[NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good forthefutureofthePattern Event?

vicenterc at comcast.net vicenterc at comcast.net
Sat Jan 6 05:27:43 AKST 2007


My first contest I used a 4-Start 40.  The following year I used a 60 size pattern plane.  That was in 94 and 95.    

Vicente "Vince" Bortone

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net> 

> Ed 
> My first 3 contests in AMA were with a Daddy Rabbit with a OS 91 in it.It 
> was not long that I found out,you can't see the plane at the distance we are 
> required to fly. 
> Then again a 60 sized Boxer won the Nats during that time. 
> I am convinced there is no magic to this problem. 
> 
> Jim Ivey 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ed Miller" 
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:58 PM 
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good 
> forthefutureofthePattern Event? 
> 
> 
> > The survey says.......... Only NSRCA 171 members responded, that in it 
> self 
> > is another topic of discussion. Point is for the most part, the 171 that 
> > did respond are already hooked. This or any other survey I'm aware of 
> > wasn't given to the target audience, Joe Newbie who may want to give 
> > pattern, NSRCA and competition a try. We need to develop a strategy to 
> add 
> > to that 171 number, folks that have yet to join the NSRCA. 
> > There has been volumes written on this forum on how to attract the 
> "newbie", 
> > some touting cost, size of planes, complexity of equipment and schedules 
> as 
> > well as many other reasons as to why we encounter difficulty enlisting new 
> > blood. One constant we can never change ( IMHO ), if an individual does 
> not 
> > have competition in their blood, we aren't going to be able to turn them 
> to 
> > the "dark side" short of a lobotomy. 
> > On the other hand, there are those out there that might take the plunge 
> but 
> > look at where pattern equipment evolution has gone in the last 15 years 
> and 
> > don't see where they fit in. 
> > I wish I had a dollar for every OS 91 four stroke I see at fields every 
> > weekend powering H9 P-51's, Sticks, H9 AT6's, etc. the list goes on. 
> Along 
> > our infamous journey, pattern engine evolution has left behind the sport 
> > flyer. For years the staple of sport and pattern flying was the .60 2C. 
> > Then came the 1.20 4C. Both engines were within the sport flyers grasp 
> and 
> > if they took a foray into pattern and it didn't pan out, they could always 
> > use that .60 2c or 1.20 4C in the sport plane ARF of the week. Engine 
> size, 
> > price nor complexity generally was not an issue. An OS 61 FSR with a 
> > muffler was great for a sport flyer and with a pipe made a formidable 
> > pattern engine package back in the day. The original YS and Enya R 4C 1.2 
> > engines were reasonably priced, made good power and were reliable. They 
> > were happy in the nose of a mid '90's pattern ship or a Sig 1/4 scale 
> > clipped wing Cub. 
> > Along comes the world of 1.4 to 1.6 pumped 2C, headers and CF pipes 
> costing 
> > in excess of $700, 1.6 4C with headers, mufflers and 30% fuel costing way 
> > over $800 to haul 2M Pregnant Guppy plane of the week around. Say what 
> you 
> > will but today's politically correct 2M pattern power plant options are 
> for 
> > the most part very specific to pattern and virtually nothing else along 
> with 
> > being expensive. Sure the OS 1.6 is a "sport engine" at heart and at the 
> > lowest end of the price spectrum but not in pattern trim with custom 
> headers 
> > from Karl Mueller, Hatori ( yeah, try and get those from Tower ), Perry 
> > pumps and take your pick of aluminum or CF pipes. The Imac/Giant scale 
> > crowd have it easy, a DA 50 or 100 with some cans will power just about 
> > anything you want to fly, whether it be aerobatic or scale. The only 
> > difference is size. Relatively cheap fuel is readily available at your 
> > local gas station. I guess 30% Nitro heli fuel is cheap compared to 90% 
> > Nitro fuel run in Top Fuel Dragsters so we don't have it all that bad :). 
> > Put yourself in Joe Newbie's shoes, he figures he can always sell the 
> > pattern airframe if he decides pattern isn't his cup of tea, but what does 
> > he do with those expensive pattern specific lumps of aluminum, steel and 
> C/F 
> > ?? Sure anything can be sold but at a great loss and to a small target 
> > audience. Try and sell a R/E OS 140RX/header/pipe to a guy building a 1/4 
> > scale Cub. Or a $800 + single cylinder 4C, that same $$ can buy a twin 
> > cylinder 4C with less power but a much quieter, sweeter sound, no 
> vibration 
> > and I know first hand a whole lot less maintenance. 
> > Though I have no intention of giving up my 2M planes and "expensive 
> pattern 
