[NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
Ken Thompson
mrandmrst at comcast.net
Tue Jun 26 07:46:04 AKDT 2007
Wow...I thought this was over...
----- Original Message -----
From: "W. Hinkle" <whinkle1024 at msn.com>
To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
> Dave is a good pilot but character being beyond reproach is a bit of a
> stretch. Ask John Glizellis about when Dave shot him down and haggled over
> the price. This was to replace a brand new model with less than 30 flights
> on it at the NATS. The incident was at the NATS during practice at the AMA
> field. We all make mistakes, but to penny pinch the guy that just cost his
> new model part way through the Nationals. JR had to step in and forced the
> hand. If it had not been for Dave the sponsorship threat Dave would still
> be
> argueing the price of a new built model. Dave replaced it after some
> debate
> with JR. This is not character beyond reproach? Dave may be a good guy
> just
> don't be on the same freq. He'll tell how poor your model is built and its
> not worth the price of a professional built kit.
>
> I'll agree that both parties in this fight are not angels. I'm not a fan
> or
> Eric's but my question to this forum
>
> Why is the NSRCA involved at all?
>
> Doesn't the NSRCA have better things to do with its time and energy than
> lynching a judge at the request of a couple pilots that have character
> beyond reproach?
>
> I feel this is another sign of the NSRCA just wasting resources, time and
> money in the name of being the Savior of pattern flying. Beware people
> beware. Come on. Getting two of Dave's best buddies in D1 to write a
> program
> to damn a person that they and David hate with a passion. To me is smells
> like old shellfish. These were the same judges who claimed in the past the
> judge that gave the zero was the one that got it right.
>
> The NSRCA has no business in this arena. I find it appalling the Board
> even
> had this on the agenda. I also find it appalling that a ruling was made,
> then Eric was notified of the charges and the conviction. As Eric stated,
> no
> statistics can determine what the judge actually saw or better yet what
> the
> pilot actually flew. So Eric's scores were below the average for a given
> pilot. Maybe the pilot flew below average in Eric's eyes. This is why the
> NATS uses more than one judge. This is a fact of life. This looks very one
> sided by the NSRCA.
>
> The NSRCA has no place in this squabble.
>
>
>>From: "John Pavlick" <jpavlick at idseng.com>
>>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 01:27:00 -0400
>>
>>Len,
>> All of the people involved were from D1 - I thought the good ol' boys
>>were in D2 and D3! <LOL>
>>
>>John Pavlick
>>http://www.idseng.com
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Leonard Rudy
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:47 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>
>>
>> John,
>>
>> The conflict may have blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict, but
>> in
>>the NHL
>> those "with the power" hear both sides and let each side present their
>>case before
>> the powers to be assign penalties. After the penalties are imposed,
>> the
>>player or
>> individual still has the right to appeal the decision.
>> You say Eric should take whatever the powers to be want and don't
>>make any
>> noise or waves.
>> This is a clear message to others who will be judging at meets in
>>the future. DO NOT GIVE THE GOOD OLD BOYS GROUP any low or bad scores or
>>you may be on the receiving end of some form of penalty that you will not
>>like.
>>
>> Len Rudy
>> "Life is easier if you learn to plow around the stumps" or in other
>>words, do not
>> hand out low scores to the Good Old Boys or you will pay dearly for it
>>one way or
>> another.
>>
>> Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
>> The penalty does not appear appropriate...
>>
>> It also sounds like it was not applied in a manner consistant with
>> the
>>rules system.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: John Ferrell
>> To: Don Ramsey ; NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 8:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>
>>
>> I have the good fortune to not be involved in this dispute. I am
>>only aware of the conflict.
>>
>> Not being very good at staying out of arguments, I offer the
>>following observations:
>> A heated difference of opinions occurred.
>> Every one involved is considered a valuable asset to the Pattern
>>Game.
>> Things were said that should not have been said.
>> Every one thinks they are right.
>> There was probably at least one (or may be several) bad call(s) by
>>some one.
>>
>> The conflict blossomed like a Hockey Game Conflict and the net
>>result was those with the power and responsibility treated it like a
>>Hockey
>>Game Conflict! A serious "time out" was assigned to the individual at the
>>focal point of the conflict. It was their duty to put the problem on ice.
>>
>> The expectations of the rest of us who value the game and its
>>players is that right or wrong the referee's call must be honored. The
>>referee has the power to impose further penalties if the individual
>>continues to make waves. Right or wrong, this is the was disputes are
>>handled in the world of competition.
>>
>> If the individual was drawn into the conflict by goading it is
>> still
>>he who gets the penalty.
>>
>> Conflict resolution is not something that is natural to the human
>>condition. Conflict is.
>>
>> Eric needs to take the penalty and get on with things.Those in
>> power
>>need to accept that the penalty has been applied and to continue the game.
>>
>> WE ALL need to be aware that we either play nice or get sent to the
>>showers!
>>
>> Another factor to consider is that the higher profile one achieves
>>in this sport the greater the need to hold that individual to higher
>>standards.
>> Eric is certainly a "high profile" player.
>>
>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>> "Life is easier if you learn to plow
>> around the stumps"
>> http://DixieNC.US
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Don Ramsey
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2007 7:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Chapter-5 Going too far.
>>
>>
>> I would like to thank Eric for the nice complement in his
>> comment,
>>"To circumvent this conflict of interest problem and to keep the Nationals
>>above reproach, I steeped out of line and asked Don Ramsey to
>>independently
>>choose the judges, Dave could not refuse this method, but I will tell you
>>that he got extremely mad at me for doing it."
>>
>> I must respond that for good or bad I've been choosing the finals
>>judges for many years. I started that process when Jeff Hill was Event
>>Director. It must also be stated that I've never had any pressure of any
>>kind from contest management regarding who I choose to judge. I try to
>>pick the best candidates and rotate those so no single judge can influence
>>the outcome extradionarly.
>>
>> Don
>>
>>
>>
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