[NSRCA-discussion] Weather Vane

[Stuart Chale]

You're right Ron, that was more like 5 cents worth :-)

 

I do not think the crab or weather-vaning that I am seeing in a cross wind
is my inputs.  Heck most of the time my rudder inputs are wrong anyway :-)
Obviously we don't know how faithful wind effects are in simulators but I
just played with a strong crosswind in Aerofly and the after establishing a
straight vertical the plane would crab into the wind.  Left going one way
and right going the other.  I think this is duplicating what I see when
flying the real toys.  I guess we will all have to experiment with the next
windy day.

 

Stu

 

  _____  

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
ronlock at comcast.net
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 12:08 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List; NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Weather Vane

 

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth, but maybe it turned into too much.
Ya been warned <G>.

 

There is a strong, almost overwhelming, visual perception that airplanes
weathervane into the wind as seen by an observer on the ground.   

 

If the airplane is partly connected to the ground (as in takeoff or landing
roll) it will likely weathervane into the wind.   (Like a real weathervane
on the barn).   Putting more side area behind the CG probably increases the
weathervane effect.

 

But once airborne, an airplane no longer feels wind on side of the airplane
and does not weathervane in the sense that the weathervane on the barn does.
Nor does the hot air balloon mentioned in an earlier post.

 

Just after take off, we likely see the nose is pointed some amount into the
wind.  This visual perception is true. But is it proof of weathervaning?  It
probably weathervaned into the wind during take off roll. Once airborne the
weathervane is now what we call a crab angle into the wind.

 

We all know stall turns are easier to do "into the wind".  Is it because
they weathervane?    On the upline to a stall turn in a cross wind, does the
pilot wind correct the airplanes track?   Most of us do, consciously or not.
If we are having any success at all with the wind correction, the fuselage
is "leaning" into the wind a bit   It's certainly easier to get a stall turn
by continuing into the established lean, than it is to go against the lean
to the downwind direction.  

 

Pilots try to make heading adjustments to hold track, or hold distance in
lines and maneuvers.  Those adjustments (crab angles) can appear to be a
result of weathervaning, but are often pilot inputs, consciously or not.

 

Related things to consider-   

 

Airplanes do get "hit" in the side, top and bottom when in turbulent wind,
and wind shear situations.  We fly low, and are often in turbulence.  There
may be short, nearly random, turbulent air effects that result in a weather
vane type effect.

 

A free flight glider does not weather vane into the wind.  The glider may
fly in circles, but it will drift downwind at the overall average of the
wind speed.   No matter how much side area is put behind the CG, it will not
find and maintain a heading into the wind.

 

Given flight in no wind situation, a string tied on nose of an airplane
blows exactly backwards and parallel to the fuselage.  (unless the airplane
is out of rig, or has control surface inputs).   If flown in a cross wind
direction, the airplanes track across the ground changes, but the string
stays straight.   (not counting any effect of propeller induced spiral
airflow)

 

The old full scale stories about loosing airspeed and stalling while doing a
"downwind turn" fit into this discussion to a degree.  Does wind hit the
tail of an airplane as it turns downwind thereby reducing airspeed?   In the
"old" days, pilots often flew low and partly judged airplane speed by visual
observation of ground speed.  (similiar to our situation of observing from
the ground)   This could lead to the perception of plenty of ground speed
being plenty

 

Sorting out the visual perception of the "obvious" weather vane effect is
tough.  Lots of things complicate the observation - pilot inputs,
turbulence, paralax, and more.  

 

IMHO, bottom line, it's not wind hitting side of airplane, no matter how
much side area is behind the CG.

 

Later, Ron

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summary, I agree that as observers on the ground, we "see" effects that
appear to be weathervaning.  But the "real" cause

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