[NSRCA-discussion] contest
Ed Miller
edbon85 at charter.net
Wed Jul 4 05:12:46 AKDT 2007
I have to agree with Ed here. If the contest start date is a Saturday but
you decide you are only going to show up on Sunday, YOU need to verify ahead
of time with the CD to see what the agenda is for Sunday. Unless the CD
states specifically in his AMA sanction/ad for the event that X number of
rounds will be flown each day, it is entirely possible that all the flying
is done on Saturday and judging seminars done on Sunday or vice versa for an
example. I just ran into this with a Warbird event I CD'ed here in TN. I
sanctioned the event for 2 days, however the ad said the event was on
Saturday and Sunday was the rain date. Everyone attended Saturday ( 20
flyers ) and no one had any intention of coming back on Sunday. Of course
AMA D5 having their District "fun fly" the same day only 90 miles away
didn't help things. Common sense has to dictate things here. If you don't
plan to be at the start of the event and take your chances showing up for
day 2 only, you've done just that, taken a chance. Make a call before you
burn $2.75/gallon in gas....oh wait we are talking the NE here, I mean
$3.50/gallon gas.......:)
Ed M.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Alt" <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
Terry:
It's deviations from the rules that are discussed. Anyway, following your
line of reasoning here, the next thing to argue is that the CD flew too many
rounds on Saturday. Suppose he had us fly Sunday as well and put in one
round. Had you shown up on Sunday, you would have had no mathematical
chance to win, unless you could have somehow convinced the CD to start
repeating rounds that were not necessary for the rest of the flyers who did
show up at the advertised time. That would be the case in most contests,
for example at Pocono the week before when we flew 4 rounds on Saturday,
except in Advanced.
I would still like to see where it says that you can't shorten the number of
days based on this type of circumstance. I think that if you try to take
away common sense flexibility, some CD's who run events with historically
smaller turnouts may decide to clip the contests from 2 days to 1 day, just
to avoid the possibility of a protest from someone who later claims that
they lost their shot at a trophy because of CD malfeasance. Think about the
CD who has to convince his club helpers that they need to give up their time
again on Sunday to support the possibility that a no-show from somewhere in
the district will suddenly show, all the while knowing full well that most,
if not all of the contestants from day 1 won't even bother to return, as the
results are already mathematically settled.
Re. the almost trip, call the CD the night before and confirm what's going
on. Call a buddy who went Saturday. I would call just to see if it was
worth the trip in terms of rounds already flown vs. rounds planned.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Adrien L Terrenoire
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 5:55 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
This is the kind of logic that makes legal documents 300 pages long. I am
SURE there is no specific mention of shortening a contest, but there IS
wording that says any deviation from rules MUST be published in advance. I
take that to mean if something IS published, like a 2 day contest, I, as a
competitor have the reasonable expectation of going to the event on the
second day and being able to fly, and get judged, and have it count in the
contest!
Don't get me wrong, I may have voted to end the contest too, and I can
certainly see the logic with just 10 pilots. I would just like for all CDs
to be aware that AMA states that you must follow the published statements!
I also said in my original post that I nearly made a 2 hour trip for
nothing on Sunday!
Terry T.
On Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:55:31 -0500 "Ed Alt" <ed_alt at hotmail.com> writes:
Oh heck, I couldn't resist, so I went back to try to find the place in
the rules where it says a CD can't shorten the contest. I couldn't find it.
I found things like he can't cancel it for low attendance, which didn't
happen. But nothing about clipping a day off the end after a sufficient
number of rounds has been flown, with the consent of all contestants
PRESENT. Please provide the passage for review, because I don't see it
anywhere.
Thanks
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Alt
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
Del:
That would have been quite a challenge with no pilots. We got a full
contest in on Saturday. Let's move on, shall we?
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Del K. Rykert
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
Terry is correct. The CD guidelines are very clear regarding any
changes to a sanctioned event that are advertised. They do have to follow
the format that was advertised. Acts of GOD & severe weather are acceptable
exceptions.
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Alt
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
Terry:
Ask John about what he was thinking re. the Sunday late comer
possibility. I don't know.
