Mail List Changes

[Pete Cosky]

First let me say that I feel your pain Ed.....I have more than a passing 
familiarity with supporting a lot of network users and know what you're 
going through. I don't think anyone is going to step up to be custodian of 
the list.

I personally find it easier to hit "Reply All" and delete the un-needed 
e-mail address from the "To" line. When I first signed up I found it odd 
that a reply didn't go to the sender but rather to the list.

You will never please everyone and after the initial shock of change people 
usually adapt. I do find it funny that considering people's complaints about 
off topic mail how this has turned into a rather long thread as well.

Pete

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jason" <jasonshulman at cox.net>
To: "NSRCA" <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:18
Subject: RE: Mail List Changes


>I like the "new" way the list is trying. I've seen so many times that a
> topic turns into a weekend planner (I'm guilty too, before I cut and paste
> it to private) and an online conversation nothing to do with the topic. 
> Lets
> just give it a try. Worst case scenario is that we learn to use another
> button (Reply All) or if it becomes a nuisance like the old way is to 
> reply
> privately, I guess we'll go back. Give it a shot before shooting it down.
> And worst case for me is that I will "GET OFF THE LIST" so I don't have a
> 100 "what are you doing today" emails to delete. Thank you Ed.
>
> Jason
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Ron and Nancy Lawrence
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:10 AM
> To: Keith Black
> Cc: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Mail List Changes
>
>
> I also agree with Dave.This seems easy to me,  if you don't want so many
> emails,   GET OFF THE LIST!!  The rest of us enjoy these and think the 
> list
> is fine the way it is.  My two cents worth.  Ron Lawrence
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Keith Black" <tkeithb at comcast.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 2:48 AM
> Subject: Re: Mail List Changes
>
>
>> Ed, you control the list so I guess we're going to be giving it a try,
> we'll
>> see how it goes.
>>
>> I would like to point out however that the change has already hurt the
> open
>> communication on the forum. You as the sender of the original email have
>> seen thirteen votes for and three against the change. The rest of us have
>> only seen two for and three against. I would argue that most of the
> replies
>> would have been public had you not made the change, hence the change has
>> already hurt the open discussion on the mailing list.
>>
>> Every successful community I've seen owes its success to lots of
>> participation. The kiss of death isn't too many messages, it's not 
>> enough.
>>
>> The real problem we have, and why people including me get tired of
> off-topic
>> emails, is that we're using a simple mailing list and not a forum. The
> nice
>> thing about forums is that everything is under a topic and you don't have
> to
>> wade through a lot of items you're not interested in to find what you 
>> want
>> to read. I know it's very labor intensive to setup our own forum, but
> there
>> options available. Yahoo Groups is an excellent option for SIGs. They can
> be
>> private, public, by invitation or open. The individual members choose if
> the
>> want every message emailed to them, a daily summary, or if they just wish
> to
>> read messages via the forum interface. There are search tools, a location
> to
>> share photos and files, an online chat, the ability to conduct polls, 
>> etc.
>> Another option is to work with one of the RC specialty forums like RCU.
>>
>> This would be a radical change and may not be very popular to those that
>> have close emotional ties to this mailing list, but I think they're ideas
>> worth discussing.
>>
>> I will do some research into the Yahoo Groups option.
>>
>> BTW, if anyone cares to reply, please do so to the list ;-)
>>
>> Keith Black
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ed Hartley" <roho2 at rcpattern.com>
>> To: "0ld Friends at Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: Mail List Changes
>>
>>
>> > Hi Dave, Keith and Tom,
>> >
>> > Thanks for the comments! I tend to agree with some of your points.
>> However,
>> > I want to try this for a few days and see how it goes!
>> >
>> > Most of the guys are replying to me privately. I likewise replied to
> them
>> > privately. So far the vote is thirteen for, three against. That said, 
>> > we
>> are
>> > not taking a vote, just trying to improve a bad situation.
>> >
>> > By the way, there are mail list for ALL the districts including Canada
>> East
>> > and Canada West. The districts didn't set up the list, I did and they
> are
>> > all active. http://www.nsrca.org/distsites.htm Unfortunately some don't
>> > choose to use them to promote their contest and other district stuff.
>> >
>> > I would almost promise the folks wanting to share their information 
>> > will
>> Cc:
>> > the list. Certainly the responsible individuals will. If they are to
> lazy,
>> > then the information they wish to pass on probably isn't important. If
