DEPS (was RE: MK Dual Elavator)
Scott Smith
js.smith at verizon.net
Sun Feb 6 03:53:30 AKST 2005
Success...
I sanded about .004 off the rods starting with 320 and finishing with 600
wet. They really finish quite smooth compared to the unworked section. I
was careful not to sand the last five inches that will exit the tail and
accept the rod end.
I then filled the support tubes with graphite lube using a piece fuel tubing
between the bottle and support...no mess. The rods now move a lot eaiser.
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org [mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On
Behalf Of Troy A. Newman
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:02 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: [SPAM] Re: DEPS (was RE: MK Dual Elavator)
Tom,
Have not seen this. Check out antenna tubes as Ken Blackwell stated. I
think these may work for you. I would get the ones with the larger inside
hole diameter.
Maybe some of the plastic tubes has a less accurate inside diameter or the
tolerance is a slightly different. The rods should slide in the tubes while
not attached to anything with no friction...If hey don't then there is
something wrong.
Troy
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hinton
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: DEPS (was RE: MK Dual Elavator)
I put the system in my Temptation. I was lucky in the fact that I had 2
sets of tubes at the time. One tube from each set was tight or would bind.
So I used one from each set on the Temp and it is slick but, I don't know
what to do with the other 2. I have a set of rods to use on another plane
but unless I get some "good" tubes there is no need. Anyone else seem this?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Hester
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: DEPS (was RE: MK Dual Elavator)
HAHAHA....."roaches"...... =)
Anyway, I'm trying this system out myself in my new roach. I installed
it like you, when the fuse was still a box, and it did take a lot of
tweaking and fussing to get the friction to a level of "acceptable". But for
the way this fuse is made, it just seems like it could be the best way to
go.
So, I'm wondering about lubricant of some kind. Dry graphite type does
sound good, and I am wondering about silicone spray....I'm not sure about
the compatibility of this stuff. It's straight silicone, but would it gum up
or react with the graphite? I should know this, but I only use the stuff for
lubricating the slides on cable/free weight machines. It works liek a charm
for that, but I'd hate to screw up this plane.
Anybody know for sure? I know somebody does...
-Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Smith
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 4:35 PM
Subject: DEPS (was RE: MK Dual Elavator)
DEPS is hands down the best elevator system in my opinion. Also, I
would like to thank Troy for all his efforts in getting out a very nice,
complete setup. However, I think it can be made better with the Teflon
sleeves.
I'm doing two Central installs in a couple Patriot roaches and I'm a
little disappointed with both installs. Neither are as friction free as
last year's CST kit.
I had the luxury of installing these while the fuse was still an
open box. My support sleeves are about 21" long and I'd say you could
measure the bend at the halfway point at less than a 1/4". The push rods
hit the center of the MK arms on the elevator (I haven't cut them to length
yet.) For all practical purposes, they are straight and dead on to the
horn.
Yet there seems to be a lot of friction that needs to be overcome to
move the assembly. Once moving, it moves easily. As such, I'm concerned
about centering.
I was happy to see the graphite has worked for others and it may be
just the ticket.
-----Original Message-----
From: discussion-request at nsrca.org
[mailto:discussion-request at nsrca.org]On Behalf Of Troy A. Newman
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 3:32 PM
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Subject: Re: MK Dual Elavator Bellcrank & Pushrod?
Brian,
sorry to hear you had some trouble with the guides on the DEPS.
We worked pretty hard on getting the system to be easy to install and
friction free. You are correct that any bending or curving in the system
will cause it to bind up as stated in the instructions for the DEPS. The
Teflon sleeves have their own problems and what was happening is guys would
wind the thread too tight on the Teflon sleeve and crush it. This would
cause friction points along the length of the Teflon guide even it was dead
straight. So the hard plastic guide kept this from occurring.
The key to both system is getting the pushrods at a straight shot
to the control horns. NO bends no curves. If you install it this way it will
be friction free. The right fuse exit location is so very important. I use a
4ft long straight edge to connect the dots from the servo connection
location to the elevator control horn. I do this on both the side of fuse
For the vertical location and angle and then the belly of the fuse for the
fore and aft exit location. I use masking tape and project the lines to
where I need to dremel the slot.
