[NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
J N Hiller
jnhiller at earthlink.net
Tue Apr 28 06:36:38 AKDT 2009
Excuse me for butting in but I'm wondering if rudder cables are being used
that tighten in the center loading the servo trying to hold center. If so
disconnect one and recheck idle current.
Jim Hiller
-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed Alt
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 9:29 PM
To: colin chariandy; General pattern discussion; glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
The idle current of 0.16A is about as high as your avwerage current for
model in flight should be. Something is binding.
----- Original Message -----
From: colin chariandy <mailto:cchariandy at yahoo.ca>
To: General pattern discussion <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> ;
glmiller3 at suddenlink.net <mailto:glmiller3 at suddenlink.net> ; Ed Alt
<mailto:ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
Just tried the same using the regulator from my back-up (same except not
switched) and a new throttle servo.
Throttle servo amps increased to 0.35A max.
Although the package was labelled 6.0V the output is 5.7V and min output was
5.5V.
After a minute of servo wagging it was hotter than the original.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, colin chariandy < cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<mailto:cchariandy at yahoo.ca> > wrote:
From: colin chariandy < cchariandy at yahoo.ca <mailto:cchariandy at yahoo.ca> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>,
glmiller3 at suddenlink.net, "Ed Alt" <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 9:22 PM
Ok, although this is a 1 year old airplane with 150 flights I checked the
current draw after the regulator with all servos energized and the engine
off.
I used a "watts up" meter that logs peaks (but I'm not sure what the
sampling fequency is).
Idle current - 0.16A.
Throttle servo movement max - 0.25A (doesnt seem like a problem but it's a
little more noisy than a new one).
All other servos - 0.22-0.24 A max.
Moving all servos together rapidly - 1.72A max.
Regulator output min - 5.82V
I did this (moved all the servos rapidly for 1 min) and checked the little
heat sink at the end of the regulator chip...quite warm, almost hot.
I may try this again with the engine running and compare the results.
Colin.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Ed Alt <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>, "colin
chariandy " <cchariandy at yahoo.ca>, glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 6:24 PM
This is easy to resolve. Nothing high tech is needed. One by one, move
your controls and carefully watch to see if it looks like the any of them
are straining at the end of their maximum travel. Check the throttle in
particular. I have seen digital servo cases melt from having the throw set
up further than the linkage will allow. If that's not it, disconnect the
linkages at servo and work the control surface by hand. If it does not move
very freely, fix it. If you don't find the problem there, work the servos
around in a 10 minute mock flight on the ground, except exaggerate the
movements considerably since there will be no air load and engine vibration
to add to the load. Listen to each servo. If it sounds like it's having a
problem, remove it and check it out on the bench. If there's nothing
obviously wrong by the sound of things, then feel the servo cases to see if
any of them are getting warm, or even try smelling them for that
characteristic smell that hot electronics tend to have. If there is a
regulator that got so hot as to discolor it, and there is nothing at all
wrong with the linkages or control surfaces, then this ought to find the
culprit.
Ed
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Cotton " < davercotton at hotmail.com
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=davercotton@hotmail.com> >
To: "colin chariandy " < cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> >; <
nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.o
rg> >; < glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net> >
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
You will need a very good meter to read the current, because a fully loaded
digital setup takes the current in short spikes and most meters do not have
a good enough frequency response. I have tried using a very good quality HP
meter with over 20k frequency response and concluded it's not accurate, but
it does give you a ball park number and will indicate if you have a serious
problem. I have monitored my receiver voltage using a FDR data recorder and
using two nimh batteries pack in parallel see at least one volt drop spikes
at the receiver when the servos are heavily loaded. I run 2 20amp schottky
diode connected packs in parallel for safety. You can be sure that these
spikes are 5amps or more. I placed a Castel reg in the circuit and it
drops the spikes to a few hundred millivolts
The average current draw is around 250 mA for 2 masters sequences.
Hope this helps. Incidentally the regulator does not get hot.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message-----
From: colin chariandy < cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> >
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:40:21
To: < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.o
rg> >; < glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
Yes.
