[NSRCA-discussion] TP 1010 testing

Richard Strickland richard.s at allied-callaway.com
Wed Mar 29 07:57:24 AKST 2006 

Orland and I got one set(the first) of 3200s to try for free to try along
with some other recording stuff that we were not successful making work with
a comfortable range.  We ended up buying five more sets at 1200.00 total.
They effectively lasted 25 cycles b/4 they lost enough cap. that they
wouldn't make it through P05.  They came out with some 4000s that were a
little better and Orland bought some of those for about 300.00(I think) per
set.  I was/am not convinced they would last much longer, so I didn't
participate thinking they were simply going to have to come out with
something bigger and badder to handle the amp draw without burning up.  I
had some huge projects both at work and home that ate up all my time from
about July 4th on so I could relax and wait.  I'm discussing 4800s with them
now.  FMA was relying on what Kokam was telling them when we first started
talking pattern-and as I mentioned a while back, Kokam is acknowledging the
batteries lose cycles at higher C usage in and out-I don't think that was
the case even a year ago!  When we started this electric venture, my point
to all involved was I was going to treat the batteries with respect, but I
was going to fly 'em like I fly-they were either going to work or not-and
they did very nicely-for a while.  But I could see the temps creeping up and
the capacity reduction to where at around 25 cycles, they were effectively
useless.. We abused them at 20-22C on a regular basis.   They were an
experiment that everyone involved learned from.  I was a little
disappointed, but I'm NOT complaining.  Once I got in the groove with the
support stuff and was banging out practice flights in quite a bit less time
than I used to, I learned that it was simply a whole lot less hassle than
glow.  I hope they give me a little consideration on the new sets-but I'm
not really expecting it from the standpoint I'm in and out as my time
permits.

An aside: I attended The KC Flying Circuits club meeting last night and we
discussed the MIFF we put on weekend B/4 last.  Other than a few bumps here
and there, it was pretty successful with a 100 pilots registered.  A few
folks lost sight that it was an all around fun fly and not an 'Extreme 3D
thing' foam fest.  One of the guys had some Orion? Kokam 4800 2 cell
packs(for cars, I think) and those babies were HEAVY-very close to my 5 cell
3200s.  I've got a feeling these are going to be WAY heavier than anyone's
big packs-no matter what the capacity.  But I'll bet we get some decent
cycle times out of them, however.  And that may be the compromise-the more
they try to overcome the longevity factor with more 'stuff' in them, the
heavier they will get with the current technology.  What we need are some
nice, light, huge, controllable capacitors.....

Richard

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
[mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]  On Behalf Of Grow Pattern
Sent:	Tuesday, March 28, 2006 10:53 PM
To:	NSRCA Mailing List
Subject:	Re: [NSRCA-discussion] TP 1010 testing

So who is sponsored by FMA or is getting free stuff from them???


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Van Putte" <vanputte at cox.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] TP 1010 testing


