[NSRCA-discussion] Masters vs FAI

Sat Aug 18 00:25:06 AKDT 2007

Amen, Mike.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Hester" <kerlock at comcast.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters vs FAI

> Haven't we all been there to some extent? (Some of us more than others?)
>
> There is a difference between stating opinion and calling masters pilots
> "sandbaggers". I just found it odd that a sportsman was taking exception
> with it, and yet not a single masters pilot agreed with the idea. Not one,
> that I am aware of.
>
> I would be upset if Glen or Arch felt prssured to move to FAI just because
> of thier sucess in masters. I intend to practice my rear end off for the 
> 08
> nats, and if I don't have Glen and Arch as a reference, how do I really 
> know
> where I stack up? I wouldn't consider it winning if by some miracle I won
> the class and Arch and Glen weren't there to measure with. But if they ARE
> there and I get like 12th or something, that just lets me know I have that
> much more to work on before I should even consider FAI.
>
> With all that being said, I LIKE the fact that I can move back and forth
> freely between masters and FAI. Locally next year I plan to fly both,
> whenever and however the mood strikes me. If I want to try to break 900
> against jason, I can fly FAI. (I can dream right?) And if I want to see if 
> I
> can do a top 5 or win on a good outing, I can fly masters. Many others 
> feel
> the same way.
>
> I will say this; having Jason flying locally in your district does change
> your goals a bit =) Not only is he a great guy, but beating Jason would be
> world wide news if it ever happened for anyone. From what I've seen over 
> the
> last couple of years....good luck with that!
>
> Once you get to masters, you're "there", whether you like it or not. I see
> masters as a true AMA destination class where the common pilot (to whom 
> this
> is a HOBBY) can fly against the best in his level of participation. I 
> agree
> wholeheartedly with Glen that masters needs to get a lot more credit than
> they get, and more attention. I watched the flying of masters AND FAI at 
> the
> nats this year, and guess what? In my opinion, the BEST flights came from
> Glen and Arch...and that includes everyone I saw in FAI, with the 
> exception
> of that Jesky animal. I admit I saw more masters flights than FAI, but 
> there
> was a LOT more polish on the masters side in a lot of cases. This is a
> GENERAL observation. Everybody has good flights and not so good (like if 
> you
> saw my 5th round....please, please erase that one from your memory LOL)
>
> In a lot of cases, you can learn as much, and sometimes even more from a
> GOOD masters pilot than an FAI pilot. Take the late jim Ivey for
> instance....that guy tought me more than I could ever remember. he could
> tell you 10 ways to do any given manuever, and 4 ways to cheat if it 
> wasn't
> working (if you take exception to that statement, just replace the word
> "cheat" with "use a different tactic").
>
> Glen, don't feel pressure to move to FAI. Only do that if it's what YOU 
> WANT
> TO DO. I'm sure you'll hear the word "sandbagger" in jest quite a few 
> times
> (I'm sure Dave Snow did LOL) but you and Arch and a few others are what 
> make
> masters what it is!!!!
>
> -Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2007 10:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More 
> flexibilityinclassselection?-->Personal
> dilemma, what to do next season
>
>
>> Yeah, and I found him to be an extremely SMART buggar !!!!  I didn't 
>> agree
>> with him on everything, but most of the time I learned something from his
>> posts. Too bad his sensitivity level was so easily inflamed, but then I
>> think I've been there on occasion.
>> G.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility
>> inclassselection?-->Personal dilemma, what to do next season
>>
>>
>>>I look on this situation as one in which a guy who was seriously
>>> interested in Pattern development went "off the deep end" because he
>>> perceived that his ideas were totally rejected.  What a #$@! shame!
>>> I don't know him, but he obviously cared a lot about what he wrote.
>>>
>>> Ron Van Putte
>>>
>>> On Aug 16, 2007, at 7:44 PM, Gene Maurice wrote:
>>>
>>>> Somebody needs a little more fiber in their diet. :<)
>>>>
>>>> Gene Maurice
>>>> gene.mauirce at sgmservice.com
>>>> Plano, Texas
>>>> AMA 3408 NSRCA 877
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Fred
>>>> Huber
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:41 PM
>>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in
>>>> classselection?-->Personal dilemma, what to do next season
>>>>
>>>> Be elitist
>>>>
>>>> Masters know everything
>>>>
>>>> no one else's opinions are worth a crap
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter that I;ve been flying RC 30 years
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter that I've been building with balsa since I was 7 and
>>>> my FIRST
>>>>
>>>> HOME DESIGNED PLANE flew just fine... when I was 10
>>>>
>>>> I know nothing
>>>>
>>>> I'm "Just a Sportsman"
>>>>
>>>> bye
>>>>
>>>> Cancel my NSRCA membership
>>>>
>>>> I won't be at the nexst contest
>>>>
>>>> I won't be helping at the next local contest (which I have been
>>>> doing every
>>>> year I have been in the local club.)
