AMA MASTER'S unknown?

[Ron Van Putte]

On Jan 7, 2005, at 2:14 PM, Earl Haury wrote:

> Hmmm - actually the old D-Novice flew FAI schedules (similar to 
> Masters) and D-Expert flew the same schedules but was the F3A class of 
> the day. Interestingly, C-Novice and C-Expert were parallel AMA 
> classes - but were rarely flown due to the touch & go in the 
> schedules. F3A was the "favorite" schedule back then - same story - 
> different preferences. BTW, the B class (similar to advanced) got to 
> do the touch & go - lots of fun with retracts and wood props.

Ah yes, I remember it well.  As I recall, the Touch and Go was the 
first maneuver after Takeoff and was often the last maneuver, when it 
became a Touch and Stay, after the prop hit the runway and/or the 
retracts failed.

Ron Van Putte

> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Tim Taylor
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:38 PM
> Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?
>
> Since FAI turn around was started we've geared our entire sport in the 
> USA to mimic it and it's been driven by FAI ever since . 
> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Dean Pappas
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 1:05 PM
> Subject: RE: AMA MASTER'S unknown?
>
> Thanks Gene,
> As I mentioned before: we have, as a culture, a tendency to keep 
> making each skill level harder or more interesting until it breaks, 
> then we fix it and start over again. Maybe you have to have been in 
> the event for ever to see it, but I think you have put your finger 
> right on what Masters ought to be.
>  
> Anybody out there remember old D-Novice?
> Dean Pappas
>  
>
> Dean Pappas
> Sr. Design Engineer
> Kodeos Communications
> 111 Corporate Blvd.
> South Plainfield, N.J. 07080
> (908) 222-7817 phone
> (908) 222-2392 fax
> d.pappas at kodeos.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discussion-request at nsrca.org 
> [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of 
> gene.maurice at comcast.net
> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 12:49 PM
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?
>
>
> To Whom It May Concern:
>
> I am a Masters flier and I DON'T want to fly FAI or FAI like 
> sequences. For me personally, Masters is a destination. If I wanted to 
> fly finals and unknowns, then I would fly FAI. I fly Masters and will 
> stay in Masters because I don't want to, nor can I for that matter, 
> effectively fly the FAI sequences. If people want more challenge than 
> Masters affords, I would respectfully suggest that they consider 
> flying FAI. Again, for me personally, the difficulty of the current 
> and prior Masters sequences are all that I can handle, and even then 
> I'm a perennial bottom feeder. Why in the world do we need two classes 
> that are for all intents and purposes equal? 
>
>  
>
> I believe there is a fair contingent of fliers who are like me: good 
> enough to fly their current class without embarrassing themselves, not 
> good enough to ever win, their lives only allow a minimal amount of 
> practice, but continue to do this because IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!!!!. 
> Why must we continually tinker with Masters. Don’t get me wrong, I 
> like the periodic change in the schedules. I don’t even mind the ever 
> increasing difficulty, even though it has made me even LESS 
> competitive. Again, I submit, if you are not sufficiently challenged 
> by Masters, FLY FAI!!!
>   
>  
>  
> --
> Gene Maurice
>  gene.maurice at comcast.net
>  Plano, TX
>  
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>  Bob:
>
> I am not taking any sides here either, as I don't fly Masters.  
> However, If Masters is to be an ending class paralleling FAI, then 
> perhaps either a finals sequence, or a finals and unknown are 
> appropriate.  This puts it on the same level as FAI which is what many 
> have told me they thought Masters should be.  This will give the same 
> level of difficulty as FAI, but with all the associated rules and 
> sequences totally controlled by the USA. 
>   
> Having been USA Team Manager 4 times, I totally agree that the caller 
> becomes an integral part of a successful pilot, especially in the 
> unknowns.  Having a known finals sequence is less demanding on the 
> caller, but requires the Masters pilot to learn a second, much more 
> difficult sequence. 
>   
> Keep in mind that this would only effect the NATS.  I would push for a 
> rule that makes flying the finals sequence at a local contest 
> illegal!  This is the way it is in FAI as well.  Finals and unknowns 
> are only flown at National and International competitions.  This keeps 
> everyone who has no interest in flying at a Nationals from having to 
> learn anything other than the Masters pattern. 
>   
> A poll would be interesting, but I would only allow those that have 
> flown at the last couple of NATS to be involved, pushing the rule that 
> any extra sequences would only be flown at the NATS finals. 
>   
> Anyway, my $0.02...
>  
> Tony Stillman
> Radio South
> 3702 N. Pace Blvd.
> Pensacola, FL 32505
> 1-800-962-7802
> www.radiosouthrc.com
> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Bob Pastorello
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 5:39 PM
> Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?
>
> I guess since I never take a position on anything, I should probably 
> do so on this -- so -- here 'tis.
>  
> 1.  This is a genuine yes/no POLL question of the MASTERS pilots 
> only....and needs to be carefully administered, IF the Board is 
> interested in opening this one.
> 2.  If the POLL has at least 2/3 majority, then the next question 
> should be designed to find out how crazy we (Masters) pilots are about 
> having our scores judged by JUDGES WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SEQUENCE  
> and
>  3.  How crazy we are about the 
> totally-impossible-to-fairly-administer influence of the "team".  At 
> this level of competitions (you guys are talking about the NATS 
> FINALS, for G---s sake!!!) I would be hard pressed to say it will be 
> "fair" to have the outcome determined by who had the best caller (or 
> the most effective team).  Not everyone can do that...  and finally 
> ....
> 4.  MASTERS is supposed to be the Top AMA class....as such, 
> philosophically, I think it should be the best - the VERY best - of 
> precision, smoothness, and gracefulness....
>  
> AND implementing an Unknown turns all that back into "IMPRESSION" 
> judging....
>  
> I'm not in favor of it;  won't be; won't try to persuade others to be; 
> and believe wholeheartedly that if a pilot is strongly committed to 
> flying Unknowns that he go play IMAC.  Then fly "Pattern" for 
> precision, practiced, smooth and skillfully-executed "routines".
>
> Bob Pastorello
> NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
> rcaerobob at cox.net
> www.rcaerobats.net
>  
>  
> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Ed Deaver
> To: discussion at nsrca.org
> Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 3:54 PM
> Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?
>
> Flying an Unknown truely does make it a 2 person flight.  I would 
> still welcome the opportunity as the challange and thrill(flying well 
> or goofing up and trying to collect yourself to fly the next manuever) 
> is really great. 
>   
> I don't know if it really identifies the callers ability, as much as 
> the teams ability.  Another thought depends on how much time is 
> allowed to prepare also.
>  
> ed
>
> rcaerobob at cox.net wrote:
> Before I'd answer whether I wanted one or not, I'd like to have an 
> understanding of what, specifically, the unknown in Masters would 
> "reveal". If pattern is about precision piloting that could be a 
> different thing than an ability to have a good caller....
>
> Just my ignorant opinion.
>
> Bob P.
> >
>  > From: "Grow Pattern"
>  > Date: 2005/01/06 Thu AM 11:25:48 EST
> > To: ,
>  >
>  > Subject: AMA MASTER'S unknown?
> >
>  > How does this list feel about a Masters Nat's final that was 
> different to
>  > the regular schedule. OR, even an unknown in the final to make it 
> more than
>  > just three more of the same flown in the heats.
> >
>  > Regards,
> >
>  > Eric.
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