[NSRCA-discussion] StirringuptheMasters2009Sequencediscussionagain...

Fred Huber fhhuber at clearwire.net
Mon Aug 13 20:32:59 AKDT 2007


If we attempted a national database system such as this...

We'd need a REAL way to "normalize" judge's scores....

One juge might tend to be more critical than another and all who fly in 
front of him may score an average of 1 point lower per maneuver than people 
flying in front of another ... somewhat lenient judge.

If that happens at a single contest, where every pilot flys in front of both 
judges... the system works as is.

If a guy at one contest flys against the "tough judge" and a guy at another 
contest flys against the "easy judge"... then you put those numbers into the 
national database... you end up with the very real possibility of the lesser 
pilot having a better score.

You can normalize scores in a contest for giving awards at that contest... 
but the normalized results going into the national databse might be 
absolutely meaningless without the ability to compare how different judees 
tend to score the same flight.

You'd have to hold some VERY long detailed judge's training sessions with 
each judge having to score THE SAME flights seen on a video... and because 
people change as they mature... you;d have to recertify and re-evaluate 
their scoring tendancies on a regular basis.

(Too much like work in my opinion)


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Koenig, Tom" <Tom.Koenig at actewagl.com.au>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: 
[NSRCA-discussion]StirringuptheMasters2009Sequencediscussionagain...