> > specific lumps of aluminum, steel and C/F" whether they be 2C, 4C or 
> > Electrons shortly I hope. However, I really believe if Sportsman and 
> > possibly Intermediate were limited to .90 displacement, it would be a 
> > positive step towards Joe Newbie giving pattern a shot. Hell, I bet he 
> > already has a .91 Surpass........... 
> > Ed M. 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Grow Pattern" 
> > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 7:47 PM 
> > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for 
> > thefutureofthePattern Event? 
> > 
> > 
> > > John, 
> > > I thought that you might be interested in this information. 
> > > 
> > > In the 2005 NSRCA rules change survey (sent out in 2002) I compiled the 
> > > following question with the intent of encouraging 60-90 sized completive 
> > > airplane development. 
> > > 
> > > Judging of distances 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Question-65 
> > > 
> > > Should we therefore consider and AMA pattern contest rule change that 
> > > states 
> > > the pilot should make the plane appear to be at the size of a 2-meter 
> > > plane 
> > > being flown at 150-175 meters.? 
> > > 
> > > YES = 71 NO = 100 RESULT = NO PROPOSED CHANGE . 
> > > 
> > > I had been advised that the existing selection-and-intent of the FAI 
> > > 150-metres rule was to create a relatively equal ease of visibility for 
> 2M 
> > > airplanes to the judges?? Whether that was true or not I admit to being 
> > > very surprised when the idea was rejected so soundly by the survey 
> > > respondents. 
> > > 
> > > I had been thinking that the smaller planes would fare better if they 
> were 
> > > flown in a bit closer. Our rough math had shown that a 60-72" airplane 
> > > would 
> > > look just about right at 100-110-M. 
> > > 
> > > What would the difference be for a 2-M airplane and a 1.5-M airplane if 
> > > flown at their relative distances? 
> > > 
> > > I also thought that the budding but slower electric planes of the day 
> > > could 
> > > use the closer in option and need less extreme (read expensive) power 
> > > systems. 
> > > 
> > > Regards, 
> > > 
> > > Eric. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "John Ferrell" 
> > > To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
> > > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 4:46 PM 
> > > Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the 
> > > futureofthePattern Event? 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >> There is no need to worry about rules changes at this time. 
> > >> 
> > >> Those of us dabbling with smaller planes are doing it with the existing 
> > >> rules. If winning trophies and satisfying judging problems are at the 
> top 
> > >> of 
> > >> your needs you will probably be best served with whatever is percieved 
> as 
> > >> the latest & greatest equipment. 
> > >> 
> > >> I have two boxes of trophies out in the shed. The smaller box is from 
> > >> when 
> > >> nobody better showed up. The larger box is from events that did not get 
> > >> enough attendance to give away the trophies. I don't have strong 
> feelings 
> > >> about either box! 
> > >> 
> > >> I just want to fly more and enjoy it more. Right now that appears to be 
> > >> with 
> > >> a little smaller airplane! 
> > >> 
> > >> John Ferrell W8CCW 
> > >> "My Competition is not my enemy" 
> > >> http://DixieNC.US 
> > >> 
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >> From: "george w. kennie" 
> > >> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" 
> > >> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 10:40 PM 
> > >> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Small Models ... good for the future 
> > >> ofthePattern Event? 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >>> Deano, 
> > >>> When you reference " changing the shape of the event ", how deep are 
> you 
> > >>> suggesting things go? Are we losing sight of the fact that we are 
> part 
> > >>> of 
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> _______________________________________________ 
> > >> NSRCA-discussion mailing list 
> > >> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
> > >> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 
> > >> 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > NSRCA-discussion mailing list 
> > > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
> > > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > NSRCA-discussion mailing list 
> > NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
> > http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list 
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.nsrca.org/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/attachments/20070106/69c3e8eb/attachment-0001.html 


More information about the NSRCA-discussion mailing list