[NSRCA-discussion] Was Mini Brio, Now Pattern Longitevity

Sat Feb 25 12:14:46 AKST 2006

I guess I should have left out the bit regarding the fact that I really haven't had time to scratch a roach, I don't even have enough room now to put together an ARF for the time being. <g> Out of curiosity Jay, what methods did you go about to attract the people to your primer? I saw that there was a notification on the D2 website, but how did you promote it otherwise, or did you? That sounds like a heck of a turnout, considering that the weather was bad, and also that is about the same turnout that we get for a full blown contest. Kudos to you for that.

But regarding that H9 Brio 10, I need one of those. There is a chance I can make some concessions...

-Ryan
> 
> From: "jguinn" <jaguinn at texinet.net>
> Date: 2006/02/25 Sat PM 03:21:28 EST
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Was Mini Brio, Now Pattern Longitevity
> 
> Pattern needs a big overhaul !!!!! All the soso B/S and the HI-TEC talk runs 
> off 99 out of 100 new comers. There is a lot of cheap planes out there that 
> will fly pattern all are wood and will do the job just find. I get tried of 
> hearing about all the HI-TEC myself but i just turn it off but a newcomer 
> want they just don't come back. So we run off most of them with our talk. We 
> need help them and leave the talk off if they ask then tell them.
> James Guinn
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jay Marshall" <lightfoot at sc.rr.com>
> To: "'NSRCA Mailing List'" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 1:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Was Mini Brio, Now Pattern Longitevity
> 
> 
> > Ryan, there are people out there interested in pattern flying, if we just
> > connect. We recently had a pattern primer in SC and over 30 people 
> > showed -
> > on a bad flying day! And yes, K-Factor is an insider's mag and does 
> > nothing
> > to attract new people.
> >
> > I agree with your comments on the availability of woodies, however, not
> > everyone has the talent and the time to build, or even want to build. This
> > is especially true of some of the younger flyers that we need to attract 
> > to
> > keep the sport going. "I bought a set from him a while back and haven't 
> > had
> > the chance to build one, but I really would like to" is a good example. 
> > Even
> > some of us who don't have full time jobs and families still don't have the
> > time (or patience) required. I don't suggest that we replace the 2M 
> > formula,
> > just supplement it with an easier entry fun format.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> > [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Smith
> > Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 12:52 PM
> > To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> > Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Was Mini Brio, Now Pattern Longitevity
> >
> > I honestly don't think that you have to spend out the butt to have a
> > competitive setup. The keeping up with the Joneses syndrome is the 
> > prevalent
> > factor that makes everyone think that pattern is so ungodly expensive. 
> > There
> > are plenty of options out there for people to create a cost-effective,
> > competitive two meter rig. But alas, people out there think they HAVE to
> > have the biggest best and fastest everything, when in reality, there is no
> > way in hell most newer fliers out there can discern between a slightly
> > inferior and cheaper product and a top of the line product (a big example
> > here would be digital servos as opposed to analog servos). There are
> > certainly MANY viable options out there for a cheap two meter setup that
> > will be competitive in the long run. The best example I can see of this is
> > Mark Hunt, down in the Houston area. His airplane, the Insight, is all 
> > wood
> > and foam, and can be built with maybe $150 worth of wood (I'm throwing a
> > generous estimate out there), not to mention the plans are like $25. He is
> > actually running an OS 1.60 on a standard muffler and is still making the
> > noise restrictions. Mark exemplifies what people just starting out in
> > pattern need to look into, not only because it's cheap, but the airplanes
> > are simple to maintain and I would venture to say bulletproof.  I bought a
> > set from him a while back and haven't had the chance to build one, but I
> > really would like to. I would like to do what he's doing and and outfit it
> > with analog servos and make it otherwise plain jane and see just how it
> > stacks up to the rest of the field out there. There are also several other
> > wood airplanes out there that are a little more extravagant, such as the
> > Black Magic v2 by Mike Hester and the Quest and Shindin by Bryan Herbert
> > that are being drawn in CAD and being kitted. Look at the airplanes that 
> > the
> > Japanese team members fly- they're all wood. And look at where they place.
> > Most if not all are always in the top ten, and young Tetsuo Onda even 
> > placed
> > second this year. That's a heck of a feat for anyone, mu
> >
> > ch less an eighteen year old who is flying against people who have been
> > modeling twice as long as he's been living.
> >
> >            Another point, the theory of everyone flying the same thing has
> > never worked, not in fullscale and not in models. The One Design class 
> > never
> > caught on in full scale, however there are many examples of that airplane
> > flying. In IMAC, there are worries about everyone using consistent
> > batteries, motors, servos, and such, and if you have to be dictated that
> > much on what you can and cannot fly, it takes the fun out. Also, in IMAC, 
> > it
> > is commonplace to see high end airplanes in Basic and Sportsman just 
> > because
> > people want to get that advantage that they really get through burning 
> > fuel.
> > I know everyone hates to hear that, but it is the truth. Once you start to
> > see improvements in your own flying after having flown a lot, then you see
> > what everyone preaches about when they say fly a bunch. I really don't 
> > think
> > that pattern dying is really directly related to cost, but if you want to
> > make it such let's break down Jay's idea. How cost effective is it to make
> > someone buy something that they can't use in upper classes and would have 
> > to
> > buy a new setup every year. Shouldn't we be showing people that they can 
> > go
> > and get a nice setup that they can actually use and enjoy? Not to mention
> > the fact that you can reuse the equipment should you decide (or your 
> > thumbs
> > decide) to get a new airframe. I think the cost factor is implemented by
> > people who don't really have the desire to succeed and have to use that as 
> > a
> > scapegoat to cover what they see as their failures.
> >
> >            I honestly think pattern needs an overhaul. It's not the cost
> > that really drives people away, it's the ideology surrounding it that 
> > does.
> > People see pattern as being boring and too easy, and generally not 
> > exciting.
> > However, with the advent 3D flight, and people becoming attracted to model
> > airplanes because of it, they really want to hone their skills. I have 
> > seen
> > a lot of subtle hints dropped by some past pattern flyers who write for
> > magazines telling people to look into pattern if they really want to 
> > become
> > better at 3D. I also think that we need more promotion. Model Aviation has
> > cut down the pattern column in the magazine to every other month, yet 
> > there
> > are other facets in there that get full coverage that really don't need 
> > it.
> > If we want pattern to survive, we really need to get publicized where it
> > counts- where we're going to be attracting people. Advertising in the K
> > Factor does nothing for the growth of pattern because we're all already
> > interested enough in it to subscribe. But there are people out there who
> > don't know and maybe would like to. I can't tell you how many times on RCU
> > I've seen someone post in the Pattern Forum "What is Pattern Flying?". 
> > Most
> > are usually creative in what they think it is, but nevertheless, the same
> > group sets them straight. I think we should get on the AMA to get us more
> > coverage and other magazines as well, such as Model Airplane News, 3D 
> > Flyer,
> > etc. I believe THAT is what will help us, not making people buy some 
> > little
> > electric that they won't be competitive with.
> >
> >            Thanks for taking the time to read this guys, please feel free
> > to respond.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Ryan Smith
> >
> >
> >
> >
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