adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and

Sun Jan 9 18:51:40 AKST 2005

I can't believe what I'm reading! 

I just moved into Advanced and can CLEARLY remember my impression of each pattern I've faced starting with Sportsman. As I stated in an earlier thread I think Sportsman is an excellent entry into flying pattern, I wouldn't change a thing in the difficulty but would make it a bit longer. I think the idea of removing the turnaround is completely off the mark and I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that outside of those who long for the "good old days".  In my opinion the turn-around was probably one of the best things that ever happened to pattern. No I wasn't around then, but can't imagine how boring it would be without turnaround maneuvers.

I moved up to Intermediate after about six months of flying the Sportsman pattern, this included two Sportsman contests. I knew I would not do well in my first season of Intermediate, but I wanted the challenge and wanted to fly a longer pattern. I've always felt that you don't improve unless you challenge yourself. I can honestly say that I think the step up from Sportsman to Intermediate was perfect with one exception, Intermediate needs a snap maneuver (more on that later). I never felt I was over my head and was going to crash (other than that one sun induced scare on the two rolls). Yes the two rolls did make me nervous, but like others I cheated by raising the nose until I got comfortable with it. And THANK GOODNESS for that outside loop! I didn't realize it at the time but that outside maneuver was training my thumbs for all the pushes in Advanced. The outside was probably the hardest thing for me to get good and it did take some work, but I never felt in danger, it was just tough keeping it straight and round. 

Now I've moved to Advanced. The Advanced pattern is intimidating initially, especially the full roll at the bottom of the double Immleman, but once you fly the pattern a few times you find its really not that difficult, especially if you've mastered Intermediate. The only thing about Advanced that I think is tough is the fact that I had to go directly into doing two negative snaps and hadn't done any snaps in Intermediate. If Intermediate had a positive snap (like the original 45 deg.) then I would be much more prepared for the snaps in Advanced. As to the snaps being too difficult in Intermediate, I don't think this is the case because when I first started flying Intermediate I practiced it with the 45 deg snap because I heard it may come back. After that rumor was squashed I stopped practicing it.

So what about Masters? Yes, I'm a bit concerned that if Masters continues to get more and more difficult the jump from Advanced will be difficult, however, I've seen others move from Advanced to Masters or practice the Masters sequence in their second year of Advanced and none of them have crashed yet! Actually, they seem to do fine, not beautiful, but OK. So I'm sure once I have a couple of years of Advanced under my belt I'll be able to make the change just fine.

OK, but maybe that's because I've been flying all my life... Nope, I started flying RC in 82 and flew through 83 where I progressed all the way to a Sweet Stick. Stopped flying in 83 then got back into RC 16 years later around 99 or 2000, then after a year of flying electric and an UltraStick I started Sportsman. Not all that much experience!

Keith Black

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bill Pritchett 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:51 AM
  Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and

  All:
  Considering the quality of flying we have witnessed in Sportsman, maybe we should add "Novice" to the progression in front of Sportsman.
  Pritch
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Keith Hoard 
    To: discussion at nsrca.org 
    Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:22 PM
    Subject: RE: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and

    Get rid of the turnarounds in Sportsman. . . . . 

    Keith L. Hoard

    Cordova, TN

    khoard at midsouth.rr.com

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    From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Tim Taylor
    Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:17 AM
    To: discussion at nsrca.org
    Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and

    I agree with you Bob 100% well said.

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Bob Pastorello 

      To: discussion at nsrca.org 

      Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 5:37 AM

      Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and 

      And this issue is EXACTLY why the "progression of classes" needs to be managed, and (caps by intent)

      WE MUST STOP ESCALATING THE OVERALL COMPLEXITY OF SEQUENCES TO KEEP UP WITH CHANGES IN FAI !!!!!  The "trickle down" of FAI difficulty drives Masters.  Then that drives Advanced, then it drives Intermediate changes, and finally Sportsman, where we lose potential entrants because it overwhelms them.

