[NSRCA-discussion] Toyota

Thu Jan 26 05:15:28 AKST 2006

 Well stated Ed. When are you up for election?

Ed Miller <edbon85 at charter.net> wrote:        

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 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto  }  SPAN.EmailStyle19 {   COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-reply; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial  }  SPAN.SpellE {   mso-style-name: ""; mso-spl-e: yes  }  SPAN.GramE {   mso-style-name: ""; mso-gram-e: yes  }  DIV.Section1 {   page: Section1  }      Popular conception of the average autoworker that helps foster the notion the original US car manufacturers sell over priced, inferior products because of organized labor. I personally do not favor unions but saw their need first hand. I spent 3 1/2 years with GM in Tarrytown NY, 2 weeks on the assembly line and the rest of the time in skilled trades with a short stint as a per
 diem supervisor. The press failed to mention when publicizing UAW wages that typically a "line person" was working 46 to 54 hours a week and the press included health and pension benefits into their hourly wage numbers. Add up your salary and all benefits and break it down by hour, I think you will be surprised. Fact is very few could do what autoworkers do in a typical day, hang 600 or so fenders, bumpers, doors, paint and lay lead in full jump suits with respirators ( 50's through 80's ). It is hard, boring and tedious work. But many of those people put their sons and daughters through college so they might have a better life. They were a huge part of the middle class, which by the way pays the freight in this country and far too many send their sons and daughters overseas to push questionable political agendas. During my tenure with GM I saw 3 deaths and countless serious injuries. For sure, there were abuses on both sides, union and management. However, the UAW did not make the
 decision to put all their eggs in one basket pushing low mpg SUV's in a world of $60 + barrel of oil costs. The major blame of the original US automakers current blight can be laid at managements doorstep, adopting pay later schemes to pay for benefits and paying executives as much as 500 times what employees make. The totally out of control health care costs in this country threaten to bankrupt everyone if left unchecked. In fact many big US companies in general suffer the same business model, pay later and pay way to much to the decision makers for making questionable long term decisions. Not everyone can be a rocket scientist, doctor or Bill Gates. I'll continue to purchase US made products when available and that's the real crime, often their is no US made alternative. If my recent experience with overseas built junk LCD TV's is any indication, we all soon will wish we didn't export the middle class. You get exactly what you pay for, never more. 
  Ed M.
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Terry Terrenoire 
  To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
  Cc: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Toyota

  What seems to be forgotten is that Chrysler paid the govt back every penny that was lent to it, plus interest!
  I may P.O. some people, but I firmly believe that the industry's main problem is the Unions. I remember growing up in the 50's and 60's. There were strikes nearly every other year with the Unions DEMANDING greater and greater benefits, now we are all paying for them. One is early retirements with life time guaranteed medical benefits, with NO contribution from the workers, another was paying some HS drop out 3 times the minimum wage just to but lug nuts on the cars.

  Terry T.

  On Wed, 25 Jan 2006 16:35:55 -0500 "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot at sc.rr.com> writes:
      Remember what happened when a certain CEO took Chrysler Chapt.11? We all bailed him out.
  As for cars, I bought a Honda Element, a mini-SUV. It measures 2m in the rear with the seats up (they raise off the floor and fold against the sides) but I haven’t tried to get my Focus inside as yet. The floors are rubberized so fuel, etc., won’t harm them. It also gets 26mpg on the way to contests.

  -----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ed Miller
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:07 PM
To: NSRCA Mailing List
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Toyota

    I have to agree. IMO the domestic car companies produce as good if not better vehicles than their overseas counterparts.  It has become "trendy" to own certain plaques over others.  A Chevrolet Z06 Corvette with no other changes other than a Ferrari badge would cost well into the 6 figures instead of 70K.  There used to be a saying "as GM goes so does the USA".  Many think that no longer applies.  I say watch what happens if GM and/or Ford goes chapter 11.  I've always felt that if I bought a US product I was in some way helping my neighbor. 

    Ed M.  

      ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: Dean Pappas 

    To: NSRCA Mailing List 

    Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:51 AM

    Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Toyota

    You know, it's a terrible shame that after taking a deserved heck of a beating for truly poor reliability/design back in the seventies,

    Detroit has honest-to-for-really turned their act around ... and they don't get credit for it!

    My Grand Caravan with the Stow n'Go seats is a marvellously practical vehicle.

  Dean Pappas 
Sr. Design Engineer 
Kodeos Communications 
111 Corporate Blvd. 
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080 
(908) 222-7817 phone 
(908) 222-2392 fax 
d.pappas at kodeos.com 
    -----Original Message-----
From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Rick Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:11 AM
To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Toyota
    Not sure it works to say that 'all profits go to Japan' - at one  point, GM owned 1% of Toyota. I just checked the Toyota corp's stock symbol- there's a family of symbols shown - can't easily trace WHERE the ownership is / where the profits go. 
  When I did the 'buy a van' analysis in 2003 major factors were: 
-- The need to handle 36000 miles a year.
-- Reliability
-- Whether my van would outlive the payment stream. I wasn't / am not confident that most 'US makes' will either do that.
-- Reputable dealer / support network.  
  Based on the above factors, (Consumer Reports information and personal experience with FMC/ Chrysler family / Gm dealers in the NJ area) my choice narrowed  quickly to Honda and Toyota. 
  Your mileage may vary; my search led me to a van that may not be the BEST choice, but it's been good enough so far. 
  -Rick 

---------------------------------

  From: DaveL322 at comcast.net
Reply-To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
To: NSRCA Mailing List <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Toyota
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:40:15 +0000
    Ideally, for the US, it would be better to have the profits stay here as well.

    Nonetheless, the workers get to stay here, the workers salaries stay here, taxes stay here, and Toyota has invested profits in the US building the infrastructure to manufacture in the US.

    Far better for the US than the only piece being point of sale.  Quite possibly better for the US than many US firms which design and manufacture overseas, and then import back to the US for point of sale.

    Regards,

    Dave

    -------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Gerald Gallagher" <ggall at bellsouth.net> 
     Toyota, built in USA BUT, all Profits go to Japan. Something to think about?

    Jerry Gallagher

---------------------------------

  From: "Gerald Gallagher" <ggall at bellsouth.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <discussion at nsrca.org>
Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Toyota
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 15:34:25 +0000
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