Scoring formula

Sat Jul 30 07:17:37 AKDT 2005

"Just as an FYI if you do "score lower" you do force the system to count the
next lowest score. So you would have the correct effect in a drop-high-low
system."

Hmm - pilot does a wrong maneuver (nicely) that's caught by only one judge. 
Scores are 10-9-8-7-0, an average yields 6.8, dropping the high and low 
yields 8, both choices are poor when the correct score is zero.

However, this may all be irrelevant for next years Nats if F3A is to also 
serve as the Team Selection event for 2007 (very likely, the Team Selection 
Committee Chairperson is selected and the process begins after the '05 WC). 
The AMA requires: " The finals contest is to be conducted in accordance with 
the FAI rules which are scheduled to be in effect at the world championship 
for which the selection is taking place". Also: "The AMA Competition 
Regulations does not apply to team selection contests. The only applicable 
rules for team selection contests are the AMA By-Laws and standing rules, 
the approved program details, the current FAI Sporting Code, and this 
document". All
this according to the AMA booklet entitled "World Championship Teams - 
Procedures Governing The Academy's Sponsorship of FAI Teams".

While there is latitude in the FAI rules for variations at the Nats, neither 
AMA nor FAI appear to allow this for Team Selections with the exception of 
"approved program details" which are the responsibility of the Team 
Selection Committee. It seems best to establish a procedure for both that is 
consistent with the rules, whether we like them or not.

Earl

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Grow Pattern" <pattern4u at comcast.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Scoring formula

> Bob,
>         I'm with you on the feelings. Had a similar set this year.
>
> Just as an FYI if you do "score lower" you do force the system to count 
> the next lowest score. So you would have the correct effect in a 
> drop-high-low system.
>
> The problems and challenges that I am working on for next year's Nat's as 
> follows.
>
> 1. Making sure we score FAI as per their rules.
> 2. Getting the AMA rules book or whatever to be clear on what should be 
> done.
> 3. Getting XP supported software that will do both high/low and TBL. (FAI 
> and AMA)
> 4. Publishing how it all works.
> 5, Publishing how it will all be done.
> 6. Printing a clear explanation of the Matrix system and how it will be 
> used.
> 7. Making sure all Nat's attendees know what to expect before they get to 
> the event.
>
> Right now I am finishing up the equipment survey data entry, putting names 
> to all of the photos for our web-site and the Nat's attendee survey 
> results for the K-Factor.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eric.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Bob Pastorello" <rcaerobob at cox.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 6:10 AM
> Subject: Re: Scoring formula
>
>
>>I remember a Nats (a few years' back) when I *was* the toughest judge on 
>>the FAI line, both Prelims and Finals.  I know because the CD came up and 
>>told me "you're being too hard".  Okay.  After it was all done, my higher 
>>scores tracked the overall placements of the standings pretty darn well. 
>>I felt pretty good about that, because there were some pretty high-falutin 
>>judges on my panel with me!!
>>
>> Then I learned - quite by accident - that my scores HAD been tossed. 
>> EVERY round that I sat there, doing my damndest to be consistent, fair, 
>> and downgrade by the rulebook....in the heat and wind, only to learn that 
>> I DID NOT NEED TO BE THERE !!!!!
>>
>> Some stupid jerk actually had the gall to justify that by telling me 
>> "since your scores got tossed, that makes the other judges' scores more 
>> accurate". I didn't wring that guys' neck....but he also made it to my 
>> list of "persons likely to be left out of my will".... :-)
>>
>> Actually had someone ask me a couple years later, "Why don't you get 
>> certified, Bob?"
>>
>> I'll put my judging consistency and skill up against anyone's..... but 
>> not if it's gonna be thrown out later.  As difficult as it is to train, 
>> and then *recruit* judges at big events, WHY would anyone want to toss 
>> their efforts in the trash????   Why bother to play at all, if there is 
>> no more value placed on someone's best effort than that?
>>
>> Bob Pastorello
>> www.rcaerobats.net
>> rcaerobob at cox.net
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:16 PM
>> Subject: RE: Scoring formula
>>
>>
>> I have to agree with Derek on this one, 100%.
>>
>> The conventional thought on "throwing out Highs and lows" is that you'll
>> get rid of the spurious ZERO from some Snap-roll nazi  along with the
>> gift "10" that the pilot's buddy awarded him.   That could be true.
>>
>> But what really happens...the down side... Is that the toughest judge on
>> the panel...get's EVERY SCORE THROWN OUT...   He might as well pack up
>> and go home.   Same is true for the "easy" judge.  Forget about the fact
>> that they're consistent...  Tossing Highs and Low's doesn't really care.
>> In fact...the more consistently "tough" they are...the more likely that
>> they wasted their time.
>>
>> TBL on the other hand looks at judges across the entire pool of flyers..
>> If a judge is consistently tough...fine.  But if he's tough on 8
>> pilots...and easy on 2...it's going to catch it.  Same goes for the easy
>> judge that's suddenly tough.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
>> On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:30 PM
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>> Subject: RE: Scoring formula
>>
>> There is a big difference between TBLP and TBL.  TBL does not change
>> individual maneuver scores at all - it may change the overall round
>> score
>> for a judge based on how that judge has scored other pilots and relative
>> to
>> that judges' scores compared to the other judges.
>>
>> I have given explanations of what TBL is several times - certain people
>> are
>> set in their ways and will not open up their minds to understanding
>> statistical methods.  I can equate TBL vs high-low throw out to people's
>> understanding of the impact on turnaround in pattern.
>>
>> The problem with high-low discard is that you are eliminating the work
>> of
>> 40% of your judges scores if 5 judges are used.  Is that fair to the
>> judges
>> and pilots?  TBL changes that by keeping about 90% of all judges scores.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
>> On
>> Behalf Of Grow Pattern
>> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 6:13 PM
>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>> Subject: Re: Scoring formula
>>
>> Check this out I was researching TBL formulae and I ran across this. The
>> parallelisms of the full-size aerobatic world to our world are pretty
>> scary.
>>
>> _ Eric
>> ================To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> and follow the instructions.
>>
>> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the 
>> list.
>>
>> =================================================
>> To access the email archives for this list, go to
>> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
>> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
>> and follow the instructions.
>>
>> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the 
>> list.
>>
>
> =================================================
> To access the email archives for this list, go to
> http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
> To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
> and follow the instructions.
>
> List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the 
> list.
>
> 

=================================================
To access the email archives for this list, go to
http://lists.f3a.us/pipermail/nsrca-discussion/
To be removed from this list, go to http://www.nsrca.org/discussionA.htm
and follow the instructions.

List members email returned for mailbox full will be removed from the list.