[NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?

rcpattern at stx.rr.com rcpattern at stx.rr.com
Wed Aug 15 19:21:35 AKDT 2007


Fred,

I didn't just magically wake up and suddenly finish in the top 8 in 
Masters.  The first year I flew masters, I finished 25th...then made 
the finals the next.  I have improved a little each year, except last 
year, when I had a mechanical problem in the finals.  I go out and 
practice as often as I can to improve.  I also try to do whatever I 
can to help anyone I can.  I had a LOT of help when I was learning and 
try to pass that along to others.  I love pattern, and love to do what 
I can to support it.  I have rebuilt engines for guys that I barely 
knew.  I have loaned guys planes, parts, whatever to get them in the 
air.  That is one thing about pattern that I love.  Guys will do 
whatever it takes to get you back in the air so you can compete 
against them.  Last year at the masters finals, I was running low on 
time trying to get my pipe system fixed and basically EVERY other 
competitor was trying to help, even offering to let me fly their 
planes to get the round in.  I'll be ho
nest, i've taken a little bit of offense to some of your statements.  
You have made it sound like I was handed everything I have, and just 
come back each year, waiting on someone to hand my NATS trophy.  You 
have yet to fly Masters, yet, you seem to know exactly what it takes 
to be competitive or the attitude of guys who fly it.  I unfortunately 
didnt get to fly near as much this year as I would have liked.  I know 
for a fact with the amount of practice I had this year, I'd have been 
hammered in FAI.  It is a totally different level.  I know Glen worked 
his tail off as well over the years.  As well as all of the other guys 
that have worked and worked to keep getting better. No one handed us 
top 2 finishes at the NATS, and just because we come back, doesnt 
guarrantee us anything.  This year, EVERYONE flew a new Masters 
sequence.  We had to go out and learn it just like everyone else did.  

Arch


----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net>
Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:58 pm
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>

