[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for thefutureofthePattern Event?
Del K. Rykert
drykert2 at rochester.rr.com
Sat Jan 6 07:27:46 AKST 2007
it is very ... Look how many use smaller / cheaper models to practice with
and only save their primary for contests? WHY? What is the true story
being stated with actions like that.?
Del
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for
thefutureofthePattern Event?
> Yeah, Ed.
> It does sound hypocritical, doesn't it?
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed Miller
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:33 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for
> thefutureofthePattern Event?
>
>
> I think the fact there are a slew of 60 to 90 sized pattern arfs readily
> available at a sub $300 price tag will motivate newbies more than the
> cumbersome size issue. If or when a newbie gets hooked, the size issue,
> or
> lack there of, then is an added benefit. Problem is and we've all been
> there is the question "what do I need to compete with". There you stand
> touting all the good 60 to 90 size planes out there while trying to hide
> your guppy 2M plane of the week............
> Ed M.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the
> futureofthePattern Event?
>
>
>> Thanks Jay,
>> That's why I posted to the list. Between the whole lot of us, we can get
>> some coverage.
>> Maybe it begs the issue of how to find newbies in the first place ( silly
>> grin ) but you might start at the regular club meeting/field.
>> Aren't there guys who watch and comment on your Pattern stuff, but don't
>> get into the event, in your local club?
>> Ask them if they think the entry barrier would change for them or someone
>> like them. They may be closer to that prospective newbie than you are.
>> They may come back and say that the practice discipline is why they will
>> never do it,
>> and others may come back and say, "Wow smaller/cheaper planes that fit in
>> my car and my apartmenmt workshop! I'm in!"
>> I doubt you'll get such clear feedback, but you might get something.
>> later,
>> Dean
>>
>>
>> Dean Pappas
>> Sr. Design Engineer
>> Kodeos Communications
>> 111 Corporate Blvd.
>> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>> (908) 222-7817 phone
>> (908) 222-2392 fax
>> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay
>> Marshall
>> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:58 PM
>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the future
>> ofthePattern Event?
>>
>>
>> Dean, you bring up a very good point. Most of us are seeped in the 2m
>> venue.
>> We should really be talking to prospective new flyers. How do we do that?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean
>> Pappas
>> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:09 PM
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the future of
>> thePattern Event?
>>
>> Hi Anthony,
>> Hi All,
>> Forget the implementational details for now. Stop trying to Engineer it,
>> we
>> are doing Marketting.
>> If it helps to get in the right frame of mind, take a few stiff drinks
>> and
>> bang your head on the workbench about ten times.
>> If we decide that it's worthwhile, then there are a zillion ways to make
>> the
>> transition and to also grandfather existing planes for several years.
>> That's not the issue, at least not for now.
>>
>> Changing the shape of the event: just for "something to do" would be an
>> awful waste of energy and needless turmoil.
>> We all dislike wasted energy, and I hope that we all agree that needless
>> turmoil is to be avoided.
>> I really want to focus on the basic question. Will making Pattern ships
>> smaller lead to increased future participation in the event?
>> If the answer isn't YES, then the grief probably ain't worth it.
>>
>> So far, I am hearing a mixed bag, and a whole lot of talk about the
>> compromises we have all made when buying a vehicle.
>> I am there with you. (stow 'n go Grand caravan ... love it)
>> But the choir is already saved, and you all already fly Pattern.
>> Please go pester the newbies and the folks that you think are potential
>> Pattern newbies.
>> Will this make a difference as to whether they take the plunge?
>> Maybe the answer is that future participation won't be improved.
>>
>> After we figure out whether future participation will or will not be
>> helped,
>> then we can figure out what those of us already in the event would like.
>> That is an entirely separate question.
>>
>> thanks for the help,
>> Dean
>>
>>
>>
>> Dean Pappas
>> Sr. Design Engineer
>> Kodeos Communications
>> 111 Corporate Blvd.
>> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>> (908) 222-7817 phone
>> (908) 222-2392 fax
>> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Anthony
>> Romano
>> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 11:31 AM
>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models bonus!?
>>
>>
>> Ok I will try it again. What about a 10 % score bonus for a 1.7m model?
>> 1.5m
>>
>> 20%? Encourage the newbie or the guy on a budget and take away the
>> perceived
>>
>> advantage without causing obsolescence on current equipment.
>> Remember the biplane bonus at the TOC? Wasn't there a size bonus as well
>> waaayyy back?
