Mail List Changes

Mon Sep 12 22:48:54 AKDT 2005

Ed, you control the list so I guess we're going to be giving it a try, we'll
see how it goes.

I would like to point out however that the change has already hurt the open
communication on the forum. You as the sender of the original email have
seen thirteen votes for and three against the change. The rest of us have
only seen two for and three against. I would argue that most of the replies
would have been public had you not made the change, hence the change has
already hurt the open discussion on the mailing list.

Every successful community I've seen owes its success to lots of
participation. The kiss of death isn't too many messages, it's not enough.

The real problem we have, and why people including me get tired of off-topic
emails, is that we're using a simple mailing list and not a forum. The nice
thing about forums is that everything is under a topic and you don't have to
wade through a lot of items you're not interested in to find what you want
to read. I know it's very labor intensive to setup our own forum, but there
options available. Yahoo Groups is an excellent option for SIGs. They can be
private, public, by invitation or open. The individual members choose if the
want every message emailed to them, a daily summary, or if they just wish to
read messages via the forum interface. There are search tools, a location to
share photos and files, an online chat, the ability to conduct polls, etc.
Another option is to work with one of the RC specialty forums like RCU.

This would be a radical change and may not be very popular to those that
have close emotional ties to this mailing list, but I think they're ideas
worth discussing.

I will do some research into the Yahoo Groups option.

BTW, if anyone cares to reply, please do so to the list ;-)

Keith Black

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ed Hartley" <roho2 at rcpattern.com>
To: "0ld Friends at Discussion" <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: Mail List Changes

