moves. Actually, >>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to >>> move. The two functions >>> are not dependant upon each other. >>> >>> >>> >>> As far as >>> keeping up, that depends on >>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which >>> instantly commands a >>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get >>> there, however, will >>> depend on how fast the servo can move. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Jay Marshall >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original >>> Message----- >>> >>> From: >>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] >>> On Behalf Of >>> frank >>> >>> Sent: Monday, >>> August 24, >>> 2009 >>> 3:30 >>> PM >>> >>> To: >>> 'General pattern >>> discussion' >>> >>> Subject: >>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Anthony, >>> Jim, Mark , and Others >>> who Responded, >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for >>> your valuable input. >>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is >>> among the very >>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos >>> can't keep up with it. >>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but >>> can't help but >>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure >>> I'll get past my >>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's >>> insight's on that >>> one. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Frank >>> Imbriaco >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 06:05:00 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From pcosky at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 09:33:57 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:33:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 References: Message-ID: Jim, One thing that I got spoiled with on my EVO that I was glad to see on the SD-10G is it has a stick monitor built in which shows the electronic position of the stick, but it gets better on the Airtronics with the recalibration option should you want or need to recalibrate center. Pete -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:47 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 A big thank you to all for this discussion. About a week ago I solicited input on a Futaba system and it was suggested that I also consider the SD-10. I was hoping for more discussion at the time. I looked at an SD-10 in the local hobby shop yesterday and the price is very hard to walk away from and it fit my hands nicely. My thumb resolution isn't what it once was and will likely get worse but I'm now becoming more aware of 'bounce-back' and poor centering likely due to worn (non-BB) stick assemblies and cheap servos. The TX stick assembly centering detents that I've looked at in the past have a spring loaded bar against a flat spot on a round shaft. I've never felt that this offered accurate repeatability for very long. Have there been improvements or changes to mechanical stick centering? In the old days I remember a test device that could be plugged into the receiver that displayed the count relative to stick movement, which was useful for understanding centering repeatability. Am I dreaming or did such a device really exist? Is there something available now? Jim H From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 25 09:48:22 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:48:22 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Neat. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Pete Cosky Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:34 AM To: NSRCA Mailing List Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Jim, One thing that I got spoiled with on my EVO that I was glad to see on the SD-10G is it has a stick monitor built in which shows the electronic position of the stick, but it gets better on the Airtronics with the recalibration option should you want or need to recalibrate center. Pete -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:47 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 A big thank you to all for this discussion. About a week ago I solicited input on a Futaba system and it was suggested that I also consider the SD-10. I was hoping for more discussion at the time. I looked at an SD-10 in the local hobby shop yesterday and the price is very hard to walk away from and it fit my hands nicely. My thumb resolution isn't what it once was and will likely get worse but I'm now becoming more aware of 'bounce-back' and poor centering likely due to worn (non-BB) stick assemblies and cheap servos. The TX stick assembly centering detents that I've looked at in the past have a spring loaded bar against a flat spot on a round shaft. I've never felt that this offered accurate repeatability for very long. Have there been improvements or changes to mechanical stick centering? In the old days I remember a test device that could be plugged into the receiver that displayed the count relative to stick movement, which was useful for understanding centering repeatability. Am I dreaming or did such a device really exist? Is there something available now? Jim H _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 09:56:36 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:56:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Message-ID: <84FA140E6AF94D3281065E25D1F379AA@davedesktop> Top 5 in each group thus far... SOMENZINI USA 978.8 484.8 0 0 494 MAYR AUT 920.6 441.8 0 0 478.8 NORTHEAST CAN 897.6 429.6 0 0 468 DANKSAGMUL AUT 883.6 421.2 0 0 462.4 FREMMING NOR 871.8 415.4 0 0 456.4 BERND GER 1422.6 452.8 496 473.8 0 SUZUKI JPN 1406.6 453.8 485.2 467.6 0 WICKIZER USA 1331.4 418 470.4 443 0 JUN ZHANG CHN 1331 404.4 461.8 464.8 0 BURBAUD FRA 1322.4 416.8 455.2 450.4 0 PAYSANT - LE FRA 1014.2 504.2 510 0 0 SILVESTRI ITA 974.2 469 505.2 0 0 ONDA JPN 972.2 469 503.2 0 0 SHULMAN USA 949.2 459.6 489.6 0 0 PAYSANT - LE FRA 916.4 461.4 455 0 0 AKIBA JPN 1448.6 0 487 490.4 471.2 JESKY USA 1424.2 0 474.4 470 479.8 ZEINER AUT 1394 0 463 480.2 450.8 ROMBAUT ESP 1344.2 0 444.8 448.4 451 BUTUZOV RUS 1329.8 0 432 437.6 460.2 FRA, JPN, AUS, and USA look to be in contention for Gold. For the top guys in each group - - QQ has 3 potential 1000s - Bernd has 1 potential 1000 - CPLR has 4 potential 1000s - Akiba has 2 potential 1000s http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php GO USA!!!! Regards, Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 09:58:55 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:58:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] How many to the Finals ? Re: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: <707838DA-B1E6-4D54-8AF8-58D119915FE2@cox.net> References: <961271.18335.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <893077.59877.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <998633.12785.qm@web112113.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <3454543c0908250706r5b5011fbi80c383890130c30a@mail.gmail.com> <3454543c0908250728n3c42a315m276058eacf5e8437@mail.gmail.com> <707838DA-B1E6-4D54-8AF8-58D119915FE2@cox.net> Message-ID: <3454543c0908251058n5e97fea9mc674e8d892809e87@mail.gmail.com> A few flameouts with glow but whether it was due to the dust... I don't know. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:33 AM, Ronald Van Putte wrote: > I was wondering if any pilots were having motor problems due to the dust. > Electric-powered airplanes should have an advantage if that's the case. > Ron VP > > On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:28 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: > > It is very dusty here, Ron... a very fine dust covers everything and with > the suntan lotion on it sticks to you like... you know what. > > The top 1/3 of pilots but not more than 30 pilots go to the semis - I don't > know why I typed 31 before (I had 33% on my brain and it misfired). The top > 10 then go to the finals. > > On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Ronald Van Putte wrote: > >> To the Finals? Or to the SemiFinals? 31 seems too many for the >> Finals. If I remember the F3A rule book, 20% should go to the Finals. 31 >> to the Finals would mean there are about 155 pilots. Are there that many >> pilots there? >> BTW, where the pilots/supporters are looks very dirty/dusty. >> >> Ron VP >> >> On Aug 25, 2009, at 9:06 AM, Derek Koopowitz wrote: >> >> 31 are going.... >> >> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 4:58 PM, brian young wrote: >> >>> How many go to the finals at the worlds? >>> >>> Brian >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Tue Aug 25 10:03:57 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:03:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores In-Reply-To: References: <3454543c0908250711t74350cc5r88e13fd3be8e1b15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908251103l6dc7abd6r2f1e45ab3ed4331f@mail.gmail.com> Not the case at all - the interpreter gave him the wrong information that was written on the score sheet. On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Jay Marshall wrote: > What!? Judges that don?t know the rules??? > > > > *Jay Marshall* > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Derek Koopowitz > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:12 AM > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > > > Steve, > > One judge was marking a noise penalty due to a misinterpretation in > language. He thought he was marking that the plane was quiet - it has been > corrected. The way the noise penalty is done is that a majority of judges > need to mark the noise box and then a penalty of 10 points is applied per > judge. So on a 5 judge panel, 3 out of 5 need to mark the noise box. > > -Derek > > On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 5:38 PM, wrote: > > Bob, > > > > I noticed on some of the score sheets that a judge would mark a "10" on > the noise line. Is this a penalty and how is it applied? > > > > Steve > > > > In a message dated 8/24/2009 8:34:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > getterflash at yahoo.com writes: > > I believe he is 14th or 15th. These rankings will change somewhat as the > next two days unfold. For those who are interested, the normalized scores > are based on the highest score in a given panel so far. Since half the > scores in each panel are still unflown, it is possible for the perfect > scores to get knocked down. The spreadsheet I built will self correct as I > enter the full panel scores. But I just checked, the scores are no longer > posted, so maybe we won't see any more until Wednesday night. > > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Ryan Smith > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 4:10:40 PM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > Yes he did! > > -------------- Original message from Mark Hunt : > -------------- > > From the looks of things Brett flew well today too...Go Team! > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Bob Kane > *To:* nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 2:42:15 PM > *Subject:* [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores > > Here are the top 10 after today. Keep in mind none of this counts for > beans until all pilots have flown in front of all judging panels, which > should happen by this time on Wednesday. For example, Andrew and Christophe > have yet to fly in front of the same panel. But is still fun. > > > Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total > 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.0000 > 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1961.5232 > 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1953.8462 > 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1938.6991 > 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1929.6564 > 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1920.7747 > 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1916.8531 > 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1904.8799 > 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1891.7513 > 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1871.5430 > > > GO Team ! ! ! ! ! > > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > ------------------------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Tue Aug 25 10:18:00 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:18:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Anybody friends with Robert Hixson? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A942AD5.2070907@canisius.edu> Dave Harmon wrote: > As you can see below....I have had to white list the NSRCA list to get it to > download to this client Outlook. > In fact, now that I think more about it.....there is an option (online) to > have the Yahoo (SBC) spam filters mark and download each email with the word > 'bulk' if it thinks the email is spam. This is the only way I was able to > get all the mail. > As an aside, I made a rule in Outlook to move all mail marked bulk into a > folder just in case the mail is really spam.....there are not many of these > by the way. > Anyway....that's how I have been able to get everything....other lists are > marked as bulk as well but not all lists I watch.....mainly amateur radio > lists are not marked.....except senior pattern list....almost every message > from them is marked bulk. Thanks, Dave. That's a new wrinkle. It's good to know that you can whitelist people and get lists as [bulk]. Marty From trexlesh at msn.com Tue Aug 25 10:27:30 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:27:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B7435@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: Yes there is Jim... Have you looked at the volt meter that Gordon made for me?... it'll do exactly what you are asking. You can also test your servos with it. He has a website... I can't remember the site address right off hand. Rex > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:47:27 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > A big thank you to all for this discussion. About a week ago I solicited > input on a Futaba system and it was suggested that I also consider the > SD-10. I was hoping for more discussion at the time. > I looked at an SD-10 in the local hobby shop yesterday and the price is very > hard to walk away from and it fit my hands nicely. > My thumb resolution isn't what it once was and will likely get worse but I'm > now becoming more aware of 'bounce-back' and poor centering likely due to > worn (non-BB) stick assemblies and cheap servos. > The TX stick assembly centering detents that I've looked at in the past have > a spring loaded bar against a flat spot on a round shaft. I've never felt > that this offered accurate repeatability for very long. Have there been > improvements or changes to mechanical stick centering? > In the old days I remember a test device that could be plugged into the > receiver that displayed the count relative to stick movement, which was > useful for understanding centering repeatability. Am I dreaming or did such > a device really exist? Is there something available now? > Jim H > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:59 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Hey Tony, > > I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying to make > a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a previous post > regarding how the resolution and EPA settings interact, you're explanation > is clearer and is also my understanding. > > I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't "better". The > original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 over 1024" and the answer > from their end was cost and the "opinion" that given the cost choice between > speed and resolution, that speed had a more noticeable impact on most > setups. > > The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more secure by > putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door. You're only as safe > as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking through the door or breaking a > window...the locks are more than adequate and no longer the weak point in > the system. I believe the same is true for resolution, it's no longer the > weak point in the system. > > To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given resolution is > constant. So in your max travel example, which I think is a good one, we're > probably talking about spreading 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at > max. Thus the "step" size for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and > therefore at 1024 it's approx 1/7th of a degree. Regardless of how you dial > down your rates, that will always be the smallest step size. I.e. if you > reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down to > 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of rotation) we > now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 pts across 72degrees > with 1024. In Both cases the step size is still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th > respectively. > > My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx .0012" > movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of inaccuracy in > our setups. Or at least in most people's setups. Getting a setup tighter > than that is hard. Keeping it there is even harder. Servo gear trains have > slop, ball links, clevises (big slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube > all allow for movement in micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given > point. And I won't even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying > glow due to vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot. (I > know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! I'm > working on it!). > > Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing where best > to spend their money to gain the most functionality and advantage in their > flying setups, and in a similar fashion Airtronics did the same. They felt > they were giving the pilot the best bang for the buck by choosing speed over > resolution. I DO think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) > it will likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line > systems. I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. > > This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening to some. > I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though as clearly I have > bias as an Airtronics pilot. I just wanted to try and answer the question. > I'm happy to discuss further off list, or answer other specific questions on > or off list, but for now I'm going to bow out of this thread. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony > Frackowiak > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you > get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the > electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at > 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but > this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some > percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains > 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're > down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there > you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end > up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. > > I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals > to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To > get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator > deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal > flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an > example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine > of a command. > > Hope this isn't too confusing. > > TonyF > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your > > endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 > > or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's > > across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's > > spread across a smaller arc. > > > > We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. > > > > What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are > > improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are > > significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are > > significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to > > improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and > > probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak > > link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even > > a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and > > even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. > > > > Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC > > Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly > > and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not > > smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws > > we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical > > path to more accuracy. > > > > So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the > > resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm > > pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just > > about any other spec I would think. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > > > I'm curious... > > > > How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > > Ronald Van > > Putte > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > > > Geez! I was happy with 512. > > > > Ron VP > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > > > >> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what > >> point you no longet "feel the difference".? > >> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > >> > >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > >> > >>> From: Jay Marshall > >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > >>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > >>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Frank, you > >>> are getting your terms mixed > >>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of > >>> "steps" from one end > >>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as > >>> latency, is the time it > >>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the > >>> servo moves. Actually, > >>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to > >>> move. The two functions > >>> are not dependant upon each other. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> As far as > >>> keeping up, that depends on > >>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which > >>> instantly commands a > >>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get > >>> there, however, will > >>> depend on how fast the servo can move. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Jay Marshall > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original > >>> Message----- > >>> > >>> From: > >>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > >>> On Behalf Of > >>> frank > >>> > >>> Sent: Monday, > >>> August 24, > >>> 2009 > >>> 3:30 > >>> PM > >>> > >>> To: > >>> 'General pattern > >>> discussion' > >>> > >>> Subject: > >>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Anthony, > >>> Jim, Mark , and Others > >>> who Responded, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks for > >>> your valuable input. > >>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is > >>> among the very > >>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos > >>> can't keep up with it. > >>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but > >>> can't help but > >>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure > >>> I'll get past my > >>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's > >>> insight's on that > >>> one. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Frank > >>> Imbriaco > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 > 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Tue Aug 25 10:39:38 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:39:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores, Day 3 Message-ID: <432517.5099.qm@web32706.mail.mud.yahoo.com> They just posted the last of today's scores: Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 3000.0000 1000.0000 1000.0000 0.0000 1000.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 2899.1905 0.0000 954.9020 1000.0000 944.2886 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 2885.9914 930.1864 986.6667 0.0000 969.1383 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 2885.5041 930.1864 990.5882 0.0000 964.7295 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 2883.8033 961.5232 0.0000 932.3002 989.9800 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 2850.1204 0.0000 930.1961 958.4013 961.5230 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 2836.7554 898.0563 972.5490 966.1501 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 2831.0621 911.5430 960.0000 0.0000 959.5190 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 2804.9196 900.0397 951.3725 953.5073 0.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 2790.4506 0.0000 907.8431 979.2007 903.4068 24 MAYR GERHRARD AUT 2785.1877 876.2396 0.0000 949.4290 959.5190 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 2759.1737 915.1131 892.1569 0.0000 951.9038 18 NORTHEAST CHAD CAN 2703.0507 852.0428 0.0000 913.1321 937.8758 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 2702.1831 853.6295 924.7059 0.0000 923.8477 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 2690.8884 880.9996 896.8627 0.0000 913.0261 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 2690.3201 0.0000 872.1569 914.3556 903.8076 1 DANKSAGMULLER HELMUT AUT 2682.5092 835.3828 0.0000 920.4731 926.6533 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 2682.3997 848.0762 915.6863 0.0000 918.6373 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 2661.6361 0.0000 847.0588 892.3328 922.2445 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 2655.3506 802.0627 905.4902 947.7977 0.0000 31 WICKIZER BRETT USA 2654.7332 829.0361 922.3529 903.3442 0.0000 Same disclaimers as yesterday, these don't mean much until the conclusion of tomorrow's flying. Even the "1000" scores could move down, at least in theory. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From duane.e.beck at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 10:40:57 2009 From: duane.e.beck at comcast.net (Duane Beck) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:40:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] MAESTRO [was: SD-10] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1928697271.4071811251225656363.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Is it MAESTRO? http://www.mstar2k.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=13 Duane ----- "Rex" wrote: > From: "Rex" > To: "NSRCA-discussion" > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:27:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Yes there is?Jim...? Have you looked at the volt meter that Gordon > made for me?...? it'll > do exactly what you are asking.? You can also test?your servos with > it.??He has a website... > I can't remember the site address right off hand. > ? > ? > Rex From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 10:49:49 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:49:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC In-Reply-To: <84FA140E6AF94D3281065E25D1F379AA@davedesktop> References: <84FA140E6AF94D3281065E25D1F379AA@davedesktop> Message-ID: <72BFCA052F3D4A95ADB5429B2E2BD0B6@davedesktop> After 3 rounds.. SOMENZINI USA 1436 484.8 0 457.2 494 MAYR AUT 1386.2 441.8 0 465.6 478.8 NORTHEAST CAN 1345.4 429.6 0 447.8 468 DANKSAGMUL AUT 1335 421.2 0 451.4 462.4 FREMMING NOR 1313.8 415.4 0 442 456.4 BERND GER 1422.6 452.8 496 473.8 0 SUZUKI JPN 1406.6 453.8 485.2 467.6 0 WICKIZER USA 1331.4 418 470.4 443 0 JUN ZHANG CHN 1331 404.4 461.8 464.8 0 BURBAUD FRA 1322.4 416.8 455.2 450.4 0 PAYSANT - LE FRA 1513.2 504.2 510 0 499 ONDA JPN 1455.8 469 503.2 0 483.6 SILVESTRI ITA 1455.6 469 505.2 0 481.4 SHULMAN USA 1428 459.6 489.6 0 478.8 PAYSANT - LE FRA 1391.4 461.4 455 0 475 AKIBA JPN 1448.6 0 487 490.4 471.2 JESKY USA 1424.2 0 474.4 470 479.8 ZEINER AUT 1394 0 463 480.2 450.8 ROMBAUT ESP 1344.2 0 444.8 448.4 451 BUTUZOV RUS 1329.8 0 432 437.6 460.2 QQ and Bernd have potential to win 1 round...Akiba 2, and CPLR 4. Regards, Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 1:53 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Top 5 in each group thus far... SOMENZINI USA 978.8 484.8 0 0 494 MAYR AUT 920.6 441.8 0 0 478.8 NORTHEAST CAN 897.6 429.6 0 0 468 DANKSAGMUL AUT 883.6 421.2 0 0 462.4 FREMMING NOR 871.8 415.4 0 0 456.4 BERND GER 1422.6 452.8 496 473.8 0 SUZUKI JPN 1406.6 453.8 485.2 467.6 0 WICKIZER USA 1331.4 418 470.4 443 0 JUN ZHANG CHN 1331 404.4 461.8 464.8 0 BURBAUD FRA 1322.4 416.8 455.2 450.4 0 PAYSANT - LE FRA 1014.2 504.2 510 0 0 SILVESTRI ITA 974.2 469 505.2 0 0 ONDA JPN 972.2 469 503.2 0 0 SHULMAN USA 949.2 459.6 489.6 0 0 PAYSANT - LE FRA 916.4 461.4 455 0 0 AKIBA JPN 1448.6 0 487 490.4 471.2 JESKY USA 1424.2 0 474.4 470 479.8 ZEINER AUT 1394 0 463 480.2 450.8 ROMBAUT ESP 1344.2 0 444.8 448.4 451 BUTUZOV RUS 1329.8 0 432 437.6 460.2 FRA, JPN, AUS, and USA look to be in contention for Gold. For the top guys in each group - - QQ has 3 potential 1000s - Bernd has 1 potential 1000 - CPLR has 4 potential 1000s - Akiba has 2 potential 1000s http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php GO USA!!!! Regards, Dave -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Tue Aug 25 10:54:11 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:54:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] MAESTRO [was: SD-10] In-Reply-To: <1928697271.4071811251225656363.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1928697271.4071811251225656363.JavaMail.root@sz0056a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Ya, that's the site... I just realized it was on my other laptop. It's a really cool little device. Single button operation, multiple battery types, multiple loads.... A few weeks back, I started noticing a twitch on my 14MZ ailerons... After I landed, I plugged the Maestro into the aileron channel and just started to move the gimbal and WHAM!, the readings went nuts. Exactly what was happening in the air.... Check it out, it works great and is all in one little unit. Thanks Duane! Rex > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:40:56 +0000 > From: duane.e.beck at comcast.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] MAESTRO [was: SD-10] > > Is it MAESTRO? > http://www.mstar2k.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=36&Itemid=13 > > Duane > > ----- "Rex" wrote: > > > From: "Rex" > > To: "NSRCA-discussion" > > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:27:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > > > Yes there is Jim... Have you looked at the volt meter that Gordon > > made for me?... it'll > > do exactly what you are asking. You can also test your servos with > > it. He has a website... > > I can't remember the site address right off hand. > > > > > > Rex > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 25 10:57:50 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:57:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC In-Reply-To: <84FA140E6AF94D3281065E25D1F379AA@davedesktop> Message-ID: <688372.41871.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Very good stuff Dave. Question? Is there a carry over from the Prelims to the Semi finals? Also is it fair to say that the Semi's and then the finals seperate the men from the boys? I have heard that some of the top guys excell at the semi's but suffer when the harder manuevers come into play. Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. Mike Mueller --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Dave wrote: > From: Dave > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 12:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Top 5 in each > group thus far?.. > > > ? > > SOMENZINI?????? > USA ???? 978.8??? > 484.8??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 494 > > MAYR?? > ??????????? > AUT????? 920.6??? > 441.8??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 478.8 > > NORTHEAST???? > CAN???? 897.6??? > 429.6??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 468 > > DANKSAGMUL > AUT????? 883.6??? > 421.2??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 462.4 > > FREMMING?????? > NOR???? 871.8??? > 415.4??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 456.4 > > > ? > > > ? > > BERND > GER???? 1422.6? > 452.8??? > 496?????? > 473.8??? 0 > > SUZUKI > JPN????? 1406.6? > 453.8??? 485.2??? > 467.6??? 0 > > WICKIZER???????? > USA ???? 1331.4? > 418?????? > 470.4??? > 443?????? 0 > > JUN > ZHANG????? > CHN???? 1331???? > 404.4??? 461.8??? > 464.8??? 0 > > BURBAUD??????? > FRA????? 1322.4? > 416.8??? 455.2??? > 450.4??? 0 > > > ? > > > ? > > PAYSANT - > LE? FRA????? 1014.2? > 504.2??? > 510?????? > 0????????? > 0 > > SILVESTRI??????? > ITA?????? > 974.2??? > 469?????? > 505.2??? > 0????????? > 0 > > ONDA?? > ??????????? > JPN????? 972.2??? > 469?????? > 503.2??? > 0????????? > 0 > > SHULMAN??????? > USA ???? 949.2??? > 459.6??? 489.6??? > 0????????? > 0 > > PAYSANT - LE > FRA????? 916.4??? > 461.4??? > 455?????? > 0????????? > 0 > > > ? > > > ? > > AKIBA? > ??????????? > JPN????? 1448.6? > 0????????? > 487?????? > 490.4??? 471.2 > > JESKY? > ??????????? > USA ???? 1424.2? > 0????????? > 474.4??? > 470?????? > 479.8 > > ZEINER > AUT????? > 1394???? > 0????????? > 463?????? > 480.2??? 450.8 > > ROMBAUT??????? > ESP???? 1344.2? > 0????????? > 444.8??? 448.4??? > 451 > > BUTUZOV???????? > RUS???? 1329.8? > 0????????? > 432?????? > 437.6??? 460.2 > > > ? > > FRA, JPN, AUS, > and > USA look to be in contention for > Gold. > > > ? > > For the top guys > in each group - > > - QQ has 3 > potential 1000s > > - Bernd has 1 > potential 1000 > > - CPLR has 4 > potential 1000s > > - Akiba has 2 > potential 1000s > > > ? > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php > > > > ? > > GO > USA!!!! > > > ? > > Regards, > > > > > Dave > > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lkrutz89503 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 25 10:59:32 2009 From: lkrutz89503 at yahoo.com (Larry Krutz) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:59:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <9009725534D74F6CB1BA03094F71C1AD@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <744810.37114.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum have conversion packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? (Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- Larry --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can?t > speak to JR, but the plug-in > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > problem is that if you use > a tray it will probably have to be > modified. > > ? > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > > Sent: > Tuesday, August 25, > 2009 > 10:32 > AM > > To: > General pattern > discussion > > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Digital Pug-In module > > ? > > > > All: > > > > > > > I bought from > a pattern fllyer, a JR > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency > synthesizer,? > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use > this transmitter > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > However, a > good friend of mine > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 > Gig.? I know > that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even > though I've been satisfied > with the older system. > > > > > > However, (and > this is where my doubt > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > module, because, it's a basically a converter, and > because the entire system > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he > doubts the plug-in > module's reliability or safety of flight."? > > > > > > > Any advice > will be appreciated. > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Bill > Glaze > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 25 11:19:16 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:19:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <744810.37114.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <835411.40102.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have one of the Spektrum modules for Futaba in my 12Z. Yes it's a good deal and they work fine but the one that?I have gets its signal through the trainer port?NOT the RF module connector. This means there's an additional wire dangling out the back and you're going through the analog trainer port. The 9c module may be different so check that before you make a decision. The other thing is the antenna connector + wire + adapter. It's kind of a cob job. It works but it aint pretty. I did see a nice screw-on 2.4 GHz antenna somewhere but?I can't remember where. That would clean things up considerably. ? John Pavlick --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Larry Krutz wrote: From: Larry Krutz Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:59 PM I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum have conversion packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? (Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- Larry --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > >? > > >? > > > > > > > >? > > > > Can?t > speak to JR, but the plug-in > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > problem is that if you use > a tray it will probably have to be > modified. > > ? > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > > Sent: > Tuesday, August 25, > 2009 > 10:32 > AM > > To: > General pattern >? discussion > > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Digital Pug-In module > > ? > > > > All: > > > > > > > I bought from > a pattern fllyer, a JR > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency > synthesizer,? > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use > this transmitter > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > However, a > good friend of mine > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 > Gig.? I know > that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even > though I've been satisfied > with the older system. > > > > > > However, (and > this is where my doubt > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > module, because, it's a basically a converter, and > because the entire system > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he > doubts the plug-in > module's reliability or safety of flight."? > > > > > > > Any advice > will be appreciated. > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Bill > Glaze > > > > > >? > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Tue Aug 25 11:21:34 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:21:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great Rex. I'll bring another receiver to Creswell and we can see what it looks like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:27 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Yes there is Jim... Have you looked at the volt meter that Gordon made for me?... it'll do exactly what you are asking. You can also test your servos with it. He has a website... I can't remember the site address right off hand. Rex > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:47:27 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > A big thank you to all for this discussion. About a week ago I solicited > input on a Futaba system and it was suggested that I also consider the > SD-10. I was hoping for more discussion at the time. > I looked at an SD-10 in the local hobby shop yesterday and the price is very > hard to walk away from and it fit my hands nicely. > My thumb resolution isn't what it once was and will likely get worse but I'm > now becoming more aware of 'bounce-back' and poor centering likely due to > worn (non-BB) stick assemblies and cheap servos. > The TX stick assembly centering detents that I've looked at in the past have > a spring loaded bar against a flat spot on a round shaft. I've never felt > that this offered accurate repeatability for very long. Have there been > improvements or changes to mechanical stick centering? > In the old days I remember a test device that could be plugged into the > receiver that displayed the count relative to stick movement, which was > useful for understanding centering repeatability. Am I dreaming or did such > a device really exist? Is there something available now? > Jim H > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:59 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Hey Tony, > > I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying to make > a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a previous post > regarding how the resolution and EPA settings interact, you're explanation > is clearer and is also my understanding. > > I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't "better". The > original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 over 1024" and the answer > from their end was cost and the "opinion" that given the cost choice between > speed and resolution, that speed had a more noticeable impact on most > setups. > > The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more secure by > putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door. You're only as safe > as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking through the door or breaking a > window...the locks are more than adequate and no longer the weak point in > the system. I believe the same is true for resolution, it's no longer the > weak point in the system. > > To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given resolution is > constant. So in your max travel example, which I think is a good one, we're > probably talking about spreading 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at > max. Thus the "step" size for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and > therefore at 1024 it's approx 1/7th of a degree. Regardless of how you dial > down your rates, that will always be the smallest step size. I.e. if you > reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down to > 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of rotation) we > now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 pts across 72degrees > with 1024. In Both cases the step size is still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th > respectively. > > My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx .0012" > movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of inaccuracy in > our setups. Or at least in most people's setups. Getting a setup tighter > than that is hard. Keeping it there is even harder. Servo gear trains have > slop, ball links, clevises (big slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube > all allow for movement in micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given > point. And I won't even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying > glow due to vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot. (I > know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! I'm > working on it!). > > Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing where best > to spend their money to gain the most functionality and advantage in their > flying setups, and in a similar fashion Airtronics did the same. They felt > they were giving the pilot the best bang for the buck by choosing speed over > resolution. I DO think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) > it will likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line > systems. I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. > > This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening to some. > I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though as clearly I have > bias as an Airtronics pilot. I just wanted to try and answer the question. > I'm happy to discuss further off list, or answer other specific questions on > or off list, but for now I'm going to bow out of this thread. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony > Frackowiak > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you > get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the > electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at > 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but > this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some > percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains > 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're > down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there > you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end > up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. > > I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals > to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To > get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator > deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal > flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an > example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine > of a command. > > Hope this isn't too confusing. > > TonyF > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your > > endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 > > or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's > > across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's > > spread across a smaller arc. > > > > We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. > > > > What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are > > improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are > > significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are > > significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to > > improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and > > probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak > > link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even > > a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and > > even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. > > > > Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC > > Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly > > and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not > > smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws > > we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical > > path to more accuracy. > > > > So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the > > resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm > > pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just > > about any other spec I would think. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > > > I'm curious... > > > > How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > > Ronald Van > > Putte > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > > > Geez! I was happy with 512. > > > > Ron VP > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > > > >> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what > >> point you no longet "feel the difference".? > >> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > >> > >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > >> > >>> From: Jay Marshall > >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > >>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > >>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Frank, you > >>> are getting your terms mixed > >>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of > >>> "steps" from one end > >>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as > >>> latency, is the time it > >>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the > >>> servo moves. Actually, > >>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to > >>> move. The two functions > >>> are not dependant upon each other. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> As far as > >>> keeping up, that depends on > >>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which > >>> instantly commands a > >>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get > >>> there, however, will > >>> depend on how fast the servo can move. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Jay Marshall > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original > >>> Message----- > >>> > >>> From: > >>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > >>> On Behalf Of > >>> frank > >>> > >>> Sent: Monday, > >>> August 24, > >>> 2009 > >>> 3:30 > >>> PM > >>> > >>> To: > >>> 'General pattern > >>> discussion' > >>> > >>> Subject: > >>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Anthony, > >>> Jim, Mark , and Others > >>> who Responded, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks for > >>> your valuable input. > >>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is > >>> among the very > >>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos > >>> can't keep up with it. > >>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but > >>> can't help but > >>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure > >>> I'll get past my > >>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's > >>> insight's on that > >>> one. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Frank > >>> Imbriaco > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 > 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Tue Aug 25 11:23:36 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:23:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB873@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <293743.85922.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> To say the 1024 is good enough, well, that answer isn't good enough. :-)? The problem is that ANY error in position, whether linkage slop, servo resolution, etc, can be cumulative. I suspect that for pattern applications, 1024 is adequate. However, for guys that have IMAC planes that also do 3D freestyle with the same plane, 2048 might be better, but it really only matters when the stick is around neutral. Once you deflect the stick I don't think anyone can tell the difference between 2048 or 1024, or even 256 (yes, I had a radio with 256 resolution once -- sucked!!). ? Bob R. --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: Do you really think its the improvement in resolution and not the improvement in speed between the two systems?? I'm sure I don't have tight enough linkages to take advantage of 2048. I'm not sure they're tight enough to detect 1024. That would require less than .001" slop.???.0005" for 2048.? I pushed hard for 2048 because of all the "buzz" but after doing the math realized that no other part of my equipment has that level of accuracy.? To be fair, I don't run the MK ball bearing? linkages though. I'm inclined to agree that were getting speed in excess of our ability to discern, though I'm guessing that the responsiveness of a full scale jet is less than that of a 3D Heli. I think a LOT of this is similar to the old distortion specs for stereo equipment prior to CDs.? Early CD players would boast signal to noise ratio's better than their competition even though even the cheapest units far exceeded the level of human hearing. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Tue Aug 25 11:30:58 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:30:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Groovey! From: jnhiller at earthlink.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 12:22:23 -0700 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Great Rex. I'll bring another receiver to Creswell and we can see what it looks like. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Rex Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 11:27 AM To: NSRCA-discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Yes there is Jim... Have you looked at the volt meter that Gordon made for me?... it'll do exactly what you are asking. You can also test your servos with it. He has a website... I can't remember the site address right off hand. Rex > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 09:47:27 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > A big thank you to all for this discussion. About a week ago I solicited > input on a Futaba system and it was suggested that I also consider the > SD-10. I was hoping for more discussion at the time. > I looked at an SD-10 in the local hobby shop yesterday and the price is very > hard to walk away from and it fit my hands nicely. > My thumb resolution isn't what it once was and will likely get worse but I'm > now becoming more aware of 'bounce-back' and poor centering likely due to > worn (non-BB) stick assemblies and cheap servos. > The TX stick assembly centering detents that I've looked at in the past have > a spring loaded bar against a flat spot on a round shaft. I've never felt > that this offered accurate repeatability for very long. Have there been > improvements or changes to mechanical stick centering? > In the old days I remember a test device that could be plugged into the > receiver that displayed the count relative to stick movement, which was > useful for understanding centering repeatability. Am I dreaming or did such > a device really exist? Is there something available now? > Jim H > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Atwood, Mark > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:59 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > Hey Tony, > > I don't disagree with your math or understanding, though I'm trying to make > a slightly different point I think. I also misspoke in a previous post > regarding how the resolution and EPA settings interact, you're explanation > is clearer and is also my understanding. > > I also want to state that I'm not advocating that 2048 isn't "better". The > original question was "Why didn't ATX choose 2048 over 1024" and the answer > from their end was cost and the "opinion" that given the cost choice between > speed and resolution, that speed had a more noticeable impact on most > setups. > > The point I want to express is analogous to making your house more secure by > putting 4 giant deadbolt locks...on a hollow core door. You're only as safe > as your weakest point of entry. Be it kicking through the door or breaking a > window...the locks are more than adequate and no longer the weak point in > the system. I believe the same is true for resolution, it's no longer the > weak point in the system. > > To follow your math/understanding, the "step" size for a given resolution is > constant. So in your max travel example, which I think is a good one, we're > probably talking about spreading 1024/2048 across 135 degrees of throw at > max. Thus the "step" size for 2048 is approx 1/15 of a degree, and > therefore at 1024 it's approx 1/7th of a degree. Regardless of how you dial > down your rates, that will always be the smallest step size. I.e. if you > reduce rates as you suggested, reducing EPA to 100% from 150% (down to > 90degrees) and D/R down to 80% from 100% (down to 72degrees of rotation) we > now have 1080 pts across 72degrees with 2048, or 540 pts across 72degrees > with 1024. In Both cases the step size is still 1/15 of a degree or 1/7th > respectively. > > My assertion is simply that 1/7th of a degree of resolution (approx .0012" > movement on a 1" servo wheel) is smaller than other area's of inaccuracy in > our setups. Or at least in most people's setups. Getting a setup tighter > than that is hard. Keeping it there is even harder. Servo gear trains have > slop, ball links, clevises (big slop), wing adjusters, even the wing tube > all allow for movement in micro amounts that ruin our accuracy at a given > point. And I won't even mention the variance in deflection if you're flying > glow due to vibration which I'm sure makes this whole conversation moot. (I > know I know...I need to convert to Electric...you keep telling me! I'm > working on it!). > > Anyhow, I hope you understand my perspective. People are choosing where best > to spend their money to gain the most functionality and advantage in their > flying setups, and in a similar fashion Airtronics did the same. They felt > they were giving the pilot the best bang for the buck by choosing speed over > resolution. I DO think when they complete their flagship radio (a ways out) > it will likely be 2048 so as to be comparable with the other top of the line > systems. I'm also pretty sure it won't be $500 though. > > This has been a great discussion though and hopefully enlightening to some. > I did not mean for it to be a brand war on features though as clearly I have > bias as an Airtronics pilot. I just wanted to try and answer the question. > I'm happy to discuss further off list, or answer other specific questions on > or off list, but for now I'm going to bow out of this thread. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Anthony > Frackowiak > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 12:55 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you > get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the > electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at > 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but > this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some > percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains > 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're > down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there > you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end > up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. > > I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals > to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To > get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator > deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal > flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an > example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine > of a command. > > Hope this isn't too confusing. > > TonyF > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 8:14 PM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > The resolution is for the full throw of the servo. If you bump your > > endpoints up to 150% and have 135deg of travel, you have 512 / 1024 > > or 2048 individual points in between. At a normal 100% that's > > across 90degs of throw. If you dial your endpoints down, it's > > spread across a smaller arc. > > > > We're talking about extremely fine movement even at 512 resolution. > > > > What's nice is that all the components of the Accuracy "system" are > > improving together. The pots in the new radios (all brands) are > > significantly more accurate, the digital servos of all brands are > > significantly more accurate, and our linkage systems continue to > > improve as well. My argument was simply that after 1024 (and > > probably lower actually), the resolution is probably not the "weak > > link" in the accuracy chain. We have too much slop elsewhere. Even > > a tight servo has some lash, as do the connections to the servo and > > even movement of the control surface on the hingeline. > > > > Admittedly though, On a LARGE control surface like a 40% IMAC > > Rudder, you can still see the surface "Step" if you move it slowly > > and watch carefully even with 1024. So to say that 2048 is not > > smoother would be foolish. But on our pattern planes and the throws > > we use, the other sources of error take resolution off the critical > > path to more accuracy. > > > > So to slightly change the topic, how do we get spec's on the > > resolution/accuracy of the servos? Does anyone publish that? (I'm > > pretty sure Atx doesn't). That would be as important than just > > about any other spec I would think. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > ] On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 10:31 PM > > To: 'General pattern discussion' > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > > > I'm curious... > > > > How many degree of servo throw for 1024/2048 are we talking? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > > Ronald Van > > Putte > > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:34 PM > > To: General pattern discussion > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > > > > Geez! I was happy with 512. > > > > Ron VP > > > > On Aug 24, 2009, at 3:13 PM, mike mueller wrote: > > > >> So a 2048 is smoother than a 1024 by double. I wonder at what > >> point you no longet "feel the difference".? > >> For me it could be as soon as tomorrow. M2 > >> > >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > >> > >>> From: Jay Marshall > >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > >>> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >>> discussion at lists.nsrca.org> > >>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 3:05 PM > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Frank, you > >>> are getting your terms mixed > >>> up. The 1024 & 2048 refer to the number of > >>> "steps" from one end > >>> of the stick movement to the other. The speed, known as > >>> latency, is the time it > >>> takes from the instant you change the stick to the time the > >>> servo moves. Actually, > >>> it is the time until the servo receives the command to > >>> move. The two functions > >>> are not dependant upon each other. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> As far as > >>> keeping up, that depends on > >>> servo speed. It is possible to have a switch change which > >>> instantly commands a > >>> function from low to high, for example. The time to get > >>> there, however, will > >>> depend on how fast the servo can move. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Jay Marshall > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original > >>> Message----- > >>> > >>> From: > >>> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > >>> On Behalf Of > >>> frank > >>> > >>> Sent: Monday, > >>> August 24, > >>> 2009 > >>> 3:30 > >>> PM > >>> > >>> To: > >>> 'General pattern > >>> discussion' > >>> > >>> Subject: > >>> [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi Anthony, > >>> Jim, Mark , and Others > >>> who Responded, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks for > >>> your valuable input. > >>> I've read that this radio's resolution is or is > >>> among the very > >>> fastest; so much so that even digital servos > >>> can't keep up with it. > >>> I understand that the system is 1024 , but > >>> can't help but > >>> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure > >>> I'll get past my > >>> hangup, but would appreciate everyone's > >>> insight's on that > >>> one. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Frank > >>> Imbriaco > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: > > 08/20/09 06:05:00 > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/20/09 > 06:05:00 > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 11:40:16 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:40:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <835411.40102.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <828663.59474.qm@web83902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> John, Some people use 2.4Ghz wireless router antenna on the module. That way, you don't have to worry about the antenna wire on the back. Much better installation? I don't know since, I use the module as is. So far, I've sold dozens of Spektrum modules for Futaba 7U, 8U, 9C/Z. None for the higher end TX other than the Futaba module sets. I posted some pictures at RCU on 9Z installation of Spektrum Module. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6337454/anchors_6916950/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#6916950 9C is relatively simple also. Ihncheol --- On Tue, 8/25/09, John Pavlick wrote: > From: John Pavlick > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:19 PM > I > have one of the Spektrum modules for Futaba in my 12Z. Yes > it's a good deal and they work fine but the one > that?I have gets its signal through the trainer > port?NOT the RF module connector. This means > there's an additional wire dangling out the back and > you're going through the analog trainer port. The 9c > module may be different so check that before you make a > decision. The other thing is the antenna connector + wire + > adapter. It's kind of a cob job. It works but it aint > pretty. I did see a nice screw-on 2.4 GHz antenna somewhere > but?I can't remember where. That would clean things > up considerably. > ? > John Pavlick > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Larry Krutz > wrote: > > > From: Larry Krutz > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 2:59 PM > > > I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 > MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum have conversion > packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? > (Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- > Larry > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall > wrote: > > > From: Jay Marshall > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > Can?t > > speak to JR, but the plug-in > > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > > problem is that if you use > > a tray it will probably have to be > > modified. > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of > Bill Glaze > > > > Sent: > > Tuesday, August 25, > > 2009 > > 10:32 > > AM > > > > To: > > General pattern > >? discussion > > > > Subject: > > [NSRCA-discussion] > > Digital Pug-In module > > > > ? > > > > > > > > All: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought from > > a pattern fllyer, a JR > > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a > frequency > > synthesizer,? > > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I > might use > > this transmitter > > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, a > > good friend of mine > > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to > 2.4 > > Gig.? I know > > that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even > > though I've been satisfied > > with the older system. > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, (and > > this is where my doubt > > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > > module, because, it's a basically a converter, > and > > because the entire system > > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin > with, he > > doubts the plug-in > > module's reliability or safety of > flight."? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice > > will be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > Glaze > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From bob at toprudder.com Tue Aug 25 11:41:55 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:41:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <5BAFE731-E484-4382-82CD-50B271BF1FF2@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <445491.43815.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Great stuff, Tony. ? Here is a link to a column I wrote in the Kfactor a while back. It talks about the 1024 resolution on a Futaba radio. Very similar to what you just said. ? Bob R. --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Anthony Frackowiak wrote: I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine of a command. Hope this isn't too confusing. TonyF -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Tue Aug 25 11:51:21 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:51:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores, Day 3 Message-ID: <454238.24988.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Try this again, I sent this well over an hour ago . . . . . Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Bob Kane To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:39:36 PM Subject: Bob's Highly Unofficial Worlds Scores, Day 3 They just posted the last of today's scores: Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Equalized Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 3000.0000 1000.0000 1000.0000 0.0000 1000.0000 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 2899.1905 0.0000 954.9020 1000.0000 944.2886 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 2885.9914 930.1864 986.6667 0.0000 969.1383 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 2885.5041 930.1864 990.5882 0.0000 964.7295 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 2883.8033 961.5232 0.0000 932.3002 989.9800 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 2850.1204 0.0000 930.1961 958.4013 961.5230 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 2836.7554 898.0563 972.5490 966.1501 0.0000 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 2831.0621 911.5430 960.0000 0.0000 959.5190 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 2804.9196 900.0397 951.3725 953.5073 0.0000 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 2790.4506 0.0000 907.8431 979.2007 903.4068 24 MAYR GERHRARD AUT 2785.1877 876.2396 0.0000 949.4290 959.5190 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 2759.1737 915.1131 892.1569 0.0000 951.9038 18 NORTHEAST CHAD CAN 2703.0507 852.0428 0.0000 913.1321 937.8758 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 2702.1831 853.6295 924.7059 0.0000 923.8477 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 2690.8884 880.9996 896.8627 0.0000 913.0261 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 2690.3201 0.0000 872.1569 914.3556 903.8076 1 DANKSAGMULLER HELMUT AUT 2682.5092 835.3828 0.0000 920.4731 926.6533 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 2682.3997 848.0762 915.6863 0.0000 918.6373 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 2661.6361 0.0000 847.0588 892.3328 922.2445 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 2655.3506 802.0627 905.4902 947.7977 0.0000 31 WICKIZER BRETT USA 2654.7332 829.0361 922.3529 903.3442 0.0000 Same disclaimers as yesterday, these don't mean much until the conclusion of tomorrow's flying. Even the "1000" scores could move down, at least in theory. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 11:54:14 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:54:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <744810.37114.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <592632.71845.qm@web83902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Larry, Both works just fine. Spektrum has DM8 module (8channel capability) on both 7 and 9channel packages. Only difference is the receiver. Futaba offers 7 and 8 channel modules for 9C/8U/7U both sets have their own 7 and 8ch receivers. If you go with 7ch module (TM7), you will have 7 channel capability. 8 channel with TM8. Lots of people complained about Futaba/GP having the module sets at high prices. Another thing was why make TM7 and TM8. Futaba could just use TM8 and package it with different receivers. Still very high prices on FASST, but some still buy them. Ihncheol --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Larry Krutz wrote: > From: Larry Krutz > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 1:59 PM > I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 > MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum have conversion > packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? > (Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- > Larry > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall > wrote: > > > From: Jay Marshall > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > Can?t > > speak to JR, but the plug-in > > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > > problem is that if you use > > a tray it will probably have to be > > modified. > > > > ? > > > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > > > > Sent: > > Tuesday, August 25, > > 2009 > > 10:32 > > AM > > > > To: > > General pattern > >? discussion > > > > Subject: > > [NSRCA-discussion] > > Digital Pug-In module > > > > ? > > > > > > > > All: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought from > > a pattern fllyer, a JR > > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a > frequency > > synthesizer,? > > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I > might use > > this transmitter > > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, a > > good friend of mine > > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to > 2.4 > > Gig.? I know > > that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even > > though I've been satisfied > > with the older system. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, (and > > this is where my doubt > > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > > module, because, it's a basically a converter, and > > because the entire system > > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, > he > > doubts the plug-in > > module's reliability or safety of flight."? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice > > will be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > Glaze > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 12:02:18 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:02:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <958741.8283.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <958741.8283.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5C8134F2-1742-4284-A20B-FE79BD809100@sbcglobal.net> Measuring the latency has already been done by the heli groups. I fly a fair amount of heli also and follow the heli forums. I don't really remember the results as I do believe it is all down in the noise anyway. But I'm sure if you did a search on RunRyder or HeliFreak you can find the info. Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 8:14 AM, John Pavlick wrote: > Yes I understand that. I guess I oversimplified a bit. I was > assuming that their tradeoff decision took into account the frame > rate of the data. As you know, you can get more bits at a slower > frame rate or have a higher frame rate with less bits - given a > fixed bandwidth. As all servos are now pretty fast, it would seem > that increasing the frame rate would work in your favor AND make the > control system more responsive, especially in a Pattern setup. A > "fast" servo that is being updated with a position signal at a > "slow" rate is not a good thing. > > I remember when PCM was becoming popular, a few guys took some > measurements of the different systems (Futaba, JR, etc.) comparing > frame rate, resolution, latency, etc.. This was really interesting > stuff. Now that we have 2048 resolution and 2.4GHz systems in > widespread use, I think it's time we did this again. :) > > John Pavlick > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Anthony Frackowiak > wrote: > > From: Anthony Frackowiak > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 > To: jpavlick at idseng.com, "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 10:12 AM > > Some good points, but I must correct a misconception. There is > system "latency" and then there is servo speed. These are two > different things. Reduced latency does not make the servo faster. It > only very slightly reduces the time between stick movement and when > the servo begins to move. It doesn't make full travel servo speed > any faster. This is a subtle point but an important one in this > discussion. > > Also, when I want my control throws measured properly I never use > the hanging weight devices. They are not accurate enough. I use a 7" > protractor and pointers on the surfaces. This is much better and > lets me detect even a single digit of travel adjust. > > I still feel that improved resolution is better for pattern flying > then a slight decrease in system latency. But that is just my opinion! > > Tony > > > On Aug 25, 2009, at 6:40 AM, John Pavlick wrote: > >> Good point Jay. Remember, no matter WHAT people say (or would like >> to have us believe), we live in an analog world. Trying to digitize >> an "analog" motion is best accomplished with the largest number of >> bits that bandwidth (and memory) allows. But there's more to our >> control systems than meets the eye. >> >> One thing to keep in mind is that Pattern setups are almost totally >> opposite from "3D" setups. Pattern strives for maximum control >> precision with the least amount of surface travel whereas "3D" does >> the opposite. What this means is that our linkages are configured >> to give the servo maximum mechanical advantage. This is like >> putting a transmission in low gear. You have lots of torque but not >> a lot of speed. It also means that the "resolution" of the control >> system (meaning servos and encoding process) does not play as large >> a part in the total positioning accuracy as it does with a "3D" >> setup. Not that high-resolution numbers are "bad" - they're >> certainly not, but in a Pattern setup they're not as important as >> you might think. If the servo has a 3:1 mechanical advantage over >> the control surface (as opposed to a "3D" setup which may be close >> to 1:1) then a 1 degree "error" at the servo only gives us .3 >> degrees at the control surface. Can you even measure that with one >> of the "standard" weighted-pendulum deflection gages? On the other >> hand a "slow" servo will become very noticeable in this case. When >> the servo must rotate to it's extremes while only moving the >> control surface a slight amount, it will take a noticeably long >> time if the servo is slow. When you look at the mechanics in detail >> it becomes apparent that a good Pattern control system could >> actually compromise on "resolution" and instead look to improve the >> "speed" + "response". So maybe the Airtronics Engineers hit the >> nail on the head. I'm sure if you told them to build the BEST >> control system possible they would throw in 2048 resolution if they >> could, but in this case they had to make a decision and it looks to >> me like they made the right one. As long as you're a Pattern pilot >> anyway. :) >> >> John Pavlick >> >> >> --- On Mon, 8/24/09, Jay Marshall wrote: >> >> From: Jay Marshall >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:58 PM >> >> A liner, non-digital system such as PPM, has infinite resolution and >> therefore the ultimate "smoothness". I agree, however, that you >> probably >> can't "feel" a 1/2048 digital step. I suspect that the major >> improvements >> have been in less latency. >> >> Jay Marshall >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of >> Atwood, Mark >> Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:19 PM >> To: 'nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org' >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> I'll take a stab, and I'm blind copying Mike Greensheilds (don't feel >> comfortable putting his email out on the list) who is the product >> manager >> for ATX here in the states. He may chime in with additional >> background. >> >> My understanding is that when Sanwa was evaluating speed vs >> resolution, >> speed was deemed a much more critical factor. 1024 resolution is >> already to >> the limits of our ability to "feel" any difference where as the >> speed/latency was much more noticable. Cost does come into the >> equation >> such that for a $500 radio, they couldn't do both. >> >> 1024 resolution provides better than 1/10deg at 90 deg of >> rotation. That's >> less than 1/1000" on a 1" servo wheel. >> >> The speed on the other hand is just now approaching our limits of >> "feel". >> The faster systems clearly feel more connected and are noticable >> when flying >> Snaps and other rapid input maneuvers and especially flying 3D with >> the >> helis. >> >> So the choice was to invest in a fast response system with 1024 >> resolution. >> >> >> Does anyone know the tolerances of our servo accuracy? I'd be >> curious to >> know how high a resolution they can accurately replicate. >> >> Mike? Any input from the source? >> >> -Mark >> -------------------------- >> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> >> To: 'General pattern discussion' >> Sent: Mon Aug 24 15:30:03 2009 >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 >> >> Hi Anthony, Jim, Mark , and Others who Responded, >> >> >> >> Thanks for your valuable input. I've read that this radio's >> resolution is or >> is among the very fastest; so much so that even digital servos >> can't keep >> up with it. I understand that the system is 1024 , but can't help >> but >> wonder why it isn't 2048. I'm sure I'll get past my hangup, but >> would >> appreciate everyone's insight's on that one. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Frank Imbriaco >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frackowiak at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 12:08:33 2009 From: frackowiak at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Frackowiak) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:08:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC In-Reply-To: <688372.41871.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <688372.41871.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Same as at the Nats. The semi-finals use a carryover from qualifying. In the Finals they start fresh. My guess is that all the top people in qualifying will do well flying the finals pattern in the semi-finals. Now how they will do with the unknowns in the finals is another question, but the top will fly it well. Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 11:57 AM, mike mueller wrote: > Very good stuff Dave. Question? Is there a carry over from the > Prelims to the Semi finals? Also is it fair to say that the Semi's > and then the finals seperate the men from the boys? I have heard > that some of the top guys excell at the semi's but suffer when the > harder manuevers come into play. Just wondering if anyone else has > heard of this. Mike Mueller > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Dave wrote: > >> From: Dave >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC >> To: "'General pattern discussion'" >> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 12:52 PM >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Top 5 in each >> group thus far?.. >> >> >> >> >> SOMENZINI >> USA 978.8 >> 484.8 >> 0 >> 0 >> 494 >> >> MAYR >> >> AUT 920.6 >> 441.8 >> 0 >> 0 >> 478.8 >> >> NORTHEAST >> CAN 897.6 >> 429.6 >> 0 >> 0 >> 468 >> >> DANKSAGMUL >> AUT 883.6 >> 421.2 >> 0 >> 0 >> 462.4 >> >> FREMMING >> NOR 871.8 >> 415.4 >> 0 >> 0 >> 456.4 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> BERND >> GER 1422.6 >> 452.8 >> 496 >> 473.8 0 >> >> SUZUKI >> JPN 1406.6 >> 453.8 485.2 >> 467.6 0 >> >> WICKIZER >> USA 1331.4 >> 418 >> 470.4 >> 443 0 >> >> JUN >> ZHANG >> CHN 1331 >> 404.4 461.8 >> 464.8 0 >> >> BURBAUD >> FRA 1322.4 >> 416.8 455.2 >> 450.4 0 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> PAYSANT - >> LE FRA 1014.2 >> 504.2 >> 510 >> 0 >> 0 >> >> SILVESTRI >> ITA >> 974.2 >> 469 >> 505.2 >> 0 >> 0 >> >> ONDA >> >> JPN 972.2 >> 469 >> 503.2 >> 0 >> 0 >> >> SHULMAN >> USA 949.2 >> 459.6 489.6 >> 0 >> 0 >> >> PAYSANT - LE >> FRA 916.4 >> 461.4 >> 455 >> 0 >> 0 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> AKIBA >> >> JPN 1448.6 >> 0 >> 487 >> 490.4 471.2 >> >> JESKY >> >> USA 1424.2 >> 0 >> 474.4 >> 470 >> 479.8 >> >> ZEINER >> AUT >> 1394 >> 0 >> 463 >> 480.2 450.8 >> >> ROMBAUT >> ESP 1344.2 >> 0 >> 444.8 448.4 >> 451 >> >> BUTUZOV >> RUS 1329.8 >> 0 >> 432 >> 437.6 460.2 >> >> >> >> >> FRA, JPN, AUS, >> and >> USA look to be in contention for >> Gold. >> >> >> >> >> For the top guys >> in each group - >> >> - QQ has 3 >> potential 1000s >> >> - Bernd has 1 >> potential 1000 >> >> - CPLR has 4 >> potential 1000s >> >> - Akiba has 2 >> potential 1000s >> >> >> >> >> http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php >> >> >> >> >> >> GO >> USA!!!! >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 25 12:14:56 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:14:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <744810.37114.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1959CBB373E9434FB4F41AF8C08722AE@jaysdesktop> The technology is different. Futaba is pure spread spectrum and Spektrum is dual frequency diversity. Probably isn't any difference to the non-engineer and both work very well. A slight advantage to the Spektrum is the number of Bind-And-Fly models that Horizon is putting out. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Larry Krutz Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum have conversion packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? (Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- Larry --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can?t > speak to JR, but the plug-in > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > problem is that if you use > a tray it will probably have to be > modified. > > ? > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > > Sent: > Tuesday, August 25, > 2009 > 10:32 > AM > > To: > General pattern > discussion > > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Digital Pug-In module > > ? > > > > All: > > > > > > > I bought from > a pattern fllyer, a JR > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency > synthesizer,? > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use > this transmitter > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > However, a > good friend of mine > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 > Gig.? I know > that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even > though I've been satisfied > with the older system. > > > > > > However, (and > this is where my doubt > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > module, because, it's a basically a converter, and > because the entire system > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he > doubts the plug-in > module's reliability or safety of flight."? > > > > > > > Any advice > will be appreciated. > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Bill > Glaze > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From scott at rcfoamy.com Tue Aug 25 12:51:18 2009 From: scott at rcfoamy.com (scott anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:51:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: D3 Knoxville Contest Message-ID: <4978AB610B7A4A91B5A942FC3E08DEE8@ScottPC> Weather is looking great ! Hi ALL. We have a room rate of $ 47.69 at the Motel 6 865-633-6646 tell them it is for the "House Mountain" contest to get that rate. CAMPING ON SITE NO HOOK UP's............. Please pre-register or questions at sales at rcfoamy.com with name,class and channel and AMA number..... See you this weekend... Scott & Mike House Mountain Pattern Classic August 29 & 30, 2009, Knoxville, TN New Venue, Wide Open Spaces!! Field open for flying at noon on Friday CD: Scott Anderson (865) 712-1658 Asst: Mike Robinson (706) 463-3407 scott at rcfoamy.com shineyobject at gmail.com Pilots' Meeting 9:00am Saturday Entry fee is $30.00 Come Enjoy a More Relaxed Post-Nats Competition In Beautiful East Tennessee Scenery!! All AMA Classes & FAI schedule Contestant Judging Lunch available on-site Saturday Directions and motel information are on page 2 Directions to Field: Take the East Town Mall (Washington Pike) exit 8 off Interstate 640 (map below). Stay on Washington Pike for ~8 miles, past the intersection with Roberts Road (House Mountain convenience mart on the right). You're now less than a mile from the turn-in to the field, which will be on your left just past a horse stable/farm on the right. The satellite view, second below, shows Roberts Road, the horse farm and the flying site. GPS: N36 07.591, W83 47.641 Motels @ Exit 398 on I-40 east of Knoxville: Motel 6 (865) 633-6646 Econo Lodge Inn (865) 932-1217 LaQuinta (865) 633-5100 Best Western 865/544-7737 Hol.Day Inn Exp 865-5255100 Quality Inn East (865) 342-0003 These are all relatively new Motels - Motel 6 is a multi-story building, looks very New and clean, inside room entrance. This exit is closest to the field - maps >From this exit will be available -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Tue Aug 25 13:03:08 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:03:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <445491.43815.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <791997.39044.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Whoops, forgot the link. :-( ? http://www.toprudder.com/hobbies/fut7uap.pdf --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 4:41 PM Great stuff, Tony. ? Here is a link to a column I wrote in the Kfactor a while back. It talks about the 1024 resolution on a Futaba radio. Very similar to what you just said. ? Bob R. --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Anthony Frackowiak wrote: I'll try to explain this as I understand it. With a 2048 system you get 2048 TX step outputs through the entire stick travel only if the electronic throws in the TX are set to Max. Say that's 150% Travel at 100% Dual Rate. Those numbers vary amongst the brands and models but this is a start. Any reduction from there will reduce the 2048 by some percentage. Let's say Travel is set to 100% and Dual Rate remains 100%. You have just reduced the number of steps by 33% so now you're down to around 1350. If you reduce the Dual Rate to 80% from there you're now flying on 1080. If this started out as a 1024 you would end up at 540. I guarantee you'll feel the difference between 1080 and 540. I always try to maximize the electronic throws and set the mechanicals to get the surface travel I desire. But some things are inevitable. To get the model to properly break in a spin takes a lot of elevator deflection, so I end up flying with DR set to 50% or so for normal flying. The higher 2048 system makes a difference with this sort of an example. And I do believe the better servos will respond to this fine of a command. Hope this isn't too confusing. TonyF -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Tue Aug 25 13:12:37 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:12:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> RE: Stick centering. The Hitec servo programmers can read the pulse width down to 1us I believe. Plug it into a receiver output and put it in the right mode and it will display the pulse width. ? RE: Latency comparisons, pullled this from the web: ? These latency findings were taken using carefully contructed and consistent methods to ensure they are as accurate as possible. As of May 2009 Airtronics SD-10G: Min: 7.36ms Max: 16.3ms Ave: 11.83ms Futaba 10C (Futaba is a Trademark of Futaba Corporation and Dist by Great Planes): Min: 9ms Max: 29ms Ave: 19ms JR 9303 & R1221rx (JR is a Trademark of JR Radios Japan and Dist by Horizon Hobby) Min: 25ms Max: 47ms Ave: 36ms JR 12X Min: 21.5ms Max: 43.5ms Ave: 32.5ms Of course, this was in an ad for Airtronics. ;-) ? Bob R. ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Tue Aug 25 13:36:05 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:36:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <877170.12590.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Very interesting. Keep in mind all BUT the Airtronics are 2048 resolution however. This sort of confirms what?I said about the Airtronics design decision. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 5:12 PM RE: Stick centering. The Hitec servo programmers can read the pulse width down to 1us I believe. Plug it into a receiver output and put it in the right mode and it will display the pulse width. ? RE: Latency comparisons, pullled this from the web: ? These latency findings were taken using carefully contructed and consistent methods to ensure they are as accurate as possible. As of May 2009 Airtronics SD-10G: Min: 7.36ms Max: 16.3ms Ave: 11.83ms Futaba 10C (Futaba is a Trademark of Futaba Corporation and Dist by Great Planes): Min: 9ms Max: 29ms Ave: 19ms JR 9303 & R1221rx (JR is a Trademark of JR Radios Japan and Dist by Horizon Hobby) Min: 25ms Max: 47ms Ave: 36ms JR 12X Min: 21.5ms Max: 43.5ms Ave: 32.5ms Of course, this was in an ad for Airtronics. ;-) ? Bob R. ? ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Tue Aug 25 13:38:48 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:38:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 Message-ID: Here's a link to the independent tests run by someone over on RunRyder Heli site. Doesn't look like any tests on the new Airtronics gear yet. Right now the Futaba 10C with the HS receiver is fastest average, fastest minimum and least spread min to max (consistency). I think Dave L mentioned in this thread that consistency in response was probably as important as anything else. The third chart graphs that out for each system. Pretty interesting tests tho I have to admit I am finding it harder to distinquish between 9AM and 10AM so an improvement of 7ms probably isn't going to be too noticeable by me.. Don _http://runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/_ (http://runryder.com/helicopter/t172571p1/) In a message dated 8/25/2009 2:13:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, bob at toprudder.com writes: RE: Stick centering. The Hitec servo programmers can read the pulse width down to 1us I believe. Plug it into a receiver output and put it in the right mode and it will display the pulse width. RE: Latency comparisons, pullled this from the web: These latency findings were taken using carefully contructed and consistent methods to ensure they are as accurate as possible. As of May 2009 Airtronics SD-10G: Min: 7.36ms Max: 16.3ms Ave: 11.83ms Futaba 10C (Futaba is a Trademark of Futaba Corporation and Dist by Great Planes): Min: 9ms Max: 29ms Ave: 19ms JR 9303 & R1221rx (JR is a Trademark of JR Radios Japan and Dist by Horizon Hobby) Min: 25ms Max: 47ms Ave: 36ms JR 12X Min: 21.5ms Max: 43.5ms Ave: 32.5ms Of course, this was in an ad for Airtronics. ;-) Bob R. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joddino at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 25 13:58:56 2009 From: joddino at socal.rr.com (James Oddino) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 21:58:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> What is the frame rate and the servo update rate? Jim O On Aug 25, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Bob Richards wrote: > RE: Stick centering. The Hitec servo programmers can read the pulse > width down to 1us I believe. Plug it into a receiver output and put > it in the right mode and it will display the pulse width. > > RE: Latency comparisons, pullled this from the web: > > These latency findings were taken using carefully contructed and > consistent methods to ensure they are as accurate as possible. As of > May 2009 > > Airtronics SD-10G: > Min: 7.36ms > Max: 16.3ms > Ave: 11.83ms > > Futaba 10C (Futaba is a Trademark of Futaba Corporation and Dist by > Great Planes): > Min: 9ms > Max: 29ms > Ave: 19ms > > JR 9303 & R1221rx (JR is a Trademark of JR Radios Japan and Dist by > Horizon Hobby) > Min: 25ms > Max: 47ms > Ave: 36ms > > JR 12X > Min: 21.5ms > Max: 43.5ms > Ave: 32.5ms > > Of course, this was in an ad for Airtronics. ;-) > > > Bob R. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 14:16:49 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:16:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> References: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <20090825221649.375D511629@bridi.netexpress.com> Bill, The encoder circuitry (the part of the Tx that creates the pulse train and adjusts the pulse width according to stick/switch movement) is electronically independent of the of the rf circuitry that puts the pulse train onto the radio-frequency signal for transmission to the Rx. There is, I think, no more problem with a 2.4 gig module/antenna than with a 72 MHz or 6-meter module. The SS module has all the circuitry to use the 2.4-2.48GHz spectrum, including the antenna, which is "tuned" to the portion of the spectrum used. As I understand it, there are some features of the Spektrum/JR SS-designed systems that do not translate to the module. One of these is the changing of the pulse train so that in flaperon mode the flap pulse is not moved to be adjacent to the aileron pulse in the train. If anyone can actually FEEL this difference, they are almost super-human on the Tx. There are a couple of other features not present in the module that are in the full SS system, but I think they are minor. Hope this is helpful... At 10:31 AM 8/25/2009, you wrote: >All: >I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver >on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly >on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. >However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit >and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming >thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. >However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby >shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a >basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed >to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's >reliability or safety of flight." >Any advice will be appreciated. > >Bill Glaze >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Tue Aug 25 14:20:29 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 22:20:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module References: <7E185A97176F4B60ACF88FA22B27CF81@glazecstp32xp> <80CDD98B-139D-498F-B96D-9940C20321D4@sbcglobal.net> Message-ID: <1FDFCB3924D2408F95FC460807000E46@glazecstp32xp> Tony, (Congratulations on your Nats' win; I've got your entire final flight on tape!) Dave, (I've got one of yours on tape, as well, great FAI work) Vince, Dave, Jon, All you folks who replied, Thanks. This is one of the reasons I love this list: so much experience, expertise, and above all, the willingness to share with others. I'm going to take the plunge; I knew it (2.4) was coming sooner or later. I believe I'll start with the converter/module system, (inasmuch as I already have a suitable transmitter) and probably go to the pure 2.4 system sometime next year, before the season starts. Again, Gentlemen, Thanks to all of you. It is highly appreciated. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Frackowiak To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I flew the 2.4 module a lot in a 9303 before the pure 2.4 systems came out. No problems, however you do not have some of the nice features that come with the pure 2.4 systems. Such as Modelmatch does not work with the module systems. And the pure 2.4 systems are faster. But reliability is not a concern. Tony On Aug 25, 2009, at 7:31 AM, Bill Glaze wrote: All: I bought from a pattern fllyer, a JR 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency synthesizer, While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use this transmitter with a 6 meter synthesizer. However, a good friend of mine suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 Gig. I know that it's definitely the coming thing, even though I've been satisfied with the older system. However, (and this is where my doubt comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he "doesn't trust the 2.4 module, because, it's a basically a converter, and because the entire system wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he doubts the plug-in module's reliability or safety of flight." Any advice will be appreciated. Bill Glaze _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jacontrera at earthlink.net Tue Aug 25 15:46:25 2009 From: jacontrera at earthlink.net (John C) Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 23:46:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Plug-In module Message-ID: <27281694.1251243983330.JavaMail.root@elwamui-chisos.atl.sa.earthlink.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 16:13:07 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:13:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <1959CBB373E9434FB4F41AF8C08722AE@jaysdesktop> References: <744810.37114.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1959CBB373E9434FB4F41AF8C08722AE@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <20090826001306.9572511623@bridi.netexpress.com> I don't know what you mean by "pure spread spectrum" -- Futaba uses the frequency-hopping style of spread spectrum, while JR/Spektrum use the direct-sequencing style. Both are internationally-recognized types of SS -- there is a third (which I can't remember at the moment) and several hybrid types. All must meet global standards for SS transmission. At 04:14 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: >The technology is different. Futaba is pure spread spectrum and Spektrum is >dual frequency diversity. Probably isn't any difference to the non-engineer >and both work very well. A slight advantage to the Spektrum is the number of >Bind-And-Fly models that Horizon is putting out. > >Jay Marshall > >-----Original Message----- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Larry Krutz >Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:00 PM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > >I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum >have conversion packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? >(Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- Larry > >--- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > > > From: Jay Marshall > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't > > speak to JR, but the plug-in > > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > > problem is that if you use > > a tray it will probably have to be > > modified. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > > > > > -----Original > > Message----- > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > > > > Sent: > > Tuesday, August 25, > > 2009 > > 10:32 > > AM > > > > To: > > General pattern > > discussion > > > > Subject: > > [NSRCA-discussion] > > Digital Pug-In module > > > > > > > > > > > > All: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bought from > > a pattern fllyer, a JR > > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency > > synthesizer, > > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use > > this transmitter > > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, a > > good friend of mine > > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 > > Gig. I know > > that it's definitely the coming thing, even > > though I've been satisfied > > with the older system. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, (and > > this is where my doubt > > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > > module, because, it's a basically a converter, and > > because the entire system > > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he > > doubts the plug-in > > module's reliability or safety of flight." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any advice > > will be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > > Glaze > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Tue Aug 25 16:21:13 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:21:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <20090826001306.9572511623@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <65945DCE328940EA85D0E378E0665995@jaysdesktop> Check some of the signal views posted on the 'net using a spectrum analyzer. You will clearly see the difference. