[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ...goodfor thefutureofthePattern Event?
Del K. Rykert
drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
Sun Jan 7 07:12:36 AKST 2007
Hi Leonard.
Hope all is well with you.
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: Leonard Rudy
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 9:20 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ...goodfor thefutureofthePattern Event?
Terry,
I am in a similar position as Jerry's brother. I have two 2 meter planes. A Focus 2 and
a Vivat. In practice, I mainly fly the Intermediate pattern. I have not competed before
and would not start out in that class as I would feel very intimated. (It will be bad enough
in the Sportsman class.) If I was told I have to fly the Intermediate class, it just would
not happen. I would sit it out and watch.
Len <amad2terry at juno.com> wrote:
Jerry:
You are first, jumping to the conclusion that anything is going to be
"decided" on this forum, and second that it would go into effect for the
upcoming competition season. Both are VERY far from reality, but a CD
could publish this intention ahead of time, so your brother could take
another plane, or move up, or stay home.
We are expressing our thoughts on something that we feel could help the
growth of Pattern. OK, you have an specific example that is the
exception, but if your brother IS good enough to fly the Impact, and an
IMAC plane, why not move him up to Intermediate? He certainly is not
going to be challenged by the Sportsman sequence!
Terry T.
On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 17:07:09 -0800 "JFGREEN" writes:
> Let me give you an example: My brother decided to try pattern. Hes
> a good
> flyer and flew two contests with a 60 trainer. Two contests that
> convinced
> him that he would like to jump into pattern. He bought an impact
> and wants
> to get serious in sportsman this coming year. Possibly he will be
> told
> sorry you can't fly at our contest now because you decided to buy
> near state
> of the art equipment and it's not fair to those who are less
> fortunate or
> talented than you are. He also bought an IMAC airplane this year.
> If the
> "fairness rule" takes effect he some others I recruited may have
> some
> pattern planes for sale and IMAC will benefit by their
> participation. I
> have nothing against anyone participating in sportsman with any type
> of
> airplane they have, a 60 trainer or an Elexant. How far do we carry
> it? If
> another guy shows up in intermediate with a Twister and I can only
> afford an
> old used Oly, do we give me a handicap on the scoring. What if the
> wind is
> blowing, handicap for the 60 trainer, and my Oly. It wouldn't be
> "fair" to
> do otherwise, would it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
> george w.
> kennie
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 3:21 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ...goodfor
> thefutureofthePattern Event?
>
> Jerry,
> The way I see it is, if there's a rule limit, the guy already knows
> it
> exists and he is not going to show up with something that violates
> the
> rules. Additionally, if he owns an Impact, he has already convinced
> himself
> that he's a proficient enough pilot to fly an Impact and therefore
> able to
> conclude that he will be more than capable with a smaller model when
>
> competing against a similar field.
> What guy do you know flying an Impact that doesn't have a stable of
> smaller
> planes that he plays around with. I'm not sure that it's an issue.
> JMO, Georgie
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JFGREEN"
> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'"
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 1:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... goodfor
> thefutureofthePattern Event?
>
>
> > Dennis: Why a limit? What if an interested flyer shows up with an
> Impact
> > to
> > fly sportsman? Are we not going to let him fly? Sportsman
> doesn't limit
> > what you can fly now and it seems to work for those who are
> interested.
> > If
> > one isn't interested in competing, will creating limits on their
> options
> > help their interest? Jerry
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
> Dennis
> > Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 10:43 AM
> > To: NSRCA Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for
> > thefutureofthePattern Event?
> >
> > Well at last a comment that to me makes some sense. If the
> perception from
> > the person wanting to start pattern is that in order to be
> competitive
> > and/or to look like they fit in is to have the latest full 2 meter
> pattern
> > plane then I agree a change is needed. I have had those very words
> said to
> > me by someone who was interested but did not want to spend the
> money to be
> > as they put it "competitive". Perhaps what we need to do is limit
> the size
> > of the plane for the entry-level classes. This takes out the
> feeling of
> > needing the latest and greatest, limits the cost and perhaps even
> tells
> > them
> > they can fly what they have now. I would never support telling
> them they
> > have to have a particular plane for the class. They have the
> freedom of
> > choice and by the time they are ready for advanced they will be
> hooked and
> > can go for the bigger, more expensive stuff if they choose.
