[NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question

[Don Ramsey]

Interesting, aresti is not in the regs and therefore has no bearing on the 
maneuver.  Use the description.  Roll direction is optional and stall turn 
direction is optional.

Aresti was posted for those who would like to use it but in pattern is not 
the defining criteria.  The slow roll depicted in aresti does not usually 
show an option to roll the other direction so must you roll in the direction 
of the arrow?  Neither does it show any differently than a roll on an 
immelmann.

Don

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "dwaynenancy" <dwaynenancy at cox.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question


> Dr. Ralph Brooke (world champion) said always to do your rolls away from
> the flight line.  This makes any directional heading movement less
> noticeable.  Dwayne
>
> Mark Atwood wrote:
>
>>I would disagree...it IS defined.  Figure M with 3/4 rolls.  Roll 
>>direction
>>is optional, stall direction is optional.  That's always been the case
>>unless it's specified otherwise.  There's no "implied" roll direction, 
>>just
>>one that some think looks better.  That will always be the case.
>>
>>Some people do their four points in different directions so as to show the
>>canopy first, or last, which ever they feel presents better...Not sure I
>>personally care, but for those that do...go for it.   I know I'll catch
>>flack for say this, but this IS a subjective sport.  Presentation DOES
>>matter... Always will.  It's shouldn't outweigh the objective criteria, 
>>but
>>it's not worthless either.
>>
>>
>>On 10/17/06 3:11 PM, "jivey61 at bellsouth.net" <jivey61 at bellsouth.net> 
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>G
>>>Yes you agree ..but you also see we have to define it now or everybody 
>>>will
>>>be flying and judging it differently. What a mess that will be.
>>>
>>>Jim Ivey
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "george w. kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:50 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Jim,
>>>>It certainly will work this way, but your original method will present
>>>>better. With the roll direction being pilots option your original
>>>>ll/rr-rr/ll is a much prettier maneuver. There's something to be said 
>>>>for
>>>>presenting the canopy to the judges on rolling maneuvers. I apply this
>>>>technique on all maneuvers with rolling elements unless the specified
>>>>requirement forces otherwise, like reverse K.E.'s.  IMHO, you had it 
>>>>right
>>>>the first time!
>>>>G.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
>>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:17 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bob
>>>>>If I read the Aresti correct the rolls on both vertical lines are the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>same
>>>
>>>
>>>>>direction.This makes it lt-lt and lt-lt coming from the left and rt-rt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>and
>>>
>>>
>>>>>rt-rt coming from the right.Like Jerry  said look at top of plane one
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>time
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and bottom of the plane next time.
>>>>>
>>>>>Jim Ivey
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Bob Kane" <getterflash at yahoo.com>
>>>>>To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 1:01 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Wow, this is more complicated than I anticipated. Do you have to roll
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>same way for each stall turn?  Or can you reverse directions to show 
>>>>>the
>>>>>canopy during each stall?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>For example, flying left to right as shown on the aresti, pull 1/4
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>loop,
>>>
>>>
>>>>>short line, roll 3/4 left (canopy toward flightline), short line, stall
>>>>>toward the right, short line, roll 3/4 left, short line, push 1/2
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>outside
>>>
>>>
>>>>>loop, short line, roll 3/4 right (canopy faces flight line), short 
>>>>>line,
>>>>>stall towerd the right, short line, 3/4 roll right, short line, pull 
>>>>>1/4
>>>>>loop.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob Kane
>>>>>>getterflash at yahoo.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>From: "jivey61 at bellsouth.net" <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
>>>>>>To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:45:56 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Masters 2007 Figure "M" question
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jerry
>>>>>>I looked again at the aresti and I think you are right.The aresti 
>>>>>>shows
>>>>>>both upline rolls in the same direction.That would let you see the top
>>>>>>one
>>>>>>time and bottom the other time.
>>>>>>My mistake Bob so much for crutches.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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