>>>>
>>>> I won't support Pattern any more in any way.
>>>>
>>>> And... I'll have my name pulled from this e-mail list before you can
>>>> answer... AND DON'T e-mail "back channel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Matthew Frederick" <mjfrederick at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 6:27 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>> selection?-->Personal dilemma, what to do next season
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Glen didn't write that, George did. George is an intermediate
>>>>> pilot. He is
>>>>> in no way an elitist, but he is just as offended by the sandbagging
>>>>> comment
>>>>> as everyone else who knows Arch and Glen. It has nothing to do with
>>>>> "political correctness" like Fred tried to say. It has more to do
>>>>> with how
>>>>> difficult it is to get your point across if you're trying to speak
>>>>> through
>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> size 11 Nike. (Foot in mouth for those having trouble with that).
>>>>>
>>>>> Matt
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Pete Cosky" <pcosky at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 1:49 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>> selection? -->Personal dilemma, what to do next season
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't fly masters but I'll be pissed if you let some newbie
>>>>>>> Sportsman's
>>>>>>> comments keep you from defending your Masters National
>>>>>>> Championship. <
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Glen,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am sure you didn't mean anything by it, but comments like that
>>>>>> cause
>>>>>> people to think that pattern pilots are elitists. I don't care who a
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> is or if they even fly pattern at all; everyone is entitled to their
>>>>>> opinion. I do not agree with Fred, but I sure will let him
>>>>>> express his
>>>>>> opinion without casting dispersions on him or his current class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We want to not only keep the people we have, including sportsman,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> attract new blood and in my opinion making comments like the one
>>>>>> above
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> nothing to help the sport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pete
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: <glmiller3 at suddenlink.net>
>>>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:00
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>> selection? -->
>>>>>> Personal dilemma, what to do next season
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Glen,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't fly masters but I'll be pissed if you let some newbie
>>>>>>> Sportsman's
>>>>>>> comments keep you from defending your Masters National
>>>>>>> Championship.  I
>>>>>>> love watching you fly and frankly, I hope that you'll still be in
>>>>>>> Masters
>>>>>>> when and/or if I ever get there to fly against you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've deleted several messages before I sent them to this thread
>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> didn't want to add fuel to the fire, but I'm really tired of people
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to fix a problem that doesn't exist.  Masters is the top of the AMA
>>>>>>> pyramid and FAI is the international competition.  There isn't a
>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>> problem with people sandbagging - at least none that I've seen
>>>>>>> in D6
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> year.  So lets get over this and get on with having fun!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see any of the guys that you are actually competing
>>>>>>> against that
>>>>>>> have a problem with you defending your title!  If you want to go
>>>>>>> FAI,
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> please do, but make it your decision and of course you can
>>>>>>> always fly
>>>>>>> Masters AND FAI at different contests.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On a different note, if your cruise gets rained out by the
>>>>>>> storms headed
>>>>>>> for the Gulf- I hope that you'll make it over to our contest<G>!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> George
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---- Glen Watson <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Wow -- this thread and others has become very personal and
>>>>>>>> packed with
>>>>>>>> emotionally based comments.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My recent success at the NATS has become bitter-sweet full of
>>>>>>>> highs and
>>>>>>>> lows
>>>>>>>> on what I should do next.  The rules state that I can return to
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> NATS
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> defend my National Championship if I so desire.  I'm asking
>>>>>>>> myself is
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> such a bad thing.  Well a few have voiced their opinions that
>>>>>>>> it would
>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>> I'm wondering if that is a personal feeling or are they
>>>>>>>> thinking what's
>>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>>> for the pattern community as a whole?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My goals for the sport are simple. First to have fun competing,
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> includes giving back to the sport in some manner.  Second is to
>>>>>>>> be as
>>>>>>>> competitive as I can.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Giving back falls in a couple of categories:
>>>>>>>> 1) Sharing my knowledge and experience with others to help them
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> fun
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> be competitive in this sport.
>>>>>>>> 2) Work with equipment supplier/manufacture to develop and promote
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> product offerings to the pattern community for us to enjoy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The question I ask myself is can I do both if I move to FAI?
>>>>>>>> The short
>>>>>>>> answer is yes, however what influence would I have if I was a
>>>>>>>> middle of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> pack FAI competitor?  IMHO top level Masters competitors should
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> influence on equipments trends.  Here in the US we are
>>>>>>>> fortunate to
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> large group of national level competitors who would benefit
>>>>>>>> from having
>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>> options and diversity in their equipment choices.  From my vantage
>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>> currently only the top FAI class flyers world wide have the most
>>>>>>>> influence
>>>>>>>> over the market.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Many of us (me included) buy the exact equipment the top FAI
>>>>>>>> competitors
>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>> to win their respective National events or the Worlds.  I feel
>>>>>>>> there is
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> opportunity for the top US Masters competitors to have a similar
>>>>>>>> effect.