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 8:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I don't know what you mean by "pure spread spectrum" -- Futaba uses the frequency-hopping style of spread spectrum, while JR/Spektrum use the direct-sequencing style. Both are internationally-recognized types of SS -- there is a third (which I can't remember at the moment) and several hybrid types. All must meet global standards for SS transmission. At 04:14 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote: The technology is different. Futaba is pure spread spectrum and Spektrum is dual frequency diversity. Probably isn't any difference to the non-engineer and both work very well. A slight advantage to the Spektrum is the number of Bind-And-Fly models that Horizon is putting out. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Larry Krutz Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:00 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum have conversion packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? (Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- Larry --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can't > speak to JR, but the plug-in > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > problem is that if you use > a tray it will probably have to be > modified. > > > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > > Sent: > Tuesday, August 25, > 2009 > 10:32 > AM > > To: > General pattern > discussion > > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Digital Pug-In module > > > > > > All: > > > > > > > I bought from > a pattern fllyer, a JR > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency > synthesizer, > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use > this transmitter > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > However, a > good friend of mine > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 > Gig. I know > that it's definitely the coming thing, even > though I've been satisfied > with the older system. > > > > > > However, (and > this is where my doubt > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > module, because, it's a basically a converter, and > because the entire system > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he > doubts the plug-in > module's reliability or safety of flight." > > > > > > > Any advice > will be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill > Glaze > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgghome at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 16:57:58 2009 From: jgghome at comcast.net (John Gayer) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:57:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] SD-10 In-Reply-To: <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> Message-ID: <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> I'm curious about the stick inputs. I believe the manufacturers are all still using pots, so they must have an A/D converter for each stick input in order to input the data into the processor. Most of the converters are less than 11 bits and even then the least significant bits are noisy. If you can get 8 solid bits of data you are doing well. Unless the manufacturers are doing something very special, it appears to me that the stick inputs will be the limiting factor for resolution. John James Oddino wrote: > What is the frame rate and the servo update rate? > > Jim O > > > On Aug 25, 2009, at 2:12 PM, Bob Richards wrote: > >> RE: Stick centering. The Hitec servo programmers can read the pulse >> width down to 1us I believe. Plug it into a receiver output and put >> it in the right mode and it will display the pulse width. >> >> RE: Latency comparisons, pullled this from the web: >> >> >> These latency findings were taken using carefully contructed and >> consistent methods to ensure they are as accurate as possible. As >> of May 2009 >> >> Airtronics SD-10G: >> Min: 7.36ms >> Max: 16.3ms >> Ave: 11.83ms >> >> Futaba 10C (Futaba is a Trademark of Futaba Corporation and Dist >> by Great Planes): >> Min: 9ms >> Max: 29ms >> Ave: 19ms >> >> JR 9303 & R1221rx (JR is a Trademark of JR Radios Japan and Dist >> by Horizon Hobby) >> Min: 25ms >> Max: 47ms >> Ave: 36ms >> >> JR 12X >> Min: 21.5ms >> Max: 43.5ms >> Ave: 32.5ms >> >> Of course, this was in an ad for Airtronics. ;-) >> >> >> >> Bob R. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 17:02:05 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:02:05 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC In-Reply-To: <688372.41871.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <84FA140E6AF94D3281065E25D1F379AA@davedesktop> <688372.41871.qm@web51011.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <765DD0BB7BB34D15A6C097F1DD474582@davedesktop> Mike, In addition to what Tony F said.... I think one of the biggest considerations for the Prelims is that the judges need to maintain a standard for 4 days, let alone variations in weather conditions which can substantially affect maneuver quality. I'd not expect the prelims to be very accurate in terms of exact pilot placement - especially when you consider the P-09 is relatively easy, and variables like judging fatigue and weather are going to have more effect on the scores. The judging should be more accurate for the semi's as all pilots will be seen over a much shorter interval, and the F-09 has enough difficulty that the maneuver quality will start to degrade pretty quickly outside the top group. For the finals, all pilots are seen over a relatively very short interval (good thing), and the unknowns are certainly a different animal for the pilots. Some pilots certainly aren't as well suited for unknowns as knowns - whether that is mindset or practice regimen, who knows. I can't say for other countries, but I know most of the top F3A guys in the US spend as much time practicing unknowns as the knowns. Regards, Dave -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:58 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Very good stuff Dave. Question? Is there a carry over from the Prelims to the Semi finals? Also is it fair to say that the Semi's and then the finals seperate the men from the boys? I have heard that some of the top guys excell at the semi's but suffer when the harder manuevers come into play. Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. Mike Mueller --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Dave wrote: > From: Dave > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 12:52 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Top 5 in each > group thus far .. > > > ? > > SOMENZINI?????? > USA ???? 978.8??? > 484.8??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 494 > > MAYR?? > ??????????? > AUT????? 920.6??? > 441.8??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 478.8 > > NORTHEAST???? > CAN???? 897.6??? > 429.6??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 468 > > DANKSAGMUL > AUT????? 883.6??? > 421.2??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 462.4 > > FREMMING?????? > NOR???? 871.8??? > 415.4??? > 0????????? > 0????????? > 456.4 > > > ? > > > ? > > BERND > GER???? 1422.6? > 452.8??? > 496?????? > 473.8??? 0 > > SUZUKI > JPN????? 1406.6? > 453.8??? 485.2??? > 467.6??? 0 > > WICKIZER???????? > USA ???? 1331.4? > 418?????? > 470.4??? > 443?????? 0 > > JUN > ZHANG????? > CHN???? 1331???? > 404.4??? 461.8??? > 464.8??? 0 > > BURBAUD??????? > FRA????? 1322.4? > 416.8??? 455.2??? > 450.4??? 0 > > > ? > > > ? > > PAYSANT - > LE? FRA????? 1014.2? > 504.2??? > 510?????? > 0????????? > 0 > > SILVESTRI??????? > ITA?????? > 974.2??? > 469?????? > 505.2??? > 0????????? > 0 > > ONDA?? > ??????????? > JPN????? 972.2??? > 469?????? > 503.2??? > 0????????? > 0 > > SHULMAN??????? > USA ???? 949.2??? > 459.6??? 489.6??? > 0????????? > 0 > > PAYSANT - LE > FRA????? 916.4??? > 461.4??? > 455?????? > 0????????? > 0 > > > ? > > > ? > > AKIBA? > ??????????? > JPN????? 1448.6? > 0????????? > 487?????? > 490.4??? 471.2 > > JESKY? > ??????????? > USA ???? 1424.2? > 0????????? > 474.4??? > 470?????? > 479.8 > > ZEINER > AUT????? > 1394???? > 0????????? > 463?????? > 480.2??? 450.8 > > ROMBAUT??????? > ESP???? 1344.2? > 0????????? > 444.8??? 448.4??? > 451 > > BUTUZOV???????? > RUS???? 1329.8? > 0????????? > 432?????? > 437.6??? 460.2 > > > ? > > FRA, JPN, AUS, > and > USA look to be in contention for > Gold. > > > ? > > For the top guys > in each group - > > - QQ has 3 > potential 1000s > > - Bernd has 1 > potential 1000 > > - CPLR has 4 > potential 1000s > > - Akiba has 2 > potential 1000s > > > ? > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php > > > > ? > > GO > USA!!!! > > > ? > > Regards, > > > > > Dave > > > ? > > > ? > > > ? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mups1953 at yahoo.com Tue Aug 25 17:39:30 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:39:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC In-Reply-To: <765DD0BB7BB34D15A6C097F1DD474582@davedesktop> Message-ID: <155079.95858.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> OK I think I got the drift from some who stated the US team would have done better in the world standings if the finals results were used. In the past I think the wolrd team standings only used the prelimes.Correct? Also this year didn't they make a change to when and how the team standings will be determined? Thanks again guys, Mike --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Dave wrote: > From: Dave > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:58 PM > Mike, > > In addition to what Tony F said.... > > I think one of the biggest considerations for the Prelims > is that the judges > need to maintain a standard for 4 days, let alone > variations in weather > conditions which can substantially affect maneuver > quality.? I'd not expect > the prelims to be very accurate in terms of exact pilot > placement - > especially when you consider the P-09 is relatively easy, > and variables like > judging fatigue and weather are going to have more effect > on the scores. > > The judging should be more accurate for the semi's as all > pilots will be > seen over a much shorter interval, and the F-09 has enough > difficulty that > the maneuver quality will start to degrade pretty quickly > outside the top > group. > > For the finals, all pilots are seen over a relatively very > short interval > (good thing), and the unknowns are certainly a different > animal for the > pilots.? Some pilots certainly aren't as well suited > for unknowns as knowns > - whether that is mindset or practice regimen, who > knows.? I can't say for > other countries, but I know most of the top F3A guys in the > US spend as much > time practicing unknowns as the knowns. > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > > Very good stuff Dave. Question? Is there a carry over from > the Prelims to > the Semi finals? Also is it fair to say that the Semi's and > then the finals > seperate the men from the boys? I have heard that some of > the top guys > excell at the semi's but suffer when the harder manuevers > come into play. > Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. Mike > Mueller > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Dave > wrote: > > > From: Dave > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 12:52 PM > > > > > > > >? > >? > > > >? > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > Top 5 in each > > group thus far?.. > > > > > > ? > > > > SOMENZINI?????? > >? USA ???? 978.8??? > > 484.8??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 494 > > > > MAYR?? > > ??????????? > > AUT????? 920.6??? > > 441.8??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 478.8 > > > > NORTHEAST???? > > CAN???? 897.6??? > > 429.6??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 468 > > > > DANKSAGMUL > > AUT????? 883.6??? > > 421.2??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 462.4 > > > > FREMMING?????? > > NOR???? 871.8??? > > 415.4??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 456.4 > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > BERND > > GER???? 1422.6? > > 452.8??? > > 496?????? > > 473.8??? 0 > > > > SUZUKI > > JPN????? 1406.6? > > 453.8??? 485.2??? > > 467.6??? 0 > > > > WICKIZER???????? > >? USA ???? 1331.4? > > 418?????? > > 470.4??? > > 443?????? 0 > > > > JUN > > ZHANG????? > > CHN???? 1331???? > > 404.4??? 461.8??? > > 464.8??? 0 > > > > BURBAUD??????? > > FRA????? 1322.4? > > 416.8??? 455.2??? > > 450.4??? 0 > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > PAYSANT - > > LE? FRA????? 1014.2? > > 504.2??? > > 510?????? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > SILVESTRI??????? > > ITA?????? > > 974.2??? > > 469?????? > > 505.2??? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > ONDA?? > > ??????????? > > JPN????? 972.2??? > > 469?????? > > 503.2??? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > SHULMAN??????? > >? USA ???? 949.2??? > > 459.6??? 489.6??? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > PAYSANT - LE > > FRA????? 916.4??? > > 461.4??? > > 455?????? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > AKIBA? > > ??????????? > > JPN????? 1448.6? > > 0????????? > > 487?????? > > 490.4??? 471.2 > > > > JESKY? > > ??????????? > >? USA ???? 1424.2? > > 0????????? > > 474.4??? > > 470?????? > > 479.8 > > > > ZEINER > > AUT????? > > 1394???? > > 0????????? > > 463?????? > > 480.2??? 450.8 > > > > ROMBAUT??????? > > ESP???? 1344.2? > > 0????????? > > 444.8??? 448.4??? > > 451 > > > > BUTUZOV???????? > > RUS???? 1329.8? > > 0????????? > > 432?????? > > 437.6??? 460.2 > > > > > > ? > > > > FRA, JPN, AUS, > > and > >? USA look to be in contention for > > Gold. > > > > > > ? > > > > For the top guys > > in each group - > > > > - QQ has 3 > > potential 1000s > > > > - Bernd has 1 > > potential 1000 > > > > - CPLR has 4 > > potential 1000s > > > > - Akiba has 2 > > potential 1000s > > > > > > ? > > > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php > > > > > > > > ? > > > > GO > > USA!!!! > > > > > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From DaveL322 at comcast.net Tue Aug 25 18:04:08 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:04:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC In-Reply-To: <155079.95858.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <765DD0BB7BB34D15A6C097F1DD474582@davedesktop> <155079.95858.qm@web51004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Mike, Yes, in years past only the 4 prelim rounds were used to determine Team placings (which is why it had been argued in the past that the US Team should be selected based on the prelim sequence only). The current rulebook states - "The team classification is established at the end of the competition (after the finals) by adding the numerical final placing of the three team members of each nation. Teams are ranked from the lowest numerical scores to the highest, with complete three-competitor teams, ahead of twocompetitor teams, which in turn are ranked ahead of one-competitor teams. In the case of a tie, the best individual placing decides the team ranking." So, assuming all 3 pilots from a country make the semis, they can improve or drop in the Team standings if the individual pilots, and same thing for the finals. I think this is a good change for the US, as my perception is that the top pilots in the US are better than average at unknowns. Regards, Dave -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mike mueller Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:39 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC OK I think I got the drift from some who stated the US team would have done better in the world standings if the finals results were used. In the past I think the wolrd team standings only used the prelimes.Correct? Also this year didn't they make a change to when and how the team standings will be determined? Thanks again guys, Mike --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Dave wrote: > From: Dave > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:58 PM > Mike, > > In addition to what Tony F said.... > > I think one of the biggest considerations for the Prelims > is that the judges > need to maintain a standard for 4 days, let alone > variations in weather > conditions which can substantially affect maneuver > quality.? I'd not expect > the prelims to be very accurate in terms of exact pilot > placement - > especially when you consider the P-09 is relatively easy, > and variables like > judging fatigue and weather are going to have more effect > on the scores. > > The judging should be more accurate for the semi's as all > pilots will be > seen over a much shorter interval, and the F-09 has enough > difficulty that > the maneuver quality will start to degrade pretty quickly > outside the top > group. > > For the finals, all pilots are seen over a relatively very > short interval > (good thing), and the unknowns are certainly a different > animal for the > pilots.? Some pilots certainly aren't as well suited > for unknowns as knowns > - whether that is mindset or practice regimen, who > knows.? I can't say for > other countries, but I know most of the top F3A guys in the > US spend as much > time practicing unknowns as the knowns. > > Regards, > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] > On Behalf Of mike mueller > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:58 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > > Very good stuff Dave. Question? Is there a carry over from > the Prelims to > the Semi finals? Also is it fair to say that the Semi's and > then the finals > seperate the men from the boys? I have heard that some of > the top guys > excell at the semi's but suffer when the harder manuevers > come into play. > Just wondering if anyone else has heard of this. Mike > Mueller > > --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Dave > wrote: > > > From: Dave > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 12:52 PM > > > > > > > >? > >? > > > >? > > > >? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > Top 5 in each > > group thus far .. > > > > > > ? > > > > SOMENZINI?????? > >? USA ???? 978.8??? > > 484.8??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 494 > > > > MAYR?? > > ??????????? > > AUT????? 920.6??? > > 441.8??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 478.8 > > > > NORTHEAST???? > > CAN???? 897.6??? > > 429.6??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 468 > > > > DANKSAGMUL > > AUT????? 883.6??? > > 421.2??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 462.4 > > > > FREMMING?????? > > NOR???? 871.8??? > > 415.4??? > > 0????????? > > 0????????? > > 456.4 > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > BERND > > GER???? 1422.6? > > 452.8??? > > 496?????? > > 473.8??? 0 > > > > SUZUKI > > JPN????? 1406.6? > > 453.8??? 485.2??? > > 467.6??? 0 > > > > WICKIZER???????? > >? USA ???? 1331.4? > > 418?????? > > 470.4??? > > 443?????? 0 > > > > JUN > > ZHANG????? > > CHN???? 1331???? > > 404.4??? 461.8??? > > 464.8??? 0 > > > > BURBAUD??????? > > FRA????? 1322.4? > > 416.8??? 455.2??? > > 450.4??? 0 > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > PAYSANT - > > LE? FRA????? 1014.2? > > 504.2??? > > 510?????? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > SILVESTRI??????? > > ITA?????? > > 974.2??? > > 469?????? > > 505.2??? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > ONDA?? > > ??????????? > > JPN????? 972.2??? > > 469?????? > > 503.2??? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > SHULMAN??????? > >? USA ???? 949.2??? > > 459.6??? 489.6??? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > PAYSANT - LE > > FRA????? 916.4??? > > 461.4??? > > 455?????? > > 0????????? > > 0 > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > AKIBA? > > ??????????? > > JPN????? 1448.6? > > 0????????? > > 487?????? > > 490.4??? 471.2 > > > > JESKY? > > ??????????? > >? USA ???? 1424.2? > > 0????????? > > 474.4??? > > 470?????? > > 479.8 > > > > ZEINER > > AUT????? > > 1394???? > > 0????????? > > 463?????? > > 480.2??? 450.8 > > > > ROMBAUT??????? > > ESP???? 1344.2? > > 0????????? > > 444.8??? 448.4??? > > 451 > > > > BUTUZOV???????? > > RUS???? 1329.8? > > 0????????? > > 432?????? > > 437.6??? 460.2 > > > > > > ? > > > > FRA, JPN, AUS, > > and > >? USA look to be in contention for > > Gold. > > > > > > ? > > > > For the top guys > > in each group - > > > > - QQ has 3 > > potential 1000s > > > > - Bernd has 1 > > potential 1000 > > > > - CPLR has 4 > > potential 1000s > > > > - Akiba has 2 > > potential 1000s > > > > > > ? > > > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php > > > > > > > > ? > > > > GO > > USA!!!! > > > > > > ? > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > ? > > > > > > > >? > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ? ? ? > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Tue Aug 25 18:22:48 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:22:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do others do this? In-Reply-To: <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> Message-ID: <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> I have a question to ask you guys. If you take a look at the attached picture. You can see the middle of the fuel tank sunken. My 110S does this when I run the engine dry (burn off the left over fuel). Yes, I know the YS until 140Sport suck the fuel at idle, but haven't actually seen the fuel tank going in. Is this wrong? Just curious as I have never seen one doing. Ihncheol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMAGE_040.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 33690 bytes Desc: not available URL: From scott at rcfoamy.com Wed Aug 26 04:49:26 2009 From: scott at rcfoamy.com (scott anderson) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 12:49:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] D3 Knoxville Contest Message-ID: Weather is looking great ! Hi ALL. We have a room rate of $ 47.69 at the Motel 6 865-633-6646 tell them it is for the "House Mountain" contest to get that rate. CAMPING ON SITE NO HOOK UP's............. Please pre-register or questions at sales at rcfoamy.com with name,class and channel and AMA number..... See you this weekend... Scott & Mike House Mountain Pattern Classic August 29 & 30, 2009, Knoxville, TN New Venue, Wide Open Spaces!! Field open for flying at noon on Friday CD: Scott Anderson (865) 712-1658 Asst: Mike Robinson (706) 463-3407 scott at rcfoamy.com shineyobject at gmail.com Pilots' Meeting 9:00am Saturday Entry fee is $30.00 Come Enjoy a More Relaxed Post-Nats Competition In Beautiful East Tennessee Scenery!! All AMA Classes & FAI schedule Contestant Judging Lunch available on-site Saturday Directions and motel information are on page 2 Directions to Field: Take the East Town Mall (Washington Pike) exit 8 off Interstate 640 (map below). Stay on Washington Pike for ~8 miles, past the intersection with Roberts Road (House Mountain convenience mart on the right). You're now less than a mile from the turn-in to the field, which will be on your left just past a horse stable/farm on the right. The satellite view, second below, shows Roberts Road, the horse farm and the flying site. GPS: N36 07.591, W83 47.641 Motels @ Exit 398 on I-40 east of Knoxville: Motel 6 (865) 633-6646 Econo Lodge Inn (865) 932-1217 LaQuinta (865) 633-5100 Best Western 865/544-7737 Hol.Day Inn Exp 865-5255100 Quality Inn East (865) 342-0003 These are all relatively new Motels - Motel 6 is a multi-story building, looks very New and clean, inside room entrance. This exit is closest to the field - maps >From this exit will be available -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Wed Aug 26 06:27:35 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:27:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Wed Aug 26 06:35:28 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:35:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> Atwood, Mark wrote: > > Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another > solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett > and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. > > > > > I took the scores and normalized them. Here are the top ten from the 2 groups that are done flying: SOMENZINI USA 1484.4 1000.00 AKIBA JPN 1448.6 1000.00 JESKY USA 1424.2 983.16 MAYR AUT 1448.8 976.02 ZEINER AUT 1394 962.31 KAISER LIE 1404.4 946.11 NORTHEAST CAN 1394.4 939.37 DANKSAGMULLER AUT 1393.4 938.70 ROMBAUT ESP 1347.2 930.00 BUTUZOV RUS 1342 926.41 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.lavey at cox.net Wed Aug 26 06:38:48 2009 From: bob.lavey at cox.net (Bob Lavey) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 14:38:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do others do this? In-Reply-To: <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com><4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> Message-ID: <21ACE50643C747B1B2B089244C2EBFAE@LAVEYFAMILYXP> Hi Ihncheol, I have several of the new-style and older YS 110s, and I've never seen that happen. I almost never burn off the unused fuel, though. If I'm going to be putting one up for more than a couple of weeks, I'll run it dry and add after-run, but I fly my main two every couple of days. Perhaps it's a difference in the style of tanks we're using? All of mine are using Hayes tanks, and that doesn't look like what you have. The other thing is that I'd expect the check valve to allow air to come into the tank as the fuel was being sucked out. Unless I'm mistaken, the check valve keeps air/fuel from going out of the tank but not in. Perhaps there's a problem with your check valve? Thanks, Bob _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ihncheol Park Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:23 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do others do this? I have a question to ask you guys. If you take a look at the attached picture. You can see the middle of the fuel tank sunken. My 110S does this when I run the engine dry (burn off the left over fuel). Yes, I know the YS until 140Sport suck the fuel at idle, but haven't actually seen the fuel tank going in. Is this wrong? Just curious as I have never seen one doing. Ihncheol -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Wed Aug 26 07:15:42 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:15:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> Message-ID: <4A95519C.7090303@cox.net> I should note that I may not have calculated correctly. I normalized the total of the 3 best scores per pilot within their flight group. I am not sure if that is how they will do it. They may normalize each panel, then take the three best for each pilot from that. I'm not clear on which way they are doing it. Bill's Email wrote: > Atwood, Mark wrote: >> >> Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another >> solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for >> Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. >> >> >> >> >> > > I took the scores and normalized them. Here are the top ten from the 2 > groups that are done flying: > > SOMENZINI USA 1484.4 1000.00 > AKIBA JPN 1448.6 1000.00 > JESKY USA 1424.2 983.16 > MAYR AUT 1448.8 976.02 > ZEINER AUT 1394 962.31 > KAISER LIE 1404.4 946.11 > NORTHEAST CAN 1394.4 939.37 > DANKSAGMULLER AUT 1393.4 938.70 > ROMBAUT ESP 1347.2 930.00 > BUTUZOV RUS 1342 926.41 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Wed Aug 26 07:19:00 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:19:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <4A95519C.7090303@cox.net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> <4A95519C.7090303@cox.net> Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B74A9@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> After today they will all have had equal exposure, so they will normalize everyone together for each round, and then take the best 3 of the 4. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:16 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's I should note that I may not have calculated correctly. I normalized the total of the 3 best scores per pilot within their flight group. I am not sure if that is how they will do it. They may normalize each panel, then take the three best for each pilot from that. I'm not clear on which way they are doing it. Bill's Email wrote: Atwood, Mark wrote: Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. I took the scores and normalized them. Here are the top ten from the 2 groups that are done flying: SOMENZINI USA 1484.4 1000.00 AKIBA JPN 1448.6 1000.00 JESKY USA 1424.2 983.16 MAYR AUT 1448.8 976.02 ZEINER AUT 1394 962.31 KAISER LIE 1404.4 946.11 NORTHEAST CAN 1394.4 939.37 DANKSAGMULLER AUT 1393.4 938.70 ROMBAUT ESP 1347.2 930.00 BUTUZOV RUS 1342 926.41 ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.60/2311 - Release Date: 08/25/09 06:08:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Wed Aug 26 07:23:20 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:23:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B74A9@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> <4A95519C.7090303@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B74A9@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <4A955367.5060001@cox.net> Atwood, Mark wrote: > > After today they will all have had equal exposure, so they will > normalize everyone together for each round, and then take the best 3 > of the 4. > > > > > > > OK, I think I got it. You are saying that they will normalize all the pilots for each Panel. Then they will drop the lowest normalized score to get the overall standings for the Preliminary round. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net Wed Aug 26 07:46:07 2009 From: pnahobbies at sbcglobal.net (Ihncheol Park) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:46:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do others do this? In-Reply-To: <21ACE50643C747B1B2B089244C2EBFAE@LAVEYFAMILYXP> Message-ID: <439456.33956.qm@web83902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Bob, The fuel tank is MK. So far, trying two difference YS check valves (new)didn't make any differences. Tank keeps the pressure just fine for normal runs. During the normal run on the ground, it doesn't seem to do that. I am not sure since I haven't run the engine on the ground for more than 3 minutes in idle. Only thing that I can think of is that the diaphragm is a little too stiff so that it doesn't move well on idle? However, I haven't been able to disassemble the regulator. I can see the exploded view, but it doesn't show how it actually was assembled. Do you know how to disassemble the regulator on S version? Ihncheol --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Bob Lavey wrote: > From: Bob Lavey > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do others do this? > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 9:38 AM > > > > > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > font-family:Cambria Math;} > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > font-family:Malgun Gothic;} > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > font-family:Calibri;} > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > font-family:Consolas;} > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > font-family:Malgun Gothic;} > _filtered #yiv246563159 {margin:85.05pt 1.0in 1.0in > 1.0in;} > #yiv246563159 P.MsoNormal { > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman", "serif";} > #yiv246563159 LI.MsoNormal { > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman", "serif";} > #yiv246563159 DIV.MsoNormal { > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman", "serif";} > #yiv246563159 A:link { > COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > #yiv246563159 SPAN.MsoHyperlink { > COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > #yiv246563159 A:visited { > COLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > #yiv246563159 SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { > COLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > #yiv246563159 P.MsoPlainText { > FONT-SIZE:10.5pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > 0pt;COLOR:windowtext;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > #yiv246563159 LI.MsoPlainText { > FONT-SIZE:10.5pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > 0pt;COLOR:windowtext;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > #yiv246563159 DIV.MsoPlainText { > FONT-SIZE:10.5pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > 0pt;COLOR:windowtext;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > #yiv246563159 P { > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN-LEFT:0in;COLOR:black;MARGIN-RIGHT:0in;FONT-FAMILY:"Times > New Roman", "serif";} > #yiv246563159 PRE { > FONT-SIZE:10pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Courier New";} > #yiv246563159 SPAN.HTMLPreformattedChar { > COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > #yiv246563159 SPAN.EmailStyle20 { > COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri", "sans-serif";} > #yiv246563159 SPAN.PlainTextChar { > FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > #yiv246563159 .MsoChpDefault { > FONT-SIZE:10pt;} > #yiv246563159 DIV.Section1 { > } > > > > Hi Ihncheol, > ? > I have several of the new-style > and older YS 110s, and I've > never seen that happen.? I almost never burn off the > unused fuel, > though.? If I'm going to be putting one up for > more than a couple of weeks, > I'll run it dry and add after-run, but I fly?my > main two every couple of > days. > ? > Perhaps it's a difference in > the style of tanks we're > using?? All of mine are using Hayes tanks, and that > doesn't look like what > you have. > ? > The other thing is that I'd > expect the check valve to allow > air to come into the tank as the fuel was being sucked > out.? Unless I'm > mistaken, the check valve keeps air/fuel from going out of > the tank but not > in.? Perhaps there's a problem with your check > valve? > ? > Thanks, > Bob > > > > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On > Behalf Of Ihncheol > Park > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:23 PM > To: 'General > pattern discussion' > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do > others do this? > > > > > I have a question to ask you > guys. > If you > take a look at the > attached picture.? You can see the middle of the > fuel tank > sunken. > My > 110S does this when I run > the engine dry (burn off the left over fuel).? > > Yes, I > know the YS until > 140Sport suck the fuel at idle, but haven't actually > seen the fuel tank going > in. > > ? > > ? > Is > this > wrong? > > ? > Just > curious as I have never > seen one doing. > > ? > Ihncheol > ? > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Wed Aug 26 07:48:43 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:48:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net><000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> Message-ID: <76953419BF704C30B489E9EB767F14FE@davedesktop> And another angle. Below are the top 30 based on RAW scores (3 rounds or 4), and then the next few who have yet to fly round 4 (and therefore could improve into the top 30). Of the pilots that have flown 4 rounds, the vast majority are keeping their scores from the right two columns, so pilots with an * are likely to improve there total RAW score after flying their 4th round. We will know soon enough! CPLR has won the prelims unless Onda and/or Silvestri get ~530 (not likely), but they could catch QQ with ~500. JAS has a good shot at getting ahead of Akiba and Mayr, and Bernd and Suzuki have could catch AJ. Brett could pick up 4-5 spots with a good score. Sum of placements for Team right now: JPN 19 AUT 32 USA 38 FRA 42 ITA 50 1. PAYSANT - LE FRA 1513.2 504.2 510 0 499 * 2. SOMENZINI USA 1484.4 484.8 505.6 457.2 494 3. ONDA JPN 1455.8 469 503.2 0 483.6 * 4. SILVESTRI ITA 1455.6 469 505.2 0 481.4 * 5. MAYR AUT 1448.8 441.8 504.4 465.6 478.8 6. AKIBA JPN 1448.6 467 487 490.4 471.2 7. SHULMAN USA 1428 459.6 489.6 0 478.8 * 8. JESKY USA 1424.2 468 474.4 470 479.8 9. BERND GER 1422.6 452.8 496 473.8 0 * 10. SUZUKI JPN 1406.6 453.8 485.2 467.6 0 * 11. KAISER LIE 1404.4 391.8 489.2 455.6 459.6 12. NORTHEAST CAN 1394.4 429.6 478.6 447.8 468 13. ZEINER AUT 1394 446.8 463 480.2 450.8 14. DANKSAGMUL AUT 1393.4 421.2 479.6 451.4 462.4 15. PAYSANT - LE FRA 1391.4 461.4 455 0 475 * 16. FRIGGERI ITA 1363 430.4 471.6 0 461 * 17. RUBIN SUI 1362.6 406.8 465.4 438.2 459 18. FREMMING NOR 1361.8 415.4 463.4 442 456.4 19. GUENTHER GER 1357.2 444.2 457.4 0 455.6 * 20. MATT LIE 1353 427.6 467 0 458.4 * 21. ROMBAUT ESP 1347.2 447.8 444.8 448.4 451 22. BUTUZOV RUS 1342 444.2 432 437.6 460.2 23. WICKIZER USA 1331.4 418 470.4 443 0 * 24. JUN ZHANG CHN 1331 404.4 461.8 464.8 0 * 25. SELVA SMR 1325.4 441.2 423.4 438.4 445.8 26. BURBAUD FRA 1322.4 416.8 455.2 450.4 0 * 27. SCHADEN SUI 1322.2 399 452.2 437 433 28. HRACH CZE 1312.6 437.6 436.8 438.2 397.2 29. DI HUANG CHN 1311.6 408.8 423 464.6 424 30. PELLONI ITA 1311 430.8 447 433.2 0 * COLOMBO ARG 1300.6 412.8 437.2 0 450.6 * DIERICKX BEL 1292.8 410 453 429.8 0 * FRANTISEK CZE 1292 407.6 458.8 425.6 0 * JUND SUI 1278.2 416.8 426.4 0 435 * STOCKWELL RSA 1261.2 402.8 429.2 429.2 0 * ROBINSON IRL 1257.6 388.2 453.2 416.2 0 * Regards, Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill's Email Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:35 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Atwood, Mark wrote: Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. I took the scores and normalized them. Here are the top ten from the 2 groups that are done flying: SOMENZINI USA 1484.4 1000.00 AKIBA JPN 1448.6 1000.00 JESKY USA 1424.2 983.16 MAYR AUT 1448.8 976.02 ZEINER AUT 1394 962.31 KAISER LIE 1404.4 946.11 NORTHEAST CAN 1394.4 939.37 DANKSAGMULLER AUT 1393.4 938.70 ROMBAUT ESP 1347.2 930.00 BUTUZOV RUS 1342 926.41 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Aug 26 07:58:36 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:58:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <4A955367.5060001@cox.net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <4A95482E.6080005@cox.net> <4A95519C.7090303@cox.net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B74A9@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <4A955367.5060001@cox.net> Message-ID: <836630.49725.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have spread sheet that will do all the calculations, I'm just waiting for the afternoon rounds to be posted. Yesterday they were out there around 2:30EST, I will post them as soon as I can. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Bill's Email To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 11:23:19 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Atwood, Mark wrote: >After >today they will all have had equal exposure, so they will >normalize everyone together for each round, and then take the best 3 of >the 4. > > > > OK, I think I got it. You are saying that they will normalize all the pilots for each Panel. Then they will drop the lowest normalized score to get the overall standings for the Preliminary round. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob.lavey at cox.net Wed Aug 26 07:59:18 2009 From: bob.lavey at cox.net (Bob Lavey) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 15:59:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do others do this? In-Reply-To: <439456.33956.qm@web83902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <21ACE50643C747B1B2B089244C2EBFAE@LAVEYFAMILYXP> <439456.33956.qm@web83902.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7189A4CDE9B5453FA674B4644F37E74A@LAVEYFAMILYXP> Ha! I have never disassembled one of my engines :) I know better than that. Do you mean the diaphragm in the check valve may be too stiff to move at idle? That's possible. There's probably not a lot of pressure going through that line at idle, and it may not overcome the diaphragm. Thanks, Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf > Of Ihncheol Park > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:46 AM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do others do this? > > Bob, > > The fuel tank is MK. So far, trying two difference YS check > valves (new)didn't make any differences. Tank keeps the > pressure just fine for normal runs. During the normal run on > the ground, it doesn't seem to do that. I am not sure since > I haven't run the engine on the ground for more than 3 > minutes in idle. > > Only thing that I can think of is that the diaphragm is a > little too stiff so that it doesn't move well on idle? > > However, I haven't been able to disassemble the regulator. I > can see the exploded view, but it doesn't show how it > actually was assembled. > > Do you know how to disassemble the regulator on S version? > > Ihncheol > > --- On Wed, 8/26/09, Bob Lavey wrote: > > > From: Bob Lavey > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do > others do this? > > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > > > Date: Wednesday, August 26, 2009, 9:38 AM > > > > > > > > > > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > > font-family:Cambria Math;} > > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > > font-family:Malgun Gothic;} > > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > > font-family:Calibri;} > > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > > font-family:Consolas;} > > _filtered #yiv246563159 { > > font-family:Malgun Gothic;} > > _filtered #yiv246563159 {margin:85.05pt 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} > > #yiv246563159 P.MsoNormal { > > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman", "serif";} > > #yiv246563159 LI.MsoNormal { > > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman", "serif";} > > #yiv246563159 DIV.MsoNormal { > > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Times New Roman", "serif";} > > #yiv246563159 A:link { > > COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > > #yiv246563159 SPAN.MsoHyperlink { > > COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > > #yiv246563159 A:visited { > > COLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > > #yiv246563159 SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { > > COLOR:purple;TEXT-DECORATION:underline;} > > #yiv246563159 P.MsoPlainText { > > FONT-SIZE:10.5pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > > 0pt;COLOR:windowtext;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > > #yiv246563159 LI.MsoPlainText { > > FONT-SIZE:10.5pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > > 0pt;COLOR:windowtext;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > > #yiv246563159 DIV.MsoPlainText { > > FONT-SIZE:10.5pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > > 0pt;COLOR:windowtext;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > > #yiv246563159 P { > > > FONT-SIZE:12pt;MARGIN-LEFT:0in;COLOR:black;MARGIN-RIGHT:0in;FONT-FAMIL > > Y:"Times > > New Roman", "serif";} > > #yiv246563159 PRE { > > FONT-SIZE:10pt;MARGIN:0in 0in > > 0pt;COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:"Courier New";} > > #yiv246563159 SPAN.HTMLPreformattedChar { > > COLOR:black;FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > > #yiv246563159 SPAN.EmailStyle20 { > > COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri", "sans-serif";} > > #yiv246563159 SPAN.PlainTextChar { > > FONT-FAMILY:Consolas;} > > #yiv246563159 .MsoChpDefault { > > FONT-SIZE:10pt;} > > #yiv246563159 DIV.Section1 { > > } > > > > > > > > Hi Ihncheol, > > ? > > I have several of the new-style > > and older YS 110s, and I've > > never seen that happen.? I almost never burn off the unused fuel, > > though.? If I'm going to be putting one up for more than a > couple of > > weeks, I'll run it dry and add after-run, but I fly?my main > two every > > couple of days. > > ? > > Perhaps it's a difference in > > the style of tanks we're > > using?? All of mine are using Hayes tanks, and that doesn't > look like > > what you have. > > ? > > The other thing is that I'd > > expect the check valve to allow > > air to come into the tank as the fuel was being sucked out.? Unless > > I'm mistaken, the check valve keeps air/fuel from going out of the > > tank but not in.? Perhaps there's a problem with your check valve? > > ? > > Thanks, > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > From: > > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of > > Ihncheol > > Park > > Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:23 PM > > To: 'General > > pattern discussion' > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] YS110S fuel tank. Do > > others do this? > > > > > > > > > > I have a question to ask you > > guys. > > If you > > take a look at the > > attached picture.? You can see the middle of the fuel tank > > sunken. > > My > > 110S does this when I run > > the engine dry (burn off the left over fuel). > > > > Yes, I > > know the YS until > > 140Sport suck the fuel at idle, but haven't actually seen > the fuel > > tank going > > in. > > > > ? > > > > ? > > Is > > this > > wrong? > > > > ? > > Just > > curious as I have never > > seen one doing. > > > > ? > > Ihncheol > > ? > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From tony at radiosouthrc.com Wed Aug 26 08:53:17 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 16:53:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] District 3 Championship Message-ID: <6A58D5E57D20423CBEA2B780FEE20D1F@Tony> The NSRCA District 3 championships will be held at the OJ Stillman Memorial Pattern Contest in Jacksonville, FL on September 25-27. The contest will be the 26 & 27th with the 25th as a practice day. I have attached a PDF flyer of the event. Please past this email around to all interested. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PatternContest2009.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 12970 bytes Desc: not available URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Wed Aug 26 09:22:25 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 17:22:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Contest Message-ID: Folks The 2009 Emerald Air Corps, annual pattern contest will be held on Labor Day weekend, September 5th and 6th.... Creswell, Oregon. You can find all the info with the following link. http://www.nsrca.us/d8/creswell.htm Rex Lesher D8 VP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 10:18:10 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:18:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. Jason got a 501. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid > flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason > who both fly in the afternoon there. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Wed Aug 26 10:51:23 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 18:51:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <304823.39320.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sweet! ________________________________ From: Derek Koopowitz To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very last pilot to fly today).? It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. Jason got a 501. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today.? ??Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. >? >? >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Wed Aug 26 11:14:53 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:14:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <304823.39320.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com><4A948885.2070604@comcast.net><000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> <304823.39320.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5937341CF8B148FDB286C05FF6F45910@Tony> GREAT JOB TEAM USA!!!! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Sweet! _____ From: Derek Koopowitz To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. Jason got a 501. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Wed Aug 26 11:17:41 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:17:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com><4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4B7100D4D61E4D30A5DF6724C10FC35E@Tony> Now, they tabulate the 4 rounds, TBL the scores and then normalize, correct? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:18 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. Jason got a 501. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjfrederick at cox.net Wed Aug 26 11:22:02 2009 From: mjfrederick at cox.net (mjfrederick at cox.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:22:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090826152201.84CBO.102017.imail@eastrmwml38> Without knowing how everyone else who flew in Jason's group did, a 501 will put him winning that round and jumping him up in the top 5. On my spreadsheet that puts him in 3rd behind Quique and Christophe, but that's without anyone else's but his and Brett's raw scores added. Also, adding Brett's raw score without anyone else's brings him up to 16... More to come once I get all of em done. I have posted the top 31 (per my spreasheet) to the RCU thread based on scores before this afternoon... Matt ---- Derek Koopowitz wrote: Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. Jason got a 501. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid > flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason > who both fly in the afternoon there. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 11:22:50 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:22:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <5937341CF8B148FDB286C05FF6F45910@Tony> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> <304823.39320.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5937341CF8B148FDB286C05FF6F45910@Tony> Message-ID: <3454543c0908261222j483ea4e7n92bc7c90d1ae92c0@mail.gmail.com> Semis are: 1. CPLR 2. ONDA 3. QQ 4. Sebart 5. Jas 6. Mayer 7. Akiba 8. Suzuki 9. Bernt 10. Jesky 11. BPLR 12. Kaiser 13. Chad 14. Zeiner 15. Danksagmuller 16. Barbaud 17. Brett 18. Matt 19. Frigerri 20. Froemming 21. Ulsamer 22. Rubin 23. Zhang Xu Jun 24. Rombaut 25. Butuzov 26. Dierickx 27. Pokorny 28. Selva 29. Schaden 30. Colombo On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Tony wrote: > GREAT JOB TEAM USA!!!! > > > > Tony Stillman, President > > Radio South, Inc. > > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > > Brunswick, GA 31525 > > 1-800-962-7802 > > www.radiosouthrc.com > ------------------------------ > > *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Hunt > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:51 PM > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's > > > > Sweet! > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Derek Koopowitz > *To:* General pattern discussion > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM > *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's > > Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well > (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his > scores. > > Jason got a 501. > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark > wrote: > > Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid > flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason > who both fly in the afternoon there. > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smaragdz at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 26 11:42:26 2009 From: smaragdz at bellsouth.net (Ryan Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 19:42:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908261222j483ea4e7n92bc7c90d1ae92c0@mail.gmail.com> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com><4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net><99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com><304823.39320.