[NSRCA-discussion] Lithium Ion batteries
Ed Alt
ed_alt at hotmail.com
Thu Nov 30 09:32:41 AKST 2006
Vince:
You make good points about all the other devices that are around us with LiPo and LiIon batteries integrated into them. How many hundreds of millions or even billions of devices are working safely worldwide is anyone's guess, but it's a huge number. It's true that sometimes a phone or notebook catches fire, but the occurrence is remarkably low. Think about this the next time you board a flight - scary if something doesn't work right, eh?
But the key to the fact that the danger is relatively low in consumer products is right there in that one word: integrated. Everything is designed to work together, with temperature sensors added as well. It's the way we use our batteries by mixing & matching that exposes us to a much higher risk, hence the real need for the added precautions. Re. the charging rates being lower in consumer devices, this is generally true, but some higher current devices like notebook computers have fairly high charge rates as well, though not as high as we try to push them.
Re. battery powered device safety on airplanes, back when we all used NiMH batteries in notebooks, I witnessed a scary event while waiting to board at Newark. I was traveling with my boss, who always carried an extra battery on trips and who also always wore his work ID badge on a metal chain around his neck. When the boarding call came, he realized he was still wearing his ID in public and tossed it into the bag where he had just placed the spare battery. Lots of smoke. We were more than a little glad that this happened before we got on and he stowed the bag. Imagine if something shifted at just the wrong time. Yeah, I love flying!
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: vicenterc at comcast.net
To: NSRCA Mailing List ; NSRCA Mailing List
Cc: DaveL322 at comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Lithium Ion batteries
Thanks Dave,
Looks like we arrive to a good conclusion. We have to baby sit the charging process of any battery if we want to be 100% safe. Also, it appears base on our observations that the chances to have the problem with lithium is a little higher than older technologies. I could be wrong but that is the only reason to have the instructions in the lithium batteries. Definitively, I baby sit when I charge my electric planes batteries (lithium) and I take them out of the plane. However, I don't baby sit the rx and tx (Nicads or NiMh) and I don't take those out of the plane. I don't baby sit the laptop and cellular phones. What about cordorless phones. They are charging all time. Well , I just found that I am not 100% safe.
Vicent "Vince" Bortone
-------------- Original message --------------
From: DaveL322 at comcast.net
Vicente,
For the 30 years I've been using rechargeably batteries in RC, I have had one nicad and one nimh vent and smoke - no fire, no explosion, but definitely very hot and smoldering. Certainly hot enough to have caused a fire if in a different environment. In both cases, I was close enough to smell the problem and remove the batteries from the plane without damage to anything other than the batteries (and maybe some charred/scorch marks).
Point being, ANY battery can have a problem. The higher the energy density and larger the amount of energy stored, the greater the potential problem. And it would seem in RC applications, the more mature battery technologies are the safest for our typical use, but some would advocate never charging any battery unsupervised.
Regards,
Dave Lockhart
-------------- Original message --------------
From: vicenterc at comcast.net
Here are the safety instructions for TP batteries web site:
http://www.thunderpower-batteries.com/images/THPSafetyWarnings.pdf
I could not find the safety instructions on the Duralite web site.
Here the safety instructions from Fromeco web site:
http://www.fromeco.org/shop/ainstructions%20batteries.htm
The problem I have is that I don't have time to baby sit while the battery are charging. I try to do it with my small electric planes and I can not imagine babysitting all my planes while charging. Probably this is the only issue I have in regard lithium batteries. Do we really need to follow this instructions? If not, the manufactures will need to take the risk and take those instructions out from the web sites.
Vicente "Vince" Bortone
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Pete Cosky" <pcosky at comcast.net>
I had bought a few NMP 2400 mAh packs from Central last year. I don't see them on their website now though.
I am apprehensive to go Li-Poly due to the packaging and possibility of damage and fire. The Li-Ion is in a metal can that can shield it from physical damage. Using the wrong charger on the other hand would still be an issue.
The Li-Ion packs are lighter than a NiCad or Ni-Mh packs so you gain a weight savings and they need less maintenance than the aforementioned battery types.
I even made a pack to replace the Ni-Mh pack in my Multiplex EVO and it is holding up well.
As always this is nothing more than the ramblings of a longhaired freak.....
Robert & Casey Green <robcase1 at cox.net> wrote:
Hey Guys, I am thiking about running lithium-ions batteries this year. Besides duralite, is there anything else worth using.
Thanks in advance.
Robert
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