[NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes

Fri Dec 8 12:58:02 AKST 2006

Dean
Steel is made to build high rises and bridges <G>.  Nat

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes

> Hi Nat,
> How about the Dacron braided cord sold for 1/2 Control-Line?
> I'm all with the "same materials" deal, though a wire joiner with
> the horn in the middle should be fine, especially as some of the
> CL suppliers sell elevator/flap horns with 1/8" wire to stop the twisting.
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Nat Penton
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 12:57 PM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
>
> Ed, Dean, Ed
> Thanks. Solutions are difficult. Temps and humidity affect the 
> balsa-carbon
> setups. Looks like I need to go back to my '80s setup. Balsa fuse - balsa
> pushrod, stab removable Dick Hanson style, elevators joined with wood
> crossover and pinned to stab, elev torque arm on crossover and internal.
> WHEW ! Incidentally, if you had misalignment of the two elev halves you
> could correct it with the heat gun.
>
> This doesen't take care of the rudder - maybe cotton cable/rope ?? What
> cable has been tried besides braided steel, kevlar, braided kevlar ?
> Nat
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
>
>>I have a home made DEPS system in my fiberglass fuse/wood crutch EMC and
>> still see a good deal of elevator trim change as temperature changes. 
>> I'm
>> sure some of the trim change can be attributed to air density changes
>> changing the AoA along with the expansion/contraction coefficients of the
>> different materials.  I know a great deal of the change is in the
>> expansion/contraction coefficients of the different materials as I also
>> see
>> my rudder cables loosen/tighten. The elevator trim change in itself isn't
>> bad unless the aircraft requires a bit of rudder to elevator mixing, then
>> it
>> creates a problem.  So I'm leaning towards 2 elevator servos mounted in
>> the
>> stab on my next pattern plane.
>> Ed M.
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
>> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>>
>> Hi Nat,
>> I'm using the Sullivann composite tube-in-tube pushrods in a wooden
>> fuselage
>> model right now. The expansion coefficients are far from mtched, though 
>> it
>> is rather predictable. If it's colder than last time I flew, I will need
>> up
>> trim and vice versa. The trim change is a factor of 2 or 3 worse than if 
>> I
>> had a fiberglass/carbon pushrod in the plane, but tons better than an old
>> Nyrod, and tons cheaper than carbon fiber rods. My serious airplanes 
>> still
>> get carbon rod DEPs.
>> Dean.
>>
>> Dean Pappas
>> Sr. Design Engineer
>> Kodeos Communications
>> 111 Corporate Blvd.
>> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>> (908) 222-7817 phone
>> (908) 222-2392 fax
>> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed Alt
>> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 1:12 AM
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>>
>> Nat:
>>
>> It starts on this page:
>> http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3637235/mpage_4/key_prestige/tm.htm
>> <http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3637235/mpage_4/key_prestige/tmhtm>
>>
>> Yes, it's the Sullivan composite version for the inner pushrod. 
>> Actually,
>> the Prestige is nearly all wood.  It's a balsa composite shell with thin
>> FG
>> layer on the inside, pressed into balsa and then coated with whatever 
>> they
>> create the finish with.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Nat Penton <mailto:natpenton at centurytel.net>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>> Ed
>> I'm having trouble finding the Prestige thread. Can you help me out ?? 
>> Are
>> you using the Sullivan composite inner pushrod ? Would they be of any
>> benefit in a wood fuse ?                 Nat
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Ed  <mailto:ed_alt at hotmail.com> Alt
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:53 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>> You might want to check out the Prestige thread under Pattern on RCU.  I
>> adopted a pushrod method that Dave Lockhart has used for some time and
>> there
>> are some pics and description there.  I think Dave's installation method
>> is
>> more highly evolved than what I patched together, but I think what's 
>> shown
>> in the thread is a reasonable facsimili.  When you first hear about using
>> Nyrods, you will most likely be very skeptical.  I sure was.  These are
>> different though, since they have the CF slider vs. the usual junk. 
>> There
>> is some change with temperature, but not nearly as much as I have
>> experienced with other methods.  It's really light, really cheap and not
>> too
>> difficult to install.  It's also a very positive control feel.
>>
>> Ed
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Nat Penton <mailto:natpenton at centurytel.net>
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>> Amir
>> All that fine weather is bad for relations !
>>
>> I use Kevlar pull-pull on rudder, balsa fuse, and with high humidity I am
>> worried the servo will be uprooted. Need to adjust atleast daily. Also 
>> use
>> DEP on elev ( 20 years ) and have trim changes sometimes hourly. I need 
>> to
>> change both.            Nat
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: Amir Neshati <mailto:amirneshati at earthlink.net>
>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing  <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> List'
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>> I thought it went like, "wood fuse, pull-pull, fiberglass fuse, 
>> pull-pull,
>> carbon fuse, pull-pull." Lightest set up too.
>>
>> 65 degrees, sunny, calm, clear & comfortable....
>>
>> Amir
>>
>>  _____
>>
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean 
>> Pappas
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:25 AM
>> To: NSRCA Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>> Back in the Stone Age (Ron remembers this) we always said, "wood fuse,
>> wood
>> pushrod and fiberglass fuse, fiberglass pushrod.
>> As long as the elevator trim is the only one that changes, then life is
>> simple especially with crossed digital trims.
>> Putting the servos in the tail works, as does an MS-10 or Matchbox.
>> So does putting a 1:1 bellcrank halfway between the servo arm and the
>> elevator horn. That's a trick that nobody uses anymore.
>>
>> Dean
>>
>> Dean Pappas
>> Sr. Design Engineer
>> Kodeos Communications
>> 111 Corporate Blvd.
>> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
>> (908) 222-7817 phone
>> (908) 222-2392 fax
>> d.pappas at kodeos.com
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay 
>> Marshall
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:06 PM
>> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
>> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>>
>> Some servo electronics could be temp sensitive. Measure the elevator on a
>> cold morning then warm it up slowly with a heat gun (carefully) and see 
>> if
>> anything moves.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
>> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Brian
>> Billings
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:05 PM
>> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
>> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>>
>> I have been dealing with elevator trim changes on my D.E.P.S. 
>> installation
>> which has been worse with cold mornings and warm afternoons. Last night 
>> on
>> the way home from the field I got the idea of figuring out a way to take
>> the
>> pot out of the servo and mounting it on the control surface, that way the
>> surface will always go to it's set position regardless of how much the
>> fuse
>> has expanded or contracted. Anybody ever try this, I know it could be 
>> done
>> but is it practical? My worry is vibration, sealing the pot from the
>> elements, oil, keeping a clean signal with the long leads to the rear and
>> a
>> positive connection from pot to surface. Is this a dumb Idea?
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>
>>  _____
>>
>>
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>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.20/508 - Release Date:
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>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>> 10/31/2006
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.20/508 - Release Date: 
> 10/31/2006
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.20/508 - Release Date: 
> 10/31/2006
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Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.20/508 - Release Date: 10/31/2006