      There are people who monitor this list who I have been coaching.  If they chime in, they will tell you of the difficulty in "finesse" needed to be really competent NOW in Sportsman, and even moreso when they moved to Intermediate.

          I am NOT one of those "disconnected" Masters pilot guys.....I "know" what's going on in other classes, and we better address it as a society.  Soon.

      As a rule-proposing body, the NSRCA has the responsibility, as a society, to Stop the Madness.

          Masters does NOT have to be "nearly FAI".  Obvious reason;  someone wants that complexity, let 'em FLY FAI.

          Advanced would not be such a huge jump from Intermediate IF it wasn't the stepping stone to a less-complex Masters.

          Intermediate would not have to be so tough of a jump from Sportsman.

      Changing our very philosophy of the game is what it will take, men.  You may disagree, but you cannot deny what pitifully-small data points we have paint a picture of the "graying" of the game.

          Yes - there are LOTS of reasons we don't have the 'seed pipe' we used to (competing RC venues, time, money, etc.), but my point is, and HAS BEEN, that we do NOT HAVE TO MAKE THE GAME *HARDER* to make it challenging for Masters' pilots!!!!

      Bob Pastorello
      NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
      rcaerobob at cox.net
      www.rcaerobats.net

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Rcmaster199 at aol.com 

        To: discussion at nsrca.org 

        Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 1:23 AM

        Subject: Re: adding interest and complexity to Sportsman ... again and again and 

        Sportsman needs to be maintained as the entry class to Pattern events and overcomplicating it will not be a step in the right direction. I feel same as Steve that it's about right in complexity. I would add that it should remain unchanged for a consiiderable amount of time (pick a period--10 years is a nice round number)

        Rationale for long time period before changes (if ever): Pilots seldom stay in the class more than two years so the ones that move on, see a fresh schedule regardless. The ones that drop, well, it makes little difference to them. It would serve virtually no purpose to change this schedule

        Rationale for keeping the sequence "simple": A friend of mine has tried to get into pattern competition for a couple years now. He is a very good sport flier, can 3D his 1/3 scale aerobats just fine and knows some construction technique, engine maintenance and radio diagnostics already.

        But the demands of pattern planes are different and he has had to overcome several issues.  After a couple of years of frustration and perseverence, he has started to practice in earnest. He has commented to me how difficult the "simple" Sportsman schedule is. I admire his perseverence; most would have quit.

        Point is, many Sportsmen face alot issues with fundamentals that the other classes have learned to overcome. Their learning curve is vertical already. Lets leave the complicated stuff for the higher classes. The Sportsmen who move on, will see that soon enough.

        MattK 

        In a message dated 1/9/2005 12:29:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, rcsteve at tcrcm.org writes:

          I have to agree with John here.  I'm concerned that we keep making the entry-level class too hard for the real newbie that we are trying to hook.

          I flew my first contest 7 months after solo. This was back in about 1997 or so.  The individual manuevers were no easier, but you got to go out of the box pretty frequently and get lined back up. For someone that isn't that skilled (people we need to bring into the entry ranks to fill the pipe), after a couple maneuvers, they get behind the airplane and are going into the next maneuver in trouble. Leaving the box gave us the opportunity to calm down and get straightened out.

          If your skills were better than that, start in Intermediate. Same message today to those that think Sportsman is too  easy.  It should be really easy!

          Sportsman should be constructed so that regular club sport flyers can come taste pattern with little or no practice when the local club holds a meet with their 4 star 40's and Tiger 60's.

          This year, I tried to bring a couple of our yearling's into our local contest.  They just couldn't handle the continuity of it all, and both gave up. Oh we could be elitist and say they should have practiced more and got better airplanes, but is that really going to seed the pipe?

          Maybe what we need is another (non-rated?) entry class?  Fun-pattern class or something?

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