[NSRCA-discussion] Nats registration

Thu Jun 14 09:51:37 AKDT 2007

Guys, there is no substitute for experience.
I don’t know if I should get into the muddle of this but here goes.
Judging certification is great I have supported it from its inception. It
brought national standardization to judging from a time when one could find
significant differences in regional interpretation of vaguely defined
judging criteria. All the folks who have and continue to dedicate their time
and effort are to be commended for a job well done.
As a somewhat reluctant judge I find judging complex higher-class maneuvers
nearly impossible without a working knowledge of and instant recall of the
maneuver nearly equal to what is required to fly the maneuver. There can be
a couple dozen maneuver elements in a complex maneuver, some of which need
to be remembered and compared to similar elements elsewhere in the maneuver.
All of this happens quite rapidly and without instant recall of exactly what
that maneuver needs to look like it is difficult to pick up many geometric
errors and incorrect geometry that should zero the maneuver. At times it can
be difficult just to understand when a maneuver is finished.
There is no substitute for time in the chair and when someone is assigned to
judge a higher class training should if possible, include actual judging of
demo-flights with after flight debriefing. Seeing the maneuver flown
correctly a few times helps a lot with instant recall.
For what it’s worth.
Jim Hiller

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron Van Putte
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 7:34 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats registration

My comments regarding not all Intermediate class pilots being qualified to
judge Advanced is from experience.  A lot of Intermediate class pilots just
moved up from Sportsman and barely know how to fly their own sequences, much
less judge a class above them.  They don't have the basic knowledge of how
to judge correctly.  I've had Intermediate pilots ask to be assigned to any
other job than being a judge of Advanced pilots because they didn't feel
qualified.

Further, like all programs, our judging certification program often leaves a
lot to be desired.  Despite the efforts of a lot of people like Don Ramsey,
how many pilots just got certified by sitting in a group with a lot of other
guys who all took the "test" together?  I've seen it happen far too often.
Judge certification classes run by Don Ramsey at the Nats take several
hours.  I've watched some local classes take less than an hour and most of
that was taking the test.  For experienced judges, just taking the test is
probably enough, because they have familiarized themselves with changes to
the rules and only need to take the test.  However, I believe that pilots
who are inexperienced judges are being shortchanged at the local level.

Ron Van Putte

On Jun 14, 2007, at 8:12 AM, John Ferrell wrote:

I find the lack of confidence in the Judging Certification Program to be an
insult to those who put forth so much effort into it.

There are still a lot of Masters/FAI pilots who choose to not waste their
time knowing the AMA rule book. And there are many pilots who are new to the
Pattern Discipline that have read and continue to read the Rule book like
the Bible!

The class one flies is not a good indicator of their judging qualities.

John Ferrell    W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to plow
       around the stumps"
http://DixieNC.US
----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Van Putte <mailto:vanputte at cox.net>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats registration

It is true that SOME Intermediate pilots are qualified to judge Advanced and
are used if they are.  The event director's job is to discover who is
qualified.  That's why we pay him the big $.  <VBG>

Ron Van Putte

On Jun 13, 2007, at 5:51 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:

Provided that the Intermediate pilots aren't qualified to judge Advanced,
right?  And since there are 20 Intermediate pilots they can help out with
judging Advanced as well - since everyone has to be certified.
On 6/13/07, Ron Van Putte < vanputte at cox.net <mailto:vanputte at cox.net> >
wrote:
As a former Nats event director, I must point out that the Master class
pilots are used to judge the Advanced AND F3A pilots, thus the problem with
the number of Master class pilots.  If you use three judges on both Advanced
lines, that's six judges each session.  Then, if there are four F3A lines,
that's another twelve judges.  So, the first two sessions of Advanced and
F3A requires 36 Master class judges.   Oh oh! we run out of Master class
judges on the third day if we only have 40 Master class pilots and nobody
volunteers to judge extra sessions.  That's why Dave Guerin's hair is
turning gray/falling out.

Ron Van Putte

On Jun 13, 2007, at 5:26 PM, Derek Koopowitz wrote:

And for one year there will actually be enough judges to judge Masters -
we've always struggled with not having enough F3A pilots to fill the Masters
judging pool.

On 6/13/07, Jim Woodward < Jim.Woodward at armorholdings.com
<mailto:Jim.Woodward at armorholdings.com> > wrote:
Wow – Awesome!  The Masters pilots will get a taste of judging a highly
attended FAI class!  :-) :-) :-)

Jim W.

  _____

From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org>  [mailto:
nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
<mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org> ] On Behalf Of Derek
Koopowitz
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 12:41 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List; dist7 at nsrca.org <mailto:dist7 at nsrca.org>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Nats registration

It looks like we have 115 total registered pilots for the Nats this year
(from the AMA website)...

Intermediate - 20
Advanced - 16
Masters - 40
FAI - 39

Those are excellent #'s and I'm hoping that there will still be some late
entries that will raise those numbers even more.

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