I can't find by physical inspection any "wacked out servos" or other issues
that might cause increased current load on the regulator. So....I'm trying
to find the typical (or average) current that should be seen at any moment
(instant) on a meter in-line with the regulator. Then I'll run my set-up and
compare. If I'm in the ball park (less than 1A based on a couple of inputs
so far) then the problem is not related to "wacked out" servos, binding etc.
Colin
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Ed Alt < ed_alt at hotmail.com
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com> > wrote:
From: Ed Alt < ed_alt at hotmail.com
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ed_alt@hotmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.o
rg> , glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net>
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 3:25 PM
Average current is not the same as instantaneous current, unless the only
current being drawn was just for that single instant in time. Anyway, I will
repeat, with an added quailifer, for the sake of understanding for where to
look to help you solve the problem:
If you are using a JACCIO, Tech-Aero, or whatever regulator in a pattern
setup, even with a YS CDI on a shared output, and if you find that you need
a heat sink, then:
Something Else Is Wrong. Check your setup for binding linkages, stiff
hinges, whacked out servos, whatever.
Seriously, check your setup, OK? Just trying to help here.
Regards
Ed
----------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:32:54 -0700
From: cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca>
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.o
rg> ; glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
Actually, if you consumed 200mAhr in 0.25hrs, then your average
(instantaneous) current was 800mA.
Colin.
--- On Mon, 4/27/09, glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net> <
glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net> >
wrote:
From: glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net> <
glmiller3 at suddenlink.net
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=glmiller3@suddenlink.net> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: "General pattern discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.o
rg> >
Cc: "colin chariandy" < cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> >
Received: Monday, April 27, 2009, 12:34 PM
Colin,
I'm running a different ignition system, but total consumption radio and
ignition) for an entire 15 minute flight is about 200 mah..200 X4 = 800
milliamps for an hour= 0.8 amps per hour So the instantaneous current
shouldn't be much.
G
---- colin chariandy < cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> <
http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> > wrote:
=============
Does anyone know what the current consumption should be at idle/run-up for a
typical YS170/Hyde/all digital servos installation?
I'll stick a Watt's Up meter in there to see how much I'm pulling after the
regulator.
Jim, what's the current limit for continuous operation and spike/inrush for
your regulator?
Colin.
--- On Sun, 4/26/09, James Oddino < joddino at socal.rr.com
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com> <
http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com> > wrote:
From: James Oddino < joddino at socal.rr.com
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com> <
http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=joddino@socal.rr.com> >
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] JR DSM glitch - trouble-shooting.
To: cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> <
http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> , "General
discussion" < nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.o
rg> <
http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nsrca-discussion@lists.nsrca.or
g> >
Received: Sunday, April 26, 2009, 4:00 PM
I don't believe a bad battery could cause the engine to rev up unless your
battery failsafe isn't set properly. Make sure it is.
The first thing I would look at is the possibility that the throttle servo
is stalled at low speed. That could be pulling the battery/voltage regulator
voltage down and it could recover after you started to throttle up and
removed the heavy load.
Finally I would run a one amp discharge test on the battery after it is
fully charged to see if the battery is near its original capacity. The best
way to do this is to plot the voltage vs. time taking readings every 5 to 10
minutes.
Hope this helps. Let us know what you find.
Jim
On Apr 25, 2009, at 4:30 PM, cchariandy at yahoo.ca
<http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> <
http://ca.mc313.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=cchariandy@yahoo.ca> wrote:
I had a close call today with my R921 Rx in an Integral.
I noticed on taxi out that the engine rev'd up and quickly back down without
any command. At first I thought I must have bumped the stick by accident.
Then just before take-off there was no responce from the throttle for a
second or two then it was back. I thought the 170 may have loaded up a
little and didnt respond. It did that one more time before I aborted the
flight. However, I could'nt reproduce the problem in the pits.
Before powering down, I checked for holds or fades on the data logger - nil.
Battery voltage droped from 8.2V to 7.8V and 7.6 under 1A load. When I
re-charged it took 350mA and I was only on for 3-4 mins.
Now...I did accidentally run the battery down to like 5V during winter but
it did eventually recharge.
I'm using a Jaccio perfect switch/6V regulator, Jaccio 2000mAHr (1 season
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