Scoring formula

[Cameron Smith]

Very Nice!  Do you think the ranking number spread could be made public?


-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
On Behalf Of Don Ramsey
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:59 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Scoring formula

There will be judge evaluation done on the finals judges.  5 judges is a

minimum  to do any kind of reasonable evaluation.  There are some
software 
issues but they will be resolved and we will have numbers.

Don



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cameron Smith" <dentdoc007 at adelphia.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: Scoring formula


>
>
> Where there any Judge ranking numbers produced from this years NATS?
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
> On Behalf Of Bob Pastorello
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 6:10 AM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Scoring formula
>
> I remember a Nats (a few years' back) when I *was* the toughest judge
on
> the
> FAI line, both Prelims and Finals.  I know because the CD came up and
> told
> me "you're being too hard".  Okay.  After it was all done, my higher
> scores
> tracked the overall placements of the standings pretty darn well.  I
> felt
> pretty good about that, because there were some pretty high-falutin
> judges
> on my panel with me!!
>
> Then I learned - quite by accident - that my scores HAD been tossed.
> EVERY
> round that I sat there, doing my damndest to be consistent, fair, and
> downgrade by the rulebook....in the heat and wind, only to learn that
I
> DID
> NOT NEED TO BE THERE !!!!!
>
> Some stupid jerk actually had the gall to justify that by telling me
> "since
> your scores got tossed, that makes the other judges' scores more
> accurate".
> I didn't wring that guys' neck....but he also made it to my list of
> "persons
> likely to be left out of my will".... :-)
>
> Actually had someone ask me a couple years later, "Why don't you get
> certified, Bob?"
>
> I'll put my judging consistency and skill up against anyone's..... but
> not
> if it's gonna be thrown out later.  As difficult as it is to train,
and
> then
> *recruit* judges at big events, WHY would anyone want to toss their
> efforts
> in the trash????   Why bother to play at all, if there is no more
value
> placed on someone's best effort than that?
>
> Bob Pastorello
> www.rcaerobats.net
> rcaerobob at cox.net
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Atwood, Mark" <atwoodm at paragon-inc.com>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:16 PM
> Subject: RE: Scoring formula
>
>
> I have to agree with Derek on this one, 100%.
>
> The conventional thought on "throwing out Highs and lows" is that
you'll
> get rid of the spurious ZERO from some Snap-roll nazi  along with the
> gift "10" that the pilot's buddy awarded him.   That could be true.
>
> But what really happens...the down side... Is that the toughest judge
on
> the panel...get's EVERY SCORE THROWN OUT...   He might as well pack up
> and go home.   Same is true for the "easy" judge.  Forget about the
fact
> that they're consistent...  Tossing Highs and Low's doesn't really
care.
> In fact...the more consistently "tough" they are...the more likely
that
> they wasted their time.
>
> TBL on the other hand looks at judges across the entire pool of
flyers..
> If a judge is consistently tough...fine.  But if he's tough on 8
> pilots...and easy on 2...it's going to catch it.  Same goes for the
easy
> judge that's suddenly tough.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
> On Behalf Of Derek Koopowitz
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 10:30 PM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: RE: Scoring formula
>
> There is a big difference between TBLP and TBL.  TBL does not change
> individual maneuver scores at all - it may change the overall round
> score
> for a judge based on how that judge has scored other pilots and
relative
> to
> that judges' scores compared to the other judges.
>
> I have given explanations of what TBL is several times - certain
people
> are
> set in their ways and will not open up their minds to understanding
> statistical methods.  I can equate TBL vs high-low throw out to
people's
> understanding of the impact on turnaround in pattern.
>
> The problem with high-low discard is that you are eliminating the work
> of
> 40% of your judges scores if 5 judges are used.  Is that fair to the
> judges
> and pilots?  TBL changes that by keeping about 90% of all judges
scores.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Grow Pattern
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 6:13 PM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: Scoring formula
>
> Check this out I was researching TBL formulae and I ran across this.
The
> parallelisms of the full-size aerobatic world to our world are pretty
> scary.
>
> _ Eric
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