[NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes

Fri Dec 8 08:57:02 AKST 2006

Ed, Dean, Ed
Thanks. Solutions are difficult. Temps and humidity affect the balsa-carbon 
setups. Looks like I need to go back to my '80s setup. Balsa fuse - balsa 
pushrod, stab removable Dick Hanson style, elevators joined with wood 
crossover and pinned to stab, elev torque arm on crossover and internal. 
WHEW ! Incidentally, if you had misalignment of the two elev halves you 
could correct it with the heat gun.

This doesen't take care of the rudder - maybe cotton cable/rope ?? What 
cable has been tried besides braided steel, kevlar, braided kevlar ? 
Nat

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Miller" <edbon85 at charter.net>
To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes

>I have a home made DEPS system in my fiberglass fuse/wood crutch EMC and
> still see a good deal of elevator trim change as temperature changes.  I'm
> sure some of the trim change can be attributed to air density changes
> changing the AoA along with the expansion/contraction coefficients of the
> different materials.  I know a great deal of the change is in the
> expansion/contraction coefficients of the different materials as I also 
> see
> my rudder cables loosen/tighten. The elevator trim change in itself isn't
> bad unless the aircraft requires a bit of rudder to elevator mixing, then 
> it
> creates a problem.  So I'm leaning towards 2 elevator servos mounted in 
> the
> stab on my next pattern plane.
> Ed M.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dean Pappas" <d.pappas at kodeos.com>
> To: "NSRCA Mailing List" <nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
>
> Hi Nat,
> I'm using the Sullivann composite tube-in-tube pushrods in a wooden 
> fuselage
> model right now. The expansion coefficients are far from mtched, though it
> is rather predictable. If it's colder than last time I flew, I will need 
> up
> trim and vice versa. The trim change is a factor of 2 or 3 worse than if I
> had a fiberglass/carbon pushrod in the plane, but tons better than an old
> Nyrod, and tons cheaper than carbon fiber rods. My serious airplanes still
> get carbon rod DEPs.
> Dean.
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ed Alt
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 1:12 AM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
>
> Nat:
>
> It starts on this page:
> http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3637235/mpage_4/key_prestige/tm.htm
> <http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3637235/mpage_4/key_prestige/tmhtm>
>
> Yes, it's the Sullivan composite version for the inner pushrod.  Actually,
> the Prestige is nearly all wood.  It's a balsa composite shell with thin 
> FG
> layer on the inside, pressed into balsa and then coated with whatever they
> create the finish with.
>
> Ed
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Nat Penton <mailto:natpenton at centurytel.net>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
> Ed
> I'm having trouble finding the Prestige thread. Can you help me out ?? Are
> you using the Sullivan composite inner pushrod ? Would they be of any
> benefit in a wood fuse ?                 Nat
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Ed  <mailto:ed_alt at hotmail.com> Alt
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 10:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
> You might want to check out the Prestige thread under Pattern on RCU.  I
> adopted a pushrod method that Dave Lockhart has used for some time and 
> there
> are some pics and description there.  I think Dave's installation method 
> is
> more highly evolved than what I patched together, but I think what's shown
> in the thread is a reasonable facsimili.  When you first hear about using
> Nyrods, you will most likely be very skeptical.  I sure was.  These are
> different though, since they have the CF slider vs. the usual junk.  There
> is some change with temperature, but not nearly as much as I have
> experienced with other methods.  It's really light, really cheap and not 
> too
> difficult to install.  It's also a very positive control feel.
>
> Ed
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Nat Penton <mailto:natpenton at centurytel.net>
> To: NSRCA Mailing List <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
> Amir
> All that fine weather is bad for relations !
>
> I use Kevlar pull-pull on rudder, balsa fuse, and with high humidity I am
> worried the servo will be uprooted. Need to adjust atleast daily. Also use
> DEP on elev ( 20 years ) and have trim changes sometimes hourly. I need to
> change both.            Nat
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Amir Neshati <mailto:amirneshati at earthlink.net>
> To: 'NSRCA Mailing  <mailto:nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org> List'
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
> I thought it went like, "wood fuse, pull-pull, fiberglass fuse, pull-pull,
> carbon fuse, pull-pull." Lightest set up too.
>
> 65 degrees, sunny, calm, clear & comfortable....
>
> Amir
>
>  _____
>
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Dean Pappas
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:25 AM
> To: NSRCA Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
>
> Hi All,
> Back in the Stone Age (Ron remembers this) we always said, "wood fuse, 
> wood
> pushrod and fiberglass fuse, fiberglass pushrod.
> As long as the elevator trim is the only one that changes, then life is
> simple especially with crossed digital trims.
> Putting the servos in the tail works, as does an MS-10 or Matchbox.
> So does putting a 1:1 bellcrank halfway between the servo arm and the
> elevator horn. That's a trick that nobody uses anymore.
>
> Dean
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Jay Marshall
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 2:06 PM
> To: 'NSRCA Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
>
> Some servo electronics could be temp sensitive. Measure the elevator on a
> cold morning then warm it up slowly with a heat gun (carefully) and see if
> anything moves.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org
> [mailto:nsrca-discussion-bounces at lists.nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Brian
> Billings
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 12:05 PM
> To: nsrca-discussion at lists.nsrca.org
> Subject: [NSRCA-discussion] Trim changes
>
> I have been dealing with elevator trim changes on my D.E.P.S. installation
> which has been worse with cold mornings and warm afternoons. Last night on
> the way home from the field I got the idea of figuring out a way to take 
> the
> pot out of the servo and mounting it on the control surface, that way the
> surface will always go to it's set position regardless of how much the 
> fuse
> has expanded or contracted. Anybody ever try this, I know it could be done
> but is it practical? My worry is vibration, sealing the pot from the
> elements, oil, keeping a clean signal with the long leads to the rear and 
> a
> positive connection from pot to surface. Is this a dumb Idea?
>
> Brian
>
>
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