[NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequencediscussionagain...

Tue Aug 14 06:51:34 AKDT 2007

I started to write something very similar, Mike, but got distracted, glad 
you did all of the typing.
I have to also agree with this logic, it would be easy to point out in 1 
year if you fly in one of the districts that has a lot of competitors in a 
given class.  Being at the top few of your class, in your district, you 
could easily accumulate a ton of points.  Now couple that with the fact that 
a given pilot has the ability to attend a lot of contests that year, almost 
guarantees reaching 100 points.

Does that mean he or she is ready to move up?

Maybe one way of adjusting the current point system would be to limit the 
number of contests that would count towards your total each year, similar to 
how many of the district championships are counted.

Just a thought...

Ken
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Hester" <kerlock at comcast.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 
2009Sequencediscussionagain...

>I like that idea. I don't think anyone could call "sandbagging" on one 
>year.
>
> I've never really seen this as a problem anyway. (sandbagging) Maybe in
> another time and place it was a problem of some kind, but nowadays, I just
> don't see it. Peer pressure is a wonderful thing. You KNOW if somebody
> "should" move up, and they do too.
>
> In Jon's case I know exactly what he means. He's a fantastic pilot no 
> doubt.
> But having just moved to masters myself, from the OLD advanced pattern 
> (MUCH
> more difficult), I can see clearly exactly what he's looking at. It's not
> too far from moving from intermediate to masters. And what I HATE is that
> because of an arbitrary points system, he feels he has to sit out some
> really fantastic contests coming up the rest of this year, and we don't 
> get
> his company.
>
> I do really think the points system needs to be looked at again. It was
> written in another time when the average contest attendance was different,
> with a number of other things. Here's the rub. You go to a contest, and 
> the
> guys you normally compete against are not there. For whatever reason, you
> get a lot of entrants in your class that have been out of pattern for a
> while, SPA pilots just playing with something different, and in general, a
> lot of people that you are going to beat. But in relation to what you
> normally fly against, it's not the same.
>
> Now you win of course, and get 3x the points. OOPS!!! if that happens a 
> few
> times, you're pointed right into the next class, where you just aren't
> ready....yet. People learn at different rates. Some hot dogs spend one
> season in each class, dominating all the way to the top. And some others
> just take more time and need to spend more than one season (sometimes more
> than 2) to break the barriers of the more complicated stuff. The
> contributing factors are time to devote to practice, sometimes age, 
> personal
> learning ability, coaching or lack thereof, and just plain luck.
>
> However the way it is set up, the guy that spends the money and time to go
> to the most contests (and hence a VERY valuable asset to pattern in 
> general)
> is at a severe disadvantage if he is not one of the one class per year 
> guys.
> This sucks.
>
> That's my 2 cents, and I'm not positive what the answer is.
>
> -Mike
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com>
> To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2007 10:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
> discussionagain...
>
>
>> Could I fly it, sure.  But have I gotten what I need out of advanced?
>> Not in my opinion.  Until I can nail a 4 point roll every time, until I
>> can nail the rolling triangle every time, until I learn how to hand
>> outside snap in the avalanch, I don't feel I'm ready.  I gauged my self
>> against the best the Nats had to offer in advanced, and I proved to
>> myself I'm not ready.
>>
>> I was one of those who entered my first AMA Sportsman contest at the
>> end of the season, and won, due to a variety of reasons, but mailnly
>> due the District points leader having engine problems.  I had to move
>> up to intermediate, but I still hadn't gotten the basics down.  I
>> struggled the first year, but did better and won the district
>> championship the second.
>>
>> I've got an idea about the points that would make things easier:  Leave
>> the total at 100, but say a competitor can stay in a particular class
>> at least two years in spite of his points total.  That would take care
>> of the large district problem, but force a move after two years if the
>> competitor pointed out.
>>
>>
>> Jon Lowe
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dr. Mike Harrison <drmikedds at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tue, 14 Aug 2007 7:26 am
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>> discussionagain...
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon,
>> Fly Masters after this year.  You can do it.
>>
>> Mike
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jon Lowe" <jonlowe at aol.com>
>> To: <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 3:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>> discussionagain...
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Glen,
>>> You are spot on.  I have competed in Advanced just this season, and
>>> have 70 points with several district contests left in 2007.  I
>> finished
>>> 5th at the Nats, but was never really in contention to finish higher.
>>> District 3 has a lot of competitors in advanced.  I'm a decent but not
>>> great pilot in advanced right now, so I've gathered more points than I
>>> would have in a smaller district. Do I feel at all ready to move to
>>> Masters?  Absolutely not.  Therefore, I am going to sit out contests
>>> this year so I don't point out.  Or I might fly the FAI P07 at a
>> couple
>>> of contests just for giggles.  The jump right now between Advanced and
>>> Masters is just too big right now for me, and the current advanced
>>> pattern does not properly prepare you for Masters.
>>>
>>> Jon Lowe
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Glen Watson <gwatson11 at houston.rr.com>
>>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>> Sent: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:43 am
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the Masters 2009Sequence
>>> discussionagain...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is the issue that competitors are forced by the current AMA
>> regulations
>>> to
>>> move up thru the classes via a point system whether a competitor feels
>>> ready
>>> or not?
>>>
>>> Just mastering a maneuver is not enough.  Being able to manage
>>> positioning
>>> throughout an entire sequence regardless of weather conditions is a
>>> major
>>> task which becomes more challenging as maneuver complexity and
>>> difficultly
>>> increases.  A good example is the Figure M.  I witnessed many
>>> competitors
>>> during the prelims at the NATS not able to sustain proper track and
>>> positioning in the cross/quartering winds we experienced. They would
>>> begin
>>> at 150-175 meters and finish at 80 meters from being blown in.
>>> Practice can
>>> address this however as I read here in previous posts not all have the
>>> time
>>> they wish to practice.
>>>
>>> The current point system for Intermediate and Advanced is based on a 4
>>> year
>>> cumulative total although one could point out in a single year from
>>> attending enough well attended contests. A potential issue here in
>>> District
>>> 6 for example. Does this make someone ready for the next class?
>>>
>>> If a pattern enthusiast has limited time to enable them to be
>>> comfortable
>>> flying a particular class why make it mandatory to move up.  If the
>>> point
>>> system criterion was revised in such a manner to reset each year and
>>> force
>>> only top consistent place finishers to move up that would provide more
>>> time
>>> for those with limit time to hone the skills necessary to be
>> comfortable
>>> moving on to the next class.  In addition I feel this raises the
>>> competitive
>>> bar in Intermediate and Advanced having more experience competitors
>>> within
>>> the ranks.
>>>
>>> Glen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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