Anyway, I think the CD does have this type of discretion. There's
a point at which you are putting contestants who did show up on the
advertised start date and time in position where they would have to incur
the additional time and expense of the 2nd day for no useful purpose from
their point of view. We got 5 rounds in without breaking a sweat. That's a
complete contest. I think he made a good decision and he also discussed it
with us first.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Adrien L Terrenoire
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
When John made that decision did he consider that there may be a
flyer who could only make it Sunday?? At one point that option was one I
considered. I had a birthday party for my 3 year old grandson in CT, and I
gave consideration to coming home Sunday by way of the contest. Needless to
say, I would have been really P*****d if I had gotten there just to find out
that it had been turned into a one day affair. That is NOT following AMA
guidelines for a contest adminstration. The CD MUST adhear to the advertised
event schedule.
Terry T.
On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 17:52:19 -0500 "Ed Alt" <ed_alt at hotmail.com>
writes:
Del:
This was actually scheduled as a 2 day contest. Due to the
low attendance, John Tarpinian elected to make it a one day contest, which
worked out quite well.
Anyway, I agree with George's assessment. It's a really nice
field with some minor runway obstacles to keep in mind, but for all
practical purposes, they don't exist due to the CD instructions on how
landings are to be scored (anywhere on a very long runway is a 10). We had
a great time flying, the hospitality from the club was great and overall, it
was an event I will want to return to.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: Del K. Rykert
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
Hi George..
When/if I can get back to competing that is a long way
to go for a one day event knowing how fickle the weather in the N.E. can be.
I have never attended a 1 day event in all my years of competing. If they
were close by that might make it viable.
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: george w. kennie
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:33 PM
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] contest
For all the guys in D1 that missed the Hadley contest on
Saturday I want to express my disappointment at the absence of your presence
at what was a terrific time.Ed Alt was the only guy that showed up from the
N.J. contingent and was a great help as judge, caller, and certainly the
premiere performer of the day with really notable performances from Scott
Smith with his new electric Patriot with the Hacker 60 up front. I felt that
everyone flew well and would have loved to have had more representation in
each class.
Due to the East facing flightline we didn't get started as
early as I would have liked, but that was probably a blessing in disguise as
we probably would have had a 10 round contest.
As it was, the contest was a very laid-back affair with
wonderful temperatures and partly sunny skies, a little breezy in the P.M.,
but handled easily by everyone in attendance. Lots of lazy kibitzing under
the easy-ups all day.
The field was freshly mowed and well prepped for even the
lowest of prop clearances ( Walter Erickson had about 3/4").
One of the enticing features of this event were the high
dollar prizes awarded the winners. Jim Quinn was overheard celebrating his
$6K award for his high placement in Master's.
In spite of my personal ban ( apparently the word had not
gotten out) I was allowed to judge 5 rounds in all classes which was very
refreshing after all these years.
The kindness extended to me was very much appreciated as
they allowed me to fly a class that I was totally unqualified for in spite
of the fact that I came in dead last (in a field of one).
Great food was in abundance both lunch and dinner and it
was gratus. Nobody went home hungry. John Tarpinian(C.D.) did an admirable
job of putting together a first rate event and even had a hat-draw raffle at
the end where everyone went home with something of value (that's in addition
to those high dollar placement awards).
In attendance was the "New Kid" in D1 competition, David
Lampron, who took first in Sportsman and at 13 years of age is going to be
one to watch in the next couple of years. David has a younger brother, Dean,
who I predict will follow in his brother's footsteps. These 2 kids are the
nicest young guys, respectful and polite to a fault. David served as a
maneuver caller for the judges on many rounds and a little sister, Kelly
worked on the scoring program ( not as a runner, but the real thing), she
must have been about 9 or 10.
The field is a little tight on one end and will make you
pay attention on your landings, but the overall surroundings are a very
pleasant farmland paradise. For the guys that passed this one up this year,
you really missed a great time.Be sure and put a big star beside this one on
next year's calendar.You'll be glad you did.
Georgie
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