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>
> Again..... I see a case for using a 'National Average score', obtained, 
> da=
> re I say it, from FAI class.=20
> =20
> Maybe there is a cultural reason for this not working in the US, but 
> consid=
> ering today's technology, I see no reason why CD's could not feed back 
> thei=
> r contest scores into a 'central' database', which could then be used to 
> ob=
> tain the required information?
> =20
> =20
> Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bou=
> nces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Fred Huber
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:04 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 
> StirringuptheMasters2009Sequencediscussiona=
> gain...
>
>
> My idea regarding the "Pointing out" needing modification is a much more 
> mi=
> nor change...
> =20
> At least make it take a minimum of 2 contests to force advancement.  Just 
> o=
> ne win in the only contest a guy has ever flown in... can now mean thats 
> th=
> e only contest the guy ever bothers with.
> =20
> If you want to force people to move up rather than "sandbagging"... fine. 
> =
> I would hardly call a guy winning ONCE and then staying at the same level 
> s=
> andbagging.
> =20
> What happens if you get a "new crop" of Pattern flyers... and the whole 
> gro=
> up flying Sportsman are at their first contest.. and there's a dozen in 
> the=
> class?  You want to force the top 3 in Sportsman at that contest up? =20
> =20
> IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Earl Haury <mailto:ejhaury at comcast.net> =20
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> =20
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring 
> uptheMasters2009Sequencediscussion=
> again...
>
> Buddy
> =20
> What TW & I are suggesting is that a fix for the large step between 
> Advance=
> d and Masters seems appropriate and are offering one possible solution. 
> Alo=
> ng with that, I agree with you and Glen that there may need to be some 
> adju=
> stment to the points system.=20
> =20
> Consider that the point system for advancement addresses the primary issue 
> =
> of forcing advancement upon someone who has been successful so as to 
> provid=
> e "room at the top" for other competitors. A failing with this is that it 
> a=
> ssumes folks won't move voluntarily - most do, and often ill advised due 
> to=
> boredom in a specific class. Unfortunately, the system assumes everyone 
> wi=
> ll eventually need to move up. That's obviously not always the case and 
> som=
> e are faced with moving up or quitting - not a good choice! The ability to 
> =
> drop off points 4 years back helps the GOB - but possibly not in areas 
> with=
> lots of contests with large numbers of competitors. Maybe a limit on the 
> n=
> umber of points acquired in any one contest would help?
> =20
> So - the conversation is twofold, progression of difficulty within the 
> clas=
> ses being one topic and progression of competitors within the classes the 
> o=
> ther.
> =20
> Earl
> =20
> =20
> =20
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: twtaylor <mailto:twtaylor at ftc-i.net> =20
> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List' <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> =20
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up 
> theMasters2009Sequencediscussio=
> nagain...
>
>
> Hi Buddy
>
> =20
>
> I understand your point and I agree. Given the rules, as they are now, 
> prog=
> ression is a given. We can lobby to replace the advancement rules easily 
> en=
> ough. My point was to make FAI a destination class as imho it should be. 
> No=
> t taking anything away from the Master Pilots but the guy that can fly and 
> =
> win Masters can fly and win in FAI. Seems to me we have two nearly 
> identica=
> l classes and for what reason? What goal are we trying to achieve doing 
> thi=
> s? The goal of the entire sport is to advance a flier from beginner to at 
> l=
> east national/regional contender, no?  I understand the GOB deal. What we 
> d=
> id way back when was to really make FAI the top class, renamed Expert to 
> Ma=
> sters and called it an evening. Do I think Arch or Glenn could make the 
> fin=
> als in FAI at our Nats? You dang skippy I do. Can I win an FAI contests 
> loc=
> ally? Probably not this year but maybe next. IMHO The reason we see such a 
> =
> large turn out in Masters and not FAI is because many don't want to fly 
> aga=
> inst QQ and Chip and The Animal. Here's one to ponder.
>
> =20
>
> Jason goes to the worlds and wins the whole thing and makes us proud as we 
> =
> can be. Guess what?=20
>
> IIRC the current rules allow Jason to fly masters, oh wait, If memory 
> serve=
> s me Jason didn't point out of Advance he jumped straight from Advance to 
> F=
> AI. He could win the worlds then come home and fly his next contest in 
> Adva=
> nce. Wouldn't that cause a stir! I know he won't but he could. Back when I 
> =
> was flying Expert Turn Around and won pretty much every contest I entered, 
> =
> Kirk Grey decided to bring me down a peg or two,(Well actually 10 or so) 
> at=
> a contest in NC he dropped back from FAI to Expert. Taught me a great 
> less=
> on he did. (Said in my best Yoda voice.)  :-)
>
> =20
>
>
>  _____ =20
>
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org 
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bou=
> nces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of BUDDYonRC at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 5:20 PM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Stirring up the 
> Masters2009Sequencediscussi=
> onagain...
>
> =20
>
> TW
>
> You have missed the point. If you make FAI a destination class and apply 
> th=
> e progression rule it will definitely be a force which will in my opinion 