>> they
>> > don't know how to do it the easy way, they can email me "privately" and
> I
>> > will tell them how!
>> >
>> > Many of the list members are not members of NSRCA. I don't think the
> list
>> > plays that big a part in holding NSRCA together. In my mind the
> K-Factor,
>> > the web site, the many volunteer members and our board get credit for
>> that.
>> >
>> > Dan, many feel this is something more than a small insignificant
> problem.
>> I
>> > receive more emails than you might realize complaining about the
> replies.
>> > This is what prompted my sending the recent two most pointed emails to
> the
>> > list requesting a little judgment in how the list is used. As you can
>> tell,
>> > this resulted in little or no change.
>> >
>> > Keith, I don't have the time nor the inclination to email the 
>> > offenders.
>> If
>> > you or ANY NSRCA member would like to administer/moderate this list, 
>> > Get
>> the
>> > boards approval and I will set it up for you in less time than it takes
>> to
>> > read this email! Better yet, email me privately and I will see if I can
>> get
>> > the approval for you! It would please me no end for someone else to do
> it.
>> >
>> > A note about that! If one moderates the list, he/she will have many 
>> > more
>> > problems than the one we are discussing! You will receive around
>> one-hundred
>> > plus emails a day for non-deliverables. The number depends on how many
> are
>> > posted to the list. Some of these are for members who have changed 
>> > their
>> > email address and didn't bother to take themselves off along with
> various
>> > other problems. You filter through these and remove the necessary ones
>> > manually. If you do this properly, it will take around an hour a day
>> > average. You will get one for each message posted to the list per
>> defective
>> > email. If the list isn't kept clean, you will find yourself in the
>> position
>> > I did when Tom Weedon and I started taking care of it. It ended up 
>> > being
>> > more time consuming than Tom could handle at that time. Consequently, I
>> took
>> > it over. The non-deliverables were around five to eight hundred a day.
> You
>> > will also get to answer the emails sent regarding the list.
>> >
>> > As I said, "We'll give it a few days and see how this works!"
>> >
>> > No flame suit necessary guys,thanks for the input!
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Ed
>> > Roho2 at rcpattern.com
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Dave Harmon" <K6XYZ at valornet.com>
>> > To: "'ccmlbuck'" <ccmlbuck at comcast.net>; "'Adam Glatt'"
>> <adam.g at sasktel.net>
>> > Cc: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:14 PM
>> > Subject: RE: Mail List Changes
>> >
>> >
>> > > Now that other guys are going to the list with their thoughts....I
> guess
>> > > I will too.
>> > > Here is a personal email I just sent to Ed and Lamar....enjoy.
>> > > Flame suit on.....please don't take this personally.
>> > >
>> > > ***********
>> > > Lists are all about sharing information....much of it technical.
>> > > This very thing has ruined several amateur radio lists that were a
> great
>> > > source of the most technical info. Those users were just too lazy to
> CC
>> > > to the list....I expect it will be the same here.
>> > > It turned into a situation where some guy would ask a question and 
>> > > the
>> > > rest of the gang would never get an answer to it....even if they were
>> > > interested.
>> > > Everything was discussed behind the scenes on private email.
>> > >
>> > > Ed, this is a bad deal.....there were a few posts about off topic
> stuff
>> > > but so what?
>> > > The guy(s) complaining are going to delete almost everything anyway 
>> > > so
>> > > why not share the info globally?
>> > >
>> > > No flames Ed, but this list and the K-F is much of what holds 
>> > > together
>> > > the NSRCA and without a means of free and clear exchange of
> information
>> > > we will be in serious trouble.
>> > > If we have to lose a few guys (from the list) who cannot stand to see
>> > > anything that THEY don't want to see.....well then let them
> unsubscribe.
>> > >
>> > > Oh....Much of the contest stuff could be sent to the District
>> > > list(s)....assuming that all Districts have set them up....and they
>> > > haven't.
>> > >
>> > > Regards
>> > >
>> > > Dave Harmon
>> > > NSRCA 586
>> > > K6XYZ[at]valornet[dot]com
>> > > Broken Arrow, Ok.
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
>> > > On Behalf Of ccmlbuck
>> > > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:54 PM
>> > > To: Adam Glatt
>> > > Cc: discussion at nsrca.org
>> > > Subject: Re: Mail List Changes
>> > >
>> > > Ed,  That sounds like it will fix the personal email problem.  I 
>> > > think
>> > > most
>> > > times guys don't even realize they are sending emails to 400 people.
>> > > They
>> > > are used to emailing back and forth with the banter and don't realize
>> > > they
>> > > are on the list.  Or maybe it is just easier to click reply than to
> look
>> > > up
>> > > the address they need to send direct.  The new way should allow them
> to
>> > > easily reply to their friends and only put something out for
> discussion