>>
>> Maybe it needs to be limited to sportsman or intermediate maybe not.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>>From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
>>>Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>>Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:12:11 -0500
>>>
>>>Yes, that is known as the BPA, Ballistic Pattern Association. So soon
>>>there
>>>will be 3 pattern venues to split the already dwindling pattern base :).
>>>Ed M.
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com>
>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:40 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting indeed - a local club is considering holding a "ole fashion"
>>>pattern contest this fall. The plan is to fly pre-turnaround pattern. Not
>>>sure exactly what the rules will be - but not SPA, as the intent is to
>>>allow
>>>'70's - '80's airplanes with piped engines & retracts (one member
>>>mentioned
>>>a Brushfire with piped Jett 90).
>>>
>>>I'm very comfortable with pattern as it is - however, there is a gap
>>>between
>>>current pattern and SPA that many seem interested in.
>>>
>>>Earl
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Koenig, Tom
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:16 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>>
>>>
>>> Guys-there are many of us that reminisce about the 'simpler' days of
>>> the
>>>60 size models, even down here!
>>>
>>> I mentioned recently to some locals that I may hold a comp similar to
>>>your
>>>SPA stuff. I considered just allowing 60 size models as a max, never mind
>>>all the vintage rules etc.....I was SWAMPED with interest. There were all
>>>sorts of ex pattern pilots ready to show up. I think I'd have had 40 -50
>>>possible entries!!!
>>>
>>> Not trying to stir things up-but it is interesting nonetheless.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron
>>>Lockhart
>>> Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:31 AM
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Smaller Models
>>>
>>>
>>> Yea, smaller has a number of advantages.
>>> A reduction in money, time, hassle factor, etc., of models is a
>>>thought
>>>toward increased participation.
>>> (Yea, I know the established pilots, and new pilots, are allowed to
>>>fly
>>>smaller models right now. But we have a
>>> lot of history that shows Dean's comment "Given that everyone will
>>>build or buy up to the maximum size limit" is true.
>>> How does that Dixie thing go?....<G>
>>>
>>> Ron Lockhart
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Dean Pappas
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 4:51 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi John,
>>> A year or so ago, I puit together an Excelleron 90 for a review
>>> and
>>>eventual sale to a newbie.
>>> Boy! Was it nice to drop a plane into the minivan in one piece!
>>> It was almost as good as when a Phoenix 8 would fit into the back
>>> of
>>
>>>a
>>>hatchback Camaro in one piece.
>>>
>>> Given that everyone will build or buy up to the maximum size
>>> limit,
>>> is there a good enough reason to push on the rules bodies to
>>>legislate
>>>Pattern plane sizes back down?
>>> How about 1.6 or 1.7 meters square?
>>> Will this affect cost and complexity enough to have a beneficial
>>>effect on participation?
>>> Or am I just whistling Dixie?
>>>
>>> later,
>>> Dean
>>> Dean Pappas
>>> Sr. Design Engineer
>>> Kodeos Communications
>>> 111 Corporate Blvd.
>>> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>>> (908) 222-7817 phone
>>> (908) 222-2392 fax
>>> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of John
>>>Ferrell
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:07 PM
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Header Brace
>>>
>>>
>>> There seems to be a growing trend toward smaller airplanes among
>>> a
>>>lot of folks. I sure am enjoying the 90 size Boxer I bought from Ed
>>>Miller
>>>last summer. Less hassle to transport, assemble and fly. That means I can
>>>fly more!
>>>
>>> John Ferrell W8CCW
>>> "My Competition is not my enemy"
>>> http://DixieNC.US
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
>>>************************************************************************
>>> *PLEASE NOTE* This email and any attachments may
>>> be confidential. If received in error, please delete all
>>> copies and advise the sender. The reproduction or
>>> dissemination of this email or its attachments is
>>> prohibited without the consent of the sender.
>>>
>>> WARNING RE VIRUSES: Our computer systems sweep
>>> outgoing email to guard against viruses, but no warranty
>>> is given that this email or its attachments are virus free.
>>> Before opening or using attachments, please check for
>>> viruses. Our liability is limited to the re-supply of any
>>> affected attachments.
>>>
>>> Any views expressed in this message are those of the
>>> individual sender, except where the sender expressly,
>>> and with authority, states them to be the views of the
>>> organisation.
>>>
>>>************************************************************************
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -----
>>>
>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Fixing up the home? Live Search can help
>> http://imagine-windowslive.com/search/kits/default.aspx?kit=improve&locale=e
>> n-US&source=hmemailtaglinenov06&FORM=WLMTAG
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
More information about the NSRCA-discussion
mailing list