> r=
> educe our ranks.
>
> =20
>
> I don't think you understood my analysis of the location of the problem 
> whi=
> ch is entirely my opinion.
>
> I think like Glen Watson that progression should be based on ability to 
> per=
> form not on a series of events which in some cases have nothing to do with 
> =
> ability or performance.=20
>
> When we force advancement on a person who is not ready to move up due to 
> wh=
> at ever the case may be we are doing him an injustice and cutting off our 
> n=
> ose to spite our face.
>
> Be real we have the Pro's and those with similar ability who aspire to 
> join=
> that group and possibly be a world champion and push products for the 
> Hobb=
> y Industry=20
>
> Then we have the majority, the Good Old Boys which is most of us who buy 
> t=
> he stuff that the Pro group is pushing.
>
> The Good Old Boys just want to compete with each other progress according 
> t=
> o our ability, drink a few cool ones and generally enjoy our sport.=20
>
> The Top GOB is the one who wins Masters at the Nat's
>
> A GOB can jump the fence if he wants to and be a WC want to be and if he 
> do=
> esn't like the territory we will let him be a GOB again=20
>
> But with today's rules GOB's move up when the rules tell them to and 
> that'=
> s where some of our problems lie.
>
> I don't know how to express my opinion any simpler than that.
>
> Buddy=20
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  _____ =20
>
>
> Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com 
> <http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolc=
> om30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF00020000000982> .
>
>
>
>  _____ =20
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>
>
>
>  _____ =20
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion=20
>
>
>
>  _____ =20
>
>
>
>
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> link=3Dblue=
> =20
> bgColor=3D#ffffff leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D123210704-14082007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
> color=3D#0000ff>&nbsp;Again..... I see a case for using a 'National 
> Average=
> =20
> score', obtained, dare I say it, from FAI class. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D123210704-14082007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D123210704-14082007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
> color=3D#0000ff>Maybe there is a cultural reason for this not working in 
> th=
> e US,=20
> but considering today's technology, I see no reason why CD's could not 
> feed=
> back=20
> their contest scores into a 'central' database', which could then be used 
> t=
> o=20
> obtain the required information?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D123210704-14082007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D123210704-14082007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
> color=3D#0000ff></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><SPAN class=3D123210704-14082007><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20
> color=3D#0000ff>Tom</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT 
> face=3DTahom=
> a=20
> size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
> nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org=20
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Fred=
> =20
> Huber<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 14 August 2007 2:04 PM<BR><B>To:</B> NSRCA=
> =20
> Mailing List<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]=20
> StirringuptheMasters2009Sequencediscussionagain...<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>My idea regarding the "Pointing out" needing 
> modificati=
> on is a=20
> much more minor change...</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>At least make it take a minimum of 2 contests to 
> force=
> =20
> advancement.&nbsp; Just one win in the only contest a guy has ever flown 
> in=
> ...=20
> can now mean thats the only contest the guy ever bothers 
> with.</FONT></DIV>=
>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>If you want to force people to move up rather than=20
> "sandbagging"... fine.&nbsp; I would hardly call a guy winning ONCE and 
> the=
> n=20
> staying at the same level sandbagging.</FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>What happens if you get a "new crop" of Pattern 
> flyers.=
> .. and=20
> the whole group flying Sportsman are at their first contest.. and there's 
> a=
> =20
> dozen in the class?&nbsp; You want to force the top 3 in Sportsman&nbsp;at 
> =
> that=20
> contest up?&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>IT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.</FONT></DIV>
> <BLOCKQUOTE=20
> style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
> BORDER-LE=
> FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>  <DIV=20
>  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: 
> black"><B>Fro=
> m:</B>=20
>  <A title=3Dejhaury at comcast.net href=3D"mailto:ejhaury at comcast.net">Earl 
> H=
> aury</A>=20
>  </DIV>
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
>  title=3Dnsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org=20
>  href=3D"mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org">NSRCA Mailing List</A> 
> <=
> /DIV>
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 13, 2007 
> 4:55=
> =20
>  PM</DIV>
>  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion] 
> St=
> irring=20
>  uptheMasters2009Sequencediscussionagain...</DIV>
>  <DIV><BR></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Buddy</FONT></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>What TW &amp; I are suggesting is that 
> a=
> &nbsp;fix=20
>  for the large step between Advanced and Masters seems appropriate and 
> are=
> =20
