Rules Changes----Advancement

[BUDDYonRC at aol.com]

What about letting him start in any class he feels comfortable in with the  
stipulation that his first year back he will not be eligible and will not  
accumulate points for the DC in that class if it is a class that is a  lower class 
than the one he left. 
 
 I think there is also merit in letting someone move up for a contest  to 
test their skills without loosing the option of moving back down, If they  have 
gained the skill required for the higher class they will most likely stay  
there but if they havent and are forced to stay in the higher class they may  
become discouraged and quit.
Buddy

 
Mark, although most people don't park in a class, I have experienced  a 
couple instances where a guy actually wins the DC in his class one  year, takes the 
next year off for whatever reason, then he returns back in his  old class. I 
appreciate the fact that he returned and like the added  attendance, but some 
of his fellow competitors may not agree.
 
What I am saying is a Checks and Balances system needs to be in place  such 
that this type of situation is controlled. I admit it doesn't happen  often and 
may not be viewed as a big deal by the higher class pilots, but it  raises 
the eyebrows of the guys it affects. At present the policing is  supposed to be 
done by the DVP. As a past DVP, I didn't care for the idea of  telling someone 
when to move. 
 
The DVPs need a better tool. At the same time, the tool needs to be  flexible 
enough so that that the guys without enough skill aren't forced up.  I've 
seen this situation also. 
 
Careful schedule design and more frequent change may alleviate some of  the 
concern. The parkers could, in effect, start fresh every year, just as the  new 
guys entering a class. That places different burden on the group designing  
schedules and on the AMA CB approving them. 
 
regards
MattK
 
 
In a message dated 3/8/2005 8:38:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,  DaveL322 at co
mcast.net writes:

Mark,

It is rare and an exception - I guess I don't see the  harm in keeping a rule
around that would give "us" some teeth to prevent  a trophy hog.

I am a little concerned (as MattK) that if we totally  deleted the point
system, we might encourage a trophy hog.

I'm  thinking we have room to adjust the point system without deleting  it.

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Atwood,  Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
To:  <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 8:07  PM
Subject: RE: Rules Changes----Advancement


Dave,

Have  you actually experienced any "trophy hogs"?  Maybe I'm naïve, but  I
haven't really experienced this.  We've on rare occasion had  someone "hang"
in a class for an extra half season in hopes of doing well  at the Nats
before moving up, but even that's been rare.

We always  talk/worry about the trophy hog, but I guess I see that as a
hollow fear  from my end.  Just curious what you've actually experienced in
the  sandbagging ranks.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From:  discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]  On
Behalf Of David Lockhart
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 7:42  PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Fw: Rules  Changes----Advancement

I agree with Matt that changes in this area  should be made with caution.

I like the idea that a pilot could fly a  higher class for fun and to test
the waters, and then drop back to their  regular class.

I like the idea that somebody having an off year  (reduced time or equipment
in a given year) can drop back a class to make  it easier for them to compete
and have fun.

I have no problem with  a pilot "demoting" themselves to stay in the event
and have fun (so long  as they don't end up perpetually at the top of their
new chosen  class).

I think very few people are interested in forcing a pilot to  "move up"
simply because they accumulated enough points - pilots should  move up when
they have aquired the skills to fly in the next class, and  when they are
clearly superior to others in their class - ie, they are  sand-baggers /
trophy hogs which I don't think are good for the  event.

The point system is rarely used - but I think it would be easy  enough to
enforce - most NSRCA Districts track points for the annual  District Champs
using some kind of system.  It wouldn't be too hard  to use data captured in
the District Champs tracking to figure out AMA  advancement points.  I think
we are fortunate that most pilots do  move up at appropriate times, but
having a mechanism in place to pressure  a few exceptions is a nice option to
have.  I would absolutely  support using the AMA advancement point system to
force a pilot to move  up who clearly belonged in a higher class, but stayed
put to be a trophy  hog.

To that end, I think the point system should remain on the books  - and maybe
we could modify it such that it would be more likely to force  trophy hogs to
move up, and less likely to ever push a career guy out of  his class.  There
are a number of ways that could be  done.

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From:  Rcmaster199 at aol.com
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 08,  2005 5:08 PM
Subject: Re: Rules Changes----Advancement


I  believe that this may open a different can of worms. It's true that  some
guys attend contests simply for the fun and camaraderie of the  flying, but
there is a whole nother set of troops that attends to  compete. In my
opinion, this is the largest of the two, by wide margin.  These folks want to

win, place or show and really try hard to do  their best. The former group
may not care as much about doing its best;  just being there is good enough.
But it is still an extremely important  group nontheless.

It seems to me that there are a bunch of guys,  (Masters in D3 is a good
example) that are very good in their present  class(most of us are quite
evenly matched), and some of these may decide  to drop down a class and park
for a while. Taking that skill level down  to Advanced could demoralize the
Advanced level guys that want to really  compete, and could actually have the
exact opposite effect from that  desired. I wouldn't want any Advanced
competitor to leave the sport  because of an infusion of Masters class guys
re-entering the  class

We agree on the fact that the points system is silly and  unenforceable.

Having said all that, I wouldn't be aversed to a trial  run of such a rule.
Reconvene after the trial period was over and make a  decision on its
success--failure. Then make a final decision and have  buy-in from the CB up
front to either make a change, or not. Having CB  buy-in up front will
alleviate some of the acremonious debate we have  seen in past issues.

I recommend caution either way. This indeed is  unchartered territory, at
least in my 27 years, and demands careful  thought. I like the fact that the
committee is thinking in different and  challenging ways to improve the sport
for everyone, eventhough THIS  committee's charter is to build schedules and
not  rules.


MattK

PS- one more thought on this: it may turn out  that no self respecting
Masters competitor will move down to Advanced, or  Advanced down to
Intermediate. Then this suggested approach could work.  Convincing the AMA CB
will be the trick



In a message dated  3/8/2005 4:20:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
patternrules at earthlink.net  writes:
From: Troy A. Newman
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent:  3/8/2005 2:18:31 PM
Subject: [SPAM] Rules changes  Advancement


Buddy,
I have been really quiet lately. I don't  think the changes you are looking
at are going to increase pattern  participation. The weight and box limits
in my opinion are good and don't  need jacking with......

I know you and Don are working hard at it. We  on the sequence committee are
as well. I don't think changing the box is  going to help us. I really don't
think changes to the weights or sizes is  going to help us....

I want to weigh in here so to speak on something  that I feel will help
pattern grow in changes to the rule book. I feel  most changes to the rule
book are going to make us more elite or a more  secret way you have to do
things. Guys that are even in our ranks don't  read the rules so why make
them even more specialized..and so  on.








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