[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits

Fri Jun 22 22:42:17 AKDT 2007

Well from where I sit personally....there isn't one! Just watching others go through this curve. 

-M

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: rcmaster199 at aol.com 
  To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
  Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits

Geez, whatever happened to competitors competing on the model building side too?? There's lot's of places to shave weight. Of corse, if you buy your next world beater, you are at someone else's mercy since, in theory anyway, the other guy shaved the weight for you.

Where's the problem??

MattK

On 6/22/07 6:11 PM, "Mike Hester" <kerlock at comcast.net> wrote:

> LOL
> 
> Seriously that's real. I know that some people say they don't have any
> problems with speed/wind, but my eyes tell me different. I recently watched
> an avid electric competitor smoke 2 sets of packs, back to back, and as a
> result will not compete in the 2007 Nats without a YS powered plane. For
> this person to make this kind of move, it's like one of the signs of the
> apocalypse. I watched the masters Nats finals last year (from the judges
> chair) and the lack of penetration was extremely evident in the head wind. I
> was not on the FAI line so I can't say one way or another how things went
> there. But my eyes work, and I know what I have seen, there and other places
> as well. When you have to bury the stick just  to maintain any forward
> motion whatsoever, you will be hard pressed by the end of the flight. Simple
> physics.
> 
> The problem exists, however I'll be the very first to admit it comes down to
> mostly set up, equipment, and throttle management all combined. Therefore my
> main concern is not how you guys handle it, it's how everybody else does.
> 
> I have spent countless hours on the phone with Dave Lockhart discussing
> these things, and I can't tell you how much I've learned in the last couple
> of years. Keep in mind I have nothing to gain or lose either way, I don't
> fly electrics. But I do have to build them for others and one thing I hate
> is when anyone has problems with a plane I built, regardless of the source
> of the problem. So, I sort of take it upon myself to try and figure out
> solutions.
> 
> My conclusion is this: just like with any glow plane, there is no substitute
> for power. if you're marginal on your set up because of weight restrictions,
> available equipment, or most likely $$$, you will pay for it when
> competition circumstances deteriorate. Especially with older equipment.
> 
> In my opinion, the answer does not lie in a rule change. It lies squarely on
> the shoulders of the equipment manufacturers and the guys having real
> success to share thier findings in a truthful manner. We all know electric
> power is still very much in it's infancy and the progress made in the last
> couple of years is nothing short of outstanding. We're just not quite
> "there" yet for Joe Average. But we're a LOT closer than we were 2-3 years
> ago, and closer than we were last year at this time. I'm really excited
> about it all, and I appreciate the guys who I build planes for because I can
> do all of this research without having to spend my own money =) LOL
> 
> One thing you touched on that is real to me is the need for higher pitch
> props in various sizes. I honestly believe the solutions to these particular
> problems lie down that path. More pitch=more speed=no problems. I've seen
> set ups that handled these conditions fine (Like the plane I built for Emory
> Schroeter, and his packs are NOT new by any means) but at the same time I
> watch a more standard set up fry right next to it on the very next flight.
> John for instance was ok, but marginal. Luckily those packs were brand new,
> but you can't tell me they didn't suffer damage. He put back more capacity
> than the battery was even rated for. When he took them out of the plane it
> was uncomfortably hot to the touch. the packs measured about 130 degrees F.
> 
> maybe the real problem is that by the time he finally gets a set up that
> allows him to push the limits, the plane is pushing the weight limit. The
> set up for this kind of power is really heavy. For reference, that airframe
> itself was less than 4 1/2 lbs finished on the gear. So I think perhaps what
> has John's hackles up is that most other planes simply wouldn't make weight
> with a set up like that one. hence the need for a really expensive airframe
> (I'm not cheap, but anyone with any building skill could do it too...but
> then what's your time worth? Personal choice there and a whole 'nuther can
> of worms).
> 
> Didn't mean to type a novel or even crack this one open in any more detail,
> but I wanted to underscore my personal opinions that the burden lies with
> the manufacturers and test pilots. And they are doing a great job, it just
> takes time.
> 
> -Mike
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chad Northeast" <chad at f3acanada.org>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 9:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits
> 
> 
>> Interestingly enough, up here we changed MAAC rules (similar to how you
>> are setup with AMA/FAI separated), so that planes are weighed without
>> batteries.  Did it about two years ago so as to allow guys to use other
>> technology than Lipos (A123's for instance).  To date nobody has ever
>> bothered to do anything different, and I am sure most planes have been
>> close to the conventional weight limit, regardless of class.
>> 
>> As for FAI, come 2008 weight limit wont matter much.  With the shorter
>> sequences you could run a smaller pack fairly comfortably.  As well
>> there is a 50 gram allowance I believe, so you could be 5050 grams and
>> still be ok.  Just shortening the schedules will give electric a pretty
>> nice boost, it will finally allow us to haul ass in a 7 min schedule and
>> demonstrate the much needed wind killing speed that many say we dont
>> have :-)  Time to get APC to make that 20x16 :)
>> 
>> Chad
>> 
> 
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