>
> On Mar 28, 2006, at 3:24 PM, Robert Mairs wrote:
>
>> I cked out the FMA charger also before buying, actually it was the
>> one I
>> wanted to get.  Still using tp paks I asked the question on the fma
>> board
>> how this charger would work with the tp paks, they ignored my
>> question.  I
>> assume that it would have to charge through the balance connector?
>> Would
>> the connector be able to handle the 6amps+?  or was it a stupid
>> question?  I
>> know they plan on coming out with tp connectors.
>
> FMA has a curious attitude toward dealers and customers.  They
> sometimes act as though we are the great unwashed and shouldn't be
> asking questions; we should just buy their stuff and use it, because
> it's the best you can buy.  If you don't believe me, just try asking
> a tough question to one of them at the Toledo show in a week or so.
>
> Ron Van Putte
>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
>> To: <chad at f3acanada.org>; "NSRCA Mailing List"
>> <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] TP 1010 testing
>>
>>
>>> Hi Chad,
>>> I don't know the internals of the TP circuits, but if the data
>>> link from
>>> balancer to charger is a simple alarm, then
>>> the balancer will have to produce the same alarm/output in either
>>> a real
>>> over-voltage, or a "can't keep up with a growing imbalance"
>>> condition.
>>> Either way, the circuit worked fine, to avoid problems.
>>>
>>> The FMA just seamlessly slows the charge rate down, and resumes at
>>> high-rate, when the imbalance is taken care of.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dean Pappas
>>> Sr. Design Engineer
>>> Kodeos Communications
>>> 111 Corporate Blvd.
>>> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>>> (908) 222-7817 phone
>>> (908) 222-2392 fax
>>> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Chad
>>> Northeast
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:28 PM
>>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] TP 1010 testing
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Bob
>>>
>>> The overvoltage seems to be quite common...I get it
>>> frequently...the packs
>>> are not going over voltage though...checked with my Fluke on
>>> recharge.
>>> Seems to happen when the charger/balancer gets hot...I have seen it
>>> display over 6V for individual cells.
>>>
>>> My charger goes into CV at 41V....but I have also had them
>>> terminate the
>>> charge early (41V)....unsure as to why.
>>>
>>> Chad
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Robert Mairs <robertm at sssnet.com>
>>> Date: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 8:51 am
>>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] TP 1010 testing
>>>
>>>> Got tired of building this last weekend, and decided to do some
>>>> testing of
>>>> the TP1010c charger.  Debated whether to post this, but some might
>>>> be
>>>> interested.
>>>>
>>>> All tests were done with the 5s3p 6000 prolites that have 90-100
>>>> cycles on
>>>> them.
>>>>
>>>> First off these packs haven't been touched since the end of
>>>> september, in
>>>> storage all winter.  So I proceeded to do a 1c charge, and then
>>>> discharged
>>>> with a cba to ck pack capacity.  They're holding up quite well
>>>> with about a
>>>> 4% drop in capacity as compared to new.  1c charge was quite
>>>> uneventful,
>>>> mostly getting accustomed to the charger.  I used both the 210 and
>>>> 205
>>>> balancers, both worked well with the system.  I did order 2 charge
>>>> systems,
>>>> but alas one charger had problems and has been sent back to
>>>> thunder power.
>>>> The push buttons seemed to lock up after a few seconds.  Only way
>>>> to get it
>>>> to unlock was to power it down.  Upon reactivation it would seem
>>>> alright,
>>>> but then the problem would reappear.  This was over several
>>>> attempts.
>>>>
>>>> I then decided to do a 10s charge after deep cycling the pack to
>>>> get a mah
>>>> reading.  Resting voltage of the pack 34.992.
>>>>
>>>> A .029 spread over the 10 cells.  Close to the .03, but the
>>>> balancer said it
>>>> was ok to do normal charge.
>>>>
>>>> Charger started the initial charge for about 4 min then ramped up
>>>> to 5amps
>>>> as it got close to 37volts.  At 40volts charger went into cv from
>>>> cc which
>>>> seemed a little early??  Balancer was working pretty hard by this
>>>> time.  Not
>>>> sure at what point it was, but the alarms and bells started going
>>>> off, and
>>>> the charger shut down stating overvoltage on cell 6.  Balancer was
>>>> pretty
>>>> hot and quite active.  Not sure why it couldn't keep up, but it
>>>> didn't.  Let
>>>> the pack continue to balance out, and restarted the charge which
>>>> took about
>>>> another 400mah before pack was fully charged.  Anyways, found out
>>>> the
>>>> overvoltage feature works!  Wisdom gained, if that big of a cell
>>>> spread,
>>>> balance it out first, but I was kind of surprised this happened.
>>>> First
>>>> because the balancer said ok, 2nd I thought the charger wouldn't
>>>> ramp up the
>>>> current until all cells were within specs, 3rd I didn't think the
>>>> balancer
>>>> would have any problem at 5amps which is only a .8c charge.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Redischarged the packs, taking out about 4500mah.  Pack voltage
>>>> this time
>>>> was at 37.26 with only .006 spread over the 10 cells.  Started the
>>>> same 10s
>>>> charge, this time uneventful til completion.  The balancer was
>>>> quite active,
>>>> but didn't heat up as the first charge did.  Total charge time was
>>>> 65
>>>> minutes and put in 4594mah.  Balancer was still active at end of
>>>> charge.
>>>> cell voltage spread was .012 over the 10 cells, pack voltages were
>>>> 20.86 and
>>>> 20.84.  Not sure I like the 10s feature.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Decided to try a 1.5c charge on one of the 5s packs.
>>>>
>>>> Resting voltage 18.68 with a .005 spread on the 5 cells.  Set to
>>>> 5cells
>>>> 9amps, fast charge.
>>>>
>>>> 1st 1000mah at about 7min.
>>>> 2nd 1000mah at about 13min.
>>>> at 30min was at 3.86amps, voltage at 21v.  4290mah
>>>> 31min   3.2amps, 4350mah
>>>> 32min   2.78amps, 4390mah
>>>> 33min   2.33amps, 4437mah
>>>> 34min   2.13amps, 4474mah
>>>> 35min   1.75amps, 4506mah
>>>> 36min   1.58amps, 4533mah
>>>> 36min 52sec  charge terminated at 4554mah
>>>>
>>>> cv kicked in at 20.48volts
>>>>
>>>> Ending voltage was 20.85 with a .006 spread over the 5 cells.
>>>> Noticed no
>>>> heat buildup in pack, or balancer.  Balancer showed little
>>>> activity through
>>>> out the charge.  Didn't work nearly as hard as the successful 10s
>>>> charge.
>>>> Used the 205v balancer on the 1.5c charge.
>>>>
>>>> Also tried the storage discharge and charge which worked quite
>>>> well.  The
>>>> discharge came closer at 19.26 volts, can only discharge a 1amp.
>>>>
>>>> Chargers quite easy to use.  I'm leaning towards the 1.5c charge
>>>> with 2
>>>> chargers.  It worked very well.  Will have to wait and see how
>>>> long it takes
>>>> to get my 2nd charger back.
>>>> Anyways that's the way it went for me for those interested.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> NSRCA-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>>>> http://lists.nsrca.org/mailman/listinfo/nsrca-discussion
>>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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