>> > > that
>> > > really belongs there.  I suppose the risk now is that some won't
> bother
>> > > to
>> > > cc the group when they really do have something good to say.  I think
>> > > overall this will greatly improve the information density of the
> emails
>> > > I
>> > > receive.  Thanks for addressing the personal email issue, Craig
>> > >
>> > >          ---- Original Message -----
>> > > From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
>> > > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> > > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:25 PM
>> > > Subject: Re: Mail List Changes
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> Ed, that's terrible!  Never again will we see top secret 
>> > >> confidential
>> > >> emails meant for "your eyes only."  That was the best part of this
>> > > list.
>> > >> ;>
>> > >>
>> > >> Ed Hartley wrote:
>> > >>> Hello All
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Just as a test the mail list has been set where all replies go to
> the
>> > >
>> > >>> sender only!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> If you wish to have your reply go to the list, you Cc:
>> > >>> discussion at nsrca.org.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> We'll give it a few days and see how this works!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Ed Hartley
>> > >>> roho2 at rcpattern.com
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> =================================================
>> > >>> If you want your email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
>> > >>>
>> > >>> To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> > >>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> > >>> To be removed from this list, go to
>> > > http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> > >>> and follow the instructions.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from
> the
>> > >
>> > >>> list.
>> > >>>
>> > >> =================================================
>> > >> If you want your email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
>> > >>
>> > >> To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> > >> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> > >> To be removed from this list, go to
>> > > http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> > >> and follow the instructions.
>> > >>
>> > >> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from 
>> > >> the
>> > >> list.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > =================================================
>> > > If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the 
>> > > list!
>> > >
>> > > To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> > > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> > > To be removed from this list, go to
> http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> > > and follow the instructions.
>> > >
>> > > List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
>> > > list.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > =================================================
>> > > If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the 
>> > > list!
>> > >
>> > > To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> > > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> > > To be removed from this list, go to
> http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> > > and follow the instructions.
>> > >
>> > > List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
>> > > list.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > =================================================
>> > If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
>> >
>> > To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> > To be removed from this list, go to 
>> > http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> > and follow the instructions.
>> >
>> > List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
>> list.
>> >
>>
>> =================================================
>> If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
>>
>> To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> and follow the instructions.
>>
>> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
> list.
>>
>>
>
>
> =================================================
> If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
>
> To access the email archives for this list, go to
> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> and follow the instructions.
>
> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the 
> list.
>
>
> =================================================
> If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
>
> To access the email archives for this list, go to
> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> and follow the instructions.
>
> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the 
> list.
>
> 


=================================================
If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!

To access the email archives for this list, go to
http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
and follow the instructions.

List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the list.