>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>> good example of this is the collaboration between Hester and
>>>>>>>> Stafford.
>>>>>>>> Many
>>>>>>>> will benefit from having an obtainable design manufactured here
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> US
>>>>>>>> that's competitive against any of the foreign import designs
>>>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> the Masters level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My decision on what to do next season is still pending. If I
>>>>>>>> choose to
>>>>>>>> return to Masters next season I asked not to be viewed as a
>>>>>>>> sandbagger
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> as one who is for bettering the quality and enjoyment of the
>>>>>>>> sport.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~Glen
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>>> Hester
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:01 AM
>>>>>>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, I'm about to go out the door and do that novel thing we call
>>>>>>>> "flying"
>>>>>>>> (instead of typing). So, I'll be brief for now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You just blatantly called Arch Stafford a "sandbagger" because
>>>>>>>> he said
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>> goal was to win the nats in masters. You're right that it may
>>>>>>>> or may
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> ever happen, and he knows this all too well. You need practice,
>>>>>>>> skill,
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> proper equipment, coaching, and good old fashioned luck. He's
>>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>>> capable of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arch is right where he belongs, whether you like it or not, and
>>>>>>>> whether
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> agree or not. Have you ever seen him fly? I have, and he's a
>>>>>>>> masters
>>>>>>>> pilot.
>>>>>>>> One of the best. he got there by many many years of hard work and
>>>>>>>> paying
>>>>>>>> his
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dues. Yep he could fly FAI if he chose to, but to fly FAI on a
>>>>>>>> national
>>>>>>>> level requires a LOT of time that most people simply don't
>>>>>>>> have. You
>>>>>>>> can't
>>>>>>>> appreciate the difference until you try it yourself, in
>>>>>>>> competition,
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>> the practice field. it's DIFFERENT. The scoring is different, the
>>>>>>>> manuevers
>>>>>>>> are different, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like it or not, masters IS a destination class and I am almost
>>>>>>>> 100%
>>>>>>>> positive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> that will not change. I also believe it should stay this way.
>>>>>>>> FAI is a
>>>>>>>> choice, and I like choices. I don't hear any MASTERS pilots
>>>>>>>> complaining
>>>>>>>> about Arch or Glen or ?????? No, they like the competition, and
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> them as people.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Arch is a friend of mine and I sponsor him. There's a reason
>>>>>>>> for that.
>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>> break my back to help that guy, why? Because he'd do...and
>>>>>>>> does...the
>>>>>>>> same
>>>>>>>> for me, or anybody else. Calling any masters pilot a sandbagger is
>>>>>>>> unproductive, provocative and uncalled for. When their life and
>>>>>>>> thier
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> goals dictate the decision to move into FAI, let THEM make that
>>>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>>>> You want to kill pattern for good? Make long time masters
>>>>>>>> pilots have
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> move into FAI. It ain't gonna work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Fred Huber" <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:19 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He is the one who proclaimed that he was going to stay in the
>>>>>>>>> class
>>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> won a particular event... which how many people have EVER
>>>>>>>>> won?  Out
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>>> many who have competed?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sorry... the world does not owe anyone any particular trophy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You say he's second best... maybe thats the best he ever gets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Every other competitor who goes to the NATS and flys in
>>>>>>>>> Masters wants
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> the best too.  Most will NEVER make it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most would be damn glad to be called second best in this sport...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reality is not politically correct.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is not the special olympics where everyone gets the same
>>>>>>>>> trophy:
>>>>>>>>> "Participant"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Matthew Frederick" <mjfrederick at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:17 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>>>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fred,
>>>>>>>>>> The person who made the comment about not moving up until
>>>>>>>>>> winning
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Nats
>>>>>>>>>> was Arch Stafford. He's a very nice guy, and according to the
>>>>>>>>>> Nats
>>>>>>>>>> finish
>>>>>>>>>> this year, he's probably the second-best Masters pilot in the
>>>>>>>>>> nation.
