AMA MASTER'S unknown?

[Grow Pattern]

Verne,
           God perspectives - Thank you.

Eric.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Verne Koester 
  To: discussion at nsrca.org 
  Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 8:27 PM
  Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?


  Eric,
  Well, okay, you pulled me out of the shadows. I'm dead set against an unknown in the finals for a variety of reason. Bob Pastorello just rattled off a bunch of them in another post so I'll try not to repeat those. Most Masters pilots could do a credible job in FAI with practice. This is not to say that a Masters finalist would likely be an FAI finalist because I don't think they would. By the same token, I don't think we'd be at the bottom of the heap, either. However, the one common thread I hear again and again among Masters pilots is a lack of the time required to become competitive with two separate schedules. In addition, there's a couple of big differences between flying the finals and flying the prelims. In no particular order, the judging is more consistent, there's no distraction from midair close calls, there's more pressure and so on. Combined, these things can both help and hurt the contestant with the main effect being that flying in the finals is very different than flying in the prelims. Leave the unknowns and/or finals schedules for those pilots that choose to fly in that environment and that environment is FAI. I don't see any benefit in tinkering with something that's not broken. If anything, it'll prevent those that don't have the preparation time from showing up in the first place.

  Verne Koester


    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Grow Pattern 
    To: discussion at nsrca.org 
    Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 7:00 PM
    Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?


    Archie,
                 I am particularly interested in what you say because as a person who actually attends the Nat's, you are therefore well positioned  to have and entertain new ideas. As a person who makes it to the finals you are both experiential and a potential who would fly this stuff. You are more than just a theorist. How do other ex-finalist think?

    The subject heading says unknowns not impossibles....The maneuvers would not (be intended to) be more difficult. Just stringing them together would be difficult to sort the finalists out...

    Regards,

    Eric.
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Archie Stafford 
      To: discussion at nsrca.org 
      Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:47 PM
      Subject: RE: AMA MASTER'S unknown?


      I think you can fly unknowns and also make them very precise and smooth.  Look at the FAI finals.  Other than the roller I think the sequence flowed very well and the top pilots made it look like they had been flying it for a long time.  Even if you used past sequences or rearranged the current sequence.  

       

      I do not think this makes it a "team" event with the caller.  Most pilots have the callers they generally use and that person usually knows when the person they are calling for likes to hear the next maneuver.  Also if you use maneuvers that have been previously used or maneuvers that are reasonably well known then you shouldn't have a judging problem.  If this is going to be used at the NATS finals, then the judging is usually reasonably good anyway.  I'm sure there will be varying opinions on that, but for the most part judging in the finals is overall very good.  

       

      The better pilots are going to make an unknown sequence look smooth and precise no matter how many times they have flown it.  I think unknowns definitely help you determine who the best pilot is.  

       


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      From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org] On Behalf Of Bob Pastorello
      Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 6:40 PM
      To: discussion at nsrca.org
      Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?

       

      I guess since I never take a position on anything, I should probably do so on this -- so -- here 'tis.

       

      1.  This is a genuine yes/no POLL question of the MASTERS pilots only....and needs to be carefully administered, IF the Board is interested in opening this one.

      2.  If the POLL has at least 2/3 majority, then the next question should be designed to find out how crazy we (Masters) pilots are about having our scores judged by JUDGES WHO HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SEQUENCE  and 

      3.  How crazy we are about the totally-impossible-to-fairly-administer influence of the "team".  At this level of competitions (you guys are talking about the NATS FINALS, for G---s sake!!!) I would be hard pressed to say it will be "fair" to have the outcome determined by who had the best caller (or the most effective team).  Not everyone can do that...  and finally ....

      4.  MASTERS is supposed to be the Top AMA class....as such, philosophically, I think it should be the best - the VERY best - of precision, smoothness, and gracefulness....

       

      AND implementing an Unknown turns all that back into "IMPRESSION" judging....

       

      I'm not in favor of it;  won't be; won't try to persuade others to be; and believe wholeheartedly that if a pilot is strongly committed to flying Unknowns that he go play IMAC.  Then fly "Pattern" for precision, practiced, smooth and skillfully-executed "routines".


      Bob Pastorello
      NSRCA 199  AMA 46373
      rcaerobob at cox.net
      www.rcaerobats.net

       

       

        ----- Original Message ----- 

        From: Ed Deaver 

        To: discussion at nsrca.org 

        Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2005 3:54 PM

        Subject: Re: AMA MASTER'S unknown?

         

        Flying an Unknown truely does make it a 2 person flight.  I would still welcome the opportunity as the challange and thrill(flying well or goofing up and trying to collect yourself to fly the next manuever) is really great.  

         

        I don't know if it really identifies the callers ability, as much as the teams ability.  Another thought depends on how much time is allowed to prepare also.

         

        ed

        rcaerobob at cox.net wrote:

          Before I'd answer whether I wanted one or not, I'd like to have an understanding of what, specifically, the unknown in Masters would "reveal". If pattern is about precision piloting that could be a different thing than an ability to have a good caller....

          Just my ignorant opinion.

          Bob P.
          > 
          > From: "Grow Pattern" 
          > Date: 2005/01/06 Thu AM 11:25:48 EST
          > To: , 
          > 
          > Subject: AMA MASTER'S unknown?
          > 
          > How does this list feel about a Masters Nat's final that was different to 
          > the regular schedule. OR, even an unknown in the final to make it more than 
          > just three more of the same flown in the heats.
          > 
          > Regards,
          > 
          > Eric.
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