> Why re-write (and possibly incorporate typos and other errors) 
> rules that can be gotten from another booklet (which is also 
> available for download from the AMA website...)
> 
> "included by reference" is a fairly common practice.
> 
> AMA rules don't go into defining what  kilogram or a pound is... 
> they figure you can look it up if you don't know.
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Ken Thompson 
>  To: NSRCA Mailing List 
>  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:27 PM
>  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class selection?
> 
> 
>  I see a numerical designation, for contests only, however there 
> are no rules, regulations or maneuver designations pertaining to 
> 406 in the AMA rule book, except that the FAI class will fly 
> according to the current FAI RC Aerobatics(F3A) rules.
>    ----- Original Message ----- 
>    From: Tim Taylor 
>    To: NSRCA Mailing List 
>    Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:01 PM
>    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> 
>    FAI is class 406, an AMA Class, Just checked the rule book.
> 
>     http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/rulebooks/RC%20Aerobatics.pdf
> 
>    Fred Huber <fhhuber at clearwire.net> wrote:
>      In that case... there's no support for offering FAI class at 
> an AMA sanctioned event.  
> 
>      Its not an AMA class.  Have a seperate contest.
> 
>      That worm turns 2 ways.
>        ----- Original Message ----- 
>        From: Ken Thompson 
>        To: NSRCA Mailing List 
>        Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:57 PM
>        Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?
> 
>        The bottom line is this...the AMA has 4 classes, the top 
> level being Masters.  FAI is an international F3A class, not a AMA 
> class..."in my opinion" there can never be a mandatory progression 
> from an AMA SIG class to an international class.
> 
>        As for your question, my logic should, and does, apply to 
> every class controlled by the AMA...which is what I'm talking about.
> 
>        Ken
>          ----- Original Message ----- 
>          From: John Gayer 
>          To: NSRCA Mailing List 
>          Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:38 PM
>          Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in 
> class selection?
> 
> 
>          Why does this apply to every class except Masters?? 
>          Aren't there better flyers available to learn from in 
> FAI?  :)
>          John
> 
>          Ken Thompson wrote: 
> Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!!    You will only get better 
> if you do one of two things,    1.  Fly against people that are 
> better than you, obviously paying attention   to their flights.    
> 2.  Have a pilot that is better than you willing to coach you.    
> I've been blessed with having both...any contest I go to in D6 
> will have   pilots that are better  than I am, and I have Archie 
> as a coach to help me through the little   things.    BTW:  I 
> fully expect to be flying Masters in 6 or 7 years.  That will put 
> me   at 54 or 55 years old when I make the move.    Personally I 
> have no desire to go to contests and come in 1st or 2nd on a   
> regular basis, AND stay in that  class...it simply won't make me a 
> better pilot.  My goal is to
> get better   every year, with hard work and patience,  it will 
> happen.    Ken      ----- Original Message -----   From: 
> <rcpattern at stx.rr.com>  To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-
> discussion at lists.nsrca.org>  Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:55 
> PM  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] More flexibility in class 
> selection?        I take exception to this.  FAI and Masters are 
> not related.  I have  been flying masters several years, finishing 
> as high as second this  year at the NATS.  Yes, I'm coming back 
> next year in Masters.  I have  a goal of winning the nats before I 
> move up.  I can be realistic...at  some point with enough practice 
> I might be able to crack the finals in  FAI at the NATS, but I'm 
> smart enough to know that realistically  winning FAI isnt going to 
> happen.  I
> would also argue that the guys  that have been flying masters for 
> years, just raise the bar.  I know  in different areas I've flown 
> around the country, these are the guys  that make guys fly better. 
> Show up in District 6 sometime, and fly  Masters...you'll 
> definitely get better.  6 of the top 10 at the NATS  were D6.  The 
> means, guy that finished in the top 10 at the NATS in  what is 
> probably top to bottom the most competitive class have trouble  
> getting wood at a local contest.  I can promise you though, the 
> guys  that fly here have greatly  improved their flying than they 
> would have in other parts of the  country.  Glen has set the bar 
> here for a while, and I know the other  guys are pushing to catch 
> him, and if you look now at local contest  scores, it is getting 
> closer.  At any given time down here in D6, I'd  say 6 or 7 guys 
> can take a round in masters.  Now that makes it fun. I  know when 
> I was flying in D4 last year.  Every contest I went to, was  Verne 
> K, and
> Steve Miller....I knew I'd better put up great flights  every 
> flight and this makes you a better pilot.  I think you should  try 
> moving up...take a year of the low 900's, and then see where you  
> are the following year.  I bet you start moving up and before you 
> know  it you would be right there in the mix.  This is a 
> competitive  activity and the only way you improve is flying 
> against people who are  better than you.    Arch      ----- 
> Original Message -----  From: John Gayer <jgghome at comcast.net>  
> Date: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 pm  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-
> discussion] More flexibility in class selection?  To: NSRCA 
> Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>        Ron,  I 
> take exception to those rules. There should be only one  
> destination  class. Why shouldn't
> there be a mandatory move from Masters to  F3A? They  are just 
> two patterns with a natural progression as there is  between  
> Advanced and Masters.  Parking and sandbagging is a mental state, 
> not a rules violation.  john    Ron Van Putte wrote:          The 
> Master class is the top AMA class and there is no mandatory        
>  move        from the Master class to F3A, so how can there be 
> "parkers" or  "sandbaggers"?    Ron Van Putte    On Aug 15, 2007, 
> at 2:10 PM, John Gayer wrote:            how about changing the 
> AMA advancemant rule and keep it very            simple?>> Your 
> first contest of the year will determine your class  for the       
> year. You may go up one class at any time during
> the year but            may not        go back down during the 
> year. At the start of the next year you            may        drop 
> back one class at your option, stay where you are or go up         
>   a class.        This is simple enough that your fellow 
> competitiors will know            if you        are following the 
> rules. It will also be up to your fellow  competitiors to insure 
> that you are not sandbagging.  I also feel strongly that 
> sandbagging in Masters should not be  allowed. If you disregard 
> Sportsman, then
> half of the classes            allow        parking. Obviously, 
> F3A has to be a parking lot but I see no            reason        
> to allow this behavior in Masters. As a competant advanced         
>   pilot of        somewhat advanced years, I have very little 
> interest in moving            to        Masters in order to spend 
> the rest of my pattern years trying            to        break 900 
> against the
> parkers.  I fail to see the logic in having two destination 
> classes.            Shouldn't        we all aspire to progress to 
> FAI? The current Masters schedule            is        designed as 
> a stepping stone to Masters. Let's use it that way.    John Gayer  
> NSRCA 632      BUDDYonRC at aol.com wrote:              There was a 
> proposal on the last rules cycle that would allow              a   
>     person to move up and test his ability then move back if he   
>          
> had not        attained the skills required for the higher class. 
> I              personally        think it is a good idea and I 
> also see no need for the point              system        like 
> someone said if someone abuses the privilege we can              
> solicit        Earl and four other guys his size to take him 
> behind the barn             
> and        splain to him why he will be moving up. I believe peer 
>             pressure is        all the control we need.  I think 
> this is worth a try.  For those who have the ability and desire to 
> achieve a spot at              the        top I don't see that we 
> have a problem.  Buddy        -------------------------------------
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