This exit location will be very different depending on the
location of the elevator servo up front and will also depend on the width of
the fuse at the tail and where the elevator control horns are. So you need
to have both mounted so you can align the rods to pass right by the
connection points. No bending them over to it.
A rough idea is my Supremes' have the exits about 10.5" forward of
the elevator hinge line. A narrow fuse like a Focus of Temptation this exit
will be slightly back further. The key is getting the slots in the right
spot so it doesn't bend.
NOW some solutions I have heard of and never tried. Take the
pushrods and slightly sand them with some 320 grit. "roll" the rod in your
fingers....The ideal is not to sand diameter down but sometimes the pushrods
can have some ridges on them from manufacturer. I think they are Pultruded
(sp?) and this can cause some slight imperfections in the surface but I'm
not sure. I have seen a few of these with the CST rods. Never caused me
any problems but I can see if the guides are curving it could.
Next a little messy perhaps at first...Graphite dry lube like pine
wood derby wheel lube works pretty good. Squirt a little in the tubes and
the then install the pushrods. I heard of a guy doing this and he said it
made all the difference. If you have to remove a glue joint on your pushrods
to get it apart just heat the metal fitting up with a solder iron or a Bic
lighter the glue will soften and you can remove the fitting. A little sand
paper on the end where the glue was and the pushrod system will come right
out of the guides from the front. Then deal with the guides and glue the
ends back on. I recommend clean the old glue out of the hole. I use a
drill...but be careful the titanium ends are very tough and you can break
off a drill bit if you are trying to remove metal. I then use rubbing
alcohol to clean it. Dry with a bic lighter and then glue it on again. Works
fine.
Next is sometimes you can get paint and crud in the tubes at the
exits and this will cause some binding. Clean out the exit tube with a small
round file....I have even used a long 2-56 pushrod threaded on one end to
plunger the tubes and clear some debris. I even saw one where the guy used
some Thin CA to attach something and it ran down the CF rod and into the
sleeves. It didn't glue it in place but it did cause quite a bit of binding.
I have not heard of guys having problems. Usually all you hear
form this list and RCU is the bad stuff and rarely does the good comes
through. I get tons of emails from guys that love it. I wondering if you try
some of the fixes above and they solve your issue. I just installed this
system on friends Angel Shadow and it works great! By the way Exits on it
were about 11" forward of the elevator hinge line and they are a straight
shot servo to the control horns.
As for weight I just stuck the plastic tube guides on a scale and
the Teflon guides as I have both. The Teflon one 4ft long was 6grams The
Plastic one 40" long was 5grams....
The 0.070" solid CF rods can't run unsupported for the length of
the fuse. They will bow up when put under load. But inside the guides they
are stiffer and more solid than any system I have ever seen or flown. This
includes cables, MK, Dave Brown Fiberglass arrow shaft( the black one is
fiberglass and not CF) And the CF rods done like the Dave brown fork with a
bushing support in the back. and supports in the middle too. The elevators
get no differential between sides when under load and many of the other
system do. This was the whole reason for using the DEPS system. Eliminate
differential side to side and have a friction free slop free system that was
light.
Troy
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Billings
To: discussion at nsrca.org
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: MK Dual Elavator Bellcrank & Pushrod?
Speaking of the CF push rod set ups, I would like to share a
little info. I just finished installing my second CF. elev. pushrod assem.
in a Impact, the first was in my Majestic. In the Majestic I got the DEPS
setup from CST seen here http://www.cstsales.com/CCPush-rodKits.htm
This kit comes with a thin walled Teflon outer case and even
with a slight bow or arc in the assem. the system remains Very friction
free.
For the Impact I purchased the kit from Central and it comes
with plastic outer cases and these were difficult to get smooth and friction
free, the slightest bend or arc made the movement very stiff and as a matter
of fact, I could not even use them and ended up using hollow CF. rod for the
outer case which worked very well but slight bends or arcs are out of the
question. Just my personal experience, yours may differ.
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