> >
> > Dennis Cone
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed
> Miller
> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 5:59 PM
> > To: NSRCA Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for
> > thefutureofthePattern Event?
> >
> > The survey says.......... Only NSRCA 171 members responded, that
> in it
> > self
> > is another topic of discussion. Point is for the most part, the
> 171 that
> > did respond are already hooked. This or any other survey I'm
> aware of
> > wasn't given to the target audience, Joe Newbie who may want to
> give
> > pattern, NSRCA and competition a try. We need to develop a
> strategy to
> > add
> > to that 171 number, folks that have yet to join the NSRCA.
> > There has been volumes written on this forum on how to attract the
>
> > "newbie",
> > some touting cost, size of planes, complexity of equipment and
> schedules
> > as
> > well as many other reasons as to why we encounter difficulty
> enlisting new
> > blood. One constant we can never change ( IMHO ), if an
> individual does
> > not
> > have competition in their blood, we aren't going to be able to
> turn them
> > to
> > the "dark side" short of a lobotomy.
> > On the other hand, there are those out there that might take the
> plunge
> > but
> > look at where pattern equipment evolution has gone in the last 15
> years
> > and
> > don't see where they fit in.
> > I wish I had a dollar for every OS 91 four stroke I see at fields
> every
> > weekend powering H9 P-51's, Sticks, H9 AT6's, etc. the list goes
> on.
> > Along
> > our infamous journey, pattern engine evolution has left behind the
> sport
> > flyer. For years the staple of sport and pattern flying was the
> .60 2C.
> > Then came the 1.20 4C. Both engines were within the sport flyers
> grasp
> > and
> > if they took a foray into pattern and it didn't pan out, they
> could always
> > use that .60 2c or 1.20 4C in the sport plane ARF of the week.
> Engine
> > size,
> > price nor complexity generally was not an issue. An OS 61 FSR
> with a
> > muffler was great for a sport flyer and with a pipe made a
> formidable
> > pattern engine package back in the day. The original YS and Enya
> R 4C 1.2
> > engines were reasonably priced, made good power and were reliable.
> They
> > were happy in the nose of a mid '90's pattern ship or a Sig 1/4
> scale
> > clipped wing Cub.
> > Along comes the world of 1.4 to 1.6 pumped 2C, headers and CF
> pipes
> > costing
> > in excess of $700, 1.6 4C with headers, mufflers and 30% fuel
> costing way
> > over $800 to haul 2M Pregnant Guppy plane of the week around. Say
> what
> > you
> > will but today's politically correct 2M pattern power plant
> options are
> > for
> > the most part very specific to pattern and virtually nothing else
> along
> > with
> > being expensive. Sure the OS 1.6 is a "sport engine" at heart and
> at the
> > lowest end of the price spectrum but not in pattern trim with
> custom
> > headers
> > from Karl Mueller, Hatori ( yeah, try and get those from Tower ),
> Perry
> > pumps and take your pick of aluminum or CF pipes. The Imac/Giant
> scale
> > crowd have it easy, a DA 50 or 100 with some cans will power just
> about
> > anything you want to fly, whether it be aerobatic or scale. The
> only
> > difference is size. Relatively cheap fuel is readily available at
> your
> > local gas station. I guess 30% Nitro heli fuel is cheap compared
> to 90%
> > Nitro fuel run in Top Fuel Dragsters so we don't have it all that
> bad :).
