[NSRCA-discussion] Bad fuel

Mon Jan 15 10:28:36 AKST 2007

Verdict is this is the wrong stuff.   The crystals grew by appx 1 oz volume.  They got SOMTEHING but they quit.

So, the easy to find stuff is not going to work.

The correct stuff, if I remember correctly was being used by someone on the AMA District VIII e-mail list.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peter Pennisi 
  To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' 
  Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 6:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bad fuel

  Hi Fred,

  Thanks for doing the experiment I will be very interested to hear the verdict.

  Regards,

  Peter

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  From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred Huber
  Sent: Monday, 15 January 2007 18:43 PM
  To: NSRCA Mailing List
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bad fuel

  OK... running the experiment

  8 oz fuel (supposed to be 30% heli fuel.. but sat for a long time)

  4 oz water added.

  1/2 tablespoon crystals. (overkill for the 4 oz water)

  Should know what it looks like in a couple of hours.  It takes this stuff a while to do all the absorbing its going to do.

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Fred Huber 

    To: NSRCA Mailing List 

    Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:26 AM

    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bad fuel

    The freezing trick works to get water out of some oils... but not out of alcohols.

    Distillation or a molecular seive will get the water out. 

    It would be a multi-stage distilation..

    Evaportaion would leave the oil behind.

    I'm not sure which evaporates first.. Methyl alcohol or Nitromethane

    Distillation is a big mess to set up to end up with the water out and get back all the fuel.. not cost effective to salvage 4 gallons.

    The molecular seive can be done 2 ways...

    http://www.ecn.nl/docs/library/report/2006/rx06023.pdf

    Or there's a "gel-crystal" which will absorb water but the alcohol molecule is too big.  I am unsure if the water retention crystals you can get a the local garden supply (even at some grocery stores) is the correct stuff to separae water from alcohol (and oil.. but if it doesn't take in the alcolhol it probably won't tke in the oil).  Its not very expensive ($14 gets enough crystals to absorb about 25 gallons of water) so its a viable thing to try. (If it doesn't work you can use the crystals in potted plants and your garden)

    I have some of the garden version gel-crystals... I guess I could dump water into 8 oz of some very old fuel I have and see what happens when I put the crystals in...

    I HAVE read reports of some version of gel-crystal stuff working.  The question is where to get the correct stuff. (If this isn't the right stuff)  If it works, the stuff is reusable... just strain out the gel blobs (sintered brass clunk/pickup wouldn't let the stuff through) then dry them in the sun.  

    The garden stuff: 2 tablespoons of crystals makes over 1 quart of gel when its absorbed water.

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Lance Van Nostrand 

      To: NSRCA Mailing List 

      Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 12:23 AM

      Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bad fuel

      Does this really work?  The water that is in solution will separate and freeze?  

      --Lance

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Koenig, Tom 

        To: NSRCA Mailing List 

        Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 4:23 PM

        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Bad fuel

        Peter,

        Stick it in the freezer. The water will freeze, just skim it off. 

        Tom

        -----Original Message-----
        From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Peter Pennisi
        Sent: Monday, 15 January 2007 9:11 AM
        To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
        Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Bad fuel

            I have 4 gallons of 30% nitro fuel which was mixed with bad Methanol (unknown at the time) the rest of the ingredients were fine.

            I am assuming that moisture may have got the drum of methanol but I am not sure.

            Is there anything I can do to recover this fuel for at least sport plane use or do I count my losses and throw it out?  

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