[NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits

Fri Jun 22 08:13:24 AKDT 2007

They were stone and weren't very round, kind of like the ones in the  
B.C comic strip.

Ron Van Putte

On Jun 22, 2007, at 11:07 AM, Stuart Chale wrote:

> They already had wheels when you were 14?
>
> Sorry,
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- 
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:01 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits
>
>
>
> I have a built-in problem with someone being able to "buy" a win.   
> It comes from when I entered the Soapbox Derby as a 14 year old.   
> In my first race, I was beaten buy a kid who eventually won the  
> whole race.  My dad could afford to buy  me an official set of  
> wheels, but no more.  The father of the kid who beat me bought ten  
> sets of wheels and they were able to select the four best wheels.   
> If a rule enables only the "rich" to compete successfully with an e- 
> powered airplane, it gets my hackles up.
>
>
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
>
>
> On Jun 22, 2007, at 9:54 AM, Dave Lockhart wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Ron / John,
>
>  Point taken.  And no offense, but so what?  As a kid, I was never  
> the biggest guy on the playing fields……but I loved to play anyway  
> and never asked for a head start, an extra kick, or an extra  
> swing.  I’m still not the “biggest kid”, and some of the most fun  
> I’ve had was whooping up on the “superior” equipment back when I  
> couldn’t afford the latest greatest Skippy Propnut TurboZoot 9000  
> XL MkVII Touring edition limited SE with the add-ons.
>
> The average guy can’t afford many things…..like the Naruke edition  
> Astral flown by McMurtry at the 2006 NATs?  Or even the Oxai  
> version…..or even the Xtreme version.
>
> Your argument could be extended to many things…….2C vs 4C (as if  
> you could get a consensus on which is “better”)………..analog vs  
> digital servos………….guys flying electrics w/ NIcd or Nimh because  
> they can’t afford lipos………and on an on.
>
> Pattern competition is a competitive event with some broad limits  
> (weight, size, noise).  You have your choices, you pick what is  
> most competitive for your available budget, you practice, you  
> compete.  You win, or you lose.
>
> If you / John don’t think electric is competitive under the current  
> rules, fly glow.
>
> Others think electric is competitive and are flying electric.
>
> Again, electric is in its infancy……make a rule now that favors  
> electrics and you will ensure unquestionable electric dominance in  
> the very near future.  Just remember the 120 4C….it was to allow  
> parity between a piped 60 2C and allow a quieter powerplant.  Very  
> shortsighted rule as the 120 4C became dominant rapidly.  Clearly  
> the gap (if there is one) between electric and glow today is  
> nothing like the 2C / 4C gap was in ~1988 (when 2C 60s dominated  
> 120 4Cs) or now (when a 120 4C dominates 60 2Cs).
>
> By definition, the average guy will never be able to afford the  
> highest level setup.  And that has never prevented something like a  
> humble wooden Focus from winning the NATs…..at any level.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca- 
> discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:27 AM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits
>
>
>
> It is said that you can't understand a person's problems until  
> you've walked a mile in their shoes. John and I didn't understand  
> what the problems were regarding making weight with electric- 
> powered airplanes until he decided to compete with one. I am still  
> competing with a glow-powered Focus.
>
>
>
> John's airplane is under 5 Kg, but not by much. Due to an extensive  
> weight-saving building job on his Black Magic by Mike Hester and  
> John's careful selection and installation of radio, batteries, ESC,  
> prop, motor, spinner, et al, his airplane is OK with weight, even  
> in the kind of winds we often see at the Nats. He's thinking about  
> the guys who can't afford as much $$$ as he has invested in his  
> setup. The average guy probably can't build an electric-powered 2  
> meter airplane that makes weight and is competitive with the kind  
> of budget required for a glow-powered version of the same airplane.
>
>
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
>
>
> The learning curve is very steep.
>
> On Jun 21, 2007, at 11:54 PM, Keith Black wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I fly electric but still would be against this proposal.
>
> John F. makes some good points in his justification, however, I  
> simply think that Dave's counter points out "weigh" John's points.
>
> I think if you read Dave's post with an open mind and not a pre- 
> conceived "position" you feel you have to protect you'll find his  
> logic very compelling.
>
> BTW, I find this change of heart by you and John quite amusing.  
> This is probably unfair but it almost sounds as if one of you can't  
> get your new e-plane to make weight with the current rules. I'm  
> sure that's not true, but from the outside it certainly appears  
> that way.
>
> I hope the real reason for "floating" this idea was to get people  
> opinions. If so I'm beginning to see a trend.
>
> Keith Black
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Ron Van Putte
>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:38 PM
>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits
>
>
>
> I was also not aware that glow-powered airplanes needed the  
> handicap they already have. I agree that, with innovative design  
> and $$$, electric-powered airplanes can compete with glow-powered  
> airplanes. The ones who suffer from the weight inequity are those  
> who can't afford the $$$ to overcome the weight inequity.
>
>
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
>
>
> On Jun 21, 2007, at 6:59 PM, John Ferrell wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> I did not realize that the Electrics were in need of a handicap.  
> They seem to be doing just fine against the recips under current  
> rules.
>
> If you really think they need a little help by all means give them  
> a rule book boost!
>
> John Ferrell W8CCW
> "Life is easier if you learn to plow
> around the stumps"
> http://DixieNC.US
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: Ron Van Putte
>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 2:44 PM
>
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Airplane Weight Limits
>
>
>
> I just got this response from John Fuqua.
>
>
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
>
>
> The guys are missing the point. It is not about what can be  
> achieved on weight. It is what is permitted by the rules. They are  
> not arguing the logic of what the rules allow (in most cases) but  
> examples of what has been achieved. Please make that point.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Ron Van Putte [mailto:vanputte at cox.net]
>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:18 PM
>
> To: Fuqua John D Mr CTR USAF 697 ARSF/EN
>
> Subject: Fwd: [NSRCA-discussion] Fwd: Electric Weight Proposal  
> Logic and Rationale
>
>
>
>
>
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