>  offering one possible solution. Along with that, I agree with you and 
> Gle=
> n=20
>  that there may need to be some adjustment to the points system. 
> </FONT></=
> DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Consider that the point system for 
> advan=
> cement=20
>  addresses the primary issue of forcing advancement upon someone who has 
> b=
> een=20
>  successful so as to provide "room at the top" for other competitors. A 
> fa=
> iling=20
>  with this is that it assumes folks won't move voluntarily - most do, and 
> =
> often=20
>  ill advised due to boredom in a specific class. Unfortunately, the 
> system=
> =20
>  assumes everyone will eventually need to move up. That's obviously not 
> al=
> ways=20
>  the case and some are faced with moving up or quitting - not a good 
> choic=
> e!=20
>  The ability to drop off points 4 years back helps the GOB - but possibly 
> =
> not=20
>  in areas with lots of contests with large numbers of competitors. Maybe 
> a=
> =20
>  limit on the number of points acquired in any one contest would=20
>  help?</FONT></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>So - the conversation is twofold, 
> progre=
> ssion of=20
>  difficulty within the classes being one topic and progression of 
> competit=
> ors=20
>  within the classes the other.</FONT></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Earl</FONT></DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
>  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
>  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; 
> BORDER-=
> LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
>    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
>    <DIV=20
>    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: 
> black"><B>F=
> rom:</B>=20
>    <A title=3Dtwtaylor at ftc-i.net 
> href=3D"mailto:twtaylor at ftc-i.net">twtayl=
> or</A>=20
>    </DIV>
>    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
>    title=3Dnsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org=20
>    href=3D"mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org">'NSRCA Mailing 
> List'</=
> A>=20
>    </DIV>
>    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 13, 2007 
> 4:=
> 43=20
>    PM</DIV>
>    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]=
> =20
>    Stirring up theMasters2009Sequencediscussionagain...</DIV>
>    <DIV><BR></DIV>
>    <DIV class=3DSection1>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hi=20
>    Buddy<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
> /o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I 
> understand=
> your=20
>    point and I agree. Given the rules, as they are now, progression is a 
> g=
> iven.=20
>    We can lobby to replace the advancement rules easily enough. My point 
> w=
> as to=20
>    make FAI a destination class as imho it should be. Not taking anything 
> =
> away=20
>    from the Master Pilots but the guy that can fly and win Masters can 
> fly=
> and=20
>    win in FAI. Seems to me we have two nearly identical classes and for 
> wh=
> at=20
>    reason? What goal are we trying to achieve doing this? The goal of the=
> =20
>    entire sport is to advance a flier from beginner to at least=20
>    national/regional contender, no? &nbsp;I understand the GOB deal. What 
> =
> we=20
>    did way back when was to really make FAI the top class, renamed Expert 
> =
> to=20
>    Masters and called it an evening. Do I think Arch or Glenn could make 
> t=
> he=20
>    finals in FAI at our Nats? You dang skippy I do. Can I win an FAI 
> conte=
> sts=20
>    locally? Probably not this year but maybe next. IMHO The reason we see 
> =
> such=20
>    a large turn out in Masters and not FAI is because many don&#8217;t 
> wan=
> t to fly=20
>    against QQ and Chip and The Animal. Here&#8217;s one to=20
>    ponder.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
> /o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jason goes 
> t=
> o the=20
>    worlds and wins the whole thing and makes us proud as we can be. Guess 
> =
> what?=20
>    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">IIRC the 
> cur=
> rent=20
>    rules allow Jason to fly masters, oh wait, If memory serves me Jason 
> di=
> dn&#8217;t=20
>    point out of Advance he jumped straight from Advance to FAI. He could 
> w=
> in=20
>    the worlds then come home and fly his next contest in Advance. 
> Wouldn&#=
> 8217;t that=20
>    cause a stir! I know he won&#8217;t but he could. Back when I was 
> flyin=
> g Expert=20
>    Turn Around and won pretty much every contest I entered, Kirk Grey 
> deci=
> ded=20
>    to bring me down a peg or two,(Well actually 10 or so) at a contest in 
> =
> NC he=20
>    dropped back from FAI to Expert. Taught me a great lesson he did. 
> (Said=
> in=20
>    my best Yoda voice.) &nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DWingdings color=
> =3Dnavy=20
>    size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Wingdings">J</SPAN>=
> </FONT><FONT=20
>    face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial"><o:p></o:p><=
> /SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
> /o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <DIV>
>    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" 
> align=3Dcenter><FON=
> T=20
>    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
>    <HR tabIndex=3D-1 align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
>    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Tahoma">From:=
> </SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
>    face=3DTahoma size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Tah=
> oma">=20
>    nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org=20
>    [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] <B><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of=20
