Judge Feedback

[Ed Deaver]

Rather than asking Judges, it is very effective to find someone, usually the same class or above, ask them to watch your flight and give some pointers.  This doesn't violate any percieve Judging fairness, and most pilots I have asked are happy to do so, within the realm of not interfering with their flight prep etc etc.
 
Also, for those going to contests on Fri to practice, this is where I get a large amount of usefull info also.  Much friendlier atmosphere and, as it were, more joking and ribbing(when appropriate) also.
 
Ed

Andre Bouchard <akfai at gci.net> wrote:
Philosophically, I believe that judges providing feedback to contestants, or contestants soliciting feedback during a contest is inappropriate, if not unethical.  If the feedback were shared among all contestants, then maybe no inequities would be created, but this is not what happens in practice, nor can it practically.
 
I appreciate the interest in nurturing the sport and helping the newcomer, but who decides when a person gets feedback and when they do not.  Terry suggests feedback might be permissible in Sportsman.  I can see the value in that, but again, unless the feedback for each contestant is shared with all the contests in the class, someone is being advantaged or disadvantaged.  How is letting one guy have a re-flight when his engine dies during a round any different from giving the same guy a pointer about his flying and not his competition?
 
It is not just the Sportsman pilot that the feedback is being given to; in my experience, judge feedback, judge initiated or contestant initiated, occurs in all classes at most contests.  At major contests, for example the World Championships, care is taken to avoid contact between judges and contestants.  Why?...To avoid biasing the results.  It is a matter of fairness, and of ethics/professionalism.
 
If we are going to openly give feedback at contests, then we need formal guidelines in the same way we need guidelines for judging maneuvers--uniform application.
 
I think a better forum for the newcomer to get feedback on his flying would be to have pattern seminars (flying) along the lines of what was done in Houston in spring 2004.
 
Andre' 
 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Terry Terrenoire 
To: discussion at nsrca.org 
Cc: discussion at nsrca.org 
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: Judge Feedback


While I certainly respect Earl's comments, he has a long history that gives him some insite, I cold not disagree more. Taken as a whole they have great merit, but i don't see them applying to the Sportsman level. I some cases I have seen Sportsman entrants fly maneuvers the way they believed they should look, but were completely wrong. most of the constructive criticisms I have rendered from the chair were of a very general nature. "establish a line between manuvers", "call box entries and exits" "if you get the wings level before entry your loops will be easier to keep on path"
 
I don't think the judes will be saying anything that causes conflict between them when critiquing at the Sportsman level. All the comments I have made to these pilots has been genuinely appreciated.
 
We have to remember that a lot of them have noone at their home field to help them. They may be trying this for the first time, and if we can give them some good help, it may bring them back!!
 
Terry T.
 
 
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:15:04 -0600 "Earl Haury" <ehaury at houston.rr.com> writes:
Here are some considerations regarding judges providing feedback to competitors the we should address. 
 
The key word is "competitors". Judges score individuals performances in competitions that are held to ascertain the relative skills of competitors to perform according to stated rules and descriptions. Being a competition - one should assume that flyers present their patterns to the unbiased judge sets and the let scores describe the ranking. 
 
The presumption is that the competitors arrive prepared to compete. Those who have worked the hardest on this preparation will (and should) generally excel. A pattern contest isn't intended to be a training ground, but a review of achievement and peer comparison. Judges who provide feedback have good intentions, but there are questions that deserve attention. Isn't the job of the judge to provide the correct score for each maneuver? Is it appropriate for the judge to (mis)direct attention to make notations for post flight feedback? Will the feedback be consistent to all competitors, or "buddy biased"? Is it fair to my competition for judges to point out my errors so that I can correct them in subsequent flights? If judges with largely different scores on a specific maneuver offer feedback and disagree - then what? In the latter, will this disagreement influence a judge to change standards mid-round? What if some wish to discuss feedback, or argue with it, at the expense of  delaying
 the next flight?  What if this agitates the judges and you're next up? 
 
I realize that the gist of the feedback issue is to benefit the newbie, but the above points apply here also. We seem to accept that anyone, without practice or proper equipment or preparation (reading the rules), should be able to fly successfully in some form of "beginner" class. This doesn't happen - and we've fiddled with the rules of the beginner class for years to little avail. Unfortunately, the judges feedback at a contest isn't going to help the unprepared. What will help is mentoring - but not from the judges chair! 
 
The best place to help the newbie is at the practice field where everything can be addressed. Coach these folks, provide feedback and assistance. Judge flights, take notes, and critique. Help trim their airplane, be supportive with equipment maintenance, etc. Get them prepared for those first contests, call for them, critique their flights, evaluate their scores, help them in every way as a coach and friend, and pattern will gain in numbers. Just don't do this from the judges chair - judging is the only job then. 
 
Earl
 
 
 
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