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com><5937341CF8B148FDB286C05FF6F45910@Tony> <3454543c0908261222j483ea4e7n92bc7c90d1ae92c0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <082620091942.21072.4A9590200005D6C00000525022230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> Derek, The website has information to the contrary. It looks like TBL has kicked in as well. CPLR is first, QQ is second, Onda is third, and Seba is fourth, according the site. http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php -------------- Original message from Derek Koopowitz : -------------- Semis are: 1. CPLR 2. ONDA 3. QQ 4. Sebart 5. Jas 6. Mayer 7. Akiba 8. Suzuki 9. Bernt 10. Jesky 11. BPLR 12. Kaiser 13. Chad 14. Zeiner 15. Danksagmuller 16. Barbaud 17. Brett 18. Matt 19. Frigerri 20. Froemming 21. Ulsamer 22. Rubin 23. Zhang Xu Jun 24. Rombaut 25. Butuzov 26. Dierickx 27. Pokorny 28. Selva 29. Schaden 30. Colombo On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Tony wrote: GREAT JOB TEAM USA!!!! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Sweet! From: Derek Koopowitz To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. Jason got a 501. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Aug 26 12:21:52 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:21:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bob's Highly Unofficial WC Scores Top 30 Message-ID: <586161.51259.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> This is what I calculate: Dorsal Last Name First Name Country Blank Equalized Total Panel 1 Panel 2 Panel 3 Panel 4 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 3000.0000 1000.0000 1000.0000 995.3837 1000.0000 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 2952.0617 923.7603 986.0616 1000.0000 966.0001 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 2937.2221 957.6813 990.3880 880.3717 989.1528 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 2933.6167 892.2886 989.3700 982.9810 961.2657 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 2889.5843 917.1899 958.9484 974.1446 956.4913 24 MAYR GERHRARD AUT 2871.1334 854.1881 988.0193 923.1668 959.9473 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 2870.2186 917.4426 954.1521 972.5398 943.5266 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 2862.1359 889.0811 950.5697 927.3077 984.2586 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 2851.9060 888.7118 960.4557 927.2680 964.1823 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 2833.4133 939.7391 929.0161 931.3098 962.3644 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 2804.0664 919.9308 892.7607 932.4986 951.6371 19 KAISER STEFAN LIE 2783.4090 779.6590 958.1653 903.6911 921.5526 18 NORTHEAST CHAD CAN 2764.2004 842.1943 936.9641 887.3853 939.8510 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 2750.3285 877.9231 906.4250 951.7762 892.1273 1 DANKSAGMULLER HELMUT AUT 2747.5899 825.1268 924.8267 894.4386 928.3246 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 2731.7630 813.3663 891.7035 892.4177 947.6418 31 WICKIZER BRETT USA 2724.8350 813.4246 923.6522 878.2319 922.9509 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 2721.9411 833.5439 914.7449 892.6753 914.5209 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 2720.6944 813.8911 941.3101 876.3299 903.0544 25 FREMMING OLA NOR 2709.5540 811.6751 907.8540 876.0922 925.6078 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 2708.1625 871.0612 881.1519 917.0844 909.9263 12 RUBIN MARK SUI 2700.1803 791.7501 898.2225 869.0587 932.8992 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 2673.6370 785.1797 919.7173 921.5818 832.3378 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 2663.0376 881.3055 871.0309 877.4790 904.2530 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 2659.9108 869.5838 846.6387 867.1963 923.1307 26 DIERICKX BENOIT BEL 2655.5058 799.4285 887.9253 851.9010 915.6795 32 FRANTISEK POKORNY CZE 2652.9832 790.6421 898.9076 832.6828 921.3928 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 2630.4070 869.7782 828.6089 868.8011 891.8276 8 SCHADEN BERNHARD SUI 2618.1786 780.0284 886.5745 866.2651 865.3389 Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From mjfrederick at cox.net Wed Aug 26 12:27:49 2009 From: mjfrederick at cox.net (mjfrederick at cox.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:27:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <082620091942.21072.4A9590200005D6C00000525022230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> Message-ID: <20090826162749.DXMV2.103111.imail@eastrmwml38> Ryan, I pulled the raw data from that website and got the same results as Derek. If you click on the link that says "Preliminares" on the left side it will give you the normalized ranking (the same one Derek posted, and my calculations agree with). Of course, we have no way of knowing if TBL was applied to the raw scores they're using, so things could easily change, but TBL can't make THAT much of a difference, and the difference between second and third at this moment is mathematically insignificant, it's the semi's and finals that count anyway! Wish Quique and all the guys good luck, and tell Hebert I said hey, and that I'd kinda like a Valiant. He'll get the joke! Matt Frederick ---- Ryan Smith wrote: Derek, The website has information to the contrary. It looks like TBL has kicked in as well. CPLR is first, QQ is second, Onda is third, and Seba is fourth, according the site. http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php -------------- Original message from Derek Koopowitz : -------------- Semis are: 1. CPLR 2. ONDA 3. QQ 4. Sebart 5. Jas 6. Mayer 7. Akiba 8. Suzuki 9. Bernt 10. Jesky 11. BPLR 12. Kaiser 13. Chad 14. Zeiner 15. Danksagmuller 16. Barbaud 17. Brett 18. Matt 19. Frigerri 20. Froemming 21. Ulsamer 22. Rubin 23. Zhang Xu Jun 24. Rombaut 25. Butuzov 26. Dierickx 27. Pokorny 28. Selva 29. Schaden 30. Colombo On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Tony wrote: GREAT JOB TEAM USA!!!! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Sweet! From: Derek Koopowitz To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. Jason got a 501. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly in the afternoon there. _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From smaragdz at bellsouth.net Wed Aug 26 12:35:02 2009 From: smaragdz at bellsouth.net (Ryan Smith) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:35:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <20090826162749.DXMV2.103111.imail@eastrmwml38> References: <082620091942.21072.4A9590200005D6C00000525022230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> <20090826162749.DXMV2.103111.imail@eastrmwml38> Message-ID: <082620092035.6223.4A959C73000C960A0000184F22230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> I see now that the calculations are correct. I think Quique should have gotten a 966 for round one, versus the 957 he's listed as having, however. And on the official site, TBL has been calculated from what I can see. FWIW, TBL made 10 raw points worth of difference for one of QQ's rounds. Thanks for the clarification! -------------- Original message from : -------------- > Ryan, > I pulled the raw data from that website and got the same results as Derek. If you click on the link that says "Preliminares" on the left side it will give you the normalized ranking (the same one Derek posted, and my calculations agree with). Of course, we have no way of knowing if TBL was applied to the raw scores they're using, so things could easily change, but TBL can't make THAT much of a difference, and the difference between second and third at this moment is mathematically insignificant, it's the semi's and finals that count anyway! Wish Quique and all the guys good luck, and tell Hebert I said hey, and that I'd > kinda like a Valiant. He'll get the joke! > > Matt Frederick > ---- Ryan Smith wrote: > Derek, > The website has information to the contrary. It looks like TBL has kicked in as > well. > CPLR is first, QQ is second, Onda is third, and Seba is fourth, according the > site. > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php > > -------------- Original message from Derek Koopowitz : > -------------- > > Semis are: > > 1. CPLR > 2. ONDA > 3. QQ > 4. Sebart > 5. Jas > 6. Mayer > 7. Akiba > 8. Suzuki > 9. Bernt > 10. Jesky > 11. BPLR > 12. Kaiser > 13. Chad > 14. Zeiner > 15. Danksagmuller > 16. Barbaud > 17. Brett > 18. Matt > 19. Frigerri > 20. Froemming > 21. Ulsamer > 22. Rubin > 23. Zhang Xu Jun > 24. Rombaut > 25. Butuzov > 26. Dierickx > 27. Pokorny > 28. Selva > 29. Schaden > 30. Colombo > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Tony wrote: > > GREAT JOB TEAM USA!!!! > > Tony Stillman, President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > Brunswick, GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:51 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's > > Sweet! > > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's > > Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very > last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. > > Jason got a 501. > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight > (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly > in the afternoon there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dkrev at shaw.ca Wed Aug 26 12:40:58 2009 From: dkrev at shaw.ca (dkrev at shaw.ca) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:40:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Contest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1307307952-1251319255-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1530179723-@bxe1058.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I am heading down so I will see you there Rex. Sent from Dave's Crackberry -----Original Message----- From: Rex Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 10:22:23 To: nsrca-dist8 at lists.nsrca.org; NSRCA-discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Contest _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From mjfrederick at cox.net Wed Aug 26 12:41:25 2009 From: mjfrederick at cox.net (mjfrederick at cox.net) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:41:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <082620092035.6223.4A959C73000C960A0000184F22230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> Message-ID: <20090826164123.7VBP3.103304.imail@eastrmwml38> Geez.... More of a difference that I would have imagined... Yeah, I thought Quique had taken a round when I was checking the scores last night, but that was before Christophe had flown for Panel 4. Heck, he won it last time without taking a round... he can do it again! Matt ---- Ryan Smith wrote: I see now that the calculations are correct. I think Quique should have gotten a 966 for round one, versus the 957 he's listed as having, however. And on the official site, TBL has been calculated from what I can see. FWIW, TBL made 10 raw points worth of difference for one of QQ's rounds. Thanks for the clarification! -------------- Original message from : -------------- > Ryan, > I pulled the raw data from that website and got the same results as Derek. If you click on the link that says "Preliminares" on the left side it will give you the normalized ranking (the same one Derek posted, and my calculations agree with). Of course, we have no way of knowing if TBL was applied to the raw scores they're using, so things could easily change, but TBL can't make THAT much of a difference, and the difference between second and third at this moment is mathematically insignificant, it's the semi's and finals that count anyway! Wish Quique and all the guys good luck, and tell Hebert I said hey, and that I'd > kinda like a Valiant. He'll get the joke! > > Matt Frederick > ---- Ryan Smith wrote: > Derek, > The website has information to the contrary. It looks like TBL has kicked in as > well. > CPLR is first, QQ is second, Onda is third, and Seba is fourth, according the > site. > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php > > -------------- Original message from Derek Koopowitz : > -------------- > > Semis are: > > 1. CPLR > 2. ONDA > 3. QQ > 4. Sebart > 5. Jas > 6. Mayer > 7. Akiba > 8. Suzuki > 9. Bernt > 10. Jesky > 11. BPLR > 12. Kaiser > 13. Chad > 14. Zeiner > 15. Danksagmuller > 16. Barbaud > 17. Brett > 18. Matt > 19. Frigerri > 20. Froemming > 21. Ulsamer > 22. Rubin > 23. Zhang Xu Jun > 24. Rombaut > 25. Butuzov > 26. Dierickx > 27. Pokorny > 28. Selva > 29. Schaden > 30. Colombo > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Tony wrote: > > GREAT JOB TEAM USA!!!! > > Tony Stillman, President > Radio South, Inc. > 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 > Brunswick, GA 31525 > 1-800-962-7802 > www.radiosouthrc.com > > > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Mark Hunt > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:51 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's > > Sweet! > > > > > From: Derek Koopowitz > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's > > Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well (very > last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his scores. > > Jason got a 501. > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark wrote: > Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid flight > (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason who both fly > in the afternoon there. > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Wed Aug 26 13:31:27 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:31:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's In-Reply-To: <082620091942.21072.4A9590200005D6C00000525022230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> References: <984417.76889.qm@web1104.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <2A3A1A3E-7EDD-4DF2-B25D-2CF5A561DFE4@socal.rr.com> <4A948885.2070604@comcast.net> <000701ca25f4$15c23ee0$4146bca0$@net> <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B749A@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <3454543c0908261118y3ecab7f6qdb7247f812167d77@mail.gmail.com> <304823.39320.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <5937341CF8B148FDB286C05FF6F45910@Tony> <3454543c0908261222j483ea4e7n92bc7c90d1ae92c0@mail.gmail.com> <082620091942.21072.4A9590200005D6C00000525022230682229B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF960B090E9D0E039C@att.net> Message-ID: <3454543c0908261431q5a5b2deeka0661c686497e22a@mail.gmail.com> Interesting because I'm looking at the scoresheet that was handed out at the meeting... On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:42 PM, Ryan Smith wrote: > Derek, > > The website has information to the contrary. It looks like TBL has kicked > in as well. > > CPLR is first, QQ is second, Onda is third, and Seba is fourth, according > the site. > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php > > > -------------- Original message from Derek Koopowitz < > derekkoopowitz at gmail.com>: -------------- > > Semis are: > > 1. CPLR > 2. ONDA > 3. QQ > 4. Sebart > 5. Jas > 6. Mayer > 7. Akiba > 8. Suzuki > 9. Bernt > 10. Jesky > 11. BPLR > 12. Kaiser > 13. Chad > 14. Zeiner > 15. Danksagmuller > 16. Barbaud > 17. Brett > 18. Matt > 19. Frigerri > 20. Froemming > 21. Ulsamer > 22. Rubin > 23. Zhang Xu Jun > 24. Rombaut > 25. Butuzov > 26. Dierickx > 27. Pokorny > 28. Selva > 29. Schaden > 30. Colombo > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:14 PM, Tony wrote: > >> GREAT JOB TEAM USA!!!! >> >> >> >> Tony Stillman, President >> >> Radio South, Inc. >> >> 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 >> >> Brunswick, GA 31525 >> >> 1-800-962-7802 >> >> www.radiosouthrc.com >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto: >> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] *On Behalf Of *Mark Hunt >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:51 PM >> *To:* General pattern discussion >> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's >> >> >> >> Sweet! >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Derek Koopowitz >> *To:* General pattern discussion >> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM >> *Subject:* Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC's >> >> Brett flew a 466 (if I recall)... Jason just landed and flew very well >> (very last pilot to fly today). It is now 7:15pm and we're waiting for his >> scores. >> >> Jason got a 501. >> >> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Atwood, Mark >> wrote: >> >> Looks like QQ put up a burner today (505) and Andrew flew another solid >> flight (468) beating Akiba today. Waiting on scores for Brett and Jason >> who both fly in the afternoon there. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Wed Aug 26 17:54:24 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:54:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest In-Reply-To: <990015.49853.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B8@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <990015.49853.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004d01ca26b9$5efc2ab0$1cf48010$@net> If anyone who plans to attend could e-mail me your info I?ll get some of the data entry done in advance of the contest. My e-mail address is pcosky at comcast.net Pete From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _____ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion ; Dan Bregar Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:47:07 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest Is anyone going to the St. Clairesville contest looking to share a room? Dan Bregar is new to pattern, this will be his first contest and he?s looking for someone to split a room with. If you are going and can help out, I?ve copied him on this email (he?s not on the list yet) please contact him off list. -Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Wed Aug 26 18:12:58 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:12:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B8@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><990015.49853.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004d01ca26b9$5efc2ab0$1cf48010$@net> Message-ID: <000e01ca26bb$fdb11060$0200a8c0@kencopepere> Wish I could make it...been way too long ----- Original Message ----- From: Pete Cosky To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest If anyone who plans to attend could e-mail me your info I?ll get some of the data entry done in advance of the contest. My e-mail address is pcosky at comcast.net Pete From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion ; Dan Bregar Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:47:07 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest Is anyone going to the St. Clairesville contest looking to share a room? Dan Bregar is new to pattern, this will be his first contest and he?s looking for someone to split a room with. If you are going and can help out, I?ve copied him on this email (he?s not on the list yet) please contact him off list. -Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Wed Aug 26 18:54:19 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:54:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question Message-ID: <305911.58210.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What schedule do they fly for the semi finals? How many pilots go into the Finals? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From mjfrederick at cox.net Wed Aug 26 18:58:58 2009 From: mjfrederick at cox.net (Matthew Frederick) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 02:58:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question References: <305911.58210.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'm pretty sure the F pattern is flown in the Semifinals. From what I understand we pretty much follow the WC format for the F3A competition at the Nats. Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Kane" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question > What schedule do they fly for the semi finals? How many pilots go into > the Finals? > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 27 06:33:10 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:33:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest In-Reply-To: <004d01ca26b9$5efc2ab0$1cf48010$@net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B73B8@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <990015.49853.qm@web32708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <004d01ca26b9$5efc2ab0$1cf48010$@net> Message-ID: <444629.56584.qm@web82106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Pete, I sent you all of my info. Thanks Anthony ________________________________ From: Pete Cosky To: General pattern discussion Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 9:54:53 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest If anyone who plans to attend could e-mail me your info I?ll get some of the data entry done in advance of the contest. ? My e-mail address is pcosky at comcast.net ? Pete ? From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Kane Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:33 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest ? ? ? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ? ? ________________________________ From:"Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion ; Dan Bregar Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 2:47:07 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest Is anyone going to the St. Clairesville contest looking to share a room?? Dan Bregar is new to pattern, this will be his first contest and he?s looking for someone to split a room with. ? If you are going and can help out, I?ve copied him on this email (he?s not on the list yet) please contact him off list. ? -Mark -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Thu Aug 27 06:36:03 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:36:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. Message-ID: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, ? I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then.?So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,,?? I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards?who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene?who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. ? Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved?on a world team level?that is?competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. ? Larry Lewis ?919-231-4983? home ?919-215-3946? cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jlkonn at hotmail.com Thu Aug 27 06:44:29 2009 From: jlkonn at hotmail.com (John Konneker) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:44:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. In-Reply-To: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Bob, The FAI F3P rules begin in Annex M of this secion of the FAI Sporting Code. ftp://www.fai.org/sporting_code/sc4/sc4_f3_aerobatics_09.pdf JLK Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:36:01 -0700 From: bob at toprudder.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 27 07:03:43 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:03:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City OK In-Reply-To: References: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <638925.63957.qm@web82108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have to travel to OKC in mid September for almost a week and would be interested in checking out he RC flying scene. Are there any flying fields in or near OKC? Thanks Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Thu Aug 27 07:18:45 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:18:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word In-Reply-To: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <197683.17731.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Larry's message brings back a point I've been trying to make for quite a while. Regarding the letter that he received from the boy's mother: ? "We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club." ? It sounds like this kid would be a perfect candidate for a new Pattern pilot! Somehow he found out about "F3P" but NOT Pattern in general. How is that possible? When we start the discussions about "Growing Pattern" and everyone wanders off to find the solutions such as "make the sequences easier", "eliminate the weight requirement", etc. please try to remember this message. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:36 AM I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, ? I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then.?So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,,?? I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards?who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene?who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. ? Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved?on a world team level?that is?competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. ? Larry Lewis ?919-231-4983? home ?919-215-3946? cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Aug 27 07:27:01 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:27:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. In-Reply-To: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6B4036C62E924408A358E100EE1524FB@jaysdesktop> Kathy, if you look at http://www.nsrca.us and http://www.nsrca.us/calendartop/calendar.html you will find lots of info. Patrick is in the District 2 group and if he follows that link he will find info on local, or near local, flyers. If he is able to attend on of the two remaining contests he will see what F3A is all about and meet lots of help. If he chooses to fly, and you can fly anything in the Sportsman class, then the patterns he must learn are on the NSRCA site. Contact me off the list for more info. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:36 AM To: NSRCA Mailing List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rjo626 at aol.com Thu Aug 27 07:52:10 2009 From: rjo626 at aol.com (rjo626 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:52:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok Message-ID: <8CBF5456ABAB45E-2024-3F4F@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> ???? There are several. www.baxterfield.com???? is the club I belong to. I know of one at the OU campus,? www.flycorcs.com ?and one near Lake Hefner (TORKS) www.torks.org/site?? ????? www.oksoonersquadron.netfirms.com?? is a little north of OKC. ? ???? Later! ??????????? RJO -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From drmikedds at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 27 07:59:45 2009 From: drmikedds at sbcglobal.net (michael s harrison) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 15:59:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word In-Reply-To: <197683.17731.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <197683.17731.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <002701ca272f$5cf72f50$16e58df0$@net> I believe the mother needs to get involved in a club. Needs to accept a little of the accountability. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:19 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Larry's message brings back a point I've been trying to make for quite a while. Regarding the letter that he received from the boy's mother: "We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club." It sounds like this kid would be a perfect candidate for a new Pattern pilot! Somehow he found out about "F3P" but NOT Pattern in general. How is that possible? When we start the discussions about "Growing Pattern" and everyone wanders off to find the solutions such as "make the sequences easier", "eliminate the weight requirement", etc. please try to remember this message. :) John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:36 AM I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeffghughes at comcast.net Thu Aug 27 08:17:38 2009 From: jeffghughes at comcast.net (jeffghughes at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:17:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. In-Reply-To: <6B4036C62E924408A358E100EE1524FB@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: <1685385970.4827891251389857243.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I don't think Kathy is on this distribution list. And lest we forget, all pattern fliers aren't?on this list either. Maybe someone could go through the membership roles and find someone in Greenville and have them contact them. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Marshall" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:26:56 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. Kathy, if you look at http://www.nsrca.us and http://www.nsrca.us/calendartop/calendar.html you will find lots of info. Patrick is in the District 2 group and if he follows that link he will find info on local, or near local, flyers. If he is able to attend on of the two remaining contests he will see what F3A is all about and meet lots of help. If he chooses to fly, and you can fly anything in the Sportsman class, then the patterns he must learn are on the NSRCA site. Contact me off the list for more info. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Richards Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:36 AM To: NSRCA Mailing List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, ? I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then.?So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,,?? I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards ?who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene?who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. ? Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved?on a world team level?that is?competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis ?919-231-4983? home ?919-215-3946? cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Thu Aug 27 08:38:35 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 16:38:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok In-Reply-To: <8CBF5456ABAB45E-2024-3F4F@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBF5456ABAB45E-2024-3F4F@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <364515.19342.qm@web112116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Also out in Yukon at Westside RC.? - west of OKC a few miles. ?http://www.westside-rc.org/ ________________________________ From: "rjo626 at aol.com" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:51:46 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok ???? There are several. www.baxterfield.com???? is the club I belong to. I know of one at the OU campus,? www.flycorcs.com ?and one near Lake Hefner (TORKS) www.torks.org/site?? ????? www.oksoonersquadron.netfirms.com?? is a little north of OKC. ???? Later! ??????????? RJO -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 09:15:35 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:15:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question In-Reply-To: <305911.58210.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <305911.58210.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908271015q7f823d94w377e8aaf19b1da37@mail.gmail.com> They fly the F schedule - 30 pilots are going. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Bob Kane wrote: > What schedule do they fly for the semi finals? How many pilots go into the > Finals? > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Aug 27 09:17:44 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:17:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908271015q7f823d94w377e8aaf19b1da37@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <516047215.4283631251393464019.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Are they flying now or there is a break day? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Koopowitz" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:15:34 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question They fly the F schedule - 30 pilots are going. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Bob Kane < getterflash at yahoo.com > wrote: What schedule do they fly for the semi finals? ?How many pilots go into the Finals? ?Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 09:18:53 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:18:53 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question In-Reply-To: <516047215.4283631251393464019.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> References: <3454543c0908271015q7f823d94w377e8aaf19b1da37@mail.gmail.com> <516047215.4283631251393464019.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <3454543c0908271018p316471d9r492b05d2965cc7a9@mail.gmail.com> Today is a day off... semis is on Friday and then Finals on Saturday. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Vicente "Vince" Bortone < vicenterc at comcast.net> wrote: > Are they flying now or there is a break day? > > Vicente "Vince" Bortone > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Derek Koopowitz" > To: "General pattern discussion" > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:15:34 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question > > They fly the F schedule - 30 pilots are going. > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Bob Kane wrote: > >> What schedule do they fly for the semi finals? How many pilots go into >> the Finals? >> >> Bob Kane >> getterflash at yahoo.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing > list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Thu Aug 27 09:24:55 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:24:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question In-Reply-To: <3454543c0908271018p316471d9r492b05d2965cc7a9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1942772168.4287691251393894843.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> OK.? That explain why it was quiet.? I imagine all are trying to practice F and unknows today.? Thanks, Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Koopowitz" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:18:52 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question Today is a day off... semis is on Friday and then Finals on Saturday. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Vicente "Vince" Bortone < vicenterc at comcast.net > wrote: Are they flying now or there is a break day? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Koopowitz" < derekkoopowitz at gmail.com > To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:15:34 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semi finals question They fly the F schedule - 30 pilots are going. On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Bob Kane < getterflash at yahoo.com > wrote: What schedule do they fly for the semi finals? ?How many pilots go into the Finals? ?Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scott at rcfoamy.com Thu Aug 27 09:28:46 2009 From: scott at rcfoamy.com (scott anderson) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:28:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Who all Comming ? Message-ID: <070C95B104364FC9972E70F523F219B7@ScottPC> So who is all comming ?? I know some that pre-registered.... Including A.C. in FAI Pre - Reg with Name and Freq, and AMA # & class... Field will be open Friday for practice !!! Weather is looking great ! Hi ALL. We have a room rate of $ 47.69 at the Motel 6 865-633-6646 tell them it is for the "House Mountain" contest to get that rate. CAMPING ON SITE NO HOOK UP's............. Please pre-register or questions at sales at rcfoamy.com with name,class and channel and AMA number..... See you this weekend... Scott & Mike House Mountain Pattern Classic August 29 & 30, 2009, Knoxville, TN New Venue, Wide Open Spaces!! Field open for flying at noon on Friday CD: Scott Anderson (865) 712-1658 Asst: Mike Robinson (706) 463-3407 scott at rcfoamy.com shineyobject at gmail.com Pilots' Meeting 9:00am Saturday Entry fee is $30.00 Come Enjoy a More Relaxed Post-Nats Competition In Beautiful East Tennessee Scenery!! All AMA Classes & FAI schedule Contestant Judging Lunch available on-site Saturday Directions and motel information are on page 2 Directions to Field: Take the East Town Mall (Washington Pike) exit 8 off Interstate 640 (map below). Stay on Washington Pike for ~8 miles, past the intersection with Roberts Road (House Mountain convenience mart on the right). You're now less than a mile from the turn-in to the field, which will be on your left just past a horse stable/farm on the right. The satellite view, second below, shows Roberts Road, the horse farm and the flying site. GPS: N36 07.591, W83 47.641 Motels @ Exit 398 on I-40 east of Knoxville: Motel 6 (865) 633-6646 Econo Lodge Inn (865) 932-1217 LaQuinta (865) 633-5100 Best Western 865/544-7737 Hol.Day Inn Exp 865-5255100 Quality Inn East (865) 342-0003 These are all relatively new Motels - Motel 6 is a multi-story building, looks very New and clean, inside room entrance. This exit is closest to the field - maps >From this exit will be available -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Thu Aug 27 09:31:48 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 17:31:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok In-Reply-To: <364515.19342.qm@web112116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <8CBF5456ABAB45E-2024-3F4F@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> <364515.19342.qm@web112116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <464439.41999.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for the info guys. Now I just need to find a way to get a plane down there and some time away from work to fly it. I definitely intend to visit the local flying fields in the evenings even if I don't get a chance to fly. That will make being away from my pattern planes the week leading up to the district championship contest more palatable. Thanks again Anthony ________________________________ From: brian young To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:38:19 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok Also out in Yukon at Westside RC.? - west of OKC a few miles. ?http://www.westside-rc.org/ ________________________________ From: "rjo626 at aol.com" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:51:46 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok ???? There are several. www.baxterfield.com???? is the club I belong to. I know of one at the OU campus,? www.flycorcs.com ?and one near Lake Hefner (TORKS) www.torks.org/site?? ????? www.oksoonersquadron.netfirms.com?? is a little north of OKC. ???? Later! ??????????? RJO -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 27 11:39:19 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:39:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Message-ID: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Thu Aug 27 11:47:45 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:47:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: Bill, are you limited to a 4 stroke? OS makes a 1.20 2C that has lots of power. The major differences will probably in the exhaust system. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Aug 27 12:01:56 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:01:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels . They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better . Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jferrell13 at triad.rr.com Thu Aug 27 12:15:26 2009 From: jferrell13 at triad.rr.com (John Ferrell) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:15:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. References: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B49DCCB19024E0491D0D56F6E5EE96C@xppro2> If you know how to reach David Hoppes in Spartanberg I bet he would give Bob Richards a positive response... John Ferrell W8CCW "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue." -Barry Goldwater "You don't get harmony when everybody sings the same note." -Doug Floyd ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Richards To: NSRCA Mailing List Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:36 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Thu Aug 27 13:19:08 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:19:08 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: Tony and Jay: Jay first: I've used the Webra 1.20 2 stroke, and while it's a good engine, mine is worn out. That doesn't rule out a 2 stroke, but I've always felt that the 4 stroke "followed" what I wanted for pattern somewhat better than the 2 stroke. But, no, I'm not locked in to a 4 stroke. Tony: Actually, I have the best possible engine now. Buff Miller who was flying his Sport at Green Sea with a Y.S. 110, came up to me after the 3rd round, and said "You're definitely outperforming me." Which I was, after observing Buff's flight. Most of my Pattern is flown at a quite reduced setting, but I have LOTS more under my left thumb solely for maximum vertical figures. My sole concern is that a 20 year old engine, (I bought it in 1989, when they were first introduced) can't last forever, and parts can become a problem. I don't want to ground the airplane for want of a powerplant suitable for Pattern. So, I'm gathering pertinent information ahead of time. Actually, it's been running perfectly for years; I just know that, (like me) it can't go on forever, and I want to be ready with information as to where to go when I need to. Gentlemen, thanks for your input. It is definitely noted, and will be condsidered. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway. This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels.. They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN'T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can't be better.. Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Thu Aug 27 13:33:01 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 21:33:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <431048.48392.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Bill, ?Well if you want a 4-stroke?engine that WILL last almost forever, might I suggest a 1964 Harley Big Twin (Pan-Head)? Mine finally needs a valve job but that's not a problem because I can still get parts. LOL ? John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 5:19 PM Tony and Jay: Jay first:? I've used the Webra 1.20 2 stroke, and while it's a good engine, mine is worn out.? That doesn't rule out a 2 stroke, but I've always felt that the 4 stroke "followed" what I wanted for pattern somewhat better than the 2 stroke.? But, no, I'm not locked in to a 4 stroke. Tony: Actually, I have the best possible engine now.? Buff Miller who was flying his Sport at Green Sea with a Y.S. 110, came up to me after the 3rd round, and said "You're definitely outperforming me."? Which I was, after observing Buff's flight.? Most of my Pattern is flown at a quite reduced setting, but I have LOTS more under my left thumb solely for maximum vertical figures.? My sole concern is that a 20 year old engine, (I bought it in 1989, when they were first introduced) can't last forever, and parts can become a problem.? I don't want to ground the airplane for want of a powerplant suitable for Pattern.? So, I'm gathering pertinent information ahead of time.? Actually, it's been running perfectly for years; I just know that, (like me)? it can't go on forever, and I want to be ready with information as to where to go when I need to. Gentlemen, thanks for your input.? It is definitely noted, and will be condsidered. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! ? Reminds me of a situation I had years ago.? I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS.? Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS!? Anyway?? This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd.? After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels?.? They wanted me to fly their fuel.? I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels.? They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power.? Well, I had to take exception to that.? You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class!? I flew in 10-15 contests each year.? In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug.? The engine never quit, was 110% reliable.? So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better!? It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better?. ? Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!!? Why change? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA ? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines ? All: Looking for opinions here.? I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even.? Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old.? Runs fine, but maybe not forever.? It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question:? Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly? engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks.? BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. ? Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Thu Aug 27 14:36:03 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:36:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <71D925CE3041432297DF4342F35B0B00@Tony> Bill: Get Richard to send you a piston/sleeve/ring for it and a set of bearings . That is about all you would need for a rebuild to last another 20 years! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:19 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Tony and Jay: Jay first: I've used the Webra 1.20 2 stroke, and while it's a good engine, mine is worn out. That doesn't rule out a 2 stroke, but I've always felt that the 4 stroke "followed" what I wanted for pattern somewhat better than the 2 stroke. But, no, I'm not locked in to a 4 stroke. Tony: Actually, I have the best possible engine now. Buff Miller who was flying his Sport at Green Sea with a Y.S. 110, came up to me after the 3rd round, and said "You're definitely outperforming me." Which I was, after observing Buff's flight. Most of my Pattern is flown at a quite reduced setting, but I have LOTS more under my left thumb solely for maximum vertical figures. My sole concern is that a 20 year old engine, (I bought it in 1989, when they were first introduced) can't last forever, and parts can become a problem. I don't want to ground the airplane for want of a powerplant suitable for Pattern. So, I'm gathering pertinent information ahead of time. Actually, it's been running perfectly for years; I just know that, (like me) it can't go on forever, and I want to be ready with information as to where to go when I need to. Gentlemen, thanks for your input. It is definitely noted, and will be condsidered. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels . They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better . Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dunnaway at hbcomm.net Thu Aug 27 17:02:26 2009 From: dunnaway at hbcomm.net (Joe Dunnaway) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:02:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok In-Reply-To: <464439.41999.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <8CBF5456ABAB45E-2024-3F4F@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> <364515.19342.qm@web112116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <464439.41999.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A972C7D.8040308@hbcomm.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Thu Aug 27 17:03:49 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:03:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word In-Reply-To: <002701ca272f$5cf72f50$16e58df0$@net> References: <822332.39781.qm@web1107.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com><197683.17731.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <002701ca272f$5cf72f50$16e58df0$@net> Message-ID: <02A608AF14244B77BDCF84346477E85E@LLDPC> Michael H. That is a harsh statement and I strongly disagree with the message. I searched for 3 years knowing that Pattern existed.Found Pattern links and still took about 3 more years of practicing by myself before I finally stumbled across a link to a NSRCA VP (Tom Weedon) at the time.He got me in touch with Steve Maxwell and Jeff Hughes in Central Indiana.Couple of great ambassadors for Pattern. I knew pattern existed.I knew nothing of NSRCA. Do not be so short sighted to think one can go onto the AMA site and find it.If you know it's there, it's easy. I consider myself to be above average intelligence, except when I do something stupid. It hurt both IMAC and Pattern when the AMA Magazine started alternating articles.I used to look forward to Eric articles...Now I'm just turned off by the AMA's approach to both and don't really care or look for it.Pretty sad. To my knowledge, I'm the only one active in Pattern (very part time) in Southern Indiana area. The next closest is about 2 hours away that I'm aware of. Larry Diamond _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:00 AM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word I believe the mother needs to get involved in a club. Needs to accept a little of the accountability. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:19 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Larry's message brings back a point I've been trying to make for quite a while. Regarding the letter that he received from the boy's mother: "We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club." It sounds like this kid would be a perfect candidate for a new Pattern pilot! Somehow he found out about "F3P" but NOT Pattern in general. How is that possible? When we start the discussions about "Growing Pattern" and everyone wanders off to find the solutions such as "make the sequences easier", "eliminate the weight requirement", etc. please try to remember this message. :) John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:36 AM I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Thu Aug 27 17:23:40 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:23:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBF59537A433C3-3730-105F7@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> Actually, it sounds like bragging to me. Bragging in Pattern is always part of the fun. I'm sure some will say Nay, but hey, that's part of the fun too. If we didn't have opinions might as well not do this at all MattK -----Original Message----- From: Tony <tony at radiosouthrc.com> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! ? Reminds me of a situation I had years ago.? I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS.? Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS!? Anyway?? This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd.? After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels?.? They wanted me to fly their fuel.? I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels.? They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power.? Well, I had to take exception to that.? You see, in the 2 ?