[NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

Thu Dec 13 08:49:59 AKST 2007

Wayne

Since you live near me you do not count....when you visit your sister stop 
by and I will tell you.....

Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon

"wgalligan" <wgalligan at att.net> 
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
12/13/2007 11:28 AM
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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re:  Off topic

NICE Dwayne....

Yes Gray lets hear it for the tube amp vs P/A amp.   I wanna know.

WG
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dwayne Brown 
To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' 
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

I’m gonna listen to my ES335 thru my Princeton amp I bought in 1964 then 
maybe I’ll plug into my Fender Dual Reverb with my PRS or my Les Paul Jr I 
bought in 1957.  Tone!!!  Dwayne

-----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of wgalligan
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:17 AM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

Once again... Gray bends the envelope on his vast infinite wealth of 
useful knowledge.

Thanks for that audio bit of brain food.... now back to my $99.00 12 Gauge 
practice amp.  (Wishing that I had a full blown tube amp  from the 70's)

WG...

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Gray E Fowler 
To: NSRCA Mailing List 
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re: Off topic

I have tried to stay out of this as it could become old guy vs young guy, 
but then again I am no longer young..... 

As an ex muscian I have recorded about 25 original songs and the 
interesting thing is that my recording time frame spans the cross over of 
analog to digital, that is 1985 to about 1995. 

Led Zeps "Whole Lotta Love" is not record groove bleed over, but is called 
tape print through. That's where a freshly recorded magnetic impression 
transfers through the back side of the tape onto a place it does not 
belong-one reel revolution. To alleviate this tapes are to be stored 
"tails out" which the recording engineer obviously forgot to do...in 1969. 
So that has to be the coolest recording accident of all time. 

I have known many home listening "audiophiles" in my life, some I would 
call friends. I was always amazed at the money that they spent on their 
home systems that was at times more than what it would cost to put in a 
"studio" system. As a professional musician and a professional sound man, 
the entire idea of recording in a studio was to make your guitar or the 
drums sound like YOUR guitar, or your drums. When I stood in front of my 
Marshall tube amp cranked up to 11, I wanted that sound on my final 
product-be it a record or digital recording. (Pehaps I will discuss guitar 
tube amps and the reason for their existence at a later date). I cannot 
begin to explain how difficult that task actually is. I will say it is 
much easier now days. 

Analog recoding studios really sounded good. 2" wide 24 track tape 
spinning at 30 inches per second. That is what it took to keep the tape 
noise level low and to get the most accurate reproduction AND each machine 
and tape brand had to be calibrated before each recording session to 
ensure accuracy. Remember, what you are listening to is what the muscian 
wants you to hear, so audiophiles and listeners do not even get a vote yet 
on sound quality. 
The 2" tape 24 track  "Master"changed my guitar sound a bit. Then that was 
mixed down to stereo 1/2 track 1/4" tape format called "Half Track 
Master". That change my guitar sound a bit more, but still okay. The Half 
Track Master then is sent to a pressing plant to make the actual vinyl 
record. First you had to find a pay an expert "Master-er" to get to vinyl. 
This guy held you and your recording by the Nards. Why? Because analog 
vinyl technolgy was so screwed up. The Half track master that sounded 
great in the recording studio had to be Re-equalized by this record 
master-er to compensate for his equipment and how he knew it would change 
your recording-that you just spent $5000 on. It also had to be compressed 
(musically not like MP3-more later) so it would not violate groove and 
needle physical capabilities. If the Master-man sucked or did not care, so 
did your record. If you were a big time rock star (I was not), then you 
could hire Bob Ludwig, and he would make 5-6 wax pressings so the musician 
could hear what he changed and choose what they liked best. Me I had to 
take what I could get. In reality very few muscians ever approved of their 
vinyl recordings because they sounded so different from what they put down 
in the studio. 
 Yet old audiophiles with their Harmonically distorted tube amps and super 
crappy damping factors, needles that once again change the sound and wear 
the grooves down, changing the sound, and worst of all "colored" speakers 
tailored so any fool got a decent balance of bass and highs, claim 
superiority-calling this "warmth". 

Digital Mixers, with digital recording and digital media by far produce 
the truest reproduction of what the muscian intended. What I discovered 
when I recorded digital was that what used to sound "full-warm" was in 
fact much less accurate. The "full-warm" sound that was missing was 
harmonic crap that filled up the spaces in the mix. What you could then do 
with digital is add more musical parts to fill the gaps and you could hear 
all  the detail. Listen to Led Zep records, then listen to a Led Zep CD 
which was taken straight from the Half Track stereo master. One thing that 
you will notice right away on CD is how much reverb is present on the CD 
that you cannot hear on a vinyl record. I used to think as I bought CDS 
that the CD has reverb added on top of the original recording. Not so, it 
is just that it is 2X louder because the vinyl cannot reproduce such a 
subtle sound. 

Digital compression like MP3 .....is DATA compression that is uncompressed 
before it becomes ear capable analog. Records "Squashed" compressed music 
volume for needle physical reasons, Radio uses "infinite" volume 
compression-to appear louder than other stations and to keep from 
violating broadcast bandwidth-even worse....but hey, my brother thinks 
radio sounds great...he must be an audiophile..... 

Also...On Monday I am going back to the recording studio..first time in 12 
years. I am making the studio pull out and dust off their antique 1/2 
track analog machine (an the studio had to calibrate it-as usual). I have 
about 10-11 songs that were mastered a on 1/2 track tape and guess what..I 
and going to burn some digital copies. My first album was so F-up by the 
vinyl record  that I look forward to hearing what I actually recorded in 
1985...... 

Merry Christmas Pattern dudes........ 

Gray Fowler
Senior Principal Chemical Engineer
Radomes and Specialty Apertures
Technical Staff Composites Engineering
Raytheon 

Bob Richards <bob at toprudder.com> 
Sent by: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
12/12/2007 08:41 PM 

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Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Gov'ment Job.......was: Re:  Off topic

IMHO, although the "warmth" of a tube amp is desireable to most people, it 
is, in fact, a type of distortion. 

I have a collection of vinyl, but prefer to use CDs. Kinda hard to keep 
the needle from skipping while driving to work. :-) 

Remember the one Led Zepplin song where the adjacent grooves "bled" over 
when the album was pressed? Never would have happened with digital. ;-) 

Bob R. 

twtaylor <twtaylor at ftc-i.net> wrote: 
You’ve obviously never heard a good system then Matt.  J 

Vinyl is still MUCH better than any CD. Also one must have tubes for the 
warmth that transistors can never match. 
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