>>>>>>>>>> He
>>>>>>>>>> wants to be the best before he moves up to F3A, it's a
>>>>>>>>>> personal goal
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> set and well within the bounds of the rules. Having met Arch,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> knowing
>>>>>>>>>> what a decent guy he is, I frankly take offense at you blatantly
>>>>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>>>>> him
>>>>>>>>>> out as a sandbagger. I don't know one person who flys Masters
>>>>>>>>>> in D6
>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>> would call him that, and those are the people he competes
>>>>>>>>>> with on a
>>>>>>>>>> regular
>>>>>>>>>> basis... There is currently no relevant points accumulation in
>>>>>>>>>> Masters
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> than for district championships as it is the highest level of
>>>>>>>>>> AMA
>>>>>>>>>> Pattern.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> completely agree with the point someone else made that stated we
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> force someone to a level of competition that is out of the
>>>>>>>>>> control
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> AMA Competition Regs. If I were ever in a situation that
>>>>>>>>>> forced me
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> move
>>>>>>>>>> into F3A competition, I'd probably stop flying pattern. Full
>>>>>>>>>> turnaround
>>>>>>>>>> patterns was a hard enough pill to swallow. F3A has too many
>>>>>>>>>> maneuvers
>>>>>>>>>> that,
>>>>>>>>>> while very beautiful when performed well, I don't personally
>>>>>>>>>> consider
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> precision aerobatics. Snaps and spins are enough of a stretch.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Matt
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Fred Huber" <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:56 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>>>>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No sour grapes here about not being able to win...  I don't
>>>>>>>>>>> ever
>>>>>>>>>>> expect
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> accumulate the points needed to force advancement from
>>>>>>>>>>> Sportsman.
>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>> hand-eye coordination just isn't there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The only way I'll take 3rd place in Sportsman is if there's
>>>>>>>>>>> only 2
>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>> flying.  I'm just in Pattern for the flight discipline...
>>>>>>>>>>> and to be
>>>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>>> people who can help me quit breaking airplanes.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I will probably move to Intermediate next year.. becaue I have
>>>>>>>>>>> learned
>>>>>>>>>>> almost as much as I can from the Sportman sequence.... I'll
>>>>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>>>>> DEAD
>>>>>>>>>>> LAST
>>>>>>>>>>> FOREVER.  I'll fly at the NATS in about 3 or 4 years too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I do see the hypocracy of people complaining about not being
>>>>>>>>>>> competitive
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> they move up... and sitting firmly in the lower class for
>>>>>>>>>>> years so
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> always win...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "I won't move up until I WIN the NATS" is why they came up
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>>>>>> system to force people to move up... sandbagger.  (not even
>>>>>>>>>>> bothering
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> look up who made the referenced post...)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The only way I'll take 3rd place in Sportsman is if there's
>>>>>>>>>>> only 2
>>>>>>>>>>> others
>>>>>>>>>>> flying.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I take offense at rules that are unfair.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I take offense at people who revise the rules to suit thier
>>>>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>>>>> agendas.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: <seefo at san.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>>>>>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I know Glen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My question was more rhetorical than anything else, and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> put it out there to try to clarify the issue. There seems
>>>>>>>>>>>> to be a
>>>>>>>>>>>> division amongst people who want Masters to be that
>>>>>>>>>>>> stepping stone
>>>>>>>>>>>> class verses those who want Masters to be a destination all by
>>>>>>>>>>>> itself
>>>>>>>>>>>> (which it currently is).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I do think the idea of a progression rule whereby a pilot
>>>>>>>>>>>> who does
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> meet a given criteria has the option of moving down. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> personally
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> the 'qualification' bar idea. For example, a pilot moves up to
>>>>>>>>>>>> Masters
>>>>>>>>>>>> from Advanced. In their 1st contest, if they are unable to
>>>>>>>>>>>> achieve
>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> AVERAGE normalized score of at least 800, they are given the
>>>>>>>>>>>> option
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> moving back to Advanced. The 800 number is arbitrary and
>>>>>>>>>>>> used for
>>>>>>>>>>>> example only.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess my biggest problem with these threads, is they give
>>>>>>>>>>>> me a
>>>>>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>>>>>> sense of sour grapes from people as I read them talk
>>>>>>>>>>>> continually
>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> not being able to win. Last I checked this was competition,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> want to win, you perfect your own flying until you can do it
>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>> than everyone else. You don't tell the guy beating you to
>>>>>>>>>>>> go play
>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhere else so you can feel good about yourself.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course I could be completely wrong. It wouldn't be the 1st
>>>>>>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>> (just ask my wife)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Doug
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Glen Watson <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:24 pm
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>>>>>>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no mandatory advancement from Masters...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following was copied from the current AMA rulebook...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8.2.5. There is no mandatory advancement into FAI from the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Masters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> class.Contestants may enter their current AMA class or the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> FAI
>>>>>>>>>>>>> class at any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> contest but not both.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~Glen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> seefo at san.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:51 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class
>>>>>>>>>>>>> selection?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems to me the real question that must be answered (yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> again)
>>>>>>>>>>>> is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is Masters a destination class or not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Doug
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>> 8/14/2007
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5:19 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
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>>>>> Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.0/957 - Release Date:
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>>>>> 1:46 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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