>    </SPAN></B>BUDDYonRC at aol.com<BR><B><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, August 13, 2007 
> 5:=
> 20=20
>    PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
>    nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<BR><B><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [NSRCA-discussion]=
> =20
>    Stirring up the=20
> 
> Masters2009Sequencediscussionagain...</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV=
>>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial">TW<o:p></o:=
> p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You have 
> mi=
> ssed=20
>    the point. If you make FAI a destination class and apply the 
> progressio=
> n=20
>    rule&nbsp;it will definitely be a force which will in my opinion 
> reduce=
> our=20
>    ranks.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial">&nbsp;<o:p>=
> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't 
> thi=
> nk you=20
>    understood my&nbsp;analysis of the location of the problem which is 
> ent=
> irely=20
>    my opinion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think=20
>    like&nbsp;Glen Watson that progression should be based on 
> ability&nbsp;=
> to=20
>    perform&nbsp;not on&nbsp;a series of events which in some cases have 
> no=
> thing=20
>    to do with ability or 
> performance.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></=
> DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When we 
> for=
> ce=20
>    advancement on a person who is not ready to move up due to what ever 
> th=
> e=20
>    case may be we are doing him an injustice and cutting off our nose to 
> s=
> pite=20
>    our face.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Be real we 
> =
> have=20
>    the Pro's and those with similar ability who aspire to join that group 
> =
> and=20
>    possibly be a world champion and push products for the Hobby Industry=
> =20
>    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;Then 
> =
> we have=20
>    the majority, the&nbsp;Good Old Boys which is most of us who&nbsp;buy 
> t=
> he=20
>    stuff that the Pro group is 
> pushing.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>=
>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The Good 
> Ol=
> d Boys=20
>    just&nbsp;want to compete with each other progress according to our 
> abi=
> lity,=20
>    drink a few cool ones and generally enjoy our=20
>    sport.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The Top 
> GOB=
> is the=20
>    one who wins Masters at the Nat's<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">A GOB can 
> j=
> ump the=20
>    fence if he wants to and be a WC want to be and if he doesn't like the=
> =20
>    territory we will let him be a GOB again 
> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><=
> /DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&nbsp;But 
> w=
> ith=20
>    today's rules GOB's move up when the rules tell them to and that's 
> wher=
> e=20
>    some of our problems lie.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't 
> kno=
> w how=20
>    to express my opinion any simpler than=20
>    that.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack 
> size=3D2><SPAN=20=
>
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial">Buddy&nbsp;=
> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=3DArial 
> c=
> olor=3Dblack=20
>    size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Arial"><BR><BR><o:=
> p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
>    <DIV>
>    <DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt; TEXT-ALIGN: center"=
> =20
>    align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
>    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
>    <HR align=3Dcenter width=3D"100%" SIZE=3D2>
>    </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
>    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-TOP: 7.5pt"><FONT face=3DArial 
> col=
> or=3Dblack=20
>    size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 
> Ari=
> al">Get a=20
>    sneak peek of the all-new <A=20
> 
> title=3Dhttp://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF000200=
> 00000982=20
> 
> href=3D"http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour/?ncid=3DAOLAOF000200=
> 00000982"=20
>    target=3D_blank>AOL.com</A>.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
>    <P>
>    <HR>
>
> 
> <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discuss=
> ion=20
>    mailing=20
> 
> list<BR>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mail=
> man/listinfo/nsrca-discussion</BLOCKQUOTE>
>  <P>
>  <HR>
>
> 
> <P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>NSRCA-discussio=
> n=20
>  mailing=20
> 
> list<BR>NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org<BR>http://lists.nsrca.org/mailma=
> n/listinfo/nsrca-discussion=20
>
>  <P>
>  <HR>
>
>  <P></P>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>Checked by AVG 
> Free=20=
>
>  Edition. <BR>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release 
> D=
> ate:=20
>  8/13/2007 10:15 AM<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
> </HTML>
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7DE29.6A85C8AE--
> --===============0531308654==
> MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> _______________________________________________
> NSRCA-discussion mailing list
> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
> --===============0531308654==
> Content-Type: text/plain; x-avg=cert; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Disposition: inline
> Content-Description: "AVG certification"
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.11.17/951 - Release Date: 8/13/2007 
> 1=
> 0:15 AM
>
> --===============0531308654==--
> 



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