> > Put yourself in Joe Newbie's shoes, he figures he can always sell
> the
> > pattern airframe if he decides pattern isn't his cup of tea, but
> what does
> > he do with those expensive pattern specific lumps of aluminum,
> steel and
> > C/F
> > ?? Sure anything can be sold but at a great loss and to a small
> target
> > audience. Try and sell a R/E OS 140RX/header/pipe to a guy
> building a 1/4
> > scale Cub. Or a $800 + single cylinder 4C, that same $$ can buy a
> twin
> > cylinder 4C with less power but a much quieter, sweeter sound, no
>
> > vibration
> > and I know first hand a whole lot less maintenance.
> > Though I have no intention of giving up my 2M planes and
> "expensive
> > pattern
> > specific lumps of aluminum, steel and C/F" whether they be 2C, 4C
> or
> > Electrons shortly I hope. However, I really believe if Sportsman
> and
> > possibly Intermediate were limited to .90 displacement, it would
> be a
> > positive step towards Joe Newbie giving pattern a shot. Hell, I
> bet he
> > already has a .91 Surpass...........
> > Ed M.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Grow Pattern"
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for
> > thefutureofthePattern Event?
> >
> >
> >> John,
> >> I thought that you might be interested in this
> information.
> >>
> >> In the 2005 NSRCA rules change survey (sent out in 2002) I
> compiled the
> >> following question with the intent of encouraging 60-90 sized
> completive
> >> airplane development.
> >>
> >> Judging of distances
> >>
> >>
> >> Question-65
> >>
> >> Should we therefore consider and AMA pattern contest rule change
> that
> >> states
> >> the pilot should make the plane appear to be at the size of a
> 2-meter
> >> plane
> >> being flown at 150-175 meters.?
> >>
> >> YES = 71 NO = 100 RESULT = NO PROPOSED CHANGE .
> >>
> >> I had been advised that the existing selection-and-intent of the
> FAI
> >> 150-metres rule was to create a relatively equal ease of
> visibility for
> >> 2M
> >> airplanes to the judges?? Whether that was true or not I admit
> to being
> >> very surprised when the idea was rejected so soundly by the
> survey
> >> respondents.
> >>
> >> I had been thinking that the smaller planes would fare better if
> they
> >> were
> >> flown in a bit closer. Our rough math had shown that a 60-72"
> airplane
> >> would
> >> look just about right at 100-110-M.
> >>
> >> What would the difference be for a 2-M airplane and a 1.5-M
> airplane if
> >> flown at their relative distances?
> >>
> >> I also thought that the budding but slower electric planes of the
> day
> >> could
> >> use the closer in option and need less extreme (read expensive)
> power
> >> systems.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Eric.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John Ferrell"
> >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
> >> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 4:46 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
> >> futureofthePattern Event?
> >>
> >>
> >>> There is no need to worry about rules changes at this time.
> >>>
> >>> Those of us dabbling with smaller planes are doing it with the
> existing
> >>> rules. If winning trophies and satisfying judging problems are
> at the
> >>> top
> >>> of
> >>> your needs you will probably be best served with whatever is
> percieved
> >>> as
> >>> the latest & greatest equipment.
> >>>
> >>> I have two boxes of trophies out in the shed. The smaller box is
> from
> >>> when
> >>> nobody better showed up. The larger box is from events that did
> not get
> >>> enough attendance to give away the trophies. I don't have strong
>
> >>> feelings
> >>> about either box!
> >>>
> >>> I just want to fly more and enjoy it more. Right now that
> appears to be
> >>> with
> >>> a little smaller airplane!
> >>>
> >>> John Ferrell W8CCW
> >>> "My Competition is not my enemy"
> >>> http://DixieNC.US
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "george w. kennie"
> >>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List"
> >>> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 10:40 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
> future
> >>> ofthePattern Event?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Deano,
> >>>> When you reference " changing the shape of the event ", how
> deep are
> >>>> you
> >>>> suggesting things go? Are we losing sight of the fact that we
> are part
> >>>> of
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date:
> 1/5/2007
> >
> >
> > --
> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date:
> 1/5/2007
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date:
> 1/5/2007
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date:
> 1/5/2007
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
NSRCA-discussion mailing list
NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20070107/9639e37f/attachment-0001.html
More information about the NSRCA-discussion
mailing list