> Hi Dave, Keith and Tom,
>
> Thanks for the comments! I tend to agree with some of your points.
However,
> I want to try this for a few days and see how it goes!
>
> Most of the guys are replying to me privately. I likewise replied to them
> privately. So far the vote is thirteen for, three against. That said, we
are
> not taking a vote, just trying to improve a bad situation.
>
> By the way, there are mail list for ALL the districts including Canada
East
> and Canada West. The districts didn't set up the list, I did and they are
> all active. http://www.nsrca.org/distsites.htm Unfortunately some don't
> choose to use them to promote their contest and other district stuff.
>
> I would almost promise the folks wanting to share their information will
Cc:
> the list. Certainly the responsible individuals will. If they are to lazy,
> then the information they wish to pass on probably isn't important. If
they
> don't know how to do it the easy way, they can email me "privately" and I
> will tell them how!
>
> Many of the list members are not members of NSRCA. I don't think the list
> plays that big a part in holding NSRCA together. In my mind the K-Factor,
> the web site, the many volunteer members and our board get credit for
that.
>
> Dan, many feel this is something more than a small insignificant problem.
I
> receive more emails than you might realize complaining about the replies.
> This is what prompted my sending the recent two most pointed emails to the
> list requesting a little judgment in how the list is used. As you can
tell,
> this resulted in little or no change.
>
> Keith, I don't have the time nor the inclination to email the offenders.
If
> you or ANY NSRCA member would like to administer/moderate this list, Get
the
> boards approval and I will set it up for you in less time than it takes
to
> read this email! Better yet, email me privately and I will see if I can
get
> the approval for you! It would please me no end for someone else to do it.
>
> A note about that! If one moderates the list, he/she will have many more
> problems than the one we are discussing! You will receive around
one-hundred
> plus emails a day for non-deliverables. The number depends on how many are
> posted to the list. Some of these are for members who have changed their
> email address and didn't bother to take themselves off along with various
> other problems. You filter through these and remove the necessary ones
> manually. If you do this properly, it will take around an hour a day
> average. You will get one for each message posted to the list per
defective
> email. If the list isn't kept clean, you will find yourself in the
position
> I did when Tom Weedon and I started taking care of it. It ended up being
> more time consuming than Tom could handle at that time. Consequently, I
took
> it over. The non-deliverables were around five to eight hundred a day. You
> will also get to answer the emails sent regarding the list.
>
> As I said, "We'll give it a few days and see how this works!"
>
> No flame suit necessary guys,thanks for the input!
>
> Best,
> Ed
> Roho2 at rcpattern.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dave Harmon" <K6XYZ at valornet.com>
> To: "'ccmlbuck'" <ccmlbuck at comcast.net>; "'Adam Glatt'"
<adam.g at sasktel.net>
> Cc: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 11:14 PM
> Subject: RE: Mail List Changes
>
>
> > Now that other guys are going to the list with their thoughts....I guess
> > I will too.
> > Here is a personal email I just sent to Ed and Lamar....enjoy.
> > Flame suit on.....please don't take this personally.
> >
> > ***********
> > Lists are all about sharing information....much of it technical.
> > This very thing has ruined several amateur radio lists that were a great
> > source of the most technical info. Those users were just too lazy to CC
> > to the list....I expect it will be the same here.
> > It turned into a situation where some guy would ask a question and the
> > rest of the gang would never get an answer to it....even if they were
> > interested.
> > Everything was discussed behind the scenes on private email.
> >
> > Ed, this is a bad deal.....there were a few posts about off topic stuff
> > but so what?
> > The guy(s) complaining are going to delete almost everything anyway so
> > why not share the info globally?
> >
> > No flames Ed, but this list and the K-F is much of what holds together
> > the NSRCA and without a means of free and clear exchange of information
> > we will be in serious trouble.
> > If we have to lose a few guys (from the list) who cannot stand to see
> > anything that THEY don't want to see.....well then let them unsubscribe.
> >
> > Oh....Much of the contest stuff could be sent to the District
> > list(s)....assuming that all Districts have set them up....and they
> > haven't.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Dave Harmon
> > NSRCA 586
> > K6XYZ[at]valornet[dot]com
> > Broken Arrow, Ok.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
> > On Behalf Of ccmlbuck
> > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:54 PM
> > To: Adam Glatt
> > Cc: discussion at nsrca.org
> > Subject: Re: Mail List Changes
> >
> > Ed,  That sounds like it will fix the personal email problem.  I think
> > most
> > times guys don't even realize they are sending emails to 400 people.
> > They
> > are used to emailing back and forth with the banter and don't realize
> > they
> > are on the list.  Or maybe it is just easier to click reply than to look
> > up
> > the address they need to send direct.  The new way should allow them to
> > easily reply to their friends and only put something out for discussion
> > that
> > really belongs there.  I suppose the risk now is that some won't bother
> > to
> > cc the group when they really do have something good to say.  I think
> > overall this will greatly improve the information density of the emails
> > I
> > receive.  Thanks for addressing the personal email issue, Craig
> >
> >          ---- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Adam Glatt" <adam.g at sasktel.net>
> > To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> > Sent: Monday, September 12, 2005 9:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: Mail List Changes
> >
> >
> >> Ed, that's terrible!  Never again will we see top secret confidential
> >> emails meant for "your eyes only."  That was the best part of this
> > list.
> >> ;>
> >>
> >> Ed Hartley wrote:
> >>> Hello All
> >>>
> >>> Just as a test the mail list has been set where all replies go to the
> >
> >>> sender only!
> >>>
> >>> If you wish to have your reply go to the list, you Cc:
> >>> discussion at nsrca.org.
> >>>
> >>> We'll give it a few days and see how this works!
> >>>
> >>> Ed Hartley
> >>> roho2 at rcpattern.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> =================================================
> >>> If you want your email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
> >>>
> >>> To access the email archives for this list, go to
> >>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> >>> To be removed from this list, go to
> > http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> >>> and follow the instructions.
> >>>
> >>> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
> >
> >>> list.
> >>>
> >> =================================================
> >> If you want your email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
> >>
> >> To access the email archives for this list, go to
> >> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> >> To be removed from this list, go to
> > http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> >> and follow the instructions.
> >>
> >> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
> >> list.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > =================================================
> > If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
> >
> > To access the email archives for this list, go to
> > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> > To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> > and follow the instructions.
> >
> > List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
> > list.
> >
> >
> >
> > =================================================
> > If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
> >
> > To access the email archives for this list, go to
> > http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> > To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> > and follow the instructions.
> >
> > List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
> > list.
> >
> >
>
> =================================================
> If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!
>
> To access the email archives for this list, go to
> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> and follow the instructions.
>
> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the
list.
>

=================================================
If you want your reply email to go to the list, you must Cc: the list!

To access the email archives for this list, go to
http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
and follow the instructions.

List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the list.