Throt/ Rud
Dean Pappas
d.pappas at kodeos.com
Thu Jan 27 05:52:03 AKST 2005
That's right Nat!
Direct yaw sensing ... That's the solution.
Regards,
Dean
Dean Pappas
Sr. Design Engineer
Kodeos Communications
111 Corporate Blvd.
South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
(908) 222-7817 phone
(908) 222-2392 fax
d.pappas at kodeos.com
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Nat Penton
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 1:39 AM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: Re: Throt/ Rud
Mass flow/velocity hmmmm. We could have an auto-fin controlled by a vane
(sensor) located immediately ahead of the fin.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hunt" <flyintexan at houston.rr.com>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Throt/ Rud
>I read Chip's thread a while back when it was posted on RCU and I
>immediately tried it out on the simulator....which was nice because of the
>controlled environment (no wind, change eng. thrust at will, etc., etc.)
>and it really does work well. I think it works much better over a wider
>range of speeds and throttle settings than our standard, "fixed" angle
>solution which, as we know, works correctly for one speed, one attitude,
>and one throttle setting. However, the mixing allows the rudder come into
>play based on throttle position only, not speed of the aircraft, which is
>also a factor. Now, if we had a way to mix in rudder, based on a real-time
>calculation of airflow (mass airflow and velocity-airspeed) over the
>vertical fin, I could really score well...lol....or I could just practice
>more.
>
> When I first got hooked on pattern, I overhearing someone ask Glen Watson:
> "how is it that I never see you using rudder when I watch your plane
> fly?"...his reply: "I never stop using the rudder when I'm flying."
>
>
> -Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Ivey" <jivey61 at bellsouth.net>
> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Re: Throt/ Rud
>
>
>> Guys
>> In this months Model Aviation (page98)Radio Control Scale Aerobatics,
>> Peter Goldsmith has a informative article about trimming a plane and
>> thrust. He explains that the thrust angle needed is dependant on the
>> airspeed and that there is a range of flight parameters that only relate
>> to our needs so far as trimming is concerned.He has some excellant ideas
>> here that may further tell us what we need to know, with respect to
>> trimming thrust line and rudder trim.
>> It's obvious that Chips ideas work for him and Peters ideas work for him.
>> Grab your AMA mag. and read.
>>
>> Jim Ivey
>>>
>>> From: "Ed Hartley" <roho2 at rcpattern.com>
>>> Date: 2005/01/26 Wed PM 10:34:52 EST
>>> To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
>>> Subject: Re: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>> Think about having the trim and thrust where you don't have to do
>>> either?????
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: John Pavlick
>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 10:13 PM
>>> Subject: RE: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>>
>>> Ed,
>>> Don't think about inverted / upright / right / left like that. It's
>>> all the same to the airplane. Upright the slip stream hits the left side
>>> of the fin causing Left yaw. For sake of argument: Right thrust will be
>>> used to counteract this. Inverted, the SAME THING happens. Don't think
>>> right / left in reference to YOU, think left / right in reference to the
>>> AIRPLANE. When inverted the slip stream hits the left side (still) of
>>> the fin - unless the motor suddenly starts turning the opposite way.
>>> Same thrust offset ("Right") required unless the slip stream goes away
>>> in a push. Now if there's right thrust, you need left rudder to offset
>>> the right thrust which is trying to make the airplane yaw right in the
>>> absence of the slip stream air on the fin. If you still want to think
>>> about it the "other" way, remember "left" rudder when inverted will make
>>> the plane yaw to the "right" (in reference to YOU standing there
>>> watching the plane). Now I'm getting confused.
>>> If you think about what Chip described: Trim for straight flight at
>>> full throttle, mix left at idle. Another way would be trim straight at
>>> idle, mix right at full throttle. That's what I've been doing. Same
>>> difference.
>>> John Pavlick
>>> http://www.idseng.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
>>> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Edward Skorepa
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:15 PM
>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>> Subject: Re: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm confused too. I know, I know I shouldn't argue with someone like
>>> chip but I believe the main reason we're putting right thrust is an
>>> asymmetric vertical fin. On most conventional airplanes the area above
>>> thrust line is much greater then area below. So, the spiraling slip
>>> stream will hit the top portion of the vertical fin from the left
>>> pushing tail to the right thus right thrust. When inverted, the
>>> spiraling slip stream will hit vertical fin from the right because fin
>>> is now on the opposite side and pushes tail to the left. To straighten
>>> the flight path, we need now the left thrust which is already there.
>>> During inverted push ups, why do we need to use left rudder? The
>>> spiraling slip stream misses completely vertical fin and the right (left
>>> when inverted) thrust is causing airplane to yaw left. If you have a big
>>> gasser, turn on smoke, do inverted push up and watch where the smoke
>>> goes. However, Chip's approach of fixing the inverted push ups problem
>>> is quite interesting a
>>> ed
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Nat Penton
>>> To: discussion at nsrca.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 11:32 AM
>>> Subject: Throt/ Rud
>>>
>>>
>>> Cameron Smith relayed comments from Chip ( from RCU ) relating to
>>> how he uses a mix to eliminate the need for right thrust. I know Chip
>>> knows but he left me confused. Could someone clarify what he said?
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
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>>> 1/17/2005
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>>
>>
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