Throt/ Rud

Dean Pappas d.pappas at kodeos.com
Thu Jan 27 05:52:03 AKST 2005


That's right Nat!
Direct yaw sensing ... That's the solution.
Regards,
	Dean

Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com


-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Nat Penton
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:39 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Re: Throt/ Rud


Mass flow/velocity hmmmm. We could have an auto-fin controlled by a vane 
(sensor) located immediately ahead of the fin.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Hunt" <flyintexan at houston.rr.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Throt/ Rud


>I read Chip's thread a while back when it was posted on RCU and I 
>immediately tried it out on the simulator....which was nice because of the 
>controlled environment (no wind, change eng. thrust at will, etc., etc.) 
>and it really does work well.  I think it works much better over a wider 
>range of speeds and throttle settings than our standard, "fixed" angle 
>solution which, as we know, works correctly for one speed, one attitude, 
>and one throttle setting.  However, the mixing allows the rudder come into 
>play based on throttle position only, not speed of the aircraft, which is 
>also a factor.  Now, if we had a way to mix in rudder, based on a real-time 
>calculation of airflow (mass airflow and velocity-airspeed) over the 
>vertical fin, I could really score well...lol....or I could just practice 
>more.
>
> When I first got hooked on pattern, I overhearing someone ask Glen Watson: 
> "how is it that I never see you using rudder when I watch your plane 
> fly?"...his reply:  "I never stop using the rudder when I'm flying."
>
>
> -Mark
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jim Ivey" <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Throt/ Rud
>
>
>> Guys
>> In this months Model Aviation (page98)Radio Control Scale Aerobatics, 
>> Peter Goldsmith has a informative article about trimming a plane and 
>> thrust. He explains that the thrust angle needed is  dependant on the 
>> airspeed and that there is a range of flight parameters that only relate 
>> to our needs so far as trimming is concerned.He has some excellant ideas 
>> here that may further tell us what we need to know, with respect to 
>> trimming thrust line and rudder trim.
>> It's obvious that Chips ideas work for him and Peters ideas work for him.
>> Grab your AMA mag. and read.
>>
>> Jim Ivey
>>>
>>> From: "Ed Hartley" <roho2 at rcpattern.com>
>>> Date: 2005/01/26 Wed PM 10:34:52 EST
>>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>> Subject: Re: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>> Think about having the trim and thrust where you don't have to do 
>>> either?????
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>   From: John Pavlick
>>>   To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>   Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:13 PM
>>>   Subject: RE: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>>
>>>   Ed,
>>>    Don't think about inverted / upright / right / left like that. It's 
>>> all the same to the airplane. Upright the slip stream hits the left side 
>>> of the fin causing Left yaw. For sake of argument: Right thrust will be 
>>> used to counteract this. Inverted, the SAME THING happens. Don't think 
>>> right / left in reference to YOU, think left / right in reference to the 
>>> AIRPLANE. When inverted the slip stream hits the left side (still) of 
>>> the fin - unless the motor suddenly starts turning the opposite way. 
>>> Same thrust offset ("Right") required unless the slip stream goes away 
>>> in a push. Now if there's right thrust, you need left rudder to offset 
>>> the right thrust which is trying to make the airplane yaw right in the 
>>> absence of the slip stream air on the fin. If you still want to think 
>>> about it the "other" way, remember "left" rudder when inverted will make 
>>> the plane yaw to the "right" (in reference to YOU standing there 
>>> watching the plane). Now I'm getting confused.
>>>    If you think about what Chip described: Trim for straight flight at 
>>> full throttle, mix left at idle. Another way would be trim straight at 
>>> idle, mix right at full throttle. That's what I've been doing. Same 
>>> difference.
>>>   John Pavlick
>>>   http://www.idseng.com
>>>
>>>
>>>     -----Original Message-----
>>>     From: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
>>> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Edward Skorepa
>>>     Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:15 PM
>>>     To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>     Subject: Re: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>>
>>>     I'm confused too. I know, I know I shouldn't argue with someone like 
>>> chip but I believe the main reason we're putting right thrust is an 
>>> asymmetric vertical fin. On most conventional airplanes the area above 
>>> thrust line is much greater then area below. So, the spiraling slip 
>>> stream  will hit the top portion of the vertical fin from the left 
>>> pushing tail to the right thus right thrust. When inverted, the 
>>> spiraling slip stream will hit vertical fin from the right because fin 
>>> is now on the opposite side and  pushes tail to the left. To straighten 
>>> the flight path, we need now the left thrust which is already there. 
>>> During inverted push ups, why do we need to use left rudder? The 
>>> spiraling slip stream misses completely vertical fin and the right (left 
>>> when inverted) thrust is causing airplane to yaw left. If you have a big 
>>> gasser, turn on smoke, do inverted push up and watch where the smoke 
>>> goes. However, Chip's approach of fixing the inverted push ups problem 
>>> is quite interesting a
>>>     ed
>>>       ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>       From: Nat Penton
>>>       To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>>       Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:32 AM
>>>       Subject: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>>
>>>       Cameron Smith relayed comments from Chip ( from RCU ) relating to 
>>> how he uses a mix to eliminate the need for right thrust. I know Chip 
>>> knows but he left me confused. Could someone clarify what he said?
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>       Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
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>>>       Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 
>>> 1/17/2005
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>>>
>>
>>
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