[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits

[Mark Atwood]

I¹m still waiting for my rule proposal to Nascar to be approved so I can run
my Chrysler Minivan and be competitive.

Sorry...I don¹t mean to be a smart a$$.  But this thread has become
ridiculous.  Chip, Quique, Jason, Andrew, Troy, Dave, Sean...and two dozen
more (heck, a lot more than 2 dozen but I¹m trying to be optimistic!) can
kick my butt with glow or electric.  Quique and Jason have gone back to
glow, others are converting to electric...blah blah blah.  One is NOT more
competitive than the other at the moment.  As Verne stated...he¹s flying
electric because he LIKES electric.  I fly pattern because I LIKE pattern.
I¹m not asking them to change the rules so I can fly my quickee 500 plane
cause it¹s cheaper (I can fly it...but I need rule changes to be competitive
with it :) ).

I¹m ALLLL for cheaper.  I¹m buying and building Black Magic¹s this winter
because I have no desire to lay out $3000 for an Oxai.  And I¹m pretty sure
that any of the above listed flyers will beat me in FAI flying MY
plane...probably without even a test flight.

Come on Ron...BUY a victory???  At what level?  Bob Fortino won Intermediate
flying a 60 size boxer amidst a myriad of 2m high tech birds.  He out flew
them.  Is that the norm?  Of course not.   But it says that money didn¹t buy
the victory (unless in this case it was money spent on fuel...)

Masters is easier to fly with more power then less.  So am I buying a
victory to afford a more expensive and more powerful glow engine?  Of
course...I¹m buying a better chance of victory.  I¹m afraid that¹s part of
competition and capitalism.  Competitors want the best...the best by
definition is in demand and therefore costs more.  Maybe we need a
³stock-plane² class...That could actually be fun!  But that¹s now what we
have.

This would be different  if someone was required to fly electric, but this
one is simple.  Electric is expensive right now period.  With or without a
weight change.  If you¹re trying to fly pattern on a budget, you can¹t even
be part of this discussion in my opinion.  All the great budget stuff is
glow.  Great used planes, great used motors, etc.  (BTW I have a great YS
1.40L priced right for a good home!).  I¹m flying a used Brio, on a used YS,
with my radio equipment and I feel pretty competitive at least regionally
(Troy may feel otherwise..lol).

It seems disingenuous to me to argue in favor of a rule change that will
have all kinds of negative ramifications and claim ³cost² as a
factor...claiming that we¹re trying to save hundreds of dollars on small
stuff (extra light axels, or tires, or spinners, etc ...I know this is a
reality) when it¹s compared to spending THOUSANDS on even the heavy
batteries, speed controllers, chargers, transformers, generators, balancers,
etc that are required to fly electric at ANY weight and ANY level.    ³I¹m
ok spending a LOT more than glow...just not a lot a lot more.²  Come on...

Last thought...  Directly to Ron and John...  Regarding any proposal on
this, given that this is clearly a rapidly changing ³animal² and likely ANY
rule would be outdated quickly, can I suggest that any rule proposal be put
forth with a limited duration time frame so that it¹s clear it¹s intended to
solve what is clearly a short term issue??  I.e. For the 2008 season, or
2008-2009.  Something like that.  That would have at least the virtue of not
guaranteeing a complete shift in what and how we currently fly without
having to revisit this.

-M 


On 6/25/07 6:57 PM, "vicenterc at comcast.net" <vicenterc at comcast.net> wrote:

> I agree with Dan,  leave it alone.  I have a question:  What will happen with
> a Masters pilot that wants to switch to F3A?  Using the current rules he can
> do it because the rule is 5 Kg for both AMA and FAI-F3A.  If we increase AMA
> alone he won't be able to use his equipment to fly F3A.
>  
> --
> Vicente "Vince" Bortone
>  
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: "Dan" <warrior523 at mchsi.com>
>>  
>>> 
>>> "After reading all the responses on this issue, John Fuqua has decided to
>>> amend his draft rule change proposal to require that electric-powered
>>> airplanes be weighed with battery, but be given 4 oz relief from the 5 KG
>>> (11 lb) maximum weight .  His logic is that, even the Intermediate/Advanced
>>> glow-powered airplanes use about 10 oz of fuel in a flight and 10 oz of fuel
>>> weighs about 8 oz.  So, halfway through the flight, a glow-powered airplane
>>> in the Intermediate/Advanced class, which barely makes the weight limit, is
>>> likely to weigh about 11 lb 4 oz.   The guys in the Master class would still
>>> be at a disadvantage, but a 4 oz relief is still better than a stick in the
>>> eye." 
>>> 
>>> Ron Van Putte
>>> 
>>>  
>>> I have really wanted to stay out of this thread but after reading the above
>>> posting, I could no longer bite my tongue. There is "no" logic in the so
>>> called amended draft rule change.  This would be a major rule change, that
>>> by concensus, would have a very good chance of having a huge negative impact
>>> on or sport and this so called logic is based on conjecture and on entry
>>> level planes that might be on the heavy side.  Fly electric, fly glow, fly
>>> rubber power but leave the weight and size rules alone.  The balance in the
>>> cost and the performance of the planes in our sport is very good but it
>>> could very easily be lost and to do so unnecessarily would be a tragic
>>> mistake.  Electric is viiable now and we are told it will get even more so
>>> as time passes, fine.  If those among us want to do the work and spend the
>>> dollars to use electrics (when other options are available) then so be it.
>>> They can meet the rules now so ! there i s no valid reason for change at
>>> this time.  I wanted to go electric in the worst way, awhile back, I did the
>>> math and it was very apparant, with the amount of flying that I do, that
>>> electric flight was way of of my league.  As the prices come down (not
>>> enough) I will continue to evaluate them.  However if the cost was not a
>>> factor I am sure I could meet the requirements of the rules just as many
>>> others have done to date, and it would would never enter my mind ask for a
>>> rule change to be passed if I couldn't do it or just to make it easier for
>>> one power source to be used.
>>>  
>>> Dan Curtis   
>>>  
>>> Dan Curtis
> 
> 
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