[NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day

Thu Jul 10 17:57:13 AKDT 2008

Again I applaud the need to nominate you to the judging committee.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>; 
<johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day

> What if 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 are all perfect but 1 was rushed?
> Both are the extreme examples and probably need to be thrown out or we'll 
> never get anywhere.
>
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <mjfrederick at cox.net>
>
> Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:27:12
> To: <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com>; General pattern 
> discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>
>
> The problem with using this type of judging is: what if radii 2,4,6,8 are 
> all the same and 1,3,5,7 are all the same... According to the current 
> rule, only half of the radii deserved a downgrade, but using the previous 
> radius to judge the current radius would lead to every radius but the 
> first being downgraded. If you allow the first to set the standard, the 
> person receives the same score as the current rule intends for them to 
> receive without the ambiguity of the judging criteria.
>
> Matt
>
> ---- John Fuqua <johnfuqua at embarqmail.com> wrote:
>>  the RCA Board liked Mark's idea here but it came up to late in the cycle 
>> to
>> make any adjustments.  Yes the first radii is used to judge the second, 
>> but
>> the second then becomes the standard for the third and so on.  From a 
>> judges
>> point of view I do not know how it could get any clearer or easier to
>> implement.  If all 8 are different then the pilot deserves the 
>> appropriate
>> score.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
>> atwoodm at paragon-inc.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:59 PM
>> To: General pattern discussion
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>
>> I have always felt that the best way to judge this would be to simply
>> downgrade any CHANGE in radius.  Thus you are always simply comparing the
>> last radius to the current one.   If you work through it, it scores 
>> pretty
>> well.
>>
>> The worst case example would be in an eight where you vary every other
>> radius from large to small (which actually happens a lot given corner on 
>> tbe
>> top and bottom).
>>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
>>
>> Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 20:47:38
>> To: General pattern discussion<nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>>
>>
>> I would argue against that there "has never been a rule (in AMA) that
>> the 1st radii is the standard for the maneuver".
>>
>> I've been judging for many years and I challenge anyone to be able to
>> sort through all the different radii in a Square Horizontal Eight,
>> decide what the "standard' radius was, how much the various radii
>> differed from it, assign downgrades and write a score on the
>> scoresheet before the airplane was in the next maneuver.
>>
>> Regards also,
>>
>> Ron Van Putte
>>
>> On Jul 9, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Dave wrote:
>>
>> > "Since, in the latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we
>> > need to
>> > train judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard"
>> >
>> > I sincerely hope prior training was not contrary to the above?  It
>> > has never
>> > been a rule (in AMA) that the 1st radii is the standard for the
>> > maneuver -
>> > and it never should be!!  When 7 radii in a square 8 are the same,
>> > and 1 is
>> > different - it should be painfully obvious which radii is to be
>> > downgraded.
>> > FAI has screwed up making the 1st radii the standard for the
>> > maneuver - no
>> > need for AMA to blindly follow that error (or any others - ie, AMA
>> > rules
>> > should never include process or procedure to automatically adopt
>> > anything
>> > from FAI - AMA can always choose to copy or follow FAI).
>> >
>> > Noting every single error and element in complex maneuvers is not
>> > easy (nor
>> > is flying them easy).  And just like every pilot is not capable of
>> > every
>> > maneuver, not every judge is going to catch all errors all the
>> > time.  This
>> > is a competitive event, and for the both the pilot and the just,
>> > there is
>> > only 1 that is the best.  And in both cases, the "best" is probably
>> > the one
>> > with the "best" combination of talent, hardwork, practice, and
>> > training.  I
>> > see no need to either dumb down the maneuvers or dumb down the judging
>> > criteria to blur the distinction between the best and 2nd best -
>> > seems quite
>> > contrary to the goal in pattern of perfect maneuvers.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Dave Lockhart
>> > DaveL322 at comcast.net
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron
>> > Van Putte
>> > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 10:36 AM
>> > To: General pattern discussion
>> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>> >
>> > I wonder how many judges are able to do all those steps in
>> > determining and recording a score before the next maneuver starts.
>> > Remember, many of these judges are the ones who can't write down a
>> > score without looking away from the airplane and looking down at the
>> > scoresheet.
>> >
>> > Ron VP
>> >
>> > On Jul 9, 2008, at 9:31 AM, Joe Dunnaway wrote:
>> >
>> >> It's nothing different than what we have been doing.
>> >>
>> >> Joe Dunnaway
>> >>
>> >> Ron Van Putte wrote:
>> >>> Yeah, lets quit talking about that.  Plus, let's not talk about
>> >>> spins and snaps.  Let's talk about how to judge the eight
>> >>> different radii in the Square Horizontal Eight.  Since, in the
>> >>> latest vote on rule changes, RCA-09-3 failed, we need to train
>> >>> judges that 1. The first radius does not set the standard,   2.
>> >>> They have to decide what radius represents most of the radii in
>> >>> the maneuver,  3.  They must determine how each radius deviates
>> >>> from this standard and assign a downgrade,  4.  They then must add
>> >>> up all the downgrades and subtract the sum of the downgrades from
>> >>> 10 and 5.  They must write the score down on the scoresheet before
>> >>> the airplane enters the next maneuver.  Nothing to it; it just
>> >>> takes a little training.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ron VP
>> >>>
>> >>> On Jul 8, 2008, at 10:41 PM, Wayne Galligan wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Now we are back to the driveway, parkway thing huh?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> WG
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: Keith Hoard
>> >>>> To: General pattern discussion
>> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 3:50 AM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Then I stopped in the middle of the road and went outside began
>> >>>> yelling at people to 'get the hell out of my driveway!!!' . . ."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Wayne Galligan
>> >>>> <wgalligan at att.net> wrote:
>> >>>> Actually Steven Wright went home one night and put the key in the
>> >>>> door to the house to open it and it started.... so he drove it
>> >>>> around the block.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> WG
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>> From: Tim Taylor
>> >>>> To: General pattern discussion
>> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 4:15 PM
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Steven Wright not Carlin
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net> wrote:
>> >>>> From: Ron Van Putte <vanputte at cox.net>
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Off topic: independence day
>> >>>> To: "General pattern discussion" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> >>>> Date: Monday, July 7, 2008, 3:08 PM
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yeah, but as George Carlin once asked, "Why do we drive on the
>> >>>> parkway and park on the driveway?" Ron VP On Jul 7, 2008, at
>> >>>> 12:54 PM, Anthony Abdullah wrote: > Particularly considering a
>> >>>> bra holds a pair of... Well, you know > what I am getting at. > >
>> >>>> Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com> wrote: > I'm still waiting for
>> >>>> them to burn pantys. > > BTW, how come is it a "pair of pantys"
>> >>>> but only "one bra"??? > > Bob R > > --- On Mon, 7/7/08, Del
>> >>>> <drykert2 at rochester.rr.com> wrote: > Hmmm `~ brings back memories
>> >>>> when women insisted on burning their > bra's... ~~ I never
>> >>>> complained~~ just raised my eyelids for closer > observation..
>> >>>> <g> > > Del > > ps ~~ realize it may be an age related comment ..
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-
>> >>>> discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >
>> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion >
>> >>>> _______________________________________________ > NSRCA-
>> >>>> discussion mailing list > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org >
>> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >>>> _______________________________________________ NSRCA-discussion
>> >>>> mailing list NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org http://
>> >>>> lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -- 
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Keith Hoard
>> >>>> Collierville, TN
>> >>>> khoard at gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 