Class Structure
Grow Pattern
pattern4u at comcast.net
Tue Jan 11 14:40:14 AKST 2005
Ken,
It's time to design a new ladder. Want to see one or do one?
Regards,
Eric.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Velez
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
Vern I totally agree with you on the fact that the jump from intermediate is a huge one. Most pilots when they move to intermediate are barely getting into speed with the airplane instead of been behind it, I know I was, but I don't think that the snap is any harder than the 3 rolls we used to have in fact I think the snap is easier. Probably that's why the made it 2 instead of 3 but now they also lost the immelmann and the snap whish also makes the sequence shorter. How much more does it has to be simplified and it's bleeding into advance. I still think that making the snap more simple and also at a higher altitude following the immelmann and not pointing down in a 45 is a good stepping stone into advance rather than lowering Advance to close the gap that we created. Just mi opinion.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: Verne Koester
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
Ken,
I'm probably going to get blasted for this one, but I think it is too hard for many of the pilots coming out of Sportsman. I judge an awful lot of Intermediate pilots through the course of a summer. I see some that are doing quite well who should be making the move to Advanced. I see many others that get into all kinds of box trouble trying to fly turnaround in a crosswind and just as many that merely survive the two rolls rather than fly it. I've seen instances where a third roll would've meant carnage. There are few that do the rolls quite well but many more that don't. I fail to see the logic or safety of adding a snap to pilots at that stage. I think the class as it stands has plenty of lessons to be learned and that should be learned. I really believe that Advanced is way too big of a jump coming out Intermediate and made these same arguments as these schedules were being developed. Just my opinion but it's based on experience and what I see. All of this is moot for a couple of years anyhow. It would be inappropriate for a CB Member to submit proposed schedules, at least I think it would, so any proposed changes will have to come from you guys.
Verne
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Velez
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: Class Structure
Hey Vern instead of taking the snap out of Advance why don't we incorporate back in Intermediate the immelmann to the top and do a horizontal snap in the center, no 45 down no figures just a clean straight and level snap at center to finish the sequence. Introduces the snap into intermediate and isn't too difficult for the sportsman coming up. Just a thought.
Ken
----- Original Message -----
From: Verne Koester
To: NSRCA
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 6:58 PM
Subject: Class Structure
Georgie,
Here's a novel idea. Leave Intermediate alone and take the snaps out of
Advanced. A pilot coming out of Intermediate into Advanced already has to
learn Slow Rolls, 4 Point Rolls, and a longer schedule with more crosswind
exposure maneuvers which is plenty.
The step from Advanced to Masters is minimal at best. The step from
Intermediate to Advanced is monumental. The end result is a bunch of pilots
in Intermediate that are getting bored with their schedule but still not
ready for Advanced so they want to add snaps to it. Only problem is that
someone coming out of Sportsman will likely be scared away if Intermediate
is made any tougher.
It's no surprise to me that the number of Masters pilots at any given
contest are far greater than the classes that precede it. Most of us who are
there came up through a balanced system of steps. We're all out of whack
right now. Unfortunately, I seem to be one of only a handful of Masters and
higher pilots that still remembers how hard it was to learn slow and 4 point
rolls which gets introduced at the Advanced level. Take the snaps and spins
out of Advanced and introduce them at the Masters level, put some box exits
back where they need to be, and you'll have a logical, balanced, and
transitional set of schedules that takes a pilot from Sportsman to however
high he or she wants to go.
Verne Koester
----- Original Message -----
From: "George Kennie" <geobet at gis.net>
To: <discussion at nsrca.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again
and
> <<I'm not flying masters, I'm flying advanced, the reason is
> Masters is
> more difficult than I think I can reasonably fly at this time, so
> I'll work my way up. >>
>
> I respectfully disagree with your assessment of schedule difficulty.
> I get the feeling that you haven't taken the time to sit down and
> really study the current Master's sequence. I commend your attitude
> of working your way up!!!IMHO, I find the current Master's much less
> threatening than the Advanced sequence.
>
> Somebody mentioned "going to contests without practicing", and
> indeed I can remember, back in the 60's going to a contest myself
> having never performed the required routine and doing quite well at
> the time.However those were significantly different times and I
> myself would not desire to return to the mindset of that period.It
> was called a "Pattern Contest" and the attendance was probably a
> couple of hundred guys, but the mindset was more like a current day
> "Fun- Fly". Nobody really took it all that seriously. Somewhere
> along the line, the few individuals that did have a more serious
> approach organized and brought a more serious aspect to the sport
> realizing that the basis for guys going out and flying a routine
> that was in fact JUDGED meant that the concept must
> be"COMPETITION". I think that this is probably the reason you still
> find the most heavily attended events to be "Fun-Fly's". When it
> gets too serious there are a lot of guys that start to feel
> threatened regarding their status within the group structure and
> when the pressure becomes, in their estimation, greater than feels
> comfortable to them, they gravitate to a different venue that
> restores the level of comfort they deem appropriate.
> The same thing seems to happen, in my judgement, with schedule
> complexity.Some of us realize that if the schedules become more and
> more complex, at some point the difficulty factor will become
> significant enough to threaten our currently hard won achievement
> status, and indeed this is true.The decision that probably needs to
> be reasoned through is,in light of this truth, should the pursuit of
> excellence be sacrificed to satisfy the inadequacies of those of us
> who are clammoring to maintain their elevation?
> I consider myself a part of this equation and recognize my own
> inadequacies, however I also realize that this same pursuit of
> excellence will not be enhanced by any concession to tilt the
> playing field in my favor. Noone will be served by that tack. Least
> of all ME! My flying prowess ranks somewhere between Sportsman and
> Intermediate(my assessment), and though I find a couple of the FAI
> maneuvers really tough to execute in a graceful manner, I still feel
> that there is no maneuver that I could not learn to do and given
> another 50 years of practice I might even be in a position to
> challenge Jason.
> It's about STRIVING guys. That's what COMPETITION is! And it's
> purpose is to determine the most skilled individual, with the rest
> of us rated in descending order beneath the rating of the BEST! So,
> as you can see, I'm not in favor of wussing out to make things
> easier for anybody who finds their position at the pinnacle
> precarious(and that includes ME).
> Now, all that being said, I do feel that we may have a void at the
> bottom and should probably go back again and reconsider a pre-novice
> class for the guy who has only been involved in the sport for 2
> weeks and has never practiced flying a straight line.This shouldn't
> take much additional time as the number of guys showing up to
> participate in this class will indeed be very few (which begs the
> question, how far do we have to concede in order to grow the
> ranks?).
> The Sportsman sequence I proposed a couple of days ago DOES appear
> to be too difficult for some of the respondants(but not all) and
> maybe the old Novice schedule should be made available for anybody
> showing up to try (as a pre-novice event).I also think that the
> Intermediate should introduce it's participant to the 45 downline
> snap or at least a center snap on a horizontal baseline as
> preparation for Advanced.
> Only a bunch of opinions, guys! Don't mean I'm right!
> G.
>
>
>
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