=2 0years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class!? I flew in 10-15 contests each year.? In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug.? The engine never quit, was 110% reliable.? So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better!? It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better?. ? Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!!? Why change? ? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA? 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines ? All: Looking for opinions here.? I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even.? Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old.? Runs fine, but maybe not forever.? It turns an APC at 88 00+ and offers plenty of performance. Question:? Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly? engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks.? BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. ? Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ruddercable at yahoo.com Thu Aug 27 17:33:24 2009 From: ruddercable at yahoo.com (Robert Gainey) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:33:24 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module In-Reply-To: <744810.37114.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <744810.37114.qm@web33301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <502593.45152.qm@web59616.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Larry I have the Futaba module and it works great. It works on my 9C and my 9Z. Just set the transmitter to PPM and plug it in. No extra wires, no conversions, no wireless router antenna or whatever. Just plug it in and enjoy. Its made by Futaba for their radios. Not knocking the spectrum stuff. I have friends that fly it and it works great also. However, I preferred to use what was engineered to work with my radios by the people that made the radios. Some of the best money I have spent on this hobby in recent years. Robert Gainey ? ________________________________ From: Larry Krutz To: General pattern discussion Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 2:59:30 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module I have a Futaba 9C currently on 72 MHZ. I see that both Futaba and Spektrum have conversion packages for 2.4 access. Any comments on either or both? (Spektrum is offering a good price right now!) Thanx-- Larry --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Jay Marshall wrote: > From: Jay Marshall > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Digital Pug-In module > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:41 AM > > > > >? > > >? > > > > > > > >? > > > > Can?t > speak to JR, but the plug-in > 2.4 module on my Futaba 9C has worked fine. The only > problem is that if you use > a tray it will probably have to be > modified. > > ? > > > > Jay Marshall > > > > -----Original > Message----- > > From: > nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze > > Sent: > Tuesday, August 25, > 2009 > 10:32 > AM > > To: > General pattern >? discussion > > Subject: > [NSRCA-discussion] > Digital Pug-In module > > ? > > > > All: > > > > > > > I bought from > a pattern fllyer, a JR > 9393 Transmitter and receiver on 72 megs, with a frequency > synthesizer,? > While I do prefer to fly on 6 meters, I thought I might use > this transmitter > with a 6 meter synthesizer. > > > > > > However, a > good friend of mine > suggested getting a conversion unit and go directly to 2.4 > Gig.? I know > that it's ?definitely the coming thing, even > though I've been satisfied > with the older system. > > > > > > However, (and > this is where my doubt > comes in) I was told by a hobby shop owner, that he > "doesn't trust the 2.4 > module, because, it's a basically a converter, and > because the entire system > wasn't designed to be used at 2.4 Gig to begin with, he > doubts the plug-in > module's reliability or safety of flight."? > > > > > > > Any advice > will be appreciated. > > > > > > ? > > > > > > Bill > Glaze > > > > > >? > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at toprudder.com Thu Aug 27 17:35:48 2009 From: bob at toprudder.com (Bob Richards) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 01:35:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. In-Reply-To: <1685385970.4827891251389857243.JavaMail.root@sz0016a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <68965.19492.qm@web1103.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I forwarded the responses to her. ? I was hoping someone in the Greenville area might contact her. I don't know anyone in that area that flies pattern. ? Bob R. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, jeffghughes at comcast.net wrote: #yiv2078889597 p {margin:0;} I don't think Kathy is on this distribution list. And lest we forget, all pattern fliers aren't?on this list either. Maybe someone could go through the membership roles and find someone in Greenville and have them contact them. ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kvelez at rochester.rr.com Thu Aug 27 18:44:52 2009 From: kvelez at rochester.rr.com (Ken Velez) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 02:44:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Needed items In-Reply-To: <02A608AF14244B77BDCF84346477E85E@LLDPC> Message-ID: Hi all, Looking for a 1.40 2C carbon pipe Boly, Aero Slave or ES Short preferred. Also looking for an OS 1.40 cylinder head, new or used but not repaired meaning not heli-coils on the plug threads. TIA Ken -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Thu Aug 27 18:54:57 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 02:54:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Needed items In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBF5A202CC44A4-30A8-384C@webmail-d063.sysops.aol.com> Hey, I am also looking for a 2C pipe, a Hatori used. Contact me off list MattK -----Original Message----- From: Ken Velez <kvelez at rochester.rr.com> To: 'General pattern discussion' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 10:44 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Needed items Hi all, ? Looking for a 1.40 2C carbon pipe Boly, Aero Slave or ES Short preferred. Also looking for an OS 1.40 cylinder head, new or used but not repaired meaning not heli-coils on the plug threads. ? TIA ? Ken _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Thu Aug 27 19:00:12 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:00:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> Message-ID: <173071.40379.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> You should be able to rebuild that engine until the world ends. Another good engine is the 140FZ, very friendly. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:35:50 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 27 19:28:17 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:28:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word In-Reply-To: <02A608AF14244B77BDCF84346477E85E@LLDPC> Message-ID: Yes, we are nearly invisible, however a phone call or e-mail to the district VP would likely have gotten you connected as well as a heads-up on district contests. AMA exists to serve it's members. The NSRCA was represented at the first contest I went to somewhere around 1980 and I was offered membership. Sorry I'm not more sympatric. Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:04 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Michael H. That is a harsh statement and I strongly disagree with the message. I searched for 3 years knowing that Pattern existed.Found Pattern links and still took about 3 more years of practicing by myself before I finally stumbled across a link to a NSRCA VP (Tom Weedon) at the time.He got me in touch with Steve Maxwell and Jeff Hughes in Central Indiana.Couple of great ambassadors for Pattern. I knew pattern existed.I knew nothing of NSRCA. Do not be so short sighted to think one can go onto the AMA site and find it.If you know it's there, it's easy. I consider myself to be above average intelligence, except when I do something stupid. It hurt both IMAC and Pattern when the AMA Magazine started alternating articles.I used to look forward to Eric articles...Now I'm just turned off by the AMA's approach to both and don't really care or look for it.Pretty sad. To my knowledge, I'm the only one active in Pattern (very part time) in Southern Indiana area. The next closest is about 2 hours away that I'm aware of. Larry Diamond _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:00 AM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word I believe the mother needs to get involved in a club. Needs to accept a little of the accountability. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:19 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Larry's message brings back a point I've been trying to make for quite a while. Regarding the letter that he received from the boy's mother: "We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club." It sounds like this kid would be a perfect candidate for a new Pattern pilot! Somehow he found out about "F3P" but NOT Pattern in general. How is that possible? When we start the discussions about "Growing Pattern" and everyone wanders off to find the solutions such as "make the sequences easier", "eliminate the weight requirement", etc. please try to remember this message. :) John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:36 AM I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 27 19:30:19 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:30:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: <8CBF59537A433C3-3730-105F7@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Hi Matt, how's this; I've driven 5000 miles this summer going to contests without leaving the NW. Retirement is great! Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:23 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Actually, it sounds like bragging to me. Bragging in Pattern is always part of the fun. I'm sure some will say Nay, but hey, that's part of the fun too. If we didn't have opinions might as well not do this at all MattK -----Original Message----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway? This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels?. They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better?. Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org ] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most u ser-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 _______________________________________________? NSRCA-discussion mailing list? NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org ? http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Thu Aug 27 19:34:18 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:34:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: <8CBF59537A433C3-3730-105F7@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! Rex From: jnhiller at earthlink.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:31:27 -0700 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Hi Matt, how's this; I've driven 5000 miles this summer going to contests without leaving the NW. Retirement is great! Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:23 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Actually, it sounds like bragging to me. Bragging in Pattern is always part of the fun. I'm sure some will say Nay, but hey, that's part of the fun too. If we didn't have opinions might as well not do this at all MattK -----Original Message----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway? This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels?. They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better?. Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most u ser-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 27 19:55:58 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 03:55:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator Message-ID: http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and mileage radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. Jim H From lld613 at psci.net Thu Aug 27 20:00:51 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:00:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word In-Reply-To: References: <02A608AF14244B77BDCF84346477E85E@LLDPC> Message-ID: <4858CCC3DFC3474BAEBA2601F5950ED5@LLDPC> Ahhh Jim. You make my point in your post. Your assumption is that folks know where to look and get the info.Not so.Your response also assumes that you know how to find the DVP to e-mail or call. Perhaps I knew these things but was too lazy to pick up a phone or send an e-mail???? I did call the District VP once I figured out that NSRCA was Pattern.I may be a bit dense because this only took about three years. I've been flying RC since 1985 on and off. I watched a young Chip Hyde fly in an 80's pattern contest.I wanted to get into pattern since that day. I retired from the USN and found my self in Southern Indiana.Everyone I talked to at three major clubs gave me blank looks when I asked about Pattern. My opinion is that it hasn't changed. Although, everyone that sees me at the flying field knows I fly pattern albeit not well. If we as the NSRCA believe we are visible and easy to find, how is it that on RCU newbies keep asking how to get started.What is Pattern.Where are the contests..??? I mean.All this can be found on the NSRCA website right???? You say the NSRCA VP was at your first contest.If someone doesn't know where the contests are, how do they get there to be offered a membership? We must keep an open mind and never assume, we are easy to find. Larry Diamond _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:29 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Yes, we are nearly invisible, however a phone call or e-mail to the district VP would likely have gotten you connected as well as a heads-up on district contests. AMA exists to serve it's members. The NSRCA was represented at the first contest I went to somewhere around 1980 and I was offered membership. Sorry I'm not more sympatric. Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:04 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Michael H. That is a harsh statement and I strongly disagree with the message. I searched for 3 years knowing that Pattern existed.Found Pattern links and still took about 3 more years of practicing by myself before I finally stumbled across a link to a NSRCA VP (Tom Weedon) at the time.He got me in touch with Steve Maxwell and Jeff Hughes in Central Indiana.Couple of great ambassadors for Pattern. I knew pattern existed.I knew nothing of NSRCA. Do not be so short sighted to think one can go onto the AMA site and find it.If you know it's there, it's easy. I consider myself to be above average intelligence, except when I do something stupid. It hurt both IMAC and Pattern when the AMA Magazine started alternating articles.I used to look forward to Eric articles...Now I'm just turned off by the AMA's approach to both and don't really care or look for it.Pretty sad. To my knowledge, I'm the only one active in Pattern (very part time) in Southern Indiana area. The next closest is about 2 hours away that I'm aware of. Larry Diamond _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:00 AM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word I believe the mother needs to get involved in a club. Needs to accept a little of the accountability. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:19 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Larry's message brings back a point I've been trying to make for quite a while. Regarding the letter that he received from the boy's mother: "We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club." It sounds like this kid would be a perfect candidate for a new Pattern pilot! Somehow he found out about "F3P" but NOT Pattern in general. How is that possible? When we start the discussions about "Growing Pattern" and everyone wanders off to find the solutions such as "make the sequences easier", "eliminate the weight requirement", etc. please try to remember this message. :) John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:36 AM I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lld613 at psci.net Thu Aug 27 20:09:35 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:09:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jim, My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with pattern.... There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have members that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the 70's...There may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in contact with them... Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... Larry Diamond -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM To: NSRCA Mailing List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and mileage radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. Jim H _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From tstebbins at gmail.com Thu Aug 27 20:13:07 2009 From: tstebbins at gmail.com (Tim) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:13:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: So what is your solution. I hear you saying what doesn't work. What do you propose will work ? On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Lisa n Larry wrote: > Jim, > > My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... > > Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with > pattern.... > > There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have > members > that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the > 70's...There > may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in > contact with > them... > > Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... > > Larry Diamond > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N > Hiller > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM > To: NSRCA Mailing List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator > > http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx > > Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and > mileage > radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. > > Jim H > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From lld613 at psci.net Thu Aug 27 20:26:03 2009 From: lld613 at psci.net (Lisa n Larry) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:26:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <99033E10C6CE4190A8A74A4882823E0A@LLDPC> Ok...Here we go again... My thoughts... We need to get an article into one the main stream mags about how to get started in pattern and what is pattern. I believe Eric Henderson did this a few years back... But we need to keep advertising and budget the $$$ in our annual planning. Have an Advertisement that simply says, "Want to Try Pattern...Call your nearest NSRCA District VP", and list all the VP's... Someone covers a large contest...Submit it to the AMA Mags, Fly RC, MAN, etc... Boast Pattern and NSRCA in the same sentence...Folks will start to connect the dots... Secondly, do what I'm doing in my local area...Talk to people, fly the planes...Talk up pattern without pushing it on people... I've haven't been to our local field in over a year...But when Lisa and I showed up, they knew who I was because of the planes and I'm easy to talk with...I've let folks fly my pattern planes... I have CDed Pattern Contests before (not since 2005)... Has it netted a member, nope...But they know if someone has a question about pattern in our club, they can get a hold of me... If I was to actually start making contests again, I would be willing to bet I could get one or two to go with me... That should get this discussion going again... I have also sold 2M planes dirt cheap if I knew someone wanted to try pattern... Larry Diamond -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator So what is your solution. I hear you saying what doesn't work. What do you propose will work ? On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Lisa n Larry wrote: > Jim, > > My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... > > Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with > pattern.... > > There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have > members > that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the > 70's...There > may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in > contact with > them... > > Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... > > Larry Diamond > > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N > Hiller > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM > To: NSRCA Mailing List > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator > > http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx > > Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and > mileage > radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. > > Jim H > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jpavlick at idseng.com Thu Aug 27 20:41:10 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:41:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator References: <99033E10C6CE4190A8A74A4882823E0A@LLDPC> Message-ID: <010f01ca2799$c1de4790$9501a8c0@GW7422> Larry, What you're doing IS a good way to spread the word. Keep doing it. More people need to follow your lead. It may take some time but you WILL see results. Pattern simply doesn't have the "presence" that it once did. Back in the 70's and early 80's Pattern was the top of the game. And EVERYONE knew it. Not anymore. At least not as far as the average R/C pilot goes - they're mostly into "3D". Not that that's a "bad" thing but it explains why most Pattern contests nowadays have about 15 - 20 pilots whereas in the 70's it was closer to 4-5 times that amount. We need to use the internet to our advantage. When you see someone on RCU asking about Pattern - Help them. No matter how busy you are. No matter how "obvious" the answer is. No matter how "stupid" the question is. Better yet, when you see someone on one of the 3D or scale forums asking about things that can be answered with a plug for Pattern - do it. VBG Spread the word. It doesn't cost anything. You won't get evryone but you might get someone. That's all we need to make progress. :) John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa n Larry" To: "'General pattern discussion'" Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:25 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator > Ok...Here we go again... > > My thoughts... > > We need to get an article into one the main stream mags about how to get > started in pattern and what is pattern. > > I believe Eric Henderson did this a few years back... But we need to keep > advertising and budget the $$$ in our annual planning. Have an > Advertisement > that simply says, "Want to Try Pattern...Call your nearest NSRCA District > VP", and list all the VP's... > > Someone covers a large contest...Submit it to the AMA Mags, Fly RC, MAN, > etc... Boast Pattern and NSRCA in the same sentence...Folks will start to > connect the dots... > > Secondly, do what I'm doing in my local area...Talk to people, fly the > planes...Talk up pattern without pushing it on people... > > I've haven't been to our local field in over a year...But when Lisa and I > showed up, they knew who I was because of the planes and I'm easy to talk > with...I've let folks fly my pattern planes... > > I have CDed Pattern Contests before (not since 2005)... > > Has it netted a member, nope...But they know if someone has a question > about > pattern in our club, they can get a hold of me... > > If I was to actually start making contests again, I would be willing to > bet > I could get one or two to go with me... > > That should get this discussion going again... > > I have also sold 2M planes dirt cheap if I knew someone wanted to try > pattern... > > Larry Diamond > > -----Original Message----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim > Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:13 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator > > So what is your solution. I hear you saying what doesn't work. > What do you propose will work ? > > On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Lisa n Larry wrote: > >> Jim, >> >> My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... >> >> Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with >> pattern.... >> >> There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have >> members >> that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the >> 70's...There >> may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in >> contact with >> them... >> >> Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... >> >> Larry Diamond >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N >> Hiller >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM >> To: NSRCA Mailing List >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator >> >> http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx >> >> Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and >> mileage >> radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. >> >> Jim H >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 27 20:54:57 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:54:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word In-Reply-To: <4858CCC3DFC3474BAEBA2601F5950ED5@LLDPC> Message-ID: Ops I guess I wasn't specific enough. AMA VP He has a monthly column in the back OF Model Aviation which all members get at least most of the time. One of the problem we have is many contests are not sanctioned soon enough to get listed in MA. Another problem is the AMA listing of competition events "Radio Control Aerobatics" No mention of the more commonly used term "Pattern". And yes I also meet RC modelers both old and new that are unaware that pattern is "still flown" or know absolutely nothing about it. At one time new club members were exposed to many different competition events fellow club members participated in. In my club I was the only Pattern and Scale competitor for many years. Most have grown old and don't compete any more or participate in fun or float fly activities only. The Pylon and Soaring competitors have separated although some retain multiple club membership. Reading MA over a period of time will expose new members to most of the different competition disciplines once they become aware of the AMA and become a member (many don't). The bottom line is we need to sell it and I'm as guilty as anyone for not promoting pattern. Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:01 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Ahhh Jim. You make my point in your post. Your assumption is that folks know where to look and get the info.Not so.Your response also assumes that you know how to find the DVP to e-mail or call. Perhaps I knew these things but was too lazy to pick up a phone or send an e-mail???? I did call the District VP once I figured out that NSRCA was Pattern.I may be a bit dense because this only took about three years. I've been flying RC since 1985 on and off. I watched a young Chip Hyde fly in an 80's pattern contest.I wanted to get into pattern since that day. I retired from the USN and found my self in Southern Indiana.Everyone I talked to at three major clubs gave me blank looks when I asked about Pattern. My opinion is that it hasn't changed. Although, everyone that sees me at the flying field knows I fly pattern albeit not well. If we as the NSRCA believe we are visible and easy to find, how is it that on RCU newbies keep asking how to get started.What is Pattern.Where are the contests..??? I mean.All this can be found on the NSRCA website right???? You say the NSRCA VP was at your first contest.If someone doesn't know where the contests are, how do they get there to be offered a membership? We must keep an open mind and never assume, we are easy to find. Larry Diamond _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:29 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Yes, we are nearly invisible, however a phone call or e-mail to the district VP would likely have gotten you connected as well as a heads-up on district contests. AMA exists to serve it's members. The NSRCA was represented at the first contest I went to somewhere around 1980 and I was offered membership. Sorry I'm not more sympatric. Jim H -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:04 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Michael H. That is a harsh statement and I strongly disagree with the message. I searched for 3 years knowing that Pattern existed.Found Pattern links and still took about 3 more years of practicing by myself before I finally stumbled across a link to a NSRCA VP (Tom Weedon) at the time.He got me in touch with Steve Maxwell and Jeff Hughes in Central Indiana.Couple of great ambassadors for Pattern. I knew pattern existed.I knew nothing of NSRCA. Do not be so short sighted to think one can go onto the AMA site and find it.If you know it's there, it's easy. I consider myself to be above average intelligence, except when I do something stupid. It hurt both IMAC and Pattern when the AMA Magazine started alternating articles.I used to look forward to Eric articles...Now I'm just turned off by the AMA's approach to both and don't really care or look for it.Pretty sad. To my knowledge, I'm the only one active in Pattern (very part time) in Southern Indiana area. The next closest is about 2 hours away that I'm aware of. Larry Diamond _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of michael s harrison Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:00 AM To: jpavlick at idseng.com; 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word I believe the mother needs to get involved in a club. Needs to accept a little of the accountability. From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:19 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Spreading the word Larry's message brings back a point I've been trying to make for quite a while. Regarding the letter that he received from the boy's mother: "We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club." It sounds like this kid would be a perfect candidate for a new Pattern pilot! Somehow he found out about "F3P" but NOT Pattern in general. How is that possible? When we start the discussions about "Growing Pattern" and everyone wanders off to find the solutions such as "make the sequences easier", "eliminate the weight requirement", etc. please try to remember this message. :) John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bob Richards wrote: From: Bob Richards Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Fw: Question? F3P competitions. To: "NSRCA Mailing List" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 10:36 AM I had this email forwarded to me, I thought I would post it here in case anyone would like to help this young guy out. He is located in Greenville, SC. --- On Thu, 8/27/09, rclarry at aol.com wrote: From: rclarry at aol.com Subject: Re: Question? To: chatwkat1 at aol.com Cc: smaragdz at bellsouth.net, bob at toprudder.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 9:57 AM Hey Kathy, I haven't flown pattern for many years, and only at lower levels then. So I'm not that familiar with the requirements/rules now. But,,,,, I do think I can put you in touch with a couple of guys who can. One of which is a fellow club member Bob Richards who had a very successful pattern career in years past. He has returned to to R/C in recent years and he and his son Matt have competed in IMAC together( pattern competition with giant scale models) with good success. Bob may still have some good points of contact in the pattern scene who could help your son Patrick. I'll forward this e-mail to Bob. Also, I am forwarding this to Horizon Hobby Team Member Ryan Smith of Greensboro NC. Ryan is very active in the pattern scene now and I'm sure he would be more than willing to offer advice or help to your son. Ryan has been very successful in pattern, and currently involved on a world team level that is competing for the USA team now. Another great guy in our sport who I feel could help you and your son. Hope this helps. If you have any questions you feel I may help out with, feel free to call me. Larry Lewis 919-231-4983 home 919-215-3946 cell -----Original Message----- From: chatwkat1 at aol.com To: rclarry at aol.com Sent: Wed, Aug 26, 2009 8:22 pm Subject: Question? Mr. Larry Lewis; I am writing on behalf of my son Patrick Frost age 17. He attends High School in Greenville, SC. While searching for some information on remote control flying I found your event "Children's Charity Fly-in" and found your name. Sir I hope you don't mind me contacting you and I will try to get to the point of my contacting you. Patrick has become interested in flying F3P. He flies, electric motor planes and is a good pilot. We are having a very difficult time finding anyone with any knowledge about pattern flying. We are very limited because we have never become involved in any type of flying club. The High School Patrick attends requires what they call a Senior Project in which the student picks a project to explore and report on at the end of eight months. My question to you is simply can you help us with a name or any information on F3P at this point anything and I do mean anything would be greatly appreciated and highly valued! If he does not come up with someone to talk to in the next few days he is going to have to choose a different topic which would be very disapointing. I sincerely thank you for your time! Kathy Frost 864-963-0592 864-201-2312 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 27 20:57:33 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:57:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you have contacted them and they can't help about the only thing left is to contact AMA. Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Lisa n Larry Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:09 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator Jim, My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with pattern.... There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have members that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the 70's...There may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in contact with them... Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... Larry Diamond -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N Hiller Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM To: NSRCA Mailing List Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and mileage radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. Jim H _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From jnhiller at earthlink.net Thu Aug 27 21:26:57 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:26:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Message-ID: Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. Jim Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! Rex From trexlesh at msn.com Thu Aug 27 21:37:23 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 05:37:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Heated and cooled?!!! Awesome! A person wouldn't ever have to get out of it if they had "Beer Drive Ins".... lol > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > > Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe > Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It > came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. > Jim > > > Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! > > Rex > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Fri Aug 28 00:49:42 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:49:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Go to Louisiana -- they have Margurita drive-throughs. Blew my mind the first time I went through one with my host (doing a lecture @ LSU) an WE drank Margies on the way to his house. And all legal!!!! At 01:37 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: >Heated and cooled?!!! Awesome! A person wouldn't ever have to get >out of it if they had >"Beer Drive Ins".... lol > > > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > > > > Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe > > Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It > > came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. > > Jim > > > > > > Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! > > > > Rex > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mjfrederick at cox.net Fri Aug 28 04:14:52 2009 From: mjfrederick at cox.net (Matthew Frederick) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:14:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines References: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: Although we still have the drive-thru daiquiri shops, the Louisiana legislature, in it's vast wisdom, finally decided open containers were a bad idea. It was made illegal for any person riding in a motor vehicle to possess an open container of alcohol about 3 or 4 years ago. For the purposes of the drive-thru daiquiris the container is considered open if there is a straw in it. Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:49 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Go to Louisiana -- they have Margurita drive-throughs. Blew my mind the first time I went through one with my host (doing a lecture @ LSU) an WE drank Margies on the way to his house. And all legal!!!! At 01:37 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: Heated and cooled?!!! Awesome! A person wouldn't ever have to get out of it if they had "Beer Drive Ins".... lol > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > > Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe > Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It > came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. > Jim > > > Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! > > Rex > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 28 04:33:20 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:33:20 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <246955.76817.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> When I was in college in Louisiana ( i grew up there), I could go to a Liquor Store (or drive-up Daquiri Factory)?when I was 18 and buy anything I wanted and walk out the door legally....However, I could not buy a glass of wine at a restaurant until I was 21..huh?....:)? I think they fixed that one a few years back as well...... Richard? ________________________________ From: Matthew Frederick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 7:14:27 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Although we still have the drive-thru daiquiri shops, the Louisiana legislature, in it's vast wisdom, finally decided open containers were a bad idea. It was made illegal for any person riding in a motor vehicle to possess an open container of alcohol about 3 or 4 years ago. For the purposes of the drive-thru daiquiris the container is considered open if there is a straw in it. ? Matt ----- Original Message ----- >From: Phil Spelt >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:49 AM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > >Go to Louisiana -- they have Margurita drive-throughs.? Blew my mind the first time I went through one with my host (doing a lecture @ LSU) an WE drank Margies on the way to his house.? And all legal!!!! > >At 01:37 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: > >Heated and cooled?!!!? Awesome!? A person wouldn't ever have to get out of it if they had >>"Beer Drive Ins"....? lol >>? >>> From: jnhiller at earthlink.net >>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines >>> >>> Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe >>> Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It >>> came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! >>> >>> Rex >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >--> ________________________________ _______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussionThere are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > >Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. >?????? URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >AMA--1294,? Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 >????? My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ >????? (865) 435-1476 v? (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony at radiosouthrc.com Fri Aug 28 05:36:44 2009 From: tony at radiosouthrc.com (Tony) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:36:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: <8CBF59537A433C3-3730-105F7@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBF59537A433C3-3730-105F7@webmail-m037.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <58AC6409D0A24454915C2C71B1AFB875@Tony> Well, sort of I guess That was a fun time but a lot of work. I burned 50-60 gallons of fuel each pattern season .. Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of rcmaster199 at aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:23 PM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Actually, it sounds like bragging to me. Bragging in Pattern is always part of the fun. I'm sure some will say Nay, but hey, that's part of the fun too. If we didn't have opinions might as well not do this at all MattK -----Original Message----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thu, Aug 27, 2009 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels . They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better . Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [ mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most u ser-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgghome at comcast.net Fri Aug 28 05:37:37 2009 From: jgghome at comcast.net (John Gayer) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:37:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator In-Reply-To: <010f01ca2799$c1de4790$9501a8c0@GW7422> References: <99033E10C6CE4190A8A74A4882823E0A@LLDPC> <010f01ca2799$c1de4790$9501a8c0@GW7422> Message-ID: <4A97DD9F.5050205@comcast.net> These days most will go to the computer for information. A simple request in google for "rc pattern" will turn up enough infoand links to keep you busy for several days. The main problem with getting information and generating interest is that there are entire states with only a handful of pattern flyers and no contests. The usual stimulant for pattern interest is seeing someone fly a reasonable pattern at a local club field. I find it discouraging that NSRCA and AMA are not on the first page of google results..... John John Pavlick wrote: > Larry, > What you're doing IS a good way to spread the word. Keep doing it. > More people need to follow your lead. It may take some time but you > WILL see results. > > Pattern simply doesn't have the "presence" that it once did. Back in > the 70's and early 80's Pattern was the top of the game. And EVERYONE > knew it. Not anymore. At least not as far as the average R/C pilot > goes - they're mostly into "3D". Not that that's a "bad" thing but it > explains why most Pattern contests nowadays have about 15 - 20 pilots > whereas in the 70's it was closer to 4-5 times that amount. > > We need to use the internet to our advantage. When you see someone on > RCU asking about Pattern - Help them. No matter how busy you are. No > matter how "obvious" the answer is. No matter how "stupid" the > question is. > > Better yet, when you see someone on one of the 3D or scale forums > asking about things that can be answered with a plug for Pattern - do > it. VBG > > Spread the word. It doesn't cost anything. You won't get evryone but > you might get someone. That's all we need to make progress. :) > > John Pavlick > http://www.idseng.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa n Larry" > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:25 AM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator > > >> Ok...Here we go again... >> >> My thoughts... >> >> We need to get an article into one the main stream mags about how to get >> started in pattern and what is pattern. >> >> I believe Eric Henderson did this a few years back... But we need to >> keep >> advertising and budget the $$$ in our annual planning. Have an >> Advertisement >> that simply says, "Want to Try Pattern...Call your nearest NSRCA >> District >> VP", and list all the VP's... >> >> Someone covers a large contest...Submit it to the AMA Mags, Fly RC, MAN, >> etc... Boast Pattern and NSRCA in the same sentence...Folks will >> start to >> connect the dots... >> >> Secondly, do what I'm doing in my local area...Talk to people, fly the >> planes...Talk up pattern without pushing it on people... >> >> I've haven't been to our local field in over a year...But when Lisa >> and I >> showed up, they knew who I was because of the planes and I'm easy to >> talk >> with...I've let folks fly my pattern planes... >> >> I have CDed Pattern Contests before (not since 2005)... >> >> Has it netted a member, nope...But they know if someone has a >> question about >> pattern in our club, they can get a hold of me... >> >> If I was to actually start making contests again, I would be willing >> to bet >> I could get one or two to go with me... >> >> That should get this discussion going again... >> >> I have also sold 2M planes dirt cheap if I knew someone wanted to try >> pattern... >> >> Larry Diamond >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:13 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator >> >> So what is your solution. I hear you saying what doesn't work. >> What do you propose will work ? >> >> On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Lisa n Larry wrote: >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... >>> >>> Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with >>> pattern.... >>> >>> There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have >>> members >>> that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the >>> 70's...There >>> may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in >>> contact with >>> them... >>> >>> Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... >>> >>> Larry Diamond >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N >>> Hiller >>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM >>> To: NSRCA Mailing List >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator >>> >>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx >>> >>> Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and >>> mileage >>> radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. >>> >>> Jim H >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 28 05:39:01 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:39:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines References: <431048.48392.qm@web80502.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DCF1C419E4B4041B0686624D246D974@glazecstp32xp> Yeah, but my garage floor isn't rusting, so I see no need to oil it. Besides, I've got 2 Triumphs (one is a 1971 Bonneville) and the other is a 1974 BMW. I've certainly got more than I need. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Bill, Well if you want a 4-stroke engine that WILL last almost forever, might I suggest a 1964 Harley Big Twin (Pan-Head)? Mine finally needs a valve job but that's not a problem because I can still get parts. LOL John Pavlick --- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Glaze wrote: From: Bill Glaze Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 5:19 PM Tony and Jay: Jay first: I've used the Webra 1.20 2 stroke, and while it's a good engine, mine is worn out. That doesn't rule out a 2 stroke, but I've always felt that the 4 stroke "followed" what I wanted for pattern somewhat better than the 2 stroke. But, no, I'm not locked in to a 4 stroke. Tony: Actually, I have the best possible engine now. Buff Miller who was flying his Sport at Green Sea with a Y.S. 110, came up to me after the 3rd round, and said "You're definitely outperforming me." Which I was, after observing Buff's flight. Most of my Pattern is flown at a quite reduced setting, but I have LOTS more under my left thumb solely for maximum vertical figures. My sole concern is that a 20 year old engine, (I bought it in 1989, when they were first introduced) can't last forever, and parts can become a problem. I don't want to ground the airplane for want of a powerplant suitable for Pattern. So, I'm gathering pertinent information ahead of time. Actually, it's been running perfectly for years; I just know that, (like me) it can't go on forever, and I want to be ready with information as to where to go when I need to. Gentlemen, thanks for your input. It is definitely noted, and will be condsidered. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway? This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels?. They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN?T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can?t be better?. Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Fri Aug 28 05:40:03 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:40:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <20090828134003.7A306115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> Oh, yes, Matt -- DAQUIRIES!! How little I remember of THAT trip!!!! :-[ At 08:14 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: >Although we still have the drive-thru daiquiri shops, the Louisiana >legislature, in it's vast wisdom, finally decided open containers >were a bad idea. It was made illegal for any person riding in a >motor vehicle to possess an open container of alcohol about 3 or 4 >years ago. For the purposes of the drive-thru daiquiris the >container is considered open if there is a straw in it. > >Matt >----- Original Message ----- >From: Phil Spelt >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:49 AM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > >Go to Louisiana -- they have Margurita drive-throughs. Blew my mind >the first time I went through one with my host (doing a lecture @ >LSU) an WE drank Margies on the way to his house. And all legal!!!! > >At 01:37 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: >>Heated and cooled?!!! Awesome! A person wouldn't ever have to get >>out of it if they had >>"Beer Drive Ins".... lol >> >> > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net >> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines >> > >> > Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe >> > Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It >> > came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. >> > Jim >> > >> > >> > Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! >> > >> > Rex >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >--> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > >Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control >Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > > >---------- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 28 05:41:42 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:41:42 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> <71D925CE3041432297DF4342F35B0B00@Tony> Message-ID: <54628DEA5A0C49748E8DBD1280B47E96@glazecstp32xp> Tony: Superb idea--I'll do it. It's been a great engine, never needed anything. When the engines had been out a couple of years, I remember Frank Kelley telling me that Donny Weitz had 135 gals. of fuel through his, with absolutely no problems. My experience parallels. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Bill: Get Richard to send you a piston/sleeve/ring for it and a set of bearings.. That is about all you would need for a rebuild to last another 20 years! Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:19 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Tony and Jay: Jay first: I've used the Webra 1.20 2 stroke, and while it's a good engine, mine is worn out. That doesn't rule out a 2 stroke, but I've always felt that the 4 stroke "followed" what I wanted for pattern somewhat better than the 2 stroke. But, no, I'm not locked in to a 4 stroke. Tony: Actually, I have the best possible engine now. Buff Miller who was flying his Sport at Green Sea with a Y.S. 110, came up to me after the 3rd round, and said "You're definitely outperforming me." Which I was, after observing Buff's flight. Most of my Pattern is flown at a quite reduced setting, but I have LOTS more under my left thumb solely for maximum vertical figures. My sole concern is that a 20 year old engine, (I bought it in 1989, when they were first introduced) can't last forever, and parts can become a problem. I don't want to ground the airplane for want of a powerplant suitable for Pattern. So, I'm gathering pertinent information ahead of time. Actually, it's been running perfectly for years; I just know that, (like me) it can't go on forever, and I want to be ready with information as to where to go when I need to. Gentlemen, thanks for your input. It is definitely noted, and will be condsidered. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 AMA 2221 ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines The YS110 would be an option, but it sounds like you HAVE the best engine! Reminds me of a situation I had years ago. I was 2nd in Expert (this is before turn-around) in 1990 at the NATS. Only 1 point out of 1st, RATS! Anyway. This was my first NATS since 1983, when I also placed 2nd. After the NATS I got a call from the nice people at Byron Fuels.. They wanted me to fly their fuel. I explained to them that I appreciated their interest in me, but that I was very happy with Morgan/Cool Power fuels. They persisted in telling me that they had the BEST fuel on the market and that it was superior to Cool Power. Well, I had to take exception to that. You see, in the 2 ? years leading up to the 1990 NATS, I never lost a single ROUND at a pattern contest in Expert class! I flew in 10-15 contests each year. In that period of time, I had not changed a single part in my YS .60RE engine, other than a glow plug. The engine never quit, was 110% reliable. So, I explained to the Byron folks, your fuel CAN'T be any better! It MIGHT be as good, but can't be better.. Long story to say that it sounds like you HAVE the best engine now!! Why change? Tony Stillman, President Radio South, Inc. 139 Altama Connector, Box 322 Brunswick, GA 31525 1-800-962-7802 www.radiosouthrc.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bill Glaze Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:36 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Fri Aug 28 05:42:43 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:42:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator In-Reply-To: <4A97DD9F.5050205@comcast.net> Message-ID: <505437.92681.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> "I find it discouraging that? NSRCA and AMA are not on the first page of google results....." ? There's a way to fix that, you know. :) ? Luckily Ed Hartley's site comes up at the top of the list so all is not lost. VBG ? John Pavlick --- On Fri, 8/28/09, John Gayer wrote: From: John Gayer Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Friday, August 28, 2009, 9:37 AM These days most will go to the computer for information. A simple request in google for "rc pattern" will turn up enough infoand links to keep you busy for several days. The main problem with getting information and generating interest is that there are entire states with only a handful of pattern flyers and no contests. The usual stimulant for pattern interest is seeing someone fly a reasonable pattern at a local club field. I find it discouraging that? NSRCA and AMA are not on the first page of google results..... John John Pavlick wrote: > Larry, > What you're doing IS a good way to spread the word. Keep doing it. More people need to follow your lead. It may take some time but you WILL see results. > > Pattern simply doesn't have the "presence" that it once did. Back in the 70's and early 80's Pattern was the top of the game. And EVERYONE knew it. Not anymore. At least not as far as the average R/C pilot goes - they're mostly into "3D". Not that that's a "bad" thing but it explains why most Pattern contests nowadays have about 15 - 20 pilots whereas in the 70's it was closer to 4-5 times that amount. > > We need to use the internet to our advantage. When you see someone on RCU asking about Pattern - Help them. No matter how busy you are. No matter how "obvious" the answer is. No matter how "stupid" the question is. > > Better yet, when you see someone on one of the 3D or scale forums asking about things that can be answered with a plug for Pattern? - do it. VBG > > Spread the word. It doesn't cost anything. You won't get evryone but you might get someone. That's all we need to make progress. :) > > John Pavlick > http://www.idseng.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa n Larry" > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:25 AM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator > > >> Ok...Here we go again... >> >> My thoughts... >> >> We need to get an article into one the main stream mags about how to get >> started in pattern and what is pattern. >> >> I believe Eric Henderson did this a few years back... But we need to keep >> advertising and budget the $$$ in our annual planning. Have an Advertisement >> that simply says, "Want to Try Pattern...Call your nearest NSRCA District >> VP", and list all the VP's... >> >> Someone covers a large contest...Submit it to the AMA Mags, Fly RC, MAN, >> etc... Boast Pattern and NSRCA in the same sentence...Folks will start to >> connect the dots... >> >> Secondly, do what I'm doing in my local area...Talk to people, fly the >> planes...Talk up pattern without pushing it on people... >> >> I've haven't been to our local field in over a year...But when Lisa and I >> showed up, they knew who I was because of the planes and I'm easy to talk >> with...I've let folks fly my pattern planes... >> >> I have CDed Pattern Contests before (not since 2005)... >> >> Has it netted a member, nope...But they know if someone has a question about >> pattern in our club, they can get a hold of me... >> >> If I was to actually start making contests again, I would be willing to bet >> I could get one or two to go with me... >> >> That should get this discussion going again... >> >> I have also sold 2M planes dirt cheap if I knew someone wanted to try >> pattern... >> >> Larry Diamond >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:13 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator >> >> So what is your solution.? ? I hear you saying what doesn't work. >> What do you propose will work ? >> >> On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Lisa n Larry wrote: >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... >>> >>> Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with >>> pattern.... >>> >>> There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have >>> members >>> that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the >>> 70's...There >>> may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in >>> contact with >>> them... >>> >>> Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... >>> >>> Larry Diamond >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N >>> Hiller >>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM >>> To: NSRCA Mailing List >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator >>> >>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx >>> >>> Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and >>> mileage >>> radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. >>> >>> Jim H >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 28 05:44:23 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:44:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp> <173071.40379.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My only concern is about parts availability down the road, Bob. And, I've got several of the 1.40 FZ's and you're right--easy to work with, and long running also. I've also got a 1.40 L and it's good too, except for the shaking. Lots of shaking. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines You should be able to rebuild that engine until the world ends. Another good engine is the 140FZ, very friendly. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:35:50 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aabdu at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 28 06:07:52 2009 From: aabdu at sbcglobal.net (Anthony Abdullah) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:07:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok In-Reply-To: <4A972C7D.8040308@hbcomm.net> References: <8CBF5456ABAB45E-2024-3F4F@webmail-m065.sysops.aol.com> <364515.19342.qm@web112116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <464439.41999.qm@web82107.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4A972C7D.8040308@hbcomm.net> Message-ID: <824936.2841.qm@web82106.mail.mud.yahoo.com> WOW Joe, that is one heck of an offer. I am not scheduled to travel until Monday 9/14/09 and unfortunately those dates are not flexible. Thanks again. Anthony ________________________________ From: Joe Dunnaway To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 9:01:49 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok Hey Anthony, ? If you can get away on Sept. 12th and 13th there will be a pattern contest in Tulsa.? About 100 miles from Oklahoma City.?? If you can make it, I'll bring along a pattern plane for you to fly. Joe Dunnaway Anthony Abdullah wrote: Thanks for the info guys. Now I just need to find a way to get a plane down there and some time away from work to fly it. I definitely intend to visit the local flying fields in the evenings even if I don't get a chance to fly. That will make being away from my pattern planes the week leading up to the district championship contest more palatable. > >Thanks again >Anthony > > ________________________________ From: brian young >To: General pattern discussion >Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:38:19 PM >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok > > >Also out in Yukon at Westside RC.? - west of OKC a few miles. > >?http://www.westside-rc.org/ > > > > ________________________________ From: "rjo626 at aol.com" >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:51:46 AM >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Flying fields near Oklahoma City Ok > > >???? There are several. www.baxterfield.com???? is the club I belong to. I know of one at the OU campus,? www.flycorcs.com ?and one near Lake Hefner (TORKS) www.torks.org/site?? ????? www.oksoonersquadron.netfirms.com?? is a little north of OKC. > >???? Later! >??????????? RJO > > ________________________________ >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From JAStebbins at worldnet.att.net Fri Aug 28 06:51:48 2009 From: JAStebbins at worldnet.att.net (Jerry Stebbins) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:51:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp><173071.40379.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <017d01ca27ee$c94480d0$6001a8c0@jerryscomputer> Bill, put in an extra head shim (1.40L)and it will kick no more. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines My only concern is about parts availability down the road, Bob. And, I've got several of the 1.40 FZ's and you're right--easy to work with, and long running also. I've also got a 1.40 L and it's good too, except for the shaking. Lots of shaking. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines You should be able to rebuild that engine until the world ends. Another good engine is the 140FZ, very friendly. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:35:50 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jnhiller at earthlink.net Fri Aug 28 07:22:52 2009 From: jnhiller at earthlink.net (J N Hiller) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:22:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: Yah but you don't get any snow down there! Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:50 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Go to Louisiana -- they have Margurita drive-throughs. Blew my mind the first time I went through one with my host (doing a lecture @ LSU) an WE drank Margies on the way to his house. And all legal!!!! At 01:37 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: Heated and cooled?!!! Awesome! A person wouldn't ever have to get out of it if they had "Beer Drive Ins".... lol > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > > Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe > Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It > came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. > Jim > > > Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! > > Rex > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Fri Aug 28 07:37:39 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:37:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: References: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <20090828153739.58C9E1160F@bridi.netexpress.com> That's about the biggest positive you can name for me!!! At 11:22 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: >Yah but you don't get any snow down there! >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Phil Spelt >Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:50 AM >To: General pattern discussion >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > >Go to Louisiana -- they have Margurita drive-throughs. Blew my mind >the first time I went through one with my host (doing a lecture @ >LSU) an WE drank Margies on the way to his house. And all legal!!!! > >At 01:37 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: > >Heated and cooled?!!! Awesome! A person wouldn't ever have to get >out of it if they had >"Beer Drive Ins".... lol > > > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > > > > Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe > > Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It > > came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. > > Jim > > > > > > Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! > > > > Rex > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >--> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > >Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control >Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 28 07:45:52 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:45:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB886@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Anyone heard anything? -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 28 07:59:56 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:59:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB886@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB886@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <80290.21759.qm@web80507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Derek put some scoresheet images on RCU - Looks like CPLR is smokin em'....... ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: "nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org" Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:38:25 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? Anyone heard anything? -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 28 08:20:58 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:20:58 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB888@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> How are our guys doing? (I'm at a contest, no internet access) -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 28 11:59:53 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? Derek put some scoresheet images on RCU - Looks like CPLR is smokin em'....... ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: "nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org" Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:38:25 AM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? Anyone heard anything? -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wemodels at cox.net Fri Aug 28 08:25:40 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:25:40 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB888@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB888@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <4A980502.4040403@cox.net> These are the scores Derek posted photos of on RCU this morning First set of semi-final scores posted by Derek on RCU: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_90...anchor/tm.htm# CPLR - 592.60 QQ - 578.90 Onda - 571.90 Silvestri - 566.10 Akiba - 543.40 Shulman - 542.90 Jesky - 541.50 BPLR - 540.0 Suzuki - 524.80 Wickizer - 523.60 Northeast - 508.60 From AtwoodDon at aol.com Fri Aug 28 08:32:51 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:32:51 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? Message-ID: Those raw scores are from 2 different judge panels so we need to wait to see raw scores from same judge panels. Don In a message dated 8/28/2009 9:25:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, wemodels at cox.net writes: These are the scores Derek posted photos of on RCU this morning First set of semi-final scores posted by Derek on RCU: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_90...anchor/tm.htm# CPLR - 592.60 QQ - 578.90 Onda - 571.90 Silvestri - 566.10 Akiba - 543.40 Shulman - 542.90 Jesky - 541.50 BPLR - 540.0 Suzuki - 524.80 Wickizer - 523.60 Northeast - 508.60 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wemodels at cox.net Fri Aug 28 08:36:21 2009 From: wemodels at cox.net (Bill's Email) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 16:36:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC update? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A980784.4000700@cox.net> OK, like I said, these are the socres from the scoresheets taht Derek posted on the link in my email. I was not implying any standings or whatever. Listing them numerically made sense to me. Of course nothing means anything until the final scores are posted later today. It is 5:35 over there now so they shoul dbe wrapping up soon. Then we'll know!! AtwoodDon at aol.com wrote: > Those raw scores are from 2 different judge panels so we need to wait > to see raw scores from same judge panels. > > Don > > In a message dated 8/28/2009 9:25:58 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > wemodels at cox.net writes: > > These are the scores Derek posted photos of on RCU this morning > > First set of semi-final scores posted by Derek on RCU: > > http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_90...anchor/tm.htm# > > CPLR - 592.60 > QQ - 578.90 > Onda - 571.90 > Silvestri - 566.10 > Akiba - 543.40 > Shulman - 542.90 > Jesky - 541.50 > BPLR - 540.0 > Suzuki - 524.80 > Wickizer - 523.60 > Northeast - 508.60 > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 28 09:19:26 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:19:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines References: <2C34D3F756F74720BB0FBD5474F0B43E@glazecstp32xp><173071.40379.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <017d01ca27ee$c94480d0$6001a8c0@jerryscomputer> Message-ID: Jerry: Thanks for the advisory. I'll surely give it a try. Also, when I was building large displacement Drag Boat engines, we used to balance the engine with Mallory Metal, which was nearly pure tungsten (for it's heavy weight) One time I took apart one of my 1.40's and noticed a drilled and welded spot on the counterbalance, which looked identical in miniature to what we used to do to the full size race engines. I asked Richard Verano about it, and he was unaware of the situation. He said "sometimes the factory will try something and not tell us." I guess that was one of those times. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Stebbins To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Bill, put in an extra head shim (1.40L)and it will kick no more. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines My only concern is about parts availability down the road, Bob. And, I've got several of the 1.40 FZ's and you're right--easy to work with, and long running also. I've also got a 1.40 L and it's good too, except for the shaking. Lots of shaking. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines You should be able to rebuild that engine until the world ends. Another good engine is the 140FZ, very friendly. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bill Glaze To: General pattern discussion Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:35:50 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines All: Looking for opinions here. I've been flying a Piedmont sport that tips the scales at 9# even. Powering it with a Y.S. 1.20 FS, and it's now 20 years old. Runs fine, but maybe not forever. It turns an APC at 8800+ and offers plenty of performance. Question: Is there anything else on the market that offers comparable performance? This is probably the most user-friendly engine I've ever used; not moody, always easy starting, runs at a repeatable setting every time, (1-1/4 turns out on the main needle) and I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that can match this performance/ease of use? Thanks. BTW: Opinions are O.K.; I realize these things are highly subjective and anecdotal, and subject to individual viewpoints. Bill Glaze NSRCA 2388 start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humptybump at sbcglobal.net Fri Aug 28 09:21:56 2009 From: humptybump at sbcglobal.net (Richard Lewis) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:21:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted Message-ID: <324162.77495.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Looks like only Jason and QQ made the cut...:( ? ? Classification? Dorsal? First Name? Last Name? Country? Total? Panel 1? Panel 2? 1? 72? PAYSANT - LE ROUX? CHRISTOPHE? FRA? 2000.00? 1000.00? 1000.00? 2? 14? SOMENZINI? Quique? USA? 1962.58? 979.07? 977.42? 3? 70? SILVESTRI? SEBASTIANO? ITA? 1959.09? 977.87? 952.33? 4? 69? ONDA? TETSUO? JPN? 1955.13? 984.03? 950.83? 5? 68? SHULMAN? JASON? USA? 1926.51? 963.20? 921.08? 6? 34? SUZUKI? KOJI? JPN? 1885.26? 954.05? 931.21? 7? 90? AKIBA? YOICHIRO? JPN? 1882.30? 956.73? 905.57? 8? 29? BERND? BESCHORNER? GER? 1877.15? 950.63? 885.28? 9? 24? MAYR? GERHRARD? AUT? 1865.02? 957.04? 897.39? 10? 55? PAYSANT - LE ROUX? BENOIT? FRA? 1849.90? 934.69? 915.20? 11? 87? JESKY? ANDREW? USA? 1847.36? 944.47? 902.81? 12? 19? KAISER? STEFAN? LIE? 1845.37? 927.80? 883.93? 13? 31? WICKIZER? BRETT? USA? 1827.06? 908.28? 862.11? 14? 1? DANKSAGMULLER? HELMUT? AUT? 1806.31? 915.87? 878.49? 15? 81? ZEINER? MARKUS? AUT? 1794.03? 916.78? 851.25? 16? 18? NORTHEAST? CHAD? CAN? 1773.76? 921.40? 831.95? 17? 59? MATT? WOLFGANG? LIE? 1760.38? 907.32? 853.06? 18? 41? BURBAUD? LOIC? FRA? 1759.95? 910.59? 824.14? 19? 78? ROMBAUT? JUAN? ESP? 1751.99? 887.67? 840.32? 20? 54? GUENTHER? ULSAMER? GER? 1745.20? 902.72? 820.71? 21? 74? FRIGGERI? LUCA? ITA? 1743.51? 906.90? 782.21? 22? 12? RUBIN? MARK? SUI? 1742.53? 900.06? 842.46? 23? 26? DIERICKX? BENOIT? BEL? 1740.84? 885.17? 823.07? 24? 47? JUN ZHANG? XU? CHN? 1740.71? 891.22? 835.71? 25? 25? FREMMING? OLA? NOR? 1735.76? 903.18? 802.39? 26? 8? SCHADEN? BERNHARD? SUI? 1693.01? 872.73? 820.28? 27? 96? BUTUZOV? SERGEY? RUS? 1692.19? 886.64? 771.76? 28? 32? FRANTISEK? POKORNY? CZE? 1690.61? 884.33? 806.29? 29? 73? COLOMBO? MARCELO? ARG? 1687.78? 869.27? 818.51? 30? 94? SELVA? MASSIMO? SMR? 1657.99? 876.80? 737.16 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From billglaze at bellsouth.net Fri Aug 28 09:24:27 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:24:27 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator References: <99033E10C6CE4190A8A74A4882823E0A@LLDPC> <010f01ca2799$c1de4790$9501a8c0@GW7422> Message-ID: <7AE15136FB23460A9F8BFE8782BDAC47@glazecstp32xp> John and Larry: Exactly. Be "available" for conversation; it certainly doesn't have to be any kind of salesmanship type of thing, (which can be a turn-off to lots of folks.) But just keep on doing what you folks are doing. A goodwill ambassador is a tremendous booster in itself. Bill Glaze ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Pavlick" To: "General pattern discussion" Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:41 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator > Larry, > What you're doing IS a good way to spread the word. Keep doing it. More > people need to follow your lead. It may take some time but you WILL see > results. > > Pattern simply doesn't have the "presence" that it once did. Back in the > 70's and early 80's Pattern was the top of the game. And EVERYONE knew it. > Not anymore. At least not as far as the average R/C pilot goes - they're > mostly into "3D". Not that that's a "bad" thing but it explains why most > Pattern contests nowadays have about 15 - 20 pilots whereas in the 70's it > was closer to 4-5 times that amount. > > We need to use the internet to our advantage. When you see someone on RCU > asking about Pattern - Help them. No matter how busy you are. No matter > how "obvious" the answer is. No matter how "stupid" the question is. > > Better yet, when you see someone on one of the 3D or scale forums asking > about things that can be answered with a plug for Pattern - do it. VBG > > Spread the word. It doesn't cost anything. You won't get evryone but you > might get someone. That's all we need to make progress. :) > > John Pavlick > http://www.idseng.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lisa n Larry" > To: "'General pattern discussion'" > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:25 AM > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Grow Pattern - was Club Locator > > >> Ok...Here we go again... >> >> My thoughts... >> >> We need to get an article into one the main stream mags about how to get >> started in pattern and what is pattern. >> >> I believe Eric Henderson did this a few years back... But we need to keep >> advertising and budget the $$$ in our annual planning. Have an >> Advertisement >> that simply says, "Want to Try Pattern...Call your nearest NSRCA District >> VP", and list all the VP's... >> >> Someone covers a large contest...Submit it to the AMA Mags, Fly RC, MAN, >> etc... Boast Pattern and NSRCA in the same sentence...Folks will start to >> connect the dots... >> >> Secondly, do what I'm doing in my local area...Talk to people, fly the >> planes...Talk up pattern without pushing it on people... >> >> I've haven't been to our local field in over a year...But when Lisa and I >> showed up, they knew who I was because of the planes and I'm easy to talk >> with...I've let folks fly my pattern planes... >> >> I have CDed Pattern Contests before (not since 2005)... >> >> Has it netted a member, nope...But they know if someone has a question >> about >> pattern in our club, they can get a hold of me... >> >> If I was to actually start making contests again, I would be willing to >> bet >> I could get one or two to go with me... >> >> That should get this discussion going again... >> >> I have also sold 2M planes dirt cheap if I knew someone wanted to try >> pattern... >> >> Larry Diamond >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim >> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 11:13 PM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator >> >> So what is your solution. I hear you saying what doesn't work. >> What do you propose will work ? >> >> On Aug 27, 2009, at 9:09 PM, Lisa n Larry wrote: >> >>> Jim, >>> >>> My zip is 47579 (Santa Claus, IN)... >>> >>> Please enter my zip and tell me which clubs can help me with >>> pattern.... >>> >>> There are about 5 clubs within an hour or so. Two of the clubs have >>> members >>> that heard of pattern. I'm one, and the other flew back in the >>> 70's...There >>> may be more, but after 15 years in this area I haven't came in >>> contact with >>> them... >>> >>> Club locators don't help getting involved with pattern... >>> >>> Larry Diamond >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org >>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of J N >>> Hiller >>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:57 PM >>> To: NSRCA Mailing List >>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Club Locator >>> >>> http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx >>> >>> Here's a link to the AMA club locator. Just enter your ZIP code and >>> mileage >>> radius (25-250). I picked up 8 within 25 mi and 40 within 250. >>> >>> Jim H >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > From trexlesh at msn.com Fri Aug 28 09:34:26 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:34:26 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines In-Reply-To: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <20090828084942.5E3E9115EA@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: Well, just when I thought I'd heard it all! lol Rex Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:49:38 -0400 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org From: chuenkan at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines Go to Louisiana -- they have Margurita drive-throughs. Blew my mind the first time I went through one with my host (doing a lecture @ LSU) an WE drank Margies on the way to his house. And all legal!!!! At 01:37 AM 8/28/2009, you wrote: Heated and cooled?!!! Awesome! A person wouldn't ever have to get out of it if they had "Beer Drive Ins".... lol > From: jnhiller at earthlink.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:28:08 -0700 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Engines > > Yah Rex that's the easy part. After Creswell I go to Wenatchee and maybe > Sacramento in Oct. The good news is the miles will be on the new truck. It > came in 4 weeks, awesome. 10-way adjustable heated and cooled seats. > Jim > > > Ya, and you have another thousand miles to go too! > > Rex > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kvelez at rochester.rr.com Fri Aug 28 09:35:49 2009 From: kvelez at rochester.rr.com (Ken Velez) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:35:49 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted In-Reply-To: <324162.77495.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Isn't a P average score carried over to the semis? If so the standings will change. looks like Andrew needs just little over 2 points to make the finals. Ken _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Lewis Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted Looks like only Jason and QQ made the cut...:( Classification Dorsal First Name Last Name Country Total Panel 1 Panel 2 1 72 PAYSANT - LE ROUX CHRISTOPHE FRA 2000.00 1000.00 1000.00 2 14 SOMENZINI Quique USA 1962.58 979.07 977.42 3 70 SILVESTRI SEBASTIANO ITA 1959.09 977.87 952.33 4 69 ONDA TETSUO JPN 1955.13 984.03 950.83 5 68 SHULMAN JASON USA 1926.51 963.20 921.08 6 34 SUZUKI KOJI JPN 1885.26 954.05 931.21 7 90 AKIBA YOICHIRO JPN 1882.30 956.73 905.57 8 29 BERND BESCHORNER GER 1877.15 950.63 885.28 9 24 MAYR GERHRARD AUT 1865.02 957.04 897.39 10 55 PAYSANT - LE ROUX BENOIT FRA 1849.90 934.69 915.20 11 87 JESKY ANDREW USA 1847.36 944.47 902.81 12 19 KAISER STEFAN LIE 1845.37 927.80 883.93 13 31 WICKIZER BRETT USA 1827.06 908.28 862.11 14 1 DANKSAGMULLER HELMUT AUT 1806.31 915.87 878.49 15 81 ZEINER MARKUS AUT 1794.03 916.78 851.25 16 18 NORTHEAST CHAD CAN 1773.76 921.40 831.95 17 59 MATT WOLFGANG LIE 1760.38 907.32 853.06 18 41 BURBAUD LOIC FRA 1759.95 910.59 824.14 19 78 ROMBAUT JUAN ESP 1751.99 887.67 840.32 20 54 GUENTHER ULSAMER GER 1745.20 902.72 820.71 21 74 FRIGGERI LUCA ITA 1743.51 906.90 782.21 22 12 RUBIN MARK SUI 1742.53 900.06 842.46 23 26 DIERICKX BENOIT BEL 1740.84 885.17 823.07 24 47 JUN ZHANG XU CHN 1740.71 891.22 835.71 25 25 FREMMING OLA NOR 1735.76 903.18 802.39 26 8 SCHADEN BERNHARD SUI 1693.01 872.73 820.28 27 96 BUTUZOV SERGEY RUS 1692.19 886.64 771.76 28 32 FRANTISEK POKORNY CZE 1690.61 884.33 806.29 29 73 COLOMBO MARCELO ARG 1687.78 869.27 818.51 30 94 SELVA MASSIMO SMR 1657.99 876.80 737.16 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Fri Aug 28 10:19:19 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:19:19 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <926633.370.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Looks like they already counted the best 2 of 3..... :( ________________________________ From: Ken Velez To: General pattern discussion Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 12:35:47 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted Isn?t a P average score carried over to the semis? If so the standings will change? looks like Andrew needs just little over 2 points to make the finals. ? Ken ? ________________________________ From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Lewis Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 1:22 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted ? Looks like only Jason and QQ made the cut...:( ? ? Classification? Dorsal? First Name? Last Name? Country? Total? Panel 1? Panel 2? 1? 72? PAYSANT - LE ROUX? CHRISTOPHE? FRA? 2000.00? 1000.00? 1000.00? 2? 14? SOMENZINI? Quique? USA? 1962.58? 979.07? 977.42? 3? 70? SILVESTRI? SEBASTIANO? ITA? 1959.09? 977.87? 952.33? 4? 69? ONDA? TETSUO? JPN? 1955.13? 984.03? 950.83? 5? 68? SHULMAN? JASON? USA? 1926.51? 963.20? 921.08? 6? 34? SUZUKI? KOJI? JPN? 1885.26? 954.05? 931.21? 7? 90? AKIBA? YOICHIRO? JPN? 1882.30? 956.73? 905.57? 8? 29? BERND? BESCHORNER? GER? 1877.15? 950.63? 885.28? 9? 24? MAYR? GERHRARD? AUT? 1865.02? 957.04? 897.39? 10? 55? PAYSANT - LE ROUX? BENOIT? FRA? 1849.90? 934.69? 915.20? 11? 87? JESKY? ANDREW? USA? 1847.36? 944.47? 902.81? 12? 19? KAISER? STEFAN? LIE? 1845.37? 927.80? 883.93? 13? 31? WICKIZER? BRETT? USA? 1827.06? 908.28? 862.11? 14? 1? DANKSAGMULLER? HELMUT? AUT? 1806.31? 915.87? 878.49? 15? 81? ZEINER? MARKUS? AUT? 1794.03? 916.78? 851.25? 16? 18? NORTHEAST? CHAD? CAN? 1773.76? 921.40? 831.95? 17? 59? MATT? WOLFGANG? LIE? 1760.38? 907.32? 853.06? 18? 41? BURBAUD? LOIC? FRA? 1759.95? 910.59? 824.14? 19? 78? ROMBAUT? JUAN? ESP? 1751.99? 887.67? 840.32? 20? 54? GUENTHER? ULSAMER? GER? 1745.20? 902.72? 820.71? 21? 74? FRIGGERI? LUCA? ITA? 1743.51? 906.90? 782.21? 22? 12? RUBIN? MARK? SUI? 1742.53? 900.06? 842.46? 23? 26? DIERICKX? BENOIT? BEL? 1740.84? 885.17? 823.07? 24? 47? JUN ZHANG? XU? CHN? 1740.71? 891.22? 835.71? 25? 25? FREMMING? OLA? NOR? 1735.76? 903.18? 802.39? 26? 8? SCHADEN? BERNHARD? SUI? 1693.01? 872.73? 820.28? 27? 96? BUTUZOV? SERGEY? RUS? 1692.19? 886.64? 771.76? 28? 32? FRANTISEK? POKORNY? CZE? 1690.61? 884.33? 806.29? 29? 73? COLOMBO? MARCELO? ARG? 1687.78? 869.27? 818.51? 30? 94? SELVA? MASSIMO? SMR? 1657.99? 876.80? 737.16 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 11:13:30 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:13:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted In-Reply-To: <926633.370.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <926633.370.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: What sequences will they fly for the finals? RS _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From DaveL322 at comcast.net Fri Aug 28 11:14:55 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:14:55 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted In-Reply-To: References: <926633.370.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0B7692E3D6C4450E98370C301810F961@davedesktop> F, Unknown 1, F, Unknown 2. Regards, Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted What sequences will they fly for the finals? RS _____ _____ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 28 11:14:56 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:14:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB88F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> 2 F's and 2 unknowns. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 28 15:13:28 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted What sequences will they fly for the finals? RS ________________________________ ________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 11:30:50 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:30:50 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted In-Reply-To: <0B7692E3D6C4450E98370C301810F961@davedesktop> References: <926633.370.qm@web80705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <0B7692E3D6C4450E98370C301810F961@davedesktop> Message-ID: Thanks, guys. Is this a new contest?...that is--nothing carries over? From: DaveL322 at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:11:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted F, Unknown 1, F, Unknown 2. Regards, Dave From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted What sequences will they fly for the finals? RS Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Fri Aug 28 11:33:44 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:33:44 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Correct -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Fri Aug 28 15:30:48 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted Thanks, guys. Is this a new contest?...that is--nothing carries over? ________________________________ From: DaveL322 at comcast.net To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:11:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted F, Unknown 1, F, Unknown 2. Regards, Dave ________________________________ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:13 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted What sequences will they fly for the finals? RS ________________________________ ________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. ________________________________ Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. From rcmaster199 at aol.com Fri Aug 28 14:15:31 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:15:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted In-Reply-To: <324162.77495.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <324162.77495.qm@web80506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBF64422DD872F-21D0-40A7@webmail-d084.sysops.aol.com> Still an outstanding showing by Andy Jesky and the newest, first timer Brett. I think that AJ improved from last time, right? If these young guys stay with it, it won't be long before they are right there. The future is bright for US pattern with these guys coming along superbly MattK -----Original Message----- From: Richard Lewis <humptybump at sbcglobal.net> To: General pattern discussion <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> Sent: Fri, Aug 28, 2009 1:21 pm Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted Looks like only Jason and QQ made the cut...:( ? ? Classification? Dorsal? First Name? Last Name? Country? Total? Panel 1? Panel 2? 1? 72? PAYSANT - LE ROUX? CHRISTOPHE? FRA? 2000.00? 1000.00? 1000.00? 2? 14? SOMENZINI? Quique? USA? 1962.58? 979.07? 977.42? 3? 70? SILVESTRI? SEBASTIANO? ITA? 1959.09? 977.87? 952.33? 4? 69? ONDA? TETSUO? JPN? 1955.13? 984.03? 950.83? 5? 68? SHULMAN? JASON? USA? 1926.51? 963.20? 921.08? 6? 34? SUZUKI? KOJI? JPN? 1885.26? 954.05? 931.21? 7? 90? AKIBA? YOICHIRO? JPN? 1882.30? 956.73? 905.57? 8? 29? BERND? BESCHORNER? GER? 1877.15? 950.63? 885.28? 9? 24? MAYR? GERHRARD? AUT? 1865.02? 957.04? 897.39? 10? 55? PAYSANT - LE ROUX? BENOIT? FRA? 1849.90? 934.69? 915.20? 11? 87? JESKY? ANDREW? USA? 1847.36? 944.47? 902.81? 12? 19? KAISER? STEFAN? LIE? 1845.37? 927.80? 883.93? 13? 31? WICKIZER? BRETT? USA? 1827.06? 908.28? 862.11? 14? 1? DANKSAGMULLER? HELMUT? AUT? 1806.31? 915.87? 878.49? 15? 81? ZEINER? MARKUS? AUT? 1794.03? 916.78? 851.25? 16? 18? NORTHEAST? CHAD? CAN? 1773.76? 921.40? 831.95? 17? 59? MATT? WOLFGANG? LIE? 1760.38? 907.32? 853.06? 18? 41? BURBAUD? LOIC? FRA? 1759.95? 910.59? 824.14? 19? 78? ROMBAUT? JUAN? ESP? 1751.99? 887.67? 840.32? 20? 54? GUENTHER? ULSAMER? GER? 1745.20? 902.72? 820.71? 21? 74? FRIGGERI? LUCA? ITA? 1743.51? 906.90? 782.21? 22? 12? RUBIN? MARK? SUI? 1742.53? 900.06? 842.46? 23? 26? DIERICKX? BENOIT? BEL? 1740.84? 885.17? 823.07? 24? 47? JUN ZHANG? XU? CHN? 1740.71? 891.22? 835.71? 25? 25? FREMMING? OLA? NOR? 1735.76? 903.18? 802.39? 26? 8? SCHADEN? BERNHARD? SUI? 1693.01? 872.73? 820.28? 27? 96? BUTUZOV? SERGEY? RUS? 1692.19? 886.64? 771.76? 28? 32? FRANTISEK? POKORNY? CZE? 1690.61? 884.33? 806.29? 29? 73? COLOMBO? MARCELO? ARG? 1687.78? 869.27? 818.51? 30? 94? SELVA? MASSIMO? SMR? 1657.99? 876.80? 737.16 _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 28 19:22:34 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 03:22:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: One thing stood out on the score sheets--how few 10s were awarded...to anyone... RS > From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:26:17 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted > > Correct > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org > To: General pattern discussion > Sent: Fri Aug 28 15:30:48 2009 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted > > Thanks, guys. Is this a new contest?...that is--nothing carries over? > > > ________________________________ > > From: DaveL322 at comcast.net > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 15:11:07 -0400 > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted > > > > F, Unknown 1, F, Unknown 2. > > > > Regards, > > > > Dave > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland > Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 3:13 PM > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Semis Complete...Standing Posted > > > > What sequences will they fly for the finals? > RS > > > ________________________________ > > > > ________________________________ > > Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. > > > ________________________________ > > Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do online. Find out more. > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdpee at juno.com Sat Aug 29 03:12:36 2009 From: rdpee at juno.com (Ralph D Perillo) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 11:12:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Needed items Message-ID: <20090829.071121.908.0.rdpee@juno.com> Ken I Have an excellent condition es carbon muffled pipe you can have for $75.00, just like new. Ralph Perillo ____________________________________________________________ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYeOogC1La07XKFzVLbcHUa2a4feSvQ1fv5D6TTIvJzwZatuchy/ From brian_w_young at yahoo.com Sat Aug 29 05:03:10 2009 From: brian_w_young at yahoo.com (brian young) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:03:10 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Anyone mess with the unknown schedule maker on the WC site? Kind of interesting, doesnt seem to work on my machine. ? ? ...and prelminary final standings are up. ? http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale2.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 05:09:41 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:09:41 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908290609y31eb00b7n120bc5183908d541@mail.gmail.com> CPLR wins it with two 1000's in the morning session... they are now flying the afternoon session... On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 6:03 AM, brian young wrote: > Anyone mess with the unknown schedule maker on the WC site? Kind of > interesting, doesnt seem to work on my machine. > > > > > > ...and prelminary final standings are up. > > > > http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale2.php > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jrm at ne-aero.com Sat Aug 29 07:20:32 2009 From: jrm at ne-aero.com (John Marien) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:20:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for a 1.20 2C Carbon Fiber Pipe In-Reply-To: References: <02A608AF14244B77BDCF84346477E85E@LLDPC> Message-ID: HI all, I'm looking for a 1.20 2C carbon fiber pipe -- Aero Slave or ES, etc. Thanks, John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdpee at juno.com Sat Aug 29 09:23:25 2009 From: rdpee at juno.com (Ralph D Perillo) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:23:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Looking for a 1.20 2C Carbon Fiber Pipe Message-ID: <20090829.132106.2848.1.rdpee@juno.com> John: I have a ESD2C140X8 it must be for a 1.20-1.40 2c 3/4 -19.00" in excellent condition, has one run through it. Asking $75.00 plus shipping, sounds like what you looking for. I can email you a photo off the nsrca site Thanks: Ralph Perillo NSRCA 440 rdpee at juno.com ____________________________________________________________ Click here for fast, safe, easy money transfers. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOTyZ0mSQXOx3IG6GMastktnhmQC7PXmPHc4YUngUT4VgIYS24TNu/ From DaveL322 at comcast.net Sat Aug 29 09:28:00 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:28:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale4.php Wow..huge changes in the final standings...and FRA wins the Team Championship. Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:03 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial Anyone mess with the unknown schedule maker on the WC site? Kind of interesting, doesnt seem to work on my machine. ...and prelminary final standings are up. http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale2.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rdpee at juno.com Sat Aug 29 09:28:34 2009 From: rdpee at juno.com (Ralph D Perillo) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:28:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Needed items Message-ID: <20090829.132555.2848.3.rdpee@juno.com> What size engine do you need the pipe for. 60 to 90 cc or 120 to 160 cc 2 stroke. I have both in excellent to new condition. Contact me off the list. Ralph Perillo rdpee at juno.com ____________________________________________________________ Advance Your Legal Career Search legal degree programs from the top online colleges! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=95NK2U5yYx2odapalQOpWAAAJ1BKW1_jtp7nWclotPjydF_jAAQAAAAFAAAAAEa2Mz4AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABWGQAAAAAA== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Sat Aug 29 10:01:35 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 18:01:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33227D9A5BBE4887A134D2E55EF4B00C@jaysdesktop> That is a shocker. Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dave Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:24 PM To: 'General pattern discussion' Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale4.php Wow..huge changes in the final standings...and FRA wins the Team Championship. Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:03 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial Anyone mess with the unknown schedule maker on the WC site? Kind of interesting, doesnt seem to work on my machine. ...and prelminary final standings are up. http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale2.php -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From schale at optonline.net Sat Aug 29 11:14:18 2009 From: schale at optonline.net (Stuart Chale) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:14:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A997DE8.1010407@optonline.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Sat Aug 29 12:44:07 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:44:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: <4A997DE8.1010407@optonline.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A997DE8.1010407@optonline.net> Message-ID: <3E1DC905-B2E8-41B6-9F1B-19DA7190A9A3@swtexas.net> They keep one F sequence and one unknown. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Aug 29, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Stuart Chale wrote: > They just count 2 out of 4 and not 3 out of 4? > Seems odd > > Dave wrote: >> >> http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale4.php >> >> Wow?.huge changes in the final standings?..and FRA wins the Team >> Championship. >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- >> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of brian young >> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 9:03 AM >> To: General pattern discussion >> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial >> >> Anyone mess with the unknown schedule maker on the WC site? Kind of >> interesting, doesnt seem to work on my machine. >> >> >> >> >> >> ...and prelminary final standings are up. >> >> >> >> http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/finale2.php >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From milehipilot at gmail.com Sat Aug 29 12:55:47 2009 From: milehipilot at gmail.com (milehipilot at gmail.com) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 20:55:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: <3E1DC905-B2E8-41B6-9F1B-19DA7190A9A3@swtexas.net> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><4A997DE8.1010407@optonline.net><3E1DC905-B2E8-41B6-9F1B-19DA7190A9A3@swtexas.net> Message-ID: <620836648-1251579342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-317424896-@bxe1257.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I thought the preliminaries decided the team standings? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Archie Stafford Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:43:33 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From troy at troynewman.net Sat Aug 29 13:41:56 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:41:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I just set up this mix....and found out that the button is not available as a switch to select to activate the mix. The choices for the mix activation are the MIX, AIL, ELE, RUD switches. Those are the d/r switches. I didn't realize that until I started to set it up. There is an easy way to skin the cat, and Allan Worrest did it for us. I checked his method out and it works like a charm. I have my 12X and 10X time in the air and programming than the 9303. The logic is all pretty much similar just takes a little fooling of the TX to get the task done on the 9303 compared to the 12X. Thanks Allan. I pride myself on knowing how to program these radios and helping guys out with it. This time I was combining programming between the different radios in my head before I actually went and programmed it. So since you can mix any channel to any channel we need to do what is described below. Use a spare channel and have it controlled by the button. In the case below like Allan describes he used AUX 4. This channel is normally controlled by the rudd D/R switch. In the Device Sel menu you just re-assign the channel to the button. Now the button is AUX4. You could choose any of the spare channels and assign them to the button. Then create your mix. I will amend what Allan says below. I prefer to not over drive the throttle servo and make it bind. So you should not use 100% for the mix value. I would suggest say starting with 30-40% and see how far the servo travels. If it kills you are done. If its binding and over driving the servo then reduce the mix value until binding stops. The "THRO STK" part of what is described below is to only have the kill function work below a certain throttle stick position. Meaning it adds another switch on the throttle stick to arm or dis-arm the kill switch. If you set the "thro-STK" value to say 25% then below ? throttle the button will be enabled. If its set to 100% then below full throttle the button will be enabled. I would suggest like Allan that you choose a number down low below say 25 so that the button only activates at low throttle settings. The idea behind this mix is to take the current throttle position and add travel to it. If you choose a 40% mix you are taking the current throttle position say 1/4throttle 25% stick. This would be about L-75% on the output to the servo. So you are driving the servo to L-75% PLUS another 40% so the end result is the servo drives to L-115% or to its kill position. It would act the exact same as setting your travel adjust at 115%. Except when you let go of the button the Travel Adjust is back to the normal values. If you were at full idle stick and your travel adjust was 100% on the Low side L-100 it would drive the servo to 140%. If you are flying electrics I would suggest the toggle option. This way the controller is getting full kill signal after you let go of the button. To raise the throttle output position you then hit the button again and the throttle comes back up. In this case I would set the mix as Butn to throttle and set the values to 125% as the speed controller doesn't have a mechanical linkage to over drive. This would be a good safety to not accidently bump the stick and turn on the motor. I always use the mix switch for my Kill....this way I can flip it and the kill stays on all the time until I flip it back. Also I can physically look at the radio and tell if my kill is "ON" or off. I know the in the 12X the buttons, aux trim tabs can be used as switches for the mixing. The 9303 doesn't offer this capability. Thanks again Allan, I appreciate the help brother. I guess my brain was a little clouded with work, and the new baby. Alexander is smiling and giggling now 9 weeks today. It's pretty cool. Too bad I'm not on his radar yet. Mama has the food, I'm just some bozo that stumbles around trying to change him. He knows I'm not an expert at it.... Hope this helps guys and explains what is going on. Troy Newman From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of AWorrest at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:29 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question For the 9303, to make the trainer button a momentary kill switch, first go to the DeviceSEL menu and set AUX4 to be activated by BUTN. Leave AUX4 output active. In a linear program mix menu, mix AUX4 into THRO. In Pos1 lower position, set the value to +100%. Set the THRO STK to some low value like 12 so the kill will only take place when the throttle stick is in the idle position. The only problems that some people may have is with the timer. If you use the trainer button to start the timer, you will momentarily cause the engine to go low. Most engines will not stop with a quick blip on the button that is needed to start the timer. But if this is a problem, use the timer switch on the front panel. The other thing is that killing the engine will stop the timer. I find this to be a benefit. Allan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwaynenancy at suddenlink.net Sat Aug 29 14:14:36 2009 From: dwaynenancy at suddenlink.net (Dwayne Brown) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:14:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Please explain this set up for a 10X. Thanks, Dwayne -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Troy Newman Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 4:42 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch I just set up this mix .and found out that the button is not available as a switch to select to activate the mix. The choices for the mix activation are the MIX, AIL, ELE, RUD switches. Those are the d/r switches. I didn?t realize that until I started to set it up. There is an easy way to skin the cat, and Allan Worrest did it for us. I checked his method out and it works like a charm. I have my 12X and 10X time in the air and programming than the 9303. The logic is all pretty much similar just takes a little fooling of the TX to get the task done on the 9303 compared to the 12X. Thanks Allan. I pride myself on knowing how to program these radios and helping guys out with it. This time I was combining programming between the different radios in my head before I actually went and programmed it. So since you can mix any channel to any channel we need to do what is described below. Use a spare channel and have it controlled by the button. In the case below like Allan describes he used AUX 4. This channel is normally controlled by the rudd D/R switch. In the Device Sel menu you just re-assign the channel to the button. Now the button is AUX4. You could choose any of the spare channels and assign them to the button. Then create your mix. I will amend what Allan says below. I prefer to not over drive the throttle servo and make it bind. So you should not use 100% for the mix value. I would suggest say starting with 30-40% and see how far the servo travels. If it kills you are done. If its binding and over driving the servo then reduce the mix value until binding stops. The ?THRO STK? part of what is described below is to only have the kill function work below a certain throttle stick position. Meaning it adds another switch on the throttle stick to arm or dis-arm the kill switch. If you set the ?thro-STK? value to say 25% then below ? throttle the button will be enabled. If its set to 100% then below full throttle the button will be enabled. I would suggest like Allan that you choose a number down low below say 25 so that the button only activates at low throttle settings. The idea behind this mix is to take the current throttle position and add travel to it. If you choose a 40% mix you are taking the current throttle position say 1/4throttle 25% stick. This would be about L-75% on the output to the servo. So you are driving the servo to L-75% PLUS another 40% so the end result is the servo drives to L-115% or to its kill position. It would act the exact same as setting your travel adjust at 115%. Except when you let go of the button the Travel Adjust is back to the normal values. If you were at full idle stick and your travel adjust was 100% on the Low side L-100 it would drive the servo to 140%. If you are flying electrics I would suggest the toggle option. This way the controller is getting full kill signal after you let go of the button. To raise the throttle output position you then hit the button again and the throttle comes back up. In this case I would set the mix as Butn to throttle and set the values to 125% as the speed controller doesn?t have a mechanical linkage to over drive. This would be a good safety to not accidently bump the stick and turn on the motor. I always use the mix switch for my Kill .this way I can flip it and the kill stays on all the time until I flip it back. Also I can physically look at the radio and tell if my kill is ?ON? or off. I know the in the 12X the buttons, aux trim tabs can be used as switches for the mixing. The 9303 doesn?t offer this capability. Thanks again Allan, I appreciate the help brother. I guess my brain was a little clouded with work, and the new baby. Alexander is smiling and giggling now 9 weeks today. It?s pretty cool. Too bad I?m not on his radar yet. Mama has the food, I?m just some bozo that stumbles around trying to change him. He knows I?m not an expert at it . Hope this helps guys and explains what is going on. Troy Newman From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of AWorrest at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:29 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question For the 9303, to make the trainer button a momentary kill switch, first go to the DeviceSEL menu and set AUX4 to be activated by BUTN. Leave AUX4 output active. In a linear program mix menu, mix AUX4 into THRO. In Pos1 lower position, set the value to +100%. Set the THRO STK to some low value like 12 so the kill will only take place when the throttle stick is in the idle position. The only problems that some people may have is with the timer. If you use the trainer button to start the timer, you will momentarily cause the engine to go low. Most engines will not stop with a quick blip on the button that is needed to start the timer. But if this is a problem, use the timer switch on the front panel. The other thing is that killing the engine will stop the timer. I find this to be a benefit. Allan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ed_alt at hotmail.com Sat Aug 29 14:20:21 2009 From: ed_alt at hotmail.com (Ed Alt) Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:20:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch References: Message-ID: Troy: This is pretty slick. Just one comment though, re. the toggle setup for use on an electric. How do you know where you've left it? In other words, suppose you're fiddling around with the radio for some other reason and you simply lose track of the state of the kill button. Now you put a battery in and since you can't check the state of a toggle kill switch, you may assume it's in the kill state when it's not. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like this has some risk built into it. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Newman To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch I just set up this mix..and found out that the button is not available as a switch to select to activate the mix. The choices for the mix activation are the MIX, AIL, ELE, RUD switches. Those are the d/r switches. I didn't realize that until I started to set it up. There is an easy way to skin the cat, and Allan Worrest did it for us. I checked his method out and it works like a charm. I have my 12X and 10X time in the air and programming than the 9303. The logic is all pretty much similar just takes a little fooling of the TX to get the task done on the 9303 compared to the 12X. Thanks Allan. I pride myself on knowing how to program these radios and helping guys out with it. This time I was combining programming between the different radios in my head before I actually went and programmed it. So since you can mix any channel to any channel we need to do what is described below. Use a spare channel and have it controlled by the button. In the case below like Allan describes he used AUX 4. This channel is normally controlled by the rudd D/R switch. In the Device Sel menu you just re-assign the channel to the button. Now the button is AUX4. You could choose any of the spare channels and assign them to the button. Then create your mix. I will amend what Allan says below. I prefer to not over drive the throttle servo and make it bind. So you should not use 100% for the mix value. I would suggest say starting with 30-40% and see how far the servo travels. If it kills you are done. If its binding and over driving the servo then reduce the mix value until binding stops. The "THRO STK" part of what is described below is to only have the kill function work below a certain throttle stick position. Meaning it adds another switch on the throttle stick to arm or dis-arm the kill switch. If you set the "thro-STK" value to say 25% then below ? throttle the button will be enabled. If its set to 100% then below full throttle the button will be enabled. I would suggest like Allan that you choose a number down low below say 25 so that the button only activates at low throttle settings. The idea behind this mix is to take the current throttle position and add travel to it. If you choose a 40% mix you are taking the current throttle position say 1/4throttle 25% stick. This would be about L-75% on the output to the servo. So you are driving the servo to L-75% PLUS another 40% so the end result is the servo drives to L-115% or to its kill position. It would act the exact same as setting your travel adjust at 115%. Except when you let go of the button the Travel Adjust is back to the normal values. If you were at full idle stick and your travel adjust was 100% on the Low side L-100 it would drive the servo to 140%. If you are flying electrics I would suggest the toggle option. This way the controller is getting full kill signal after you let go of the button. To raise the throttle output position you then hit the button again and the throttle comes back up. In this case I would set the mix as Butn to throttle and set the values to 125% as the speed controller doesn't have a mechanical linkage to over drive. This would be a good safety to not accidently bump the stick and turn on the motor. I always use the mix switch for my Kill..this way I can flip it and the kill stays on all the time until I flip it back. Also I can physically look at the radio and tell if my kill is "ON" or off. I know the in the 12X the buttons, aux trim tabs can be used as switches for the mixing. The 9303 doesn't offer this capability. Thanks again Allan, I appreciate the help brother. I guess my brain was a little clouded with work, and the new baby. Alexander is smiling and giggling now 9 weeks today. It's pretty cool. Too bad I'm not on his radar yet. Mama has the food, I'm just some bozo that stumbles around trying to change him. He knows I'm not an expert at it.. Hope this helps guys and explains what is going on. Troy Newman From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of AWorrest at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:29 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question For the 9303, to make the trainer button a momentary kill switch, first go to the DeviceSEL menu and set AUX4 to be activated by BUTN. Leave AUX4 output active. In a linear program mix menu, mix AUX4 into THRO. In Pos1 lower position, set the value to +100%. Set the THRO STK to some low value like 12 so the kill will only take place when the throttle stick is in the idle position. The only problems that some people may have is with the timer. If you use the trainer button to start the timer, you will momentarily cause the engine to go low. Most engines will not stop with a quick blip on the button that is needed to start the timer. But if this is a problem, use the timer switch on the front panel. The other thing is that killing the engine will stop the timer. I find this to be a benefit. Allan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AWorrest at aol.com Sat Aug 29 18:45:54 2009 From: AWorrest at aol.com (AWorrest at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:45:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch Message-ID: Troy, Thanks for the kind words. There is nothing in the 9303 transmitter menus (either XP or X) that would lead one to believe that the trainer button could be used for a momentary kill switch. In 2005 after messing up my carburetor one too many times because I hadn't notice the toggle switch was in the "kill" position, I start looking for a way to implement a momentary kill. I noticed that the XP manual on page A-10 for DeviceSEL had called the trainer button a "SNAP SW" not "BUTN" as in the transmitter menu. That gave me a clue. I agree with you that a toggle should be used for a kill on an electric. For an electric you want a kill that stays a kill. There still are times I forget about the toggle that causes me to wonder why my electric motor doesn't respond to the throttle. But when that occurs, I don't have a carb to mess up. Allan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From troy at troynewman.net Sat Aug 29 19:22:52 2009 From: troy at troynewman.net (Troy Newman) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 03:22:52 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ed, The speed controller still has its arming process. My experience and it's not as vast as some with the electric is that the throttle must be down low as in at idle or below to arm the controller and get all the little beeps that are required. I was thinking more in terms of a landing and carrying back to the pits with the battery still plugged in...not so much on the initial power up. You have your controller and its musical interpretation to tell you it is armed. With this kill switch...you are driving the controller to below idle position so the controller will still arm with the musical beeps, but when you advance the power its dead and will not take power...until maybe up near the full throttle position when your -125% can't overcome the high side of throttle. I still say that you should always have a holder on your model even with electrics. We had a nasty issue at the D7 Champs last year regarding this issue. Somebody could have been injured. Not because of electric but because we have trained ourselves over the years that prop no turn is safe. The problem is electric can start on its own. A pilot didn't think when he didn't have the pin on 72mhz and turned on his RX....The guys flying on his channel was flying the same brand radio, and same freq and the model armed when the guys flying was at idle and throttled up when the flying pilot throttled up as well. The problem was nobody was holding the plane...and it was "in the ready box. Nobody hurt but the plane that "taxied" unmanned came around and hit another model. If the guy that was getting ready to start his plane had been on his knees in front of it ...there would have been a whole lot different. So be careful...Mark Atwood had an issue a couple weeks ago. I know I fly alone a bunch...same issues. Get a helper to hold the plane. Or get some sort of a stand like I have that holes the plane and keeps it from coming at me. Tony Frakowiak lost a finger flying alone and doing the same stuff. Props are dangerous things. Electric is easy and can lull you into poor safety practices. I cut my arm up pretty good last fall with a foamy. Again poor safety practices. I have a Eflite 25 sized AT-6 and Beaver along with the T-28 Trojan from Park zone, and several other smaller electrics I have been flying lately. I have this kill setup on those models and I'm flying off the X9303.....I use the MIX switch so I can look at the switch to tell its position. Troy From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ed Alt Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:20 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch Troy: This is pretty slick. Just one comment though, re. the toggle setup for use on an electric. How do you know where you've left it? In other words, suppose you're fiddling around with the radio for some other reason and you simply lose track of the state of the kill button. Now you put a battery in and since you can't check the state of a toggle kill switch, you may assume it's in the kill state when it's not. Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like this has some risk built into it. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Troy Newman To: General pattern discussion Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 4:41 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question 9303 kill switch I just set up this mix....and found out that the button is not available as a switch to select to activate the mix. The choices for the mix activation are the MIX, AIL, ELE, RUD switches. Those are the d/r switches. I didn't realize that until I started to set it up. There is an easy way to skin the cat, and Allan Worrest did it for us. I checked his method out and it works like a charm. I have my 12X and 10X time in the air and programming than the 9303. The logic is all pretty much similar just takes a little fooling of the TX to get the task done on the 9303 compared to the 12X. Thanks Allan. I pride myself on knowing how to program these radios and helping guys out with it. This time I was combining programming between the different radios in my head before I actually went and programmed it. So since you can mix any channel to any channel we need to do what is described below. Use a spare channel and have it controlled by the button. In the case below like Allan describes he used AUX 4. This channel is normally controlled by the rudd D/R switch. In the Device Sel menu you just re-assign the channel to the button. Now the button is AUX4. You could choose any of the spare channels and assign them to the button. Then create your mix. I will amend what Allan says below. I prefer to not over drive the throttle servo and make it bind. So you should not use 100% for the mix value. I would suggest say starting with 30-40% and see how far the servo travels. If it kills you are done. If its binding and over driving the servo then reduce the mix value until binding stops. The "THRO STK" part of what is described below is to only have the kill function work below a certain throttle stick position. Meaning it adds another switch on the throttle stick to arm or dis-arm the kill switch. If you set the "thro-STK" value to say 25% then below ? throttle the button will be enabled. If its set to 100% then below full throttle the button will be enabled. I would suggest like Allan that you choose a number down low below say 25 so that the button only activates at low throttle settings. The idea behind this mix is to take the current throttle position and add travel to it. If you choose a 40% mix you are taking the current throttle position say 1/4throttle 25% stick. This would be about L-75% on the output to the servo. So you are driving the servo to L-75% PLUS another 40% so the end result is the servo drives to L-115% or to its kill position. It would act the exact same as setting your travel adjust at 115%. Except when you let go of the button the Travel Adjust is back to the normal values. If you were at full idle stick and your travel adjust was 100% on the Low side L-100 it would drive the servo to 140%. If you are flying electrics I would suggest the toggle option. This way the controller is getting full kill signal after you let go of the button. To raise the throttle output position you then hit the button again and the throttle comes back up. In this case I would set the mix as Butn to throttle and set the values to 125% as the speed controller doesn't have a mechanical linkage to over drive. This would be a good safety to not accidently bump the stick and turn on the motor. I always use the mix switch for my Kill....this way I can flip it and the kill stays on all the time until I flip it back. Also I can physically look at the radio and tell if my kill is "ON" or off. I know the in the 12X the buttons, aux trim tabs can be used as switches for the mixing. The 9303 doesn't offer this capability. Thanks again Allan, I appreciate the help brother. I guess my brain was a little clouded with work, and the new baby. Alexander is smiling and giggling now 9 weeks today. It's pretty cool. Too bad I'm not on his radar yet. Mama has the food, I'm just some bozo that stumbles around trying to change him. He knows I'm not an expert at it.... Hope this helps guys and explains what is going on. Troy Newman From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of AWorrest at aol.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:29 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR question For the 9303, to make the trainer button a momentary kill switch, first go to the DeviceSEL menu and set AUX4 to be activated by BUTN. Leave AUX4 output active. In a linear program mix menu, mix AUX4 into THRO. In Pos1 lower position, set the value to +100%. Set the THRO STK to some low value like 12 so the kill will only take place when the throttle stick is in the idle position. The only problems that some people may have is with the timer. If you use the trainer button to start the timer, you will momentarily cause the engine to go low. Most engines will not stop with a quick blip on the button that is needed to start the timer. But if this is a problem, use the timer switch on the front panel. The other thing is that killing the engine will stop the timer. I find this to be a benefit. Allan ________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kennedybryan at bellsouth.net Sun Aug 30 04:15:28 2009 From: kennedybryan at bellsouth.net (Bryan Kennedy) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:15:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 41st Annual Rocket City Pattern Contest (Huntsville, AL) Message-ID: <395457A2462B464FA043F133945F3EA8@BryanKennedyPC> Were getting close. Just a reminder the RCRC pattern contest will be held September 12th-13th in Huntsville, AL. Please make plans to attend Great facility, paved runway, covered pit area. Look forward to seeing everyone, don't forget to pre-register, http://www.rocketcityrc.com/events/2009-Pattern/reg_form.php Thanks Bryan Contest Director -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Snaproll4 at aol.com Sun Aug 30 05:09:39 2009 From: Snaproll4 at aol.com (Snaproll4 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 13:09:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question Message-ID: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Sun Aug 30 06:16:45 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:16:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question Message-ID: There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Sun Aug 30 06:44:06 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:44:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Same way I discharged mine (accidently).Leave them in the plane with all switches on (but for safety, disconnect one of the motor wires) lol Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of AtwoodDon at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:17 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 30 06:59:45 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 14:59:45 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090830145944.CE66B115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery without a "trade-in". I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and animal safety... At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: >There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I >have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, >I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave >them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. > >For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light >bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and >clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I >would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the >bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from >time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the >battery in the trash. > >I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for >me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I >took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on >the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. > >Don > >In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: >I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not >appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the >voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My >TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. > >TIA. > >Steve > > >---------- > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > >---------- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From AtwoodDon at aol.com Sun Aug 30 07:22:11 2009 From: AtwoodDon at aol.com (AtwoodDon at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:22:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! Message-ID: The research I did says the chemical properties of a lipo break down on full discharge to a state where they are not environmentally harmful. However, if you don't agree, physically disposing of the discharge lipos in a environmentally 'safe' certainly will be the safest way to get rid of them. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 8:00:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chuenkan at comcast.net writes: You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery without a "trade-in". I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and animal safety... At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) ____________________________________ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org _http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion_ (http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion) --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: _http://www.kcrctn.com _ (http://www.kcrctn.com/) AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: _http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ _ (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/) (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lightfoot at sc.rr.com Sun Aug 30 07:22:34 2009 From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com (Jay Marshall) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:22:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! In-Reply-To: <20090830145944.CE66B115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <38BCE73B0CAE461C95C250FE0F7F349D@jaysdesktop> According to all the info I can find, LiPo batteries are not a problem to the environment and can be disposed of in the trash after discharge: http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/PDF/DISPOSAL-OF-LIPO-BATTERIES.pdf Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:00 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery without a "trade-in". I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and animal safety... At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _____ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Sun Aug 30 07:59:21 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:59:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! In-Reply-To: <38BCE73B0CAE461C95C250FE0F7F349D@jaysdesktop> References: <20090830145944.CE66B115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> <38BCE73B0CAE461C95C250FE0F7F349D@jaysdesktop> Message-ID: That is right... the idea of soaking the batteries in salt water for a week is to break them down into inert matter. Then they are supposedly safe for the landfill. Rex From: lightfoot at sc.rr.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 11:22:23 -0400 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! According to all the info I can find, LiPo batteries are not a problem to the environment and can be disposed of in the trash after discharge: http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/PDF/DISPOSAL-OF-LIPO-BATTERIES.pdf Jay Marshall -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Phil Spelt Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:00 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery without a "trade-in". I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and animal safety... At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From glen59shep at yahoo.com Sun Aug 30 08:01:14 2009 From: glen59shep at yahoo.com (Glen Shepherd) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:01:14 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] North Dallas Pattern Contest Message-ID: <669.91282.qm@web34307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The North Dallas Club pattern contest (NDRCC Pattern Classic) will be held on September 19th and 20th. Dave Cotton is the CD, 972-517-2752(eve) E-Mail: p.cotton at verizon.net All AMA classes will be flown and FAI will fly P11 Saturday and Sunday. We look forward to seeing you! A contest flier will be available shortly but here is the link to the club web site for the contest details http://www.ndrcc.com/asp/modules/events/showme2.asp?category=Contest Location Eagle Field, Aubrey ,TX http://www.ndrcc.com/asp/modules/userpages/showme2.asp?subid=145 Hotels: http://www.ndrcc.com/asp/modules/userpages/showme2.asp?subid=199 Glen Shepherd NSRCA 3017 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chuenkan at comcast.net Sun Aug 30 08:14:01 2009 From: chuenkan at comcast.net (Phil Spelt) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:14:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090830161401.30D06115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> OK, I accept what you say about Lipos. Bit I know NiCds are not to be tossed, nor cells with lead in them. I still don't believe that lithium gong into the ecosystem is safe, however...I'll do mine my way. At 11:22 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: >The research I did says the chemical properties of a lipo break down >on full discharge to a state where they are not environmentally >harmful. However, if you don't agree, physically disposing of the >discharge lipos in a environmentally 'safe' certainly will be the >safest way to get rid of them. > >Don > >In a message dated 8/30/2009 8:00:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >chuenkan at comcast.net writes: >You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". > > Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological > systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the > water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to > treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid > manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, > that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery > without a "trade-in". > >I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking >about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable >battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, >with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can >also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no >charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month >the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and >TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. > >PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and >animal safety... > >At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: >>There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I >>have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, >>however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just >>leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. >> >>For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light >>bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points >>and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, >>I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the >>bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from >>time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the >>battery in the trash. >> >>I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for >>me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I >>took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load >>on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old >>brushed motor, etc. >> >>Don >> >>In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, >>Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: >>I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does >>not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the >>voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My >>TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. >> >>TIA. >> >>Steve >> >> >>---------- >> >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >> >> >>---------- >>_______________________________________________ >>NSRCA-discussion mailing list >>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >--> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. > >Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control >Society, Inc. > URL: http://www.kcrctn.com >AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 > My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ > (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > >---------- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -->There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moleski at canisius.edu Sun Aug 30 08:47:06 2009 From: moleski at canisius.edu (Martin X. Moleski, SJ) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:47:06 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! In-Reply-To: <20090830161401.30D06115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <20090830161401.30D06115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <4A9AAD02.5090401@canisius.edu> Phil Spelt wrote: > ... I still don't believe that lithium > going into the ecosystem is safe, however...I'll do mine my way. Lithium is the lightest metal (the third element in the periodic table). Nickle (AN 28) and Cadmium (AN 48) are heavy metals by contrast. Lithium is highly reactive. Cadmium is toxic. Nickle is neither. CR Lithium Safe for disposal in the municipal waste stream. Non-consumers should first fully discharge the battery prior to disposal. Lithium-Ion All Panasonic Lithium Ion batteries are classified by the federal government as non-hazardous waste and are safe for disposal in the normal municipal waste stream. These batteries, however, do contain recyclable materials and are accepted for recycling by the Rechargeable Battery Recycling Corporation's (RBRC) Battery Recycling Program. Please call 1-800-8-BATTERY for information on recycling your used Lithium Ion battery or go to the RBRC website at www.rbrc.org for additional information. Recycling is not required but may make good sense anyway: . Marty From CHV69 at aol.com Sun Aug 30 14:16:16 2009 From: CHV69 at aol.com (CHV69 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:16:16 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! Message-ID: In a message dated 8/30/2009 11:22:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, AtwoodDon at aol.com writes: The research I did says the chemical properties of a lipo break down on full discharge to a state where they are not environmentally harmful. However, if you don't agree, physically disposing of the discharge lipos in a environmentally 'safe' certainly will be the safest way to get rid of them. I was under the impression the sat water bath changed the chemistry of the Lipo Battery. Not only would one have to drain the battery, but also puncture the battery to allow the salt water bath to do it's job. Once done properly, the battery chemistry is harmless. I do agree the Radio Shack route sounds better. Carl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From trexlesh at msn.com Sun Aug 30 15:08:07 2009 From: trexlesh at msn.com (Rex) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:08:07 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! In-Reply-To: <20090830161401.30D06115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> References: <20090830161401.30D06115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: Speaking of NiCads.... I have read that this is the last year they will be sold or used in Europe... They have been outlawed there. I'm wondering how long before the rest of the world follows suit?.... Even if they will still be available in the US, how much supply will be available and at what price? I'm sure the price will rise sharply. Rex Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:14:00 -0400 To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org From: chuenkan at comcast.net Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! OK, I accept what you say about Lipos. Bit I know NiCds are not to be tossed, nor cells with lead in them. I still don't believe that lithium gong into the ecosystem is safe, however...I'll do mine my way. At 11:22 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: The research I did says the chemical properties of a lipo break down on full discharge to a state where they are not environmentally harmful. However, if you don't agree, physically disposing of the discharge lipos in a environmentally 'safe' certainly will be the safest way to get rid of them. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 8:00:17 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chuenkan at comcast.net writes: You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery without a "trade-in". I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and animal safety... At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Sun Aug 30 15:41:01 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 23:41:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> First I want to thank Rick Cilles and his family and club members for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this weekend. This contest gets better and better each year with better attendance, a focus on good flying, good fun and GREAT food!! But during this contest we had some conversations about all the "how do we grow pattern" discussions and I came to the conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can completely control, is for those that are already IN pattern...to support pattern. GO TO CONTESTS!!!!! Seriously. If we could get the people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local (regional) contests, the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way to promote and encourage others to try it. Head count at local contests would go up helping them financially, reducing the amount of judging load on the participants (increasing their enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new sportsman pilots would feel like they attended a contest, not a local gathering. So how do we get all the people on this list to commit to 3 or 4 contests a season?? Or maybe just increase the number they normally go to by 1?? If we all went to 1 more contest the impact would be huge I think. Thoughts??? PS, A big thank you and congrats to Dave Johnstone our D4 VP for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it with only 1 day of practice. Great job!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Sun Aug 30 20:59:28 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:59:28 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! References: <20090830145944.CE66B115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> Message-ID: <005601ca29f7$cee55f40$9501a8c0@GW7422> Yup my local Radio Shack will take just about any rechargable battery I bring them. I just remove the connectors and tape up the leads to make sure they don't accidentally touch something. I keep a plastic box in the shop for old batteries and when it gets full I just bring them all down to the Shack. Easy. John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery without a "trade-in". I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and animal safety... At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com Mon Aug 31 02:03:31 2009 From: KTHOMPSON56 at satx.rr.com (Ken Thompson) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:03:31 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! References: <20090830145944.CE66B115F3@bridi.netexpress.com> <005601ca29f7$cee55f40$9501a8c0@GW7422> Message-ID: <001201ca2a23$14c5cdd0$0200a8c0@kencopepere> We use a lot of batteries in our industry, mostly NiCad and lead acid...the recycling center where we take our scrap cylinders buys our old batteries. We usually collect more from our old batteries than we do the scrap steel. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: John Pavlick To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 11:59 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! Yup my local Radio Shack will take just about any rechargable battery I bring them. I just remove the connectors and tape up the leads to make sure they don't accidentally touch something. I keep a plastic box in the shop for old batteries and when it gets full I just bring them all down to the Shack. Easy. John Pavlick http://www.idseng.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Spelt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:59 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Li-Po Question -- SAFETY!!!! You do NOT "just throw rechargeable batteries into the trash". Cadmium and lithium are heavy metals that cause harm to biological systems when ingested improperly -- i.e. from seeping into the water table from landfills. Lithium is used in SMALL QUANTITIES to treat some kinds of mental disorders, but that is under rigid manufacturing and dosing conditions. Lead is also a heavy metal, that is why there is an extra charge when one buys a car battery without a "trade-in". I was in RadShack the other day, and we happened to start talking about recycling these batteries -- they will take ANY rechargeable battery except auto batteries, including our R/C NicCads and Lipos, with no charge, and send them to a proper recycling center. You can also usually take them to local govt. recycling centers for no charge. Here in Oak Ridge, TN, every Wed and one Saturday per month the center is open for all kinds of hazardous items -- old PCs and TVs, paint, florescent bulbs, and on, and on. PLEASE recycle - not because of tree-hugging, but for human and animal safety... At 10:16 AM 8/30/2009, you wrote: There are many ways to drain the battery down to safe levels. I have heard the lipos are 'safe' anywhere below 2V per cell, however, I figure as long as I have something draining them, I just leave them on the load until they are basically 'dead'. For anything up to 3 cells, I use an automobile tail light bulb. Just solder 2 leads onto the bulb at the 2 contact points and clip the other ends onto the battery leads. For a 5 cell pack, I would use 2 bulbs in series. Put them in a safe area, clip the bulbs on and leave them for a couple days. Check the voltage from time to time and when it gets down to about zero, just throw the battery in the trash. I tried the salt water bath approach and it didn't do anything for me. After a couple days, the voltage had declined very little so I took the light bulb approach. Actually anything that puts a load on the batteries will work. A large resistor, light bulb, old brushed motor, etc. Don In a message dated 8/30/2009 6:10:08 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Snaproll4 at aol.com writes: I have a Li-Po pack(5000) that needs to be thrown away. It does not appear to be physically damaged, but I need to know about the voltage. How low should I discharge it and I how do I do that? My TP charger would take it down to 3.3 volts/cell. TIA. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion --> There are only two types of aircraft -- fighters and targets. Phil Spelt, Webmaster & Past President, Knox County Radio Control Society, Inc. URL: http://www.kcrctn.com AMA--1294, Scientific Leader Member, SPA--177 My URL: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/~chuenkan/ (865) 435-1476 v (865) 604-0541 c ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 05:38:32 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:38:32 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks Message-ID: <277085.65478.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP From pcosky at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 05:56:46 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 13:56:46 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern"thought References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: I'll second that, what a great meet to go to after an almost 4 year break from flying pattern, and flying in general. Rick did a great job and all those who helped really made it a nice experience. Great flying site too. Sportsman was the largest group with 5 contestants. Now if we can get Rick to do a primer in the Spring....... ----- Original Message ----- From: Atwood, Mark To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:33 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern"thought First I want to thank Rick Cilles and his family and club members for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this weekend. This contest gets better and better each year with better attendance, a focus on good flying, good fun and GREAT food!! But during this contest we had some conversations about all the "how do we grow pattern" discussions and I came to the conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can completely control, is for those that are already IN pattern.to support pattern. GO TO CONTESTS!!!!! Seriously. If we could get the people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local (regional) contests, the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way to promote and encourage others to try it. Head count at local contests would go up helping them financially, reducing the amount of judging load on the participants (increasing their enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new sportsman pilots would feel like they attended a contest, not a local gathering. So how do we get all the people on this list to commit to 3 or 4 contests a season?? Or maybe just increase the number they normally go to by 1?? If we all went to 1 more contest the impact would be huge I think. Thoughts??? PS, A big thank you and congrats to Dave Johnstone our D4 VP for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it with only 1 day of practice. Great job!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vicenterc at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 06:14:03 2009 From: vicenterc at comcast.net (Vicente "Vince" Bortone) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:14:03 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks In-Reply-To: <277085.65478.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1037332338.901021251728042800.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> I second Mike.? I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes.??I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern?contest for 52 years.??I think this could be a?record.??? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller " To: nsrca -discussion at lists. nsrca .org Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks ?Thanks to Bill Ahrens , Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. ?We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. ?The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. ?We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. ?I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP ?? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists. nsrca .org http ://lists. nsrca .org/mailman/ listinfo / nsrca -discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpavlick at idseng.com Mon Aug 31 06:35:18 2009 From: jpavlick at idseng.com (John Pavlick) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:35:18 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks In-Reply-To: <1037332338.901021251728042800.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <226938.29819.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> That's really cool but?I'm pretty sure?the ?AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record?for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM #yiv1534406256 p {margin:0;} I second Mike.? I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes.??I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern?contest for 52 years.??I think this could be a?record.??? Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks ?Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. ?We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. ?The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. ?We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. ?I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP ?? ? ? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 06:41:17 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 14:41:17 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <138584.43658.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I third Mark and Pete's comments, it was a fun weekend. Refreshing to see the number Sportsman pilots competing. Rick, does the "Chicken Man" deliver to Michigan? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:33:25 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought First I want to thank Rick Cilles and his family and club members for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this weekend. This contest gets better and better each year with better attendance, a focus on good flying, good fun and GREAT food!! But during this contest we had some conversations about all the ?how do we grow pattern? discussions and I came to the conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can completely control, is for those that are already IN pattern?to support pattern. GO TO CONTESTS!!!!! Seriously. If we could get the people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local (regional) contests, the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way to promote and encourage others to try it. Head count at local contests would go up helping them financially, reducing the amount of judging load on the participants (increasing their enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new sportsman pilots would feel like they attended a contest, not a local gathering. So how do we get all the people on this list to commit to 3 or 4 contests a season?? Or maybe just increase the number they normally go to by 1?? If we all went to 1 more contest the impact would be huge I think. Thoughts??? PS, A big thank you and congrats to Dave Johnstone our D4 VP for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it with only 1 day of practice. Great job!! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pamrich47 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 07:07:54 2009 From: pamrich47 at hotmail.com (Richard Strickland) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:07:54 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks In-Reply-To: <226938.29819.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1037332338.901021251728042800.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <226938.29819.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but I'm pretty sure the AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM I second Mike. I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes. I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern contest for 52 years. I think this could be a record. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Mon Aug 31 07:11:09 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:11:09 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Hi Guys, Is there a link to some photo collections from the 2009 US Nats? Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08 AM To: NSRCA DISCUSSION Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS ________________________________ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but I'm pretty sure the AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM I second Mike. I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes. I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern contest for 52 years. I think this could be a record. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Hotmail(r) is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 07:19:37 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:19:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought In-Reply-To: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> Message-ID: <9046.13802.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Very good points Mark. I think we need for the exisiting pilots to take someone who has potential under their wing. If half the existing guys could find 1 guy then we would be pretty healthy and grow. Mike --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I want to thank Rick Cilles and > his family and club members > for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this > weekend.?? This > contest gets better and better each year with better > attendance, a focus on good > flying, good fun and GREAT food!! > > ? > > But during this contest we had some > conversations about all > the ?how do we grow pattern? discussions and I > came to the > conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can > completely control, > is for those that are already IN pattern?to support > pattern.? GO TO > CONTESTS!!!!!?? Seriously.? ??If > we could get the > people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local > (regional) contests, > the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way > to promote and > encourage others to try it. > > ? > > Head count at local contests would go > up helping them financially, > reducing the amount of judging load on the participants > (increasing their > enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new > sportsman pilots > would feel like they attended a contest, not a local > gathering.? > > ? > > So how do we get all the people on > this list to commit to 3 > or 4 contests a season??? Or maybe just increase the > number they normally > go to by 1???? If we all went to 1 more contest > the impact would be > huge I think. > > ? > > Thoughts??? > > ? > > PS, A big thank you and congrats to > Dave Johnstone our D4 VP > for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it > with only 1 day of > practice.? Great job!! > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From wilsorc at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 07:51:39 2009 From: wilsorc at gmail.com (Bob Wilson) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 15:51:39 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought In-Reply-To: <9046.13802.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <9046.13802.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <888fdd980908310851p45ff8b85md8bee3c12fff9ef9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mike, I really wanted to attend the St. Louis event, but family events wouldn't allow it. Glad to hear you guys had a great time. Look forward to seeing you all at St. Charles next weekend. Bob On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:19 AM, mike mueller wrote: > Very good points Mark. > I think we need for the exisiting pilots to take someone who has potential > under their wing. If half the existing guys could find 1 guy then we would > be pretty healthy and grow. > Mike > > --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > From: Atwood, Mark > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" > thought > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I want to thank Rick Cilles and > > his family and club members > > for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this > > weekend. This > > contest gets better and better each year with better > > attendance, a focus on good > > flying, good fun and GREAT food!! > > > > > > > > But during this contest we had some > > conversations about all > > the ?how do we grow pattern? discussions and I > > came to the > > conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can > > completely control, > > is for those that are already IN pattern?to support > > pattern. GO TO > > CONTESTS!!!!! Seriously. If > > we could get the > > people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local > > (regional) contests, > > the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way > > to promote and > > encourage others to try it. > > > > > > > > Head count at local contests would go > > up helping them financially, > > reducing the amount of judging load on the participants > > (increasing their > > enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new > > sportsman pilots > > would feel like they attended a contest, not a local > > gathering. > > > > > > > > So how do we get all the people on > > this list to commit to 3 > > or 4 contests a season?? Or maybe just increase the > > number they normally > > go to by 1?? If we all went to 1 more contest > > the impact would be > > huge I think. > > > > > > > > Thoughts??? > > > > > > > > PS, A big thank you and congrats to > > Dave Johnstone our D4 VP > > for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it > > with only 1 day of > > practice. Great job!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atwoodm at paragon-inc.com Mon Aug 31 08:01:12 2009 From: atwoodm at paragon-inc.com (Atwood, Mark) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:01:12 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought Message-ID: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB89F@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> I agree. But I want to be clear that my point is that I'd like to see everyone on this list try to attend ONE more contest next year than they did this year. If your norm is to attend 2, try to get to three. Etc. The positive impact of that attendence is too long to list. Growth creates growth. Hard to explain, but if we increase our own attendence, that's a form of growth. That alone will make contests just a little better, a little more inviting, a little more fun. That makes those who are newly exposed to it even more interested. It snowballs from there. -m -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld ----- Original Message ----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org To: General pattern discussion Sent: Mon Aug 31 11:19:35 2009 Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought Very good points Mark. I think we need for the exisiting pilots to take someone who has potential under their wing. If half the existing guys could find 1 guy then we would be pretty healthy and grow. Mike --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I want to thank Rick Cilles and > his family and club members > for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this > weekend.?? This > contest gets better and better each year with better > attendance, a focus on good > flying, good fun and GREAT food!! > > ? > > But during this contest we had some > conversations about all > the ?how do we grow pattern? discussions and I > came to the > conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can > completely control, > is for those that are already IN pattern?to support > pattern.? GO TO > CONTESTS!!!!!?? Seriously.? ??If > we could get the > people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local > (regional) contests, > the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way > to promote and > encourage others to try it. > > ? > > Head count at local contests would go > up helping them financially, > reducing the amount of judging load on the participants > (increasing their > enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new > sportsman pilots > would feel like they attended a contest, not a local > gathering.? > > ? > > So how do we get all the people on > this list to commit to 3 > or 4 contests a season??? Or maybe just increase the > number they normally > go to by 1???? If we all went to 1 more contest > the impact would be > huge I think. > > ? > > Thoughts??? > > ? > > PS, A big thank you and congrats to > Dave Johnstone our D4 VP > for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it > with only 1 day of > practice.? Great job!! > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From d_bodary at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 08:03:38 2009 From: d_bodary at yahoo.com (Dennis Bodary) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:03:38 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought In-Reply-To: <138584.43658.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <107321.20466.qm@web51710.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Not sure if he delivers to michigan, But i did bring a couple of em back with me. --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Bob Kane wrote: From: Bob Kane Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:41 AM I third Mark and Pete's comments, it was a fun weekend.? Refreshing to see the number Sportsman pilots competing. Rick, does the "Chicken Man" deliver to Michigan? ?Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From: "Atwood, Mark" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 7:33:25 PM Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought First I want to thank Rick Cilles and his family and club members for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this weekend.?? This contest gets better and better each year with better attendance, a focus on good flying, good fun and GREAT food!! ? But during this contest we had some conversations about all the ?how do we grow pattern? discussions and I came to the conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can completely control, is for those that are already IN pattern?to support pattern.? GO TO CONTESTS!!!!!?? Seriously.? ??If we could get the people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local (regional) contests, the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way to promote and encourage others to try it. ? Head count at local contests would go up helping them financially, reducing the amount of judging load on the participants (increasing their enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new sportsman pilots would feel like they attended a contest, not a local gathering.? ? So how do we get all the people on this list to commit to 3 or 4 contests a season??? Or maybe just increase the number they normally go to by 1???? If we all went to 1 more contest the impact would be huge I think. ? Thoughts??? ? PS, A big thank you and congrats to Dave Johnstone our D4 VP for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it with only 1 day of practice.? Great job!! start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00 -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From precisionaero at hotmail.com Mon Aug 31 08:28:37 2009 From: precisionaero at hotmail.com (Michael Cohen) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:28:37 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks In-Reply-To: <277085.65478.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <277085.65478.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I also want to thank Ed and Bill for a great contest. It was good to get back to see the people who got me roped into this whole pattern thing in the first place. > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:38:29 -0700 > From: mups1953 at yahoo.com > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > > Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. > We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. > The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. > We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. > I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _________________________________________________________________ Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you. http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Mon Aug 31 09:23:57 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:23:57 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: <280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> What ever happened to Terry Terrinoire's (sp?) Nats CD that he was going to distribute?? He took hundreds of pictures..... -mark ________________________________ From: "Woodward, Jim (US SSA)" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:11:06 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Hi Guys, ? Is there a link to some photo collections from the 2009 US Nats? Thanks, Jim From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08 AM To: NSRCA DISCUSSION Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks ? ? Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS ? ________________________________ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but?I'm pretty sure?the ?AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record?for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: >From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM >I second Mike.? I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes.??I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern?contest for 52 years.??I think this could be a?record.??? > >Vicente "Vince" Bortone > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mike mueller" >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > >?Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. >?We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. >?The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. >?We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. >?I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP > > >?? ? ? >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From astafford at swtexas.net Mon Aug 31 09:32:11 2009 From: astafford at swtexas.net (Archie Stafford) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:32:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought In-Reply-To: <888fdd980908310851p45ff8b85md8bee3c12fff9ef9@mail.gmail.com> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <9046.13802.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <888fdd980908310851p45ff8b85md8bee3c12fff9ef9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Pete If you and Rick pick a date, i'll be happy to help with a primer. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Bob Wilson wrote: > Hi Mike, > I really wanted to attend the St. Louis event, but family events > wouldn't allow it. Glad to hear you guys had a great time. > Look forward to seeing you all at St. Charles next weekend. > > Bob > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:19 AM, mike mueller > wrote: > Very good points Mark. > I think we need for the exisiting pilots to take someone who has > potential under their wing. If half the existing guys could find 1 > guy then we would be pretty healthy and grow. > Mike > > --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > > > From: Atwood, Mark > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow > Pattern" thought > > To: "General pattern discussion" > > Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I want to thank Rick Cilles and > > his family and club members > > for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this > > weekend. This > > contest gets better and better each year with better > > attendance, a focus on good > > flying, good fun and GREAT food!! > > > > > > > > But during this contest we had some > > conversations about all > > the ?how do we grow pattern? discussions and I > > came to the > > conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can > > completely control, > > is for those that are already IN pattern?to support > > pattern. GO TO > > CONTESTS!!!!! Seriously. If > > we could get the > > people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local > > (regional) contests, > > the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way > > to promote and > > encourage others to try it. > > > > > > > > Head count at local contests would go > > up helping them financially, > > reducing the amount of judging load on the participants > > (increasing their > > enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new > > sportsman pilots > > would feel like they attended a contest, not a local > > gathering. > > > > > > > > So how do we get all the people on > > this list to commit to 3 > > or 4 contests a season?? Or maybe just increase the > > number they normally > > go to by 1?? If we all went to 1 more contest > > the impact would be > > huge I think. > > > > > > > > Thoughts??? > > > > > > > > PS, A big thank you and congrats to > > Dave Johnstone our D4 VP > > for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it > > with only 1 day of > > practice. Great job!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 09:34:23 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:34:23 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern"thought References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D59B757D@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com><9046.13802.qm@web51006.mail.re2.yahoo.com><888fdd980908310851p45ff8b85md8bee3c12fff9ef9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <08066897B758479EBB1011CD095DB8E6@usa.ccu.clearchannel.com> I'll get in touch with Rick....thanks Arch. ----- Original Message ----- From: Archie Stafford To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern"thought Pete If you and Rick pick a date, i'll be happy to help with a primer. Arch Sent from my iPhone On Aug 31, 2009, at 11:51 AM, Bob Wilson wrote: Hi Mike, I really wanted to attend the St. Louis event, but family events wouldn't allow it. Glad to hear you guys had a great time. Look forward to seeing you all at St. Charles next weekend. Bob On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 10:19 AM, mike mueller wrote: Very good points Mark. I think we need for the exisiting pilots to take someone who has potential under their wing. If half the existing guys could find 1 guy then we would be pretty healthy and grow. Mike --- On Sun, 8/30/09, Atwood, Mark wrote: > From: Atwood, Mark > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St. Clairesville Contest and "Grow Pattern" thought > To: "General pattern discussion" > Date: Sunday, August 30, 2009, 6:33 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > First I want to thank Rick Cilles and > his family and club members > for putting on an absolutely fabulous contest this > weekend. This > contest gets better and better each year with better > attendance, a focus on good > flying, good fun and GREAT food!! > > > > But during this contest we had some > conversations about all > the ?how do we grow pattern? discussions and I > came to the > conclusion the one of the EASIEST ways, and one that we can > completely control, > is for those that are already IN pattern?to support > pattern. GO TO > CONTESTS!!!!! Seriously. If > we could get the > people that already FLY pattern to just attend their local > (regional) contests, > the positive impacts would be huge and would go a long way > to promote and > encourage others to try it. > > > > Head count at local contests would go > up helping them financially, > reducing the amount of judging load on the participants > (increasing their > enjoyment and improving the diversity of scoring), and new > sportsman pilots > would feel like they attended a contest, not a local > gathering. > > > > So how do we get all the people on > this list to commit to 3 > or 4 contests a season?? Or maybe just increase the > number they normally > go to by 1?? If we all went to 1 more contest > the impact would be > huge I think. > > > > Thoughts??? > > > > PS, A big thank you and congrats to > Dave Johnstone our D4 VP > for agreeing to fly P-11 at the last minute and flying it > with only 1 day of > practice. Great job!! > > > > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 09:37:01 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:37:01 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> <280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> He has them for sale, I bought a DVD from him. I think he was asking $20. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:23:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? What ever happened to Terry Terrinoire's (sp?) Nats CD that he was going to distribute? He took hundreds of pictures..... -mark ________________________________ From: "Woodward, Jim (US SSA)" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:11:06 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Hi Guys, Is there a link to some photo collections from the 2009 US Nats? Thanks, Jim From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08 AM To: NSRCA DISCUSSION Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS ________________________________ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but I'm pretty sure the AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: >From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM >I second Mike. I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes. I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern contest for 52 years. I think this could be a record. > >Vicente "Vince" Bortone > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mike mueller" >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > > Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. > We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. > The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. > > We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. > I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcairbob1 at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 09:50:21 2009 From: rcairbob1 at comcast.net (Robert G. Satalino) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:50:21 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks In-Reply-To: <277085.65478.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <277085.65478.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <623E5CE9-B1FF-41BC-9550-479F1C2E6B30@comcast.net> What a great time and weather Thanks Bill & ED see ya next year.... Robert Satalino rcairbob1 at comcast.net On Aug 31, 2009, at 8:38 AM, mike mueller wrote: > Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for > having us this weekend. > We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. > The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and > long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the > heat at this contest. > We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got > thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down > on Saturday. > I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the > contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have > hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike > Mueller D5VP > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mklein25 at roadrunner.com Mon Aug 31 09:50:36 2009 From: mklein25 at roadrunner.com (mklein25 at roadrunner.com) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:50:36 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com><280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <848631178-1251741033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-168510746-@bda480.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Bob - is that DVD just pics or video too? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:36:58 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 09:57:02 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:57:02 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <848631178-1251741033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-168510746-@bda480.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com><280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <848631178-1251741033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-168510746-@bda480.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <278709.15074.qm@web32707.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Still photos. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "mklein25 at roadrunner.com" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:51:08 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Bob - is that DVD just pics or video too? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:36:58 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From DaveL322 at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 10:02:47 2009 From: DaveL322 at comcast.net (Dave) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:02:47 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks In-Reply-To: <226938.29819.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1037332338.901021251728042800.JavaMail.root@sz0152a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net> <226938.29819.qm@web80504.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Sayre was 54th annual this year. I'm not sure if it is a record for most held, or most held continuously. Dave _____ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of John Pavlick Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:35 AM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but I'm pretty sure the AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM I second Mike. I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes. I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern contest for 52 years. I think this could be a record. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geobet4 at verizon.net Mon Aug 31 10:16:43 2009 From: geobet4 at verizon.net (GEORGE KENNIE) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:16:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder -> scores References: <19FE2691F6B2485A9E1C7A7F7BE45A7B@telapoint.local> Message-ID: After observing the site and the conditions under which all these world class competitors participated, I can't help but conclude that when all these guys get to Muncie in 2011 that they're all gonna think that they died and went to heaven. ----- Original Message ----- From: Glen Watson To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder -> scores Here ya go Buddy.. http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of BUDDYonRC at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:53 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Is there a site where we can get WC results? Buddy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jim.woodward at baesystems.com Mon Aug 31 10:33:11 2009 From: jim.woodward at baesystems.com (Woodward, Jim (US SSA)) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:33:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <848631178-1251741033-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-168510746-@bda480.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <814i7o$44em7r@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Is there a link on the NSRCA site that I missed for the photos? Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mklein25 at roadrunner.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Bob - is that DVD just pics or video too? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:36:58 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From billglaze at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 31 10:53:56 2009 From: billglaze at bellsouth.net (Bill Glaze) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:53:56 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder -> scores References: <19FE2691F6B2485A9E1C7A7F7BE45A7B@telapoint.local> Message-ID: Georgie: Sure did miss you at the Nats'. I guess we'll have to wait for you to go to the Muncie Worlds' in 2011! Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: GEORGE KENNIE To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder -> scores After observing the site and the conditions under which all these world class competitors participated, I can't help but conclude that when all these guys get to Muncie in 2011 that they're all gonna think that they died and went to heaven. ----- Original Message ----- From: Glen Watson To: 'General pattern discussion' Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder -> scores Here ya go Buddy.. http://www.fpam.pt/WCF3A09/Classifications/scores.php ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of BUDDYonRC at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 8:53 AM To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] FAT Rudder Is there a site where we can get WC results? Buddy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From flyintexan at att.net Mon Aug 31 11:02:00 2009 From: flyintexan at att.net (Mark Hunt) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:02:00 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> <280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <542386.25618.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> How do we get in touch with him.....Terry, can you hear me now?.. -mark ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:36:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? He has them for sale, I bought a DVD from him.? I think he was asking $20. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:23:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? What ever happened to Terry Terrinoire's (sp?) Nats CD that he was going to distribute?? He took hundreds of pictures..... -mark ________________________________ From: "Woodward, Jim (US SSA)" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:11:06 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Hi Guys, ? Is there a link to some photo collections from the 2009 US Nats? Thanks, Jim From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08 AM To: NSRCA DISCUSSION Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks ? ? Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS ? ________________________________ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but?I'm pretty sure?the ?AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record?for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: >From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM >I second Mike.? I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes.??I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern?contest for 52 years.??I think this could be a?record.??? > >Vicente "Vince" Bortone > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mike mueller" >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > >?Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. >?We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. >?The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. >?We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. >?I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP > > >?? ? ? >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 11:19:33 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:19:33 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <814i7o$44em7r@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> References: <814i7o$44em7r@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> Message-ID: <371181.985.qm@web32701.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I think it was announced it at the opening meeting. I'm not sure if the NSRCA is involved or not. I can see if I have contact information for Terry when I get home. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ----- Original Message ---- From: "Woodward, Jim (US SSA)" To: mklein25 at roadrunner.com; General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 2:32:59 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Is there a link on the NSRCA site that I missed for the photos? Jim -----Original Message----- From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of mklein25 at roadrunner.com Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:51 PM To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Bob - is that DVD just pics or video too? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Bob Kane Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:36:58 To: General pattern discussion Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 11:21:11 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:21:11 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Speaking of the 2011 Worlds at Muncie . . . . . Message-ID: <291198.24914.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> . . . . . . do we know the dates yet? Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com From getterflash at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 11:29:48 2009 From: getterflash at yahoo.com (Bob Kane) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:29:48 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <542386.25618.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> <280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <542386.25618.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <406054.37723.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The last email address I saw for Terry amad2terry at juno.com, but it goes back almost 4 years. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:01:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? How do we get in touch with him.....Terry, can you hear me now?.. -mark ________________________________ From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:36:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? He has them for sale, I bought a DVD from him. I think he was asking $20. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:23:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? What ever happened to Terry Terrinoire's (sp?) Nats CD that he was going to distribute? He took hundreds of pictures..... -mark ________________________________ From: "Woodward, Jim (US SSA)" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:11:06 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Hi Guys, Is there a link to some photo collections from the 2009 US Nats? Thanks, Jim From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08 AM To: NSRCA DISCUSSION Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS ________________________________ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but I'm pretty sure the AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: >From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM >I second Mike. I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes. I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern contest for 52 years. I think this could be a record. > >Vicente "Vince" Bortone > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mike mueller" >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > > Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. > We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. > The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. > > We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. > I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP > > > >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shannah1806 at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 11:38:35 2009 From: shannah1806 at gmail.com (steve hannah) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:38:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial In-Reply-To: <620836648-1251579342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-317424896-@bxe1257.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <99B8EFCA36A5724F87FF3C71B431D87216D57EB891@PEVM01.paragon-inc.com> <207868.57003.qm@web112112.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4A997DE8.1010407@optonline.net> <3E1DC905-B2E8-41B6-9F1B-19DA7190A9A3@swtexas.net> <620836648-1251579342-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-317424896-@bxe1257.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: The scoring does seem a bit odd. But it is what it is. That being said, I have a hard time understanding why they drop any rounds at all. Seems to me (in my simple mind) that at the WC you should really count every single flight a competitor puts up. No drops. It seems kind of silly to have such a major contest boil down to two scored flights. Why not just have everyone fly the 2 rounds of F and 2 unknowns and be done with it. You aren't factoring a pilot's consistency over the entire event so what's the point of even having prelims and semis? You only narrow down the field for the Finals, but why bother? You have over 100 pilots grind through the prelims then you have 30 pilots grind through the semis only to throw all that scoring away and have 10 guys fly for the best two out of four rounds. Either count all the rounds or just fly the finals. If you must have a "Finals" then at least count every prelim, semi and final flight. If a guy flames out or makes a mistake on a flight, well then it just wasn't his event. If you did that at this event you would still have the same winner, but the rest of the finishing order would have been quite different. On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 1:56 PM, wrote: > I thought the preliminaries decided the team standings? > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Archie Stafford > > Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:43:33 > To: General pattern discussion > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rcmaster199 at aol.com Mon Aug 31 11:42:13 2009 From: rcmaster199 at aol.com (rcmaster199 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:42:13 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2 Cycle tuned slencer needed In-Reply-To: <138584.43658.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <138584.43658.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CBF88A3BF716AF-774-1A6B@webmail-d085.sysops.aol.com> I am looking for?a 140-160 used but in good condition tuned pipe. Prefer the Hatori but will consider an ES. No grieve, mac or other please ? Thanks ? Contact me off list ? MattK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcosky at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 11:47:30 2009 From: pcosky at comcast.net (Pete Cosky) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:47:30 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com><280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com><6539.76174.qm@web32704.mail.mud.yahoo.com><542386.25618.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <406054.37723.qm@web32703.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have this: amad2terry at stny.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? The last email address I saw for Terry amad2terry at juno.com, but it goes back almost 4 years. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 3:01:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? How do we get in touch with him.....Terry, can you hear me now?.. -mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bob Kane To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 12:36:58 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? He has them for sale, I bought a DVD from him. I think he was asking $20. Bob Kane getterflash at yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:23:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? What ever happened to Terry Terrinoire's (sp?) Nats CD that he was going to distribute? He took hundreds of pictures..... -mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: "Woodward, Jim (US SSA)" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:11:06 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Hi Guys, Is there a link to some photo collections from the 2009 US Nats? Thanks, Jim From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08 AM To: NSRCA DISCUSSION Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but I'm pretty sure the AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks To: "General pattern discussion" Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM I second Mike. I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes. I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern contest for 52 years. I think this could be a record. Vicente "Vince" Bortone ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike mueller" To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. start: 0000-00-00 end: 0000-00-00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From frankjuliei at comcast.net Mon Aug 31 11:51:29 2009 From: frankjuliei at comcast.net (frank) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:51:29 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] BRIO 2 METER -ELECTRIC Message-ID: <15B893EDE1D8489FB45C89D0ADA22870@FMILaptop> Hi Guys; I have a moderately used BRIO that I'm kicking around the idea of converting to electric. If anyone out there has photos with details of that setup, please send them my way( off list). Much Appreciated, Frank Imbriaco -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaqfly at prodigy.net Mon Aug 31 11:56:25 2009 From: jaqfly at prodigy.net (Jim Quinn) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 19:56:25 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? In-Reply-To: <280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <814i7o$44drqh@dmzms99802.na.baesystems.com> <280614.35045.qm@web80708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <305699.91256.qm@web83304.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Terry sold the videos and sent over 400 pictures to each of the people who purchased a DVD. ?Jim Quinn ________________________________ From: Mark Hunt To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 1:23:51 PM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? What ever happened to Terry Terrinoire's (sp?) Nats CD that he was going to distribute?? He took hundreds of pictures..... -mark ________________________________ From: "Woodward, Jim (US SSA)" To: General pattern discussion Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:11:06 AM Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 2009 AMA Nats pictures? Hi Guys, ? Is there a link to some photo collections from the 2009 US Nats? Thanks, Jim From:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Richard Strickland Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:08 AM To: NSRCA DISCUSSION Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] FW: St Louis contest thanks ? ? Kansas City Radio Control with RC Barmstormers completed their 54th in June... RS ? ________________________________ Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 07:35:17 -0700 From: jpavlick at idseng.com To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks That's really cool but?I'm pretty sure?the ?AGS (AeroGuidance Society) in District 1 has the record?for longest running Pattern contest in the country. I think it's been going for 53 or 54 years now. :) ? John Pavlick --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Vicente "Vince" Bortone wrote: >From: Vicente "Vince" Bortone >Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks >To: "General pattern discussion" >Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 10:14 AM >I second Mike.? I was glad to see an increase of pilots in the lower classes.??I just want to add that Phantom Flyers RC Club has been doing the pattern?contest for 52 years.??I think this could be a?record.??? > >Vicente "Vince" Bortone > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "mike mueller" >To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:38:29 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > >?Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers RC club for having us this weekend. >?We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it was a blast. >?The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are sweltering in the heat at this contest. >?We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till darkness shut us down on Saturday. >?I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP > > >?? ? ? >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > >-----Inline Attachment Follows----- >_______________________________________________ >NSRCA-discussion mailing list >NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion ? ________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now. ________________________________ With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos. Click here. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From derekkoopowitz at gmail.com Mon Aug 31 12:07:35 2009 From: derekkoopowitz at gmail.com (Derek Koopowitz) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:07:35 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Speaking of the 2011 Worlds at Muncie . . . . . In-Reply-To: <291198.24914.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <291198.24914.qm@web32705.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3454543c0908311307p3df3cacx835230397dd9d1bc@mail.gmail.com> Tentative schedule is as follows: - Monday July 25th 2011 Processing and Official Practice Day - Tuesday July 26th 2011 Opening Ceremony and Official Practice Day - Wednesday July 27th 2011 Preliminaries Day 1 - Thursday July 28th 2011 Preliminaries Day 2 - Friday July 29th 2011 Preliminaries Day 3 - Saturday July 30th 2011 Preliminaries Day 4 - Sunday July 31st 2011 Reserved for preliminaries if necessary - Monday August 1st 2011 Semi-Finals - Tuesday August 2nd 2011 Finals and Closing Ceremony and Banquet - Wednesday August 3rd 2011 Departure of Contestants On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Bob Kane wrote: > . . . . . . do we know the dates yet? > > Bob Kane > getterflash at yahoo.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mups1953 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 31 12:43:34 2009 From: mups1953 at yahoo.com (mike mueller) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:43:34 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <18781.71061.qm@web51012.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hey Mike. I thought I was good at voices till I met you. I'm terrible compared to you. Next time you guys see Mike have him do his Australin guy and his New York guy. It'll have you in stitches!!!! Mike Fugitaboutit!!!! --- On Mon, 8/31/09, Michael Cohen wrote: > From: Michael Cohen > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > Date: Monday, August 31, 2009, 11:28 AM > > > > #yiv470513872 .hmmessage P > { > margin:0px;padding:0px;} > #yiv470513872 { > font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} > > > > I also want to thank?Ed and Bill for a great > contest.? It was good to get back to see the people who > got me roped into this whole pattern?thing in the first > place.? > ? > > Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 06:38:29 -0700 > > From: mups1953 at yahoo.com > > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] St Louis contest thanks > > > > Thanks to Bill Ahrens, Ed White and the Phantom Flyers > RC club for having us this weekend. > > We had 24 flyers and I think it's safe to say it > was a blast. > > The weather was cold for St Louis and most of us had > jackets and long pants on all day yesterday. Usually we are > sweltering in the heat at this contest. > > We had 12 flyers in Masters and this posed a challenge > but we got thru all the rounds albiet we had to fly till > darkness shut us down on Saturday. > > I'm encouraged by the decent attendances that we > have seen at the contests this year. I really expected the > poor economy would have hit us hard but there doesn't > seem to be much of an effect. Mike Mueller D5VP > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion > > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback > for you. Try > Bing now. > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion From THERUPMAN at aol.com Mon Aug 31 13:54:43 2009 From: THERUPMAN at aol.com (THERUPMAN at aol.com) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 21:54:43 -0000 Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] WC Complete...Standing Posted Unofficial Message-ID: That's why we have 3 strikes. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10