[NSRCA-discussion] Judges' Positioning, Zero Lines, and Box Definition

Sun May 13 09:24:41 AKDT 2007

<<<<<The further back the judges are... the more ADDED SPACE they will perceive as being inside the 60 deg box. >>>>>

This condition will also be exacerbated by picking a distant point "1/2 mile away".  The error can be mitigated by selecting a point of reference about 200 meters away as there is no way the pilot should be flying beyond this distance anyway. A distance out directly beneath the flight path of the model (if that were possible to monitor on a continuum) will achieve coresponcence between the judge's and the pilots's perspective.
G.

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Fred Huber 
  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
  Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 3:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Judges' Positioning, Zero Lines,and Box Definition

  The judges being behind the pilot... if the model is past 60 deg to the judge, its past 60 deg to the pilot. (except potentially one edge of the box if the judge is off to the opposite side...)

  The further back the judges are... the more ADDED SPACE they will perceive as being inside the 60 deg box.  The judges are tasked with locating the box limits in relation to the pilot... not some poles that are not at the 175 meter maximum box limit line.  

  If the poles are just 40 feet from the pilot, they are only good as references for the pilot, not the judges. (even if the judges are under 5 ft from the pilot)  If the judge wants to try to use them as reference... he has to allow for the plane to appear to have passed the pole by however many wingspans he is behind the pilot. (which errs slightly in favor of the pilot)

  If you attend a judge's training seminar... there are guidelines about judge positioning.  The judge positioning is supposed to be such that thier perspective will be similar to the perspective of the pilot.  The judge being 15 to 20 ft back isn't unreasonable as its a small fracton (appx 1/35 to 1/40) of the average distance from pilot to airplane.  The difference in "parallax" between what the pilot sees and what the judge sees will be very small. (with the judge having LESS parallax if he's straight behind the pilot)

  The judge's chair position DOES NOT define the box limits.  The pilot position (which is assigned and marked) DOES.  All of the field markings are relative to the pilot position(s).

  The CD can assign the safety/zero line as the runway edge if desired...  Setting it behind the pilots is something I would not ever recommend.  Since the pilots are typically stationed fairly close to the runway, having the edge close to the pilot be the safety line is usually reasonable.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Matthew Frederick 
    To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
    Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2007 1:29 PM
    Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Judges' Positioning, Zero Lines,and Box Definition

    OK, this forum has been too quiet lately, so let's get some controversy going! This comment/question is mainly directed to Don Ramsey, but I would appreciate everyone's opinion. The good thing is, Don was at the contest where what I'm about to describe happened. What I'm talking about here is the positioning of judges behind the pilot. Under most circumstances the judges are positioned maybe 3-5 feet behind the pilot with each judge's seat placed on (or very close to) one of the 60-degree lines. Now, at a contest I attended last week the judges apparently decided it was too hot out there on the actual flight line, and they moved their chairs about 15-20 feet behind the pilot in the shade of the shed at this particular field. My question is, should this be something that is allowed since the judges' chairs define the zero line of the flight line (and moving it back this far puts spectators in danger), and also because it gives the judges an even more skewed view of the 60-degree lines than they already have? I bring this up partly because of what Don wrote in this month's K-Factor, but also because I was gigged for busting the box by these "displaced" (in Louisiana we call them refugees) judges when in fact, I knew I was close to the edge, but since I was actually standing on the line, I knew I didn't bust it. As a pilot I should not have to adjust the size of the box that I'm permitted to fly in just so the judges can be more comfortable (granted, comfort in the heat and humidity of Louisiana is relative). I didn't bring it up at the contest because by the time it bit me, it was too late to complain. In the future, however, I think there need to be rules regarding the positioning of judges if there aren't already, and if there are rules, let's bring them to light and enforce them, and you can bet I'll refuse to fly before judges that are that far behind me. Then again, I also think the close edge of the runway should be the zero line on maneuvers, not the judges' chairs. I did a little (ok, a lot) of math to figure out how much box a pilot would be missing out on with the judges postitioned 15 feet behind him. Using approximated numbers from the contest in question I calculated that if the poles are 40 feet out from the pilot, and the judges are 15 feet behind the pilot, the box size at 150 meters (which is 259.81m) based on the judges' point of view is reduced by 232.61 feet (70.9 m), or 25.2%! This would have been even greater if the poles were closer in or the judges were further back.

    Matt

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